Tristan Tucker

Warwick brings world-renowned dressage expert Tristan Tucker to talk about the deep-rooted beliefs and practices that separate Tristan from the rest of the dressage world. This is a conversation you don't want to miss, with deep insights into Tristan's mindset about competition, connection to his horses, and of course his alter ego Brett Kidding.

Tristan mentions a book about halfway through, the name of it is:
Psychobehavioral Vision Enhancement Albert Shankman

Chapters

• 0:34 Introduction
• 3:26 Tristan Tucker
• 9:00 Tristan's Journey
• 17:04 How To Do It Better
• 23:07 What Did You Want To Be As A Child?
• 24:35 Competition Mindset
• 29:57 Brett Kidding
• 37:28 Tristan's Book Recommendation
• 43:42 Biggest Failure
• 46:26 Body SDS - Bengt Valentino Andersen
• 1:01:24 Unusual Habit
• 1:07:40 International Competition
• 1:15:00 How Do You Relieve Stress?
• 1:20:54 Vulnerability and Horses
• 1:27:43 TRT Live
• 1:42:57 The Meaning of Life

Transcript

Speaker 1: (00:08)
You're listening to the journey on podcast with Warwick Schiller Warwick is a horseman, trainer, international clinician and author, whose mission is to help people achieve a deeper connection with their horses through his transformational training program.

Warwick: (00:35)
Hi everyone, it's Warwick Schiller and welcome back to another episode of the journey on podcast. You know, last year, my son, Tyler and I were in Holland doing some clinics and I got a, I got a Facebook message from Tristan Tucker and Tristan Tucker is an Australian who lives in Holland, uh, trains, high level dressage horses, but also has, he has alter ego named Brett Kidding. So if you haven't seen you, haven't seen any videos of Brett Kidding, just go on YouTube and look up Brett Kidding. He's got a trailer loading one, and he's also got a thing where he does a grand prix dressage, uh, in this alter ego of Brett Kidding. And he does a running commentary of what he's, what he's up to, why he's doing it. And it's absolutely hilarious. Like the guy's a comic genius. Ain't really good with the horses.

Warwick: (01:27)
And so Tristan messaged me. He lives in Holland and he messaged me and he said, Hey, you should come visit me while you guys are in Holland. And I was doing like, I had a horse expo, you know, like Saturday, Sunday, then I had Monday to drive somewhere else to a clinic. Uh, Tuesday, Wednesday, something like that. Then I had Thursday to drive some where that I was going to do a Friday, Saturday clinic, something like that. And so I really didn't have time to go traipse around the countryside, visiting this fellow that I've spoken to on Facebook, but never met in person. And he said, Oh, one of the, he answered back and said, one of the places you're doing a clinic, I live in that town. So we got done with the clinic. I think it was like a Tuesday, Wednesday, something like that.

Warwick: (02:08)
We only had to drive four hours to the next, uh, clinic the next day. You know, we had a day to drive four hours. So we went out and saw Tristan the next morning. And we spent three hours talking to him and it went by in about five minutes and we got in the car afterwards and Tyler and I looked at each other and I said, that has gotta be the most interesting human being I've ever met. Like this guy's absolutely fascinating. So if you, if you, uh, know who, uh, Tristan Tucker is, I'm about to get him on the line here. And if you don't know who he is, just go on YouTube, look up, Brett Kidding, look up the trailer, loading one and the dressage one. Even if you've watched them before, go back and watch him again before I interview him here because, the guy's a comedic genius and an amazing horseman.

Warwick: (03:01)
And actually before we, the night before we went to Tristan's place in Holland last year, I had my, so Tyler, my son, Tyler had no idea who he was. So I had Tyler watch both of those videos just to get an idea who Tristan was. So yeah, go watch that now, then come back. And, by the time you come back, I'll have Tristan on the line and we'll have a conversation with the amazing Tristean Tucker. So here we have it, ladies and gentlemen, the one, the only Tristan Tucker, how ya going, mate.

Tristan: (03:31)
Very good. I I'm pretty happy to be here, actually. I'm glad I got in on time for you.

Warwick: (03:37)
Yeah, well this is actually to be honest, this is our to be truthful. This is our second attempt at this. The last time we did this once and how long did it go for an hour and a half, two hours? Something crazy like that.

Tristan: (03:49)
It's mind blowing. I can't believe the things that came out so disappointing. It didn't work technically

Warwick: (03:57)
Now I think it will just be better this time, but yeah, we had some technical difficulties with the audio, so we're going to get to do it all again. So it's like eight, eight 30 at night in Holland?

Tristan: (04:07)
Yeah.

Warwick: (04:09)
So you were just telling me you've been to a horse show today.

Tristan: (04:12)
Yeah. We had, uh, two horses, two young stallions from a young girl, a client that's riding here got some horses in training. Um, yeah. And it's a qualifier here in Holland for, yeah, it's, it's the biggest, uh, four and five year old, young horse classes. And often through that, they're picking the, uh, horses for the world championships.

Warwick: (04:39)
Okay, cool. And you took geldings, mares?

Tristan: (04:42)
Two stallions.

Warwick: (04:43)
Oh yeah. How were they?

Tristan: (04:46)
Perfect. Perfect. They hadn't been anywhere before and they loaded on the trailer in the two small horse truck and arrived, happy, not screaming and were relaxed coming off and we could walk into the arena and step on and just warm up as if they were at home. They performed perfectly. So we were really happy.

Warwick: (05:07)
And every other horse there behaved exactly the same way?

Tristan: (05:09)
Yeah, absolutely. In the eyes of the people that were riding them.

Warwick: (05:18)
What about in the eyes of Tristan Tucker how'd the rest of them look?

Tristan: (05:20)
Well, I sort of try to take my, uh, my focused student pupil blinkers on and try to look at the horse I'm supposed to,

Warwick: (05:37)
Well, yeah, Tristan and I had a little chat before we started recording here and apparently his two stallions were the only two stallions that were not lunged for an hour and ran around screaming and carrying on. So what the rest of them are riding warmbloods and you've got two quarter horses. Is that what's going on there?

Tristan: (05:53)
That's right. Yeah.

Warwick: (06:04)
Yeah. I, you know, I, I used to find it fascinating people would, uh, I don't know what you, you know, in your experience because you've been around a lot more warm bloods than me, but I would have people tell me that, uh, warm bloods are, and then they insert a whole list of adjectives. You know, they're slow maturing or they're spooky or they're anxious or they're hot, or they're just all these different, uh, adjectives to describe them. And I'd always say, you know, I've had, I've had quite a few of them and I didn't get the good ones. I got the ones people were having problems with, but I've never had one like that. I mean, they came in like that, but didn't finish up like that. And so it's, it's not that breed does that. It's a certain atmosphere type of handling human interactions. They have that, that can, if not managed well, cause that, but it's not the actual breed. That's the, that has the issue.

Tristan: (07:02)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of the time, uh, the people that are involved in those breeds, they have characters kind of tend to shape how the horse becomes or is perceived. Um, I did a little work when I was doing sort of shows back in Denmark when I first came to Europe and we had a big Belgian, it was a three year old stallion and also a little Indian paint, pony stallion. And we did a show called big and little and big was yeah, a young stallion. And, you know, they're pulling horses, huge, gigantic sort of things, you know, feet, the size of dinner plates. And, um, I'd, we'd got this three year old, he'd done nothing out of the field. And then his owner came, also a big farmer in steady. And, uh, we were sort of rushing cause we were a little bit late, we were meant to be there in the morning and strolled up the field.

Tristan: (07:59)
And he said, you know, you want to start with a cup of tea, sit down. Oh yes, sorry. We're a bit late, strolls up in the field. We had a cup of tea and then an hour later, we go out into the field and then the horse just sort of strolls up in the same way as the owner in a three year old and uh, put a halter on, walk him into the stable, tied him up. And we were going there just to work with him to see if we could, cause that was our idea. We wanted a big Belgian and then we were going to teach him to Roman ride and put this amazing show together. And uh, the horse was exactly like his owner. And I said to him, you know, these heavy horses, they're all bloody, pretty placid aren't they? He said, ah, no, not really. He said, they are, they're pretty wild. They can, if they decide to go, you know, they'll get away from you. They had this vision, you know, that these were high powered, you know, pulling athletes. And we sort of saw them, you know, as these quiet, easy going, you know, Placid plodders.

Warwick: (09:06)
Yeah. Well perspective is, is, uh, your perspective, correct? Your reality. So let's talk a bit about your journey here, Tristan, like you like me where like young fellows from Australia grew up in a little town sort of thing and ended up half a world away. How did you, what's the story to, how did you end up going from you grew up in country, Victoria, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. So how'd you how'd you end up going from a small town in country Victoria to the Heights of dressage. I mean in Europe.

Tristan: (09:42)
Yeah. Well I like most kids in Australia came through the pony club system and so I was a mad novelty games, rider show jumper, eventer. I was, uh, an apprentice jockey when I was young 14 to 17 or something riding. Yeah. So, uh, I'd sort of say to my, when I was actually born in the UK and my parents immigrated to Australia when I was one, um, and mum worked in a racing stable with Trotters. So I was sort of brought up in the stable. Um, my grandfather was also a horseman and they'd also immigrated a year later than we did. And, um, he was sort of buying horses from the gypsies and that was the influence from mom. She had always had a paddock of horses to ride cause my granddad just kept buying them. And uh, yeah, then mom's influenced through being at the stable all the time and then coming through the pony club system and riding track were getting in the racing industry.

Tristan: (10:40)
Um, and then at a point I had some eventers that were terrible at jumping. So I was trying to Polish up their dressage for the Danish trainer that happened to be out at the time. And he did his education back in Denmark and was good friends with one of my great mentors, which was Morton Thompson. And he'd asked, um, this trainer, this Danish trainers that came to Australia at the time if he knew any young fellows that could come and ride the young horses and start them under saddle and then ride the stallions. And then I came to Europe then in, I was halfway through my degree, I was doing a visual arts degree. Um, and then, uh, I sort of stopped smoking weed and deferred for it here, my visual arts degree and came to Europe and I worked for Morton and that was my eye opener for the dressage world. And he introduced me to, he was having a lot of Spanish horses Lusitanos and teaching a lot of amazing things, things that I'd never even imagined possible with a horse. And, uh, yeah, it sorta went from there. I was there for a year and then I went back, finished my degree and I started my own business in horses. Of course did nothing with my degree, um, per se and, uh, know it sort of went from there.

