Supervising Post Producer - Julieta Locane | Alone Australia, The Voice

In this episode, I’m joined by supervising post-producer Julieta Locane. Jules has built her reputation on some of Australia’s biggest formats — including I’m A Celebrity… Get Me Out of Here!, The Voice and Alone Australia. We discuss her pivot from digital producing, how she reframed her perspective on her versatile skill-set and what it takes to craft compelling narratives from thousands of hours of raw footage.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Hi, I'm Alice Bergerson, and this is beyond reality. The podcast for I got the people behind the TV shows. In this episode, I'm joined by supervising voice producer, Julietta Far. Bill has built a reputation of Australia's face for the celebrity reality, the voice of Lord Australia. We discussed the people producing that refined aspects of the house skill set. And what it takes to craft compelling narrative for thousands of hours of full biggest weapon when I'm producing is like going through that.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Like when you watch something and when it's something that makes you feel something. Because if you had that reaction, the viewer who's also watching it for the first time probably will as well. And that's usually the best content.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Hi Jules. Hey Haley. Thank you so much for joining me. We obviously worked together on my kitchen rules last year, and I've been wanting to get you on the pod ever since. So I'm so glad we could make it happen for today.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Me too. I've been a fan of the podcast for so long, so it's actually a bit of an honour.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Oh, stop it. You're embarrassing me now. It's one of my favorite things to listen to. I still don't know how to respond when someone tells me that they've listened to my podcast. I'm like, cool. I'm five years in. I kind of need a better response by now.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Yeah, mate.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Get used to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Yeah. Five seasons and counting. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

I usually start by asking, what is your job title and what is it that you do?

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Look, I change a bit in terms of what I do. I've just come off, I'm a celebrity where I was like the post series producer. Now I'm a post-producer on The Voice. So I kind of go between series producing and post-producing. So if I had to sum it up, let's go in the middle. I'm a supervising post-producer. How would you describe what you do in that role? So as a supervising post-producer, um, you oversee the team of post-producers and then also the storylines within a show. So you can do things from making sure that everyone's doing, you know, that the work is distributed evenly to getting into the rushes, reviewing cuts, making changes, and I guess also just assisting the executive producer and getting the show out the door.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

And is the role different from job to job, or is it pretty much the same?

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Yeah, it definitely depends on the show. So if you're doing something like I'm a celebrity, that's fast turnaround. So you're getting an episode out the door every single day. And so the way you work is very different to something like My Kitchen Rules, where you know, an edit team and a producer will have a couple of weeks to produce an episode. On I'm a celeb, you literally have to go on like gut instinct, chase the best story, cut it up, be quick, and get it out the door. So that I think is the main difference. But really, what unifies every show is just the essence of storytelling and where they're to, you know, tell the best story in the best uh possible way. And that never changes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Is there something that surprises people about the role that they might not understand if they don't work in TV?

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Look, one of the things that surprises well, definitely surprised me when I started out was actually not really knowing what a post producer did and how involved they are in storytelling because people, you know, assume that editors are the ones that are crafting everything that and they certainly do, but then there's the postproducers that help narrow everything down. And so I think sometimes definitely from the outside, there's a bit of a misunderstanding of what a post producer in TV in Australia actually does.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah, it's like on the internet when people are yelling at the editors, they blame the editors.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Guarantee there's probably been a postproducer that has watched 20 hours of that footage before the editor.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

So I also think that a lot of people are always surprised at actually how much work goes into one episode of television. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

I yeah, look, I might be biased, but I actually think postproducers are some of the smartest people ever. Because yeah, it's like I would love to see anyone just get given thousands of hours of footage and being told to just craft a 45-minute episode of something in a compelling way. Like it relies a lot on the story chops of the producers, and it's yeah, I think it's we're very high-functioning, Haley.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

I'd love you to take me back to where it all began. And the question I always ask is, Did you always want to work in TV? Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

