Renee Robyn - Blending fact, fiction, and a little digital alchemy.

In this second episode of The Photography Lounge, your host Alastair Jolly sits down with Renee Robyn and discusses her recent projects, her love for travel (and food), and have a look back at the lifechanging moments that have lead Renee to become one of the worlds best-known photographers.

Coming from Alberta, Canada, the job prospects for a young Renee Robyn were very much those found in the traditional labour-based industries but a motorcycle accident and a desire to not take work away from the creatives around her, saw her follow a direction inspired by the kid who lived on video games and fantasy novels.

We will hear how Renee believes that the universe has a plan for her, forever knocking her plans off track or making her take two steps back for every one that she takes forward but ultimately leading her to a better outcome than she had initially anticipated.

Renee's SmugMug Film:
Dreams of a Digital Artist

Learn more about Renee:
Website: https://www.reneerobynphotography.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reneerobynphotography/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reneerobynphotography/

Find out all about the features SmugMug & Flickr have to offer at:
https://www.smugmug.com/
https://www.flickr.com

Follow SmugMug:
Facebook: http://facebook.com/SmugMug
Twitter: http://twitter.com/SmugMug
Instagram: http://instagram.com/smugmug
Blog: https://www.smugmug.com/lens

Follow Flickr:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/flickr/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Flickr
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/flickr/
Blog: https://blog.flickr.net

Transcript

Intro: Welcome to The Photography Lounge. Home of inspirational conversations with the world's best photographers and the leading minds from the photo industry. 

 Brought to you by SmugMug and Flickr, join me your host Alastair Jolly, as I go beyond the lens and dive deep into the stories of what inspires and motivates the photographers and creatives that we all love and admire.

Alastair Jolly: Hey folks. It's Alastair here again from SmugMug and Flickr. And on today's episode, I'm joined by one of our very own ambassadors. She is someone who's meticulous focus to detail, whether it be taking photography or many, many, many hours of Photoshop work, creates an Ethereum world that blends fact and fiction. Perhaps best described as a Fine Art Composite Artist, her work is commissioned by both commercial and private clients alike.

Her expertise in all areas of compositing and retouching means that she teaches workshops around the world and is a hugely respected educator. She's an avid traveller, who loves to explore the images of the world has to offer, but she is just at home secluded and cozied up in the cold North.

It is, of course, Renee Robyn.

Hi, Renee.

Renee Robyn: Hello. Now, I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. That was a very nice intro. Thank you. I don't think I've ever had a nicer introduction. That was quite awesome. Thank you. 

Alastair Jolly: You can take that one for your Bio 

Renee Robyn: Far more flattering than what it really feels like. 

Alastair Jolly: We've been very fortunate to know each other for maybe more years than we care to remember

Renee Robyn: Been one or two.

Alastair Jolly: Certainly, one or two. And you know we've been very honored to have you as an ambassador again for many, many years. So I'm actually struggling to know where to start with this conversation. There are so many areas we could start. And, uh, I guess, you know, we'll kind of probably jump back to the beginning, but Fine Art composite artists does that sound okay? On target? 

Renee Robyn: I don't know. I've never used the word, Fine Art. I mean, I just tell people I do commercial advertising photography, and I just kind of leave it blank to be like, what do you do? And I'm like, ah, I don't know. I mean the easiest way to describe it. And I've used this a lot over the years is, you know, someone who grew up on video games and fantasy novels and wanted to bring the world that was inside the head out. So, I've never used the word Fine Art before though. I mean, I know a lot of fine art photographers and Fine Art illustrators, and I've never considered myself among them. 

Alastair Jolly: You know, your work is incredible art, let alone fine art.

Renee Robyn: Super appreciate it.

Alastair Jolly: So, okay. So let's jump back to the beginning for those people who have been living under a rock and don't really know the story, but was this what you hope to be doing in your life? 

Renee Robyn: No, a hundred percent not. 

Alastair Jolly: You didn't grow up saying I'm going to get all these images and crazy thoughts in my head out there and make money doing it.

Renee Robyn: No, no, super not. I mean, I grew up in Alberta so that you're thing in Alberta is you grow up and you get a lot of us go to trade school. And I did go to trade school. I did lots of thing, on and off for five years. And I was actually really fun. I really enjoyed that, that career. That was technically my first one, you know, but then, you know, you work in oil field or, uh, you know, chemical industry, stuff like that.

That was definitely what I figured my life path was going to be.

Alastair Jolly:. Standard vision for Alberta

Renee Robyn: every, every part of the world has like, you know, a standard. Yeah. Like what most people are going to go do. And I was just kind of, I mean, I liked working in the trades. I liked working with my hands. I mean, I tried it, I tried out instrumentation for a little while and that wasn't really for me.

I don't know, I've just always enjoyed building and working with my hands. I always liked being strong and I liked being physically capable in that field. I was working in the trades back when, you know, there weren't a lot of women working in the trades at all. I mean, I was in trade school and there was I think one other woman. I was it, you know, for the entire program for the whole province, there was one, I'm sure 

Alastair Jolly: I am sure it was the men that were all the intimidated ones? 

Renee Robyn: but no, super not. Yeah. It was not kind. Yeah, it's changed a lot since then. I mean, it has changed a lot since then. And I was, I was part of that early push when they were trying to get more women into the trades and that push has continued and you know, now it is far more common to see a crew that's almost 50 50, depending on the trade, of course. Right. But it's not uncommon to see a female welder, female pipe fitters, electricians. So on, you know, that's just normal. 

Alastair Jolly: When I grew up in Glasgow, you know,it was ship building. Glasgow is a great ship building city and tens of thousands of men working on ships and that was the, become an apprentice.

Join a certain line, depending on what you wanted to be a welder or a fitter or whatever, you know, but that industry is almost completely gone though. It's decimated.

So that you started down that path?

Renee Robyn: Well, so here's something that's funny is that I was going through some old photo albums not too long ago.

And I found a photo album for when I was six, which is really funny. Six was strangely a very pivotal year for me as a child. Uh, so, but what I, what I found was I found, I used to take my dad's camera. My dad was a photographer and he traveled a lot in his youth. So I would take photographs. Cause I grew up on a farm.

So take pictures of the cats and pictures of the fish tank, pictures of the horses and whatever 

Alastair Jolly: You farmed cats? (laughing)

Renee Robyn: We didn't farm cats. We farmed horses, we had lots of cats. We, uh, we donated a lot of cats to the local coyote and owl population as that happens, nature and all. Yeah, that's exactly it. Yes. I would take pictures of, you know, these cats and dogs and everything else that we had.

And uh, every now and then by accident, when I was young, you know, I would get the roles developed but accidentally order say four copies of each set of roll of film. So we get back, they have these huge stacks of pictures of garbage cause I'm a six years old. Uh, and so I started taking scissors and I started cutting out the animals and I put it in really weird places.

So. I had a picture of my cat was black cat. I had, and his name was Sylvester and he was jumping off the bunk bed. And I was like, Oh, I wonder if it'd be like, if I like cut him out and I had him going into the fish tank. So there's like all these photos where like in another image, there's like one of my, another black cat you're sensing a theme here, another black cat, her name was Gina.