Warwick: (12:04)
So the plot thickens now, you're not just this amazing horse guy, but you've got a visual arts degree. Those two don't probably always go together. Do they?

Tristan: (12:16)
Um, it worked perfectly for me because all of my, you sort of have to, you become a practicing artist, you have to learn all the different mediums at the, in the beginning. And then you sort of choose what you want to work with. So I was doing photography in digital multimedia, and then I was sort of taking a chemist shop prints and sticking them all together and painting over them and re photographing them. And all my artwork was a way of me observing how I worked with my horses. So I was forced to analyze it and explain it weekly in front of a large group and then sort of have, you know, curated gallery and put on an exhibition and eat cheese and drink wine and fascinate people with my horses. So it was a way of me reflecting on myself and my interaction. So what I was doing with my horse training.

Warwick: (13:08)
Ah, okay. That makes a lot of sense right there that, that kind of joins the dots a little bit more because my little intro I did before we got you on, I said that, uh, you know, after we, when Tyler and I came and visited you last year and at your place in Holland and we got in the car and I looked at Tyler and I said, that's the most interesting person I've ever met in my life. And that's yeah. So little things like, you know, that whole visual arts degree and then what it did for you with the horses like that, that I don't know that it's almost like the inner work, like that self observation stuff that a lot of people in our day and age don't take the time to do. Like we're all busy doing something, but there's just that, that being able to be still and reflect on things is a, I don't know, it's kind of a bit of a long lost art if you remember, remember when we were kids and like you'd be in town somewhere and there'd be some old fella just sitting on his front veranda, looking out over the fence.

Warwick: (14:08)
And they like, they sit there for hours, like who sits still and just does nothing these days. You know what I mean?

Tristan: (14:16)
That's right. I sorta grew up, my, uh, my parents were divorced when I was eight and I spent a lot of my mum was sorta working three jobs and I would spend a lot of time with my grandparents. My grandfather was one of my great early mentors. He sort of made hard work seem like this really interesting, you know, life seeking achievable thing. And so we would work and he would teach me all sorts of things about tying ropes and he'dsort of hook up a rope on the side of the shed and show me a knot that would help me to tie down something on a truck or a crazy horse or something, which ended up being in the future. But he, um, yeah, he sort of, and then just sit there and sort of watch me doing it. And then I tie the knot and then I'd sit next to him.

Tristan: (15:04)
And we'd just sort of sit there and look at the, not for ages, not just know that was the thing that you did. It's what you do when you've done something good. You sit back and you look at it for a while. In the beginning, when I was a kid, I said, I didn't know why I was doing it, but I just did it because Grandad was doing it. And then, uh, I often reflect back on that and I have moments where I think I'm just going to sit on the bench here, look at this horse for a while.

Warwick: (15:32)
Once again, the plot thickens that, that, that makes a lot of sense. I'm actually reading a book on shamanism right now. And one of the things that, that has you, one of the exercise that has you do is sit somewhere in nature and just observe first. They want you to just sit and observe the sensations in your body first, and then they want you to listen and see, just observe all the sounds and I can, I can identify then they want you to just observe and look at everything without judging it, just observing it. But then at some point in time, you go back to the first one to where you observe things and they want you to 50% observe it with your eyes and 50% feel it with your gut feel kind of basically listen for messages from what you're observing. Do you get any body sensations and stuff? And I think that, I think you may have had a little bit of that training earlier on with your grandfather, which is, I think has, I don't know, probably a part of the mystery of Tristan Tucker.

Tristan: (16:43)
No, it definitely plant seeds in you early on. And you, you become attracted to those seeds that are planted in you. I think I'm an early age and then you sort of get attracted to those things and you pick up on those things that, yeah.

Warwick: (16:55)
Oh, so then you, so you went and worked for this Martin feller for awhile.

Tristan: (17:00)
Yeah. I was there for a year in the beginning and then went home and finished the degree, as I said, and then went to working horses. And I was in, uh, I worked for Hetherton Park, actually was riding dressage horses there for people. And also Jean was also really great mentor for me, sort of with business and getting a smart head and being out to build something for yourself. Um, I also had sort of a, you know, just really that mentor relationship, you know, we, weren't just working horses, talking about horses, you know, we'd, we'd be building something on his property or trimming the hedges or doing these sorts of things. And then you were sort of putting a smarts about me of doing things smart and not hard. Yeah. And then I sort of made enough money and I bought my own place in Nanogoon.

Tristan: (17:47)
And then through the racing industry, through becoming the Harry Potter of being able to fix horses, like a lot of horsemen that have sort of made a start with problem horses. And, uh, yeah, and then I was sort of starting a hundred horses a year out the back of Nanogoon by myself with a bit of sand on the ground and slowly built some stables. And then I, uh, started a few, made a few guys around me that started to come and thing. What's this guy doing in tight pants, breaking in horses without a round pen. And, uh, yeah, just sort of built the business there in Nanogoon and then I had also come in, competing dressage horses up to grand Prix, but then I was doing a lot of, um, pre trainers and know I had quite some quiet, uh, really good clients from sort of Coalfield area in the racing industry.

Tristan: (18:42)
And I had a lot of troublesome horses coming for training and retraining, and then I'd go back to Coalfield and also ride them on the track a bit. And they had problems with areas or bolting or some kind of trauma. Um, I lived in that world a bit while I was in undergrad. Um, and then I had a few cutting mates around the corner that was sort of training, cutting horses and reiners and doing a bit of that. So, um, that was sort of bringing horses and I was helping them and yeah, sort of got a good camaraderie through that way. And then I was sort of traveling backwards and forwards to Europe to keep contact with Morton for a month here and there. Then I decided to move back. I was going to take three horses with me and, uh, study for two years. And that was, uh, yeah, I think more than 10 years ago.

Warwick: (19:31)
So it sounds like Morton was, um, not just your average dressage trainer from what you've told me in the past, Morton could do things with horses that, you know, a lot of people wouldn't even think possible, you know, uh, you know, I think, I think a lot of people that do dressage, uh, that's all, they that's all they do. And, and it sounds like you had a mentor earlier on that could do that, but could do all sorts of other amazing things too. Cause that's the thing that kind of makes you stick out is the fact that, uh, you do the dressage, but you also have the whole, I don't know what you want to call it, the horsemanshippy side of it too, where it's just not about the event. It's more about the, the horse and the horse, mental wellbeing and completely understanding horses. And I think that's just an odd, a bit of an odd thing in the dressage world these days.

Tristan: (20:25)
Yeah, I think, um, it helps that I came from Australia, I think coming from, you know, country where we have a culture of using horses, um, where in Europe, it's about sport. You go to a riding school, you learn how to sit, you learn the technical aspect of riding to be successful in sport from a kid on ponies and then juniors and young rider. Um, you know, when you're 12, you're focusing on in Europe going to the Europeans and winning a gold medal, um, it's about sport and success and accolades and achievement. Um, and for me through the influence of my grandfather and, and then as I went along, that sort of attracted me to the top of mentors that I ended up having. I think that I was, you know, then searching for somebody that was in the that's, why I was, uh, sort of really had a good connection, always with more.

Tristan: (21:28)
And then you, that he had such an inquisitive mind of what was possible, you know, and how to do it better. And then this guy, he was doing this and this guy, he can do Spanish walk into plea, and then canter backwards and canter piroette on three legs. And he was us like this every day. And I was just thinking shit like, is there nothing he can't do with a horse? Like I want to learn this stuff. And, uh, yeah, that's sort of where my main focus, I think with horses in the end, and then you want to learn as much as you can about horses and then that the chosen discipline for me, most, of course also influenced by the mentors, but, um, the act of dressage itself to develop a horse, to be a Supreme being, an athlete, somebody that becomes a master of himself, you know, as a child, I was obsessed with Kung Fu movies and Bruce Lee, and wanted to be a Buddhist monk when I was, you know, from a young age and I wanted to master walking on water and, um, you know, chucking my hands into hot stones and becoming superhuman.

Tristan: (22:42)
Um, and so, yeah, that's sort of, what's my go to, and then through the dressage, I felt that that is what you can create in the horse, that he also feels super human. He has an athletic body that is powerful and balanced and he knows what to do with himself. 100% of the time

Warwick: (23:07)
There you have it Ladies and gentlemen, I told you, he's the, he's the most interesting human being I've ever met. Uh, you just answered one of my questions. I was going to ask you, and it was question number 18. What did you want to be as a child? Now we know - Bruce Lee

Tristan: (23:22)
That's right. I mean, I could talk Chinese. I could recite your movies from SBS, really get one in the morning, come out. And I used to tell the kids at school, I could talk Chinese and I could recite full length Jackie Chan movies, not knowing a word of what I was saying. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And it was mind boggling to me, you know, those movies. And I didn't have an understanding of what special effects were, you know, and the fact that a guy could like crawl on his back, like a centipede, um, along the ground and then just stand upright and then fly over the head of another guy. When I was really young fella, I used to watch monkey magic with my old man, you know, and I, I was forever then going down into the paddock with mum and, you know, doing the old finger move and then jumping up on the back of my horse, imagining I was Roman riding before I even knew what Roman riding was, my horse was my cloud.

Warwick: (24:33)
Oh, that's awesome. Um, so you're talking about dressage a minute ago. So you, you know, you've been in, uh, Europe for 10 years now. You've been competing at high levels in the dressage. Yeah. And is that, is that what you're still passionate about these days? The competition part of it,

Tristan: (24:57)
Um, the concept of being passionate about competing and competition is a sense of a competitive sport and wanting to go and win and go to the Olympics and get a gold medal. And all of that is sort of the GPS in which you can follow someone, but the purpose of doing it and the passion for doing it is, uh, for me, something, something else, um, I want to compete, but not for the sake of competing. I want to perform. I want to take my horses and be able to show my horse. I want to be able to be in an environment like a world cup final. And I want to be in that space, in that atmosphere, with that energy, with a horse that I know inside and out. And I know that he knows the job 100% and I put him in on a stage and on a platform that enables him to Excel and to perform out of his natural abilities.

Warwick: (26:06)
And so that's whether it's it's competition or if it's demonstrations or so, you know.

Tristan: (26:16)
Yeah. I mean, demonstrations for me is real freestyle. You know, there are no rules, regulations. It is a true expression of oneself. Um, what excites me about sport is that there are regulations. You have to do something in a certain order at a certain moment. Um, and you have to prepare, and there's a time where they say, now you start and now you have to show your stuff. Um, and so to be able to perform freely with your own, uh, expression and knowledge and intuitiveness with your horse within a framework is what is exciting for me, because then you create also, um, a comparison, you know, and that you hope that people see something different that is not the regulation of this Piafe was a nine, no, this might've been whatever they gave him. But what I saw was something that I haven't seen before ever.