And I look, I don't know if it was specifically TV, but I definitely loved image, like video narrative, storytelling. I loved watching films and and documentaries as a little girl, which is weird. But I remember my dream was always editing from like that's the one thing I've always wanted to do. I've never wanted to do anything else, to be honest. And I remember back when I was like seven years old, I was like watching TV, and I just it kept bothering me that I would sense something different with the image when I watched, say, like the news, and then when I watched a film, I was like, why does it feel different? And then over the years I realized, oh, it's a different frame rate, you know, you've got you've got the faster frame rate on news, and it makes it seem you know, like you're moving properly, and then it's more cinematic for cinema, like all these little things. And yeah, I would always, you know, if someone was turning 20, 30, 40, or 50 years old, they would get a video from me. Like I would collate all the images, put like an emotional song, and just give them that as a present. And I loved it, and that kind of went on as well. When I went into uni, I knew the course that I wanted to do. There was never anything else, and so yeah, I I studied that at uni and I still love it.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Wow, that's amazing that you had that kind of I guess interest from when you were as young as seven and you were picking up on the different feelings of different types of shows.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Yeah, I think I was lucky in that sense because I remember, you know, even in high school, a lot of my friends struggled, and a lot of people struggle with the deciding, you know, what do you want to do? And that's the one thing I always knew I wanted to do, and I s and I still love it, so that's a win.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Yeah, definitely. So you went to university, what did you study?

SPEAKER_02 6:59

I did a double degree of media arts and communication and international studies. So that was five years and did great, topped, topped my cohort, but I never ever got asked for my degree in TV. Never. So, you know, was it instrumental in me getting a job in TV? Probably not. But do I regret it? No, because I actually think I got different things out of it, like thinking critically and knowing how to write and the discipline as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah, it's interesting what I love about this podcast. I chat to so many different people that have had different pathways into television. How has that degree or what you learned during those courses helped you in your work?

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Well, first of all, I'll start by telling you what it didn't teach me. It didn't teach me any practical skills. So, you know, editing and sound design and producing and blah blah blah. I got very, very little of that at uni. It was all like theoretical work. So, you know, you had to read on the psychology of communication and media and ethics and blah blah blah. And so I definitely got a good understanding of the media landscape. And I think what it taught me as well. So obviously, you have to write a lot of essays, and you're gonna be like, Why how are essays relevant to post-producing? But in an essay, you have to have a strong thesis and you have to back it up and you have to make it compelling and you have to get your point across. And in many ways, crafting an episode of something or a scene is that. It's what are you trying to get, what are you trying to print, what are you trying to get across, and how are you gonna tell it? You know, what's your supporting evidence? So yeah, I think it just, you know, I'm never gonna use the essays that I wrote at uni in TV, but um it it taught me how to structure a narrative, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Yeah, I've never heard someone describe it, like compare it to an essay in terms of structuring a pod, but I kind of love that. Yeah, I mean it's um it's not very sexy, is it?

SPEAKER_02 9:11

To be like, yeah, I actually make visual essays for and no, it's really not that deep. But to me, I think even like when you're writing, how do you get your point across concisely, you know, and what is the most important part? And that's definitely something that I try and weave into my when I'm making a scene or or an episode of some sort. What's the best, most direct, impactful way of saying something?

SPEAKER_01 9:37

So you went to university. Tell me how did you get your first job in TV?

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Um, through hassling people and emailing and then emailing again. I think I saw some ad for like it was a small production company, family run, and they were looking for I think it was a junior editor. I don't I honestly can't remember what the exact title was. But I had no experience, and I just wrote an email, sent my CV, they never replied, so I emailed again, and then it became quite annoying until they were like, Okay, fine, just come in for a trial. And I was still at uni, so it was sort of you know part-time, and yeah, that's how I got my first sort of job editing small business and personal finance shows for like channel seven, and even in a way, it was it was good because it was it was small, and so you could just like and it was slower and you didn't have like the insane schedules and you know restrictions that you have today. Like, I honestly can't even remember if we had like proper screenings or whatever. I was just like coming in, doing a bit of editing, you know, feeling my way around, and then yeah, over time I I did a bit more and more and more. So it was a good training ground. And then I wanted to see what else was out there, you know. I I'd heard of like the bigger companies like ITV, Warner Brothers, and the More Shine, and that to me was exciting, but I didn't really know how to get in, even though I loved editing. I thought it was too early in my career to keep going and doing that, and I wanted to do a bit more producing. And so I saw an ad to be a digital producer for The Voice Australia for ITV, and yeah, I similar thing. I emailed, didn't really get a reply, emailed again, went for a job interview. Like after that, it was a bit of radio silence. So I emailed again, and then I yeah, I got the job, and then that was in 2018, and I'm still at ITV now.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

So your persistence obviously paid off. I guess doing that digital role at ITV, what was involved in that? How would you explain what you were doing day to day?