And, uh, you know, had four copies of this image. And so I cut out four of her and put four of them in there. You know, it was little glowing eyes. Cause the stroke went off. So, I guess compositing started much younger than I thought.

Alastair Jolly: So you have beencutting and pasting since six years old? 

Renee Robyn: Yeah, exactly. You know, so, you know, I always thought like, you know, cause I started with Photoshop on Photoshop seven, not C, C S seven, seven, uh, you know, when I was 16 and you know, I never applied it to photography back then.

It was. Yeah, learning to create textures and brushes and, you know, make your name on fire and stuff. That was a trend all back then, but it never really crossed into doing anything with photography until I was much older. So I was about 25, 24 or something like that. Nope. 23. There you go. I mathed it up.

Alastair Jolly: What was the pivotal moment that made you think this is going to be a career? 

Renee Robyn: Oh, well, yeah. So this became a career when, I mean, I love adventure sports and high action sports. Cause I'm again from Alberta and a lot of us are into that and I was riding my motorbikes at work one day and I got hit and run over.

And, you know, I'm laying there on the side of the road going. I literally took a deep breath in and out. And I was like, well, I guess this changes everything. You know, I was supposed to be walking fashion week and like two or three weeks from that day. I was working a labor job, you know? So it's like I'm lifting sixty to a hundred pounds every single day, all day.

That was the strongest I've ever been in my entire life and all my skills, I needed my legs. And, you know, they're telling me that they might be cutting mine off. And I was like, Oh crap.  

Alastair Jolly: That was a bit of a leading question. Obviously I am very aware of the story. But so at that point as you say you've got a labour career, but you're also modeling.

Renee Robyn: Yeah. Yeah. At that point I'd been modeling for 11 years. Yeah. Yeah. 

Alastair Jolly: So you took that deep breath and thought, okay, I'm still alive, but this changes everything. 

Renee Robyn: Oh, I never really thought I'm still alive. I'm like, Oh crap I am still alive. People are still like, Oh my God, you could have died. I'm like, dead is easy, man. Like living when you're like severely mangled sucks.

And I'm very fortunate. Thanks to modern science. I can walk, but I have a lot of metal in me and it's not comfortable. Got it. You know, I don't live in a wheelchair, which it easily could have been. 

Alastair Jolly: So how long were you immobilized for? 

Renee Robyn: I didn't walk for six months. It took me two years to teach myself to run again.

Yeah. So it was, it was what it was, what it was, you know? So I spent my day sitting in front of the computer, teaching myself digital art because you know, like I'm laying there going. I was in ICU at the time and I was like, okay, well I have my rent due in three weeks. I'm now out of a job, I was doing contract labor job, which was worse.

So I had no, like there's no benefits to, if I get injured, they just they're like, okay, next. So, I mean, I have to think my coworkers, there are a lot because. They pulled together some money in it when they paid for my ambulance bill, which was amazing. Like, I was a huge help at the time. Big, big shout out to those people 

Alastair Jolly: Coming from Scotland it still blows my mind that there's an ambulance bill, but let's not go into that.

Renee Robyn: Canadian ambulance bills are not like American ambulance bills. Right. So like we do have public health care, but when you don't, when you work for company without insurance, then it's like, you know, it's like 400 bucks. It's not much, but at the time, you know, It's a lot of money. I was 25. Yeah. And, you know, just like trying to get my life together, having just quit.

I had suffered ties with my previous career as a locksmith. I was like, never doing that again. Not because of the career, but just the people. 

Alastair Jolly: So real pivotal moment. That was, I'm sure it was a dark team, but you've already mentioned some, some real positives that have come out of it. People rallying around you and encouraging you.

And was there anybody who was pivotal in helping teach you at that point or are you completely self taught? 

Renee Robyn: No. So at the time I was, I was, I was taught by the internet. I went to the school of the internet. There was no creative live. There was no Phlearn. And there was no like any of the major educational platforms.

They didn't really exist. 

Alastair Jolly: So YouTube?

Renee Robyn: uh, there was YouTube. Uh, it, wasn't where I went for most of my information though. I don't remember the name of the website. It doesn't exist anymore, but it was. It was around back when I was teaching myself how to make textures 10 years earlier. And so I just went back into it and I just started going through the catalog and I just did everything, you know?

Cause I was like, if I can't get to the world, then I have to bring the world to me. The other side of it, of course was. I've been modeling for so many years. I had so many friends who were professional photographers. And I was like on top of the fact that I can't walk, uh, I don't want to compete with my friends.

Right. You know, I don't want to take photos of families and babies and weddings and stuff. Not because I wasn't interested, but also that, like, I just didn't want to compete with people who are respected and admired, you know? So it was like, well, what can I do? And I said, well, I guess I have to do stuffhat's really hard that not a lot of people are doing really. Compositing was that thing, because at the time there were digital artists, like digital illustrators, never photographers, but there weren't a lot of people doing both. It wasn't as prolific as it is now. And so, you know, I just applied myself to something that I was like, I don't really think a lot of people in my home city are doing this.

Maybe it's something that I can offer. And it just like became obsessed with it. I mean, my, my day was. I would spend eight hours a day in physio trying to figure out how to get my toes to work again. And, you know, the rest of the time was digital art. 

Alastair Jolly: Was there any escapism in there from that eight hours of pain and torture that I'm sure you were going through?

Renee Robyn: Physio was great. I had, I had like really, really great physiotherapists and, you know, I didn't really think of it as a pain. I mean, the funny thing is like one, once I was in crutches, You know, I was just like, okay, this is just life now. Like, I'll figure it out. Like I'll put, I really forced myself to not let myself fall into that pity wagon.

Uh, I mean a big part of it. Um, I was a little throwback. I was very sick, but I was also in my, uh, early twenties and I was spending some time on, uh, getting some treatment. And I remember feeling what this certain type of radiation was like for the first time. And I had a huge pity party on myself. You know, I was 19 years old and I was just miserable.

And as in so much pain I could barely see. Well, I couldn't see, all I could see was red, but then I remember that I had seen some little kids in that hospital who were never getting out and they may have never been out of the hospital. I obviously don't know their story, but they're so sick. They're never going to get out of that hospital.

And so. You know, I was at the time I was 19 and I was like, you know, what, if this is where it ends for you, I'm like, you were 19, you had a good run, pull yourself together. And so when I was run over later on, you know, there was definitely like the freak out moments of like, Oh my God and whatever else.

But like, I was, I just forced myself to like, accept like, okay, you're on crutches forever. Like you may or may not have your leg at the end of this and whatever it is, like, I can wear a backpack. You know, I got sticks. Like I can move around and if I can move around, then I can figure this out. Yeah. I don't know.

Alastair Jolly: That's an incredible story. 

Renee Robyn: Well, the biggest thing is that life moves on whether you want to move with it or not. Right? So you can either let it drag you, which is much harder. You know? Like people find that it's easier to just give up, but it isn't, everything gets harder when you give up everything gets harder.

