081 Are You Up for This Life?

There's a lot to learn about sustaining a professional artistic career, beyond the training. This week Charlie talks with his former student Kris Sidberry, who has been carving out a serious career for over a decade. Kris shares the mistakes, the lessons learned, and the need to accept that your career will most likely not go the way you had imagined. Join Charlie and Kris for a deep dive into the ups and downs of navigating a creative life.   You can follow CBP on Instagram @creatingbehavior, and Charlie's NYC acting conservatory, the Maggie Flanigan Studio @maggieflaniganstudio. Theme music by  https://www.thelawrencetrailer.com. For written transcripts, to leave a voicemail on SpeakPipe, or contact Charlie for private coaching, check out https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com

Transcript

Charlie Sandlan (00:03):

At some point, the idea of what you think an acting life is -- the dream, the fantasy that's wrapped up in your love of acting, the art of it -- eventually is going to come crashing right into the reality of what it means to sustain and carve out a professional acting career. And there's a hell of a lot that you've got to learn after you train if you want to make it.

(00:31):

We're going to talk to one of my former students today, Kris Sidberry, who has been learning on the job, if you will. She got out of the Maggie Flanigan Studio in 2016, but way before that she was getting her master's at Harvard. She entered grad school for a hot second in acting. She's been carving out a career in voiceover, theater, film, television. She's made mistakes. She's learned a lot, and we're going to talk about all of that, navigating tragedy while also pursuing a career, and what it was like to book your big film role and have the most important scene you shot cut and put on the editing floor. Unbelievable. Put the phone back in your pocket. Creating Behavior starts now.

(01:47):

Well, hello, my fellow Daydreamers. So are you up for this life? Yeah? This is what we're talking about today, and I think it's a very good question to pose to you. Are you really up for it? And like I said in the open, this idea sometimes of what it means to be an actor smashes right up against the reality of the business side of it, the business side. You've got to navigate the rejection. You've got to navigate the insecurity. You've got to navigate being able to pay your bills and survive, and that's all part of an actor's life.

(02:32):

But then there's the business side. Fighting for yourself, advocating for yourself, especially before you have representation. Understanding contracts, understanding how to negotiate for yourself, what to ask for, what to fight for, what to not tolerate, what to accept. The importance of being nice, of forming relationships. The importance of not gossiping. All of these things. Most people learn the hard way by fucking up, pissing people off, damaging your reputation, all that sort of thing.

(03:11):

We're going to talk about this today with Kris, who I'm just so happy to finally get on the show, because she's a prime example of what a professional life can look like. She's been at this now, I mean, we're talking well over 15 years from the time she first entered ART up in Cambridge and ended up leaving grad school for acting, getting then her master's at Harvard. We're going to talk about how that transpired. The importance of doing everything and anything, right?

(03:57):

I never understood actors, especially when they come and sit in my office for an interview, and they just talk about film and television. "Well, yeah, that's what I want to do. I want to train for film. I want to be ..." Because unconsciously, or consciously even, they want to be famous. They have this idea that "I want to be a movie star." And I'm not really interested in working with those people. They don't get into my classroom.

(04:25):

I think if you're serious, you're going to do everything. You just want to act. And sure, does theater pay the same as film and television? No. But I think if you're a real serious actor, you want to work. And the truth is, when you put yourself out there for everything, whether it's film work, television, theater, voiceovers -- which Kris has started to carve a career out for herself -- those things lead to other things, because you are making relationships. That theater director or that playwright whose new show you just workshopped for two weeks is all of a sudden in the writer's room of an HBO show, and they have you in mind for something. You just never know how things play out, and I think a big through line in this conversation has a lot to do with relationships.

(05:17):

One thing that she said that was interesting, and she'll discuss this, most of the work she's gotten professionally has come from people she's known, other actors that have recommended her or other people that she's worked with that have thrown her name into the hat for something. That's what's got her the opportunity far more than anything that her representation has gotten for her, and I think that's a very important thing to realize.

(05:43):

So we've got a lot to talk about. She also just lost her father recently. She's in it when it comes to tragedy and those life-altering experiences. I know of what she speaks. My father died in 2010. When you lose that first parent, it can throw you for a tailspin. So we're going to talk about that as well and what it was like to book a really nice role in the Whitney Houston biopic, I Wanna Dance with Somebody, a really great emotional scene at the end, only to find out that the majority of your performance has been cut. It happens. Talk about a punch to the gut. We're going to talk about that.

(06:32):

So let's just get to it, shall we? At the top, we are talking about her work on the film Detroit, this really great Kathryn Bigelow film back from I think 2017. Anthony Mackie, John Boyega, highly recommend it. It has to do with the 1967 riots in Detroit and the confrontation between a group of young Black men and some Detroit police officers. Anyway, she has this really emotional scene where for the first time she had to use emotional preparation, because it was a very big emotional scene. And hey, you're also working with an Academy Award-winning director, Kathryn Bigelow. And this is where we started our conversation. Here is Kris Sidberry.

