It's the second to last episode of Season 3 fellow daydreamers, so it's time for another visit from Charlie's wife Trish Barillas. It's been a year since Trish last came on CBP, and this week they discuss the past year, along with thoughts on aging parents, anxiety, and Trish's decision to let go of her frozen eggs and donate them to science. It's a wide ranging conversation about some very relatable life issues. You can follow CBP on Instagram @creatingbehavior, and Charlie's NYC acting conservatory, the Maggie Flanigan Studio @maggieflaniganstudio. You can also check out Trish at https://www.trishbarillas.com Theme music by https://www.thelawrencetrailer.com. For written transcripts, to leave a voicemail on SpeakPipe, or contact Charlie for private coaching, check out https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com
It's the second to last episode of Season 3 fellow daydreamers, so it's time for another visit from Charlie's wife Trish Barillas. It's been a year since Trish last came on CBP, and this week they discuss the past year, along with thoughts on aging parents, anxiety, and Trish's decision to let go of her frozen eggs and donate them to science. It's a wide ranging conversation about some very relatable life issues. You can follow CBP on Instagram @creatingbehavior, and Charlie's NYC acting conservatory, the Maggie Flanigan Studio @maggieflaniganstudio. You can also check out Trish at https://www.trishbarillas.com Theme music by https://www.thelawrencetrailer.com. For written transcripts, to leave a voicemail on SpeakPipe, or contact Charlie for private coaching, check out https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com
Charlie Sandlan:
So it's the second to last episode of season three, and you know what that means? It's time for my wife, Trish Barillas. How you doing, babe?
Trish Barillas:
I'm good.
Charlie Sandlan:
Are you?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah.
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh, excellent. I'm glad to hear that. What are we talking about today?
Trish Barillas:
We're talking about some personal stuff.
Charlie Sandlan:
What was that? Is that your attempt at a radio voice?
Trish Barillas:
That's my me mimicking you.
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh, please.
Trish Barillas:
So I'm getting very personal and I'm talking about my panic attacks. I'm talking about my decision to freeze eggs. My journey on wanting kids, then choosing not to have kids, and letting my eggs go and donating them to science.
Charlie Sandlan:
That's a lot.
Trish Barillas:
It is a lot. And then we throw in some film in there. We throw in some-
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah, we talk about some film review, some theater review. We go all over the place.
Trish Barillas:
It's a rollercoaster.
Charlie Sandlan:
So it's time for you to do what you know you need to do. Take it away.
Trish Barillas:
All right.
Charlie Sandlan:
Wait a minute. First of all, this is A Face of Anxiety, Part Three.
Trish Barillas:
Put your phone back in your pocket, creating behavior-
Charlie Sandlan:
Pocket?
Trish Barillas:
Pocket. In your pocket. In your pocket.
Charlie Sandlan:
All right, governor.
Trish Barillas:
All right, governor, put your phone back in your pocket. Just creating behavior thoughts now.
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh my god. Jesus. Can you just say it? Just say it. Just say it. God. Just say it.
Trish Barillas:
Put your phone back in your pocket. Creating behavior starts now. Well, hello, my fellow Daydreamers.
Charlie Sandlan:
There you go. See? You got to have a little flare with it though. Well, hello, my fellow Daydreamers.
Trish Barillas:
Or you could just do it, since that's your thing.
Charlie Sandlan:
I know, but you come on once a year.
Trish Barillas:
Do you make people do this?
Charlie Sandlan:
No.
Trish Barillas:
Right.
Charlie Sandlan:
No, but it's funny to have you do it.
Trish Barillas:
And moving on.
Charlie Sandlan:
Okay. We just got back from Guatemala. We both were down there for Christmas. You have nothing to say about that?
Trish Barillas:
Oh, it was great-
Charlie Sandlan:
Why are you just staring at me? This is a conversation.
Trish Barillas:
Okay. Well, there wasn't a question asked.
Charlie Sandlan:
I just said we got back from Guatemala. And how was it for you?
Trish Barillas:
It was restful. It was hard work. My dad is really quite the drill sergeant. And I just loved it. I did not work. I really made a conscious effort to just be in the moment.
Charlie Sandlan:
Let me ask you a question. How are you handling the fact that your parents are getting very old and that you start to think about, well, when they move on, how you handling that?
Trish Barillas:
Well, I'm going to start that therapy process sooner than later.
Charlie Sandlan:
You're going to get a therapist?
Trish Barillas:
Well, I have a therapist, but I'm going to do some grief counseling before that happens.
Charlie Sandlan:
You're going to get grief counseling before they-
Trish Barillas:
Correct.
Charlie Sandlan:
They die.
Trish Barillas:
Right. Not so much for my mom and not because I don't love her. It's because-
Charlie Sandlan:
That's an important caveat.
Trish Barillas:
I have a very strong attachment to Coconut.
Charlie Sandlan:
That would be papa.
Trish Barillas:
That would be papa. But I feel as though I have a good relationship with death and-
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, what's that mean to you to have a good relationship to death?
Trish Barillas:
It means that I look at life the way that it is, rather the way that I need it to be or want it to be. I lost a best friend when I was 12 to a very freak accident. So-
Charlie Sandlan:
Very freak accident.
Trish Barillas:
So I think that really shook me so much and made me realize that anyone can die at any age for any reason at any moment.
Charlie Sandlan:
How did your friend die?
Trish Barillas:
He was riding his bicycle with a couple friends, and as he turned a corner he was talking to someone behind him and then he hit the corner of a landscaping truck and the handlebar punctured his lung and he internally bled to death. And it happened very quickly.
Charlie Sandlan:
How old was he?
Trish Barillas:
He was 12.
Charlie Sandlan:
Jesus.
Trish Barillas:
So that was my first intro to death. And ever since then I've had a lot of people pass from freak accidents or...
Charlie Sandlan:
Didn't you have a friend that fell down a flight of stairs?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah, he fell down a flight of stairs, hit his head and never woke up again.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, what was it like at 12 years old to process a tragedy like that?
Trish Barillas:
Oh, it was horrific.
Charlie Sandlan:
Or wrap your mind around it, even.
Trish Barillas:
Horrific. It shook the whole town. It took a long time. They put us all in therapy, me and the three friends who was with him, which was very odd. It didn't help at all. We didn't know why we were there. And it took about a year for me to acknowledge that he had passed. And then my parents did whatever they could and I was angry just everyone, everything, God, religion. So my parents did the best they could and then they let me navigate it. And I feel as though, now, at my age, having done the work I do, I have a very good relationship with death today.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, now those of you that don't know because maybe you haven't listened to A Face of Anxiety Part One or A Face of Anxiety Part Two, my wife is a professional life coach who herself suffers from generalized anxiety disorder and she coaches people on anxiety, breakups, career-
Trish Barillas:
And relationships.
Charlie Sandlan:
And relationships. Absolutely. But do you ever get clients that are dealing with the death or fear of death or fear of parents dying or getting...?
Trish Barillas:
I don't. I've had clients who have gone through losing someone, that I can coach through. However, I do feel that grief counseling and taking someone that's specific in grief is the best option. With coaching, it's about moving forward, having an action plan, really utilizing every tool possible. And it's not a specialty of mine, grief. But I do have a lot of people that are fantastic in the area, and then I refer them out.
Charlie Sandlan:
Can I ask a favor of you?
Trish Barillas:
Sure.
Charlie Sandlan:
Thank you. Can you really watch the ums? Because I have to edit all those out and I'd rather not have to spend time with the ums.
Trish Barillas:
Okay.
Charlie Sandlan:
No. And it'll also help you just in life to cut out the ums. Because sometimes I know I have people on here and the ums are just...
Trish Barillas:
Relentless.
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh my God. All I do is cut ums. It's surprising, when you listen to recordings, interviews, you really don't know how much work has gone into cleaning up a conversation so that it sounds really, really cohesive.
