Supervising Post Producer and Writer - Bri La Rance

In this episode, I’m joined by Supervising Post Producer and Writer, Bri La Rance. Bri’s drive and determination to learn new skills led her to explore a diverse range of film and TV roles before more recently forging a path in post production, but as I find out, it’s her passion for storytelling that underpins everything she does.

Over the course of Bri's impressive career, she has worked in the writers room on Australian drama shows including Neighbours and Bite Club. More recently, her work in post production has included shows such as Australian Survivor, The Traitors, Married at First Sight and Big Brother.

If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more about the world of post production, you can listen to my chat with award-winning editor, Karen Crespo here.

CREDITS:
Host and Producer: Hayley Ferguson

Transcript

00:00:01:11 - 00:00:27:16
Hayley Ferguson
Hi, I'm Hayley Ferguson. And this is Beyond Reality, the podcast that explores the world of television production by chatting to the people behind the TV shows you love. In this episode, I'm joined by supervising post producer and writer Bree Lawrence Bree's drive and determination to learn new skills led her to explore a diverse range of film and TV roles before, more recently forging a path in post-production.

00:00:27:24 - 00:00:33:09
Hayley Ferguson
But as I find out, it's her passion for storytelling that underpins everything she does.

00:00:33:15 - 00:00:50:23
Bri La Rance
The really fun thing about post-production specifically is you kind of get to see all the work that all these hundreds of people have done, and you get to pick and choose the pieces from hundreds of hours of content to tell a really fun story. There's such a satisfaction and completing the production storytelling.

00:00:51:06 - 00:00:55:05
Hayley Ferguson
Hi, Bri. Thank you so much for joining me.

00:00:55:10 - 00:00:56:20
Bri La Rance
Well, thank you for having me. I'm very excited.

00:00:57:22 - 00:01:11:00
Hayley Ferguson
I mean, like most people that come on the podcast, we've met on Australian Survivor. I feel like everyone that comes on the podcast somehow is an Australian survivor. So we obviously met through working in post-production.

00:01:11:01 - 00:01:16:02
Bri La Rance
Yes, I think because Survivor such a big show, why everyone has Survivor on their resumé at some point.

00:01:16:24 - 00:01:25:18
Hayley Ferguson
You're currently working as a supervising post producer. Can you explain, I guess, what that actually is and what your role involves?

00:01:25:18 - 00:01:49:02
Bri La Rance
So a supervising post producer work in post-production and I'm kind of the middle ground between the post executive producer and the post producer on a series. So for example, on Survivor, you know, there's 24 episodes on Survivor and I've got a number of episodes maybe I think I've got about ten this season and the EP is kind of, you know, they manage like the big picture of the series.

00:01:49:02 - 00:02:14:16
Bri La Rance
And I help manage that big picture with a team of my post producer and editor. And so, yeah, across the series I'll sort of collaborate and help execute that. And I shot on an episode. I will be aware of what happens in that episode across those shoot days, and then I'll sort of like work in conjunction with the post producer to sort of whittle that down to a one hour episode.

00:02:14:22 - 00:02:32:18
Bri La Rance
The producer does all the grunt work, which is really hard part piecing together that story, and I'll sort of then guide the hand with curating, tweaking, driving that story in certain directions. If it's going in a, in a different path to what the, you know, the big picture EP path is supposed to be. So, yeah, I'm kind of a middle person to collaborate with the EP.

00:02:32:19 - 00:02:48:12
Bri La Rance
You also collaborate with the Post producer, and yet there's a lot of like group think, group work to try and get that episode to the end. Place You're also this extra set of eyes to a post producers work and an editors work, and I'll watch and be like, Cool. Have you thought about this? Have you thought about that?

00:02:48:12 - 00:03:03:21
Bri La Rance
Or What if we angle it this way? And then I suppose on top of that, as a supervisor, because I've got a number of episodes on my slate and I am across the series from start to finish. It's kind of also like curating some of those like long story arcs or keeping tabs on those long story arcs as well.

00:03:04:02 - 00:03:24:06
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah, I mean, post production is a very collaborative place. It's interesting because it's actually it's very individual. If you're a post producer, you know, sort of working with the rushes that you have for a certain number of days for your episode. But then there is a lot of collaboration. You collaborate with an editor, you collaborate with a post supervisor, you collaborate with your executive producer.

00:03:24:07 - 00:03:59:13
Hayley Ferguson
There's lots of collaboration and layers of collaboration in post. So I guess the post producer is laying down what they think the episode is. Yeah, the post supervisor is helping relay big picture series kind of information to that post producer so that their episode has that in mind. Because if you're just looking at a single episode without considering the other episodes, it's not going to be consistent because the directions the story could go versus where it needs to go.

00:03:59:13 - 00:04:20:14
Bri La Rance
Totally, yeah. Especially early on. Like I think that's a really important thing to raise because early on in the series you write, there's like 24 characters or whatever. Like that's that's a lot of voices. And especially if there's a lot of big characters, you're like, Oh, this is great stories in here. And sometimes the hardest thing is to let go of something that's, Oh, this is a really good moment here between these two people that have got banter that's really funny.

00:04:20:14 - 00:04:39:08
Bri La Rance
And sometimes you have to like, kill your darlings because you're actually like, Oh, that's so not relevant to any of the stories I'm telling here. And sometimes when I was a post producer, your natural inclination is to go, Oh, that's fun, let's put that in. But if it's too random or you can't contextualize it, and we often try to the episode sometimes then we'll get really full of stuff that makes no sense at all.

00:04:39:08 - 00:04:56:16
Bri La Rance
And then that's where you need that extra person to be. Like, Here's some broad strokes. This is kind of the overarching stuff that we need people, the characters that we're sort of following, you know? And if you're episode five, you like, All right, who have we followed so far? And your supervisor should help sort of inform that because there's so many lenses you can tell a story from this.

00:04:56:16 - 00:05:16:09
Bri La Rance
So like everyone gets interviewed in the field as well. All these characters have a perspective on stuff and you know, you have to sort of pick a line to say and if that line is wrong and there's no one sort of guiding that, then you can end up down a rabbit hole. And then you're very close to some major screenings and you have to do a lot of unpicking if you have no support.

00:05:16:09 - 00:05:36:23
Bri La Rance
So it's super crucial to have like all of that collaboration, you know, and the exciting part on that is sometimes, you know, as a supervisor, you be like, great post producer. He's, you know, you're episode heating these things. You know, he's the main sort of threads and then they'll go forth and like build some, you know, an episode that they think works around that based on the content that exists.

00:05:36:23 - 00:05:54:14
Bri La Rance
And then they'll come back with something that you try, you know, as a suit. Sometimes I'll be like, Wow, that's so not what I was picturing, but it totally works. And that's a really exciting part of collaboration because they'll bring in that a totally different spin on something that I wasn't even imagining. And then I can, yes, end about me like, Oh, great, yeah.

00:05:54:14 - 00:06:02:03
Bri La Rance
Oh yeah. It's a really interesting way of thinking about this. And when there's yeah, when there's loads of collaboration, you get actually really exciting storytelling. Yeah.

00:06:02:03 - 00:06:28:20
Hayley Ferguson
And I think when collaboration is at its best is when the series just feels like it flows and it, it's coherent, it doesn't feel like there are up to sometimes 24 different post producers making an episode. It feels like a consistent series that makes sense. And you have those moments where you get to at 12, he's like, Oh, remember what happened in EP two?

00:06:28:21 - 00:06:33:09
Hayley Ferguson
That plays into that. So yeah, I think the collaboration process is really important.

00:06:33:15 - 00:06:49:05
Bri La Rance
Yeah, very much so. Yeah. And it's those big callbacks to like, yes, if I'm building it, you know, if I'm post producing an episode of it too, I'm probably not going to be aware of like a big moment that happens in September and I'm setting up. So that's where the Soup EP would have come down from the EP being aware of that too.