You know, like being able to just afford food gets harder. When you give up being able to find a reason to live. It gets harder when you just give up everything is harder 

Alastair Jolly: Let's move on, let not dwell on that. So self-taught?

Renee Robyn: quote-unquote. Yeah. I mean, taught of the school of the internet, you know, and people who knew more before me actually, uh, you know, who was around, I believe was Calvin Hollywood 

 Renee Robyn:, Yes from Germany.

So he had some early, he was one of the people I think, who was doing stuff back then. And like a lot of digital illustration mixing in with photography. And his site was a site that I just devoured a lot of it was beyond me. Cause it was, you know, this beautiful illustrations. And I was like, I'm a mediocre illustrator, but I'm not on his level by any stretch.

He was one of the pages that I think I was just inhaling 

Alastair Jolly: like. Self-sourced education 

Renee Robyn: Starvation is an is an excellent motivator 

Alastair Jolly: and you've made this conscious decision to either not compete with local friends or community, go down a path that you know, quite different at that point. As you see not many people are doing it, how did you then decide to use the term monetize, but you'll make a life out of this? What was the master plan or was there one?

Renee Robyn: Oh my God, there wasn't one in there there often isn't I have a friend of mine was just listed on a top 30, under 30, and we were having a chat about it. And I was like, first of all, I didn't know you were under 30. And he's like, dude, it's VFX here.

Sorry, man. You know, and he was talking about how everything in his life is built with intention and, and it is in, you know, his career is incredible. And he's a very talented artist and businessman. In my case, I have found that whenever I go, I'm going to do this thing. The universe is like, no, you're not, you're not, you can't think clearly enough to see what's actually good for you.

So we're going to derail that plan. I'm going to give you something else because. I mean, just like I thought I was going to be working in the oil field or something like that. And I was like, yeah, this is life. The university is like, nah, this isn't life you're going to do something else. So whenever I start setting out these really direct intentional plans, they always go sideways.

And maybe that's just part of the process for me is that I have to like set these things and then just wait for them to go off the rails and then something better will come out of it. Yeah. It just kept happening. Just kind of funny that way. You know, there was a period where I did get an offer for a job back in the chemical industry and you know, it basically what had happened in one month  my car died, my laptop died, my camera died, my strobes failed and they were like $150 lights off of eBay at the time. So that they're basically fires waiting to happen, but then I had to move. And so I was like, crap, I'm out of a job and I'm homeless. I'm a quote, unquote homeless. You know, I just had to 

Alastair Jolly: and you know all your tools of your trade are gone. 

Renee Robyn: and all my tools are gone and it's all happened in one month. And so I was like, crap, back to work we go. So I took a job in a chemical plant. You know, I was making really good money. Cause that's what the chemical industry does is it pays quite well. And so I was like, okay, well, we're going to do this. We are going to save up $10,000. Cause the last time we went freelance. It was unintentional. You had no money.

It was super hard. It was not fun and it was a big drain on everyone and like a big drain on everyone around me, you know, emotionally, physically resource wise and so on. And I was like, I don't want to do that again. I don't want to put the people in my life through that again. So I was like, okay, we're going to save up $10,000.

This kind of job, this kind of money. You should be able to do that pretty quick. So paid off all my debt, but camera, but backup camera, but backup 

Alastair Jolly: learning already, 

Renee Robyn: right? Yeah, exactly. I did have a studio in downtown Edmonton already. And so I was like, you know, starting to fill it with props and just like really trying to set myself up for success as it goes in my world anyways, the closest I got to $10,000 was 9,500 and always something would happen. Something would happen. Some big bill would happen and like, bam, just like wipe out my savings, you know, by half or whatever. And I was like, Oh my God. So at the time I'm still running a full time photography job and I'm working in this chemical plant and, and I was like, eventually I'm starting to burn out, you know, as, as you're doing two full time jobs, plus you're working all the weekends.

I mean, we all know this story. And so I was 

Alastair Jolly: and the stress of one step forward, two steps back, 

Renee Robyn: right? Yeah, exactly. It's super exhausting and it's defeating and it's like really upsetting. And so finally I was having a chat with a friend of mine and he's, he's been around for like 35 years in the industry. Ish. He'd probably get mad at me for saying that.

Cause then he'd be like, you're dating me.  

Alastair Jolly: He's lots of good experience. 

Renee Robyn: He has, you know, and I really respect his, I really respect his opinion and his, his experience. And so I called him up one day and I was just stressed out and I was like, man. What am I supposed to do?

Like I'm supposed to quit this job where I finally, for the first time, like I have pension, I have like actual insurance. I have security, you know, like I have this thing that I've been told. I would want my entire life growing up in Alberta, but I'm stressed, you know, I'm super stressed. I'm making good money.

You know, I have like a great home and all that stuff. And it was just like, but I'm really losing my mind. And I was like, I have to quit one of these things. I was like, I have to quit photography. Cause I can't do it part time. Like I can't just even not to do it for money. I was like, I can't just not be all in.

Right. Uh, so I have to just stop and find something else or I'd have to quit that security, that secure life and just like. Walk away from it, with the savings goal that I never reached. Right. And I was like, Oh man. So I was just, I was crying and I was stressed out and he gave me the best advice ever. And he said, well, I just wanna let you know that quitting art will be the worst 15 minutes of your life.

And I was like, Oh my God, you're right. Yeah. 

Alastair Jolly: It’s gonna hook you straight back in. 

Renee Robyn:  Like you just can't quit that, you know? And he's tried, he's been there in the past. And so I was like, do right. So I went into work the next day. And instead of writing an email, just to my boss, I like. Because I know me if I just wrote it to my boss, I would take it back.

So I wrote it to like the entire site, like the global team that I was working on, like the people who were teaching the people I was teaching. And I was like, Hey guys, just letting you know, this is like really fun, but I'm done in two weeks and my finger hovered over send. And I was like, Oh my God, what am I doing?

What am I doing? What am I doing? I hit send, I cried. 

Alastair Jolly: You had written that one way ticket by, 

Renee Robyn: I wrote the one way ticket. Yeah. And I just cried. I cried and cried and cried for like two weeks. Cause I was like, what am I doing? Like, you know, that's all my programming that I've been taught my entire life. And I was like, Nope.

Next, like onto the next thing. And I think I had $1,200 in my bank account. Like I quit at like the worst time financially, but I was like this, I gotta figure it out. And that's it. And so again, starvation is an excellent motivator. Start taking all the jobs. You start doing a bunch of jobs. You don't like you start figuring out what jobs started, figuring out what jobs I did like, and then tried to kind of like.

Massaging it around that. And I mean, a trial and error, like everyone else has done this, you know, you get burned a few times, get a few scorch marks and if he's dabbling and you're like, 

Alastair Jolly: how do you battle? I'm not seeing you, you have demons, but how do you battle those demons when you're, you've constantly been knocked down.

