085 How to Go Down a Rabbit Hole

Time for another solo episode fellow daydreamers. This week Charlie shares one way he exercises his intellectual curiosity. Most recently, it started with an article about the playwright Jeremy O Harris, and how that led to a deep dive into the artist Kara Walker, the great fashion icon André Leon Talley, Manet, Audre Lorde, and MLK's Letter From a Birmingham jail. Charlie also shares some  advice on the issue of intensity and pushing in actors. You can follow CBP on Instagram @creatingbehavior, and Charlie's NYC acting conservatory, the Maggie Flanigan Studio @maggieflaniganstudio. Theme music by  https://www.thelawrencetrailer.com. For written transcripts, to leave a voicemail on SpeakPipe, or contact Charlie for private coaching, check out https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com

Transcript

Charlie Sandlan (00:02):

So I've talked a lot about the need for intellectual curiosity if you want to live a serious artistic life. I think it's something you need to be able to do, which is to feed yourself inspirationally, educate yourself. I've said many times you can't bring more to your art than what resides inside of you, but you become adults. You go through your life. Weeks, months, years goes by, you haven't picked up a book, you haven't really learned anything. You might think to yourself, "Well, fuck. I have to get into a class. Should I get into an art history class? I don't have time for any of that." But you can go down a rabbit hole or two, and that's what I'm going to take you through today.

(00:40):

My rabbit hole, how an article in the New Yorker about Jeremy O. Harris led me to Martin Luther King and his letter from a Birmingham jail through the artist Kara Walker and her incredible painting of Christ's Entry into Journalism. It led me to Toulouse-Lautrec, Josephine Baker, Baudelaire. I learned what enfant terrible means and so much more. I'm going to take you down a rabbit hole in a solo episode, my friends. So put the phone back in your pocket. Creating behavior starts now.

(01:22):

Well, hello, my fellow daydreamers. Hope all is well with you. Today I'm going to take you down a rabbit hole and kind of show you how I educate myself and discover things that I didn't even know I needed to discover. Our ignorance is so vast and it's so easy when you become an adult and life starts to just have its way with you. You can go months, you can go years without really challenging yourself to learn or discover something new. It's time-consuming sometimes. You think to yourself, "Well, how do I do that? I've got to read. I've got to set time aside to figure out even what it is I want to learn." But I don't know, sometimes you don't even know what you don't know.

(02:43):

So there was this really good article in the New Yorker. This is September 18th, 2023. Okay, so I get my magazine and pull it up, and there's this article by Vinson Cunningham, V-I-N-S-O-N. This guy's an incredible writer. That's another thing, once you read somebody, a journalist or an essayist that really speaks to you, start following them. I'm certainly going to be following Vinson Cunningham. It was a profile of Jeremy O, Harris and the basic subject of the article was his life pre Slave Play and post Slave Play. Now, if you don't know who Jeremy O. Harris is and Slave Play, why don't you start right there. Get a copy of Slave Play and read it. That would be the first thing that you could do. Just, "Dear Google, Jeremy O. Harris," and start to understand his life a little bit.

(03:51):

Slave Play was a seminal piece of theater, came out right around 2018, 2019, somewhere around there, pre-pandemic. The concept of the play really is these couples that are engaged in this, I guess the way to best describe it, pre antebellum, slave, master, sexual therapy. Before you realize that they're in therapy, what you're seeing are these master, slave sexual relationships being lived out on stage. It's very graphic, shocking, uncomfortable, funny. It covers so many different internal feelings when you're watching this racism play out. Then another act later, you realize that they're in therapy, and the third act is really this very violent, disturbing sexual fantasy that lived out between this couple. It put him on the map.

(05:01):

So I start reading the article. And you know this, when you read an article, they'll link a lot of things. They'll mention something and there'll be a link that you could hit and drill down into something else. That is the first thing that I would suggest that you do, drill down into every link that pops up in an article that you're reading. I'll have to say that a lot of the stuff that I'm even talking about, I haven't even gotten to yet. It's a list. I've got a list of plays and playwrights that I've discovered from this article that I have on order. They're showing up for me at the studio and I'll probably spend the rest of the year through the holidays reading all of the plays that I learned about in this article.