00:06:49:11 - 00:07:06:13
Bri La Rance
But The Soup then conveying that and how do we execute, you know, this, this simple moment in episode two that links to the story, but it's not a massive thing. But in at ten it comes out again and you're like, great. So you kind of want the producer to be aware of setting up those story anchors to go back on later.

00:07:06:20 - 00:07:11:07
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah, it's planting the seed, laying the groundwork for a really rich storytelling.

00:07:11:13 - 00:07:13:06
Bri La Rance
Yeah, absolutely. Definitely.

00:07:13:15 - 00:07:20:10
Hayley Ferguson
Sorry. Let's rewind back to where it all began or before it all began. Did you always want to work in TV?

00:07:20:10 - 00:07:42:06
Bri La Rance
You know, I suppose not necessarily. When I was younger, you know, uni days per uni days, I didn't know that there was work in television, especially reality television. Yeah, it just wasn't really something that was I was aware of or talked about and I was more interested in like film and I was really into wanting to be an actor for a lot of that as well.

00:07:42:17 - 00:07:56:16
Bri La Rance
But I knew the reality of like, Oh, you can't just like, you know, just go to Sydney. I grew up in a small town outside of Sydney, so I was like, I'm going to go to the big smoke and make it. There was none of that. So I went to uni, did journalism and international studies for a little bit, and then shifted gears out of that.

00:07:56:16 - 00:08:20:10
Bri La Rance
But it was always like I wanted to be in some area of telling stories in some capacity. TV Yeah, but it was always scripted, never reality, mainly film. I was like, I want to do film. Yes, I want to either star in film, I want to write film, I want to just work in film and to some degree and mainly just around knowledge like yeah, just, just not being aware that there was consistent work in television.

00:08:20:19 - 00:08:53:04
Bri La Rance
And in my mind I was like, Oh, cool, I don't want to just make film over in this fantasy land. But Australia doesn't really well at the time didn't really make a lot of film and even if they did, it was kind of the same crews that would circle around in that sort of like space, you know. And yeah, I tried to like whittle my way into film and I was a runner and I did art department sort of stuff through university years and broadly, I always knew it needed to be some sort of form of storytelling in a creative sense and TV's best place to land for that, because of course you have the

00:08:53:04 - 00:09:06:24
Bri La Rance
most consistent work season one, season two, season three, you know, there's work in television. So did I always want to work in TV? I think I always wanted to work in story. And TV just happened to be where you could tap into that most consistently.

00:09:07:05 - 00:09:34:09
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah, I think that's really interesting because I also studied journalism. Yeah. And I think that when I eventually found myself in reality TV that was like that realization that what I like to do is storytelling. And I'd always loved reality TV, so it was just the perfect combination of those sort of skills and passions that I had. And then also like working in a really, really fun place.

00:09:34:15 - 00:10:06:03
Bri La Rance
Yeah, exactly. And I think reality TV's quite satisfying in the sense that there are millions of different people coming together to make the thing happen. And it's really exciting in that sense that everyone comes on, they play their important part, and then there's an end product. The really fun thing about TV and in post-production specifically is you kind of get to see all the work that all these hundreds of people have done, and you get to the exciting part, which is you to stitch the threads and pick and choose the pieces from hundreds of hours of content to tell a really fun story.

00:10:06:10 - 00:10:30:12
Bri La Rance
And then we get the real satisfaction of seeing it all the way through. And even as a supervisor now as well, where, you know, I get to see multiple episodes and sometimes a whole series all the way through to completion. And then, you know, then I get to see it on air a few weeks or months later. And there's such a satisfaction in like completing the task, completing the, the product of storytelling of something that's so big.

00:10:30:21 - 00:10:47:16
Bri La Rance
And the yeah, the beauty of post-production is you kind of get to, to witness and build that too. So yeah, to be it comes with not only some access to consistent work, but it also comes with this great sense of professional satisfaction in storytelling, which we don't always get in other areas.

00:10:47:19 - 00:10:58:05
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah, definitely. And you mentioned that while you were at uni you were doing like running on different sets. Can you talk me through those early jobs that you were doing?

00:10:58:14 - 00:11:23:14
Bri La Rance
Yes, one could say I was a master of none. Yeah. So through university, I jumped into just a bunch of runner jobs on random things. You know, there were a few movies, feature films in Sydney that I managed to get my hands onto. And yeah, it was just like long hours, night shoots, the grind, going to get coffees off to the idea to get random snacks because I'd run out like it was just, you know, run runner stuff.

00:11:23:19 - 00:11:29:05
Bri La Rance
And then I ended up sort of progressing into art department assist stuff.

00:11:29:13 - 00:11:31:06
Hayley Ferguson
Was this while you were still at uni.

00:11:31:12 - 00:11:54:01
Bri La Rance
While still uni? So yeah. And like I'd always jump into like night shoots or weekend shoots or during break because obviously uni has those bigger sort of awkward breaks. And this also progressed into as I was sort of finishing uni, but it always be me finding these pockets of opportunity at random times in university, often unpaid as well because it was like, you know, I suppose back then or maybe now it still happens to.

00:11:54:02 - 00:12:13:19
Bri La Rance
But there was a lot of like just do the work unpaid, build your resumé, etc. But yeah, running progressed into sort of art department assistant. I did that for a little bit on some very modest, humble Australian page films and TV commercials too. So that was where it was. I could get a little bit of money in TV commercials, which is good.

00:12:13:23 - 00:12:41:10
Bri La Rance
But yeah, I'd also dabble in like helping some random companies get locations for TV commercials. And at one point I was a first assistant director of a feature film just as I was finishing uni, and it was actually over the Christmas break. That's when they made this film and it was like a six week shoot and I kind of really put myself out there and I'd done some like first aid days type stuff as well and a lot of shock films and I'd just like really put myself out there to first day on this feature film.

00:12:41:10 - 00:12:59:00
Bri La Rance
I had like a very small budget of like half a million for a feature film was not much, but it was still have enough stuff behind it and big crew that it was a big undertaking and oh my God, it almost killed me. But I learned so much in that process. But I was like, great. At the end of that, I realized I did not want to be a first ID at all, so it was helpful.

00:12:59:10 - 00:13:03:00
Hayley Ferguson
What made you put yourself forward for that kind of role?

00:13:03:03 - 00:13:21:08
Bri La Rance
It's funny because like I was like, Oh, I'd like to try this and I understand what's required fundamentally. And I had small bouts of experience, but nothing as big as that. And I just kind of just came in with confidence and I was like, I'd like to do this and let's do it, you know? And they took it.

00:13:21:11 - 00:13:41:22
Bri La Rance
They took a gamble on me, and it was excellent, but it was very, very, very hard. And so it was a huge learning curve. And yeah, by the end of it I realized that's the scenario I'm just not particularly interested in. So I was like, Great, done moving on. So yeah, run a staff, art department, assist, location scout first aid or more technical side.

00:13:41:22 - 00:13:54:03
Bri La Rance
Yeah. So it's kind of like just dribs and drabs of random, random things in that sense. While I was sort of figuring out the film and television industry in Australia, which was kind of concentrated in like the Sydney space, I.

00:13:54:03 - 00:14:15:17
Hayley Ferguson
Love how you put yourself forward for first day on a feature film like that's a big deal kind of role. And I think when youre 21, you know, 22 years old, that's the kind of time where you just seem to have like all the confidence in the world without the experience to back you up. And I feel like if I could channel that now, like, yeah.

00:14:15:17 - 00:14:16:05
Bri La Rance
I know I could.

00:14:16:20 - 00:14:22:08
Hayley Ferguson
Use some of that confidence rather than like being much more experience with all the self-doubt.