Well, physically, it was literally knocked down by a car, but you know, you're taking one step forward and then getting knocked down two steps back. Who do you, come to terms with that and just keep going?

Renee Robyn: because I know what's happening to everyone, right? I know what's happening to everyone. Everyone's perception of it, whatever, you know, so one, one thing might be something small as something big someone else, but most of us are getting.

You know, one step forward, two steps back, right. And eventually you get three steps forward and then two steps back. Right. And you're like, am I going to gain the thing? And you're just back where you started 

Alastair Jolly: I have leveled up back to the beginning. 

Renee Robyn: Exactly. Right. But I mean, I just looked around at it and I mean, at that, at this point, especially now I've been in this industry , for 23 years.

23 years. Yeah. 23 years. And so I've seen a lot of empires rise and fall in that period of time, you know, and I wasn't necessarily photography, but like revolving around the industry. Yeah. And I thought, you know, every single time I want to quit and I'm like ready to quit. Like I am just there. Like my stuff is in boxes with shipping labels.

I sit there and I go every single time I almost quit is when someone else did. And so I just don't and I don't let myself 

Alastair Jolly: remember. There's going to be the worst   15 minutes. 

Renee Robyn: Yeah, exactly. It's not, maybe it's not the right answer. Maybe I'm holding myself back from like another amazing career. But I haven't found it yet.

I mean, I admittedly I am always looking to see if there's another career out there and what does it look like? Just, it's never, I haven't found it yet 

Alastair Jolly: or, 

Renee Robyn: yeah. I just haven't found it, you know, and it's not aggressively looking for it, but I know that life evolves and changes over time. Right. And who we are and what we need changes over time.

And so I don't want to shut myself out because I've also met a lot of people. In the industry who, you know, did it for 25 years and I would ask them, you know, Hey, it looks, so, what do you think about doing this? I was 25 years. I said, you know, I wish I'd taken a chance at X, 10 years ago when I could have done it.

It was a really good time to have changed careers, but I was afraid, you know, and I go, okay, well, so I just kind of try to watch for that. You know, maybe it'll have him maybe, maybe it won't, maybe I will be doing this till Armageddon . 

Alastair Jolly: I'm very fortunate. It happened for me 20 years as a photographer before transitioning to SmugMug, but very fortunate to stay in this industry and stay among the creatives I love. But it seems to be the natural order of things that there is, there almost has to be some pain to be an artist in some ways. People think it should just be straightforward of constant improvement, but there has to be the learnings, the feelings to have better learnings and. 

Renee Robyn: Well, I just, look, I just look at any career, no matter what it is like a longterm relationship, you know, if you're with the same person for 20 years, eventually it's somewhere in that 20 years has been some bumps. Somewhere in that 20 years 

You have both been like, maybe we should see other people, but you don't and you figure out a way through it, right. Or you do. And you finally say, okay, man, I’m seeing other people were like living somewhere else or whatever. There has to be a change. But even if you're with someone for 20 years, there's going to be changes in that relationship and careers are the same, in my opinion, 

Alastair Jolly: Not justthe relationship but with circumstances around the relationship.

Renee Robyn: Exactly. Yeah. It's so complex, but that's exactly how I find these careers are, is that, you know, people are just like, Oh my God, it's like this. And I was like, go talk to a couple. Who's been married for 50 years. And see what their coping mechanisms were for being together for that long, and then try to apply some of that to your, to your career, because it's, it is a relationship.

Alastair Jolly: and it's never been smooth sailing for 50 years.

Renee Robyn: Almost. No, no way I've met. I've met like two people in my life who had those kinds of marriages and they're basically unicorns. And I always tell people to like, Oh, how do I love what I do every day? And how do I wake up motivated every day? And how do I, this I'm like, that's a unicorn, everyone's chasing it.

Some people find it. Most don’t. Yeah, that's fine. 

Alastair Jolly: Yeah, it's definitely fine not to find it.

I the mentioned earlier that, you know, you appear huge part, certainly from my witnessing of your work, a huge part of your work is travel. Yeah. How big a part does travel play in finding, you know, this imagery that you want to capture?

Renee Robyn: I mean, travel, everything. I live in Edmonton, Alberta, and I don't know too many people who know where that is. It's I like to title it land of always winter, but never Christmas.

I mean, it's North it's Prairie land and some people are super inspired by that. I mean, um, winter and Alberta's beautiful. But it is really cold, you know, and the stuff that I was really interested in is stuff that's far away visually anyways, then, I mean, I just, I'm interested in that stuff anyways. So I got to go to those places to find it, and I got to go to those places to feel it and to understand it as best as I can.

And so that means getting on an airplane. And the getting on the airplane part never used to be a job. Like, you know, when you're just like you wake up in the morning, you're just like, if there was a way to not get on this plane right now, like, you know, when you're a kid and you're just like, can I fake being sick to not get on a school bus?

I have those moments now getting on airplanes. Yeah. But I know that progress doesn't happen if I don't get on a plane, but the. 

Alastair Jolly: So you don’t enjoy the physical traveling 

Renee Robyn: I used to, I just don't anymore. Yeah. I mean, I've been injured like a few more times since my leg for other things. And so travel is just like, it's so painful.

It's just like physical pain all the time. But what I want is on the other side of that pain, so I have to do it. It's again, like the quitting thing of like, I could quit right now, but someone else before me did quit right here and I'm not going to be that person, 

Alastair Jolly: Would Renee Robyn be the type of person who would try teleporting if it was available?

Renee Robyn: A hundred percent.

Oh yeah. I know there was a chance that I turned into a beagle on Mars and that was it. Uh, 

Alastair Jolly: Cool I have been looking for that person that would try it first before I tried it. Cause I'd love to teleport, but I definitely wouldn't be the first in line. 

Renee Robyn: I don't care. Again, it goes to the same, the same thing of, you know, are you dead or are you severely mangled?

Those are two different scenarios. Now the answer is you just get de atomized and you never re connect. That's fine. Sounds actually not too bad. There's a lot worse ways to go. 

Alastair Jolly: So when you do travel somewhere who knew. You put up with the travel, what happens on the other side? What, what are you typically trying to do when you get somewhere?

Renee Robyn: If I'm going somewhere that I've been before, I'm trying to find my favorite restaurant. I travel for food. I love there's like a few places all over the world where I just like fantasize about that dish that I had. And I just can't wait to go back. I guess it was a place in the Netherlands that make these donor raps.

They're like donors, but it's thinly sliced meat instead of in North America, it's thick sliced meat. So it's very thin. It has a different flavor of sweet sauce and lettuce and they, they fry it and they stick it and I will go there still with all my luggage from the airport that I am dragging. And I like roll in there with all my stuff.

Sweaty, gross. Been awake for 47 hours. And I will like order this thing and haul it with me going and just like ditch my gear and like inhaled his thing. So, I mean, yeah, it's not photography related at all, but I just love finding like great places that have food that I can't find anywhere else. It's like really great.

Alastair Jolly: So you, so you traveled to get food, then, then the photography is almost secondary. 