Kris Sidberry (07:23):

It was a phone call to my husband that my son had been killed by the police, and sitting in the room, and then I just-

Charlie Sandlan (07:29):

Well, yeah, you need a preparation for that.

Kris Sidberry (07:31):

Huge, yeah. Doing all my work, because I just got out of school, so excited to use it. And the first AD comes in and was like, "This is the very emotional set," and made everyone leave the set and be in the back, because it was in a house and it was just me, Kathryn Bigelow and the first AD. And she was like, "However many takes you need." I just remember being in my head and being like, "If you knew me, it's only going to take me maybe two, because I can cry like that." I can get there like that, but it was just so nice. I think if every director understood, if you give me the permission to not be stressed out, because I've been in other situations where they were like, "We have to get this in the first take."

Charlie Sandlan (08:15):

So what was it like to really apply what you had learned? Because a lot of material, you don't really need a big emotional preparation. It doesn't require that, but then you get something like that.

Kris Sidberry (08:29):

Yeah. It's so nice to know. I mean, I have my BFA. I have other training. But I will say what Maggie gave me is consistency. Now, I know I have a tool automatically where I can do it. I have my trigger songs that I can use and immediately get to a place, which just peace and freedom. And I think those are the two things. If you have peace and freedom and confidence, you can kind of do anything. It was just so nice to be able to ... Because that's a lot of pressure, right? Academy Award-winning director.

(09:05):

I think before I could have froze, but I just knew I could do it. And really great to have the opportunity to be like, "Oh, it was worth it." All that time and training was worth it. I don't know about fortunately unfortunately, but now I've kind of gotten a rep for being the actress that can do that. So I get called in often for knowing that I can cry on cue. Whitney, it got cut out, but the end of Whitney was supposed to be me calling all of the family, and we shot it.

Charlie Sandlan (09:39):

Yeah. The last time I saw you, you were in New York for the premier of I Wanna Dance with Somebody, and you played Pat Houston.

Kris Sidberry (09:50):

Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sandlan (09:51):

I was wondering how you felt about that, because I know you had talked about that scene. You'd shot it, and it was emotional, and it was a good scene for you. And then you go. Did you know that scene was not in the movie when you went to the premiere?

Kris Sidberry (10:05):

Kind of. Well, we had to do reshoots that summer. The costume team has to watch what the cut is in order to pull the pieces in case we're reshooting those scenes, so I kind of knew. But me and Naomi sat down, and because she was a lead on the show, she also kind of got a producer cred. So she knew, and she was like, "I'm trying to fight to get that put back in." They wanted the movie to end on a high note. Whatever. I don't know who's going to listen to this, but-

Charlie Sandlan (10:36):

I mean, I get it. They did the medley at the ends, but you miss out on the juicier stuff there.

Kris Sidberry (10:43):

Exactly. We tried to fight to get that put back in. So yeah, it was just hard, because that was my big scene. It was shitty. Now, I've been cut out. You just have to go into something being like the work is on the day, and everything else that comes after is just icing on the cake because there's no guarantee.

Charlie Sandlan (11:09):

Yeah. I mean, it's a tough thing. You book the job. You shoot the material, and you know that this is good stuff.

Kris Sidberry (11:17):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (11:18):

And you're thinking to yourself, and you start fantasizing, "Oh, I can't wait. This is going to be in the movie." I mean, even then, even then you're not guaranteed.

Kris Sidberry (11:27):

They had a whole storyline with Eddie Murphy in that movie, and that actor was a fairly big name actor. The Last Black Man in San Francisco, the guy that wrote it. And they cut it out, full storyline.

Charlie Sandlan (11:42):

The whole storyline.

Kris Sidberry (11:43):

I don't know if Eddie got wind of it and was like, "I don't want to be involved in this," or what. I had some friends that were shot every single week, came to the premiere thinking they're going to be in the movie, and they were reduced to background. People talk about the rejection of auditioning. And now, for me, there's no rejection there. We're sending tapes out into the nebulous. That's rejection. You know it's not personal.

Charlie Sandlan (12:10):

Absolutely.

Kris Sidberry (12:11):

They have to shoot more than what they're going to use, but that's hard. It's hard.

Charlie Sandlan (12:16):

Well, the one thing that I didn't like about it is they never really explained who you were. I mean, you just appeared. You're on the boat. You're coming off the plane. You got those two quick scenes, but they didn't really show us what your impact, Pat's impact on her life and what you were responsible for. So how many seed got put on the floor?

Kris Sidberry (12:40):

Maybe four.

Charlie Sandlan (12:41):

Dang.

Kris Sidberry (12:42):

A lot of them were in there, but they were reduced. They knew. They brought me, they flew me to LA for reshoots specifically for that reason, and still didn't accomplish it.

(12:55):

And I will say yet, caveat sidebar, how they're talking about using the actors with the AI stuff. So the day on the boat they had this ... I mean, it was the wildest thing I'd ever seen. It's this tube that has hundreds of cameras in it, and they load you into the tube. So the AI took my image, and then they were like, "Oh, yeah. Well, it's going to be for on the boat scene when they do the wide shot to pull away." And I remember then being like, "That didn't make any sense. Why would they need to ... We're on cranes. There doesn't need to be ..." And now I realize Sony has my full AI image that I signed away, and now knowing what they're using that stuff for.