00:14:22:15 - 00:14:42:05
Bri La Rance
Yeah, I know. It was very brash and so stupid, but also like no regrets, you know, now. But I went in totally having no fucking clue what I was doing. Like, really, honestly, I remember at one point I was like Googling like, just like basic stuff. And so there was a lot of like learning as I went. And kudos to the team for taking a huge gamble on.

00:14:42:05 - 00:14:48:21
Bri La Rance
I think I was 22 at the time and they didn't know that. I'd really say, you know, I'm so young. But I think they probably figured because.

00:14:48:21 - 00:14:49:05
Speaker 3
I was like.

00:14:50:07 - 00:15:11:10
Bri La Rance
Fresh as a daisy cane as could function perfectly fine off no sleep where I'm complete opposite now but yeah it was it was it was definitely fueled by 20 something you know Bree having no sense of consequence or whatever or just a great sense of ambition. Blind and just blind ambition being like, Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, I can do that.

00:15:11:10 - 00:15:17:13
Bri La Rance
Yeah, totally. Give me the job. And then getting the job, being like this would be fine.

00:15:17:13 - 00:15:30:07
Hayley Ferguson
So you spent a year through uni kind of dabbling in all these different roles, trying things out once you finish uni, what happened next? Like what was the path to a career?

00:15:30:11 - 00:15:49:23
Bri La Rance
Once I finished uni, the one thing I was desperate for was just like consistent work. Well, just a full time job, you know, just be like, great. Landed in a job and randomly had a housemate who worked in television kind of. It was kind of like 24 hour TV, but not quite 24 hour TV. And there was a job going on.

00:15:49:24 - 00:15:58:11
Bri La Rance
I actually think there was a job going. I just hounded this guy to be like, Can you please put my resume forward to work in TV? He was an audio director.

00:15:58:20 - 00:16:03:24
Hayley Ferguson
When you say 24 hour TV, do you mean like a news service or do you mean like home shopping?

00:16:04:02 - 00:16:22:08
Bri La Rance
It was actually sky racing's like horse racing, which I don't condone at all, but a horse racing broadcast network. And I had no idea it was so big. I just hounded my housemate. I knew that he worked there. He was an audio director. Did I know what that meant? Not really. I was like, Get me a job. Let's do it.

00:16:22:08 - 00:16:44:19
Bri La Rance
Get me a job in in TV if you can. I be great in your field. And he put my name forward and a while later of more hounding and I ended up getting an interview and somehow they gave me the job as an audio director, which essentially means my entire day is on a sound mixing desk, like larger than my physical self.

00:16:44:19 - 00:17:02:14
Bri La Rance
Like I had a wheelchair that I would like wheels from one side of the mixing desk all the way to the other to like get the fighter up so that the person out in the field, you know, I can capture his audio or whatever. That was a lot of learning on the job. So I think the people knew me going when I went into this that I had to be taught a lot of this stuff.

00:17:02:14 - 00:17:05:17
Bri La Rance
So I was just genuinely gripped almost like, whatever, give me the job.

00:17:06:05 - 00:17:08:13
Hayley Ferguson
That sounds like quite a technical job.

00:17:08:13 - 00:17:32:22
Bri La Rance
It was 100% technical, like 100% technical. It was an entirely different area. And you know, funnily enough, at university I did take a sound design subject, so I was like, I got this. Yeah. But then nothing really prepared me for like audio directing in, you know, in broadcast TV. Very different. Yes, very technical. Technically, your audio mixing on live television, sound engineering to a certain extent as well.

00:17:33:05 - 00:17:53:17
Bri La Rance
And your majority of the whole job is your glued to this massive mixing desk and you're doing quite complex tasks, actually. And if you put me sometimes I'd have nightmares now like where I am plonked in front of an audio mixing desk and I now I would have absolutely no clue what to do at all. And sometimes I'd be like, Oh Jesus, imagine if that happened today.

00:17:54:01 - 00:17:57:22
Bri La Rance
Kind of like I've kind of let go of the knowledge in a way, because it was like to dance and so much.

00:17:57:23 - 00:17:58:06
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah.

00:17:58:14 - 00:18:14:00
Bri La Rance
I was there for a number of years and that saw me through that post uni awkward like I need a job to pay rent fees and I mean I still had that all through uni but I was like, not now I've got a degree. I want to like do something serious that's beyond the extra other bits and pieces that I did through uni to, to survive.

00:18:14:01 - 00:18:17:07
Bri La Rance
But yeah, that was my first sort of serious gig out of university.

00:18:17:10 - 00:18:29:01
Hayley Ferguson
So you were working as an audio director for a number of years, but obviously your passion was storytelling. So what happened next for you?

00:18:29:08 - 00:18:49:05
Bri La Rance
Yeah. So during audio directing, I still really wanted to be in the acting sort of world. I also had a second job where I would teach acting at a school in Sydney in 2 to 3 days a week or so, and meanwhile trying to make it in Sydney as an actor, very, very tough time. And then I was like, Screw it, I'm going to go to L.A., let's go to L.A. That was a great course.

00:18:49:05 - 00:19:07:18
Bri La Rance
That was like a three month course, full time course at like an acting school thing. And I was like going to dove right in and just do that. So I packed up my whole lot and I also at the same time got a visa to Canada. So I knew I'm going to do this thing in L.A. and then I can go to Canada and sort of start a new life.

00:19:09:11 - 00:19:35:01
Bri La Rance
And so I moved to Los Angeles and yeah, I did this acting school, which was grueling and really exciting and awesome and fun. So I stayed in Los Angeles for about six months and moved to Canada to continue this acting thing, got an agent and Canada was really exciting because it just has a lot of audition turnover. So every week I was in the audition room auditioning for Supernatural or this new Marvel skill.

00:19:35:01 - 00:19:55:17
Bri La Rance
Like it's such a moving and shaking industry over there. I was also like, I need a job to pay this rent anyway. So I got another technical job in like events and I worked as sort of like a light rigger and did the sound mixing stuff, saw a lot of live events that they would have sometimes it was like a Comic-Con style event that they would have or like a big panel show or, you know, sort of stuff like that.

00:19:55:17 - 00:20:13:08
Bri La Rance
So I worked for an events company in that capacity, which is sort of like a weird sort of sidestep from audio directing and TV, more technical stuff, learning like rigging. And I was like, Great, you know, sure, let's learn this new skill. And it was a great job because they were very flexible with me dashing off to do auditions all the time.

00:20:13:11 - 00:20:21:06
Hayley Ferguson
When you were living in Canada and you were going to all these auditions for acting roles, did you land anything while you were there?

00:20:21:18 - 00:20:40:11
Bri La Rance
Actually, the first audition that I ever had when I was in Canada, my agent sent this to me and she's like, I don't know how you feel about this one, but just have a look. Anyway, I'm like, okay. So I had to audition as this like creature that they reference does like a dog mix between Gollum and I was like, The fuck is this?

00:20:40:17 - 00:20:56:02
Bri La Rance
And it was for a TV commercial. So usually you're not given much more than that. You just have to show up and then they give you a bit of a rundown of what you have to do. And so all I had was kind of this reference point of this animal that I sort of had to be. I think I didn't show up like, you know, dressed as anything peculiar.

00:20:56:02 - 00:21:17:04
Bri La Rance
I just kind of like I was like, okay, well, I'm just kind of as neutral as possible. And then, yeah, on the day I did this audition and the creature was a mammoth, which I was like, Oh, okay, that's like a mountain marsupial type thing, which I didn't really know at the time. And yeah, it was a very like physical theater style audition, which is really weird and interesting and fun and liberating.

00:21:17:06 - 00:21:31:17
Bri La Rance
And for TV commercial auditions, there was an animation component to it. So there was this animation team that was there that was like the director and then a bunch of executives as well. I've been to a lot of auditions where it's just like two people, you know, the casting people usually. So I was a bit like, Oh, this is bizarre.

