Supporting Ourselves and Others with Sport Therapist Becky Clark

Today I’m talking to sport therapist Dr. Becky Clark. 

Becky is a mental performance consultant, sports diplomat, and licensed psychotherapist. She was a multisport athlete in college and beyond, and a 3x Deaflympian winning multiple medals with USA Deaf Women's Volleyball. Today, Becky continues her work on the international stage as a sports diplomat, helping countries find connections and start conversations through sports.

We talk about:

• The importance of having a robust network of support at every stage of life as well as that one person you can lean on to sort out life’s challenges.
• How the athlete mentality can push people to achieve the unimaginable but also presents a challenge after the competition when the question on everyone’s mind is “what’s next?”
• The challenge of accepting our triumphs without dismissing them and the importance of taking time to feel emotions during big transitions.

Click here to grab a free resource I designed to help you identify your values, so you can start building a career that is in alignment with what's important to you, just like Dr. Clark.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Giselle Aerni: Welcome to the Madam Athlete podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Giselle Aerni. I'm a sports medicine physician with a passion for teaching and a mission to support other women with careers in this space. On this show, you'll hear the stories from amazing women in their field of sport and athletics. They'll share their journeys, triumphs, and hardships in order to help and inspire you in your own career.

Thanks for joining us. Let's do this!

On today's episode, I'm talking to sports psychologist, Dr. Becky Clark. Becky is a mental performance consultant, sports diplomat, and licensed psychotherapist. She was a multi-sport athlete in college and beyond, and is a three-time Deaflympian winning multiple metals with USA Deaf Women's Volleyball. 

Today, Becky continues her work on the international stage as a sports diplomate, helping countries find connections and start conversations through sports. We talk about 

The importance of having a robust network of support at every stage of life, as well as having that one person you can lean on to sort out life's challenge.

How the athlete mentality can push people to achieve the unimaginable, but also presents a challenge after the competition when the question on everyone's mind is "what's next?" 

And the challenge of accepting our triumphs without dismissing them and the importance of taking time to feel emotions during big transitions.

Hi, Becky. I am so excited to talk to you today. This is just going to be phenomenal conversation. I'm thrilled. 

[00:01:39] Becky Clark: Well, I'm really happy to be here with you. Make it even more phenomenal, Giselle, thank you for having me here. 

[00:01:45] Giselle Aerni: Oh my gosh. My absolute pleasure. I have not figured out how to make this interview less than seven hours, but I'm going to do my best.

[00:01:54] Becky Clark: I promise I'll keep it short. 

[00:01:58] Giselle Aerni: So you have done so much, you have such an incredible story and career and all these amazing things. And so we're going to try to just bust right through it. And I always like to start at the beginning with the educational journey, and I know where you are now and the things you've done, but when you were getting started and looking at college as the very first thing, and I know you had some pretty incredible sports experience in college, how did that all get started for you?

And what were you originally thinking about in terms of just a career? Did you have any thoughts of that? 

[00:02:29] Becky Clark: I knew I was always going to college. You know, simply to say you know, I grew up in a difficult childhood so my, my way out was sports. And with sports, to me they'll also mean an education and for me, you know, my dream were the 1980 Olympics and basketball, so I knew, the only way I could get to college was a scholarship.

So, you know, sports was like saving grace for me. Anyway so I knew I had to keep the grades up and play sports. Plus I didn't want to be a dumb jock. You know, that stereotype of the dumb jock, you know? So I anyway, long story short, I was recruited by UCLA in basketball and volleyball, not long after Title IX.

It offered her scholarship for both sports at that time. When, you know, there wasn't the stress on pick one sport and stay with it in the late seventies. So well they offered like an upperclassmen scholarship for three years with me paying my own way my freshman year and it didn't work out and I was just devastated.

So I accepted a, full ride, four-year scholarship to a small university in Memphis where I grew up. And, it was four years, but at the, at that time I was majoring and I wanted to be a doctor, a medical doctor, pediatrician, or psychiatrist working with children and trauma. Well, along the way through my own trauma, a big portion of it, that I started to lose my hearing when I was a child and it wasn't diagnosed till I was 13 and I would get the hearing aids and I didn't want to be any different.

So I kept my hair long enough nobody could see the hearing aids. But thing about it, I didn't have, I couldn't wear them when I was playing sports and I was a multi-sport stand out in volleyball, basketball, softball, track and field, tennis, golf, you name it, I played it including football in the neighborhood with the boys - tackle football - growing up in the south, we didn't play touch. So I mean you know, being the only girl in the neighborhood who played with like 15 guys, plus my own twin brother. So, you know, that really informed my education. 

But when I got to college, I realized how much I had depended on my brother to hear for me. I didn't know the extent of my hearing loss, because both of us at the time, you know, our childhood was like, it was one crisis after another. So you deal with that domestic violence and so on and don't think about the things that may be happening to you in terms of a disability or, or whatever. 