Trish Barillas:
I, too, have edited myself for YouTube channel, et cetera, and that's when I noticed I said um all the time.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, okay, so allow me to bring it to your attention yet again. Listen, a lot of big things happened in the last year. Primarily, number one, I think I speak for both of us when I say moving back to Manhattan was the highlight of 2022.
Trish Barillas:
It was the highlight, it was necessary. New York City is the heart of my soul. It is a chaos that my personality needs.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah. Well, can you describe what that year and a half out in Weehawken felt like to you?
Trish Barillas:
It felt like we were in pandemic. If that was a feeling, that's what it felt like. It was safe, it was a bubble. It was great for what it was, but it wasn't my lifestyle. It's not who I am. We were displaced as New Yorkers. And I think it was perfect for us, but then it was time to go back to real life and who we truly are as humans. And that is-
Charlie Sandlan:
Aren't we] being a little grandiose.
Trish Barillas:
Fucking New Yorkers.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, no, we are fucking New Yorkers. I think we both realized that neither one of us ever wanted to leave Manhattan again.
Trish Barillas:
No, I realized it way before you did. I cried, I was... No, I was unaccepting.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, the apartment was incredible. That's why I was okay with it.
Trish Barillas:
But I think that's when you really, truly know where you want to be is when you're willing to give up something that's so beautiful and bigger and all of it, all the bells and whistles.
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh, it had bells and whistles.
Trish Barillas:
And I didn't care. I just want to be happy.
Charlie Sandlan:
But taking that ferry every day was just fucking killing me.
Trish Barillas:
Well, listen, many people do it. Many people commute.
Charlie Sandlan:
I think if you had a family and you wanted a nice little neighborhood.
Trish Barillas:
Yeah. It's just not for us. That's all.
Charlie Sandlan:
You also caught COVID twice.
Trish Barillas:
Twice.
Charlie Sandlan:
It cost us last Christmas. After our episode, you caught it and we had to cancel all of our Christmas plans.
Trish Barillas:
Yes. When you gave me COVID. We lived in a bubble.
Charlie Sandlan:
First off, let me just say, I have never tested positive. So I don't know how you could say I gave you COVID when I have yet to test positive.
Trish Barillas:
Well, I was living in a bubble.
Charlie Sandlan:
There's now, "Well." Let's not throw around accusations.
Trish Barillas:
Somehow I get COVID and it was hellacious, as I'm sure many people have experienced. And then the second time around was a lot easier. But man, it's just fucking brutal, either way.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah, it was bad. But I really stepped up to the plate, I guess I would like to say, when it came to taking care of you. Didn't I?
Trish Barillas:
I'm just going to ignore... Would you like a star?
Charlie Sandlan:
Actually, I would. I would put it on the refrigerator.
Trish Barillas:
Do we have a fridge?
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, it's an easy bake oven fridge. That was one of the drawbacks of moving back into Manhattan. We sized it down.
Trish Barillas:
Size down and forgo a kitchen.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, we have a kitchen, so to speak.
Trish Barillas:
Well, yeah. Ish.
Charlie Sandlan:
It is a kitchen. It's functional. It's got everything you need. We're just used to huge kitchen, huge island. I know one of the other big things that you did this year was start Tuesdays with Trish.
Trish Barillas:
Tuesdays with Trish.
Charlie Sandlan:
Now. So talk about that. What was that?
Trish Barillas:
It started for May Mental Health Awareness Month. I realized a lot of people needed to connect, especially being so isolated during pandemic, not being in offices. So I thought, "Why don't I just sit in a park and see if people will talk to me?" Without giving them my background, without them knowing I'm a life coach or how many years I've been doing it, without my Instagram. It was more of a social experiment and it was very successful, people want to talk, and I loved it. And I will continue it throughout the spring and summer. And I just think it was something I also needed and I wanted to connect.
Charlie Sandlan:
What do you mean it's something that you also needed?
Trish Barillas:
Well, we were stuck in a bubble for two and a half years, and I didn't have an office space yet and I wanted to talk to people in-person, have that energy connection.
Charlie Sandlan:
So you would just go to a park, let's say Madison Square Park, sit at a table. You had a cardboard advertisement that said, "Tuesdays with Trish," and you would just sit at this park table?
Trish Barillas:
I would sit without sunglasses, without my phone, and I would just look at people and hope that they would want to come and talk to me. It was very humbling.
Charlie Sandlan:
And why was it humbling?
Trish Barillas:
Because who sits... Have you sat for a... Well, you probably have. But most New Yorkers have a hard time sitting without being distracted, without listening to music or a podcast, or being on the phone or scrolling. So to sit and really pay attention to other people around you-
Charlie Sandlan:
So you're talking about being very present?
Trish Barillas:
Very present.
Charlie Sandlan:
Which is an acting fundamental, being present and in the moment.
Trish Barillas:
Correct. And then trying to allude and give out an energy that says, "Hey, come talk to me. I'm approachable."
Charlie Sandlan:
How do you exude that energy? How do you do that?
Trish Barillas:
I just keep myself open and I try to think of things that make me happy, and I try to make eye contact, and I follow people with my eyes and I just give a little smile. And generally, people come and they sit.
Charlie Sandlan:
And what do they say to you? What is this? What the fuck is this, Tuesday's with Trish?"
Trish Barillas:
Everybody thinks I'm selling something. Most of the men are like, "So what do you got? What are you selling?" I said, "I'm not selling anything. I'm actually here to listen." And then people, well, the women are very different. They get it a lot quicker. Men think that there's always a catch. "Oh, do I got to pay you? Do I have to give you an email? No, it's free. You just sit. Your limit is generally 15 minutes, sometimes maybe 20, depending on what we're talking about." But the youngest person was 16, the oldest was 65.
Charlie Sandlan:
So let's say, let's look at this 16-year-old. He sits down, doesn't know who you are, knows nothing about you, nothing. He just sees you sitting at this table with this sign and he just starts pouring himself out to you?
Trish Barillas:
Basically, yeah.
Charlie Sandlan:
What's he talk about?
Trish Barillas:
He was battling his feelings with someone that he cared about, basically love and navigating what that looks like. He just needed an unbiased, non-judgmental person who didn't know him or anybody in his life to talk to.
Charlie Sandlan:
I know you do have young clients. Those teenage years are very precarious time.
Trish Barillas:
I only started doing that this year. I only started really opening up. Actually, I lied. During pandemic is when I opened up to a younger demographic.
Charlie Sandlan:
Is it usually a parent who reaches out and says, "Hey, listen, I've got a kid and I'm worried and they need some help"?
Trish Barillas:
Correct. So that at one point I just said, "No, you have to be 21." And I think that for a younger demographic therapy is more so what I would push for. That's more therapy, child psychology. But these parents have tried everything. They've been everywhere. They've gone to every therapist up, down, sideways. So when they come to me and say, "This is my last hope, please, could you just speak to them? If it doesn't work, you can let me know." So I started taking them and I'm glad I did.
Charlie Sandlan:
My thought is that these kids, when they start talking, it's the parent that's the problem. Or the parents are part of their problem? Or is that not true?
Trish Barillas:
In most cases it's not true.
Charlie Sandlan:
Interesting.
Trish Barillas:
Because they're coming to me very specifically about anxiety.
Charlie Sandlan:
Crippling anxiety?
Trish Barillas:
Crippling anxiety.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, okay, so there's anxiety and then there's something I guess... What's the difference between just being anxious and having crippling anxiety? How does crippling anxiety manifest itself?