(05:45):

The first was one of Jeremy O. Harris's later plays most recent called, Daddy. Never heard of it. All I know of Jeremy O. Harris is Slave Play, which is pretty simplistic considering he's got so much more than that. So I write down Daddy, Jeremy O. Harris. We're going to get it from Drama Books. I'll read you a line that first sent me down the rabbit hole. It's the middle of a sentence, but he's talking about his current life. "Now, he binged anime and listened to Fiona Apple and started reading Audre Lorde's Sister Outsider, which he'd always meant to get to." Okay, well first off, I mean, I know Fiona Apple, I know her music. I don't really need to educate myself on that, but who the fuck is Audre Lorde and what is Sister Outsider? Never heard of either one.

(06:43):

So Audre Lorde was a very important African-American essayist writer, feminist, philosopher. She was a professor. She was an activist. She wrote extensively on civil rights. She died in '92 of cancer. Young, only 58 years old. She was also a poet. The Sister Outsider is arguably one of her most important works. It's a collection of essays, 15 essays.

(07:09):

Now, I haven't read it yet, it's on order, but I write this down, so Daddy, okay, I'm going to order that, and I just ordered a copy of Sister Outsider. It's 15 essays, speeches, and the issues that these essays take on cover everything from sexism, racism, ageism, class, the social difference between races. It was very important when it comes to giving voice to the African-American experience. Now, I had never heard of her, but I did find one important quote from this collection of essays that stuck with me, "Your silence will not protect you. Guilt is not a response to anger. It is a response to one's own actions or lack of action. If it leads to change, then it can be useful, since it is then no longer guilt, but the beginning of knowledge." Now, that was something that I've been chewing on for a couple of days now.

(08:18):

So Audre Lorde, I can't wait to read Sister Outsider and learn more about her. She also wrote a collection of essays called The Cancer Journals. She was diagnosed with cancer in the '80s. It's considered a major piece of work when it comes to, I guess what we would call the illness narrative, someone taking you through the journey of being sick, particularly with cancer and how Audre dealt with that. I have that on my list too. So now I've got three things on order, Daddy, Sister Outsider, and The Cancer Journals.

(08:55):

The second name that pops up in this article that I did not really know, I think I'd kind of heard of him, and that is Andre Leon Talley. Now, if you don't know who Andre Leon Talley is, I'll just give you the quote in the article where it's brought up. It says here, "He was reflecting on some of his favorite writers and artists of an older generation and the way that their talk was often as effortlessly stylized as their work. He'd been thinking about Andre Leon Talley, a fashion writer and editor whose high diction and baroque syntax became hallmarks of his style and seemed moreover like a way of asserting his belonging in a largely white milieu."

(09:35):

Okay, well, who the fuck is Andre Leon Talley? It links to another New Yorker article, but this one from 1994. Okay, so now we're talking about going back 30 years, and this article is by Hilton Als. Now, Hilton Als is one of my favorite New Yorker writers, an incredible critic. His writing on theater, on film, on art is exceptional. He's had an extensive career, and if you want to really educate yourself about art and theater and culture in the world, particularly this country, in New York, read Hilton Als. Anyway, this is an article now titled The Only One, "As a Black man and the creative director of Vogue, Andre Leon Talley is at the intersection of Many Worlds."

(10:26):

Okay, so now I'm spending another hour, hour and a half reading this article about Andre Leon Talley, who from right off the bat I learned was the creative director of Vogue for a big stretch of time back in the '90s. So now I start reading this article. I'm off the Jeremy O. Harris article for a good hour, hour and a half as I started going down this rabbit hole. And then you realize that Andre Leon Talley was 6'7. He was a very big man, very flamboyant, incredible sense of style. He was a master of French literature, French art. He had a flare for the dramatic, and I'll just give you a description here.

(11:11):

This is Hilton Als talking about Andre Leon Talley. He says, "Appearances are significant to Andre Leon Talley, who seeks always to live up to the grand amalgamation of his three names. He has sienna brown skin and slightly grained close-cropped hair. He's six-feet seven and has large hand and large feet and a barrel chest. He has been described as a big girl. He's gaped toothed and full mouthed. His speech combines an old school negro syntax, French words for sardonic emphasis, and a posh British accent. Though a white audience may know him from his periodic television appearances on CNN and VH1, it is in the world of magazines that he has made his name. Currently, the creative director of Vogue, formerly the creative director of HG, and a writer stylist and photographer for Women's Wear Daily, Interview, and the Times Magazine. Andre Leon Talley is at 46, fashions most valuable arbiter, custodian, and promoter of glamour."

