Jackson Exit Interview | Australian Survivor: Redemption - Runner Up | Ep24 | Beyond Tribal

In this episode of Beyond Reality: Beyond Tribal, long-time Australian Survivor producer Hayley Ferguson sits down with the runner up from Australian Survivor: Redemption - Jackson. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Hi, I'm Hayley Ferguson and this is Beyond Reality. I've spent the past decade working as a producer on Australian Survivor. And now I'm taking you Beyond Tribal. I'll be chatting with the players from Australian Survivor Redemption as they leave the game unpacking their strategy, their downfall, and their story beyond the vote. This is beyond reality. Hi, Jackson.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Hi Haley, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:38

I'm good. Congratulations on a great game. An incredible final tribal council. How are you feeling coming down after that live finale and the winner announcement?

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Yeah, coming down for sure. I'm coming down with a flu. There was a flu going around that last fight finale. It was a big night. I'm still recovering from it. But yeah, look, lots of positive support online and lots of positive support around me. So I'm I'm happy. Like I I firmly believe that I did absolutely everything I could out there. And um I put my best foot forward, and there's there's nothing more I could do. So I'm very happy.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

It was such an emotional week of survivor. How does the emotion compare from playing the game to watching it back now?

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Oh, when you're out there, there was a really good analogy that got told to me. It's like when you're in like real life, you you have you know, you got your social connections, you got some Netflix to watch, you got a nice warm bed, you got food. When you're out there, you don't have any of these buffers anymore. So everything that comes at you is so raw and real, and like every little thing just makes you so emotional and you're so heightened. Um, so out there, it's just you get every emotion in its most raw form. And it's actually kind of mad to receive that. Not many people get that. And now, you know, back in normal society, I'm kicking back on my couch with my cat and my girlfriend watching it back. Um, I will say that like there are some bits uh that I haven't been really able to watch back and I don't intend on watching back. Um maybe it's best left for how it was out there and how I felt out there. Yeah, it's particularly that last that last challenge. I haven't really watched it back.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Wow. Why is it so hard for you to watch that final challenge?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Um it's just the like the hardest thing it's I've ever done, the the most I've ever been through ever. Um and the there's still a small part of me that's just like you you failed, you know, and it's hard to watch failures back, and it's hard to kind of comprehend. I I know for a fact I couldn't have done any more than I did. I know, but it's I still didn't win. You know what I mean? And and that stings. I love winning. I'm a competitor. Um, and I think I think that's definitely a part of not being able to watch it back. Uh not being able to watch back a failure, which I should probably just grow up and go and watch it and just sink sink into it and use it as motivation going forward. And I will, but right now it's still too raw.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Wow. I'm sorry that you feel that way. I mean, seeing you push yourself to the limit until literally your body, I guess, failed on you in that moment. I think it's something you should be incredibly proud of because it's not easy.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

No, no, it's um it wasn't. Um, and it remains not being easy. Um and yeah, I look, I I'm proud of what I did out there, of everything that I did out there, and including that moment. And I've received some really nice messages, some some like you've inspired me and stuff like that. And mostly that's all I've wanted to do with my wrestling career and with life and my social media presence. I just try to inspire people to drop out and go live their dream. And if people take that moment as like a inspiration, then absolutely, and I take it as inspiration too, because I'm very proud of it. Um, and it's it's something that I've said it to my partner this morning. I was like, I wouldn't take it back, but I don't know if I'd do it again.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Survivor or that challenge?

SPEAKER_01 4:25

That's the question, isn't it? I had someone asked me the other day, I was like, yes, no, maybe. I look, I I don't know. Right now, I just want to sit in what the experience was and enjoy it for what has happened. And um look, if channel 10 give me a call, my they've got my number, you know what I mean? Um, but right now I'm not making any any decisions, I'm just enjoying what was.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

It was such a great matchup between you and Caleb. Then there was this reveal that it was going to be a live finale and that you wouldn't find out who won until you were back in Australia. I guess walking away, did you have any inkling on who would have voted for who? Did you think that you might have been able to pull it off?