Trish Barillas:
Well, when you're anxious, you can really pinpoint it back to a thing. And once that thing, whether it's an interview or a presentation or a date, et cetera, is removed, the anxiety dissipates, crippling anxiety. You can't really pinpoint it back to a certain thing, object, et cetera. So when it's crippling anxiety, it's just all-consuming and it's there, and it doesn't go away. And you're just on this horrific rollercoaster and you just want to get off. But you don't know how.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, when I think of crippling, it's like it shuts you down or you can't function, you can't... I guess people go through life and go to their jobs and do their things, but they are just anxious as fuck.
Trish Barillas:
Well, mental illness is silent. You can't really see it. It doesn't appear on you. We're really good at hiding it, so it's not easily detected. And people don't understand it because you show up to the world very differently. And when you show up to the world differently, that's what people take in. It's the same as Instagram. You don't know what happened before that picture was taken or that video, you don't know how many fights had happened. You don't know really anything, it's just this highlight and you make your own assumptions that things are great and picture perfect. Mental illness, it just doesn't show up. And we're so good at masking it.
Charlie Sandlan:
But I see it in my students. I have a handful, certainly, that I can just see the anxiety it's in their very being. And you could just see, it's like a vibe... To me, it looks like a vibration. There's just this vibrating tension and you can see it in them. And especially after being with you and understanding anxiety a lot more. I feel for them, I really do.
Trish Barillas:
Well, you teach on human behavior, your empathic, your EQ is quite high.
Charlie Sandlan:
It keeps people from being their full free, unbridled, authentic self.
Trish Barillas:
100%.
Charlie Sandlan:
It's really unfortunate.
Trish Barillas:
I don't know what my life would've looked like had I started my med journey earlier and gotten the help that I really needed earlier. It would've been very different.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, that's interesting, because even though you're on meds, which has been a life changer for you, you still have... You'll have a panic attack. You had a really bad one done in Guat. When you have a panic attack like that, how do you... Why are you waving me off?
Trish Barillas:
Well, I didn't want this all to be about anxiety.
Charlie Sandlan:
It's not going to be about anxiety. But you did have a really bad panic attack down there.
Trish Barillas:
Yeah, it was fucking brutal.
Charlie Sandlan:
Right. So why isn't that worth talking about?
Trish Barillas:
Well, because there's so many other things I want to get to.
Charlie Sandlan:
We'll get to it. This my show, I'm leading it. I'm taking us down to the path. Have faith in me, babe.
Trish Barillas:
Isn't that a song?
Charlie Sandlan:
I don't know, it could be. But have-
Trish Barillas:
"Have a little faith in me."
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh my God.
Trish Barillas:
Yeah, it is a song.
Charlie Sandlan:
Really? Let's hear it. Go ahead.
Trish Barillas:
Yeah. I don't know the rest of the words.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, let me just ask you this, because we'll get off anxiety here, but there are a lot of people that listen to this show that have anxiety.
Trish Barillas:
Of course. We're in a mental health crisis.
Charlie Sandlan:
So you had a bad panic attack. You woke up in the middle of the night, you were asleep. Because I think a lot of your panic attacks happen at night. You'll wake up in a panic.
Trish Barillas:
Right. Which generally correlated to my stomach. If I don't feel well, if I've eaten something, I have a very sensitive constitution, as you would say. And when my stomach acts up, to a non-anxious, you would get up, maybe you would have a bowel movement, maybe you'd even throw up and it wouldn't trigger you. The lead up to whatever's going to happen with my stomach, that's when the panic sets in. And so yeah, it was 2:30, I woke up, my mom and I was convulsing. It hung around for a while.
Charlie Sandlan:
How did you get yourself through it?
Trish Barillas:
I had to use my meds. And I used a ice pack, I walked throughout the house, my mom stayed up with me. She even offered for me to sleep in her bed. And I said, "I am 44. I know how to handle this." But she made sure that I was okay before she went to sleep.
Charlie Sandlan:
Now, let me just say the reason why you had to get up and get your mom is because I had already left and come back to New York. So I don't want people thinking that I'm just sleeping through when you're having a massive panic attack and you have to go get your mom.
Trish Barillas:
Yeah. Well, normally I would've been okay. It's when I start throwing up, that really sends me into a spiral because I'm afraid I'm going to get food poisoning. That's just the what-if. And so as soon as that happens, I have to wake up somebody.
Charlie Sandlan:
And after the fact, when you look back after a couple days, do you just let it go and it's out of your mind, or do you ruminate on it or perseverate about it?
Trish Barillas:
Mentally, I don't ruminate on it, but my body remembers and it takes a few days for my body to let go of it. So it's something that you have to practice and something I have to consciously say to my body, "You are safe, you are okay, let it go." Because then anytime my stomach feels weird, I now think, "Oh God, what if I have a panic attack?" And that's what anxiety does, it hangs on to the fear. So you got to work harder after that to make sure that you're going to be stable, and that that's not likely to happen. But sometimes you can create panic if you think about it that way.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah, that's interesting. You want to get off anxiety?
Trish Barillas:
Yes. Listen, this is what I do all day, every day.
Charlie Sandlan:
All right. So then go to trishbarillas.com if you really want to find out more about what she does. How about that?
Trish Barillas:
There you go.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, now going back to some big things that happened in the last year. I know that one of them was you making a decision to dispose of your frozen eggs?
Trish Barillas:
Well, I didn't dispose of them. I donated them to science.
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh, well, okay. All right. So they didn't get thrown in the garbage, so to speak?
Trish Barillas:
No.
Charlie Sandlan:
You donated your eggs to science. You gave up the idea that you were going to, at some point, inseminate yourself and bear a child.
Trish Barillas:
I did.
Charlie Sandlan:
So that must have been a really... I'm saying it like I didn't know, I went through it with you, so I do know it was not an easy decision. It took years for you to even get to that point.
Trish Barillas:
It was not an easy decision.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, when did you freeze your eggs?
Trish Barillas:
When I was 36.
Charlie Sandlan:
So at 36, you decided to freeze your eggs. And were you in a relationship at the time?
Trish Barillas:
I was single.
Charlie Sandlan:
You were single.
Trish Barillas:
I really wanted a family, or I thought I did. And I wanted to have a baby.
Charlie Sandlan:
So when you say, "I really wanted a family," that was something that you had been thinking about since you were young, probably?
Trish Barillas:
Oh, I mean as a-
Charlie Sandlan:
20s?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah. I've always thought, "Yes, I'm going to have a child." But the idea of a child was bigger than wanting the child.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, it's always about the idea. The idea is always more romanticized than the reality.
Trish Barillas:
And I also felt back then I was single, so I was looking for love. I just don't know if I was looking for it somewhere else. And if I wasn't going to find it in a partner, then at least I would find it in unconditional love through a child.
Charlie Sandlan:
And didn't you and one of your very good friends made a decision to do it at the same time?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah, me and my bestie, Carm.
Charlie Sandlan:
You froze your eggs?
Trish Barillas:
We both froze our eggs. We used the same doctors. We did it a few months apart. And she actually is a single mom and went ahead and has a beautiful baby boy.
Charlie Sandlan:
She got herself inseminated.
Trish Barillas:
She did. And she didn't even need the eggs. So that's my bad. Sorry, Carm.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, yeah. And now her child is probably one of, what, hundreds of siblings that are out there.
Trish Barillas:
I don't even know the statistics, but yes, he has many half siblings.
Charlie Sandlan:
Out there in the world?
Trish Barillas:
Yes.
Charlie Sandlan:
So you made a decision not to inseminate, but yet you held onto your eggs for what, eight years? Nine years?
Trish Barillas:
Yes. Something like that. I-
Charlie Sandlan:
36 and-
Trish Barillas:
36 to 44.
Charlie Sandlan:
To 44. So eight years.
Trish Barillas:
Yeah. And they're not cheap.
Charlie Sandlan:
And it's not cheap. No, it's not fucking cheap.
Trish Barillas:
No.
Charlie Sandlan:
How much does it cost a year to freeze eggs?
Trish Barillas:
It was about a 1000, 2000. Yeah. Around there.