Tristan: (27:22)
Um, and that for me is exciting and clinics and demonstrations, that is a free expression of myself and that, and that for me is more about the interaction with the people and sharing knowledge and, um, being excited about a commonality and the passion of insight and knowledge and all those things. And sport for me is not about the people. It's not about the crowd. It's about the moment being in the moment with your horse, that there could be 5,000, 10,000, 20,000 people in a stadium, and you don't hear a single thing. You can still hear the breath of your horse. You can still feel, you know, everything that is part of your performance without distraction. That is monk like mindset for me to be in a huge stadium and hear nothing and see nothing and only feel the movements and what is required from you and your horse at that particular time.

Warwick: (28:25)
Wow. Um, when I did the book podcast, one of the books I talked about wasThe rise of Superman, it was stealing fire one or the other, but, um, in that book, they were talking to Dean Potter. And so have you ever seen the movie Free Solo about Alex Honnold, the rock climber? So he, he, Alex Honnold is one of, probably the best rock climber in the world. And he free solos El Capitan here in Yosemite, not far from here. So it's 3000 sheer granite, 3000 foot of sheer granite. Does it without any ropes. And does it in about six hours or something or other, normally it takes two men, 19 days to do it sort of thing. Um, and one of the guys he rock climbs with quite a bit is a fellow named Dean Potter. I mean, Potter actually died in a wing suiting accident in Yosemite, a number of years ago now, but even one of those books, Dean Potter, who could arguably be the second best rock climber in the world, you know, he's in the top 10 sort of thing. He said, I don't really like rocks. I like rock climbing because the place I have to go to mentally in order to rock climb, it's not about the rocks. And it sounds like that's what you're talking about here with, with the competing, it's almost like the judges and the 20,000 people watching is just stuff that can pull your mind off your job, you know, it's different than riding around at home. So it just makes it that more difficult to be monk like.

Tristan: (29:54)
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

Warwick: (29:57)
Talk about your, your, your Brett Kidding things you've done. How many times have you done the dressage? One of that.

Tristan: (30:04)
Yeah. Um, yeah. Countless, I'll tell you I've done it quite a bit. Yeah.

Warwick: (30:12)
Well, let's, let's talk a bit about Brent Kidding. Wait, wait a break. Where was Brett kidding born? You know, where did he come to life? How did he, how did he show up?

Tristan: (30:21)
Well, I'd been doing, I'd done a string of, uh, clinics, um, for the German Federation. So that means I was traveling to all the different regions, um, and giving clinics for the trainers of all the disciplines. Um, and, you know, I was starting with young horses and unbroken, and then right, the way through to all of the horses and explaining, um, to a very traditional, um, you know, classically training based ideology. Um, and I was fascinated in that in the beginning because of course I, you know, it's, I'm just Ozzie bloke going into, um, the Reich and explaining to them that their book is written wrong and finding a way to do that and not get kicked out of the place in the first five minutes, you know, and I, and that was interesting for me. And I had to be really creative and I always had to talk really from the horse's point of view.

Tristan: (31:35)
And, um, the Germans are also very direct, so they don't like stories and, uh, the whole, um, run around, they want to see your results and they want to get the direct message about what you're doing and why you're doing it and see the result. So I was on a long stint of doing this, and I have some points of frustration in that when I came back around the second time, um, I was seeing just the same old stuff and, um, horses sort of fixed in this training regime, where they were sort of fitting into a system, instead of them thinking about, you know, the age old story of putting a system that fits the horse. And, uh, and then I was invited to do the dressage convention by Carl Hester and Richard Davidson. And so that sort of swings you to the other end. You go from middle Germany, where they're wearing long black trench coats.

Tristan: (32:42)
And I, uh, and smoking a pipe and looking down their glasses at you, and you set your ass on fire and do a triple back, flip off a three year old, and they don't grin. And then you go to the UK with someone like Carl Hester, Richard Davidson. I mean, it's a free for all. They don't even ask me what I'm doing. They just said, can you come and just give, you know, we're going to be doing the dressage convention, you do about five, six sessions and just, you know, just do your thing. So that would sort of enlightened me. And I thought then, because I was trying to explain the, how to all the time and look at this horse, and these he's explaining to you where he's at and what information is missing. And it's all there in front of you conformationaly, or not.

Tristan: (33:32)
This is what the horse needs to know, and this is how we do it in a way that he understands. So he can move correctly and be in balance and have a chance in life. And, uh, and then I thought about turning it the other way and just, you know, I'd be having jokes with myself sometimes of, you know, playing the horses from some of these clinics I was going to, and then I'd thought about, you know, why don't I just do that? Why don't I just be honest with myself and with the people and just say how it is. And I wanted to explain that the horses really can become a master of themselves and that it didn't matter if there was a total idiot sitting on their back. If the horse knew the job, he could do it despite the lack of help or direction from the rider.

Tristan: (34:30)
So in the beginning, I was, I had made this plan to create a character called John Not-a-clue. And, uh, and I worked on my British accent and everything, and that, it was only about five minutes before I was meant to go on. And I was out in the back and was in AUSTRAC and Carl & Richard come and knock on the door. And they came in and said, Oh, Hey, you go in. And they saw me sort of half dressed up. We have, which is now Brett. And I said, what are you going to go? And what's, and I give them a bit of a story. And Richard is like, no, no, you can't change. You can't take the piss out of the British here. No, you have to change it up. You have to just do an Aussie accent, you know? And then Carl said, what do we call you? What's a real Aussie name. And they said, Oh, how about Brett? And, uh, one of us said, uh, I can't remember who, probably me. And I said, Oh, you gotta be kidding. I said, that's it, Brett kidding.

Warwick: (35:34)
So, so Carl Hester basically gave you the Brett. Yeah.

Tristan: (35:38)
Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So, uh, and then I didn't know what I was going to do still, actually, because I was five minutes before going in. And then the whole thing was not the whole thing changed up, but I had just went in and, and sort of winged it. And I actually just rode the Grand Prix and from out the back in the warmup, I was already speaking on the microphone of all the things you think of, you know, the stress factor before going in and is my head straight and bloody hell let's get the bandages off we've going to go in now, you know, I see his stressing out and he comes in, you go, Oh shit, there's Carl. You know, you see someone famous and you try and sit up a bit more straight. And then I just rode the Grand Prix.

Tristan: (36:17)
And I just said, all the things that come have, come into my mind while riding the test things that nobody says, but everybody thinks. And of course that resonated with everybody. And, and I think, um, also for me, I learned most of my things and became the most open and present and mindful through humor. It wasn't when someone sat me down and was serious and said, look, you know, this is what you got to do. I learned and absorbed most of my greatest values through after through humor. So that's how it came about.

Warwick: (36:59)
Do you practice Brett kitting or does he just show up

Tristan: (37:01)
He just shows up, you know, he, he sort of festers away sometimes. And then at some point, someone just calls up and says, can you come and do a clinic? And then Brett just jumps up and says My Turn!

Warwick: (37:18)
That's that's, that's amazing. Um, I might ask you some of these questions I have here, uh, just cause I think, I think some of your answers will be pretty amazing. So do you have, uh, a book that you recommend the most to people or a favorite book to read? Not, not one. You feel that everyone needs to, uh, sorry, not your favorite book to read, but one you feel everybody should read. You have, do you ever have like a book suggestion to people

Tristan: (37:45)
Actually, in most recent times I'm heavily influenced or feed off my father in law who is a visual optometrist. Um, and the correlation between the work he's doing with humans and what I'm trying to understand about horses is getting more and more on one line. Um, and he gave me a book called, um, psycho behavioral, visual enhancement by Albert Shankman.

Warwick: (38:16)
And so the name of the book is what?

Tristan: (38:18)
psycho behavioral visual enhancement.

Warwick: (38:24)
Why does that not surprise me? That you've just recommended a book called psycho behavioral visual enhancement. So your father in law is a visual optometrist. Yeah. What does a visual optometrist do?

Tristan: (38:36)
Say for instance, you have, um, he's the opposite of an eye surgeon. He is very much connected with, um, your, your visual system being the system where you absorb the most input information and it affects you mentally, emotionally, physically it's, whether you're in balance or not. Um, if you have a visual problem, it's a brain problem, not an eye problem. The coordination between your eyes is helping a lot of children with, um, diagnosed with autism, ADHD, um, children that need to have a pill to go to school, people with migraines, people with dizziness, people that can't sleep. He deals with high performance athletes, tennis players, they all can serve at a hundred and whatever kilometers an hour, the ones that have a fast visual system that are trained to be able to dictate where the ball is going to be within the space, depending on the other players, body language, and trajectory of the ball, all those measurements can be made to your visual system. So he's giving athletes this ability to have amazing speed through their visual system.

Warwick: (39:56)
I told you he's the most fascinating person I've ever talked to. That's crazy. That's okay. Cool. Great book. Um,

Tristan: (40:04)
Because of my father in law, either by the way, sorry, I didn't marry my wife because of my father in law. Even, even though he's an interesting guy, it's not, it was not the reason I just went

Warwick: (40:15)
And it's just an added extra just to, yeah. Okay. Um, this next question is, is, uh,

Tristan: (40:24)
That's why I, I, that book is, sorry, go ahead. The thing I got out of that book the most was to be able to, and this is what this has really given me. I'm putting myself in a different realm when I stand in front of my horses these days, um, this book in simple terms, explain to me how to consciously turn on my peripheral vision. And when you turn on your peripheral vision, it switches on all your other senses. So your hearing becomes very acute. You have a heightened awareness of the measurements of your body, your projection of yourself, your energy in, within the space, the measurement between you and the other living being, and you have this sense of all your senses are working on your own interaction within the energy that is within the space. So that when you having this awareness of being out of turn that awareness on, it's like you're having a focal vision where you're staring at somebody and you're only focused on what you're staring at.

Tristan: (41:55)
For instance, you're working with the horse, you're looking at the horse, you're looking at his body, he's looking at you, you have his attention. And then you switch on your peripheral vision where you don't have focal vision anymore. And you start to have an interaction purely through energy and the weirdness in your body and your self. And this book goes through a process of exercises of how to do that and how to acknowledge and become aware of all the senses that do turn on and how they correlate and talked to each other, to be able to optimize this state in which I think is really the language in which the animals speak the most. It is the realm in which they live to communicate to each other.