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Nah. Nah, nah. I pretty well knew that I wasn't, uh I didn't get the votes. Um I I I've never really watched Survivor Haley. I I never watched it, you know what I mean? And I went out there with the intent of making some good television and and being loud and brash and being a pro wrestler and showing, you know, maybe future employers what I've got when it comes to cutting promos and being entertaining. And here's the package you'll get if you put me on TV. Um, and suddenly I'm in the final six. And suddenly I'm in the final four. And then I'm going, oh no, I've yelled at all these people for all these weeks, and I'm gonna have to pitch to them soon. Um and look, I still look back at my game and everything that I did and say, bruh, I think I played, I think I played better. Um, but there's a big part of the game that I kind of neglected, and that is the social connections and social aspects. And my belief as someone who hasn't watched a lot of Survivor is that if you play a game of which you believe is bigger, and you play a game where there's big loud moves and exciting stuff happening, and you get to pitch that to a jury, the jury's gonna be swayed in your direction. But um unfortunately, I don't think that I think any given year, it could have gone either way. Some juries are gonna like that big brash, loud movie stuff, some juries are gonna vote more emotionally, um, some juries are gonna have Mark on it who you know may as well have worn a shirt that said, I love Caleb. Um, and didn't he love Caleb? Um so you know, there's all these different aspects going into it that I didn't really know about. And um, if I did, maybe I would have played differently. But also, if I did, I would have played differently and um maybe not got to that final two.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

I think that's really interesting that you were playing to be an entertainer rather than playing to win, and yet you still managed to play a very impressive survivor game and a game that, you know, with another jury, you could have won.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Yeah, a hundred percent. Even within these circumstances, I've had, you know, without spilling too much beans, I've had a couple of people come up to me in the last, you know, 48 hours and say, uh, I could have voted your way. You know what I mean? Like after they've watched it all back and seen how it's played out um on the television. Um, you know, but that's no shade on Caleb either. You know what I mean? Like Caleb went out there and we spent the same 45 days there and it was tough. And he played a very impressive game, too. Um, but yeah, any other jury, any other year could have gone either way. But I love that because as I said, I went out there to play an entertaining game. And if it comes right down to the wire, I've done my job, you know what I mean? And I'm a pro wrestler at heart, it's in my blood, it's in my bones, and all I wanted to do was just entertain. And I yeah, I hope I hope we did that.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

I want to talk about the votes. So Simon, Ben, and Brooke all voted for you to win. Was there any votes that surprised you that you thought maybe you would get?

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Peely? Peely, sister, what are we doing? I I don't know, because uh Mark must have got in her ear, and you know, her and Mark are quite close, so I get it. Um, but I think the Keely vote is like something that I was like, why? I don't I still don't really know, and I'm not about like going out and like, why didn't you vote for me? Because it's like, what it's done. What's done is done. You can't change anything. Um, but yeah, I was really shocked that I didn't get the Keeley vote, especially because we worked together so tightly. And um during our time working together, she did make a point to say that a lot of players weren't doing much, and that included Caleb. So I thought that was her kind of mindset going into that vote. Guess I was wrong. Um also uh something that surprised me was I had you know, Brooke and Simon, who are very well-rounded and seasoned survivor players, both vote in my favor, um, which I thought should be very telling for the number of votes I would get. You know, if these two people we can all agree are the most experienced survivor players on the jury, um, why is it that maybe Mark didn't come my way too? Uh what did Mark see in Caleb's game that the other two very experienced survivor players and Simon and Brooke didn't see? Um, you know, all these questions that mean absolutely nothing now because the votes have been cast, the the Soul Survivor has been announced, um, but very interesting questions nonetheless.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

I want to talk about some hypotheticals here without getting too much into the nitty-gritty, but I guess if Caleb went home in Sally's spot, do you think you make it to final two? And how do you think you would have gone against Laz and Sally?

SPEAKER_01 10:16

No, I wouldn't have made a final two. Um I I don't think so anyway, because you know Loz outlasted me on those pegs. She's a she's a tough. Oh my goodness. She has inspired me probably more than any other player out there. She went toe-to-toe with Simon on that um shoulder challenge, and then she's got some grit. She's uh she's a tough, tough human. Um, but no, she yeah, she she at the very least she would have outdone me, and I don't think she would have brought me to the end. She would have brought Sally over me. Um, and vice versa. If Sally had won, I don't think she would have brought me either. Um, you know, I think there is something to say that I'm very good with words, and I was able to maybe sway Caleb in the direction of taking me to that final two in that last challenge, in that last tribal, I should say. Um, and maybe I would have been able to swing one more, one more thing in that case and got myself to the final two. But no, I I think we would have looked at a a Loz and Sally final two, which is why I was very confused. Loz didn't vote Caleb, but such is life.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Yeah, I mean, you looked shocked in that moment when you went to final two. What do you think made him choose you?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Uh, he's got a different answer every day of the week. Uh, I think in the voting booth he said um, you know, Loz is a single mum and he doesn't want to pitch against that. Um, to me, he since he has said that he was inspired by my effort in the in the last challenge. Um but I think there's also something to say that if you go look at the episode, there's no confessionals in which Caleb says, I'm thinking about this. Caleb says all the way through, I'm taking laws, I'm taking laws, I'm taking laws. The only thing that changes throughout that is my pitch to him in that last tribal. I had nothing. My back was against the wall. He could have voted any way he pleased. All I had was my nice little words that I could say. And I'd like to think that I said the exact right words to get myself into that final two.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Do you think Caleb going to fire making tipped the win in his scales? Or do you think he would have won even without that fire making move?