00:21:32:01 - 00:21:47:02
Bri La Rance
For my first audition. Anyway, I did the audition, had two callbacks after that for a TV commercial, which in my experience hasn't happened before. But yeah, it was a commercial that it just was it felt like a big deal. I was like, There's a lot happening here. And anyway, randomly ended up landing the gig.

00:21:49:00 - 00:21:49:14
Hayley Ferguson
And it turned.

00:21:49:14 - 00:21:51:03
Bri La Rance
Out it was a Super Bowl commercial.

00:21:52:02 - 00:21:53:07
Hayley Ferguson
Wow.

00:21:53:19 - 00:22:03:12
Bri La Rance
Yeah. And I was this weird marsupial creature that was a moment that was entirely animated. So I thank God for that. And on the day.

00:22:03:12 - 00:22:06:09
Hayley Ferguson
You still like movement? Yeah.

00:22:06:12 - 00:22:25:10
Bri La Rance
Yeah. So I was dressed in this sort of like grace sort of outfit, and we filmed over a couple of days in like the mountains of Canada, and it was random and fun and strange. And yeah, it was a Super Bowl ad, which they don't really tell you. It's the Super Bowl ad until like after the fact. And you're like, Oh, wow, this is what it's for.

00:22:25:10 - 00:22:44:19
Bri La Rance
Okay, that's why there's a bit of fuss going on because as I kept going back to those callbacks, the executive team started to get bigger and bigger and bigger. And finally, like soon enough, there was like 12 people in the room. And I'm just like doing this weird, contorted, physical stop in front of the camera. Being a mom, it's because acting.

00:22:45:06 - 00:23:01:10
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah, I loved it, you know, you picture you going to the U.S., going to Canada to become an actor and you go into this audition, it actually ends up being a huge commercial, a Super Bowl commercial. And you were a marmot.

00:23:01:16 - 00:23:18:06
Bri La Rance
I know. Yeah. Yeah. It kind of worked in the opposite in a way, because it was like I kind of pictured it when it was sold to me is like, Oh, you got this audition, you're going to be this random creature. I was like, Okay, that seems odd and bizarre. And fine. I just thought it was like this small.

00:23:18:06 - 00:23:44:01
Bri La Rance
Nothing. Yeah, nothing. A rubber audition. Off we go in. And yeah, the shock of, like, as each callback progressed, I was like, this is a big team, people. What is this? And then when I rocked up on that first day of set, it was, yeah, it just was like, Oh, this is this. There's a lot behind this. And I think because they were also animating huge components of it, there was a lot of technical stuff that needed to exist there, which meant there were additional teams, maybe then it's more traditional TV commercials.

00:23:44:01 - 00:23:49:03
Bri La Rance
So it was very much like, Oh wow, this is my first big gig in Canada and it feels big.

00:23:49:11 - 00:23:51:22
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah, incredible. So what happened next?

00:23:51:24 - 00:24:10:02
Bri La Rance
When I was in Canada, I kind of got linked with a production company who is an Australian sort of production company, but we're around at the time and they were doing a lot of story development. Yeah, that's kind of where I got into like developing scripted content and would help them do their pitch decks and sizzle reels and develop some of the scripted stuff with them.

00:24:10:02 - 00:24:30:00
Bri La Rance
And when I ended up moving back to Australia, that company was also in a move back to Australia too, and we ended up getting Screen Australia funding to do some longform content. And so I ended up co-writing this like longform pilot with another writer and was like, I really do enjoy writing. And that was kind of like the first time I got paid to do writing.

00:24:30:00 - 00:24:55:01
Bri La Rance
And that kind of opened the gateway to more writers rooms in Australia, a world that I wasn't particularly familiar with. So I sort of dove into the world of writer's assistant work, which is where you're in the writer's room and you basically follow the story track and you have to note all the stories stuff down. So I kind of like kept pushing that angle and getting a few writers rooms here and there for usually TV series, the odd feature film here or there, which is really great.

00:24:55:08 - 00:25:10:09
Bri La Rance
At one point I was like, I really want to get into the neighbors writers room and see what that's like. And I, I had a friend who knew Rick Maier who, you know, and Charlton, Rick Maier, and I was like, Great. Can we reach out to Rick Maier and basically call called him and then just like, can I have a meeting?

00:25:10:09 - 00:25:25:11
Bri La Rance
And then I like rocked up to his office and was like, Hey, so I want to be in the writers room with neighbors. And he's like, I thought, I think he was just almost like taken aback with how like, I just rocked up and was like, I would love to do this, this and this is How can you help me?

00:25:25:11 - 00:25:35:13
Bri La Rance
Anyway, he helped me get into the writers room. Not to say that I didn't have to do all the steps to get in there because I do an internship, but I end up getting into the neighbors writers room just for that internship, which is really great.

00:25:35:14 - 00:25:40:18
Hayley Ferguson
Can you just explain what is a writer's room to someone who might not know? So the industry.

00:25:40:23 - 00:26:01:05
Bri La Rance
Yeah, of course. So a writer's room, a scripted writer's room is essentially just a bunch of writers. And then in the writers room, you kind of break the back of the story. In a writer's room, always have writers, assistant or a note taker, and usually that note taker has to capture everything in the room. But the writer's room is kind of made up of a mishmash of these sort of creatives in that sense.

00:26:01:10 - 00:26:24:05
Bri La Rance
And they're together for several weeks, sometimes months, depending on budget, to break the back of the series or an episode and then report that back to the developing company or whoever's throwing money at it per say. Yeah, these writers rooms are very laborious but exciting, and they go for like, you know, big, long days and you learn a lot as a storyteller in that sense.

00:26:24:05 - 00:26:27:00
Bri La Rance
And also just how to build a series from the ground up.

00:26:27:03 - 00:26:38:07
Hayley Ferguson
So you got yourself a meeting at Channel ten and you managed to make your way into the writers room or neighbors is a complete staple in Australian television. How did that go?

00:26:38:10 - 00:26:57:24
Bri La Rance
Yeah. So in the writers room I was observing and note taking. By the end of my time there as an intern writer's room internship, I had to then write out like a treatment script. So I was paying attention to everything in the room because I was going to write a treatment script for that week. It's kind like a condensed beat sheet of what happens in this episode.

00:26:57:24 - 00:27:18:06
Bri La Rance
All the series in this case, it was a beat sheet for what's going to happen in this episode. And so at the end of this internship, the goal was to sort of present that and be like, Here's what everyone and everybody will be doing, and I'm going to, you know, do the same thing. And it wasn't just the writers room because it was so many episodes spinning, because it got so many episodes each week that they ate.

00:27:18:06 - 00:27:42:21
Bri La Rance
So this big teams just like continuously moving in departments. So you'd have your writer's room where you're breaking the back of the new episode, and then we'd go into like the script editing space where the script editor would have notes on episode 65 for next week, the one that's a little bit further along the line, and you'd hear their notes and their feedback on the writer's script that's now in physical script form.

00:27:43:00 - 00:28:08:07
Bri La Rance
And then we'd have another meeting about the ins and outs of some technical stuff and solving some things, or this term can't be said, some legal stuff. So I kind of got exposed to a lot of the mechanics of how a writers room or an idea goes from that space on a whiteboard to pre-production the night before. And it was really interesting, but most of my time was spent in this writer's room preparing me to just write this treatment of the episode that I was paying attention to.

00:28:08:10 - 00:28:13:13
Bri La Rance
And then so culminated in that sort of me writing this treatment, handing it over to be like great, you know, be in touch.

00:28:14:05 - 00:28:26:12
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah. So in a writer's room, essentially, that's sort of the brainstorming sessions of developing an episode. And then does one writer write the episode from that treatment?