So in college, my advisor told me, I was really thrilled to be on a scholarship and I would be there at home, and she said, Becky, you can't be a doctor. She was also my chemistry teacher. I didn't like chemistry! I didn't have the brain for chemistry. So I said, well, why not? And I said, no, one's ever told me no before in terms of, you know, dreams. So, in the long run she, she said, well, you're just sending, you'll send all your patients to the morgue cause you won't hear them. And I'm like what heartbeat? I was so naive, you know, Southern girl respect my elders and all of that. So what I did was, I was just totally devastated. 

I ended up leaving that university, learning some sign language. Trying to meet some people in the deaf world, which was foreign to me because it's a whole different culture, whole different language and, you know, sign language is a visual expression rather than oral, and my first, my native language is English. 

Well, I, long story short, I went on to University of Tennessee, I had family in Knoxville and people were saying, why don't you just go ahead and walk on, walk on. And you know, it was like humiliating to me because I had a scholarship lined up and now, you know, ok, I'll walk on.

And I knew Coach Pat Summitt at the time, cause I had gone to her summer camps for two or three years before I transferred over to Tennessee. And I walked on and made the team. But wow, what an experience it was. 

And that's how I began the education. So I ended up having to, people were telling me, well, the only thing you can do is teach deaf people, deaf kids. And I'm like, I don't want to be a teacher. You know? So my, my early my undergraduate years was a lot of transferring and frustration and not being able to get where I needed to be, because back then it wasn't a whole lot of accessibility for deaf and hard of hearing student athletes or anyone practically.

And it was, the funny thing is when they assigned me an interpreter in my classroom and I was like, you know, I'm a southern girl. I was taught not to stare. Where you had to look at the interpreter, right? I could keep a little bit of profession, but I couldn't put the two together. So I'd be like looking off to the corner, looking off over there... Well I said, how am I going to make my grades, you know? 

And you know, Pat Summitt, well, she was Pat Head at that time before she got married and, you know, she demanded all of us to, all of us athletes, that we need to be there early, we need to be sitting up in the front seat. I had to be sitting in the front row anyway, so that wasn't a big deal. I said someday, maybe if I get my hearing back a little bit, you know, or something, I don't know, I can sit in the back row, you know? So that's how I ended up at Tennessee. And I ended up transferring again after two years to take care of a grandmother. So I ended up graduating at Memphis state with a degree in special education, which is now the University of Memphis.

And I still was not happy. I didn't want to be a teacher. I didn't want to be told where I needed to be, but how do you make your dreams come true when you have all these obstacles and barriers and discrimination, you know, ostracization?

So I ended up pointing my finger and I came after my grandmother passed away, I ended up moving to New York. And that's where things started turning around for me. So, I'm not a medical doctor. I am a PhD. So... 

[00:08:56] Giselle Aerni: Yes, I mean just what an incredible start and how challenging that must have been to have these big dreams to have this incredible talent, you know, from athletics and being this multi-sport athlete and being recruited by UCLA, playing for Pat Summit, like, I mean, this is pretty amazing. And to still have to be dealing with the trauma-induced hearing loss, and then figuring your way in this new language, this new community, and trying to navigate your training as a Southern woman who doesn't stare and is only polite and probably doesn't advocate for herself or ask for things or, and then, but, but you need to do all of that in order to hear, in order to learn, in order to find out what's going on, and... 

[00:09:48] Becky Clark: In order to survive, to thrive. 

[00:09:50] Giselle Aerni: Yeah! And I mean, it's just really unreal and amazing. And so you, you end up in New York, this stuff has not like fully shut you down. You're still getting after it. It didn't seem, I mean, I'm sure it wasn't easy, but you don't seem to have an "okay, I'll give up" attitude. 

[00:10:10] Becky Clark: Well, see, that was the thing, when I was playing basketball at Tennessee, my twin brother died, he killed himself. And, you know, I'm at peace, and being able to talk about it a little bit. And so I had that extra stress there. I had so much stress, it was crazy. And, but I didn't tell anyone, I didn't tell the coach or nothing.

And it was really affecting my play and, you know, having to make the grades and trying to figure out how to hear to pass, you know, all of that stuff. And I was, I was too ashamed, you know, and plus people say this thing that I'm teaching at NYU now, mental health and athletics is... we don't want to give the impression that we are weak. Because we are strong. 

When we call it mental toughness, you know, I think mental toughness is a good part of mental health on one extreme, you know, it helps, but I think society, in society we have taken mental toughness to, I mean, the extreme on the opposite side, where no pain, no gain. There's a reason for the pain. You know, "you play like a sissy." I grew up hearing people say, "you're gonna play like a sissy", "you play like a girl". I said, no, you don't say that these days because you know. 

So I had, you know, I kept thinking to myself, what kind of services, what, I wish there were something for me. And one thing about, you know, in terms of getting help... where? And without it being such a stigma or so humiliating and, you know, feeling really depressed and angry about it? 