Charlie Sandlan (13:49):

So they can use it for anything.

Kris Sidberry (13:51):

Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sandlan (13:52):

See, this is the shit that people have to understand, actors right now, the importance of the strike, and what's at stake.

Kris Sidberry (13:58):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (14:01):

What did you learn from being on a set like that?

Kris Sidberry (14:04):

Learning how to fight. I had to fight for a lot of money on that movie. Learning so much about the backend of things and how they will get you.

Charlie Sandlan (14:14):

Protecting yourself.

Kris Sidberry (14:15):

Yeah. So a big, big lesson is how actually important rep is. I have been working so long in that smaller market. I have a modeling agent, but that modeling agent is not really an agent, and this was probably their first time having to negotiate a really big contract. And so the Whitney project had a completely different director and entire different creative team. Three weeks before shooting, they had to shut everything down because the director decided to bounce, so they had to get a new director and a completely new creative team. And so when we did start production, everything was a shit show, because that pushed the schedule.

(14:55):

SAG contract, you can only drop an actor once. So say if I work October to November, they don't need me. They can drop me. And then once they pick me back up, they can never drop me again, right? They made the mistake of dropping me for two weeks, not realizing I had a seven-week break later on, so then they had to back pay me all those seven weeks because the line producer messed up. And learning all those contract-

Charlie Sandlan (15:27):

Now, did you have to fight for that? Did you have to really do-

Kris Sidberry (15:29):

I had to get the union involved. It's like the payroll person. My first real hard look was like, "Kris, it doesn't matter. Even if you're number one on the call sheet, if you don't have a good team, you're going to get got." It's money. It's business. The video game does not get any easier when it comes to you and the money people, and that's what we're fighting.

Charlie Sandlan (15:49):

Because it does come down to money. I mean, they are trying to save a dime any way they can. And if they can fuck you, they'll fuck you unless you know what your rights are.

Kris Sidberry (15:59):

And most actors are like, "I'm so grateful just to be working." I'm like, "Yeah, you can't." You kind of can't be that way. It's show business, not show art if you want to be on that level of the video game. You have to know how to play it. There are times that I'm like, "I don't know if I want to do that," because it is really hard to show up to set while also just having the fight with emails about paying me.

(16:26):

I've had to really do this mostly on my own without an agent. Yeah, so it's just been like a learning that your rep is a lot. And that was my first time like, "Oh, if I had representation, my rep would be handling this call. I wouldn't be handling this call in the car." That was my first time I'd be like, "Okay, now I have to get rep." Then that has been a slow climb of finding good rep, because a lot of people that call themselves agents that really still don't negotiate contracts very well.

(16:58):

It's been a learning process, and that's like that. And unfortunately, the time that we were going to school, the business side of anything was not taught. So I'm learning.

Charlie Sandlan (17:11):

No, it's not taught.

Kris Sidberry (17:12):

There's so many business things that now I really wish schools focused more on that component.

Charlie Sandlan (17:21):

Well, we have a full-year business program now.

Kris Sidberry (17:24):

Which is amazing.

Charlie Sandlan (17:26):

I mean, we cover a lot. But if you looking back could say, "I wish I had known this coming out of school. I wish someone had taught me this or had said X about what to expect in the business." Because it takes an actor, what? It's seven years now, and you're still learning the business, trying to figure shit out on the business side.

Kris Sidberry (17:50):

Yes. Oh, gosh. That's really hard, because sometimes-

Charlie Sandlan (17:51):

I would think union contracts ...

Kris Sidberry (17:54):

Well, that. Learning, really taking that seriously. I just didn't take seriously in some regards, like my health and pension. I qualified for my health a long time ago and didn't even worry about it, or not understanding how important that was.

(18:12):

Tracking, track your money. You have to track your money. The union does the best they can. I just did an HBO show. Had to file a claim, because they weren't paying residuals. They're all separate careers. Film and TV is separate, theater is separate, and it can be very hard to blend them. I now do a lot of voiceover. Completely separate career. And the time to do all three.

(18:36):

But this is hard, because the game has changed from even just seven years ago with all of this and how it works. I wish someone would've ... Because I sing, but I never took it seriously, or I thought like, "I'm not a musical theater actor." Why did no one say, "Hey, Kris. Did you know that 90% of equity contracts are musicals? So if you want to work on stage all the time in New York City, you probably should take that part of your training a bit more seriously."

Charlie Sandlan (19:06):

Well, you don't think about that. I mean, it's, "I'm not a musical theater actor. I want to do legit theater." And all of a sudden, all this shit comes your way or the possibilities are there, and you're like, "Wow. Well, fuck, I haven't worked on this at all."

Kris Sidberry (19:20):

Hamilton was doing one of their first rounds of the tour, and they reached out to me to audition. I had a breakdown with another actor who's a big musical theater actor. I was like, "I can't. I don't have a book. I don't have anything aligned in order to make this audition work."