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Uh, it's interesting. Uh I think he probably had it with or without it. Um, you know, uh it's it's as you said, each jury to their own. You know, some people might take that on board, some people might be like, ah, whatever. Um, interesting though, there was a time in my head where I was gonna give my necklace to Sally, knowing that it'd probably go to fire and then just send myself and Caleb to fire and see who would have won it. Uh there was a time where I was thinking about doing that. Uh, thank God I didn't because he started the fire quicker than anyone's ever done it. I would have got smoked. Uh, but you know, a little fun one for you.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

It would have been a great move to be able to beat Caleb in fire, but I don't think anyone could have beaten Caleb in fire.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

In history, no. Like it was the quickest someone's ever done it. It was nuts. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Let's go back to the rivalry with Caleb. Can you talk to me about where it started and how that changed throughout the game?

SPEAKER_01 13:21

So ripping the curtain down now, it's all it's all done. You know what I mean? I can finally tell everyone this big rivalry. I saw Caleb's ability to talk and back himself and be entertaining. And as a pro wrestler, I know that the best way to get stories across, to have fun, and to get screen time is start a rivalry with someone, you know what I mean? That's what people get behind. And I remember it was the big tribal where everyone was there, and I was like, There's 16 people here. How do I get mine in right now? And I was just looking around, I was like, ah, cool. I'll just go after Caleb. Um, and I wouldn't have gone after someone that I knew couldn't back it, you know. I'm not gonna punch down, it needs to be back, good back and forth to be entertaining, otherwise, it's gonna look I'm bullying the poor kid. Um, it was simply that. It was simply like let's do something cool here and start a rivalry. In so when before you go in, there's like create a bucket list of things you want to do, find an idol, do this, do that. One in mine was like start up start a rivalry with someone, you know what I mean? Um and off camera, speak pulling the curtain right now. Me, me and Caleb were chill, you know. We butted heads like everyone does out there, but we were pretty chill. Um, and that's simply where the rivalry came from, and thank God we did it because look where it ended up.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

It was one of the most fun dynamics in this game, and it was so great to see all the moments throughout the season and that rivalry continue. It was just, I mean, it was a perfect ending to have you both at that final tribal council. You know, it's a rivalry for survivor history.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Yes, bosh, how good is that?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Where does that rivalry sit now outside the game, now that everything's all done?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Oh, we're like nothing but love for Caleb. Um, and I know he feels the same for me. Um, in fact, I you know I see some passion in Caleb that I see in in me with wrestling, and I really want to, you know, help him kind of evolve that into something where he he can live his dream. Because I know his dream is what is he, a truck driver now? He doesn't want to be a truck. Oh, he's not gonna do that anymore, don't worry. But I know his dreams is is you know wildlife and uh education on wildlife because he do it with his out there, so I I'm really kind of talking to him now about pushing his way forward into that kind of sector. And you know, there's nothing but love between me and Caleb, really. It's um there's no hard feelings. There never was, by the way. Um, and yeah, uh he's a he's a great kid. He's older than me, but he's a great kid.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Well, going back to another, I mean, it kind of became a rivalry. Uh, your interesting relationship with Dirty Harry and this amazing moment, I think you called it Flint Eastwood at Tribal Council. Tell me about that. What made you decide to turn on Dirty Harry in that tribal council and and flip the vote onto him?

SPEAKER_01 16:31

It felt like me or him, and I wasn't ready to go yet. And then when I came up with the idea of doing what I was gonna do, I was like, that's just it's too good not to, you know what I mean? Like, and um, oh man, there's no one I wanted to play with more than him. Um, because of our backgrounds in in wrestling and our mutual relationships that we had. Um, but if you go back and look at that episode, the amount of unlucky things that needed to happen to get to that point, it was like R should play in an advantage to send Loz to the other tribe, and then a surprise immunity where Lindell won. And by the way, it came out to Harry and Lindell. Um, there were so many things that didn't go our tribe's way that led to that. Um, so Harry got extremely unlucky in that scenario, and um Splint Eastwood in itself was just like when it all came together, it was too good not to do.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

That was like your welcome to the game moment, and it felt like that's where you really kicked your game into gear.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