(12:17):

Well, right there, I just learned a hell of a lot about this man, and it influences of course why Jeremy O. Harris would reference him to begin with. Certainly when you see how Jeremy dresses, the way he carries himself, he too is a very tall man, 6'4, I think 6'5. In this article, Andre is mentioning so much art and artists and paintings. He says, "'Oh,' Talley exclaimed, 'It's Nostalgie de la bouie, it's Déjeuner sur l'herbe. No, Manet, the flesh, the young man.'" I'm like, "What the fuck is this?"

(12:57):

All right, so nostalgie de la bouie, I don't even know if I'm saying it right, nostalgie de la bouie. I don't know, it's French, but I have no idea what it fucking means. So let me look it up. So nostalgie de la bouie, it is nostalgia for mud. It is the attraction to low life culture, experience, and degradation. Okay, I love it. I hope to use that in a sentence at some point. He mentions the painting Déjeuner sur l'herbe by Manet.

(13:34):

Okay, well, I certainly know who Manet is, but I don't know that painting in particular. So Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe, English translation is, lunch on the grass. Big, big painting, large painting by Manet. And when you start to really take into painting, and you can just do it online, "Dear fucking Google," it is a picture of these two men fully dressed, they're lounging back. There's a woman in between them fully naked, they're clearly having to picnic. This woman is looking right at us, and in the background in the middle, there's another woman naked who seems to be taking a bath.

(14:13):

Now, this is a painting that Manet created back in the 1860s, 1862, 1863. It was very controversial and shocking really to see these naked women sitting on the grass in between these two men lounging around. It was shocking at the time. But as you go on to read, you realize it was an important piece of art, because it was one of the first real impressionist works that started to break away from kind of like what the classical view of art was and what it was considered to be at the time. It really kind of took on taboos around nudity, female nudity in art. It's a little misogynistic. It's a little unsettling when you just kind of take it in. It's certainly in today's contemporary mindset. Okay, so there's a work of art, Manet. Something I just learned by going down the rabbit hole.

(15:10):

Now, I'm still in the article of Hilton Als and Andre Talley, so I keep reading, it's a very long piece. He mentions Madonna's book, Sex. Now, I'm aware of Madonna's book, Sex. It came out in the '90s. Sex was a coffee table book that came out in 1992, and it was made, produced, by Madonna, and it shook up the art world. It shook up pop culture. It was provocative, it was scandalous. And so it takes me to this article from Rolling Stone that I pull up from 2017, and this was the title of the article by Barry Walters. It said, "Madonna's erotica, Sex, why musical masterpiece defiant book still matter." And the subtitle of the article says, "How the icons 1992 projects her own lemonade, in parentheses, tackled homophobia, aids hysteria, and female desire, and set the blueprint for modern pop." And some of these photographs were so stunning, very sexual, a lot of nudity, and at the time when this book came out, Madonna was arguably the Beyonce of her time. She was the most important musician, rockstar, on the planet. It was very provocative.

(16:31):

I don't even own a copy of that. Boom on my list. I'm going to get a copy of this book so I have it in my collection, because it's important and something that I was aware of at the time, but you forget about it. In this article, he uses the phrase enfant terrible, another French phrase. I mean, I get it. I can translate that to terrible child, but what does it mean to use it in a sentence if you want to use the word enfant terrible? It really means just an incorrigible child, someone whose behavior is embarrassing. Well, I can guarantee you, the next time Trish pisses me off and starts acting out, I'm going to say, "You know what? Stop being enfant terrible." My vocabulary just expands. Then I get to this sentence way down in the Hilton Als piece here, and it says, this is a quote from Andre, he says, "Magazines are not a Diderot moment oeuvreness." Talley says, "They are monthly ventures that should amuse and earn money by showing how kind money can be."

(17:41):

Okay, well, I get the sentence, but what the fuck does, "Diderot moment of oeuvreness," mean? Who the fuck is Diderot? I've heard the name, but do I really know who Diderot is? No. All right, rabbit hole. Let's go. Denis Diderot, he was a French philosopher. He was a critic. What he's best known for, what really endeared him to posterity, he was the co-founder and the chief editor and contributor, what is known as the Encyclopedia. It was considered one of the most important collections of knowledge in the Age of Enlightenment. So we're talking about the 18th century here.