00:28:26:17 - 00:28:50:08
Bri La Rance
Yeah. So usually whoever's writing that episode will absolutely be in the room contributing and sometimes that brainstorming whittles all the way down to like. And then they'll say this one line, you know, and they hold onto this one line that they think is amazing, but yet essentially there's one person in that room who will usually write this script or that episode depending, you know, if it's if it's a series that, you know, one or team of two people are writing, they'll be part of that entire process.

00:28:50:08 - 00:29:09:00
Bri La Rance
They would say enablers. There's that one person in the room who's writing that episode for that week. Sometimes it's in-house, sometimes it's freelance. There are a lot of people who just make a living out of jumping to writer's room from writer's room to writer's room. Great. We're going to be in this writer's room for three days for my episode or a week for my episode, and I'm paid to write that episode.

00:29:09:05 - 00:29:20:01
Bri La Rance
And I've got a deadline of two weeks to write the episode based off what we've gone through with that writer's room. But the writer's room so helpful in terms of, Oh, I know exactly where I need to go with the story. I just need to flesh it out more. And that's the fun part. Yeah.

00:29:20:04 - 00:29:41:08
Hayley Ferguson
So to this point, you've done so many different things in film and television from technical roles to really creative roles like acting to being in the writers room and developing scripts. How did you find your way to reality TV?

00:29:41:08 - 00:29:58:02
Bri La Rance
So after all of this, like writer's room sort of stuff, I ended up actually going into the academic world because it was all about I needed consistent work. So for a period of time I was a lecturer at a university and I would teach screenwriting and I did that for a number of years. But I soon realized, Oh, I'm not progressing.

00:29:58:07 - 00:30:21:20
Bri La Rance
The students in front of me are, which is so exciting and rewarding to see. But for me personally in my career movement, I didn't feel like I was progressing, so I needed to make that step. And that's where I was like, I'm going to find these opportunities in the reality world. And it was a really random job that was posted on one of those Facebook job pages, which, you know, I want to be one of those people that's like back in my day, but back in my day it didn't exist.

00:30:21:20 - 00:30:38:19
Bri La Rance
That sort of stuff like accessibility to these sorts of jobs was often word of mouth, and that's really honestly how I got into a lot of these things was, Oh, you have got that connection. Great, can you help me get in or you've got this job there are great. Can you put in a good word for me like it's all it was pretty old school in that sense.

00:30:38:19 - 00:30:44:04
Bri La Rance
And yeah, my first gig in reality television was in a show called 20 to 1 with Channel Nine.

00:30:44:10 - 00:30:51:24
Hayley Ferguson
That's that countdown show of the best 20 to 1 Best moments of all time or ...

00:30:51:24 - 00:31:12:13
Bri La Rance
Yeah. Yeah, that's that one. And it's very fast paced, very exciting, very funny television and yeah, there was this job post, I think for researcher slash associate producer for this show, and 20 to 1 has a lot of clip content, you know, it's got a lot of like all this video from YouTube about these stunt guys and that got a million hits or whatever.

00:31:12:16 - 00:31:33:08
Bri La Rance
So those lot of research in terms of the the stuff that was around that. So I was like, great, this is different. I haven't done this before and I know there's a lot of work in reality television because by this stage I had some close people around me who had worked in reality TV and I was just learning that this is a world that there's actually a lot of stuff happening in terms of the mechanics of that world.

00:31:33:08 - 00:31:51:19
Bri La Rance
I wasn't particularly familiar with it, but I knew that was work and that that's something that certainly excited me, especially when I landed boots on the ground back in Australia with kind of no job or money. So I was like, Great, I need the thing and this is where this job came up. So I stepped into researching, slash, associate producing.

00:31:51:24 - 00:32:04:22
Bri La Rance
I felt like a fish out of water. But when I landed and I was like, Oh, actually, this is this is achievable. I can I can do this work. And I realized I like the poster of space. You know, you don't have to be on on set, as you would know in the field at 2 a.m. in the morning.

00:32:04:22 - 00:32:16:13
Bri La Rance
You know, like I think if you have, haven't I kind of like the idea of I can do like a 9 to 7 or 8 to 6 date in an office. And that's kind of nice compared to the chaos of my past.

00:32:16:13 - 00:32:16:24
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah.

00:32:17:06 - 00:32:30:18
Bri La Rance
And yeah. So that was kind of my first in with, with that. And I kind of had to sell myself because they were like, Oh, we're taking a gamble on you with no real experience in this particular area. But I was like, But look at all these other areas that I have that I can bring to it.

00:32:30:19 - 00:32:53:04
Hayley Ferguson
Which is it's actually a hard sell, not because your experience isn't relevant and very transferable, but people in different areas of television can be very narrow minded in terms of all that's your experience, but you don't have experience in reality TV or you don't have experience in commercials.

00:32:53:09 - 00:32:53:17
Bri La Rance
Yeah.

00:32:53:18 - 00:33:01:16
Hayley Ferguson
And I like I know how hard it is to try and transfer over. So you obviously made a good impression and found your way.

00:33:01:23 - 00:33:18:21
Bri La Rance
I don't know. I mean, yes, maybe there was maybe they were desperate. Maybe it was just timing. But a lot of these things is always about good timing and someone giving you someone giving you the grace to or them having the broadness to see all. Maybe this person has got, you know, something that will work in this space.

00:33:18:21 - 00:33:39:18
Bri La Rance
But I do understand, like, it's certainly valid for someone to be like, oh, you know, if I was hiring for something, you kind of want to hire the best person for the job. And sometimes that, you know, the person with a random resume might not be the right fit. That is, this can be a gamble. But I do remember expressing how keen I was and I think they were probably interested in the fact that I was just so damn keen for this job.

00:33:40:11 - 00:33:41:12
Bri La Rance
And, well, let's give her a chance.

00:33:41:12 - 00:34:03:21
Hayley Ferguson
She's desperate to some extent, I think, enthusiasm and having that kind of varied experience over someone that might have experience in the right area, but is over their job. And, you know, maybe a bit cynical, it's one of those things and it's something that comes up in the industry a lot, I think.

00:34:03:21 - 00:34:27:24
Bri La Rance
Yeah, I think there's something to be said about that keenness for sure. Like if I have a new producer on the slate of episodes that I have a new post producer, sorry, and they're extremely keen. That keenness usually means there's a hunger to learn. And from that hunger to learn means that they will improve and from that means that the work will usually be good and or get better with feedback.

00:34:27:24 - 00:34:43:17
Bri La Rance
And my job is to give feedback anyway. So you kind of get great. There will be progression here and I think then that sort of takes the risk of jeopardy away sometimes from being like, okay, let's hire this person and all you need to do is just help guide that energy in the right places.

00:34:43:17 - 00:34:52:13
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah. And so you had your first job in the reality TV space on 22 one. And what was kind of the next moments that saw you progressed to where you are now?

00:34:52:14 - 00:35:19:10
Bri La Rance
Also back in 2021, I was someone that I worked with on 22, one who I still work with today, Ben Gahan, looking at you, who he put me in touch with the right people to get a job on Lego Masters Season one. As a post associate producer, that's probably more of an official role in post-production. 20 to 1 was more like as slash post IP, so I was kind of like a bit of a toddler in the post space, and it was only a short gig for a couple of weeks.

00:35:19:15 - 00:35:44:07
Bri La Rance
But that was my first job with Endemol Shine. Australia and BSA are big juggernauts of the industry and I was very much like, okay, this is a step up now. And before I took that job I did not know avid editing program that we use at all. And so at the tail end of 22 one, there was an editor there who was gracious enough to sort of teach me just some really basic, sort of avid that I could convincingly do this job.

00:35:44:07 - 00:35:58:16
Bri La Rance
So I went into like a master's and I was figuring out my way on Avid while also trying to do my job. And I remember several times pillaging the poor. Editors sustain being like, Hey, can you help me with this very simple task? And I'm so sorry for pulling away from your job to teach me to do mine.