Warwick: (42:47)
It's basically being present. Yeah, very, uh, so once again, for everybody psycho behavioral

Tristan: (42:56)
Vision enhancement,

Warwick: (42:58)
Vision enhancement, um,

Tristan: (43:01)
[inaudible] Albert L Shankman

Warwick: (43:04)
Albert Shankman Holy cow. That, that, that's, that's fascinating. That sounds like it. Actually, what you described then is actually sounds a bit like what this book on shamanism is trying to get, get me to do so wow. That it sounds like turning off the whole prefrontal cortex and just like taking a step back away from all that thinking and analyzing and comparing and judging and all that stuff and just being,

Tristan: (43:34)
Taking the blue pill man.

Warwick: (43:36)
It sounds like it's taking the blue pill. You are down the rabbit hole, aren't you? Um, okay. So this next question, certain, I think I've mentioned this before, but normally I give people a whole list of questions and they get to choose which ones they want to answer. And Tristan has declined to read the list and he said, just ask me anything you want. And this one,

Tristan: (43:57)
I guess, pre rehearsal,

Warwick: (44:01)
Aw, you're just going to spit your Brett Kidding out here, are ya? This one, I think it might be hard for some people to answer. You might be able to answer it right away. I don't know. What was your biggest failure and how has it helped you?

Tristan: (44:13)
Um, self preservation, not in an instancy, like, I'm not like doing dumb shit, like lifting up an ax and hitting my leg. Um, but not having an awareness of what I'm doing to my body. Like from very young age, you know, I remember many people telling me, uh, look after yourself now you've only got one body, nothing. Yeah. Whatever. You're a bastard, I'm a fit young guy and I can do it. Um, and now that I'm hitting a young age of 42, um, I wish I'd listened and I continually don't. I just use my body as a vessel for work. Um, and therefore, I, you know, I went through a period where I was, I had some serious Back, I broke my femur and my right leg is shorter than my left. So then I went into a compensation pattern and then I had back problems, like a lot of people and a sciatica and bulging disc, and they wanted to operate.

Tristan: (45:19)
And, um, I had to, I was forced to start to pay attention and I was taking painkillers for a long time and I managed to get onto some morphine and I was addicted to that for quite some time. And I was having to take quite a lot of pills to get up and go and ride. And that was normal for me. Um, and then I met some people that sent me straight. Um, but that was my biggest overall mistake. It's not a single one event, but it's just not, you know, the age old story, just taking care of yourself. And, and, and now that I, um, con I'm still bad at it, you know, I I'm, I think it's like being an alcoholic. I can be good for a while. And then I get like on a tangent of, you know, wanting to search and work and get better and do better. And I want to take on a million things at once, and then I don't give the time to myself. And then I get to, uh, to a bad state, again, physically

Warwick: (46:27)
When we came in Tyler and I came and visited you, you were telling me a story about some sort of a doctor or something in Denmark. You went and saw

Tristan: (46:38)
That's right in Copenhagen, Buddy Diaz.

Warwick: (46:41)
And so what, what did this, cause I thought this story was fascinating if you, if you're okay to share it here, if not, just give me the shake and we can go somewhere else.

Tristan: (46:52)
Yeah, No it's a, that was an interesting experience. I'm due to actually go back there soon again. Um, but that was recommended to me by a very good friend of mine, um, a Danish girl and, uh, cheeping there and had some treatments. And she, I, she saw the state that I was in. And, uh, she said, you really have to go and see this guy you know, you're in the pressure cooker in the grind and you just pushing your body and going, going, going. Um, and yeah, I went there to Copenhagen, not knowing what I was about to experience. And I went into the building and I went into the lift and went up to the floor in which it was on the doors open thing. And then there was a whole lot of shoes stacked up in front of the elevator door. And I walked out and the big sign said that this is a grounded floor.

Tristan: (47:57)
Uh, and then the underneath in brackets, it says, this is a barefoot, uh, residence. Nobody had shoes on, took my shoes off and, uh, went up to the desk and the lady said, mr. Tucker, we've been waiting for you. I was like, Oh yeah, I'm running on time. Then sent me to the waiting room. And then there was a whole lot of people screaming and whining and yelling and yelping. And I was thinking, geez, what kind of back Cracker she sent me to. And, uh, then the lady at the desk walk past on a timely moment and says, Oh, don't worry. Everybody reacts differently.

Tristan: (48:41)
And then, and then bent the man of the hour, came around out of his office with this glowing aura around him and said, uh, Oh, it's the horse whisper - come in. And I'd sort of come into his office and you go in the office and it's a full glass, uh, sort of Panorama that you walk into. And you're looking over the city of Copenhagen. And then he sort of asked the normal questions, you know, what do you, you know, how do you feel, uh, what sort of state are you in? And he was talking about mental state. And I was directly saying, my body bloody hurts. I feel like a 60 year old, every time I get out of bed sort of thing. And then I laid down on the, on the end, he said, okay, just lay down. And then, uh, he just placed his hands on the back of my shoulders while I was laying on my back.

Tristan: (49:52)
And he said to me, you know, um, you, you have to fully let go of, um, the moments that have just happened in your life because it's going to ruin the next relationship that you're now beginning. And I just been through a divorce, I just divorced my wife and she'd moved back to Australia. And, um, I was still very, um, suspicious, you know, not convinced at that point, you know, I was going in there really sort of reserved and not a believer. And I was thinking oh yeah, right-o and, uh, and then you sort of going through the stages of, um, not really manipulation, but just sort of diagnosing a little bit, you know, and then he was using very little contact and putting me through excruciating amounts of pain, but it was almost like the pain was going out of my body, um, as he was doing it. And then he'd sort of basically reel through my life and explained to me that all the previous memory experience and emotions that you have through, life you carry with you, unless you know how to expose of them. Um, and he said, but one true gift about being a single child is you learn to talk to other things other than humans.

Tristan: (51:24)
And, uh, I dunno if it's that ability to read a person through the map that is written on their body, that puts you into, um, an emotional cause it takes you through your whole life of what's happened and things you've held onto and, you know, scarring emotionally, physically, but then he starts to touch on the emotional nerves. So talking about really letting go, becoming aware and present of the things that have happened and where you're holding those things in your body. And then he starts the process of before he does that, he goes out of the room and you have a quiet moment to yourself. And in that moment, if you're not mentally strong, you're already having a breakdown. Um, but I was still skeptical. I was being the tough guy. And, uh, but in the back of my mind, thinking gees he's got me by the balls, this guy, and then he said, come back in.

Tristan: (52:28)
And he started, you know, going with the, um, the emotional autonomy in letting go. And, uh, I was not physically crying as in, you know, howling, but there was just, the water started running from my eyes, like never before. I'd never had that amount of tears coming out of me ever. And the release of the buildup of tension, pressure, emotional baggage, whatever was just being released. Um, and I think the most interesting thing about the whole process was the three hour drive back to where we were staying, which was, Oh, no, it's on the other side from Copenhagen is the whole process of the treatment kept repeating on me in the order in which I was affected by it, um, through crashing and sleeping, to waking up to feeling the pain and the certain thoughts, certain parts of the body being shivering crying, and that it just, that cycle just kept going and going and going. That's one of the most bizarre experiences, um, I've ever had in my life, but also one of the most, um, yeah, it was like a reset. It was a real reset moment.

Warwick: (54:02)
Is there a name for that modality

Tristan: (54:05)
It's body Diaz in Copenhagen? And I only know him as Bent

Warwick: (54:11)
Dias as in D

Tristan: (54:13)
Yes. Yeah, Body Diaz I, we only ever say Bent, he does have a surname and I'm sure I'd be happy to look it up in the show. Um, but, uh, yeah, if you look at Body Diaz and Bent, there's a couple of, all of YouTube videos of few little, but it was a, it's a method actually developed by his father. His father writes, uh, in some of the things on the website that his son is got the gift far greater than he.

Warwick: (54:52)
Hmm. Wow. Um, you know, excuse me. I think I haven't had, I haven't had that experience, but I have had some experiences to where it kind of makes you feel, I don't know if it makes you feel small, but it just makes you think what else is out there? You know, we, we live such programmed lives where we get, you know, society just programs is to think a certain way. And, and some of us are lucky enough to have some experiences. I think that kind of, you know, bust that myth. And then, then you kind of like open to whatever. Like I, at some, to me, I think things open up because like you said, you were kind of skeptical at the start of that. You know, now I am.

Tristan: (55:48)
Yeah. I mean, definitely I immediately started to want to be able to have this effect on the analysis. I wanted to, you know, learn that and be able to, you know, that's where my tension release points came from. I started myself again and I went back to my physio, physio, and I talked about this technique with her. And, and, uh, I started practicing analysis. I started trying to get the same physical signs in their body as what I was having in mind and being able to read them like a map, you know, that hold them up. They really hold their previous memories in their body. It's written right across them on every horse. And it's, it's difficult. It's a difficult place to be, and it can be, it's difficult. That's why I talk about that young horse show. Um, you have to have the blinkers on, if you read everyone's story, that's written across their body. Yeah. It's not a nice thing to see.

Warwick: (56:52)
Have you ever seen a TV series called true blood? Nope. It was a, I don't know. It came out probably 12, 14 years ago when they started making really good dramas, you know, like Showtime and HBO and stuff like that. But it was basically about there's vampires and they've always stayed out of sight for years because they need us for their food supply. And so if we find out there's vampires, we'll start killing them. Well, someone comes up with this bottled, fake human blood. So now you can go to the, go to the bottle shop and go in and get a six pack of a positive or whatever. So the vampires and are living out amongst us, you know, and there's a girl, um, in this show and it's, she's actually New Zealand, kiwi actress named Anna penguin, I think her name is, um, she plays a girl named Sookie Stackhouse And, um, she can actually hear everybody's thoughts and she's a very attractive blonde girl. Um, and she can hear everybody's thoughts. So can you imagine being a woman, an attractive woman who you, you know, you're in the supermarket and you bend over to pick up some groceries or whatever, and the man standing behind you, you can hear what he's thinking. Can you imagine what that would be like? And so

Tristan: (58:16)
I think close to an attractive woman and thought I hope she can't hear

Warwick: (58:21)
Yeah. And so, um, in this, you know, apparently vampires can't see themselves in the mirror. Well, they also, they don't have those thoughts. So she ends up getting this vampire fella as a boyfriend because it's the only man she can be anywhere near who she cannot tell. She cannot hear his thoughts. And, um, I was at a horse expo in LA a couple of years ago. And I was talking to a lady who follows my stuff and she is bit of an intuitive like that with horses. And she works with a guy and he does it with dogs. Doesn't do it with horses. And he was telling me, he does this sort of, whatever you call it with, with dogs. And they were standing facing them. We're in a big trade show hall. And they were facing me. And we were having a conversation for 10 or 15 minutes. And all of a sudden this guy grasps his neck and he kind of feels his neck. Like there's something on his neck. And he feels his neck. He, he kind of turns and looks around the room and scans the room. And finally, he looks way over there and there's, someone's leading a dog way over. Like it was behind him. He didn't ever see the person until he turned around and he gets, Oh, that horse, that dog doesn't need a choke collar.