Pat was, you know, Coach Summitt was way ahead of her time. She pulled me over in her office one day and she said, "Becky, is basketball not important to you anymore?" And that just killed me. You know, what? She said "I can see you're going through something." So I still didn't have the words plus, you know, in the south, you don't talk about your problems too, you know, don't air your dirty laundry, and, and also the secret of childhood abuse is very powerful and that's where, you know, the perps get their, get their power, is in the secret.

So all of this coming together. So she handed me a business card with a psychologist name and phone number on it. And she didn't know about this till many years later when we met up. We shared a podium for a fundraiser for child trauma, Kids First, and we had a chance to talk beforehand and I said, do you remember?

You know, I said, I did go, I, it was way over you know, about 10 miles from campus, but I was not going to go against anything that Coach Summit suggested. Well, I didn't want anyone to know. And so what I did is I took off, I walked. I walked the 10 miles down there and she didn't know about that till many years later.

And she said "Becky, I thought you had a car. Why didn't you ask me?" And I said, "ask you? Uh-uh!" I was like, I gotta get this done. But that opened the door for me to really feel that I could, if Coach Summit was, you know, suggesting it, but I had to deal with all this stigma within me as well. And so I thought, okay if services are not there, I'm going to become a therapist. And so that's where in New York, I was in New York at New York University Clinical School of Social Work, clinical social work, which is, you know, very psychodynamic at the time that I was there. And then I got my PhD at Temple in sports psychology so, and that's what I do today.

My dream did come true! But on a really crazy path. 

[00:14:02] Giselle Aerni: Which we, I just feel like every interview I have on this podcast is, is what happens that you, you end up in this dream thing, but everyone has these crazy paths and these crazy twists and turns, and you had so much adversity and obstacles tossed in your way. And, and here you are doing this amazing thing, providing this incredible service, teaching others about it, to help that raising awareness and do this work.

And God, it's just amazing. I'm so impressed by you. I'm so, just, in awe. 

[00:14:34] Becky Clark: You know, I I've been lately been reflecting on it, especially with this new course. And it's one of the first courses in the school of social work, clinical social work, around the country and being at my alma mater too, you know, the first day of class and all the emotions just came back. Like I was transported back from Tennessee to here, and I said, it might have taken me a long time, but I'm here! 

You know, you have to give yourself you know, compassion and, and your own kudos too. And, that not everything is going to be hunky-dory, but you have to reflect and think about, do you give up or do you keep going?

Believe me, there were times when I did want to give up. But, you know, I think that athlete mentality in me, it's like Pat used to say, "suck it up. Buttercup." How's that for a southern woman? So now I call myself a Southern Belle with Yankee attitude. 

[00:15:32] Giselle Aerni: Yes. Oh my gosh. That's kind of perfect. Oh my goodness. 

Okay, and when you went through to go back to get your PhD, even that wasn't right away?

[00:15:45] Becky Clark: Right. 

[00:15:45] Giselle Aerni: So even to get, go get that master to get through college, to go get that master's, to go back and get your PhD, it was still a journey for you. It was not this like great graduated, graduated, graduated next, next, next, great, figure it out.

[00:16:00] Becky Clark: Right, right, but that was one of the things Dr. Carole Oglesby, who was a professor at Temple University, where I got my PhD, told me, she said "Becky, stay. Stay at NYU, finish your clinical journey, and then come." And I was like, no, no. I've been waiting to do the sports psych for many, many, many years, you know? And she said no, but, you know, she was not only my professor. She became a mentor. And to this day we still collaborate together on different projects around the world.

And it's just, you know, you still had to use sign language interpreters in the classroom and you know, that was the daily kind of educating and advocacy. And sometimes when you know, one can show up, you know, can figure it out, and people don't understand, oh, well you speak so well, I think, my ears are broke, you understand that?

You know, very concrete to understand it, you know? Kids understand it. And then you have like, you know, society will say, well, can't you fix it? Well, no, not really need to be fixing, it's just who I am. 

But you know, I got to Temple and it was like heaven. I had my clinical degree. I combined the NYU clinical work there along with the PhD, but I was working full time too. Working as a clinician in you know, psychiatric hospitals or outpatient units. And you know, all my university experience, which I got up north in the Northeast is all along I-95. You know, New York, Maryland, DC, and Philadelphia. So road warrior. 

[00:17:41] Giselle Aerni: Yes. Oh my goodness. Okay. So. At the same time as all of this, you also continued your athletic journey as well. Like you're a three time Deaflympian.

[00:17:53] Becky Clark: Oh right!

[00:17:54] Giselle Aerni: Oh yeah that other thing I was doing!