(18:23):

He talked a lot about anti-slavery, about the need for rational thought. Diderot strongly opposed slavery. Now, this was in the 1700s. He denounced the crimes that people committed against enslaved people and firmly believed that all people were innately free. So this is where a lot of our founding fathers got their inspiration from, was reading people like Diderot.

(18:51):

Now, Diderot died in 1784, but what he had to say about freedom, about democracy, about materialism, about the acquiring of things, which there's a lot of roots in capitalism, but you can see where a lot of our American way of living life has been influenced by the thoughts and the philosophy of Diderot. Okay, boom. Wow. Now I know who Diderot is. At one point in this article, he mentions the actress, Elsie de Wolfe. Never heard of her, Elsie de Wolfe. Who the hell is this? Okay, so I do a little deep dive.

(19:32):

She was an American actress. This is back in the early '30s, '40s, '50s. She also became a very important interior designer, which I can understand now why Andre would've known who she was. But what really put her on the map was she was one of the really first serious female interior designers in America. And now we're talking back in the 1930s, which to really establish yourself as a woman in a professional field, it says something. And here's one of her famous quotes, I thought it was funny and I thought I would share it with you. She said, "If there's trouble at home for white people, they send the child to a psychiatrist. Black folks just send you to live with grandma." There's been a lot of standup comedy that's been rooted in that same thought. All right, so now I know who Elsie de Wolfe is. And by the time I get done with this article, I've learned a hell of a lot about the fashion world, certainly not just in the '90s, but well before a lot of the influences that played upon him and changed him and fashion in general.

(20:40):

It was a very informative article. Okay, did that. Now I'm going to go back to the Jeremy O. Harris article and pick up where I left off. And now I come to another link as I read this article and another name that I do not recognize, and I'll just read this sentence. It says, "This is a part of my plays that was also a part of growing up. I've always had to figure out how to translate stuff from the academy into language that my mom could understand without asking her to take time from her life to read Saidiya Hartman. A dramaturgical note for Slave Play quoted both Hartman and Hortense Spillers, another Black feminist scholar, but the play itself takes Rihanna as its primary muse. Okay. I have no idea who Saidiya Hartman or Hortense Spillers are. So let's just go down that rabbit hole.

(21:31):

Saidiya Hartman is a contemporary African-American woman essayist, who is most known for her collection of essays called Scenes of Subjection: Terror, Slavery, and Self-Making in Nineteenth-Century America. And she also wrote Lose Your Mother, a journey along the Atlantic Slave Route. Okay, that's some heavy shit. On the list it goes. So what am I ordering from Amazon? Scenes of Objection, and Lose Your Mother. Clearly she's an important voice and I want to find out more about her. Okay. So now my list is getting even longer, and this is all just off this article.

(22:14):

Hortense Spillers, never heard of her, no idea who she was. She's also a very important African-American woman writer. She's an American literary critic, and she's a Black feminist scholar, really, if you want to phrase it in a different way. Now, she's in her 80s, she's still alive, but she's written a lot of essays on African-American literature. One of her more important collections, it's called, Black, White, and in Color, essays on American Literature and Culture. This was published in 2003. Okay, I'm all in. On the list it goes. I come to find out one of her more important collections, this is back from '87, what I guess she's best known for, it's an essay called Mama's Baby, Papa's Maybe, an American Grammar book. It is often considered one of the most cited essays in African-American literary studies. Okay, I want to know about that. On the list it goes.

(23:20):

At another point in the article, Jeremy mentions Martin Luther King and his Letter from a Birmingham Jail. I mean, of course we all know who Martin Luther King is, and I have heard of, and I'm aware of the Letter from a Birmingham Jail. This is when, at the time, all I knew was, okay, this is probably like the late '50s. He was arrested in Birmingham for some nonviolent protests, and he wrote a letter to the people that were complaining and fighting him. Okay, that was about the extent of my knowledge. Had I ever read the letter? No. So this Letter from a Birmingham Jail, it was an open letter that Martin Luther King wrote on April 16th, 1963.