SPEAKER_02 11:52

So digital, it's an interesting beast because the digital team within shows, they're often overlooked, you know. It's kind of that you never really get a big budget to do anything. So the team is much smaller. So you have to do everything. You have to edit, you have to produce, you have to, you know, coordinate little schedules and whatever. And essentially what the role of a digital team is, is to make all the digital assets that accompany a show. So it can be like extra content that will sit in the network website or rolling out on YouTube or you know, social media assets as well to promote the show, to grow the audience. And so you're kind of always trying to find creative ways of, say, on the voice, using the artists. How can we do something cool, like maybe a vlog, or maybe we do a behind the scenes of like the art department making the costumes? And so there's a lot of license to be creative and really get your hands dirty, you know, filming and producing and doing whatever. But the downside of it is that no one really takes it seriously. It's kind of seen as like Timu producing in a way, which is ironic because actually, you know, in the digital landscape, you get a lot of eyeballs, sometimes more views than you would on the actual show and you know, broadcast TV.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

That's so interesting because it's so true. I mean, in digital, you are doing so many different aspects, you have to be that jack of all trades. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Exactly. It's actually a good place to be in because you're sitting back, you're in the field, but you're also kind of liaising with post as well. So you get a good overview of how TV is made without being in the throes of it. And yeah, like I remember for me, I that was something that annoyed me how you know it was seen as oh, you only get five minutes because you're digital. Oh, we're running out of time. Well, I guess we can scrap that from digital. Let's, you know, let's just let's go home. And so a lot of it is like fighting for it, and that's like that's a good thing to learn, you know. And like little old me would be then interviewing Boy George and Kelly Rowland for a digital only video. And yeah, it was working in digital that I guess made me realize what I wanted to do going forward, which was to go back into post as a post-producer. And you know, it was great to make all the videos and see what's like trending and what's working on social media and content and blah blah blah blah blah. But I was like, okay, now I want to make the show. I want to be in the rushes, I want to craft the narratives, tell the backstories of the contestants and and and do that. And so again, how I got out of that was emailing the post executive at the time. And just it a lot of this industry just relies on someone giving you a shot when you don't necessarily have the credits to prove it. And I was lucky enough that yeah, Jala Webster said, okay, sure, let's give it a go. And I've been imposed ever since. So it worked out.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yeah. I mean, what was it about the post aspect that made you want to go down that path?

SPEAKER_02 15:13

I think it's the way that I felt when I watched a good edit that made me be like, I want to recreate that. Um, you know, and and just to use the voice as the example, a good backstory of an artist that makes you feel something. Like that having the power to craft that as a producer with along with an editor, that's what made me want to do it. Because even though I like being in the field, I I've always felt more comfortable just sitting in a computer putting stuff together, trying things. And I have to admit as well, I was getting a little bit tired of being kind of undermined, you know. And and it's it's ironic because the pendulum has almost swung the other way now with digital, where you know, that's where the audience is. But yeah, I was a bit like I want to be taken seriously. Like, I don't want to just be seen as like the digital girl that's doing social media videos or little things for YouTube, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Yeah, it is funny because I mean now it's like networks are trying to find out how they can capitalize on the YouTube audiences.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yes, and actually, I mean, you one of the things you asked for on this podcast is to send you you know my CV beforehand. And I actually think on there, I don't even think I have digital producing because back then I was it was I saw it as like a negative, you know, that people would just look at her and go, Oh, she started out in digital. Whereas now I'm like, I should be putting that on there because there's you know, there's more opportunities if things are pivoting into the digital space. I want to be like, yeah, actually, I did that for like two bloody years. So yeah, it's interesting how it's it's shifting.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

So you just said you did digital producing for two years. Was that with the same show?

