Fear of abandonment issues usually follows traumatic events such as the death of a loved one, divorce or other painful loss. We may engage in unhealthy behavior in an attempt to protect ourselves from experiencing the awful pain and suffering again. This may manifest as codependency, inability to trust, sabotage behavior and more. These prevent us from experiencing peace and actualizing healthy, loving relationships. In this episode Marcel Pope and Cynthia Cintron, co-hosts and life partners discuss Lesson 5 from A Course in Miracles: Let Miracles Replace All Grievances and explore how it helped them recognize and work through their own fear of abandonment. They share moments from their own lives, laugh and sometimes cry in hopes that their experiences and exploration will help others.
Fear of abandonment issues usually follows traumatic events such as the death of a loved one, divorce or other painful loss. We may engage in unhealthy behavior in an attempt to protect ourselves from experiencing the awful pain and suffering again. This may manifest as codependency, inability to trust, sabotage behavior and more. These prevent us from experiencing peace and actualizing healthy, loving relationships. In this episode Marcel Pope and Cynthia Cintron, co-hosts and life partners discuss Lesson 5 from A Course in Miracles: Let Miracles Replace All Grievances and explore how it helped them recognize and work through their own fear of abandonment. They share moments from their own lives, laugh and sometimes cry in hopes that their experiences and exploration will help others.
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Welcome everyone. I'm your co-host Cynthia Cintron here with Marcel Pope. And today we'll be talking about loss and abandonment. Correct Marcel. Tell us about what you read today. And what what we're talking about you yes a kind of off the top from A Course in Miracles, which is a course that I have been studying now for a couple years to try to help me with my personal growth and development and is helping me.
You figure out why I come from a place of fear many times in this life and how it controls me and I no longer want to be controlled by fear. I feel like I've gotten a control of a lot of them, but there's still some are still works in progress. So the particular lesson is titled, let Miracles replace all grievances. So what our grievances well grievances are things that happen to us and then we
We re have a little we have anger and it's reproject that outward and I'll relate it to a dog. If your first experience with a dog is it comes up and it's wagging its tail and it starts licking you and you pet it and it's all sweet and that's wonderful. And the next time you see a dog you like. Oh, this is great, and I got another dog. But if your first experiences you're walking and a dog rushes towards you and mangles you.
Every dog you see from now on that fear is going to be in you and you project that now that's an extreme. You know what I think to be a good example. It's an excellent example, so but then so the question is, okay, that one's easy to identify. But what about other fears? So just in a nutshell, there are actually only six basic fears in life and all the top. The number one for most people's fear of death fear of losing your life. And then the
Fear of losing your mind. Yeah. Yeah fear of losing your help fear of ill health because ill-health can lead to death and then there's fear of loss of love, you know, a lot of times we go through life fearing that we're not going to find love and then once we feel we do then we are afraid of losing it so then fear of poverty which is fear of losing money then fear of and to me this is one of the worst fears of all is fear of criticism.
Because what is that why people don't like speaking in public? That's exactly right because inevitably we build a self-image a representative of who we want everyone to see and so anytime there's any criticism to that that means I don't accept what you're presenting here and they're criticized. So if your criticism destroys people, yeah and it brings up that feeling of not good enough exactly. So so in this lesson, it really talks about the roles we assigned to people
To make us feel better about our fears and this dovetails into relationships which you and I will obviously want to talk about but so at some point I think most people have heard you repeat lessons and life until you learn them and then I personally have gone through quote the same relationship just a different person I think until now until now and I'm thinking what's the common denominator here, it's me.
I must be the problem, right? Okay. So now we're going to talk about my problems in relationships. That's it. So fear and abandonment or like twin sisters twin brothers were one has found the others sure to follow and I guess one of the biggest ones is when I look at he one of the biggest losses of my personal life were two of my brother's one was murdered and the other died of brain cancer one wasn't even 50. The other one was barely 50.
So just a quick quick note on the fears that I had planted inside after my oldest brother had gotten murdered in 2005. We were preparing his funeral arrangements and I was sitting in one spot. My brother was sitting to my right my brother Sean who had passed away brain cancer and then to the right of him as my father. My father was distraught that his oldest son. Yo got murdered and he's sitting there munching on chips kind of in a daze when my brother and I were preparing his funeral arrangements and Shawn was your back.
Best friend Shawn was we were we were soul mates as quote. We were really so amazing don't confuse that with just people of the opposite sex. He was my brother and we were even there were four years. It's been we were Kindred Spirits. I mean, I could start a sentence he could finish it because we had gone through so much so much strife and life together. We were four years apart on the youngest. He was next to the youngest and so but here's what I wanted to relate this to this topic of loss and fear of loss as
And the funeral arrangements still a little a little bit of sadness there and it only comes up I guess when I don't know it's hasn't come up in a while, but my right hand my brother had his left hand and were clutching sitting there making the funeral arrangements for my for my oldest brother Mark and we got all that done and years had passed and my brother and I would talk frequently that I don't know if I could have handled that if you were and there.