[00:17:56] Becky Clark: I was competing until I was 36. I retired when I was 36. You know what I'm saying? Tennessee, after I was getting ready to transfer to Memphis, I was told about, at that time it was Deaflympics, really it was world games for the deaf. And, and I didn't understand it. I though they meant the Special Olympics. And they said no, it's the Deaf Olympics.

And I asked, what's that? And you know, deaf sport, all these athletes that have a hearing loss 55 decibels in the better ear (loss in the better ear, that can be confusing) or are otherwise just deaf, can play. So I tried out for track and field, I tried out for the javelin, but I moved to another funny story about that later.

My fiancé and I had gone through the tryouts in Fulton, Missouri, and I'm not used to being around deaf athletes. I didn't know what, so I was a javelin thrower. And so we were, it was, it was like, you know end of the day when people were picking up, so my fiancé was way down waiting for the javelin to come. So I just took off and threw that. And I heard, WHOA!, And I said what? And it turns out, he had problems seeing in the dark, and the javelin had landed right next to him. Haha, but you know, with the learning thing, it was a lot of different stories. I said, well I'll see for you, you hear for me. 

[00:19:32] Giselle Aerni: Perfect!

[00:19:33] Becky Clark: So I had decided not basketball. Basketball wasn't there in that first year I competed in the Deaflympics in '81, 1981.

They didn't decide to have a women's basketball team until the last second. And so it was too late for me to switch over. So I played volleyball. I was a middle blocker with the nickname "Animal." Which to have a middle blocker at the net, you know, I would just play mind games with my opponents, you know, and I had this wicked short attack hit, that I would go up...

But anyway, I was putting all of this together for me in my career. So, I played in two Olympics, one gold and two silver, and it was a different kind of experience in which wasn't any different than if I'd played, you know, with those who have normal hearing. It's just that with Deaf sport at that time, and they're making strides now, but just don't have the accessibility to camps and, you know, coaches who can communicate and so on.

So I do that on the side too, you know, work with deaf athletes in terms of mental performance. And also with the general population, Olympians, Paralympians, and Deaflympians, doesn't matter. It's just, it's just a phenomenal experience working with them. And, you know, based on my own athletic career that, you know, it was amazing to travel around the world, from my days playing all the multi-sports I did as a kid and then college. And then the thing about college, you know, our first trip out west, I was wearing a University of Tennessee Lady Vols uniform, and we were playing UCLA and I'm like, oh my, talk about journey. You know?

[00:21:23] Giselle Aerni: Like a little full circle.

[00:21:25] Becky Clark: I was like, I'm in the wrong uniform, but it was some pride at representing my home state school. But you know, that wishful thinking of what could have been, you know, we go on our journey and life takes us in a different direction. And we can find meaning and maybe even better opportunities than we had ever dreamed about.

[00:21:48] Giselle Aerni: Yes, that is a beautiful thought. I think that's really helpful. So much, so often we're stuck on that missed opportunity or what didn't happen or what didn't go our way, that it's hard to see what other opportunities are out there or what future amazing thing can come our way. If we just keep looking forward, instead of looking back.

[00:22:08] Becky Clark: Right. But I think we also have to be kind to ourselves. It is one of the things I'm still learning in my own therapy. You know, the athlete mentality has taken me one way. Push, push, push, bam, keep going, going. And then on the other side, let's just slow this down. Let's feel what you're feeling and I'm like, oh Lord, can't it just be good enough?

I say, do you say good enough to an athlete? 

[00:22:32] Giselle Aerni: Yeah. 

There is so much with that, the perfectionism and that fight and trying to be the best all the time. And it can be difficult to go, but how do I give myself grace for learning, for messing up, for figuring it out? 

[00:22:48] Becky Clark: That's the right word. That is a beautiful word, grace.

That's great. Thank you for saying that. That's true. 

[00:22:55] Giselle Aerni: Oh man. Okay. So you are doing all this school, you're doing all of this sports at a high level. You are doing everything. This is pretty, just amazing. Unreal. And then at some point along the way you start doing advocacy and diploma...?, diplomat?, diplomat..

I'm saying that weird. 

[00:23:14] Becky Clark: Diplomacy!

[00:23:16] Giselle Aerni: Diplomacy! There we go. Thank you. Which is really amazing. Having been sports envoy to Thailand and China with the Department of State, the American Cultural Ambassador of Sports for the Deaf in Venezuela.

Like what, how did this come about? Because it's amazing. And how did you, you know, fit that in with everything else you're up to?

[00:23:43] Becky Clark: Well, it's interesting, you know, back in 2012, when the state department, US state department was, Hillary Clinton was the Secretary of State and had created you know, she was, has always been a very vocal and supportive of women's rights and opportunities. And I believe one of her most poignant speeches was in Beijing at the women's conference. So anyway, she came back to the state department and she wanted to set up like a women's sport diplomacy program. Sports Diplomacy as they're known today, but back then, it was known as Sports United. I mean, they started it right after 9/11. They created programs, sports, envoys, sports, visitors, and grants for international changes here in the US and other countries. So Secretary Clinton wanted to set up this mentoring program, thi s global world sports mentoring program.