Charlie Sandlan:
A year?
Trish Barillas:
A year.
Charlie Sandlan:
So almost two grand a year to keep your eggs in storage?
Trish Barillas:
Yes.
Charlie Sandlan:
That is a lot of money, eight years. You're talking about 16, 17 grand?
Trish Barillas:
Aside from when I froze them. And it wasn't-
Charlie Sandlan:
How much did that cost?
Trish Barillas:
That cost me around 20 grand.
Charlie Sandlan:
Get the out fuck out of here.
Trish Barillas:
Yeah.
Charlie Sandlan:
That's like an IVF cycle.
Trish Barillas:
Well, I did it when it was new-ish. And companies were not-
Charlie Sandlan:
So it was almost not 20 grand to freeze your eggs?
Trish Barillas:
Because I also was having issues. They found that I had a high risk of miscarriage, I had to take a different set of injections than Carm.
Charlie Sandlan:
So the money never made you hesitate. You weren't like, "Oh, fuck."
Trish Barillas:
No, no, it didn't. It didn't. You know what it was? I think when I was dating, I wasn't able to date freely because I kept assessing from every first date, "Are you going to be a good dad? Are you a good candidate?" I wasn't dating to see if I really liked somebody. I was dating as an interviewer and a scout.
Charlie Sandlan:
"Are you good enough to inseminate me?"
Trish Barillas:
Yeah. It was getting in the way of me dating.
Charlie Sandlan:
Jesus. That's a very interesting point. I'm I'm sure you're not the only woman out there. I'm sure men do it, too. That men that want a family or want children, for sure. That that's probably a...
Trish Barillas:
Yeah. It was causing me stress in my dating life. So I decided, if I freeze my eggs, maybe I would take off that pressure from myself, because now I'm not rushing against time. I've bought myself some time.
Charlie Sandlan:
And if you can't find somebody, you'll just get what?
Trish Barillas:
Unfreeze them.
Charlie Sandlan:
Unfreeze them and get inseminated.
Trish Barillas:
Have a surrogate. There was more options. So I'm glad that I did it. I am.
Charlie Sandlan:
But babe, you're talking 35, $36,000 to-
Trish Barillas:
It was worth-
Charlie Sandlan:
For nothing.
Trish Barillas:
Well, no. I had a really interesting journey.
Charlie Sandlan:
Okay, so let's talk about it. So at 36, you freeze your eggs. You think, "Okay, I want to have children and I want a family. And now I know that I'm secure in that. If I need to go this route, I can go this route"?
Trish Barillas:
Correct.
Charlie Sandlan:
Okay. So then what happens? Year goes by, two, three, get close to 40. We start dating, you had almost turned 40 when we started dating. So three years after you froze your eggs, we start dating.
Trish Barillas:
Right. And the reason you and I broke up was because, well few, you said you, "Didn't want to be tied down to a country."
Charlie Sandlan:
I said, I didn't want to be tethered, yes, to Guatemala for the rest of my life.
Trish Barillas:
And that you-
Charlie Sandlan:
You say that like that's not a reasonable concern.
Trish Barillas:
I say it because I'm the person that received that information and I'm the Guatemalan. Yes, I'm going to say it.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah. But you know, I have wonderlust, babe. I want to travel. I want to see the world. And the thought of all of my spare time... No, I don't think this anymore because I love Guatemala. But, "Every year I'm going down to Guatemala two or three times? That's going to be the rest of my life?" I didn't appeal to me at first.
Trish Barillas:
Right. And you not wanting children didn't appeal to me at that time either.
Charlie Sandlan:
You threw me right out of your apartment.
Trish Barillas:
I said, get the fuck out.
Charlie Sandlan:
I was just being honest.
Trish Barillas:
And so was I.
Charlie Sandlan:
Okay. So yeah, we did break up because I said I didn't want to be a father. I didn't want children. And of course, then we got back together. But yet you still wanted kids. Where'd it change?
Trish Barillas:
I found the love that I wanted and-
Charlie Sandlan:
Thank you, babe.
Trish Barillas:
All right. Calm down. And then reality hits.
Charlie Sandlan:
Reality?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah.
Charlie Sandlan:
Because you weren't in it for the money. You certainly didn't marry for money. Is that why?
Trish Barillas:
No, I did not marry for money. And I-
Charlie Sandlan:
If I was Charlie money bags and had millions of dollars, you probably would've pressed me to have children.
Trish Barillas:
Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. But the fact that, yes, we're both entrepreneurs, we have to hustle, we're creatives, and we live in New York City. And that comes at a huge financial undertaking. And to have your kids or kid go to a good school, college activities, you have to be in a certain percentile.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah. Well, a lot of people say, "You know what? I really want a family. I'm getting out of here so that I can have a family." But you weren't willing to get out of here.
Trish Barillas:
I also have fought for so long to be in a good mental health state. And with pregnancy and children, there's so much that goes on with hormones and postpartum and identity loss. And I know because I coach these women, I did not want to lose something I worked so hard to get. And-
Charlie Sandlan:
One sec, what do you mean lose? Lose What?
Trish Barillas:
My mental stability.
Charlie Sandlan:
You mean with getting postpartum depression or that kind of thing?
Trish Barillas:
Just all of it. I'm someone that has generalized anxiety disorder, panic disorder, some OCD tendencies. Who knows how that would manifest when you add hormones and pregnancy? So-
Charlie Sandlan:
So when you started to really think about it, it scared you a bit?
Trish Barillas:
Well, when I thought about it, I had to be realistic. I had to really ask myself, "Are you willing to go through this? Give up probably your career?" Because one of us has to stay home. Clearly in this dynamic, it's generally the woman, not always, but generally.
Charlie Sandlan:
In this dynamic, it wasn't going to be me.
Trish Barillas:
It's definitely not you.
Charlie Sandlan:
No, no. Absolutely not.
Trish Barillas:
And I just thought, "You know what? These are not the way the cards are dealt for me." I think that finding my footing with my mental health and being able to do what I love and giving up the money that I used to make in corporate America, those were choices. And also, I'm a child of immigrants, and that comes with a whole different set of responsibilities. And I have worried about my parents since I was 13. I am their POA, which is Power of attorney, I am on every one of their accounts, I make every single one of their deals, I manage all their finances, and they have been my kids. So I feel as though I was definitely a parentified child. And at this point, it's about me. And I want what I have fought for and had given up. I've obviously given up the money aspect. I am in a world of work that is of service. And I realized that kids did not suit me at this current time.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, let me ask you this. Did you have any feelings or any thoughts about possibly passing along your anxiety to your kids? What if your kid had GAD or OCD?
Trish Barillas:
Oh, I wouldn't... Yeah.
Charlie Sandlan:
Can you pass it along? I guess it's because dad has anxiety. It got passed on to you.
Trish Barillas:
A lot of times it can be genetic. You never know because one sibling might have it, the other won't. My sisters are non-anxious. So you just don't know.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, did it scare you or did it worry you?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah. I could not look at my child, know the suffering, the depths of the suffering and not feel utterly responsible. Now, that's my own personal thought on it. That's my own struggle. And I love the thought of you and I fostering. I love that. I feel like that is what my calling probably is. When you have kids, it's not just, "Oh, we're married, let's have a kid."
Charlie Sandlan:
But that's what most people think. That's what most people do.
Trish Barillas:
I think it's changing. I think pandemic has really changed the outlook of-
Charlie Sandlan:
What makes you say that?
Trish Barillas:
Family dynamics. Because the younger generation is questioning themselves. "Do I really want a child? Can I financially have a child?" Back in the day, you were able to buy a house when you were 30. You can't do that now. It's not the same. We're not living in the same world at all.
Charlie Sandlan:
So this took years to evolve.
Trish Barillas:
Yeah.
Charlie Sandlan:
How old were you when you thought, "Okay, I know I don't want kids?"