(19:38):

Yeah, there was another lesson. I didn't have a voice teacher aligned. Just have these people in your pocket. I didn't have anyone that could have done the accompaniment for me so that I could learn the music. If you think you can actually do something, and you do ... And I had it on my resume. I just did this Broadway workshop, singing. If you start the avenue, make sure to have all the parameters in place, because you're only going to get about 72 hours before you have to do it if they call you. And I didn't have it. I didn't have it in place.

(20:13):

Just so many things. Reading contracts. I mean, I could go on and on and on. But then also I'm like, "How would I have known to ask for that?"

Charlie Sandlan (20:22):

You don't know, right?

Kris Sidberry (20:23):

There's no way to know.

Charlie Sandlan (20:25):

No.

Kris Sidberry (20:27):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (20:28):

You learn by getting screwed over.

Kris Sidberry (20:30):

Yep.

Charlie Sandlan (20:32):

Each situation presents itself, and you're like, "Oh, I don't know anything about this."

Kris Sidberry (20:35):

Exactly.

Charlie Sandlan (20:36):

And most actors aren't even aware. You come out of school, and I think most actors are just, "I need an agent, and I need my head shots."

Kris Sidberry (20:45):

Yep, that's it. Yeah. Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (20:49):

Yeah. And, "I'm going to start auditioning. I'm going to go to the Actor's Green Room or Actors Connection and one-on-one, and get in front of casting directors, and I'm good to go. That's not the business.

Kris Sidberry (20:57):

That's not the business. Yeah. Oh, gosh. I now see, because I did that. I'm like, "Oh, I'm ready for an agent." And now I totally see why it took so long to get an agent. I was just not prepared. If I had booked a series rig magically, I definitely would have been fired. I now see that. I just wasn't prepared to play at that level. There's being a good artist, but being a good artist for film and TV is different. There's a factory level component that you've got to have to that game.

Charlie Sandlan (21:38):

Well, what do you mean by that? I mean, that's an interesting thing to say. You've got the experience to talk about this. What do you mean by that?

Kris Sidberry (21:46):

If you can't handle someone giving you a completely different scene as you're walking to set with different words and find ways to get that in your body and get it down, because that'll happen to you. My very first movie, I remember they handed me the lines as I was walking to set. It was a news reporter, and it was a chunk this big. You have to just be able to do it.

(22:10):

I've been on sets, and I've seen poor actors who had just gotten those lines. I mean, and it's just so many people in the room. You just have to be able to get it, and sometimes be able to get it over and over again. It's going to get boring, and you're going to have an actor on the opposite side of the camera that's an asshole, that may not even want to do the scene with you, so you got to work with a stand-in. And if you don't know how to not be thrown by stuff like that, or that you're trying to emotionally prepare and hair and makeup is in your face, and then they're trying to put a mic on you. Five people have just touched you while you're trying to prepare, and then you need to go. And if you can't handle that, all of those things that I think you don't think about.

Charlie Sandlan (22:56):

I heard you say before that when it comes to acting, it's going to go dark. Every actor, it's going to go dark at some point, and you've got to be ready to handle that. What's that mean for you? The periods of when it goes dark, and when has it gone dark, and what does that mean?

Kris Sidberry (23:19):

I'm now probably in my darkest period simply because I'm ... Going dark in New York was a little bit easier, because I was around community. I will say one of the things you talk about in class is knowing your values. Community is everything for me, and not having it here in Tennessee, other artists to talk ... I have a lot of friends in the music industry, because when I was in New York, I was in this Afro-Brazilian drumming group. I had other outlets for self-expression. We did that movement. There were some people from Maggie's, a group of women, that we created our own movement company that made it so that there was other outlets. I cannot say how you have to have that, and just having gone through tragedy.

(24:06):

I'm struggling pretty hard right now. I'm struggling now like, "I'm just quitting. I'm done." Which is ridiculous. I just had this huge movie. But I will say, I have had so many friends that are at this level. They're like, "You're going to go through that for the rest of your career. You're going to have to learn how to ride that 'I'm going to want to quit' part." And I'm still learning how to do it.

Charlie Sandlan (24:30):

I tell my students that life is never going to be convenient for you, and you're going to go through a lot of things. You're going to fall in love. You're going to get divorced. You're going to get married. You're going to bury your parents. You're going to go through tragedy, and your career is going to continue to roll along. And you are now in the midst of a tragedy, right?

Kris Sidberry (24:49):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (24:49):

You're dealing with the death of your father, trying to wrap your mind around that and navigate through the grief of that while still trying to function as a creative person.

Kris Sidberry (25:02):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (25:02):

So how has this life event changed you? How has it affected your career, your thoughts about the next year, next two years? I don't know. What's the death of your father done to you?

Kris Sidberry (25:23):

I do not have the capacity to sweat small things, really. That's probably the great byproduct. I used to mull. One little blip on my self tape, and I'd be like, "I have to redo it." Now, I don't care. It's fine. That's the best part.