Warwick: (59:38)
This dog was behind him in a crowd of people where he didn't see him at all. And he felt something and he turned around and looked in this, this fellow was leading the dog with a choke chain on it or a prong collar or one of those things, you know? And he felt that was the weirdest thing.

Tristan: (59:53)
Yeah. That's next level intuition isn't it?

Warwick: (59:55)
Yeah. And I think that's, but that's kind of what you're, um, that's kind of what you're on about. There's a lady here in California named, um, what is her name? I know her name quite easily. She's got a book here somewhere I should be able to see. But anyway, she's a, um, Kerri Lake is a name and she's an animal communicator, but she doesn't do it for you. She actually teaches people how to do it themselves because she said, it's, it's something we could all do at some point in time in our lives, before it got drummed out of us, you know, cultured out of us by society or whatever. And she says, I'm not teaching you anything. I'm just helping you remember. And the first thing she does in those workshops and stuff is start to get you back in your own body, because that's like your sounding board. It's kind of like when I talked about the shamanism thing about going and sitting outside and being aware of your own body and then start to observe things and then see if you can feel what you're observing in your, in your body sort of thing. And I think it sounds like you're a kind of working on that stuff with the horses.

Tristan: (01:01:03)
Yeah. For me, it's always about self knowledge and self improvement. And I think the more you see your projections of yourself, the more you learn about everything else around you,

Warwick: (01:01:16)
One day, one of these days, I'm working on me first, I got to get that bit sorted and then I'll, then I'll start to get some other stuff. So this is going to be a great question for you, because, so the question is what is an unusual habit you had with something out of the ordinary you really love and from the conversations I've had with you, I would say for the most average person that includes everything. You do, everything you say. So, so what is an unusual habit you have, it's probably unusual for most people, but what's unusual for you. What do you have, do you have a habit that you think people would think is unusual?

Tristan: (01:01:51)
Um, I, well, it's not really that unusual, but I probably say it because the guys around the stable here are aware of it. There's a certain time of the year during winter. I go out early, just in my, a pajama bottoms, so nothing or just a tee shirt and feel the need to walk in my bare feet to the stable. And I go, and I say to the guys, how you going? And I talk to the horses and everything. And I sort of wait until I feel like that starts to get uncomfortable. And then I get highly active. And then I, maybe I run, you know, to the field. And I have a look at the field and I run to the outdoor arena to see if the, um, how the surface is, if I need to grate the arena. First, I ran to the paddock, see what horses are out, running into the stable, make the list.

Tristan: (01:02:41)
And I run in the house and then I chill out and, uh, have the cup of tea in the morning and the breakfast. And that's not something I do because I made a plan for it. I did the 5:00 AM club for a little while. And you know, I went through that process of waking up drinking water, do the physical exercise, get your body started up, write your daily plan, yearly plan, life plan, and then absorb something in 20 minutes that is useful knowledge. And then you eat and then your body's totally clear and ready to absorb what you've eaten and you're ready for the day. That's sort of a plan, but then walking out, it's only it's. I only do it in winter. And it's just a feeling that I have that that's what I need to do at that moment.

Warwick: (01:03:29)
Why am I not surprised? What is the 5:00 AM club?

Tristan: (01:03:34)
5:00 AM club it's uh, by Robert Sharman. It's, uh, it's the 5:00 AM club. You get up at five in the morning and, uh, you go through that ritual. You get up, you wake up and you get up. So the process of not pressing snooze or rolling over, or being comfortable, set the trigger, you're doing it for 60 days because after 60 days it becomes a habit. Um, and you, uh, drinking water right away. So you are meant to be kick-starting the body. And then you go out and you do a short part of physical exercise. So you're kickstarting all the organs and everything going, and then you're doing your, um, your plan. So you putting out of your head, um, all the things that you think you have to do, but you don't give yourself time to do it, or you don't have an organized plan of where you're going, what your direction is, what your vision is.

Tristan: (01:04:30)
If you're mapping your compass is pointed in the right direction to get there. So the unconscious part of your brain that says that you're modeled or unorganized. So you go through that process to get that settled in your head. And then that clears your mind to focus and be totally present on something you really want to learn or absorb. And so then you do the reading part or the watching a video or practicing something, meditating, whatever it is you want to really, that you're mastering at that moment might be learning to sing, play guitar, whatever it might be, and then you eat. Um, so in the pod, the idea is that you've put those things behind you and then you're really present when you eat. You don't have to think then your body can really absorb what you've eaten. And then when you go out to the day's work, you are ready to go. And, uh, it's the calculating of hours from 5:00 AM. So all the people that are normally sleeping till seven and the calculation of what that means in a month, a year, 10 years, how many more living hours you get?

Warwick: (01:05:39)
Wow, we're learning also at the stuff here. So you're talking about the, the grounding thing before, uh, my wife and I actually have a grounding sheet on our bed. So it's, you know, it's about three foot wide and meter wide, and it goes across the bed and has a wire in it. And that wire runs across the floor, out the window into, uh, into a, a, a stake in the ground. And just this year I started, uh, making a daily practice of grounding to where you go outside and walk around with, with no shoes on. And it's funny when you first start doing it. Oh good. After a few days, you kind of like you were as a kid, you know, you ran around in the thistles or the bindies or whatever, and no shoes on.

Tristan: (01:06:24)
Yeah.

Warwick: (01:06:25)
Yeah. And I dunno, it wasn't long enough for me. It wasn't long enough to build calluses. It's just, I don't think your mind is focused on, Oh, is something in a poke in my foot or whatever, you know, it's but yeah, I think that the grounding things definitely

Tristan: (01:06:39)
It's the wilderness man, not Bear Grills, it's the other guy that walks around barefooted all the time, went to Iceland and, uh,

Warwick: (01:06:45)
Oh, Wim Hoff.

Tristan: (01:06:49)
No, he's just a wilderness man. And he's always, he's on the survival shows as one of the experts. And he walks around with bare feet. What is his name? He also thinks, speaks about the process of being grounded and conditioning, your feet to absorbing the earth, those sort of things, but all the other full on wilderness guys, survival guys think he's crazy. And you're going into the Amazon and places like that with no shoes on, you're a total nut case, but, uh, this guy is doing it all without you. So it's about exactly that, that he's not thinking, Oh, I might get myself a cut on my foot, you know? Right.

Warwick: (01:07:35)
Fascinating. So what other good questions have I got here? Forget the questions for a minute. Um, tell me, you've have you, you've got to compete. So Europe, you know, it's not like Australia to where you can drive six hours and you're still in the same state. You're in another country. Have you competed in a lot of different countries?

Tristan: (01:07:56)
Yeah. I've, we've been all over the place. The horses take us in a lot of different places. My wife and I, with one particular horse of hers, we at one point had decided that we would go to all the best destinations if we could get a chance. And, uh, it was in the height of a lot of the world cup shows interested in either clinic demonstration or a Brett Kidding. And then I used to trade it. So I would trade a position or a spot and my wife is riding for the Netherlands. So it's one of the top two countries in the world. So, and if there's only two spots in a world cup, those spots are taken pretty quickly unless you're the best rider in the country. So she would always get an invitational. And so that took us to, to all corners. Really, we had some really amazing, uh, times going to a guitar and, uh, being invited to go there and compete on a Oasis in the middle of the desert with a huge air conditioned stadium covered stadium with unbelievable facilities in an unbelievable city in Doha.

Warwick: (01:09:14)
Is that the place you were telling me about where the sheik stopped the whole show? Cause he wanted to show someone his horse.

Tristan: (01:09:20)
That's right. That's right.

Warwick: (01:09:21)
Tell us about that. That was hysterical.

Tristan: (01:09:24)
Yeah. So we're there, um, the Grand Prix had started, we then there'd been two or three competitors. And, uh, so, you know, for a dressage rider to compete at that sort of international show and quite some prize money up for grabs, they've got a pretty tight regime and everybody's pretty prickly on, you know, the preparation of their horse and counting down to the last 10 seconds when they have to go in. So the horse is peaking at the right moment, it's a sort of a process for a lot of dressage riders, too, you know, as part of their preparation and, you know, halfway through, the sheik who owns the place, Alisha cab, he came in and he had a friend and I was watching the jumping earlier on and I saw all the Hummers and the limousines and all the red Ferrari's and yellow Ferrari sort of following up beyond this whole sort of convoy of cars pulled up and all that, all the, uh, sheik in their silks walked out and I said, Oh, it's a bit of a show going on here.

Tristan: (01:10:32)
They must be here to watch the jumpers. And, uh, and then the grand prix started. And then, yeah, as I say, half way through the FEI stewards came out and said, no, you've got to stop. You can't go in the arena. And of course all the dressage riders started complaining. And um, I said, yeah, but, uh, it's the sheik and he owns the place. So we basically got to do what he says. And uh, so we got wind that he was bringing a horse in. And so I ran down under the tunnel into the arena as to that, but to see this. So here he is in the main arena, he brings one of these Arabian stallions in mind you have got a full dressage set up with live big screen and live scoring so that you've got the digital screens around the outside of the arena.

Tristan: (01:11:25)
The judges boxes, the flowers, the whole deal. And he comes in with a couple of his mates and his kids, and they let this Arab free. And this Arabs like running around and around and the FEI stewards are running towards the gate, waving their arms, thinking it's going to run out. And he standing in the middle of proudest fun showing his mate his prized Arabian stallion. And everyone's complaining thinking, Oh God, you know, the thing's going to jump into the computer screens or, you know, wreck the prop plan. So knock the dressage fence down or something like that. And of course it's an Arab, so it's athletic and careful with itself and highly intelligent. And you can turn on a dime and, you know, super athletic. And then he's, it's showing itself off with its tail in the air trotting extended down the long side in the dressage arena, doesn't stop at the end, jumps over that and then gets into full Gallop, does a full lap around the outside.