Trish Barillas:
It was probably about 42.
Charlie Sandlan:
So a couple years ago?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah.
Charlie Sandlan:
So why did it take you another two, three years to get rid of your eggs?
Trish Barillas:
Well, I wanted to make sure that it was right. That it was a very clear, concise decision that I never regretted or looked back on or asked the opinions of others. It had to be mine. I knew it was happening when I stopped paying the bill.
Charlie Sandlan:
You just stopped paying.
Trish Barillas:
I had literally just stopped paying. I just stopped paying. And I don't know why I didn't do it then.
Charlie Sandlan:
Right. You're just flushing money right down the craper.
Trish Barillas:
It's not conscious. It's because I couldn't pick up the phone and have someone on the other line saying, "Hello, RMA. How can we help you today? Hey, yeah, so how do I get rid of my eggs?" I couldn't do that. I couldn't do it and I just kept pushing it off.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, so how did it happen?
Trish Barillas:
So the woman that worked there, and for the love of me, I'm forgetting her name, but she's lovely, she's hysterical. She called me and I was at Soho Works, and she said, "Hey, Patricia, we got to talk." And I knew it. And she said, "I'm going to ask you what you want to do and I'm going to stay on the phone with you for as long as you need." And she said, "I know you're past due and you've been with us for a while." And she was talking-
Charlie Sandlan:
For a while? You probably broke a record.
Trish Barillas:
No, I didn't. I think Carm still has her eggs. Sorry, Carm, with your full consent of using your name. So she was very matter-of-fact, she was just exactly what I needed in the moment. And I did tear up because this was it. This was the moment. And she said, "What would you like to do with your eggs? I'm going to give you some options, and so you can just give me the number." So she was like, "Option one, do you want to destroy them? Option two, do you want to donate them to science? Option three, do you want to give them up, meaning for somebody else?" And she said-
Charlie Sandlan:
Like for another woman who can't produce eggs and they would use yours?
Trish Barillas:
Correct. And I just froze for a minute. Then I said, "Tell me about option two." 'Cause I didn't know I could donate them to science. I just thought my only options were destroying them or giving them to someone. So the science thing really made me feel better. And she was so funny. And she just said, "Look, I know this is a hard decision. I get it. I'm going to be here for you. We're just going to talk this through. You tell me what you need." The way that she was saying it made it so, unfortunately, the word normal, that's the word I'm going to use. She made it so normal. It wasn't judgmental it, she wasn't sad for me. She was holding space. And this is probably what she does all day long. And I loved her for the way she showed up. And it was perfect. And-
Charlie Sandlan:
So you hang up the phone, and what was the feeling? What was the experience sitting there?
Trish Barillas:
Well, I said, "Option two." She said, "I'll send you..." Because then you got to bring your documents to get notarized and sign off on-
Charlie Sandlan:
So there's paperwork and everything?
Trish Barillas:
And then you got to get a certified mail. So everyone is basically knowing your business. And it was, I think the first conversation with her, that's what had taken me back a bit. I didn't ask anybody, I didn't tell anybody. I didn't even tell you. I just made my decision after that. I did call Carm and I said, "I just signed off on donating my eggs." And she said, "Good for you. What do you need?" And I said, "No, I'm good." I shed a few tears and then I moved on.
Charlie Sandlan:
And so where are you at with it now?
Trish Barillas:
It was a really great decision. It was the right decision. I know my body and I struggle with maintaining it as is. I'm not someone that can carry and that can have a baby, because my mental health is at risk. I'm a high risk for me. And it's one that I'm not willing to gamble with at this point in my life. I'm 44.
Charlie Sandlan:
That's an interesting way to look at it. I'm not willing to gamble my mental health for the sake of having a child.
Trish Barillas:
No, I can-
Charlie Sandlan:
But you didn't know that when you were 20, 25, 30.
Trish Barillas:
I didn't know it because I just was ignoring the fact of how bad my mental illness was. I just denied the fact that it was as bad as it is. And it doesn't mean that I can't have a fulfilled life. It just means that I'm a little bit different than a non-anxious. And it doesn't mean that people with mental illness can have children. All it means is that me, personally, my journey is my choice to preserve what I have built over the years. And my family could look like a million different things. My friends are family. I have a godson, James. And if we hopefully ever get into a two bedroom, whoop, whoop. Then we can-
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah, we can always hope, babe, always hope.
Trish Barillas:
Then I would love to foster. So I have a lot of time left in my life to give myself to a child and it'll appear how it appears.
Charlie Sandlan:
How do other women respond or react to you either having giving up your eggs or the fact that you're childless?
Trish Barillas:
I mean-
Charlie Sandlan:
Is there a stigma?
Trish Barillas:
There's always a stigma. I don't think it's particularly towards people in my life. I just think of the world. There's a stigma. "Oh, you're married. Do you have kids? Oh." But however, as I said before, I do feel that pandemic has completely changed the way couples and women in general are looking about their future. Because people that stayed home with their kids and had to teach and had to spend every waking moment.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah, no fucking way.
Trish Barillas:
Props to y'all. Because that's hard, man.
Charlie Sandlan:
It's brutal.
Trish Barillas:
And to have children, again, speaking as someone who lives in New York City, I just want to clarify that. It's very different. You need so much more finances to-
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, what I find very revealing is that if you are rich and you've got money, you are hiring somebody to help you raise your kid. Show me, you lined up 10 five percenters, and they all have kids, I bet you all 10 of them have nannies.
Trish Barillas:
Probably.
Charlie Sandlan:
Every single one of them. And poor people or just your average middle-class person, they don't have that luxury.
Trish Barillas:
No. They're doing it all.
Charlie Sandlan:
So of course it's brutal for the average person. For the rich, "Man, I fucking hire a nanny." A nanny per child.
Trish Barillas:
But if you ask-
Charlie Sandlan:
It's the only way to do it and still keep yourself sane, have a career, be happy.
Trish Barillas:
Right. And to be honest, those people who are in middle-class, if they have the option to get more help, they fucking would, because I would, too. Absolutely. And this is why I think back in the day when people lived in compounds, it was easy to have kids. It's like, what? There's always someone around.
Charlie Sandlan:
What do you mean back in the day when people lived in compounds? What are you talking about? Back in the day-
Trish Barillas:
Well, my mom lived in a compound.
Charlie Sandlan:
Are you talking about where multiple families lived together?
Trish Barillas:
Correct. To me, that's a-
Charlie Sandlan:
That is a Guatemalan thing.
Trish Barillas:
Yes.
Charlie Sandlan:
Or is it a Latin thing?
Trish Barillas:
I think it's a Latin thing. I'm sure there's other-
Charlie Sandlan:
What does it mean? There's a plot of land and there's four or homes and 30 people?
Trish Barillas:
There's four or five homes. And in Guatemala, that's more common than not.
Charlie Sandlan:
So when you say your mom grew up on a compound, or your family, what does that mean?
Trish Barillas:
There was my grandma's house and my aunt and her children lived there. Well, 1, 2, 3 aunts and their kids live there. All my uncles lived there. Everybody was there.
Charlie Sandlan:
So raising each child, everybody was responsible for them?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah, everybody pitches in. There's never a moment where you're like, "Oh, we need a sitter." That's what the family was for.
Charlie Sandlan:
Right. Where you don't have that here?
Trish Barillas:
No. We have a doorman that can take our packages. That's about it.
Charlie Sandlan:
All right. So you're in a good place with it?
Trish Barillas:
Yes, I'm in a very good place with it.
Charlie Sandlan:
Do you coach women that are struggling with this issue? Children? No children?
Trish Barillas:
Actually, I have not. And it's because it's not something I've ever really talked about or something that I broadcast. But if it's something that they needed to be coached through, sure. But again, coaching is about making your own choices and making sure that they're clear and concise. So my job is to hold space and to get them clear on what they want.