00:35:59:02 - 00:36:01:02
Hayley Ferguson
Edit assist to the best of you.

00:36:01:02 - 00:36:03:23
Bri La Rance
So amazing. And I was so patient with me and they put.

00:36:04:01 - 00:36:05:22
Hayley Ferguson
In really dumb question questions.

00:36:06:12 - 00:36:23:17
Bri La Rance
They do and mine was so dumb that I needed them to physically show me on Avatar. So I did like keep going to get one of the editors to walk them back down the hall to my to my little office space and show me how do I mark in and out from a timeline. And they're very patient with me and very helpful.

00:36:23:24 - 00:36:44:05
Bri La Rance
And I kind of learned Avid on the job in that space so that two weeks I'm pretty sure I was not helpful at all to the team on Lego masters and back in the day I was working with an editor called Toby Travel, who's now an executive producer on Survivor with me now. And I remember I asked him a few weeks ago, do you remember when I worked with you on Lego Masters all those years ago?

00:36:44:05 - 00:37:00:23
Bri La Rance
And he's like, No, I did not. And I clearly did not leave any impression because I'm pretty sure I had no idea what I was doing. And they just were kind enough, keep me on. But then after Lego Masters, I did a couple more posts, associate producer jobs on like Ambulance Australia was one. There might have been another show in the somewhere.

00:37:00:23 - 00:37:23:18
Bri La Rance
And then I got an opportunity on like the block to associate produce and I did that for a little bit. And then they were like, Actually, we can probably give you an episode. So I took on an episode for the first time as a post producer, and that was where I sort of learned to cut my teeth as a longer form storyteller and bring in all of these sort of tools and pieces of knowledge that I had because of post associate producer role.

00:37:24:04 - 00:37:43:21
Bri La Rance
You are not necessarily long asking anything. You're pulling pieces. Sometimes you're building some scenes for the post producer who you're working with, if you can, depending on the show. But there's quite a leap between post associate producer and post producer. Post producer you're having a whole episode. You have to sort of work that out and build from beginning to end with an editor teams.

00:37:43:23 - 00:38:02:16
Bri La Rance
And that was kind of my first crack at that and it was quite a short succession between that first 20 to 1 gig and post producing my first episode. It was within the same year and I was a little bit intimidated. But I also realized, oh, this actually felt like it did feel like a natural progression into that sort of space of storytelling.

00:38:03:00 - 00:38:06:24
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah. And what did it feel like to actually be working in this area of television?

00:38:07:06 - 00:38:25:23
Bri La Rance
I think at the time I just I didn't quite realize how big it was. You know, when I worked on mass narrative and had and was producing an episode on that, I was like, Oh, this is this is big. Like they make this big television and then they've got a big audience and there's big teams and everyone's very good at their job.

00:38:26:09 - 00:38:43:07
Bri La Rance
And I don't think I was necessarily fairly intimidated. Maybe I was, because I was like, Wow, I'm fish out of water here. But I think because I'd spent so many times being a fish out of water in so many other areas of my career, I was kind of excited. I'm always excited to be a fish out of water because I think I was always excited to learn new things.

00:38:43:07 - 00:39:04:03
Bri La Rance
And so this just felt like an exciting new thing. But what was really special about, you know, working in this area of reality television was I wasn't just exercising the technical, but I was also bringing together the storytelling brain. And this was the first sort of time that these two worlds were able to come together because, you know, you spend all your time on Avid.

00:39:04:06 - 00:39:31:14
Bri La Rance
There's a lot of that technical element of working with the editor and the work that they do is entirely creative. But I suppose as a note, giving notes on that is there's a technical element to that understanding what works and what doesn't. So yeah, it was a natural progression that I never realized existed in reality TV, where this area of storytelling is incredibly technical and it's also incredibly creative, and I could bring these two parts of my brain that I didn't realize I'd kind of been curating over the years.

00:39:32:04 - 00:40:03:02
Bri La Rance
They could come together. And with that in mind, I was like really excited about that because as progress in reality TV, I have realized that in my writing, which still exists outside of reality TV, they both inform the other. So my writing got better and in turn my producing improves, you know, leaps and bounds and improves over the years because we go through that process of starting a story, ending a story, the note back and forth, you know, developing content, character, perspective, motivation, long acting, all those sorts of storytelling concepts.

00:40:03:08 - 00:40:11:10
Bri La Rance
That means that, yeah, I can tap into all the things that I had access to before and just remold that clay into a different space.

00:40:11:16 - 00:40:31:09
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah, I really love that and I think, you know, definitely writing is one of those skills that on the surface I don't think people associate that with producing in some senses. But like from a post producer perspective, you're writing video, you're pulling together interview. So there is an element of writing totally.

00:40:31:09 - 00:40:58:17
Bri La Rance
And I think it's also that as storytellers, all of us, we tap into the human condition, the why of the human condition, why do they do this? What is their motivation? And in reality TV sometimes you could think all surely it's not that we don't think on those lines, but we absolutely do. You know, in any kind of storytelling capacity, when we're building something and we're showing a character making a choice on something, they have to have a reason for doing that or a consequence or both.

00:40:58:17 - 00:41:23:19
Bri La Rance
And that makes for compelling stories. And the audience will watch them be like, Oh, I'm interested in that. That's exciting content. Or I can relate to that. We have to tap all of these concepts. And I think, yeah, reality TV is an interesting space where you can make that happen. But that idea that you said of pulling something almost from nothing as a storyteller, as that absolutely requires a sense of imagination and an understanding of why I'm doing this for a certain character.

00:41:23:24 - 00:41:42:24
Bri La Rance
And you do that with writing. You do that with storytelling in the reality space. And yes, of course you've got the prerecorded stuff, but you're like, Great, that scene has to now work in this context, or I have to help build that scene. And that doesn't come from, you know, everything that's there. Sometimes you have to sort of work that muscle so that it makes sense to the audience.

00:41:43:11 - 00:42:05:16
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah, and I think what you said, where as a producer it's kind of a marriage of all those skills, the technical and the creative coming together, it makes sense because I feel like post producing has come quite naturally to you. I know that I actually worked with you. I think it was your first post swapping gig and you were amazing.

00:42:05:16 - 00:42:20:06
Hayley Ferguson
Like, I just remember being like, Wow, it was so great to work with you. That was on the last finale of Survivor and Here Is Versus Villains. And it was a surprise to me that was actually your first post-Super gig, because I felt like the way you worked was like you'd been doing it for years.

00:42:20:09 - 00:42:42:15
Bri La Rance
Oh, that's really flattering. That's really lovely to say. I think it all comes down to you know, compatibility with teams as well. Like, I think creatively I was really compatible with how you operated and we could, yes. End each other's ideas. I think at the end of the day, you can't go wrong when there's no ego attached to building this episode, you know, like it can't be my way or the highway.

00:42:42:19 - 00:43:07:02
Bri La Rance
There's no productivity in that. Yes, there's some certain logic things that we might need to hit in an episode, but how you hit that is go in a health leather. You've got a really weird way of like finding this to make sense of this moment. Great. Like, how interesting is that? Surprises. That's really cool. I think if you boil it down to where both all collaborating as well as the, you know, the ED team in the EP and then the broader team all together.

00:43:07:12 - 00:43:22:01
Bri La Rance
If we always bring it down to what's the best thing for the product and what's the best way we can tell this story? I don't think anyone can lose. I think it's all about what can you bring to the table? What can I bring to the table? Great. And now we've got this base layer. What can we dress the table with?

00:43:22:01 - 00:43:37:14
Bri La Rance
Or we can add this. We can add that, we can add this. And suddenly it's like this amazing, like buffet of stuff that's come together. And that's probably the most exciting part of storytelling. And in this space, in reality television, the people that come together, you mutually create something pretty great.