It truly was. After uh Eliza went home, that because I didn't know much about Survivor, and then Eliza went home and I was like, oh, okay, so everyone's just gonna lie. I get it now. And then I was kind of on the back foot for the pooler and Harry stuff, but still kind of there. But after Harry, I was like, I was playing with house money. I was like, oh, okay, I get it now. I can do this. This is this is just like wrestling. Let's have fun, let's go off. And the worst thing that can happen is I get sent home and I get to see my pretty girlfriend and my cat and have a nice warm shower and a feed. That's the worst thing that can happen. So let's just have fun.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

And I mean, speaking of wrestling, you and Harry obviously have the mutual connection in Grayson Waller, who when he played Survivor back in season four, he was Matt. Can you talk to me about your relationship with Grayson Waller?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Oh, he's a very close friend of mine. I've been over to America a couple of times and I stayed at his house. I was actually with him in America when I applied for this season of Survivor. I was on his couch and I was like, should I do this? And he goes, Yeah, 100%. And so um, I even got like when I did my interviews and stuff, I was like, I'm here with Matt. And I'd like, look, Matt, and he'd go, hey. Um, but yes, uh, he's he is kind of big brother. He's my my older brother that has just looked after me, given me so much advice and and um really helped me out and found my way in wrestling and now in Survivor. Um and funnily enough, didn't give me a lot of advice going on to Survivor. He just said, have fun and be yourself. He could have told me so much more. But um, that's the kind of big brother he is. He's you know, go learn it for yourself, brother, go go figure it out, and we can chat after. Um, and I really respect that.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

About and what did you know about his relationship with Harry?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

No, not heaps, um, not heaps. I knew that they played together, they worked together, and something went awry in which Matt got sent home. Um, I I hadn't watched, as I said, much. I've watched it since, by the way, because now I'm a bit of a survivor fiend. Um, but yeah, I didn't I I knew that they were still tight and still friends, um, but not that not that much.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Well, I was a producer on uh Matt's season of Survive Us, so uh he was very entertaining in the challenges. He wasn't a real big fan of the rain though and the cold.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Neither, neither, bruh. Was he not? Was he sucking about the rain or the cold?

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Oh, he didn't like it. I mean, fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

I uh I'll tell him that. Um, look, neither actually, it's actually to the point now. Look, you bring some parts home with you, and one of the parts I've bring bring home is uh I can't go out in the rain. Don't like it. I don't mean wet no more. There was a there was a stint out there where we had like four days, five days of straight rain, and we're just wet and miserable. Um and it was really, really tough. And now, like when it gets rainy outside, I there's no way I'm going outside.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

The trauma lives on.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

The trauma lives on, yes, pegs and rain.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

What did Grayson Waller think of your game? Has he been watching?

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Uh I actually saw him recently. Um uh and he, you know, he's a hard man to impress. He doesn't give out the adoration all that much, and that's awesome, you know, because when you get it, it means a lot. And you know, we were just having a normal chat, and he just he just kind of looked at me and was like, you know, I haven't said anything yet, but I'm really proud of you for what you did out there. Um he yeah, and that uh means a lot, really, and and I know that he gets it because he was out there and he knows how tough it is. Um and yeah, I feel like he's like big brother, as I said, but I know I know since the survivor stuff's happened, we can see eye to eye on a few things a bit more. Um, I'm not so much a little brother anymore. You know, I've earned my stripes, as it were. Um, and that's really, really cool. And to to kind of get that from him, it means a lot to me.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

I think that's really special that you can have that relationship in the wrestling world and then also share that survivor connection. And I guess in a season of redemption, you could get to a place which Matt couldn't when he was playing, or Grayson couldn't. I find it hard to say Matt.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Yeah, Matt Grayson. I I don't even call him either of those.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

You do have this strange, interesting connection with Harry because you both went out in the Spot in that final challenge. You both fought really hard. And yeah, I mean, Harry went home at that tribal council and you managed to get to the final tribal. So I feel like there's some synergy there.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

True. And actually, something that didn't make the edit was just before Harry, uh, just before we went to vote, Harry leaned over to me and said, Um, today this time wasn't my story, it's your story, it's your turn to get to the final three. And in high oh, I just got a little bit of tingles. Um, and in hindsight, that'd have been great to show because that's how maybe we will just spoil too much. Um, but yeah, Harry said it's your turn now. It wasn't, it wasn't my it wasn't Matt's turn last time, it wasn't my turn this time, now it's your turn. And I did it, so that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

I love that. That's really great. You can sort of carry the torch for the wrestling boys.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

I guess you admitted you didn't know much about the game of survivor when you went out there. What was the biggest thing you learned from playing with the returnees?