(24:07):

At the time, Birmingham was probably one of the most segregated, racially divisive cities in America. And what Martin Luther King was doing was coordinating these marches and sit-ins that were absolutely against racism and racial segregation and he was arrested, thrown in jail. So I printed out the article, it's rather extensive. It's maybe six or seven pages. It's an incredible read, and I'll just read you one quote from it that really stuck with me that I felt like I had to write down and I wanted to share with you. Martin Luther King said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntary given by the oppressor. It must be demanded by the oppressed."

(25:00):

I'm so glad I read it and I encourage you to do the same. In referring to Slave Play in the article, Vinson Cunningham references Kara Walker and her 2017 painting, Christ's Entry into Journalism. Okay, I read this and I don't know who Kara Walker is. I really don't. I couldn't tell you anything about her. Well, okay, let me just first take a look at this painting, Kara Walker. It's from 2017, and the title of the piece is called Christ's Entry into Journalism. It hung in MoMA for quite some time and an exhibit that was featuring her. When you look at this, your jaw's going to drop. It's a huge, very, very big piece. And at the bottom of the painting, the figures, the people are large, and as you go up the painting, it becomes smaller and smaller. But the collection of tropes, the racism, the sense of humor, the sense of tragedy in this is phenomenal.

(26:14):

You can spend an hour looking at this painting. You look down in one corner and there's, it looks like a Rastafarian, some kind of hipster from the '60s. You look over on the other side and there's, looks like a police officer in riot gear swinging down his club on someone. You look up to the top, you see this man hanging, being lynched from a tree, and on both sides are these trapeze artists. It's this really incredible and disturbing kind of image of something that seems fun and free with this just awful graphic, horrific, hanging, lynched Black man in between them. It's a fascinating piece.

(27:07):

So I want to find out more about Kara Walker. So I discover her most famous work and I go, "Oh my God, I fucking saw this." I didn't even remember who the artist was. That's what was going on in my brain. Her most famous work is called A Subtlety, and it was an installation piece. It was also called The Marvelous Sugar Baby. It was installed in the Domino Sugar Refinery over in Williamsburg in Brooklyn in 2014. It was huge. The subtitle of the work was called an homage to the unpaid and overworked Artisans who have refined our sweet tastes from the cane fields to the Kitchen of the New World on the occasion of the demolition of the Domino Sugar Refining plant.

(27:57):

And so now it all comes full circle to me. I have a full appreciation of Kara Walker. I'm reminded of that great piece from 10 years ago, and now I know another piece of her work, and you could spend another 45 minutes looking at a lot of the other art and listening to interviews. I go to YouTube, all of a sudden there's an hour long YouTube conversation at MoMA with Kara Walker. Listening to her process, how she works, the impact of her work on society. You can just go down a rabbit hole. You could spend two hours on Kara Walker.

(28:32):

Also in the piece, Jeremy talks about the contemporaries, his contemporaries that he is influenced by, that he considers his friends and playwrights. A lot of them, some I know, some I don't know. So in the article he mentions Will Arbery, Martyna Majok, , Eleanor Burgess, Leah Nanako, Amy Herzog. Of that group I know Martina Mayak of course, and I know Amy Herzog. I don't know who Will Arbery is or Leah Nanako . On the list they go. I'm going to get whatever plays they have and start reading both of them.

(29:08):

So Jeremy ended up getting into Yale School of Drama, the playwriting program. One of his mentors, point people there, was the playwright Young Jean Lee. Now, I have heard of Young Jean Lee, but I wouldn't be able to tell you anything about her. Well, I mean, she's an incredibly important playwright, director, filmmaker. Two of her more important plays, Straight White Men, and We're Going to Die, written about 10 years ago. Don't know them, never read them. On the list they go. I'm going to order them.

(29:41):

I'm just going to read you a little bit here about what happened between the two of them. She had a very visceral response to the third act of Slave Play. It said that "the sequence, the most hotly debated part of Slave Play stayed in the show even after the move to Broadway. When Lee saw it in a dress rehearsal, she was horrified. Later, she told Harris that it took her more than an hour to calm down enough to give him feedback. The two then exchanged lengthy text messages. Jeremy said to her, "I hope that no one has ever spoken that violently to you about work that so deeply intersects with your being. And if they have, I'm sorry," Harris wrote. Lee replied, "If you're that irresponsible about putting a rape of a female body on stage, I'm going to call you out on it in no uncertain terms. To turn it around and call me the violent one as a classic move that has been done to me many times, and I've never fallen for it, and I'm not falling for it now."