SPEAKER_02 17:00

So I was on a head office contract at ITV, which is in TV quite a rare thing. Um, so it basically means that you're just at the company for a year and you get put on whatever show they need you on. So I did it on um The Voice, I did it on Love Island, I think I did a little bit with a development team. Yeah, a whole bunch of different shows that you can't, and when you're not working on a show, maybe you're you know thinking ahead of for the next season of a show. What can we do different? What are the numbers telling us and blah blah blah, which is also exciting because that's not something you get working in TV on any show. You kind of just get booked on a gig and you start and you have to do the thing. There's no forward planning for next season, you know? Yeah, at least not as a producer. You probably would do that if you're the EP for everyone else, no.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

So you got this role on the voice in post. Was that as a post AP?

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Yeah. So I was just assisting the producers. So if they needed certain grabs or if they needed cut downs, and I always made a point of like just trying to go above and beyond, you know, and being like trying to observe what they were doing, but also being like, if I were them, what would be helpful? And I actually think that's like that's like one of my biggest tips if anyone ever wants to get into TVs, just to like observe and take the time. And I think in in post it's something that you can do because you know, a lot of people probably don't know this, but we work with a program called uh Media Composer or Avid, which basically means that multiple people can be working on that project at the same time. So you can see their folders with all their edits, and I would sometimes do that. I would go into the producers' folders and see okay, how are they getting from being given two hours of footage to making this scene for five minutes? What's the what does the process look like for them? And that was really helpful for me as well, just to be like looking and trying to replicate in my spare time as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah, it's so fascinating. I've always found that really interesting seeing how other people work and process things and put something together from scratch.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yeah, and it's kind of actually a bit of a creepy and rare thing that you don't get in other industries. Like, where else can you get access to someone's like personal folders for like their documents and being like, oh, this is how they did that thing, you know? But yeah, I am not so much now, but definitely early on, I was fascinated. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna, this is a good system, I'm gonna take note.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

You spent the next few years kind of working your way up in post into positions of a post producer, supervising post producer, series producer, also, you know, working across the field as well as a shooter producer and various other roles. Was that a conscious decision on your behalf to go between field and post?

SPEAKER_02 19:54

No, I'll be honest. When I started working in post, my my goal was always to get into obdoc. That's a thing that I've always loved and I still love, and I think I would be the happiest person in the world if I could just make freaking cool documentaries for the rest of my life. But when I was in post, I got approached by Ben Olm, who was the head of factual at ITV at the time. And he sort of knew that you know I had done digital and like could work a camera, and they needed someone to have both the post knowledge and the operating kind of field knowledge for a show called Alone Australia. But there's not many people that work across field and post in that degree. I was not like an experienced shooter or anything, but like I knew that I could do it and I had done it, and I was always interested. But definitely I was not looking for that. I wasn't going, oh, I want to be a shooter producer. But when this opportunity came about, I was like, I'm not giving this up, you know, like this, I'm I'm going all in. So it wasn't a conscious decision, but it's one that I definitely am glad it happened because now I've I've realized there's one of the most rewarding things is being involved in a show in Field all the way through back to post. You feel very connected to it.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah, I mean, let's talk more about Alone Australia because that's obviously been a really significant show and series of roles in your career. You've done all four series of the show. Can you tell me about your roles on that show and what is involved in a show like Alone Australia? It's a really unique show to work on.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Basically, it's a show where 10 survival experts go out into the wild with their own camera equipment and 10 items, and the aim is to be the last one standing. So they have to survive, they have to procure their own food, water, make their own shelter, keep themselves alive alone. So they're all alone, and then the only way that they can leave is if if you you they can leave at any time, um, but you just don't know how you're going in the season in the series because you don't know you don't have access to anyone else. So you could be you know the second person. Remaining, and you're like, Oh, I miss my family, and then you just you call the team and we go get you, and then you realize that you were probably really close to to winning. So, in summary, it's 10 survival experts going out into the wild, they document their own experience, and the aim is to survive. And the last one standing wins a pull of cash.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