Charlie Sandlan:
How is premenopause going for you?
Trish Barillas:
I feel like I've been in premenopause for 10 years.
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh God. Well, so yeah, you're right up on it.
Trish Barillas:
But listen, I have brutal periods. I've always had them.
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh, brutal.
Trish Barillas:
I'm struggling right now. I'm in sweatpants. I have a hot bottle in my bed. This has never been easy, ever.
Charlie Sandlan:
Your cycle?
Trish Barillas:
No, it has always been rough. And I've been having hot flashes at night for the past 10 years.
Charlie Sandlan:
The temperature in this fucking apartment, it's a yo-yo. I can't get any consistency. It's like an oven in here. You turn the heat on, the heat's off, you open the windows. You have 10 blankets on the bed. You've got no blankets on the bed. You go to bed in sweats. You wake up naked because you're just dying in the middle of the night. You're all over the place.
Trish Barillas:
Yeah. But this isn't new news. So I'm worried if it's not premenopause, and then I get into menopause, is my skin going to be on fire? I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen.
Charlie Sandlan:
So the only thing that's happening right now, it's your body temperature fluctuating?
Trish Barillas:
Body temperature fluctuating, lots of nausea. But then again, I've had that forever. So who knows? My mom said she got it in her '40s. So yeah, just waiting.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah. I'm waiting with you. Exciting. I can't hold my glasses on. Are you looking at me lovingly or are you giving me a scorn.
Trish Barillas:
No, just giving you a little mi-mi.
Charlie Sandlan:
A what?
Trish Barillas:
A mi-mi.
Charlie Sandlan:
What is that?
Trish Barillas:
It's like a scrunchy face.
Charlie Sandlan:
Okay. So it's a cute thing you're doing.
Trish Barillas:
It's a cute thing.
Charlie Sandlan:
You're being cutesy.
Trish Barillas:
I don't know about cutesy.
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh. Let's talk about some art, because-
Trish Barillas:
Art?
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, I think one of the-
Trish Barillas:
Hold on. Anxiety, freezing eggs, leaving eggs. "Let's talk about some art."
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, is there anything else you'd like to-
Trish Barillas:
Let's talk about the Super Bowl. I mean, what are you talking?
Charlie Sandlan:
I'll talk about the fucking Super Bowl. That was one of the greatest things that happened in my life.
Trish Barillas:
No, this is about-
Charlie Sandlan:
February of '22. Cincinnati Bengals going to the Super Bowl. They lost, but it didn't matter. It was the greatest six weeks of my life.
Trish Barillas:
This isn't about you, babe. Refocus.
Charlie Sandlan:
You just brought it up.
Trish Barillas:
As a joke. Refocus.
Charlie Sandlan:
I am a very big sports fan. And you couldn't care less about sports.
Trish Barillas:
I like tennis and soccer.
Charlie Sandlan:
My whole life. I thought, "Oh, I'm going to end up with somebody who loves sports 'cause I love sports," and I don't understand how I ended up with somebody who really couldn't care less.
Trish Barillas:
About American sports?
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, yeah, American sports. What other sports are there? Okay, soccer.
Trish Barillas:
I like tennis. I love tennis.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah, but you're not a sports fan at all.
Trish Barillas:
No, I'm not. But I love the arts.
Charlie Sandlan:
I would love to get you wearing a little sexy cutoff Bengals top and some-
Trish Barillas:
That's disgusting.
Charlie Sandlan:
Why? Oh my God. Do you know how sexy that is?
Trish Barillas:
To a frat boy?
Charlie Sandlan:
Any man who was a sports fan would love to have his baby-
Trish Barillas:
His baby?
Charlie Sandlan:
Walking around the apartment in a pair of little tight cutoff team sports-
Trish Barillas:
You sound like such a douche bag right now.
Charlie Sandlan:
A jersey.
Trish Barillas:
You're such... You are-
Charlie Sandlan:
Why is that a... That is not a douchey-
Trish Barillas:
"Well, I want my girl walking around in-"
Charlie Sandlan:
My baby. I want my baby in a Joe Burrow jersey.
Trish Barillas:
I'm good, thanks.
Charlie Sandlan:
What if I just buy some stuff for you?
Trish Barillas:
Then you could pick it up out of the trash. I'll never wear it.
Charlie Sandlan:
But why not?
Trish Barillas:
Because that's not me. I don't want it. I'm not a poser. I'm not going to pretend to-
Charlie Sandlan:
A poser?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah.
Charlie Sandlan:
We're talking about you're at home. You're doing something nice for your man.
Trish Barillas:
I'm good. Thanks. Sorry. Did you forget who you married?
Charlie Sandlan:
No. No. I have not.
Trish Barillas:
Good.
Charlie Sandlan:
I have not.
Trish Barillas:
So where were we going with the arts thing?
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, before we get into some reviews, I'm going to ask you your-
Trish Barillas:
Reviews?
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah. I'm going to ask your opinions on some things that we've seen.
Trish Barillas:
Oh, okay. This is fun.
Charlie Sandlan:
But is there anything else that you want to talk about? Because you're not going to be on here for another year, so this is it. You better get it all out because you know you're not going to be on again for a year.
Trish Barillas:
No, we covered everything that I think is important. Yeah.
Charlie Sandlan:
Okay. So I think one of the benefits of being with me, if I may.
Trish Barillas:
Oh geez. Please.
Charlie Sandlan:
Is that I am taking you to the theater. And when you're not watching garbage, trash reality television, we watch some quality programming together.
Trish Barillas:
Well, depends on how you define quality.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, let's talk about some things.
Trish Barillas:
Because you've brought me to some fucked up shit.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, you think it's fucked up because you have anxiety. And so you watch something and it's maybe dark.
Trish Barillas:
Aggressive and dark and...
Charlie Sandlan:
Let's talk about some of the things we've seen. Okay. Now, we both went to Death of a Salesman on Broadway. I left a very negative review on Instagram.
Trish Barillas:
Yes. I videoed it. Yes.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah, you did video it. And it was starring Wendell Pierce. It was an all African American cast. So that's the first time that this seminal piece of work was done with an African American cast, which I think is excellent and very worthy and long overdue. As someone who's not... You're certainly not an acting teacher. You really aren't in the world of that at all, you just go with me as someone who appreciates just going to the theater. What'd you think of it, Death of a Salesman?
Trish Barillas:
I didn't enjoy it.
Charlie Sandlan:
Why not?
Trish Barillas:
It felt pushed. It felt-
Charlie Sandlan:
You're talking about the acting felt pushed?
Trish Barillas:
The acting felt pushed. And I don't know anything about acting. I just couldn't believe it. It wasn't believable.
Charlie Sandlan:
It wasn't believable to you. To the average lay goer 'cause I just... The average theater goer was what you are. And you know nothing about acting, you're just going to the theater. You're saying to yourself, "I didn't believe it. It seemed pushed." Anything else?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah, that was just my take of it. And-
Charlie Sandlan:
Why didn't you believe it?
Trish Barillas:
I didn't believe in the acting. I wasn't drawn in. I wasn't-
Charlie Sandlan:
You weren't experiencing anything?
Trish Barillas:
No.
Charlie Sandlan:
Correct.
Trish Barillas:
I wasn't experiencing anything. And if it was something I was watching on TV, I probably would've changed the channel in 10 minutes.
Charlie Sandlan:
Correct. And I will say Wendell Pierce is an excellent actor. But see, Wendell Pierce, his chops are on television, and that's very close to the vest. It's edited, it looks great. But then you get on stage and you have to take on a major, major, major part, like Willy Loman. Yes, it was not believable. And I would translate that in acting terms, is that they were indicating. There wasn't anything genuinely going on, there was no real human experience going on in that stage. And that's why you didn't feel anything. Nobody in that audience feels anything.