Renee Robyn: It didn't start out that way, but like gets my reward for being on the airplane for so long. I'm food motivated. I'm like a little dog 

Alastair Jolly: valuable knowledge to remember. 

Renee Robyn: It's true. It's true. 

Alastair Jolly: Let's get a little bit geeky. Talk about your photography side of it.

So you get. You've had your food fix. Now you have to get one with the job. What is the job? What are you doing when you're traveling? What is the goal? 

Renee Robyn: Uh, it depends. I mean, every single time is different. So a lot of times I'm looking for back plates or I'm meeting with a client and maybe we've pre visualized everything ahead of time in email or whatever video chats, maybe we haven't.

I do my best work. When I can sit in front of someone and I can, this is going to sound really weird, but I do my best work when I can sit in front of who I'm going to be photographing and I can feel them. Right. And I don't know how else to explain it. If I'm video chatting with someone or I'm talking to them on the phone or through email, I can't feel what they can be.

Right. And that goes, even for models. You know, I have to just like watch them. I have to watch their, their ticks, their twitches. 

Alastair Jolly: their tells? 

Renee Robyn: yeah. And, and I want to understand what it is that they're subconsciously self conscious of what parts of themselves do they not like, because especially with the subjects, I can look at their, if it's a model, I can look at their portfolio.

And I can go, Oh, that's interesting. In their portfolio, this feature about them was never shown, is that because they've never had the opportunity or because they prefer it, not show him. Uh, and then I can have that dialogue when I feel it's appropriate to the situation. So, uh, there's a lot of that where, you know, I will just like sit back and watch and then, you know, discuss what I need to, and then just kind of like observe and then get into the space and kind of feel it.

And then once the photography part is done, then the digital art aspect starts. Or sometimes the tailor around the plates have been made already. The backgrounds are pre made and we just have to shoot a person that's the fastest and easiest way. If we have sat down, you know, with, if there's an art director or the client or whatever, and we build the background first and then we just have to shoot the subject and then that takes like 10 minutes.

Alastair Jolly: So, but you should build the background from plates. So these are photographs you've taken on location. 

Renee Robyn: Yeah. Yeah. Like all over the world.

Alastair Jolly:. Yeah, exactly. Are you taking these plates. Specifically for that client? Or do you have a, like a 

Renee Robyn: gigantic library? Yeah, so I travel with 12 terabytes, so I have a backpack of hard drives.

I have them with me always because one of the things that I get hired a lot for is, you know, if I have. The client will come to me and they will say, Hey, we have this show coming up with this campaign coming up, can you deliver an image? It kind of like fits this theme, you know, in the next month.

And I go like, yeah, sure. For sure. Like I have, my entire library is with me. I don't put it on the cloud because I'm never where the internet is. Good enough for long enough. It would take forever. So I do have a hard backup. I have, I have backups and backups and backups backups.

But, uh, I do keep a copy of everything with me. And so,  if someone comes to me with a, like a client comes to me and they're like, Oh, can we do something like this? Then I start reaching out, uh, going through my library of people that I've photographed and locations I've photographed. And I start reaching out to the people who I think the stuff that we have pre-shot might fit.

What this client is looking for. And I started saying, Hey, just so you know, are you interested in this? What would you rate be? So on and so forth. And sometimes what I'll often do. And I always tell people this, and like, if a client comes to me with an, with an idea and I use your face for it, you know, and it can be like five years later, if I am unable to add a fee for the subject, I just give them a cut of whatever my rate is.

Right, because without them, the work doesn't happen. 

Alastair Jolly: So that whole process though, although time consuming for you on the back end of collecting all these plates and the stalk of imagery, I guess one of the benefits to your clients is the speed at which you can start production of the final image because you're not then starting the travel or starting the hunt for an image.

You've already kind of done that work. 

Renee Robyn: Yeah. Usually, um, there are times where I've had a couple of clients in the past where they had something very, very specific in mind. Yeah. And then I was like, okay, just so you know, that's going to be five days of travel at this rate. You're going to be paying for flights, hotels, but that's not very common that I get a lot of those clients who are willing to spend the 30,000, you know, just to get like that perfect backdrop.

Alastair Jolly: typically they do access, but typically that they're happy to work with 

Renee Robyn: what I've already got. Exactly. Yeah. And I try to have a pretty diverse, 

Alastair Jolly: Oh, it's pretty diverse. I've seen it. Plus you manipulate it so much as well. You can, it may not be the perfect image. 

Renee Robyn: Yeah. Well, because every single backlog is made up of multiple images, like lots of different ones.

So it's not, it's not very often. It's just like, Oh, I have this one that has a perfect sky and a perfect. Then we just like smashed together. I love those days. Those are the best days. No, it's just the greatest. I love it so much, but it is not common. 

Alastair Jolly: You've done all the travel you've you've got this stock, but obviously you're continuing to add to it.

But when you're working with a client you've, you've traveled to the client, you've got tactile with the clientto determine the type of job that you need to do. Yeah. But you don't then produce onsite. Do you then go back to your studio?

Renee Robyn: Oh, there are some, some jobs that I've had to do where. Uh, we show up, we film all day. So we do like video, uh, and then we, you know, they shoot the behind the scenes video of the shoot itself and then edit.

Right there. Yeah. Right. And it was a long day, but those are good days because then you go home and there's no extra work to do. You know, it's been a long day or two or three or whatever. You know, some clients are very, very hands on where they really like to be sitting there in the room. And I actually prefer it that way.

Uh, some people there's just like, I don't want my client, the client like messing with it or seeing the process and I actually don't mind it because especially if it's a good art director and have really good taste, I'm like, man, I will just be the meat. Moving around some sliders for you to get this where you need it to be.

Cause it's the most efficient way to do it is to be sitting in the room with them. The last thing it drags on for days is you're sending back and forth. I hate it.

Alastair Jolly:. An Art director that knows what they want, can give great direction. To, to get there is definitely gonna speed up that process and have so much. A real reduction in the team it's going to take to get the client happy.

Renee Robyn: A great art director and producer. They're worth every rate. 

Alastair Jolly: You're going to get to that. You're going to get to happy client way faster. 

Renee Robyn: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like if you please, your art director, chances are good that the client's probably going to be okay. Yeah. Depending of course, on their conversation and their communication. 

Alastair Jolly: If you are not editing on site or have that time frame.

Do you have a comfort blanket? Do you have a space that you like to editor in?  

Renee Robyn: I travel too much to have a space that I like to edit it in. I mean, uh, and this is like genuinely not a pitch at all, but I, I recently got two View Sonic monitors and I love them. And now I'm spoiled. I'm just like, I don't want to look at my laptop screen anymore.

Like I want to look on news, these monitors. Cause they're, I mean, that's 27 inches. I mean, I've always worked on a 17 inch laptop and everyone's like, Oh my God, it's so huge. And why do you carry it around? Because I work on it all day, every day. In like countries all over the world. So I need to see that space.

So I'm okay with carrying the extra weight, but man, those 27 inch monitors, I have spoiled myself.