You know and he's like me either man Mitch no way because everyone relied on me and him and our family to take care of everything and prior to that though. My brother Sean. He had almost choked to death on a piece of shrimp. Never forget run a restaurant. We were trying to do the heimlich and the fear in his eyes. We I thought oh my gosh, but their fear of criticism, we don't want to make a scene in the restaurant but here he is going to possibly die. So so I
You're thinking oh my God. What if something would happen? What would I do? You know? He's like I couldn't stand losing him. There was a fear of loss there so fast forward, you know on Brothers murdered then Sean. He was diagnosed with brain cancer and then he died and I'm like, oh my God, so so the loss hit and so don't want to Veer off too far, but I remember it hit me so hard I broke down I really stumbled in the kitchen and the
I was with at the time I I'm upset I'm crying is and the person says I've never seen you get that upset about me and I thought so I couldn't even release what I was feeling and that relationship ended and I thought okay, so dovetails back into why we're doing this podcast. I've always believed that everything we really need is within us but how do we access it? So that was a blessing that the person I was with said that because it forced me in were to find
And what I needed inside of me and not rely on someone else because even if we do like my brother relied on him now, he's gone. I can't rely on him for those things. So fine self-reliance within yeah, and there's a difference between wanting and needing we're human beings. We are made to be in relationship. There's a difference between codependency and being in a relationship and a healthy way where you are each individual's and then you connect and I
I remember you talking about that relationship saying that your partner really was focused on the two of you being one there almost wasn't your partner didn't want separation between the two of you and it kept you from being your own person exactly. And so and so you and I had talked about that. So there's three types of relationships codependent relationship with is not healthy and then it completely independent relationship which isn't healthy.
Either it's interdependent relationship you and I had an agreement on that. It's like we're two trees growing but we're growing together and we can lean on each other if we need to but we can survive without each other if we had to write so it's a constant. Yeah. So in this relationship with your partner, what happened was that you were having a legitimate hurt and loss and abandonment was coming up and you felt that you were not able to
To experience and work through that on your own exactly because they were competing basically. Yeah, this person was competing with your dead brother, right? That's and and he and I just know when they're know when I had made the comment he was my best friend and the comment was made. Well, I should be your best friend. I'm like, it's not the same. I'm you're my best friend too. But he's my best friend in a different way. We you know, we grew up together. So we have a you know, do a deeper connection what we're supposed to have a deep connection, you know.
Like I mean, it's just really so anyway, so laughing the hits but it's crazy, but they are closed for your so the abandonment that was almost like yeah, he and you may have heard of this before someone dies. And the person that loses them is angry because they that person abandoned them through death, you know, they abandoned me and left me here to deal with this world on my own, you know, and it's so they're very close and even like I had that fear my father wasn't around a lot. So I kind of deep down fell he abandoned me and then he tried to
Come back around and kind of quote kidnapped me and a couple of my brother's the younger ones. We went to st. Petersburg supposed to be there for two weeks and up staying for a year. But then then I felt my mother had it because I remember crying when I was six years old or 11 years old crying my face in a pillow because I miss my mother but looking back it was a fear of Abandonment or I felt like I had been abandoned. So those feelings you carry through life and that's why I person and I can't I can't you and I are psychologists right? We're not therapists you and I are
Just we've always had a conversation about this stuff and we just want to come from a place of love and not fear. Yeah, and so and we're trying to bring awareness to people so that they can then go on their own journey to work through these things so that they can have a fulfilled life. So they're not leading with their sadness or their pain or their anger dumping their baggage and garbage into every relationship and wondering why the same relationship is happening over and over and over.
Over again because you're being is crying out to work these things out and the fear, it's funny. It's like a it's a circle right the fear of dealing with it makes you shove it down. Yeah, and then it keeps wanting to come out. It's almost like a like a teapot. Yeah. It's getting ready to boil. It's going to boil at some point and we both experienced that but let's I want to take us back to the lesson. So you were reading about Grievances and
Let's talk a little bit about the the spiritual nature. What what what you've learned and how you move through it as as a spiritual being. Yeah. So so throughout this Course in Miracles, which really is a course to help you get in touch with your internal teacher that's within all of us and it goes back to that Central thought of all we need is within us not
not without us. So the spiritual thread that weaves through all these lessons is ultimately we come from the same source of life as an eternal source of life that's forever. So if we're an extension of that life, then we endure forever. So ricotta quote we can be imprisoned in this body or enjoy it while we're here and experience the beauty of Life all the good and all the bad, but don't hang on to it and and
To believe when bad stuff happens losses fears come true where abandon we tend to cling on to that for whatever reason it's just human nature and we tend to want to protect ourselves, but we hold on to the thing. We're trying to get protection from so we mask it inevitably so that lesson bringing it back to your to your point where your question is. We assign roles to people in our lives and their role is to help us.