That have like 17 women from different countries that will come from this country, you know and they will meet with business women. They will be assigned to a business woman or NBA, the NFL, the WNBA, LPGA, I mean and other corporations as well. So that was born in 2012, but it also, before that kicked off, there was a committee.

And I was so excited and one of my sisters at University of Tennessee basketball players Tamika Catchings was on that committee. So I was trying to reach out. I wasn't sure that they would have any representation for girls and women with disability. I wanted to be sure. And that was right before I knew that Tamika was on this committee.

So I contacted the state department and long story short, they invited me for a meeting. And I thought I was meeting with just one person. But when I got there, they brought the whole staff in. Oh, wow. So I learned about all the different programs, including the sports envoys, sports visitors and I was just impressed along with the committee and they did assure me that girls and women with disabilities would be represented on the committee.

And that's all I wanted to know. Well, while I was there one of the staff said, you know, I got a program with five countries from the Pacific and they're deaf. And they're coming here, and I don't have a clue how to, you know, help them, or what resources are around. And I'm pretty familiar with the DC area and New York, so I got involved and I wanted to give back, let me give my time for two weeks. And we created a really good sports exchange week for these track and field athletes. One of the most meaningful and inspiring experiences.

And so during those two weeks we had a meeting and, you know, just to talk about the program and how it was going. And the Director of Sports United at the time asked to speak to me and she said, you're doing such a great job. Would you like to be one of our sports envoys to China on the platform of women with disabilities?

I just looked at her. I said, are you punking me? Really seriously? She said we'll get you all set. You will have a sports envoy partner, who is also a basketball player. Her name was Dr. Andrea Woodson-Smith, who was a Paralympian in basketball. And we both, our disabilities were later in life then, you know, native, being born with it.

And so I met Andrea in China when we first got there and that began my diplomat and diplomacy work and it was just totally amazing in terms of, we use sport as Mandela, Nelson Mandela said, this whole sports diplomacy thing is, you know, it has the power to change the world to unite and inspire us.

And as diplomat, of course, and representing the United States, it was almost like we were going to the Olympics again, you know, we were representing our country. Of course we had to be careful of what we said, how we said it. But for me, it just like all of my experiences, all of the good or the bad, and, you know, the really despairing moments, it came to me during that meeting or during that trip to China and how we can learn from each other, from our issues.

We can use sport to open a conversation between two countries. We discussed the issues, how we can help each other with solutions rather than, oh, here comes the big old Western United States. You're going to tell us what to do. No. No, that's not the purpose. It's an exchange. And it's one of the most, I mean it's like, you know, gold medal moment for me and that's how it started.

And I'm going to different countries working with those with disabilities and not disabilities. I work with US embassies. And, you know, It's just been an amazing journey.

[00:30:01] Giselle Aerni: There's just so much that you have done to give back, to just give back to your sport, to give back to athletes, to give back to women and girls, to give back to athletes with disabilities, to like you said, "What do I wish I had when I was going through all of this? What do I wish I had when I was growing up as a young girl, playing sports in a world, that's not really set up for that?"

And then what do you wish you had growing up as somebody who was losing their hearing and in a world that's not really set up for that. And for you to have just continued through all of these obstacles and just said, "I'll be that person. I'll go fix that. I'll be that person. I'm going to make that difference" is really just truly inspiring and incredible.

[00:30:51] Becky Clark: Well, it's really moving for me to hear you say that, but I do what I say, you know? By the way, I'm a southpaw, so the world doesn't work for me anyway...

[00:31:05] Giselle Aerni: and you can't use scissors! 

[00:31:07] Becky Clark: No one can buy my equipment because they're all right-handed. Anyway, what I'd like to, you know, say is that I've had one person in my journey. I mean, I've had a lot of mentors, but I've had one person who's particularly really been there through the years for me.

And, you know, helping me understand myself and my feelings and, and you know, why I do the things I do and, you know not so much the why, but to feel that sense of satisfaction. But in the work that I do, I'm mindful of, if there's just one person who you can trust, who you can risk to help you heal or to help them get where you need to go, regardless of whether or not you come from a traumatic background does not matter.

If there's just one person. And I try to be that one person, even if it's for a short time, whatever, whatever the circumstances are, because I want to be able to exude hope and give others, whether they're kids or adults, the hope, the inspiration, the, you know, that they are more than enough. 

And that adversity will always be there. It's how we respond. And if you have that one person, you know, you can have a whole network. Now I really go with that, you know, get your network up and you can have a network, network, network. It may change through the years, but always have, you know, networking, but if you could have it with just one person, and that one person may change through the years too.

So fortunately for me, I'm not good with that kind of change. I found it and I'm not letting go!