Alastair Jolly: So the joy of getting back to base

Renee Robyn: actually starting to happen I'm nesting!

Alastair Jolly: mostly for the 27 inch screen. 

Renee Robyn: Yeah. But it makes a huge difference having like. And I've just never experienced that consistently before, you know, like I've stopped in at friends and like plugged in and been like, yeah, this is really cool, but I haven't spent extensive amount of time working on something that I know I've calibrated.

It's, it's exactly what temperatures, I want it to sit, you know? And that's a really nice, uh, and it's kind of spoiling me. 

Alastair Jolly: I've heard you before describe taking photographs as a treasure hunt. Yes. 

Renee Robyn: Yeah, no, it's very much so like, like treasure hunting. Uh, it's trying to find a bunch of pieces that you don't know how you're going to use them and how future you is going to use them.

Cause I have to predict what I think I might want. So when I'm shooting plates, it's, I'm using different lenses, different apatures, different shutter speeds, different angles, tilts, et cetera. So I'll spend like 30 minutes in one spot. It's like. 

Alastair Jolly: I've seen you work has seen, like, it's like she hasn't moved, but like, and then you're like, Oh, I got gigabytes from that one spot, you know?

And it's just all different angles, focal lens, perspective. 

Renee Robyn: Exactly. Like I went out, I was in Newfoundland, um, while I'm in Newfoundland, quite a bit these days. And there was a big storm there and I shot 2000 pictures of waves, different angles, different shutter speeds, different lenses, different apertures.

Because I, I have to sort of figure out what future me would do with it, but I don't really know future me that well yet. So I'm trying to predict something that I don't know in a way that I can make it useful and it's a lot of work, but I do enjoy the background plate collection process. 

Alastair Jolly: Yeah. So you're trying to collect plates and pre-visualize what you might use this for in five years time.

Renee Robyn: What work would I do? Five years from now. And what's hilarious is that I'll go through, are we doing a job? Like let's say now, and I am going through photographs that I'd taken five or six years ago. And I sit there and I'm like tapping through the images, just like tap, tap ,tap, tap trying to find the right one.

And I go, Oh man, this is perfect. I wish I had taken tap. Oh, there it is. It happens a lot where I'm just like, I just like tap younger me on the back. Thank you. 

Alastair Jolly: You just saved me a ton of work. Well done my younger me.  

Renee Robyn: younger me, you know, either that, or I'm just really predictable. I don't know. It's like 

Alastair Jolly: a, it's like an episode, the backs of the future.

Renee Robyn: It's kind of funny that way, but yeah. It definitely happens where it's just like, tap, tap, tap. Oh, man. It's really good. 

Alastair Jolly: Most of us, you know, most photographers are trying to, pre-visualize a current piece of work and pre-visualize and find something that suits that commission, whatever a bit.

No, you're taking these things so far in advance. You have no idea what the vision is. 

Renee Robyn: Yeah. I'm constantly using, using images that I take in five, six, seven years ago. Yeah. I actually recently, well recently a year and a half ago. I redid my entire SmugMug site and I re edited 250 pieces of artwork. And that's stuff that even that I'd taken back in my old Nikon D80.

Yeah. The one that died when my car died and my laptop died and I reworked this like gigantic body of work because. I realized that the, the photography that I'd done at the time was good enough to make something better with, cause I had photographed it at the time, just flat enough that I could make something happen.

And so I did, and I like, I apply the skills that I added over the eight, nine, ten years since then. And it was like, Oh, that's what it could have looked like. That's really interesting. So this is funny. 

Alastair Jolly: There's a lesson there for all of us who are, you know, always think that we need this new piece of gear or, you know, this new, latest, greatest camera's going to make me better.

You're you're using images from, you know, but you know, most people would probably not consider. Yeah. 

Renee Robyn: A lot of the work was shot on a 5D Mark one. They originally twelve megapixel like that tank of a camera and I mean, obviously they're not going to print huge, but I mean, I was, I was shooting for billboards with a 12 megapixel camera and I mean, their billboards that are far away.

I mean, it works. It totally works. 

Alastair Jolly: Yeah. So. Bit of a leading question, but it's Renee Robyn a perfectionist? 

Renee Robyn: Sometimes. When it comes to masking. Yes. When it comes to dodging burning. No Hate doge and burning so much hate. I try to avoid it at all costs, but yeah, I mean, I just really want it to look the way it is in my head.

And I know the best thing I can do if I'm stuck on an image is to go have a nap. So stubborn that I will just sit there for 15 hours. You know, that is the least healthy option that you can do. It probably would be better. If I went up, got up, I went for a 20 minute walk and sat down. I probably would have an answer in an hour.

I'm stubborn. So I sit there for 15 

Alastair Jolly: Are you are an artist that knows when they're done? Do you think this image is done? Or is it something you force? 

Renee Robyn: Well, Sometimes there is a force and sometimes I'm just like this is good enough. I don't care. It's like, 

Alastair Jolly: Oh so you’re not a perfectionist.

Renee Robyn: well, because there is a balancing act. I mean, on one hand I'm a commercial artist and they, someone has paid me for eight hours of my time. I will put eight hours into that image. If it needs an extra hour or two.

Okay, fine. I'll put it in if it's like, if that's what it's required, but that's on me for not budgeting that image appropriately. Yeah. Right. So when it comes to quoting for artwork of like how much time is it's going to be, even on my personal stuff, I try to estimate, is this going to be a two hour image?

Is this going to be a three day image? And if so, because then I can start predicting it. When a clients come to me and they say, Hey, can you make something like X? And I can say, yeah, I made that before 17 hour job, probably. And then, you know, there's always the fine print of you are allowed X amount of revisions in that timeline.

I do try to keep restrictions on myself. For those scenarios, because the other thing that can happen is you just edit endlessly 

Alastair Jolly: and it's a business. You know, some of us, some of us may struggle to know when to stop when it's a personal project or it's you know something you're working on. But when you're doing the level of complexity and the level of editing that you do.

It could be an endless project. You could always find something to change or, or adjust, but it's a business and you're being paid by the hour or you have to value your time. 

Renee Robyn: Exactly. And even myself as a, I am a client to myself when I'm doing personal work. I always tell people, you know, uh, put a price on your day for your personal job.

So people are like, Oh, I don't ever have time for personal work. I'm too busy with X. And I go, well, what's your day rate is your day rate, a thousand dollars a day. Then let's say that then that one day a month, you are a $5,000 client to yourself. And if you're a $5,000 client to yourself, that means anybody who comes in under that $5,000, who wants that day, doesn't get it because it's booked because somebody offers you 10, you negotiate your free, you know, setting a price on how you value your own personal development is super important because then it means that you will allow yourself to have the time.

To develop yourself to where you hopefully want to be eventually. Yeah. Right. Cause like progress doesn't usually come and like huge aha moments. I mean, it might, when you get your first telephoto lens and you're like, Oh my God, like my images finally looked the way I want them to that's where technology can get you to where you want to be.