Not deal with our fear. So in that so the what we can project it onto that we can project it. But also that person's going to serve this role. For instance. You're in my life and your role is to not abandon me so I don't fear that pain again because if you do it's going to make that pain surface the idea is for the pain not to be there at all, but will be inevitably do so that's why the course is let Miracles replace all Grievances and grievances common the
I'm of someone left you someone divorced you someone died. Whatever it may be but it cause that pain in you you want to get rid of that fear of experiencing that pain again, and so what I did was I realized that I was holding on to all that so we had two different podcast where we talked about forgiveness and that to me was the ultimate you just forgive but we always need supporting details like humans need to understand. Why do I work and and so when you let that stuff go
You kind of let the fear go as well. So I'd mention the six different basic fears. So inevitably they all lead to pain and as long as you're coming from a place of fear, you can't love a hundred percent love in and of itself is what I've learned through the course needs nothing love ask for nothing love just is and then once you tap into that you just live it but the fear will be a barrier to that and you'll always come from a place of fear, which is what I've done unbeknownst.
It's to me that's why I'm trying to have a say I got it figured out trust me. I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out. So but so one of the things is to identify that fear and not project and not have someone fill that role to protect you from the fear that you have in you so and I guess the first thing then is to identify it. Is that what what you do when you're reading your course.
SRU you're looking you're reading that course. Yeah, you are connecting with those feelings. And what does the course then do for you to help you start to work through that those feelings of fear and event of Abandonment and loss inevitably in each lesson. What they do is that the course and the lesson entails taking just a couple minutes each day calm.
Mine and whatever comes up and it is it blew my mind it always whatever comes to your mind that lesson will help you deal with it and you know look through it because I've been through it for a whole year now and this is my second year of actually not missing any lessons. I'm going on two years running so and I'm like gosh I remember that last year so and it will the idea is to cleanse all the negative feelings you have in you all the fears and because it ultimately I don't
want you can't come from a place of fear and love and that's why we go up and down up and down with love are happy or sad and I'm tired of the roller coaster ride, man. So and then you know, of course, you're always I'm always dealing with things also still with the remainder of whatever is of my family, which is basically just my mom these days. So at any rate, that's the whole purpose is to let Miracles replace all grievances the course helps you become aware of what you're feeling and then you and then you delve in
Will your mind he's still your mind is quiet at that coming noise will come up to the top and then noise is what error, you know grievances you have and we don't realize why how we actually project roles on two people and you know past relationships. I've had this set of me before you mean if the person is talking to me, you ruined my life. You ruined my life and what I realized without saying as I had a row.
Role assigned to you, you're not living up to it. And now you're ruining my life. He cause what the course teach we build this world of perfection in our mind and that world. We build protects us prevents us from being a encountering pain and fear and we assign that world to people around us. And so if those people okay don't fulfill those expectations, it's your fault not theirs because you're ruining their quote World quote there.
Light their world in their head is there life when in reality with the course tries to teach you're focused on the wrong life. The life that you are is an extension of the eternal life and we're here experience in this life, but don't take these experiences to seriously. Really. I mean, we all are playing a role of so you don't I personally have been caught up playing a role for someone just totally and not even realizing what I was doing and then sometimes you feel a little sad and all of a sudden you can turn to loathing you're
Going why do I feel sad, you know, but then you as time to play the role again, you know because it's a daily thing. Well, it gives you a way to change the focus. So it's not on you. Yeah, there's two things that come from taking responsibility for your feelings you
Can say for example, I've done something that I'm not proud of ya.
If I don't want to take responsibility for it, I projected on you, right but the really what I need to do is take responsibility for the fact that I did it with people. I think and until I realized it what what came up for me was I also have the power to change. Yeah that feeling right. So I guess the reward for being humble and
Having the courage to take responsibility for your feelings is that you then have the ability to change them. So if you're feeling grief and loss and fear and sadness if you take the moment to own those feelings and work through them instead of projecting them onto somebody else. They're not going to fix them for right so not their job not their responsibility. So if you
Have the courage to take those and really except that it's your loss grief and and feeling then you can begin to work through it so you can get to the other side of it. Right? I know that that's been for me that's been my journey the things that have been the most painful in my life, you know getting to that place. I mean you struggle like put it on other people. I've cried. I've done all kinds of things which is fine. I mean feelings your future feelings. You should feel your feelings.