It's a really interesting show. So tell me about your roles.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Yeah, so on Alone, I start during the the production phase. So I would film and produce a couple of the backstories of the survival experts. So you know, you go out and meet them, you interview them, you find out who they are, and then once we do that, you basically have a week to teach them how to shoot and how to become storytellers. Shoot a camera. Shoot a camera, yeah. Not shoot I yeah, me, yeah. I'm teaching them how to actually use a bow and arrow. Um I mean it's a survivalist show, so I just thought I needed to clarify that. Definitely, no, definitely. Yeah, so we we have to teach them how to film their experience and how to become storytellers because once you know we s we send them out to their locations, we're not there. We can't produce anything. So we rely a hundred percent on them getting the footage to make a show. And it's not as easy as it seems, because for a lot of people, this doesn't come naturally, you know, filming yourself and filming a scene with like multiple cameras while you're starving and cold and alone and scared. It's like it's a very big ask. And so part of my role there as well is just, you know, with my knowledge of post-production and knowing what we need to make a scene work, is teaching them that. And yeah, it can be a bit overwhelming at times, of course, because they've got so much on their minds, but you reap the rewards once the season starts, and then they start to film, and you realize that they have press record and they have filmed themselves, and it's all good. Once we send them off, as producers, we can't do anything, so we're just standing by in case they tap out. So if they want to leave the show, they call us, and then that's where we go in with cameras, we get them out of there, they they finish their story, and then I go through to post, which is where we build the episodes. So you get given an episode, and it's usually a range of days, so from day five of the experience all the way through to day 20, and you have to just sift through all those like thousands of hours of footage and whittle it down into a one-hour episode, and that is where the show is made, really, because it's you know, it's it's a huge, huge ask to have to find the gold in that content within the time that you're given and make an episode and tell their stories and do justice to that.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

It's so interesting. I mean, like the cast on this show, it's so unique because they have to have those survival skills. So I guess that is what they're cast on. But you know, they're not the types of people that are used to filming themselves all the time and performing for cameras. So they're a very unique cast and the trust that has to go into the people that are selected to be on the show to be able to deliver you something that eventually can make such compelling TV. Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

It's like our hands are tied as producers, you can't do anything, and that is a very scary thing, but also I think it's a format that really works for the type of person that probably doesn't really like to be in the in front of the camera. Like, yeah, it's a type of show where stillness is actually beautiful, and you sometimes get more in the moments when someone isn't talking, you know, they can sometimes forget that they left the camera on for three hours, and you're you know, they're probably sitting down contemplating something, and then you know, you can just sense that they're upset, and that I think is where the the magic is of the show. It's not necessarily people that you know are very like showy and and hey, how are you? and and YouTube being legends, they are naturally quieter and internal, and as long as the camera is rolling on that, that's beautiful. That's the point of difference.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Yeah, definitely. I'm so interested to know, like, how much are they filming day to day? Oh my god, it's really a lot, a lot of footage.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

In fact, someone did counter the post CP last season, gave me a number. I can't remember, but it was well and truly into the thousands of hours of footage. And yeah, again, it's not all riveting. Sometimes it can just be a camera, a GoPro that was left on or turns on by accident in someone's pocket. But again, as a post-producer, it would be a huge mistake to not watch that. Like, and I'm not saying you have to sit there like this and watch it for 15 hours, but you have to at least scrub through it, you have to like watch it at least fast because you never know what's gonna happen. You know, those are the shots that can give something away. Maybe it's in their audio, maybe you hear them crying and they didn't want to film themselves crying, but they forgot that a GoPro was on, and you know, and that's when you start to understand the cast members a bit more. Those unguarded moments are the ones that give you everything. So yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot to watch.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

And I imagine there's a lot of challenges that come with posting on a show like Alone that is unstructured, there's a lot of rushes, it hasn't been shot by a professional film crew. I guess what is the biggest challenge that you face on that show in post?