And it's not necessarily a time thing. A lot of it is a time thing and it's like small incremental one foot in front of the other. Over years. 

Alastair Jolly: Yeah. How much importance do you put on personal work? 

Renee Robyn: Massive, huge, huge, huge, huge. Yeah, because I, I work to live. I don't live to work and that means that I have to put time in and schedule time for, to do the things that I enjoy doing, which means personal work.

Um, I know through and through. The kids who have like cameras and Photoshop and they're 16 or 16 right now, they're going to expire me in 15 years, because then in 15 years, they're going to have a business experience because they're going to have industry experience and they're going to be so much further ahead in, in the technology than I am.

I already know I'm a bit of a dinosaur already. Like I look at 3d and I'm just like, I'm trying to understand it, but it's a lot harder if I had been teaching myself 3d when I was 16, when my brain was a little soft and malleable and hadn't had a couple of concussions. It would be very different experience.

So I know. I know I'm going to be expired. The only thing I can do is like, make that delayed as possible.

Alastair Jolly: Right, 

Renee Robyn: But I know it was inevitable because, you know, I, where I am now, I took someone else's position some, somewhere along the line, every new contract that I get is a contract that someone else didn't get.

Yeah. Right. And that's going to switch. Right. And that's kind of how it goes too. Like, people are just like, Oh my God, they've gotten this new client. And like everything's made now. And I'm like, no, man, like you might work with them for two years. You took that job from someone else. Someone's going to take that job from you eventually, you know, whether it's a rate thing or someone else is going to get hired and they decided they just don't like you, there's so many reasons why you will stop getting those clients and you have to keep evolving to start getting, to keep getting new ones.

And you know, it's a it's salmon, swimming, upstream. 

Alastair Jolly: Yeah. The personal work keeps you relevant? Keeps you young? 

Renee Robyn: it keeps, it keeps me, it keeps me engaged and it keeps me interested. It's it makes evolution for me a priority and it makes it enjoyable because I've definitely done jobs where I've learned on the job.

Yeah. I've said yes to this, and I'm like, I have no idea how I'm going to do this. And I'm like messaging people and being like, it's always like, that's the one thing I'm not really sure. Uh, how much is your rate? If you can like consult or just like pull in a favor, 

Alastair Jolly: any profit left after you consult for me?

Renee Robyn: Right. Well, sometimes it's worth it. Sometimes it's worth it. I always, especially with commercial jobs, I try to hire, like, I try to make sure I'm the dumbest person in the room. Like I hire everyone better than me. I've shot two weddings in my life, maybe three. And my second shooters were way better photographers than I was.

And that was just because I was like, I just need to make sure that we can deliver something. I would never hire. Assistant photographers who weren't really good because you know, a lot, I mean, I don't know, I'm sure as a photographer, new second shot, lots of stuff all the time. Right. Cause they're just like, I just show up, I'm like shooting some pictures of hand in a card at the end day and I go home.

You're like, yeah, sure. I'll do that for like X price. Yep. Don't have to deal with the editing. Don't have to deal with a client done. Right. Like most of us are going to say yes or something like that. Um, and so I definitely like giving those opportunities out and it just, it just helps everything get a little bit.

You just deliver a better product to the client at the end of the day. And you have a good working experience because you're not stressed of like, Oh my God, what if X? Oh my God, what if this, you know, you just, you know, that it'll probably be fine. And that's important to me.

Alastair Jolly: What  are some of the personal projects you've been working on?

Renee Robyn: Oh man, I just launched like last spring, this huge horse project I'm working on. Yeah. For four years and there's a lot more years to go yet 

Alastair Jolly: Give the listeners a little insight. 

Renee Robyn: Yeah. So if you go to my website, which is ReneeRobinphotography.com/blog,  there is a blog post there called for the love of horses.

And I grew up on a farm. So we had horses and you know, my whole family, especially on my mom's side is very, very animal based. You know, you go to the grandparents' farm and there's like 50 to 150 horses and there's like cattle and all crazy stuff. And it was massive formative part of my brain. And I started thinking like, well, what would happen if I tried photographing horses the way I photograph people. And I didn't realize how big of an undertaking that was going to be, because, you know, at this point now it's been five years ago. I didn't realize how big that was going to be to get what I wanted, you know, and again, as I have the best plans ever made, uh, yeah, every single time, you know, I'm like, man, I spent four years practicing, rehearsing training, like finding the right people first more than anything.

And then practice rehearsal, rehearsal, rehearsal, you know, trying to find out the limitations of what it is between what I want to do and what's actually physically possible. And then of course the universe comes along and dumps a couple of feet of snow on us and 130 kilometer, an hour winds. And then everything that we had planned that I had planned for like four years and suddenly went to smell 

Alastair Jolly: I remember you be telling me about the concept. I'm gonna have these big working horses, big powerful horse. We have jousters on horses and I'm going to build a set in the woods. Yeah. I'm going to photograph them the way I would photograph a model. And I am like that sounds difficult. 

Renee Robyn: so much 

Alastair Jolly: And then I hear astorm has come in and dumped snow.

Renee Robyn: It shutdown the entire province for like 36 hours.

Like the whole thing. Um, most of our, a lot of our crew couldn't even make it. We've got a bunch of performers that just could not physically get there. Uh, assistance couldn’t show up. Um, you know, second camera shooters couldn't show up. Like we had one videographer to video record this whole thing. Thankfully he did an amazing job.

So if you go to the website and you go to the blog, you scroll down through the endless writing about it. Cause I was literally just venting, but there's this great video there that a friend of mine Nathan did, and it's really great. You know, he did such a good job. But everyone was strapped down to the bare, bare possible minimum, but I still love the images.

I mean, after I'd shot it, I felt so defeated because all of the images that I had in my head for years, none of them we could do. And it was just like, Oh, and just crushed. Yeah, it was really. Depressing. Cause the first day we get so much snow and wind. None of these shots we could do out in the open because of 130 kilometer, winds and snow.

So we had to go into the trees and it was so slippery. So you couldn't do any of the stuff. And we did some charges, but like, like at like 30% or less of what we had planned and these, these are performers. They're excellent. I mean, they're top they're top of the line. They perform all over the world. Um, you know, the professional jousters, they, they do this to put food on the table for like part of the year anyways.

So what we're asking them to do as well within the allowances of safety, because I'm just not willing to push it, you know, especially when you're talking with like large draft horses or just anything, I mean, it's lives, you know, weapons and weapons, swords, and arrows, and like all this stuff. Um, one of the wildcards that we didn't expect that we should have.

Uh, is the craziness around insurance. So, uh, we brought in a bunch of Broncolor lights for it. And fortunately we had the foresight when we rented them to get the battery pack version, which originally I was like, well, we're going to be shooting close to where we're have power, so we can just run extension cords and it'll be fine.

And I was like, okay. Part of my brain was like, it probably should just get the battery packs. You're not going to get the recycle time that you want. Which sucks, but you know, you're just going to have to get it in one shot. 

Alastair Jolly: But Like you have some flexibility, 

Renee Robyn: right? So like, just in case, cause we had like the slightest inkling that there might be a storm coming in.