At a certain point though when you realize it's taking over your joy and your happiness. There's no joy and happiness because I'm so overwhelmed with all of this grief and misery over divorce over a loss over a broken friendship and we'll talk about that relationships. There comes a point where you're like, okay, I don't want to do this anymore. Right? And what is it you don't want to do you don't want to experience all those negative emotions just like at some point you get tired of Shame guilt.
Regret fear anxiety worry you just want to be happy come from a place of love. But as long as you're coming from a place of fear, and that's the blame or blaming blaming others absolutely yourself. That's right. You have to forgive right? Yes that you forgive yourself. It's all connected. It's very and so as you get older or more mature, some people are mature at a young age and some people don't had an old age. I mean, but everybody is on their own Journey. We're not supposed to criticize condemn or complain anybody. We're all on our own journey in that.
I think once we become more happy and more comfortable able to forgive and let go and absolve our fears rather than going out preaching it telling people you should like someone maybe who's who drinks and they want to stop it and then they stopped then they go out point or smokers. Oh, I you should quit smoking I did. I mean that's very condescending and and so kind of like I learned with you I forgave my brother's murderer. Who am I to tell you to tell you to forgive your parents, right? Let's say thank you for that lesson.
And my life so same thing here. Just trying to work it out. And then you live the truth, you live the happiness and then and then people and then people draw in and go. Hey, how did you do that? How did you overcome that? I know so well, it wasn't easy first of all, but the bottom line is becoming aware. So I just picked this one lesson out that actually wasn't the lesson of today. It's just the one that it was felt very apropos, you know, let Miracles replace all Grievances and and what was the
Mantra that you said for that day? I call it a mantra. I don't know what they call it in the book and that's it. Let yeah and so anything that comes up you say that and that that's the other interesting thing. You may not always understand it but just do it. It's almost like do you really understand how a car works and you get them started and you drive down the road? No, you just know how to use the car. Right and you just okay, you don't need to figure out the spark plugs and the gasoline and the hot all pistons and all that. You just say where do I put the key okay it so the lessons are kind of that way.
I let Miracles replace all Grievances and just just have it you have faith in that and then and then take a few minutes and focus on that and then whatever comes to your mind you want to if it's something negative. That's the grievance then you say let a miracle replace it and what could it be what your mind will send you the answers? Well, you know what wouldn't you rather have love or peace instead of this? So I why don't I have it so your mind goes to work on it. And so those are the shackles on our minds were trying to dissipate and that's what the
Stage is this not to be a called or me person who's helped me with finding the internal teacher and it's not there. It's not a new religion anything like that. It's just a course in in understanding yourself what's going on in you? And inevitably, you know, this is a there's many other books probably helped many other people get to the same place where I'm trying to get to yes completely different, but that's to me has been and I've read a lot and studied a lot. But for me, this is ringing true. Yeah.
Yeah, and for other people, it could be a therapist. It could be their Pastor, you know, whatever it is that really helps them to get and for me. I did a lot of course work and I did a lot of therapy and read a lot of books as well. But at the end of the day, whatever route someone takes to assist them because some of these things we also have to accept that some of these things are so big and they take over so much that we do need
I need an outside source to help us look within us. So whatever route the point really is to start taking responsibility and I don't say that in a negative way, but just say, you know, these are my feelings and I am I want to choose to move Beyond this so that I can have the life that I want exactly. So I and I think inevitably that's what we want. So I
I wants had put together a course called how to succeed at the toughest job in the world. And that's up for argument. Right? I mean, but by and large consensus whether the toughest jobs in the world were being a spouse or domestic partner or parent and those are the two toughest jobs, but arguably I had is now the toughest job in the world is your relationship with yourself because we never really want to face that and again, I've been in relationships where
I had all the issues she had none and we were always focused on mine but hers are never up for discussion because there weren't any to discuss so so I was constantly in this defense mode always in a defense mode. So I was trapped in that cycle and no time to think through all this, you know, and so now I mean thing when you step back, that's really the toughest job in the world is personal growth personal development of my favorite sayings is the
The toughest spiritual job in the world is Being Human and the toughest human job in the world is being spiritual as a constant vacillation and it's a duality of our minds part of our mind is physical and part of spiritual. So we Are Spiritual Beings in a physical world. I really believe that so and so we can't attach to this world too tightly. It's almost like this world is a movie passing by and we can't jump into a scene and stay there.
Are we going to let the scenes unfold which are the experiences great. Well, I think this is where we take a little pause because we're going to get ready to talk about relationships and loss and grievances will be right back.
And welcome back. I'm Cynthia Cintron and I'm here with my co-host and life partner Marcel Pope. Yeah, and we've been talking about love loss and grievances.