(25:44):

It's hard. I'm trying not to get ... My dad was like my biggest champion in this. So to not have that person to call, that's very difficult. The Whitney movie was my first movie trailer. The trailer got leaked somehow. And so the publicists were getting all these emails from my rep, and the publicists like, "Everyone, prepare your social media. You have to drop it at this time, because we have to get it in before the leak gets out further so we can contain the publicity." And so I get that, and it was like my biggest high ever. I know I made it in some part of the movie. I'll never forget my dad's joy over that, and then he died 48 hours later.

(26:44):

So fast-forward about eight months, I was on Facebook. I'm on this little Nashville film Facebook group, and there was an audition for ... It was a movement audition. Normally, if my dad hadn't passed and I wasn't so starving for art, I'd have never auditioned for it. It was a small little thing, ended up being a student film. It ended up being the most wonderful experience. This kid's vision, insane. He somehow got Dolly Parton's DP, her personal DP to film it. So the footage is incredible. Drone work, and there was a bunch of-

Charlie Sandlan (27:27):

For a student film?

Kris Sidberry (27:29):

For a student. $20,000 camera, blown away. I met some other young kids. And I will say, as an older artist it is so helpful to be around the different generation of artists to feed off, because they're passionate. I'm kind of at jaded stage. I'm at crotchety. I'm that actor a little bit. But they're so excited about it, and they're like, "We're prepping for these big general auditions." And I didn't even realize Nashville had theater. And they're like, "Oh. So the Nashville Repertory Company," which is the biggest one here, "is having general auditions." I haven't had to do a general audition in I can't even tell you.

Charlie Sandlan (28:09):

Right.

Kris Sidberry (28:10):

And they were like, "It's in four days. Maybe you should try that." And so I somehow cobbled together a monologue, two monologues, and got called back. I said I was available for three shows, because two of them are musicals and I wasn't doing that. They called me back for two, and I booked both of those shows. One of the shows is A Christmas Carol, which is my dad's favorite Christmas movie, and it's going to be in the theater complex that my dad took me to that made me want to be an actor. So I say if my dad hadn't died ...

Charlie Sandlan (28:49):

See, that's some full circle shit.

Kris Sidberry (28:50):

Full circle, yeah. If he hadn't died, I would have never found that. I need that to keep going.

Charlie Sandlan (29:03):

Now, is this something you're going to do in the fall and holiday season?

Kris Sidberry (29:06):

I am, yeah. Yeah. We have our photo shoot next Tuesday. I can't wait. I'm going to play ... I've done a multi-track, like a two-person track show, but I've never played four characters. So I have to play four characters. One is the Ghost of Christmas Past, which I get to fly. I'm so excited. I've never got to be on wire before. I cannot wait. And it's just that it's like ... I'll get to be on the stage that made me want to do this. And then in June next year I get to do POTUS, which just came off Broadway.

Charlie Sandlan (29:41):

Yes. Right.

Kris Sidberry (29:44):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (29:44):

Was it Amy Sedaris? I don't know who was in it on Broadway. It was [inaudible 00:29:48].

Kris Sidberry (29:48):

Vanessa Williams was POTUS.

Charlie Sandlan (29:51):

Right.

Kris Sidberry (29:51):

So I play Chris, which is the publicist person. All female cast.

Charlie Sandlan (29:57):

You're doing that next June?

Kris Sidberry (30:00):

Next June. So yeah, so now I can say I'm actually ... I'm not booked out, but I've got projects.

Charlie Sandlan (30:07):

There's nothing better than to say I've got this coming up, I've got this coming up, or I just shot that and I just shot this.

Kris Sidberry (30:14):

Yep.

Charlie Sandlan (30:14):

You get six months on either side.

Kris Sidberry (30:16):

Yeah, it's the best. I hate when people constantly like, "So what do you got coming up next?" And you're like, "You just came to my opening night. Can I live?"

Charlie Sandlan (30:25):

Yeah.

Kris Sidberry (30:27):

I don't want to think about next, but now I can be like, "Oh, well, actually ..."

Charlie Sandlan (30:33):

Yeah, that's wonderful. So you're going to stick in Nashville for a while?

Kris Sidberry (30:35):

Yeah, I'm going to bounce back and forth between Nashville and LA. Commercials have gone back in person in LA, and my rep is not so happy that I'm not there. While I love being here, I have to be around other actors. I have to stay in it. I have to talk about acting, so I'm so happy to do this podcast. Because the further away I get from it, the more I start to see how hard it is. When you're in it and everyone else is in that daily grind and you're making connections, it doesn't feel so hard or so far away.

Charlie Sandlan (31:09):

No, relationships are important.

Kris Sidberry (31:11):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (31:12):

You have to really cultivate a community of people that you are inspired by, that you respect, that you think are talented. You got to have a tribe.

Kris Sidberry (31:22):

Absolutely. This is a thing I would always tell young actors, too. I have gotten more work from my fellow actors than I have all of my rep combined, especially theater-wise, and I think a lot of people don't understand that. And I remember in school how many actors were lazy, just didn't care.

Charlie Sandlan (31:45):

Of course. Jesus.