Trish Barillas:
No. I was fine leaving.
Charlie Sandlan:
But yet everybody laughs. Everybody was laughing and clapping. And that's what makes me sick, is I'm sitting here watching something really, really fucking bad. And everybody in the audience is laughing and clapping and thinks it's just fucking great. It's garbage.
Trish Barillas:
Well to you, someone who's trained, I can understand that.
Charlie Sandlan:
Correct. Now, we also went and saw, let's cover theater here, we went and saw The Piano Lesson with Samuel L. Jackson and Denzel Washington's son, I forget his first name. What did you think about that? Great August Wilson play, a part of his 10-play cycle. You loved it.
Trish Barillas:
I loved it.
Charlie Sandlan:
Now, why did you love that?
Trish Barillas:
I was captivated. I bought it. I believed. I believed in it.
Charlie Sandlan:
You believed in the acting?
Trish Barillas:
Yes. And-
Charlie Sandlan:
It seemed truthful to you?
Trish Barillas:
Very truthful. I loved all of the singing. That really drew me in.
Charlie Sandlan:
That huge number there in the middle of the play, where they all just get up in they're stamping on the floor and banging the table.
Trish Barillas:
But it was in my soul. I was like, "Yeah, man. Okay. We're in it." I did, I really enjoyed it.
Charlie Sandlan:
Excellent. And then we also saw Top Dog/Underdog, the Pulitzer Prize winning play by Suzan-Lori Parks starring Corey Hawkins and Yahya Abdul-Mateen II. What did you think about that?
Trish Barillas:
Loved it. Really fucking good. Again, I was overcome by the acting. I was in it.
Charlie Sandlan:
All right. So somebody who just is going to the theater, why were you overcome by the acting? What does that mean?
Trish Barillas:
It means that I'm present. I'm 100% present and I'm with you. I'm on this journey, I'm with you-
Charlie Sandlan:
But can you say why? You are on that? Why is that?
Trish Barillas:
There's an energy that's happening. There's an energy that the actors or actor is giving that I am picking up and I'm attaching to. It's the same as what makes you involved in a book, or what makes you gravitate to really be present with something. It grabs your interest. And that's what happened, it really grabbed me and I stuck with it.
Charlie Sandlan:
I thought it was one of the best things I've seen in a long time. Years. Years. I'd put it in the top 10 of the best theater I've seen in my lifetime.
Trish Barillas:
I thought it was excellent. Yeah. It was excellent.
Charlie Sandlan:
Corey Hawkins, who played Lincoln, that's transformational acting. That's character acting at it's finest.
Trish Barillas:
And what's interesting is I expect him, that character, if I saw him on the street, I would expect him to beat the character because it was that believable, that I can't see him as any other way.
Charlie Sandlan:
And even Yahya, who played Booth, was excellent. And it's just a seminal piece of work. It's often considered one of the one or two best players written in the last 30 years.
Trish Barillas:
Well, I was very, very happy to have seen it.
Charlie Sandlan:
You're welcome. All right. So that was some theater. We are going to go see Jessica Chastain in April in A Doll's House.
Trish Barillas:
Yes, we are. April 1st.
Charlie Sandlan:
I'm very excited about that because I think she's also an excellent transformational character actor. Let's talk about some movies, shall we? Now, why do you do that? Why do you roll your eyes? Like, "Oh God, we got to talk about movies, really?"?
Trish Barillas:
Because you and I do not agree on what we like. So your movies are different than my movies.
Charlie Sandlan:
Okay. The movies I'm going to talk about are actually pieces of art. The, I'm not going to talk about the garbage, the rom-coms and the stupid shit that you watch. We're not going to talk about that.
Trish Barillas:
Okay. But you call it stupid shit, but you know what? It gets people through a lot of things.
Charlie Sandlan:
That's fine. But, really?
Trish Barillas:
Okay, Master Teacher, let's talk about the movies you like.
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh, see, that's unnecessary. But I am going to, how about The Fabelmans?Steven Spielberg's-
Trish Barillas:
Oh, I loved it. I loved it, loved it, loved it. And I loved it because it is based off of his life.
Charlie Sandlan:
Absolutely. It's very autobiographical.
Trish Barillas:
But I don't watch a lot of his famous whatever.
Charlie Sandlan:
Not famous whatever. It's his oeuvre, if you will.
Trish Barillas:
Okay, oeuvre. So I didn't pick up on those because I don't watch them.
Charlie Sandlan:
You never watched Jaws, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Poltergeist, Close Encounter of the Third Kind, Saving Private Ryan?
Trish Barillas:
No, I've watched probably half of them. But I loved it. I felt like it was... Ah, yeah, it was-
Charlie Sandlan:
But now listen, I'll tell you, this is what's surprising to me, because we can talk about this for a second. You have some sort of issue with period films, period pieces.
Trish Barillas:
It's not an issue for-
Charlie Sandlan:
And that's a period piece.
Trish Barillas:
No, it's different.
Charlie Sandlan:
Listen, you can't watch half the shit that I want to watch because it's a period piece. It makes no sense to me. Just get comfortable. Get comfortable. Let's talk about the fact that The Fabelmans was a period piece, and you can't watch period pieces. Can you explain to me why you have an issue watching anything that doesn't happen in contemporary times?
Trish Barillas:
I am unable to pinpoint why that is a thing. My body has a specific reaction. Don't roll your eyes at me. That is a real reaction that my body and brain has. I don't know why. I have no clue. All I know is that I have a reaction to it.
Charlie Sandlan:
But yet, the Fabelmans takes place in the '60s.
Trish Barillas:
It was light though. It was very lighthearted. There was something different about it.
Charlie Sandlan:
How about Michelle Williams?
Trish Barillas:
Oh, she's amazing.
Charlie Sandlan:
Isn't she great?
Trish Barillas:
Great.
Charlie Sandlan:
I think it's the best thing she's ever done. She was so ethereal, she was such an artist. Some of the moments that she had were just fantastic.
Trish Barillas:
Fantastic movie. Really loved it.
Charlie Sandlan:
How about, we watched Causeway with Jennifer Lawrence.
Trish Barillas:
Jennifer Lawrence. I liked it. I wouldn't say I loved it.
Charlie Sandlan:
It was okay?
Trish Barillas:
It was okay.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah. Why was it okay?
Trish Barillas:
There was a lot of family dynamics going on, and it's about a relationship between two people who are struggling with past trauma. I personally couldn't relate to it, but I think many people can. So that's why I think it was just, okay.
Charlie Sandlan:
Let's talk about Evan Peters in Dahmer.
Trish Barillas:
Oh no. Geez. I don't know why I keep doing this to myself. I say I can't watch any more of it, and then I watch more of it.
Charlie Sandlan:
Absolutely. Because he's fucking great.
Trish Barillas:
I can't see him in real life. He would freak the fuck out of me.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, what's your opinion of it?
Trish Barillas:
It's fantastic.
Charlie Sandlan:
Why is it fantastic for you?
Trish Barillas:
Because he embodies the character. Like I said, if I saw him on the street, he would scare me because he's so in character. And I believe that he is Dahmer.
Charlie Sandlan:
And then you put that up against what he did in Mare of Easttown, and you're just like, "Wow."
Trish Barillas:
Didn't you say he had the best drunk performance that you've seen?
Charlie Sandlan:
It's the best drunk I've ever seen in my life. Hands down. And I know I'm not alone in that opinion.
Trish Barillas:
And I remember you saying that.
Charlie Sandlan:
Absolutely. I've talked about it many times on this podcast. I about it in my class all the time.
Trish Barillas:
But listen, I'll still keep watching Dahmer, even though it's very triggering and I have to watch a rom-com after.
Charlie Sandlan:
That's true. How about the Triangle of Sadness?
Trish Barillas:
Oh, that was so weird. I didn't like it at all.