Tristan: (01:12:30)
And so everyone's in panic thinking now, God, these bloody stupid apps, I'm not going to be able to catch this horse now. And then the sheik sort of steps into the middle of the arena at X and does this sort of very middle Eastern whistle and this Arab just turns and trots right up to him. And he just sort of pets it on the head. And then he lifts his little boy up and his little boy pets the horse on the head. And then the groom and his Ninja outfit clip the halter on and walked him out. And that was it. And then the show went on.

Warwick: (01:13:02)
That's crazy. And so you said that place was like an Oasis in the middle of the desert, like it's, there's nothing out there. And then there's this amazing facility in the middle of nowhere.

Tristan: (01:13:11)
Yeah. You sorta drive out and there's within sort of few hundred meters, there's a buildings sort of erode into the sand and then you've got a whole lot of nothing. And then you come quite some drive 45 minutes or something into the city. And before that, there's sort of some guys selling, uh, herbs and sort of garages with, you know, different kind of old school tradesmen. And then you get into the city that you stay in like a typical middle Eastern city, you know, a huge buildings and everything, glass and marble and the whole deal. Um, but yeah, you take quite some drive out and all of a sudden this, this stable complex where the grass is green is green and white fences. And yeah, it's an amazing, amazing complex.

Warwick: (01:14:07)
Sounds like it. That sounds like quite one of those trips that you, uh, you know, money can't buy sort of thing. Things just just happen. Yeah.

Tristan: (01:14:17)
Yeah, absolutely.

Warwick: (01:14:19)
You know, after we, after we saw you in Holland last year, we went from Holland. We went to Morocco for a week and um, spent a week, uh, staying actually in the British ambassador's residence there and getting shown her in Morocco. And he was another one of those things like you, you just, you just can't go to the travel agent and say, I want to buy that experience. It's not a, it's not for sale. It just, they just, those opportunities just present them, present themselves to us. And I don't know what you got to do to have that present itself to you, but it's an elusive little thing, but every once in a while, every once in a while that works. Okay. I'm going to get another question out of you here. Um, this will be an interesting one. Where do you go, what do you do to relieve stress or recharge your batteries? If it's something you haven't told us about, like your Nudie round in the middle of winter to go,

Tristan: (01:15:14)
I feel grounded and put it like that. We'll be getting emails of interns wanting to come in to mean that we, uh, yeah. What else, what am I doing? You know, recent times I, um, I take a trip to, uh, Austria, with a friend of mine. We go, uh, sort of off grid for awhile into a friend of ours up there, husband and wife, and they're living on the mountain, you sort of growing root root vegetables in the spring and the summer, and basically living off the deer and the gams sham where it is up there. Um, it's right on the border of Italy. So he's getting Jesus from the Italian sort of just over the other side of the Hill and, um, you know, set these sort of pushing close to 80 or something. Now, you know, we drive up in the, they have a beautiful, a cabin on the river and then we sort of head up the mountain.

Tristan: (01:16:19)
We have a good feed that night and then, uh, sit around and we head up the mountain the next morning and sappy and his wife both, uh, speak a very broad Austrian German dialect. It's a kind of German Austrian, but it's a very broad sort of Austrian accent. So I don't understand a word and he doesn't understand a word that I'm saying my travel companion, my, my, um, Burt Burt is my, um, Sam Gamgee, he's sort of my adventurous buddy where we sort of go to, uh, places where we can unwind and recharge. And he likes to be off grid quite a lot, actually doesn't ever really get on grid. So, uh, I like hanging out with him. He can talk a little bit of German, but most of the things go also pops these vocabulary. So we head up the mountain and now it's he's.

Tristan: (01:17:23)
There with his dog Napoleon, and Napoleon's now this wise sort of a German hunting dog with a silky Brown coat sort of dog. You just want to pet all the time. Cause he seems so healthy and wise and you always sort of looks back down the Hill, like a couple of bloody repeats again, and says happy sort of casually walking up the mountain, which is getting, you know, to sort of couple of thousand meters above and we're at the top in parts tippy sort of making his own wooden bridges in which when you look down it's blue and when you look up it's blue and he's sort of heading off up the mountain and with two young backs trying to keep up with him and he's walking, like he used to just on the sidewalk and went sort of scrambling, letting rubble fall behind us on the way up.

Tristan: (01:18:19)
And, uh, and yeah, we get up to the top cabin and then he's a man with very, um, sort of concrete rituals and you've got the mountain water coming down, running into a log that he's carved out himself. And he always eats an orange stops, need to know it when we get to the cabin, sits down, peels his orange and then starts telling stories. Um, and he's yeah, this in the beginning, you're sort of trying to be polite and, you know, get the gist of what he's saying. And then after a few days, you know, you'd be walking along the cliff and he'd sort of stop and give a signal of two fingers through the throat. Like don't walk there, you're, you'll die sort of thing. Like, alright, I got that bit. And uh, but then you sort of, you test it, you know, you find, you see where your limits are in a place like that.

Tristan: (01:19:15)
There's no safety harness, There's no, you've got a man that knows the mountain and he's environment and he's home like the back of his hand. And you go up there on your own accord. And if you fall off the mountain and die, that's your deal? You know? So you, you kind of tested you, you know, where your limits are and that set sense of achievement and you're breathing fresh air and drinking mountain water. And then there's also this camaraderie and this level of communication where you come back to the cabin at night and CEP is telling stories and he's laughing and your laughing. And after a few days, you'll find yourself in this interaction on a level of understanding that is deeper than most of the conversations you have in daily life. Yet you don't know the single word of the lingo, you know, and that's of, yeah. Let me feel that it's not about the words a lot of the time, you know, it's about the expression and the feeling and the emotion and the intent, how you feel about what you're trying to portray is more important than the contents. You know what you're saying? But yeah, that's a really good place to be, not just to be off the grid and no phones and mountain air and water, and just being totally present all the time. One. So you don't die in two, so you don't miss one of these jokes in German.

Warwick: (01:20:45)
And so you do that once a year. ?

Tristan: (01:20:48)
Yeah, yeah. Drama best we go again this year in November.

Warwick: (01:20:54)
Really. And you are, you said you're going back to Denmark soon for the doctor, whatever his name is, Buddy Diaz. Bent. Have you only ever been there once?

Tristan: (01:21:05)
Yeah. I've only been the once.

Warwick: (01:21:08)
And so how do you feel about going back excited about that?

Tristan: (01:21:11)
Yeah. Excited and nervous. Nervous because, um, of the revealing, you know, of where you are and uh, what sort of baggage you've picked up along the way. I Mean when I was renting, I could sort of be in a house for a month and then go to move out and think, geez, I collect all this shit already.

Warwick: (01:21:31)
Right? Yeah. You know, we've got a, Robyn and I have a friend who is a, she's a therapist and she does equine assisted therapy. You know, I, I see a therapist and it's not that big a deal to me, but I went over there once and her name's Beth. I went over there once and she wanted to do something with me and the horses and it scared the shit out of me because I can't hide it from them. You know what I mean? Like you go to the therapist, you need to tell him what you want to tell him. But having this, it was kind of like the first time I ever used an animal communicator with a horse, I'm like, what if he doesn't like me?

Tristan: (01:22:15)
What if he doesn't like men,

Warwick: (01:22:20)
Oh, you know what, if he doesn't like me or what if he doesn't like what I do with him? You know, that's that, uh, I I'm, I'm be more scared of that than I would have someone telling me what they think of me, you know, your horse or your dog or something telling you what they think of you. So, yeah. So that'll be interesting going back there.

Tristan: (01:22:39)
That's very insulting. Isn't it? When you walk to someone's property and the dog rejects you, like the first thing you want is that the dog comes up and he sniffs your hand and he likes you. And then when you turn up at a property, when you get rejected by somebody's dog, it's not a good feeling.

Warwick: (01:22:56)
I'm thinking I'm getting better at that these days. I think, uh, think I'm less judgmental of, of, of me now. And so, you know, if a horse or a dog or whatever says, I don't particular like you, I tend to think, okay, that's valuable information. I'll yeah. I'll take that. I'm not, I, don't kind of like, you're an idiot or, you know, the dogs are needier and I'm an idiot. Yeah. I'm probably better at hearing that from an animal these days. I'm trying to think of, is there any other questions here that would be good for you to spit out? What do you feel your true purpose in the world is? Um,

Tristan: (01:23:36)
That's a good question.

Warwick: (01:23:41)
Springs to mind, you can let that one go for a minute if you want, but I'll let you.

Tristan: (01:23:46)
Yeah. But I think the path that I'm on is, is, is I'm really trying to create communities and, uh, big public spaces where people feel free to feel it's okay, that you've done something wrong with the horse. You know, that feeling like everybody's there to try their best. No one's going out to do harm. You know, everybody's where they're at and it is what it is. And, you know, if we can share as much knowledge as possible about each other and how we interact and how we behave and how we can find the best possible way in which we can behave between each other and towards our horses. Um, you know, it's a cliche, but it's to, you know, to give some awareness through my own experience of how is this kind of a better life.

Warwick: (01:24:46)
Yeah. I really think that that whole vulnerability thing that, you know, we all think that if you admit how you really feel that people will judge you, but what you tend to find is when you admit how you really feel able to get like, yeah, me too. Yeah. I, you know, and I think your Brett Kidding character has done that to where a lot of the comments that I've read on like the dressage, you know, the dressage one you've done is people go, I thought it was only me that felt like that. You know what I mean? Here is here's the guy who can do all this stuff and he's, you know, he didn't just make it up. It wasn't like someone told you that's the script. I mean, you, you're kind of saying the things you're feeling. And I really think when you're in, I don't know a little bit of the public eye, like maybe like you and I are a little bit, people tend to think you're something different than they are. You, you possess some sort of super power or whatever. And when you really let them know that you have all the same insecurities and concerns and worries, and self doubt and self judgment and all those things that eats everybody alive. I think, um, I think that in sharing that is, is really a gift to a lot of people.

Tristan: (01:26:10)
Yeah. And I think there's a real art in breaking boundaries of possibility. And I try to do that a lot in my, on the live events is we try to set up a process through the clinic that people can let go of their preconceived ideas or let go of their shield or that barrier in which they're going to put up because they don't feel adequate or they don't feel they're on the level of maybe the person that's going to present or the people that will be around them. Um, and I think if you can break those barriers in the beginning and just let people feel that it's about absorbing new things that give you energy about the thing you love, that is the same the world over, you know, for everybody in every place and space. And, uh, that is my core focus on my clinics and live events.