So, you know, if you can find it, that is so important because if you think about it, how many of us really, especially children, even have that one person? And that doesn't abuse their authority or, you know, all of that, and that you can really trust and really help them on their way and encourage them to follow their dreams.

[00:33:36] Giselle Aerni: That's beautiful. We all need that person. We're not always lucky enough to have that person, but if you can keep looking for them, if you can find, you know, maybe it is your therapist and maybe you have found Dr. Becky Clark and she's your person, because you're just putting that out into the world!

Then you're like how much, I dunno easier, but you're just going to have that one bastion of support as you're moving through life. Cause it's not easy. 

[00:34:10] Becky Clark: That's true, especially in the world today with so many options and pressure, stress. I mean, kids come home from school with all this homework and I'm like, I didn't study that till I got to college.

I was like, oh wow. You know, this world moves so much faster and we are truly a global world. People say, well, when was it never a global world, but, but you know what I mean? With all the technology now and the speed. I remember writing letters, sending it overseas and wait three weeks, maybe three weeks before it comes back. And now people say letter? What's that?

[00:34:46] Giselle Aerni: Haha, right?

[00:34:47] Becky Clark: I'm like, I'm not that old. I promise! 

[00:34:55] Giselle Aerni: Oh my goodness. Okay. So. As you do all of this. And I mean, you've talked a little bit about, you have your one person, but how do you, I'm just curious, as the expert, how do you support your mental health with your career, with these obstacles, with all these changes and stress and pressure of life and COVID, and starting a new course and trying new things and traveling and everything.

How do you support your mental health?

[00:35:21] Becky Clark: Well, supporting my mental health, I have my own therapist. And you know, people think, when you have your own therapist, it means something's wrong. No. Therapists are there to listen, to you know, just guide. I always look at a therapy relationship, this is how I practice, as a team or partnership that we're both working together and it's a relationship thing too, but you have someone that's really objective and time for yourself. 

But also other than that, swimming. That is the one sport I've never competed in.

I've been swimming since I was four. And we would water ski when I was younger too, but I love the water. There's nothing like it. Nobody can hear in the water. It doesn't matter. It's just moving. It's your whole body. It's your mind, your spirit, your soul. That's the way it is for me. It's water.

So, working out, I also enjoy I don't know, working out with weights. I used to be a personal trainer...

[00:36:36] Giselle Aerni: Right, because you needed more to do?

[00:36:39] Becky Clark: Haha, I said, okay, I need to stop some of this to have a life. But I think what it was, you know, keep too much going on. What am I running from? You know, what's going on here? But it all came together, but you know, working out, spending time with friends.

And with COVID, I think for all of us, it's been pretty isolating. But I also think with COVID with all of us having to wear masks, gets in the way for a lot of deaf people as well.

But we found ways to adapt and I've been watching how the whole COVID thing has really impacted on athletes to not being able to train. And the Olympic quad is all screwed up and, you know, politics comes into it. So, you know, I'm getting more calls, just to be that one person.

So for my own mental health, I also try to have quiet time. Quiet time. That's important, to reflect. Sometimes I fall asleep, but that's ok too! Haha.

I serve on the board at Women's Sport International an organization that has been around since 1994 giving girls and women opportunities, but we also do research and advocacy and it's a tremendous organization. And. And we're really building it. And if you build it, they will come. I mean, through the years, we've contributed a lot of the research studies in addition to just the advocacy and I'm seeing more and more girls and women around the world and in their own native countries, who are, they are, you know, creating women's sport commissions and committees. You know, you see that with a lot of the Olympics, IOC Olympic committee, the Paralympics, the Deaflympics, all of these were finally listening, but you would think we're in 2022 now, why is this taking so long? 

[00:38:51] Giselle Aerni: It is, this is I think part of why I feel so impressed with you continuing to do all this work, because sometimes it is so frustrating to see how slow it goes or how it moves backwards or how it just feels stagnant. But then you know, that one little win, that new sport, the fact that more people tuned into the women's hockey game for these recent Olympics that we're in right now, as we're recording this. And when more people are tuning in to the women's national soccer team, you know, women's world cup and we're seeing... Like it's there!

[00:39:25] Becky Clark: Well, they're being, they are being vocal, where before we were not vocal.

You know, you hear this. Oh, well, who watches women's sports? Who cares about women's sports? You know, it used to be, when you say, oh, you played like a girl, nobody says that anymore. And we have more men's sports supporting women's sport, which is important. We're not these Amazons in the jungle that were screaming, you know, these are women's rights, you know, and all that. We are who we are and it's, you know, having equal opportunity in terms of pay... don't get me started on all of that!

So I think because diversity, equity, equality and inclusion is all a part of who I am too. You know, I've been exposed to it since I was a young girl. I see what discrimination and how it can really affect your mental health as well. And your sense of agency, and now we're finding athletes, the women, as well as the men are speaking up, whether it's mental health, equal pay, equality, you know, you name it.