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Yeah, it's rare that you're gonna have a scene that is beautifully shot, or at least shot with everything that you need a beginning, middle, and end, and maybe two camera angles that you can cut between them. That is a luxury that we very rarely get. But luckily, like there's freaking amazing editors that work on the show that creatively make that work. But I think the main challenge is because all these episodes are being sort of cut at the same time. It's like we do one episode, great, get that one out the door, then start on episode two. It's like sometimes episodes one, two, three, four, or five are sort of uh staggered but happening at the same time, and there's overlap. And so, how do you track the character arcs of these people throughout the series? And that's where having like a really good post-executive producer that oversees these narratives is critical. And yeah, the last two seasons Joseph McMahon was the post-CP and he was fantastic at that because also sometimes the narratives are very similar, you know. It's and they're all they're all doing the same thing, which is trying to survive. So it's about figuring out what is the best story and how can we keep the episodes moving along so that they're interesting.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Yeah, it must be so rewarding when you do find the gold in the rushes and you do find those moments that are so powerful.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Yes, yes, and again, on a show like this, those moments are usually the ones you would probably skip through on a different show when on different set sets of rushes. Yeah, I I always say, you know, when we do the show, it's like you need to watch everything. You actually just do, and I don't you can do it on like fast forward or whatever, but like go through the timeline and and watch. And sometimes there's stuff that happens that maybe was missed on the first watch, and sometimes you have to watch the the audio waveform. If it peaks, maybe they fell over or whatever. But yeah, when you find those moments, you're like, ha, and you know when you find them as well. Because my I guess my biggest weapon in when I'm producing is like going with your gut. Like when you watch something, and on on that first watch, when there's something that makes you feel something and you don't know why it's made you feel something, you you make sure you you mark it on, you know, you make note of it because if you had that reaction, the viewer who's also watching it for the first time probably will as well. And that's usually the best content.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yeah. And if you don't mark it, like for sure, you will spend weeks looking for it, going, I know I've seen this myth that I need, and I didn't know I needed it at the time.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Yes, yes. Actually, part of like post-producing a lot of it is spending the first two years figuring out your systems for like management of footage and how you like organize your stuff. I feel like that took me a really not yeah, really long time to to learn, you know, how do you categorize things so that they're ready for you when you need them as you're watching stuff. So, yeah, definitely. I always muck everything up.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

It takes time, but it's so worth it.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Yeah.

unknown 31:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Look, I mean, Jules, it's so clear that you are very passionate about what you do. What is it that you love about the TV industry?

SPEAKER_02 31:54

I love that we get the privilege to tell uh human stories. And I know that sounds so wanky, but it's true. And when I say like human stories, I'm not saying, you know, big, hard-hitting stories about someone's trauma. It can even be like a simple story of heartbreak that happens on Love Island, you know. I think there is so much stuff, like basically everything that we see is universal, and we probably have felt a similar way. And I think what I love is the ability to, yeah, take that footage and make a scene that is compelling and that you know can make someone else feel something. That's the thing I love the most. And I actually think it's a privilege to be able to do that, be it for entertainment, be it for educational purposes, like say on Alone, the winner of season one, Gina, she has a harrowing story of losing a child, and being able to watch the footage of her telling the camera while she's out alone on the land, the passing of a daughter, and then having the privilege to draft that narrative and to put it out into the world is the the best thing about my job, I think.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Yeah, it's amazing to be able to tell stories, especially ones as powerful and meaningful as that.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Yeah, and the other thing as well about the industry is we get to do cool shit. Like we actually just do get to go to cool places, and you know, you've done I'm a celeb, you get to go to South Africa. That's another thing. People actually sometimes don't think that the show is filmed in South Africa, and it's like, nah, we we get to go and you're living there for six weeks or whatever it is, same with alone, same with Love Island. Like it's rare to have the opportunity to just travel the world for for work in such a fun capacity.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah, definitely. It is an industry that is going through a lot of change and there's been a lot of shift in the industry lately. As a freelancer, what do you think the biggest changes have been in the industry over the last couple of years?