And I was listening to you talk about yourself and and the feelings that were coming up for you with the loss of your brother and how that affected your relationship and it was bringing up feelings for myself. I don't know anyone that walks this planet that hasn't lost something and whether it be a pet a child a relationship with a with even
And nothing is too small or too big really at the end of the day. It's how it feels for you. You know, have you ever talked to anybody who lost like a doll or something when they were a kid and they're 60 years old and they're still talking about the loss of thing. So it's not about the size of what it is. It's not what or who it is. It's really about how you feel and how the feelings that come up and I remember reading
in an article one time that has become a can't remember the article but I remember that it sort of became a litmus test for me to know whether or not I'm holding onto something too tightly and it's affecting my relationships and what it was was and I think it touched a little bit on this and the Forgiveness episode when the first feeling that comes up when you think of something is pain. Yeah anger sadness.
Shame guilt. That's something you're probably holding onto. Yes. So for example, the loss of my great grandmother who was really a mother to me. She was everything I you know, when I was a child and funny in our feelings come up when you and I are talking about stuff, but we could talk about it all day long, but I guess when we're talking about it in the episode we're so connected to our feelings and we're so present that the feeling starts to come up because I just started to feel like oh I could cry.
I loved my grandmother so much the difference is that when I think about her now the first thought that I have I can smell the rose talcum. I can see her face and my first thought is a big smile and I just feel this this yum feeling. I don't even know how to describe it. It's so amazing. And then after if I stay there for a little while I can take myself back.
To the feeling of loss and sadness and if I need to, you know have a cry or whatever but be able to bring myself back to this place where now she lives with me all the time and I love her and it's such a joy to have her there things that happen and I think about her my mother and I talked about her. She she basically raised both of us my mother and I we both had really complicated childhoods who has it and we talk about her we laugh.
And I remember years ago before I did some grief work. I did some really serious work where I released and let her let her go or I I grieved her because I was holding on to it and I didn't grieve because it was so painful. Yeah when I finally allowed myself to do that on the other side. She just she would just come back to me in this beautiful amazing way and I think
that that's one of the reasons why I was so excited when you wanted to do this episode because a lot of people don't realize that was talking about this with a friend of mine just a week ago where she was talking about her mother and I said, do you talked to her? She said no, she's dead. Yeah. Yes. I understand I said to her. Well, let me ask you this. You have a son we were talking about her son and some turbulence that she's having with her with her son. And I said
When you leave this earth, how would you like your son to remember you do you want him to feel you and talk to you in those moments when when he doesn't have you there? How would you like that to happen? She said oh, of course, I want him to think about me. I want to do you want him to talk to you every once in a while? She said well, yeah, and I said so why are you talking to your mother? Right is it I'm not talking about walking down Walmart saying hey Mom, do you like? Yes.
Essence their spirit is still with us. Yeah, and and that's in true when they're gone and true while they're here. So that that's the connection that's never broken. Yeah, and and and I think that so I actually have a relationship that that ended a while ago. It was a very close friendship and I'm in the middle. I got one foot in and one foot out. There are times when I'm talking to somebody and I can remember the good times and there are other times where it's like I can't and my first that
First thing that comes up is this person did not care about me. Sure. So I know that I'm on that path and that's okay. I'm not not mad at it. Right? I wish you were gone, but I'm not mad. I also when you talk about your brother shot, it's just I love hearing you talk about him. Especially when you say their times. Are you bring them up when you and I argue? Yeah, you're like, well, you know, I used to be able to discuss this stuff at my brother and I miss
And I'm like, oh really love throwing that in your face. So I guess I'm not good enough, but that's sort of I know a lot of couples that go through this stuff where we are simultaneously we're going through our stuff and we're also going through our stuff while in relationship. How is that for you when you when you do that? Well, you know,
No, Ron a thought to my mind because the topic is lost and abandonment and they are hand in hand and will do anything not to feel those feelings that both of those bring so it's afraid of losing the loss you and I had this conversation. We felt we were making Headway. We were ridding ourselves of toxic relationships ridding ourselves of the toxic residual feelings inside from those releasing them on and remember us talking about
What are we going to do when when we burnt all that up? And that was fuel for our life. As long as I'm not dealing with what's in me. I can do we're afraid of the change a free to letting the fuel goes. So to speak then then we're running from the dark were running from our feelings. What are you going to do? Once we owe we run toward the light now we run toward love we come from a place of love no longer fear. That's the new source and motivation is
Not that we haven't come from a place of Love Before It's a duality were running from something and running towards something. What what you're talking about is when the greatest successes that have that I've had in my life. We're in moments where I was miserable absolute right like songwriters energy transformation. What a country singer is going to do when they finally work through your their loss of their dog their girlfriend and their gun. Yeah, whatever it is today, by the way, if you play the record backwards you get all those things back.