Kris Sidberry (31:45):

I'm like, "I hope you know that most of-

Charlie Sandlan (31:47):

Unprofessional, late.

Kris Sidberry (31:49):

Yeah, all the things. I'm like, "The person sitting next to you in class may not make it an actor, but they might go into a casting, and they'll remember you. They might go into being a producer, and they'll remember you." Because I don't put my name on actors, and I have people reach out to me all the time. "Hey, can you recommend somebody for this?" "Hey, we just had an actor drop." Especially for theater. I have a lot of friends that they'll book a show, for some reason they'll have a tragedy. I had a friend whose mom had a heart attack, had to leave, and she was like, "I'm putting your name in the hat," and I booked that show. And I just think other actors should realize your tribe will get you more work, especially in the beginning.

Charlie Sandlan (32:30):

Absolutely. 100%. Someone will do the same thing for me, and I'll think, "Oh, this person's great for it, but they've got a bit of an attitude." I didn't really like the way they conducted themselves. I'm not going to put my reputation on the line by vouching for somebody who might be right for it, but you're kind of an asshole. You were just a little defensive, or you had an attitude, or you're just not serious.

Kris Sidberry (32:56):

You're flaky, yep.

Charlie Sandlan (32:56):

Right.

Kris Sidberry (32:56):

Yep, you're flaky. No, I can't. I can't. So that one, I would ... Any young actor, I'm like, "You never know." On set, you don't know. Especially on set, I think every person in that room is also climbing a ladder. Yes, they might be setting up a light on this project, but they're actually a director and you don't know that. I worked on a very small industrial, and because of the guy setting up the lights on that was like, "Oh, I actually work for the Navy, and they're looking to cast an actress that looks like you." So now, every year I'll get flown to Chicago and I do work for the Navy, because I was nice to the guy that put the lights up on set.

Charlie Sandlan (33:38):

Are you kidding? See, what a little nice side gig comes up every once in a while, gives you some money, gets you back on a set. That's incredible.

Kris Sidberry (33:46):

Just be nice. Careful with gossip, because you don't know who on set knows who.

Charlie Sandlan (33:50):

Oh, absolutely. I tell my students, "Do not gossip. Don't give over to it. Don't give into it. It's so easy. You go out or you hang by the craft table. You bitch, complain. You want to talk. It will come back to you, and it will get to the person you're talking about, 100%."

Kris Sidberry (34:07):

Yes, 100%. A great example of it, I worked with Jillian Bell on this pilot called The Wrong Mans, which was a BB show that HBO was trying to bring here. They had a lot of issue with the casting company. The lead of the show, I won't say his name. He was like, "Hey, can you tell me what is up with this casting company?" And I, at the moment was like ... Luckily, I didn't say too, too much about it. But then when we stopped talking, the other actor, who was a local also, was like, "Hey, be careful, because that makeup artist that was sitting in the corner is a sister-in-law to the head CD of that casting company." And that was my first. Thank God I didn't say anything, but I was put in kind of a rough position because the lead actor of the show was also a producer on that show. And had I-

Charlie Sandlan (35:06):

Just never know. You just never know who's around, who knows who, what the relationships are.

Kris Sidberry (35:11):

Never.

Charlie Sandlan (35:11):

You can just completely screw yourself.

Kris Sidberry (35:12):

Yeah, so just careful, careful.

Charlie Sandlan (35:18):

Well, one of the things that I find very interesting about you and your life is you're incredibly well-educated.

Kris Sidberry (35:24):

Thank you.

Charlie Sandlan (35:24):

Your journey to where you are now is fascinating. You got BFA. What was your BFA in?

Kris Sidberry (35:29):

Theater and performance.

Charlie Sandlan (35:33):

All right. So you get a BFA from where?

Kris Sidberry (35:34):

From University of Evansville in Southern Indiana.

Charlie Sandlan (35:37):

Okay, so in Indiana. Of course.

Kris Sidberry (35:37):

Mm-hmm.

Charlie Sandlan (35:38):

I went to Purdue for undergrad. And then you get a master's from Harvard.

Kris Sidberry (35:44):

Yes.

Charlie Sandlan (35:46):

How do you go from that to saying, "I'm going to be an actor"?

Kris Sidberry (35:52):

So I originally went to Harvard at ART. So I was 22, and I had one month off between my BFA and MFA, because that program started in July.

Charlie Sandlan (36:05):

Yeah, that's hard.

Kris Sidberry (36:06):

I had my first breakup during that point. Boston to me was like ... I say you could've dropped me off in rural China and I would've done better than I did in Boston. I just wasn't prepared. So yeah, I ended up leaving that program at ART. I was always good at business. I thought I wanted to be a consultant, and then got into a consulting class. The teacher was like one of the VPs at McKinsey. And learning like, "No, that's not actually what you want to do."

(36:43):

I just learned very quickly like, "Oh, what I think business is," and that's like everything. There's your idea of what this job entails and the actuality of it, and most of the time there's a big disconnect. For actors, that is one. You might want to be an actor. You might love acting. Do you want this lifestyle? Because it's a lifestyle.