Tristan: (01:27:04)
And Brett absolutely helps me do that. Brett always opens the show. He's explaining blatantly that we all do dumb shit, but don't worry about it. You know, it's not here, you are not here to, to criticize that maybe a horse does something wrong or, you know, that definitely I'm not going to do everything right. Um, and prejudice to showing that in the beginning, you know, he's knocking down the barriers and letting people laugh at themselves and they start to reflect and think, yeah, I did that too. And it just become very open and ready to absorb the new things that are exciting and give energy.

Warwick: (01:27:44)
So tell us about these in case some people listening to this don't know what a TRT live is, what is a live event? What do you do? How long is it? How long does it go for what happens there? How many people come

Tristan: (01:27:56)
Yeah. Out TRT live events is, um, uh, one day, uh, normally a four hour event. And, uh, it's a clinic where we, um, Brett's opening the show. Um, we're doing shout outs of around 3000. Um, at the moment we tried to do five countries a year and Bretts opening the show with a bit of, um, comedy that he comes up with at the time with, uh, a great trailer loading demonstration, or a great Liberty demonstration, or show some grumpy dressage movements, or even how to get on a horse correctly. He's educating the people from the beginning, straight out the gate. And then we normally do, um, a case study. So this is a horse that people just apply and, um, we'd pick one at random and, uh, I just started the horse. And so I give people an idea what it is when a horse comes in training with me and the process I go through and what my thought patterns are and how I begin to read a horse of where he's at, within environment that he's in, in the moment, sort of making people aware that we are in a big stadium and there's a big crowd.

Tristan: (01:29:07)
And what does he think of that? Who is my boss? What is he thinking? And, um, really make people get into that. So realizing where they are and what we're doing and, and to this horse, as a part of that, and we have to, as a group, let him feel that this is going to be a good experience and we can learn from him and he's going to learn from us and this whole show. And then, um, we do some giveaways and some crowd interaction. We have a lunch. And then I bring in one of my own horses and show, maybe the continuation of the, where the last horse was at, where it can possibly go. Um, and then we normally have a riding demonstration after that also with, uh, somebody I haven't seen before and they come and they tell a little bit of their story and we get an idea where the horse is at what they've come from, where their goals are.

Tristan: (01:29:56)
And then we try to teach the horse to be able to have that self-generated learning abilities and understand what the goal is of the human and how they always can believe that that can be used goal as well or needs terms. And we start to be able to have an educational moment of what it is for a horse to want to be a dressage horse. is what it's about actually generally in the clinics. And then the last one last demo is always then with my own horse and we do Q and A, um, so people get to ask those questions and we have really deep Q and A, I really open it up to the people that they can ask, whatever it is they want. It doesn't have to be even horse related. It can be about why their auntie screamed at them the week before. And, you know, the clinic is about life. It's not about horses in general. So I try to broaden that without it being philosophical and too deep and about, um, you know, it's not a life coach clinic, but it's about life. So I want people to experience that in that day.

Warwick: (01:31:07)
You know, I asked you the question earlier on, what do you feel like your purpose is? And I, and I think, you know, when I answered that question, cause I did a, I did a podcast where I answered all the questions and I told some stories about something like that, but I think that's, that's your purpose. And that's my purpose too, is to use the horses, to help people

Warwick: (01:31:40)
View life possibly from a different lens. And then which enables you to experience life from a bit of a different lens. And I think that's where we're lucky with the horses is people are passionate about their horses. And I know people who have made some huge personal changes in order to get along with their horse. And they've said, Oh, it's helped me so much with my workmates and my boss and my husband and my kids or whatever. But the thing is they wouldn't have done the work for their boss or their work mates or for their husband or for their kids, but I'll do it for the horse. You know what I mean? And I, and I, I really think that's one of the gifts of, of being involved with the horses is, is people are passionate about it. And for the most part prepared to do whatever it takes to get it to work.

Warwick: (01:32:39)
And as you probably know, I think most of the time it's the people having to change something about themselves. I had an email yesterday and I'm sure you'd get them all the time where, Oh, my horse used to do this and this and this and this, you know, he used to rear and he bucked and he bolt and he spook it in your bit and he wouldn't pick up his hind feet. Anyway, I've done all these things that you said, and now he's completely different. It was like the horse isn't completely different, how you are perceiving the things he does and how you interact with him is different. And so if you really think about it, you were the one that was causing him to rear and buck and bolt and whatever, because if he wanted to rear and buck and bolt, whatever, he'd still be doing it, you know, it, wasn't his idea to do that. And I, yeah, I just think that's, um, and, and it's quite a, um, it's not, I'm not saying it's a burden, but when you really think about it, it's, it's quite a, it's not a heavy load to carry, but it is quite a, uh, let's say it's quite a privilege to be in a position to where you can influence people in that way.

Tristan: (01:33:49)
Yeah. But it's also the thing that excites me the most about training horses is that working with people and getting to see people self-improve, self-improvement, self-development, you know, that's people that are really excited about that. If I get in a room with people that are excited about self improvement, self awareness, self knowledge, I mean, that just gets me like a nutcase.

Warwick: (01:34:22)
Yeah. I think I'm pretty lucky because most of the people that come to my clinics these days are of that, that bent. And you get, I dunno, it's like that there's like a communal energy, you know, cause I get maybe 50 to 100 spectators at some of these clinics. And every once in a while you get one where everybody's on the same page. And it's like, I don't know. It just feels like walking into one of those big, old cathedrals in Europe, somewhere where you walk in there and there's you just get the energy of the last, you know, 800 years of people going in there and praying or whatever. I don't know. But there's just this communal energy that you tend to, I tend not to get it at horse expos is half the people at the horse expo come to see you mess up. You know what I mean? Or they're, uh, you know, they want, they want you to tell them what they want to hear, not necessarily what you've got to tell them. And so I feel like the energy's a bit different there, but some of the clinics,

Tristan: (01:35:16)
Or they're flooded at the expos flooded with lots of different ideas and perspectives and products and innovation and yeah.

Warwick: (01:35:24)
You know, it's funny a minute ago you said that, uh, when you do the TRT lives and you have a, you have a case study, one that you picked at random, a friend of mine from Australia, you may know him, maybe you don't, but he lived kind of down in the area you're from, um, he trains reining horses and he used, there used to be a very, very big name trainer go to Australia to do a demo. And he would always rent a horse off my friend because he needed a horse that would change leads. And so what he would do in this, this big name trainer in this demo would come in on this horse and ride it poorly and act like it can't change leads. And then in the space of an hour. He would get this horse doing a perfect flying lead change.

Tristan: (01:36:19)
It's like when I prepared, I prepared earlier that that

Warwick: (01:36:28)
What it is, but that's never, doing something like that has never even occurred to me. It's like, you know, it's never, uh, I just, I just get blown away every time. I think of that story

Tristan: (01:36:43)
For me in those, especially, um, when I do the clinics for some of the federations, especially in Germany is they also have a very strong preconceived idea about what should happen in this clinic, what he should say the way he should say it should come from the handbook. And if it doesn't, it's no good. You know, you didn't know any name

Warwick: (01:37:08)
Even to this day. You have that. You still have that?

Tristan: (01:37:11)
Yeah. Yeah. And then when you get the horse, the excitement is you see the horse and you get to show, you see it, you see the horse, you get to show exactly what is going on. Exactly what's going on in and the horse is going to say it out loud and you're only going to put the microphone next to him and let him speak through your voice. And it's totally not what they expect to see. So the expectation that you are going to make this horse that is a noise sensitive, you're going to stand on his back and cracks and whips and make him not, not that you'd ever be expected to do that in Germany, but, um, you know, the expectation of what they think you should do. And then you have to, you know, think to try and fake or make that. But the excitement of actually seeing how the horse is, and then revealing that to them and them saying, well, our pre-conceived idea was that a lot of bullshit, because this is the real deal. Look at this horse and the change that he's had and what he actually is screaming for. And the reality is written on the wall. I mean, that's the exciting part,

Warwick: (01:38:28)
How much cognitive dissonance do you get from some of them like, do you, do you get some of them? And like, I don't care what happened. It isn't in the handbook. And so it's not right. Or are they mostly like, I can't believe what I just saw

Tristan: (01:38:41)
Mostly, but you, there are. I mean, it is a hard, it's a hard industry overall with horses, but to be a rider and come through the German riding education and try to make a living and to work your ass off in that way, to make a stable and run a stable for someone to come and say that everything you learned, maybe not exactly the right thing. People get really defensive. And not that you're saying that directly, you know, you're not coming out and going, you're an idiot. What the hell are you doing? You know, you just explaining how the horse is and how he's thinking. And sometimes it's difficult for them through their experience and through the environment, their product of the environment that they it's difficult for them to say, well, how do I do that? How do I even comprehend that? Because I haven't been introduced to that before I'm lunging them and I'm getting on and I'm riding them and teaching them to be in a frame and learn what a half halt is and, you know, to hold on to them.

Tristan: (01:39:58)
And, um, that's difficult. And I, in the beginning, I used to really see the people that were rejecting it and I'd go after them a bit, you know, like really try to get them to understand. And, and, and now I think I'm more empathetic towards them. I really feel for those guys that, um, have everything on the line and it's really fragile for them to run a business and maybe they don't get a lot of training horses and maybe it's difficult for them to compete in, unless you're out competing and winning in Germany, it's difficult to have a successful training, stable, or a selling stable. It's tough. And then after a while, you know, when you're getting into your forties and you've ridden in that military way, and you've got non young horses and your body's beaten up and you, you know, haven't been that successful and you don't have many people coming in having lessons with you.

Tristan: (01:41:01)
Yeah. It's a, I think of it as a men's mental health issue, you know, it's, it's, it's hard. Some guys are having it tough and the guys more than the girls. Cause I think the girls can sort of adapt and think, well, you know, pride, doesn't get so much in the way I think for some of the girls, but for the guys, I think it's pretty, pretty tough. A lot of riders out there that are struggling with it a bit. And then that's hard when someone comes along and you know, the road, when you have to do it for you turn things, she had been going up the wrong road for a long time and I've got to trudge back and that's, that can be a tough deal. So in the clinics, I, I then try to be really empathetic. And I just explain, try to, to get it across that it's just something you can absorb. If you're open to it, you can begin to change or have a new idea or practice or try something different that might help you or bring you into another path.