Back, so what do you do? I know you're out of material, right? We were sitting on the couch talking about the fact that I said, you know after I went into forgiveness after after the the year-long Cintron forgiveness tour a reconnection tour happened I said, how am I ever going to find success again now that I'm happy, you know, and we were talking about yeah. What are we going to do? What are we going to be?
By and I'm on a journey right now and I'm actually finding that I am fueled by now my own desires to achieve X Y and Z and I just feel lighter it I've replaced the negative sad angry. I'm going to do this in spite of you. I'm going to be successful in my relationships. I'm going to be happy in my life in spite of what you've done.
Done to me. I replaced that with a Relentless pursuit of joy and happiness. Hey, it's in the Constitution. Right? We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men and women are created equal that we are endowed by our creator to for endowed with certain unalienable rights that among these rights are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. So yeah, but so picture your mind, okay and well just for like of a picture your brain. Imagine taking a
Big ol Fish Hook stabbing your brain into the hook is a 10-pound weight and you've got many of those one. In fact for every grievance that you hold this person. Did this that marriage failed because that person didn't do this. This person wasn't everyone and that's what we're using. Our minds for our minds are sitting there holding all that up holding onto it and then you know taking them hooks out is probably your like ripping the Band-Aid off. So we don't we want to continually add more weight whereas our minds weren't.
Built for that they weren't designed for that. So the idea is to release all those things and let your mind free up so you can be and live the life that we were meant to live because I can't imagine we came from an extension of an eternal life force to experience all this in truth. We experience everything that we experience as a choice, but we don't know that at some point, you know, we hope and I hope for everyone that they realize hey, I chose this even when something bad happens to
So we can chose to relive it over and over again. Keep letting it happen to us and what the course teaches as well for the sake of argument here. We are not a body. We occupy a body. So anything that happens to our body anything is happening to the body. We occupy it's not happen in quote to to who we really are. So your spirit your spirit can feel that pain of what the body is experiencing, but it's in your mind, you know, if you're intimate with someone physically, but your minds not there and you remarried for
12 years. I was married for a while. I'm sure many people may be in the spot and to those who have it kudos to you. So my point is minds are connected bodies aren't we are not bodies we our minds because the proof of that is I read this one time. What if you lost all your arms and your legs then you lost yourself? No, you lost parts of your body, but you are in fact, you may be more of a person than where you then you were when you had all your limbs, you know, and that's the whole idea is that
It's about taking those hooks with all them weights out of your mind so that it can be freed up. You unbind your mind and but we again we're afraid to lose our losses because it's what we know and we feed it. And what's until yeah. It's such a broad it's comfortable and we don't want to change but if we remove it then what it's almost like you've been in the dark your whole life. Well, what if I get sunburn if I go out in the sun a long I'm used to this take the chance. Okay, you got sunburn but you know
the question is this a choice. Do you want to continue to live this way me personally I got tired of it. I got tired of holding grudges against people, you know, they did this and that well, yeah, they did that but how why am I holding onto my reaction about it? And it erodes relationship? Oh my God it absolutely it just creates. I for example have realized that I've been
Selecting the same personality to be around me to work through stuff. I've been witness to this and I've actually been really grateful. This is the first time that I've ever been in relationship with friend or partner that has lovingly let me know. Does this sound familiar to you this this this this and you know and humbly
I've had to look at it. I mean the feeling comes up of anger. You don't know me but but really when I sit back and think about it, yes, I do keep selecting the same kind and I have girlfriends to do the same thing. They picked and you've had you've had the same situation with partners that you chose in the same one over and over and over and over again and here you and I are very different from the partners that we've chosen in the past. However, the
baggage comes up. Yeah, so stuff will come up and we'll we'll go round and round with each other respectfully and then there always comes a point where we look at each other and say who this we're doing this are we we're doing that old dance. Yeah, we're doing that old are aware of it. Yeah, and then we just sort of once that awareness comes up. It's great because now we know what's happening and we're very gentle with each other as well you have
You allow your partner whether it's a friendship or a work relationship or love relationship. You have to allow them to space to misbehave or or say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing and be gentle with them and be gentle with yourself and use your words and use your feelings and remember if you want to be in a relationship with this person.
Remember that and then come from a place of Love? Yeah, we even did it last night. What were we we were going around around about something last night. Oh this podcast was scheduled last night and we're just uh, because I was I ran a few minutes late and then you got in a tizzy you could have called that's not in a tizzy. So but we worked it out and I felt that and I said, I feel bad for Jesse and I'm thinking maybe maybe it maybe he'll this hope it worked out for him.
Justification see that's why happened is happen for Jesse Yeah, and then I wasn't that because you like don't excuse the fact that you were running late. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it basically I was okay with the fact that you were late, but you said something about like you were justifying why you were late and it irritated me because I don't like it but it but what really what is about is used to in a past relationship follows one second late. I heard this.