SPEAKER_02 34:11

I've noticed that as the audience has moved away largely from TV and they've gone to different platforms, and so with that, there's less money in TV. But of course, networks are still making shows, and so often I find now the biggest challenge is you get less time to make an episode, but the expectations are the same, and there's also less less money when the show is made, and so yeah, I the hardest thing now is in many ways, sometimes the joy is taken out of doing that thing we love, which is making stories and making cool episodes because you're struggling, you're just rushing to get it done in you know, the timeline that you've been given. And then, yeah, that I think is the biggest challenge I'm seeing currently. And then I think another challenge that has existed maybe always in TV, but maybe more so now is you know, TV works mainly with on a freelance basis, and so you're you're having to map out your year. It's like a big puzzle of contracts, like okay, I want to do this show, and if I do this show, it means then I've got three weeks that I need to fill with other jobs because otherwise, if you're not working, you don't get paid, you know, it's like it's contract to contract, and I think that can get quite relentless at times, and you're forced to do shows that maybe you don't really want to do, but it's to fill a gap, or maybe you you do that show and then it means you can't do this other one that you've been waiting to do, and that has been the struggle from the start for me. Yeah, it can get exhausting to and stressful, being like, Well, is my year gonna get sorted, you know, with work, or am I gonna have a huge chunk with no work?

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Yeah, and I think that was less of a worry a few years ago because there was just so much work, and it was more like who do I upset by turning this down because I've already said yes to this or I want to do this. Whereas there's less work around and there's a lot of people struggling, and it is a really tough time. The reality is our industry is changing, and I don't know what's gonna happen, but I guess I think it's just like upskilling in all different areas and being able to do multiple things so that you know you can keep yourself in work, like you're able to go from the field to post, which is also really valuable.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

It's interesting though, because I definitely earlier on, and and still part of me believes this. I always saw me being a jack of all trades as a bit of a disadvantage because I I assumed that then employers would get my CV and think, oh well, she hasn't really committed to any, like she's saying she can do all this stuff, but can she actually do it to a high degree, you know? And so for a really long time, I actually tried to like pigeonhole myself back into like post-producing land and put away the field producing. But now, of course, yeah, I'm realizing that you actually need to lean into that and and be like, hey, I can do this and I can also do that. And also, one thing that I've realized is that I think field and post are two different things, but man, we would all make great TV if people in post worked in field and people in field worked in post. Like if we could just do like skill swap for a couple of months, we would be everyone would be insane producers because you understand what is needed from the other party.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Yeah, you definitely have to put digital producer back on your CV. Yeah, I think I will.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

After this, I'm gonna I'm gonna do a recall of all my CVs that I've sent down the last week and I'm gonna update it because digital's back, baby.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

Digital is back in a big way. What advice would you give someone starting out in TV?

SPEAKER_02 38:06

Work in post, because that's where you can like you have eyes and ears on how a show is made, and you can like observe things, and even like if you want to do field, uh you can watch producers interviewing, for instance, and you learn from their mistakes, or you learn from what they're great at. Like, post is such a good base to to really understand how a show is made, and I think if you start with that and then you want to go into field, at least you will know what you need to get on the field for for post, you know. So that's one piece of advice. Of course, if you don't like post-producing or you know, editing or whatever, maybe don't do that. And the other thing is reach out to people, like it's an industry that um operates on connections with people and just being on people's radar. And the reason I say this is because it's not like a a traditional industry where if a role is needed, there will be a a job ad put up on LinkedIn necessarily. A lot of times it's word of mouth, and you know, if if a company does need to produce a last minute, yeah, they're probably not going to put out an ad, or they might, but also that executive will probably look to their colleagues and go, hey, do you know of anyone that's available at the moment? Are they good? You know, it's a time saver, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Yeah, to be able to just go, Do you know someone? Are they good? Great, let's get them in. Oh my god, yeah. There's nothing better than being referred by someone.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Like you've basically got the job if that's the case. So yeah, that's something that I definitely would have, um, I would have liked to have known earlier because I would have been a bit better at because I kind of just and I still I still do this to an extent. I think, oh, well, if I'm good, people are gonna reach out to me. And actually, that's not how it works. You have to like email, you have to text, you have to do whatever just to remind people uh that you are available and you exist and you're keen.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Definitely, especially when there's more and more working from home, in post and things like that. There's not as much face-to-face time, so that's really important. That's right. Yeah, especially now in post after COVID.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Um, one of the greatest things is that you, you know, we've got systems that really work remotely, but it does mean that yeah, it's it's you're out of the loop a lot more because you're not having those incidental chats in the kitchen with someone from a different production. You're just in your little house like I am right now.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