[00:40:33] Giselle Aerni: I love this. Okay. So I ask everyone, and we've already probably talked about several, but what particular challenges have you struggled with in your career? What things have been difficult for you or that you still struggle with today? 

[00:40:50] Becky Clark: Deafness. The inaccessibility. Even though the world is a lot more accessible, it depends on where I am. If I'm in another country, sometimes in other countries, I realize how female I am and I may not have the women's rights. And then the definition of disability is still back in the dark ages. But I manage that. 

And I have to manage where I want to go in my career now. I'm happy doing the mental performance and mental health and sports diplomacy, but what is it?

I would love to write a book and not an eBook, I want a real book in my hands! But what would I say that will work? What could I offer that would be something that people would want or need? So these are the things I think about today. What would my legacy be? And not that I need to have a legacy, but you know, I want to leave something.

I want to leave the world better than I found it. I mean, that sounds so cliché, but... 

[00:42:03] Giselle Aerni: I think that's, you know, you exuding hope. That's what you do. That's who you are. And I think that's part of having a book, having a legacy, how, when you're doing your mental health work with an Olympic athlete or a Paralympic athlete or deaf athlete.

That's that one person. But when you have a course that you're teaching at NYU, now you're going to help 25 new grad students learn mental health in athletes and take this forward. And when you have a book and when you have a legacy, when you do the sports diplomacy, and you're just like quickly going to take over the world.

[00:42:40] Becky Clark: Sure. How do you bring it all together? Sometimes I think, am I wearing too many hats? But these are the hats I've always worn. That's something that I've been working on. There's always the athlete in me that says, okay, what's next? You're never ok.

I remember the highs and the lows after competing in the Olympic festival and winning the gold and then, you know, switching over to deaf sport and representing your country then, and then coming back from a sports diplomacy trip that's been so intense for two weeks and everything.

And I find myself, you know, I feel the highs of it, but the lowest low. What now? What next? When you achieve something like maybe you got your medical degree, you get your PhD, you know, who am I? Where am I going now? But you always go to the top. I said, good enough is not good enough for me. But now I'm learning that, you know, what is enough, but without it being a negative thing.

[00:43:48] Giselle Aerni: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:43:50] Becky Clark: Can I be enough for me? And take pride in the work that I've done, in the meaningful work, the people's lives that I've touched. And, I would tell you, it's not only that I've touched their lives, that ripple effect is that every person that I have met in any part of my life in terms of this journey I've been on sports and mental health and my athletic career, my diplomacy career, my teaching career, I really take in and am inspired by others. I really do. And it's like, I want more of that. So I'll keep going. 

[00:44:57] Giselle Aerni: This is so poignant and powerful. And really just, I think something, a lot of women's struggle with, especially when you are that athlete mentality and you're that push yourself, the perfectionist that like, let's go, let's do this... That when you achieve it, then there is that, that dip, that low. That okay, now what? 

Or if you don't achieve it, right? Like it's, there's so much to feel. The way you say, how do I feel good enough for myself? How do I find a balance where I feel good about the work that I'm doing and I can continue to do good work that I'm excited about, but I don't have to feel this like pressure, this just sort of awful, it's because there's something lacking or cause I'm not doing enough or because how can feel positive. 

[00:45:53] Becky Clark: I think when you're looking at these athletes, even in the winter Olympics, right now, you're seeing those who, you know, having to deal with environmental issues with you know, the mountain, the skiers, and also those who are retiring and those who had to be isolated COVID and, you know, they're all questioning their identity and they've come this far and haven't been able to compete or the elements in this and that, and I know what they're going through.

And you know, and I see that right by myself, like, who am I now? 

[00:46:30] Giselle Aerni: Oh, yes. 

[00:46:30] Becky Clark: You know, what is my identity? Can it be all just different parts or does it always have to be that main part that you've had inside you all these years?

You may just need to adjust it or add or take away and feel good about it. That is where I am now. 

Does it mean if I don't do all these things that I'm not good enough? I think it's just this relentless thirst, the need, the want.

[00:47:15] Giselle Aerni: All right. Well, when you figure that out, we'll have you back and you can teach all of us what's the secret to that.

[00:47:20] Becky Clark: Then I can retire wealthy!

[00:47:29] Giselle Aerni: Okay. What particular triumphs have you had in your career? What things are you really proud of?

[00:47:36] Becky Clark: Surviving. 

And now it's thriving. Thriving in spite of all the adversity. 

But the triumphs of being able to compete on different levels and my education, for sure. My education has been tremendous, has opened many doors for me. And the people I've met along the way. And different problems that I've been involved with or the services that I provide.

You know, I count the little triumphs. I like the big triumphs too. It's all these little things that add up. So I have to remind myself of those at times. Rather than this relentless, go after it thing. 

[00:48:30] Giselle Aerni: Yes. It's huge. Somebody was talking about this. There was a relationship study between married couples and you have to have like five positive interactions to balance every one negative interaction.