Charlie Sandlan:
It gets attacked by terrorists.
Trish Barillas:
See, but I'm not into that-
Charlie Sandlan:
It's satire, which you can't appreciate.
Trish Barillas:
Yeah. It doesn't work for me. It doesn't work for my personality. And that's okay.
Charlie Sandlan:
I didn't say it wasn't okay.
Trish Barillas:
Okay. All right.
Charlie Sandlan:
What else did have we watched lately? Anything else that sticks out to you?
Trish Barillas:
Oh, we watched, well, we watched that Christmas movie with Nikki.
Charlie Sandlan:
A Christmas movie?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah. Oh, that was over Thanksgiving.
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh, that was garbage. Didn't we try to watch five minutes of this Lindsay Lohan movie?
Trish Barillas:
Oh no. I was not about that.
Charlie Sandlan:
And I even subjected myself. I said, "Okay, fine." Because you guys wanted to watch it. You guys couldn't even get through-
Trish Barillas:
Don't throw me in that mix.
Charlie Sandlan:
You couldn't even get through the first five minutes of that horrific piece of shit.
Trish Barillas:
No. Yeah.
Charlie Sandlan:
At least there's some semblance of taste that you have.
Trish Barillas:
Okay.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, I come home every night and it is just...
Trish Barillas:
I don't know why we keep... It's like a broken record.
Charlie Sandlan:
It's just always on. It's just reality television.
Trish Barillas:
I like reality TV.
Charlie Sandlan:
Why? You're obsessed.
Trish Barillas:
And there's nothing wrong with it.
Charlie Sandlan:
You don't just like.
Trish Barillas:
I like it. I like it a lot.
Charlie Sandlan:
You're obsessed with it.
Trish Barillas:
Okay. So you like football. I like reality TV.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah. But it's just so-
Trish Barillas:
You don't see me wearing jerseys of their names.
Charlie Sandlan:
And now, one of your friends is a housewife.
Trish Barillas:
Whoo, shout out to Ubah. Woo-woo.
Charlie Sandlan:
Shout out Ubah, who-
Trish Barillas:
New York City Housewives.
Charlie Sandlan:
Is it aired? Has her season, has it started or no?
Trish Barillas:
No, they haven't aired yet.
Charlie Sandlan:
They haven't even aired yet. What's her last name? Ubah what?
Trish Barillas:
Hassan.
Charlie Sandlan:
Ubah Hassan, one of your good friends is going to be a New York City Housewife?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah.
Charlie Sandlan:
Jesus. Now I'm one degree removed.
Trish Barillas:
Welcome to the pack.
Charlie Sandlan:
From just cultural wasteland. It's true.
Trish Barillas:
In your opinion.
Charlie Sandlan:
All right. We're running long on time here. Is there anything you'd like to talk about? Anything you'd like to ask me?
Trish Barillas:
No, I'm good.
Charlie Sandlan:
Hey listen, what did you think of our first Christmas party at the studio?
Trish Barillas:
Oh, I thought it was great.
Charlie Sandlan:
Wasn't it a good time?
Trish Barillas:
Yeah, it was a good time. It was fun. My friends had a great time.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah, your friends came. The first Christmas party at the studio in three years.
Trish Barillas:
I love it. And it's just going to get better and better.
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah, that's true. I thought you said you were going to ask me questions. Do you have nothing?
Trish Barillas:
I think this really went too long.
Charlie Sandlan:
It's not too long. Listen, it's my show. It could be as long as I want it to be. If I want it to be an hour and a half or an hour 45, or if I want it to be 30.
Trish Barillas:
Okay. Well, I've got nothing to ask you, babe.
Charlie Sandlan:
I cannot believe that. You're unprepared.
Trish Barillas:
This was about me. You were asking me questions about things that I've gone through over the past year, and yet we've talked about football and we've talked about art and we've talked about... So, no, I think we're good. I think we're good.
Charlie Sandlan:
But see, I hear the tone in your voice and it's flippant.
Trish Barillas:
How is that different than any other day?
Charlie Sandlan:
It's not. That's why I know it so well. Okay. Let me see.
Trish Barillas:
So you see, but you can burp. Burp into the mic.
Charlie Sandlan:
No, I just exhaled. God, this is unbelievable. I'm glad we only do this once a year. Let me ask you this, as we start to wrap things up here, what's your view on marriage after almost three years?
Trish Barillas:
It's work.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, yeah.
Trish Barillas:
Yeah. It's work. Relationships are all work and you have to accept the person that you chose, and they're not going to change. Listen, you stated earlier you wish that you had been with someone who was a sports fan. Right?
Charlie Sandlan:
Yeah.
Trish Barillas:
I wish I was with someone who was handy.
Charlie Sandlan:
Oh my God. What do you mean? So I can put brake pads on the car and fix the toilets?
Trish Barillas:
Yes. And you know-
Charlie Sandlan:
You wish you had married a handyman?
Trish Barillas:
Well, my dad's handy. I'm always learning from him.
Charlie Sandlan:
Listen, you went the artist roots. What can I tell you?
Trish Barillas:
It's just surprising still.
Charlie Sandlan:
I can change oil. I could change the oil in your car.
Trish Barillas:
No, you can't.
Charlie Sandlan:
Are you kidding me? I know how to change oil. That's the bare minimum.
Trish Barillas:
Okay, but you have to jack up the car. How do you do that.
Charlie Sandlan:
I could also change a flat tire.
Trish Barillas:
Well, I would hope so.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, you just jack it up and take off the bolts. Okay. I think we've run our course.
Trish Barillas:
Yeah, we've run our course. We're good. I also hungry.
Charlie Sandlan:
Okay. I'll see. All right. So before we go, I'm going to start fading the music up here, as I always do. If you listen to my show, you would know that. Don't you feel bad that you really don't listen, you just really couldn't care less? This is the 77th episode. This is 77.
Trish Barillas:
Yes, I know it's the 77th. And I commend you on your commitment of starting this in a windowless, airless box in Guat.
Charlie Sandlan:
That is where it all began, in your mother's bodega, up top. All right. So we're going to fade it up here. Why don't you just give us some things that you'd like people to think about or some... We're in January, which always seems like a good time to recalibrate and reassess. What's your advice if you were talking to a client about how to look at a new year?
Trish Barillas:
Well, I always say to try to really capture what you desire. It's not about all of the to-dos, like must do, must have, blah, blah, blah. But what do you want? What makes you happy? How are you hitting your joy buckets every day or every week? Are you moving your body? Are you helping your stress levels and mental health? Are you connecting with people in your life? Are you asking for help when you need it? Are you having real conversations with yourself about what your reality looks like? What you want your life to look like? These are all important questions. And are you spending enough time alone? Are you able to spend time alone? Are you able to be with your thoughts? That is something that I think is really important that people don't do enough of. And it's okay if you don't have everything that you want because you're not supposed to. You're just not. We're always supposed to work towards something, that's the beauty, I think, of life. If you have it all, it's probably fucking boring.
Charlie Sandlan:
I love you, babe. Thanks for doing this.
Trish Barillas:
Love you, poops.
Charlie Sandlan:
Well, my fellow daydreamers, thank you for sticking around and keeping your phone in your pocket. Please, if you are looking for some help with your anxiety, relationships, your career, go to https://www.trishbarillas.com and check her out. You can subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. Go to https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com Go to their contact page, hit that red button. I use SpeakPipe. You can share with me some of your thoughts, ask some questions. I'd love to hear what you have to say. You can go to https://www.maggieflaniganstudio.com if you are interested in training with me in my New York City studio. You can follow me on Instagram @maggieflaniganstudio, @creatingbehavior. Lawrence Trailer, thank you for the music, my man. My friends, please stay resilient, play full out with yourself, and don't ever settle for your second best. My name is Charlie Sandlan. Peace.