Firestorm of you're a bad husband you've ruined my life and I thought because I was one second late and I mean really so it brought up. So it was I'm not glad to happen but there's still some residual we caught it and I realize because and because I was yelling at you. I just said, you know, it's all right. I moved it Forward. He's got to change the schedule anyway, and we're talking about him. Jesse is our sound engineer and producer has guy ever. Thank you space ghost podcast, but shout out.
And and and I was irritated because we had an appointment but I didn't yell at you and then feeling started coming up and then you started getting irritated and then I was like always getting irritated just turned into this thing that it wasn't but it when examining it and they're brought up some residual fit but also I was upside could for being late so we spend a little time but then we ended up laughing in the end because it were aware.
Are of what's Happening rather than us just being mad and just God. Well, you know what? Let's just going off into a tangent instead of staying in the moment with that issue. So and I think that's one of the things that I'm so grateful for with us is that stuff happens. It comes up we're human beings and we all have all of the experiences that we bring into it, but we always remember that we love each other and that
As irritated as we get were respectful. Yeah, and we remember that when this is over we're still in a relationship together and really were upset with what happened. That's right. We're not upset with you. I don't hate you. I'm upset that you ran late. I'm upset that these feelings are coming up. I'm upset that we're upset. Yeah, so stay in that and talk about it and then move through and if it gets too much it happens that there are times.
Are my Cuban comes up and my Palestinian comes up and my woman comes up and Marcel looks at me and says that's why I need my hands over my throat to protect myself, but that's okay. I'm leaving and I say look, there's nothing I can do.
And we both know that that means I need two minutes like give let me go and you create you allow that's that breathing space. He leaves he calls me says okay. I'm coming back. He drove around the block. It's like okay. I'm coming back like okay come back or drive around the block again and then come back. Yes, and the other thing is we bring it out and we're able to
We're working out our personal issues. So we both agree you learn more about yourself in a relationship with someone in the problem is if you're trying to pick them apart and pointing out what's wrong with them rather than me being we're share. Hey, I've uncovered this about myself or thank you for pointing that out rather than dogging me out. Yeah. I want to work. I don't want to feel that anymore. You know, that chapter was written a long time ago, and I want to close it but it won't close because that energy is still there. I'm associating it.
You know something in the present and triggering it so and and that reminds me also something that I said to you last night when we were discussing what was going on. I said to you, you know, what's going on. I think that your fear of loss and abandonment you are waiting for me to do exactly what your ex-wife did so you're setting up a situation should be true so that I'm gone.
I will do the exact same thing so you can make yourself. Right and this is an important lesson I think for people because I do this all the time as or or and I hate to this could be true. Maybe I projected you and you are my eggs. And I went and now here's the problem again. I'm better prepared to deal with it. And this is how I'm going to deal with it. We're trying I believe are always trying to resolve conflict within ourselves. We're not aware of it. We don't realize and this is why we go from one relationship to others the same thing same thing same thing. And so
Yeah with with me and Mike are always trying to work it out absolutely don't know how with my fear of loss and abandonment with my grandmother with my parents with I've had a ton of loss. I've had long friendships that have just you know imploded and the thought comes up in my head every once in a while. Well there he goes he's going to be gone and this is over this relationship is done. Yeah. Goodbye over now.
Nice exact I don't need to be and then I started justified in my head. I don't need a relationship. I could be by myself. I'll just take me to the nunnery and just beyond my own it like a few here and just be done and that is our psyche that that is our old talk coming or old skills. Yes quote skill set that we used in relationship because it's comfortable because we're setting ourselves up because what we know is acting ourselves and
Um, the differences that now because I've really taken a hard look at it when it comes up. I can recognize it. I can see it. I can look at it in my mind's eye and say okay. I am this is what I'm doing. I need to just breathe be be in the space and just let it come back to reality and then just sort of talk myself off the ledge we
Just had an argument. It's a disagreement. It doesn't mean he's leaving he is not X y&z don't make this bigger than what it is. This is what it is here and then sort of move through that so that when we come back together to talk we can have a conversation about what it is and at the end what I find is that I feel closer to you. It brings a deeper sense of intimacy because into me see now you see into me and you kind of
Understand yourself better and it's almost the again going back to fear of criticism. I don't criticize you and you're not afraid to open up and same thing with me that we're going to be shut down because it's image. We've made of ourselves. We need people to accept it. So we feel safe and secure. So once the facade lifts and we get vulnerable about because we're not even always sure of what's going on in us and that's that's really what I'm trying to figure out what is in me that caused me to feel a certain way or agitated, you know, and we're trying to work through all that.