Charlie Sandlan (37:07):

Right. It's one thing to say I love acting. It's another thing to say I want to pursue a professional acting career. It's a completely different thing.

Kris Sidberry (37:13):

And same with business for me. I will never forget one of my first classes in my last semester, too. I had to quit the class because I had booked the show, the timing didn't work, and go into a different class. The teacher was like, "Hey, you know what? Do what you love and the money will follow." Now, I have my druthers with that phrase. Yes and no. But for what he was saying is like, "Just do what makes you happy. If you don't want to really pursue a career in corporate America, go try this acting." I'm so glad I did. I'm really glad I did.

Charlie Sandlan (37:49):

Well, now let me ask you this. You got a BFA. How much time did you do at ART?

Kris Sidberry (37:55):

About seven months.

Charlie Sandlan (37:56):

What would then make you then say, "I want to do another two-year program?" Why didn't you just say, "I'm going to start, pursuing a career. I'm going to get my headshot, start auditioning." Why did you say, "You know what, I want to do just Maggie Flanigan Studio"?

Kris Sidberry (38:11):

I think I understood I needed to train again. I wasn't always getting it. It was like a three or four-year, maybe four years off completely, not acting at all. Then I booked that theater gig, and had done some little work here or there. But I just wanted an intensive, and so I took the summer intensive. Having actually no, no thought of actually taking two years off. And I think we may have talked about it, that I was really scared. Because I was starting to work, but I think I knew once I got into the summer program that it would be worth it for me to go ahead and actually do it. I dropped out of grad school. I needed something else, but I also understood I didn't want to do the grad school model. I needed something that allowed me to still be working and living a life without that, or that debt, because-

Charlie Sandlan (39:15):

Yeah, you can't do that when grad school. Grad school, it's all consuming and you're off the grid for a couple of years.

Kris Sidberry (39:20):

So yeah, I'm so glad I did.

Charlie Sandlan (39:21):

Well, you've got a couple things. I'm glad you did, too. And look, it's paid off. I mean, you're grinding out a career, you know?

Kris Sidberry (39:29):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (39:30):

You're already in 10th percentile of all actors that are trying to do this with their life.

Kris Sidberry (39:37):

I guess so. That's weird for someone else to say it, but thank you. Yeah. I guess that is true. Yeah. Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (39:48):

Yeah. I'm very proud of you. It's because it a hard life.

Kris Sidberry (39:50):

Yeah. Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (39:51):

It's a hard life.

Kris Sidberry (39:52):

The life of it.

Charlie Sandlan (39:52):

You've got to really want it. Yeah.

Kris Sidberry (39:55):

Yeah. I think-

Charlie Sandlan (39:56):

Well, now you've got a couple things in the can that are coming up, don't you?

Kris Sidberry (39:59):

They do, yay. Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (40:03):

Yeah, Money Game. Talk to me about Money Game.

Kris Sidberry (40:04):

Oh, yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (40:04):

What's Money Game?

Kris Sidberry (40:07):

There is another perfect example. It was a short film, the short that I did, an acquaintance. That was beautifully shot, and he's a professional filmmaker. On that film, I met a guy named Daniel, who played my brother. He ended up getting cast as my husband in the Whitney movie. And during the Whitney movie, he was like, "Hey, I'm going to be shooting this independent film. I think you'd be great to play my sister again." And the producers loved that storyline of brother, husband, brother. That was my first film. That was a straight offer. And again, it was another actor who got me that gig. And then hopefully, some possible voiceover stuff that now we don't know because of the strike. That's been my newest thing. I've been really jumping into the voiceover pool.

Charlie Sandlan (41:08):

Well, it's a nice little side hustle. It's a good way to make some money if you can get into it, right?

Kris Sidberry (41:13):

It's hard. Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (41:14):

It is hard, right? It's a skillset. It's its own thing.

Kris Sidberry (41:20):

It's a whole nother career. So I got very lucky, and I have an LA agent that made me not have a compete with my New York agent. I'm with Stewart Talent in New York. Voiceover artists, some of them don't do anything else. So I would get five, six auditions, all at 5:00 PM, all due by 10:00 AM the next day, and then have legit auditions come in. And I'm like, "I actually can't." It's not physically possible for me. I mean, I would get it done. So now, I just have the one. But yeah, those animation auditions are long and hard. I had one for a little kid show in Nickelodeon playing eight different characters. So it's eight different voices trying to throw accents in, and singing, and I have to audio engineer that all myself. So before you say you want to do-

Charlie Sandlan (42:10):

Right, you have to put it together.

Kris Sidberry (42:11):

Yeah. You want to be a voiceover artist, realize that it is a completely separate thing. I'm learning a lot, but I love it. I just get to be a weirdo in a box, and play, and be silly. It's acting, but I don't have to wear any makeup. I love it.

Charlie Sandlan (42:32):

Yeah, right.

Kris Sidberry (42:35):

No one's looking at me to be weird. Have fun.

Charlie Sandlan (42:39):

Well, I mean, why I think you're still in the game is because you have so many different ways of making money, so many different ways of applying your craft. You're a wonderful human being.