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Ooh, so much. That's why I aligned myself with them, by the way, because I needed to learn how to play. I think a big thing that I learned was make sure you have something to say at the end. Because in my head, it's like, if you make it to the end, that you did it. Well done. No, no, no, no. You need to have some things to say at the end. More so on the life or like experience aspect of it, where it was like Simon would say, like, trust me, brother, you do not want to go home thinking what if. Or, you know, if you come out here and you go through all of this hell, if you go through all of this and you get two confessionals, you're gonna be kicking yourself. If you're gonna sit all your family down and watch it, and they're gonna be like, you weren't even in that episode. That stings in a whole new way because you were out there struggling and you didn't really get the the receipt for it. And they just told me story after story of people who've like kind of got lost or or or didn't quite leave the jungle on the way back, where they've come back and they'll talk to you like, oh, if we did this and this, I would have stayed in, and then we could have got here. People don't really leave the jungle, so all of those sort of things, like actual real life stuff, is kind of what I've really taken on board. That's why I don't sit here and say, or that's why I don't sit here and um ask like, oh, why didn't you vote for me in the in the final? It doesn't matter, it's done, it's over. You know, I don't have any regrets about my game. There's nothing I can change now. I'm not gonna be left on that jungle. I left that jungle months ago and I'm not going back. So um just all that sort of stuff. The game way-wise, I'm sure there was things, but I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Yeah, I mean, no, that's a great attitude to have. I think to walk away from the game and feel like you've done everything that you could, happy with what you delivered and how you played. I think that's a really great thing to walk away with. How has that adjustment been back to real life? Because it is such a whirlwind, such a roller coaster. And then to, I guess, get to Final Tribal Council, not know the outcome, and then land back in real life. What has that been like for you?

SPEAKER_01 25:26

I've got a fun story. So the day after I get out, I go for breakfast with my mum and I sit down and I like look under the napkin for an idol. And I like put it down, I was like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no. So that that was hectic. And then when I started reading the menu, I started crying that like the I could just get any of this I wanted. Um, and then 24 hours later, I was in my own bed. You know, some people get jury villa to like kind of adjust that in between. I didn't get that. 48 hours later, I was back home in my bed, and it was like, whoa, what the hell? Um, and then four days later, I was back in a wrestling ring. So I didn't like there was no time to chill for me. I was straight back into wrestling, straight into the grind. And I actually think that part helped me because I wasn't stewing on like, oh my god, who voted for me, who didn't. Uh-uh, I was just like back into performing in front of thousands of people and doing my thing. Um, back to training, back to getting in shape because my body was all out of whack when I got back. Um and I stayed very, very busy. Um, I scored myself a WWE tryout, so I flew over to America for that. Um yeah, I I actually people were in our group chat, like, oh my god, can this hurry up? And I was like, We're already in like January. I'm chilling. Like, uh, I wasn't like waiting by the phone almost, you know. Um, but the adjustment period coming back, there were things like my sleep was no good. Um, I was tossing a turning every night and rain, obviously. Um but all in all, I think I adjusted pretty well considering. Um, but that's just because when I get back, when I got back, I had so much to do and so much to get after. And yeah, I I live a very blessed and full life, as Cameron would say.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

I mean, that's an incredible story about looking for idols and um crying over the menu. I would love to get some quick fire questions.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Who is your favorite player in the game?

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Ben.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Who had the most annoying habit and what was it?

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Cameron. He would just be at level 10 as soon as you woke up in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

What was your proudest moment of your game?

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Two back-to-back immunities when I needed it.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Most embarrassing moment of your game.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Not splitting on Mark. What were we thinking?

SPEAKER_00 27:45

What song sums up your time on Survivor?

SPEAKER_01 27:49

We didn't start the fire.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Would you ever play Survivor again? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

No, yeah, no, too soon. Too soon. I don't know. Call me in a month. We'll see.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

If you could be on any other reality show, what would you be on?

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Ah, Big Brother. Go on. I watched it a lot last season with Colin and all that. So that was fun. I'll do Big Brother.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Get a bed on that one.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

You get a bed, you get some food, and you don't have to like you don't have to like blindside your best mate.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

What celebrity would you want to see play Australian Survivor?

SPEAKER_01 28:30

John Cena.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

And finally, describe your Survivor legacy in three words.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Blindside and Bosch.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Thank you so much, Jackson. You have made this series so entertaining. You've been such an incredible new player who kept things exciting in the game. So I hope you can one day watch the final challenge back because it's very good TV.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

I'm sure it is. That's what they said to me, too. They said it's great. I was like, I'm sure it is.