I'm such a people person when I'm working from home. I'm like, I just like I have the need to text other producers on the show. I'm like, I need to know someone's in this with me. Big time.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

I'm always like, and I think I come across as I mean, you might know I've worked with you, but like I um, yeah, I love a little chat. I love to know what they've done on the weekend and just bond over something dumb because I literally do not talk to a single person the whole day. Yeah. Um, so yeah, that's important.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Before we go, I would love to get to some quick fire questions. Yes. All right, are you ready? I don't think I am, but let's do it. What is your favorite reality TV show to watch? Love Island. What was the last TV show you watched? The New Years. It's a Spanish drama series. You're Argentinian, right? So you're like, I've missed that whole storyline here.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Yeah, no, it was a it's a show that I it's actually an amazing show, but I'm saying it's the opposite of like reality. It's like a very intense, like love story that goes over the course of 10 years. So it's beautiful, but probably no one knows it.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Yeah. Who is the most famous person you've met through working in TV? Kelly Rowland. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, I'm not mad about that one. What is your dream show to work on that you haven't already worked on?

SPEAKER_02 42:11

I would love to do any documentary with Louis Thareau. I would just love to be along there for the ride.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

What kind of topic would you want to do with him?

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Oh my god, the weird, weird stuff. Like, get me into a weird town in the States with like high rates of incest or something. I don't know, like maybe not that, but like just weird. I would feel very safe with him, and I think he has an amazing ability to just like connect with the weirdest people, and I want to learn from that.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Best location you've been to for work? The Arctic Circle for Alone. What cancelled TV show needs to make a comeback? Oh my god, Ready Steady Cook.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Didn't it make a comeback like last year? Is it still on? You've just made my day. You can you can get on that. I love that show. Have you ever been on TV?

SPEAKER_02 43:06

Maybe incidentally. Oh, actually, well, I mean, on alone, you will you'll see me getting off a boat. And I've never been into it. I'm not that interesting to be on TV. No.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

What is the weirdest thing you've done in television?

SPEAKER_02 43:20

Oh, okay. This is actually a good story. So last year we I worked on the reboot of Talking About Your Generation for Channel 10. One of the things that we had to do, you could have to come up with games for the celebrities to play. And one of it was they had to guess the famous criminal, you know, Chappelle Corby. So we would have like a boogie board. And then another one was Melissa Caddock, who was that financial lady who went missing and they found her foot on Bondi Beach or somewhere in the eastern suburbs. And so we had to source a severed foot, a replica of a severed foot.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

And we did. I just pitch you driving around with your like severed foot in your handbag, getting it back to set. It was actually really realistic. If you could be on any reality TV show, what would you be on? Survivor.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Oh my god, I would love to do the challenges. I mean, I wouldn't be very good at the manipulation and the and the games, you know, psychologically, but man, get me on those challenges. I think bit of fun, bit of fun.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

See, I mean I've tried some of those challenges and I'm terrible. If you could have dinner with any celebrity, dead or alive, who would it be?

SPEAKER_02 44:31

Uh well, you know, I was gonna say messy because he obviously just won the World Cup for Argentina, you know, in 2022. But he's actually quite a boring guy. So I don't think the dinner would have much chat. But you know what? I still would love to um be able to touch him, touch his head or it's something to be like, oh my god, you're real.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Maybe you won't be the best dinner guest, in his opinion. Thank you so much, Jules. It's been so nice chatting to you. Like you've had such an interesting career. I love how you've done all these different things, and I just think like I love how much you love television.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

I do, and it's you know, sometimes, especially now, people get a bit down about the the state of the industry, but I I do believe that yeah, people are consuming content more than ever, and so it's just a phase of like realignment that we're going through, and so I'm excited to see what happens next. Like I said, it's the resurgence of digital. So let's go.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

This is beyond reality.