Kris Sidberry (42:54):

Thank you.

Charlie Sandlan (42:54):

People like you and want to work with you and want to collaborate with you. That's so important.

Kris Sidberry (43:02):

Thank you.

Charlie Sandlan (43:03):

I'm just really proud of you. I just love watching how things are unfolding for you. I know you're in a shitty period of grief, and you'll come out of it. You're being really proactive about it too, which is also very healthy.

Kris Sidberry (43:18):

Thank you. Thank you.

Charlie Sandlan (43:20):

You've got to process grief. It's the people that swallow it down and don't deal with it, that it just kind of rots away there.

Kris Sidberry (43:29):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (43:29):

So big virtual hug here to you.

Kris Sidberry (43:36):

Thank you. I think of you all the time, because you know how you would say in class you can't hold on to ... People would come in first year trying to hold on to devastation as if like ... You can't hold onto it. And now having gone too through this, how the moment will just come and then all of a sudden be over. The realness of it is that I'm actually not devastated 24/7 how I thought.

Charlie Sandlan (44:02):

Right. Well, you'll go through a day, hours where I'm fine. Everything's great, I'm good now. You'll hear a song, a thought, a smell, something, and you're just a ball. You're in the fetal position on the kitchen floor. It comes in waves.

Kris Sidberry (44:19):

Comes in waves. And then just like that, I let it out, and then I'm okay. It's just wow, but I think of that moment all the time like, "Oh, I see what ..." Now that I'm older, every now and then I'm going to be like, "Oh, that's what they meant. That's what they meant."

Charlie Sandlan (44:38):

Yeah, light bulbs go off. They go off years and years later.

Kris Sidberry (44:42):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (44:42):

I get it. Emotion is fluid. It ebbs and flows. You're not trying to feel.

Kris Sidberry (44:49):

Yeah, like it just happened.

Charlie Sandlan (44:51):

You're not trying to hold onto it. Right. Absolutely. All right. I can't believe we've already been talking an hour. This is crazy.

Kris Sidberry (44:58):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (44:58):

All right. Let's just out of here on some advice.

Kris Sidberry (45:03):

Okay.

Charlie Sandlan (45:03):

What do you want to offer to anyone that's serious about pursuing a professional artistic career? What do you think is important to consider?

Kris Sidberry (45:15):

I think a big thing would be, is you're going to have to be okay for it to look different than what your ideal is. And truly ask, why are you in this? What will make you fulfilled? And now, where you want to live? Because if you demand to live in New York or LA, that is extremely expensive when there are now many other markets that you can live. I think that you need to be fiscally prepared for that, or otherwise you will ride a hamster wheel that you can never get out of. And it is not like you hear these actors be like, "I showed up to LA with $100 in my pocket." Well, that's great. Back in 1992, you could do that. You can't do that anymore.

(46:05):

The self-tape. Yes, a self-tape kit isn't super expensive, but you add that to headshots, to all these sites that you got to be on now, and all of that. I urge people to sit down, really do finances and look, and maybe be okay with starting out in a smaller market and getting some credits, then this dream of I have to be in these two very expensive places. I see a lot of young actor friends, even from Maggie that are just on this hamster wheel of like, "I had to get a job to support it," and then never actually auditioning or getting anywhere.

(46:46):

And understanding that if you are not okay with once you get busy, if you're a person that doesn't do good with instability, there are other ways of being an actor that make your life not so ... I just have friends that are like, "Yeah, I like a routine every day." And I'm like, "I fly so much that when I land, I can't remember what city I came from when I look at the baggage claim board." I mean, it sucks, but I can handle that. And if you can't handle that, really find another avenue to where you can be fulfilled with this, but don't quit.

(47:23):

I just see a lot of actors be like, "Oh, it must be this way." No, you have to be flexible that it can be another way. There are lots of ways of being an actor that may not make you a movie star, and you just have to be okay with, "I may not be a movie star and everyone may not know my name, but how much do I love this?" I suggest do that now before you invest time and money into it, because if you only want to be a movie star or only want it to look a certain way, take a real hard look at what an actor career might look like for you.

Charlie Sandlan (47:59):

Well, my fellow daydreamers, thank you for sticking around and keeping that phone in your pocket. Please subscribe, follow the show wherever you get your podcast. Spread the word. Tell your friends there's this incredible acting podcast that they have to listen to. You can write a review on iTunes. I'd really appreciate that.

(48:14):

You can go to https://creatingbehaviorpodcast.com Go to the contact page, hit that red button. Now, use SpeakPipe. Leave me a message. I will get back to you.

(48:21):

You can also go to https://maggieflaniganstudio.com If you are interested in training with me professionally, my next first-year class begins September 8th. After that, the next one is January 4th. You can also follow me on Instagram @maggieflaniganstudio, @creatingbehavior.

(48:36):

Lawrence Trailer, thank you for the song, my man. My Friends, figure out your path. It can go in many different ways. Stay resilient, play full out with yourself, and don't ever settle for your second best. My name is Charlie Sandlan. Peace.