Warwick: (01:42:06)
Yeah. I think, I think if you've had one of those, u-turns in life to where you, but you know, like I like to call it a, a sixth sense moment. You ever see the movie, the sixth sense with Bruce Willis? You know, when all of a sudden you realize he's dead, then you go hang on. He was dead five minutes ago. And then you start thinking and you look back at everything else in the movie completely differently than you saw it in the first place. Um, I think once you've had one of those, then it really helps you be empathetic to other people who haven't had one because you kind of go, yeah, I know exactly where you're at right now. Your truth is your truth. And you are convinced that's your truth because you haven't had that sixth sense moment. You haven't had that U-turn and once you have that U-turn then all the rest of the u-turns after that or, um,

Tristan: (01:42:58)
Yeah, let's go, uh, when you get into clinic and you, and someone is a bit like some of the, some, even some of the old trainers that you get a sense that they feel times are changing, that was not in their hay-day. And they need to, sometimes I've had trying to stand up in front of everybody and just sort of say, yeah, well, that's really good and nice, but what if, um, you know, you get a horse in the ring and he decides he doesn't want to go up the center line. Do you just pat him and be nice to him? And, uh, you know, there, he has to respect the leg and, uh, or not, or am I stupid? You know but he sort of had, you know, almost state his presence again, like shit, I'm losing rank here almost. They stop believing in him. Like they might leave this institution.

Tristan: (01:43:59)
But, um, and, and, and I, then I don't try to educate, I don't try to, to give more info. I only treat it with empathy. I only understand, I understand why you just stood up and said all that stuff and understand that it's where you're at and where you, what brought you to that point. I understand why you have to do that. You know, and a lot of people that have been with me in the clinics and I, that bloody idiot, like everyone was saying, why that was he standing up and acting like a big jerk and blah, blah, blah. I said, yeah, you, and I mean, you have to understand why, you know, and then if you can inject some positivity in that moment and then get him to feel different about the situation, it's not about a competition. It's not about proving yourself or feeling that you have worth or, or status.

Tristan: (01:44:59)
Um, because it's a lot about ranking there, you know, comes from the, it's still there, you know, German, military, it's still it's. Yeah. It's of course it's unfair to generalize. It's not that it's like that everywhere, but that's the vibe still that you get some times I also get social media and also I need a message the other day that there was some people having a bit of an argument there on social. And, uh, people were sending me messages like, Oh, should you take it off? They really slandering each other and doing a blah, you know, and I sorta said, but that's also reality. You know, they're giving an expression of themselves to the world. And I said, you know, uh, quite often, if I get those sorts of comments, I look for that a bit. Now, you know, you, you, and you would have had the same, you get a lot of posts and people go, you're amazing. And you're wonderful. And or what a super isn't so great to see. And you're a gift to the horse world. And it's a well done Bravo, but what do you say to that is thanks.

Tristan: (01:46:17)
And I bet if someone has a genuine, you know, or not even genuine, they feel that they need to use social media to heal another part of their life, um, or something that is missing or a certain frustration or whatever it might be. Um, I treat that, I look for that, you know, I look for that opportunity to be able to inject some positivity. You know, sometimes I get some negative comments and, and then I, I go and I look at that person's profile and then send them a message, or I write below it that comment, geez, you look good on Pepe the other day in that photo. And then I might get a private message back that says, Oh, you know, I said that comment the other day. Not that I'm claiming to be an expert or anything, but, you know, I just want to learn and blah blah blah. And immediately you inject a bit that positivity and show a bit of kindness to somebody that direct reflection or the next time they come to a certain situation where they're feeling frustrated. They can maybe have an effect to make themselves feel better by creating that feeling or sensation within themselves again. So

Warwick: (01:47:30)
One minute, one hour and 45 minutes into the podcast, you get the nugget that that's the meaning of life right there. That's, that's awesome to arrive at that point right there. I think that's your purpose in life, right there. Cause most people never ever get to the, to the point where you just said right then is. And I think, I think we're, we're blessed in the fact that we, uh, we're in the public eye, we've chosen to be in the public eye, you know, whatever. But we, we have, we get given those situations, like you just talked about right there and we get to make that choice. Do we get, you know, the way to let our ego get in the way and you argue back you're wrong, whatever. Or do you have some compassion and some empathy for them? And, and like you said, you know, I struggle with it. But, um, the times when I am developed enough to where I can actually come back with some empathy and compassion, you always get the apology. Like, I'm sorry, I came off like that. But, you know, whereas if you come back and you go, you're an idiot or don't tell me what to do or whatever, you'll always just get more negative energy.

Tristan: (01:48:58)
Yeah, yeah. In that way, you're of course just injecting more of the same right into that space. But I always find the deeper you go into it and you really find out the why, um, the, uh, the why is often always very pure, you know, it's, it's, it's quite often not, uh, you know, vindictiveness or jealousy or why is that it come, it stems from somewhere. And I think, you know, if people are really understanding about the why, and sometimes you don't get to know the why, and then it's easier also to let it go. Maybe I don't know why, so, you know, we'll let that one go. I don't know why she said that, you know?

Warwick: (01:49:59)
Yeah. So I had been going to ask you, how do you handle negativity in the public space, like in the social media space, but it sounds like that's, that's how you handle.

Tristan: (01:50:14)
Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I, I have also, you know, when you're less educated, I suppose you, uh, you also can get easily led into being defensive because you're at a time when you're, especially when you're building something for yourself and you have pride in what you're building and you're working harder on it, and you're passionate about it. Someone comes and steps a hole in it. You get defensive, of course you think, well, you, you don't understand what I run. I'm really doing. You don't understand what I, you know. Um, and I had that also at live clinics in the past. Um, you know, I'd had in the beginning, um, coming to Europe and then showing horsemanship, you know, that, that, you know, I had this thinking that I, there was a lack of horsemanship in the sports world. And, um, you know, and then I'd have people come to the clinics that had sort of got word that I was doing demos with young stallions and that at the stallion show and bringing stallions to a mare show that were sort of three years old and never been off the property.

Tristan: (01:51:34)
And I was showing how they went on the trailer and I was doing letting them down in a public place and all this one showing, trying to show wonderful teams. And, um, then I'd have someone sort of standing up and then getting to Q and A are wanting to ask a question. And then I'm probably actually having more, seen more and maybe not could get down and try and almost better than me, but also had some knowledge about other things and not what I was focusing on and sort of saying, well, you're, you know, you're also not doing this and this, and then I would get a bit like, Oh, they're not seeing what I'm actually doing and not understanding it, um, instead of sort of standing back and going well. Yeah, that's really interesting. Why do you think like that then start to ask questions of them like, Oh, how did you come across that that's really where this is.

Tristan: (01:52:33)
And then try to fit their perspective into the scenario and let people be participate, you know, clinics shouldn't be there that they come and you're the showman and they have to listen to you and be in awe of you. Um, and I would then at that time I was getting frustrated that they didn't understand it, and I really wanted them to understand, but I wasn't allowing that involvement. Um, and when I started to learn that and the power of that and the why, and really, you know, then, like you said before about, did I have less hecklers in my clinics? Or am I just perceiving it now differently? Um, you know, so it's absolutely to do with my perception and how I choose to involve it or react or respond to it.

Warwick: (01:53:31)
Yeah. I've found over the, Oh, I tell you what yesterday. There's a, there's a young girl here in America who does a lot of work with, I think with Mustangs, but she tried, you know, she's only maybe 20 and, and she is very passionate about what she does and she's now, you know, she's got herself, a truck and a trailer and she drives around and does things all over the place and she's living, living her, her best life sort of thing. And she gets some detractors. And yesterday she posted on social media here about and she screenshottedsomething that someone had said to her. And I sent her a private message. And I said, you know, I think I've learned just as much from my so-called detractors as I, you know, some people are just trolled and they just want to be negative and they're not to be listened to.

Warwick: (01:54:16)
But I said, some people are actually trying to help you and try, and, and they know something that you don't know, and you need to know it and sorting out the wheat from the chaff in that is, is a skill that you'll kind of develop over a period of time. You can't, you cannot discount every bit of negativity, but you've got to sort through it and be able to figure out is that something I should know, like you said a minute ago, you know, is that, is that a way I've not looked at that before, or you're just having a bad day and projecting it onto me, you know, and trying to sort through those two is a, I think it's a bit of a skill, but it's, I think the thing is, I think initially those sorts of people, the people that we're trying to help, but coming across negatively world, trying to educate me and stuff, I used to, you know, be argumentative with them. And now I've really got to sit and think, okay, is there, is there a message in this that I really need to, to hear? And I think for me, it was here in the same message from different people over and over. And like, you know what, there's enough of these people saying this thing about what I'm doing. Maybe I should think about that.

Tristan: (01:55:30)
Yeah. Yeah, no, it's interesting how the world of horses can take you in places physically, like you say, before that you have to yourself and realize you're in this place and takes you places mentally that you were one how you got there sometimes.

Warwick: (01:55:56)
Yes. And so, yeah, it is, it is quite the journey and, uh, um, I'm glad you've been a part of mine. We've, we've had a few chats and I, uh, always look forward to chatting with you. I think you are absolutely fascinating. And actually can't wait for all this Covid stuff to clear up. So hopefully I can get back to, uh, to Holland and spend a bit more time with you.

Tristan: (01:56:18)
Absolutely. I've got, I've got some ripper things cracking on the Barbie lately, so, um, I'd be happy to share a bit of that with you too.

Warwick: (01:56:26)
Awesome. Well, I'm looking forward to it. So are we better? We're getting close to two hours here, so we better wrap this thing up. Um, thank you so much for coming on here Tristan, it's been a, uh, an honor to have you as my guest here and I hope everybody, I'm sure everybody got a lot out of that. You know, this is all about people's journeys and you're probably on more of a journey than, than most people you're into some really interesting stuff. And I think you, the, the things that you're into, uh, um, pretty much the future of where humanity's going. So I, I thank you for your foresight and your courage to venture out there down the rabbit hole where some of us haven't gone yet.

Tristan: (01:57:10)
Cheers, mate. Thanks very much for having me. So always a pleasure.

Warwick: (01:57:13)
Thanks everybody for joining us on another episode of the journey on podcast. Join us next time and we'll have another exciting guest. Thanks for listening to the journey on podcast with Warwick Schiller. Warwick has over 650 full length training videos on his online video library at videos.warwickschiller.com. Be sure to follow Warwick on YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram, to see his latest training advice and insights.