00:43:37:24 - 00:43:43:20
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah, definitely. As a supervising post producer, what would a typical day look like for you?

00:43:44:04 - 00:44:03:19
Bri La Rance
I suppose a typical day, maybe midway through a series. I've got a few episodes on my slate, Tony make maybe like three or four happening and. They're at various stages, some maybe closer to some bigger screenings, some will complete, and others are more in the earlier phase where they're building an episode just from the field content and then piecing that together.

00:44:04:06 - 00:44:20:07
Bri La Rance
But usually it's like reviewing material, giving feedback on material and checking in with my teams and, you know, make sure that the episodes closest to those pressing deadlines are absolutely on track and then guide the other ones that are still figuring out the the stories.

00:44:20:14 - 00:44:43:00
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah. And to anyone that might be familiar with the process, process essentially when you're putting together an episode which depending on the show can take different amount of weeks, it can be 5 to 10 weeks to pull an episode together. And throughout that process, there's a number of sort of milestones that you need to hit in terms of going to a screening.

00:44:43:00 - 00:45:05:22
Hayley Ferguson
So from my experience, like, I would go into a story meeting with my plan of what this episode is, is going to be in terms of whose perspective we're going to hear from what scenes. I've got to help tell that story and what I'm working towards in terms of the ending of the episode. Then from there I'll go and make it.

00:45:06:04 - 00:45:30:01
Hayley Ferguson
I'll work with a post supervisor to make sure that the storylines are fitting into the the entire series and that we're really telling that story in the most exciting, compelling way. Then there'll be a structural screening, which is really for the executive producer to look at your episode in its rawest form. It's not pretty. It's not finesse, like what an editor would do.

00:45:30:01 - 00:45:52:05
Hayley Ferguson
It doesn't have music on it that will look at that, give feedback. You'll go work on that again. And then from there the editor starts working and then there's various screenings where you'll get your supervisor feedback, you'll get the post feedback, you'll get the execs from the production company, and then all the way to sort of a network screening.

00:45:52:13 - 00:46:07:00
Hayley Ferguson
So there's a lot of stages you kind of need to hit along that process. And I guess from a post supervisor perspective, are you getting into the rushes? Are you looking at content? Are you actually cutting anything any more?

00:46:07:01 - 00:46:28:11
Bri La Rance
I think early on in the series when there's not too many episodes happening at once, I'll dove into those rushes as thoroughly as I can or as time permits, just so I familiarize myself with what actually use in this episode and also read the field notes which are incredibly helpful. Some of the field teams and as the series progresses, things get a bit busy us all to field notes and I'll look at key scenes and be like, Yeah, great.

00:46:28:11 - 00:46:44:06
Bri La Rance
But they're definitely exciting scenes to work towards. Or if I need to solve something that we flagged earlier with the executive producer, you know, I'll make sure those scenes exist to iron out some of the story kinks if they're there. And that does involve looking at the rushes for sure. And I'll still do that no matter where we are on the series.

00:46:44:06 - 00:47:03:14
Bri La Rance
If there's a problem in an episode, I'll just make sure it exists and we can solve it ahead of time. Great. There are some producers who are quite senior, which is great. Sometimes more senior post producers like to talk through the problem as opposed to being like, Here's what I've done, fix it. They kind of talk through the issue, gripe.

00:47:03:15 - 00:47:23:13
Bri La Rance
They'll go away, do something, send it back. I'll have a look. We'll talk about solving it again. They don't necessarily need me to be like he's, you know, this exact moment. Let's lose this, put this and do that, do this. I don't have to fix it on the timeline post. Sorry for them. They might get to a certain point where they've they've tried to need that dough over and over again.

00:47:23:13 - 00:47:35:19
Bri La Rance
They're not quite getting and I'll be like, give it to me, I'll have a crack and then I'll send it back to them and then they'll like have another crack at that and we'll kind of. Yes, end each other's work. And sometimes it's just the benefit of an additional minded pair of hands. So yes, I'll get on the tools in that sense.

00:47:36:12 - 00:47:53:18
Bri La Rance
Sometimes if we're up against it in terms of time, doesn't matter how senior or how junior the producer is. Sometimes they just need that extra set of hands. And if my slight in that point of time isn't crazy, I can certainly be like, Give me that segment. I can do this producer tweaks or whatever, and we can send it back to the editor to, to, you know, to do their thing on.

00:47:54:00 - 00:48:25:01
Bri La Rance
A lot of feedback that I give is often problem solving or how do we amplify this? Or We can make this better here, here and here. Potentially, there's sometimes junior post producers who might need a little bit more intervention or encouragement. I suppose is a better word. And that might sometimes require being on the tools because they'll have a timeline of a story, a segment of storytelling and I'm looking at it going like, I'm not entirely sure what the solution is, but I'll get on the tools and sort of like add some interview here and there to sort of show them all.

00:48:25:02 - 00:48:38:11
Bri La Rance
Great. Yes. This is what the potential of the scene could be. And then they'll go away, reversion that and bring it back. Or if there's a scene that is a bit of actuality that might need a slight rearrange, then I might be able to do that. If I'm just on the tools to show them this is what this scene could be.

00:48:38:16 - 00:48:50:09
Bri La Rance
So it's this nurturing as well. In that respect, if I go on the tools and demonstrate the idea, then they can take that demonstration and do it themselves. So I'm on the tools for various reasons. If I have to be.

00:48:50:15 - 00:49:08:10
Hayley Ferguson
In post-production like it. It is interesting because there are varying levels of experience among producers. So you could be supervising someone who is literally, you know, producing their first episode of television ever versus someone with 20 years experience.

00:49:08:22 - 00:49:34:02
Bri La Rance
Yes, definitely. And both are exciting in their own respects. The new post producer comes with new ideas, usually a sense of excitement for the content, and that makes me really excited to work with that type of person too. Sometimes they might need more time with them, you know, and there's certainly a benefit of having maybe more time in a schedule to work with a new producer in the States because I'll need more time and more back and forth with the content, more encouragement, more nurturing.

00:49:34:02 - 00:49:59:04
Bri La Rance
In that sense, you one would hope that maybe they like on a long show, like a survivor, a master, or a married at first sight. Have one episode that they learn the necessary tools or learn the necessary tone of the show, and sometimes as simple as techniques to tell a story and then take those tools that we've learned from a back and forth with, whoever their supervisor would be or their fellow post producers.

00:49:59:04 - 00:50:24:09
Bri La Rance
And they've gone through the process of building the episode notes, notes, and then final screening, and they understand what, what it sort of takes to make an episode of, say, Survivor. Then when they get to the next episode, hopefully the tools that they've learned are paying dividends in that. And then the process is that's slightly bit easier, and my intervention or my encouragement or nurturing has to be slightly less, you know, and then you can see, okay, great, we have more flow here.

00:50:24:09 - 00:50:44:07
Bri La Rance
We understand, you know, how to tell the story, how to work in character, perspective and all that sort of stuff. And you know, sometimes this senior producers who also need just as much but in a different way, a different kind of nurturing or different kind of encouragement, if there's a difficult story to tell, if it's a difficult episode, that definitely requires a lot more.

00:50:44:07 - 00:50:55:03
Bri La Rance
Back and forth and a lot more story work to get it to where it needs to be. So there's different processes for different people and there's also different processes for different people with different experience.

00:50:55:09 - 00:50:58:08
Hayley Ferguson
And what would you say makes a difficult episode?

00:50:58:19 - 00:51:16:05
Bri La Rance
Sometimes it's when characters themselves say something and then do something totally different, lighter and you like. And you need both of those scenes in the story. And you know, there's no link with that action. You're like, How do I help them motivate this choice that they've made? Or if they do something totally random, like, how do I motivate that?