And it's like this same thing of, you know, your brain is so attuned to be like, oh, this didn't work or, oh, I'm not there yet. Or, oh, I haven't figured this out. Instead of being like, but shoot look at all that I've, done! Like, damn I'm pretty impressive. I've actually overcome a lot. I've come a really far way. I've done amazing things and it's so easy to just not see those.

[00:49:05] Becky Clark: I think we need to remind ourselves of those, but I think also with the athlete mentality, and I'm sure you know this too, with your own sports med and your own athlete pursuits, is it's always on to the next thing. We're always looking to the better performance, the personal best, how far you can push yourself. What's next, what's next? 

And I think in real life, you know, I've even talked with my own therapist about this, she said, but Becky, that athlete mentality can be negative or in a different context. So I have had to learn and I've also started working 30 years with my athletes on that too, but really to remember your victories, your triumphs, your accomplishments, without dismissing them. That's hard for me. I said, okay, we did it, now it's gone, it's in the past.

Well, if we can take time, even in a quiet time to remember who we are and where we've been and just be in the moment. And then it sounds like mindfulness stuff that some people don't really like, but really it does work if it helps us with our own mental health and our own feelings.

And it's not something that comes naturally to me, you know, I think any athletes, okay. You know, I'm looking at this, was was it Shaun? [Shaun White] Who retired? He's been to four [five] Olympics, I'm thinking, okay, he didn't medal. He was fourth place, close enough, you know, but close enough is not enough.

But he's had three golds. He's been a guy that's been tremendous in his sport, but I wonder, now what? How he's going to deal and manage this transition? It's so important that athletes have multiple identities within themselves, multiple things that, okay, you know what, you're planning like people plan for retirement or, you know, transitions in their lives.

And that they have something, whether it's their education in a, you know, a business or training or opportunity, but it's also important to take time off after such major, you know transition. While you're in that transition to really just feel all the emotions. Cause I really thought after my competitive athletic career was over, I was lost for a year. I graduated with my PhD a year before I retired from athletics and I was totally lost. I didn't know what to do with myself. You know, 

[00:52:05] Giselle Aerni: You're like, I'm not a student, I'm not an athlete. Like what the heck am I?

[00:52:11] Becky Clark: Haha, it's "Hello Becky, how you doing?"

[00:52:13] Giselle Aerni: Haha, Yes, it's nice to meet you. Who are you? What are you up to here with your life?

[00:52:22] Becky Clark: Oh gosh. Now I really have been married to school, married to sport. Yeah. It's your whole identity your whole life, and to traveling and, meeting people and just doing your thing and everything is like discipline, And I remember the first two weeks, I was the most undisciplined person and I just couldn't do that. I thought something's wrong. Am I going crazy here? Haha, but, oh this feel's good! 

[00:52:56] Giselle Aerni: Awesome. Okay. Last question. What career advice do you have for other women? 

[00:53:04] Becky Clark: You will hit those obstacles. You will hit those adversities. You will hit a lot of, you can't do that because you're female or, you know, whatever.

I suggest, no matter what they find their one person, or someone, and network like crazy and go after those opportunities. Dare to risk. Find your courage. And the rest will fall in place. It may not be a straight line. I don't think I've ever had a straight line in my journey, but that's okay. Be okay with that. You will get where you're going. 

[00:53:41] Giselle Aerni: I love that. That is beautiful advice. This entire conversation has been magical, you're an inspiration and make me feel hope. So I just thank you so much, Becky, for coming on the podcast and sharing your story with everyone else. I think everyone's going to really get a lot out of this episode, 

[00:53:59] Becky Clark: I thank you. I've gotten a lot out of it as well. And you know, it's always a joy to be able to give back and also speak with someone like you. Thank you for what you're doing. And I mean, wow. It's just tremendous. I thought, what a name, "Madam Athlete." It's just awesome. It's powerful. And it's inspirational and it's just, you know, all the colors of the rainbow, power, and it's just light that emits.

[00:54:33] Giselle Aerni: Thank you for joining me for another episode of the Madam Athlete podcast. I feel so grateful for this conversation with Dr. Becky Clark and the work she has done to help so many athletes feel satisfaction through sports. As always, you can find out more about Becky in the show notes at https://madamathlete.com. 

Becky has had this incredible career despite childhood traumas and overcoming adversity along the way. And she is still evolving and getting after it today. And I think you can tell that she has this driving force inside her, this mission to support women and people with disabilities through sports. In the Women's Career Transformation Academy, I teach women how to find their own mission and vision and values so that they can take ownership of their careers and find their own driving force.

I created a free resource from one tiny piece of the Academy so that you can help identify your values and start building a career that is in alignment with what's important to you. Go to https://madamathlete.com/values to download your free exercise today and get started getting in alignment. It's going to be awesome!

Okay. Thank you for being here! As always, I appreciate you.