We weren't really sure. And then there was a chance that it wasn't like it might, maybe miss us, you know? So, um, yeah, we had these Broncolor lights ship up and we crossed, hide the crap out of them and everything, but it was just like, you have to have insurance for all that. Well, what does insurance look like for that?

Well, it turns out it's called stunting insurance. Cause as soon as they're like, Oh yeah, well what's a shoot for, and I was like, Oh yeah, well, you know, we're going to have horses. And they were like, well, full-stop what horses? And I was like, Oh yeah. He was like, what are they going to be doing? And I was like, well, they're not gonna be close to me.

Well, what are they doing? And I was like, uh, 

Alastair Jolly: carrying people with weapons, 

Renee Robyn: they're going to have armour. And he was like swords. And I was like, yeah. And so, yeah, turns out stunting insurance is extremely expensive, but if, I mean, the troop that we worked with, they have their own insurance, but if you running equipment, you have to have it insured and appropriately, you know?

And so like if something, you know, because horses can just do this. Sometimes, sometimes they're just like, no, I don't want to do whatever it is you're doing. Maybe they kick out and they destroy a light. Right? Yeah. The insurance companies be like, how did your light get destroyed, they fell down the stairs. You can’t lie about that.

It's called fraud, 

Alastair Jolly: fraud and why is there a hoof print on this.

Renee Robyn: Right, exactly. So, yeah, that, um, and I didn't realize like anything that you're doing with animals, you, especially large animals, you need just stunting insurance. Yep. And so that's like another huge consideration that I had never thought of. And I've talked to friends who photograph people on horses all the time.

And I'm like, did you know that you have to have stunning insurance for that? Like, no, I thought it was covered. I was like, Yeah. Probably not. 

Alastair Jolly: Yeah. And you probably have to follow the health and wellbeing policies and 

Renee Robyn: it's so complicated. Yeah. And so, like I had no idea. And then also in the price of the shoot, just like quadrupled, um, we actually did a, did an account on, we did a tally on how much that shoot cost if we had, and I pulled every favor I could cause I've done a lot of favors for a lot of friends over the years. 

And so I pulled in every one I could imagine.

Alastair Jolly: Yeah. 

Renee Robyn: And, uh, if we had paid at cost, For everything that shoot would have cost around $95,000 

Alastair Jolly: for a personal project 

Renee Robyn: for at personal project and as it was over the four years. I mean, it's lots. Yeah. It's a lot. 

Alastair Jolly: It's a beautiful body of work though. And the bts film is absolutely incredible.

Despite all the, you know, the things that went wrong. Could you have envisaged that style of work? 

Renee Robyn: Never. Yeah, no. Like you couldn't plan for that. You can't plan for that kind of work. And that's again, like one of those scenarios, like I was talking about earlier where like my best laid plans universe is like, hold on, you think you have a great idea.

You don't, 

Alastair Jolly: this is the idea. This is what the universe wanted you to capture.

Renee Robyn: You want to be better. Yeah. But the ironic part was that it was supposed to be not composite. I was like, I want to like, get this stuff in camera. It is going to be awesome. And I'm so excited about it. And then these wound up being just these massive composites, like every single image is just huge and there's so many pieces, but I love it.

I mean, I do love the body of work, man. That was a lot, I mean, if it wasn't. For having like really good crew there. 

Alastair Jolly: Shout out to the crew, 

Renee Robyn: shout out to the crew, shout out to Curtis Jones for keeping me from killing everything. 

Alastair Jolly: If, uh, you see, you might, you, you mentioned it where people can see this. You want to just repeat where people can, not just see this personal project, but if they want to see more of your work. 

Renee Robyn: Yeah. So if you want to see that, you know, my entire body of work in general, just go to ReneeRobynphotography.com. If you want to see the horse project itself, you can just go to slash blog and it'll be for the love of horses. And you can scroll to the bottom, skip the words if you want to.

Or if you want to hear the full story of how this all came about, you can read the endless. 

Alastair Jolly: For the love of horses. 

Renee Robyn: I love horses and I've always wanted to do this, 

Alastair Jolly: but that plea on, you know, the, the things that were thrown in your way, you 

Renee Robyn: know, tragic, physically hard all the way through, but, uh, you know, I really am also still really excited to be able to do the images that we have planned because I still think the ideas are really great, but now I can take everything that we learned, you know. Nevermind the, the endless practice rounds and training and you know, all this other stuff.

Now I can take all of that and apply it to the original concept. And maybe that will make it even better, you know? Cause we have so many takeaways that like, you just couldn't have planned. If everything went right. Yeah. So yeah, it was, it was a great learning experience and I love the work. So can't wait to do the other one, the original vision.

Alastair Jolly: Somewhere else I would encouraged people to go find out a little bit more about you. We were very fortunate to, to make our own SmugMug Film which featured yourself. So if you go to smugmug.com/films, you can check out our film featuring Renee which is called ‘Dreams of a Digital Artist.’ 

Renee Robyn: Yeah. That was a fun.

That was a fun time. That was super enjoyable. 

Alastair Jolly: So it’s always great making these films with our favorite artists. And 

Renee Robyn: I love the SmugMug Films so much. Like I love them when I just I've watched. I mean, almost all of them. They're so good. I mean, obviously, Anton is amazing and he needs a film made on him for people who don't know, Anton is the guy who does all the videography.

And I think the editing to too. He's amazing. Amazing. I love his style. 

Alastair Jolly: If you want to be inspired and motivated, 

Renee Robyn: or mildly intimidated and a little depressed. There's a little bit of that initially. Oh, I just Bella’s recently and I was like, Oh my gosh. She is so good. Oh man. I just watched that. I'm like, I can't, how does she see that?

Like, there's a picture of the girls with the sun coming behind and that was just like what?

Alastair Jolly: I am reallyfortunate to work with Anton witness that. That creation that she made from start to finish. It was incredible, but yeah, go to SmugMug films and be inspired and motivated. We've got like six years worth of work there now, which is crazy to think. And we're adding to that all the time.

So, but dreams of a digital artist find out, see, see a bit more of, of Renee’s earlier work. 

Renee Robyn: Yeah. Five years ago, 

Alastair Jolly: you were one of the earlier, maybe it's a, maybe in a few years we will revisit that and get it up to date.

Renee Robyn: I mean, yeah, like I can't thank you guys enough for having me be a part of that. Like to be a part of that library is surreal, it's just like.

You know, if I had told 16 year old me that, 

Alastair Jolly: to be honest, the honor is ours. You know, we, we love to feature our heroes in this industry and the artists we love dearly. And it really was a pleasure to make that film as it was a pleasure to talk to you, to spend some time diving into your world. Renee, thank you so much.

And I can't wait to do this again. Something 

Renee Robyn: Yes that would be superawesome. And thanks for having me on. It's always a pleasure and of course I love you guys, so anything and always and forever, 

Alastair Jolly: It’s mutual. Okay. Bye. 

Renee Robyn: Bye.