That and again, I think it is fear of criticism. And so in truth, I am working as hard as I can on myself. My issues that I have I'm not going to dump them on you especially give the responsibility of having you fixed me and I've been guilty of that too in my mind. I'm trying to fix people, you know, which is a huge mistake. It's like teaching trying to teach a pig to fly. First of all, it's impossible and irritate the hell out of the pig so
It's just you need to work on yourself. Let every by me. And so you said something before about you know, I li you the space and that you know again, this would be me and you having a conversation or you know, so and it's not in this is a different topic but being aware I used to say hey, if you're with someone that says, well, you know, I give you your space. It's like I didn't know Myspace was yours to give to me. It's like I'm sorry. You don't know that it's all mine.
Is the toughest job in the world and at the end and we're letting go of the things that are keeping us from experiencing life in its.
We are caught up in one dramatic scene too long. And in the in this current scene, we're bringing fear anxiety and worry from the future into it and game guilt shame and regret from the past. So you want to come from a position of strength not weakness from a position of unity, not separation and a position of love not fear. So the fear and abandonment go hand-in-hand and I think at the heart of it if we can identify.
Those fears are and figure out how to let go of them is the best way to do it. Then you can basically run toward the light instead of running from the darkness, which I think that fuel is running its course because I've watched you and how you've dealt with a lot of these energies and why you kept repeating them because I was able to because I saw myself doing the same thing and it wasn't like I pointed the finger at you going this is what you will say. Hey, you know what? I was aware of something at myself, you know, and what do you think and then kind of working?
For you to actually able to resolve that in you it was almost like me Resolve an end because we're helping each other. We're interdependent. It's like I'm bouncing think I'm not worried about you criticizing me or judging me or anything like that. Well, one of the things that I learned in one of my personal growth programs was what I see in you that I see in me. Yeah, and it's true that helped me so much because the reality
Leti is that a lot of what is coming up is stuff that's coming up in me, which takes us full circle resolving what's inside of us so that we can be in relationship together. Let's assume for a moment. Okay that the thus I won't even say true. But this this may sound true. There's an eternal source of life and we are an extension of that that's here temporarily in this physical world. Okay.
And this eternal Source of Life wants to come out in a beautiful form because that's what it is. Love joy Beauty happiness, but something's blocking it. Okay, and that blockage we call separation abandonment fear were holding onto and that life's trying to get out of us. That's why we always we have these urges. You know, this is silent voice calling out. Hey your Eternal, you know, we don't hear that we hear you're ugly. You're fat your Daddy doesn't love you.
Mommy didn't hold you your mother didn't want to give birth to you. You know this person whatever. That's the voices. We listen to instead of just exactly where not good enough. And this is what what I've learned from the course this eternal source of life is eternal. So are we so we can choose to be those other things and what we do in this life, but we can also choose to be Eternal and choose that aspect ourselves and just try to experience the best
is that this life has to offer because we are going to always project to World outside of our head. That's the protection world to get rid of the pain and fear or so that doesn't happen again, whatever the abandonment fear issues we have so and I think it's a work in progress and I definitely know this for a fact I have a lot less of me in all of that fear abandonment all that stuff and all those feelings that go with a lot lot lot less than I did.
Ed two years ago and so I'm letting it all go and now starting to feel you know, just of just want to be happy and I there's an old saying die before you die. So there's a part of me that I like about better harsh where I'm trying to murder as fast as I can. I don't I don't want that part of me that goes into those thoughts. Those mind says those old habits that bring sadness and guilt and anxiety and worry. I don't want that state of mind, but don't want anymore.
And you say is it possible to live in a constant state of Joy? Absolutely. And so I think constantly choosing constantly and it becomes automatic after a while, right? These are new to the program reflects in our mental muscles here and getting the real strength that comes from from love. Ya Wow. Let's to talk about Eddie heavy today. Yes, definitely. So we'd love to hear from our listeners if you'd like to keep the conversation going.
Follow us on Facebook connect with us visit our website or blog and I think that that's offered you want to mention again. We are having a conversation inspired by a course of Miracles. You're not a therapist. I call it. Yeah. We're just having a conversation on what's working for us inspired by just a few few simple lessons and that are working for us. Exactly. Yeah, we're not professionals. We're just you know,
Playing this material is available in other books or whatever just happened. And this isn't intended to be a replacement for for people's personal beliefs and their personal faith. I my belief is that all religions and all spirituality spirituality. They all that's yeah all paths lead to a desire for peace. Love. Joy free spirit good health.
Absolutely. So if you are feeling feelings of Abandonment and loss and you feel alone and you feel that you don't have anyone seek help talk to someone talk to your pastor your priest seek a therapist talk to a friend. Don't don't whatever you do. Don't sit in it by yourself. Yeah, you know get on the path and we hope and we wish you peace love and joy until next time I'm Cynthia Cintron.
Marcel Pope and you have been listening to fight the good fight club.