00:51:16:05 - 00:51:40:00
Bri La Rance
Because it's so out of character for them and it's so out of character in the way that it's not exciting per se. It's just a bit odd for the audience to digest that action. Or in a show like Survivor per se, where we end at Tribal Council and someone goes home and the steps to that sometimes in the actuality itself and how the action unfolds on the day, sometimes those steps can be really complex.

00:51:40:00 - 00:52:02:07
Bri La Rance
And so it's clarifying those steps as simply and as clearly as possible within a very condensed time, like an hour of television, so that the audience, when they're watching it, it makes sense to them and not only makes sense to them, it's exciting. Sometimes You have a more complicated road to telling that story, but that's where the exciting stuff sometimes happens when you solve that puzzle and it ends up quite strong and great and really interesting.

00:52:02:07 - 00:52:07:04
Bri La Rance
It's very satisfying because you're like, Great. We've solved this puzzle of storytelling here together.

00:52:07:15 - 00:52:15:01
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah, definitely. It's always it's always a puzzle. It's just the element of difficulty. Yes.

00:52:15:09 - 00:52:15:22
Bri La Rance
Yes.

00:52:16:03 - 00:52:39:00
Hayley Ferguson
So you obviously came into reality TV through a very varied pathway. You took an interesting pathway to getting to where you are in reality TV. But I suppose if someone is listening to this and likes the sound of what you're doing now, how would you suggest that they go about getting into post-production?

00:52:39:18 - 00:53:05:09
Bri La Rance
Well, yeah, I think I've certainly demonstrated that there's no one way in. But I do know that coming into post producing with a storytelling background is great and it certainly will help you. I also know that there are mentorship programs that gives people training ground or training wheels before they jump into the post-production sort of space. And they are excellent because they are also very practical tools to get in.

00:53:05:21 - 00:53:27:22
Bri La Rance
And there's also other avenues like working your way up from transcriber to host, associate producer to junior post producer to post producer to supervising. Yeah. So there's multiple routes in for me. What was most advantageous was having a background in how to build a story, how to understand character, motivation, the human condition, narrative, storytelling that was all useful.

00:53:28:02 - 00:53:55:02
Bri La Rance
But there are also parts producers or supervisor EPS around me who went in a completely different route and are incredibly experienced and more experienced than myself in how to create content. So there's no any quick flyaway. And in terms of advice, I would give a producer or how the how to I think it would come down to a keenness always to collaborate and always seeing the potential in the story.

00:53:55:08 - 00:54:17:18
Bri La Rance
And if you have a grasp of a few of those things, then you absolutely cope with post-production process and building an episode. Yes, there's technical elements like I would always say, be familiar with editing programs like Avid in a broad sense, doesn't mean you have to be able to edit the next open Oppenheimer, but you certainly have to have a very simple grasp of it.

00:54:17:18 - 00:54:36:11
Bri La Rance
I absolutely had a very simple grasp of Avid. That's all I needed just to survive and then build from there. But it all comes down to just being keen to make a good story a good television and then learn on the job as you go, but learn from people around you who are making good content and you will really improve.

00:54:36:23 - 00:54:47:00
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah, I definitely think being able to learn from people around you and soak up whatever sort of advice that they can give you on the job is really important.

00:54:47:10 - 00:54:49:05
Bri La Rance
Yes, most definitely.

00:54:49:10 - 00:54:51:09
Hayley Ferguson
Do you want to get to the quickfire questions?

00:54:51:15 - 00:54:52:14
Bri La Rance
Let's do it. Hit me with.

00:54:52:14 - 00:54:55:20
Hayley Ferguson
It. What is your favorite reality TV show to watch?

00:54:55:21 - 00:54:57:22
Bri La Rance
Ultimatum specifically queer ultimatum.

00:54:57:22 - 00:55:00:00
Hayley Ferguson
What was the last TV show you watched?

00:55:00:03 - 00:55:01:02
Bri La Rance
Ooh, Muster Dogs.

00:55:01:05 - 00:55:04:22
Hayley Ferguson
Who is the most famous person you've met through working in TV?

00:55:06:09 - 00:55:10:02
Bri La Rance
I cannot think of anyone. Interesting. Next question.

00:55:11:22 - 00:55:15:17
Hayley Ferguson
What is your dream show to work on that you haven't already worked on?

00:55:15:19 - 00:55:18:18
Bri La Rance
Well, in the reality world alone, I'd love to work on a live.

00:55:18:21 - 00:55:20:21
Hayley Ferguson
Best location you've been to for work.

00:55:20:22 - 00:55:23:21
Bri La Rance
Oh, that would probably be Canada, up in the mountains. Mount Pleasant.

00:55:24:01 - 00:55:26:16
Hayley Ferguson
What Castle TV show needs to make a comeback?

00:55:26:18 - 00:55:28:08
Bri La Rance
Definitely tried as so. It was excellent to me.

00:55:28:11 - 00:55:30:06
Hayley Ferguson
Have you ever been on TV?

00:55:30:06 - 00:55:32:10
Bri La Rance
Yes. Super Bowl commercial in America.

00:55:32:14 - 00:55:36:01
Hayley Ferguson
If you could be on any reality TV show, what would you be on?

00:55:36:05 - 00:55:37:05
Bri La Rance
Honestly, Survivor.

00:55:37:05 - 00:55:40:05
Hayley Ferguson
If you could have dinner with any celebrity, dead or alive, who would it.

00:55:40:05 - 00:55:50:10
Bri La Rance
Be? Cate Blanchett. Probably Jennifer Lawrence. She'd be a scream. Definitely Michelle Obama. Probably Ellen DeGeneres. Because why not? Yeah, powerhouse women would be awesome. Just a bunch of them.

00:55:50:15 - 00:55:53:03
Hayley Ferguson
You only needed one, but I know my Celtic will.

00:55:53:16 - 00:56:02:13
Bri La Rance
Take all of them. I can't just choose one. It's like saying What's your favorite book? Those quickfire questions. Then they rattled me, the hardcore I'm kidding.

00:56:02:13 - 00:56:16:04
Hayley Ferguson
You got that? So wake up. It'll be really snappy in the end. You know how these things work. Well, thank you so much. It's been so nice to have a proper chat. I had no idea you're an actor. Experience like audio directing.

00:56:16:13 - 00:56:33:12
Bri La Rance
Yeah, it's a colorful past, that's for sure. And, you know, some would say maybe I am the master of them, but I'm also really grateful for such a vast area of experience that I you know, I do have all of that's made me really enjoy where I am in television today. Yeah.

00:56:33:12 - 00:56:37:05
Hayley Ferguson
And I mean, you're not a master of none by any means.

00:56:37:23 - 00:56:40:20
Bri La Rance
Foster Of some.

00:56:40:20 - 00:56:46:00
Hayley Ferguson
But excitingly, you are co-producing some episodes of Beyond Reality this season.

00:56:46:09 - 00:57:05:10
Bri La Rance
Yes. Yes, I am. And you know, what happened was I was familiar with some of your early stuff, and I absolutely love this podcast. And I thought, why not throw my hat in the ring and offer up some, you know, post producing hands on this wonderful show? And you were so keen. I was so grateful that you were coming on.

00:57:05:13 - 00:57:08:16
Hayley Ferguson
Yeah. And then you got roped into doing an episode with me.

00:57:08:16 - 00:57:12:07
Bri La Rance
So I'm happy about that, too. That's been really fun.

00:57:12:22 - 00:57:17:13
Hayley Ferguson
It has been fun. Thank you so much. And I'll I'll see you tomorrow. We'll chat to you tomorrow.

00:57:17:21 - 00:57:19:13
Bri La Rance
So I'll see you then. Great. Thanks.

00:57:19:13 - 00:57:37:07
Speaker 3
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