(30:45):

Well, that's a pretty potent conversation and a back and forth with mentor and mentee, and I don't think they ever recovered from that. It's very interesting exchange, and it's food for thought. You just never know how somebody's going to take a piece of art. The artist really should not be in a position to apologize for it. And there you have two very strong-willed people, successful people with very different opinions about a piece of work.

(31:15):

Now, I could go on, literally, for another hour to talk about some other things that came up in that article, but I think you get my point. You can give yourself a semester's worth of education on culture, art, literature, history, by just reading one article if you allow yourself to just go down that rabbit hole.

(31:45):

I just find it fascinating. To me it's something that stirs me. I enjoy doing it, and I'm always grateful for just learning about something that I was completely ignorant of. So that's what I wanted to share with you. The article itself was really great just as it pertains to Jeremy O. Harris and his journey from life before Slave Play and what's happened to him after. I highly suggest it.

(32:12):

So before we get out of here, I thought I would leave you with a little acting advice, talk about something in particular here on my IG, on the studio's IG @maggieflaniganstudio. I will post Notes From Today's Acting C lass, and this is a note that I posted and I thought I would just talk about it for a hot second.

(32:31):

"Don't confuse intensity for being good. This means you have to trust that what you have is enough. Actors love to push, love to strain, love to indulge in their intensity. It's not pleasing to watch. You want a fluid inner life and a physical instrument that is not riddled with tension." Okay, so let's just talk about that for a second when it comes to acting. Young actors can confuse for intensity for being good, and it causes you to work hard and push and strain and violate what's called the principle of acting. And I think the principle of acting is a very important fundamental, and certainly in the Meisner work and first year of that training, it's something that just gets built in second nature. That is, "I don't do anything unless the other person makes me do it. You don't do anything. I don't do anything."

(33:24):

It's about being in continual adjustment to the other actor. When you start to push and you start to strain, a lot of that has to do with you just don't trust yourself. You don't trust that an audience is going to be able to see and get what it is that's going on with you. So you push, you strain, you ouch louder than you're pinched. It kind of fucks up the quality of your behavior. And there always needs to be an effortlessness to what you do.

(33:57):

Even when you do come to life in a full rich kind of intense moment, you've got to stay real eased, but you don't want to work for that intensity. You don't want to push, you don't want to strain. You want to work for ease. You got to leave yourself alone, trust that you did homework, and allow the truth of the moment to kind of guide you and take you. And if something's not right, something's not clear in the acting, well, if you're in rehearsal, you'll get a note. And if not, then you just got to trust that what you're doing is clear.

(34:35):

But that's a scary thing, because when you really do discover effortlessness in your acting, it's going to throw you, because you're thinking, "My God, I'm not really doing anything." In my second year class when I start to really work with my students on some major parts, complicated material, and they start to do good work, and I say, "That's really wonderful what you did there." It blows their mind. They'll say to me, "Well, I didn't feel like I was doing anything." And I'll say, "Well, it's the fact that you weren't pushing, you weren't straining. You started to really get a sense of ease, and it actually makes your behavior more clear. It just really throws you for a loop, because you're so used to straining, so used to working hard that it throws you upside down."

(35:22):

Give up intensity, give up straining, trust that you are enough, which is kind of an acting teacher cliche, but it's very important. That's really all I got for you today, fellow daydreamers. But I will just leave you with this Audre Lorde quote that I discovered when I was down the rabbit hole. And she said this, "When we speak we are afraid our words will not be heard nor welcomed. But when we are silent, we are still afraid, so it is better to speak."

(35:57):

Well, my fellow daydreamers, thank you for sticking around and keeping that phone in your pocket. Please subscribe, follow the show wherever you get your podcasts. If you got a few seconds, go to iTunes, leave me a great fucking review. That would really be fantastic. You can share this with your friends. Tell them you got this really great acting podcast, you got to listen to it. You can go to https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com. Go to the contact page, hit that red button. I use SpeakPipe, you can leave me a message, ask me a question, share with me some of your thoughts. I will get back to you. You can go to https://www.maggieflaniganstudio.com if you are interested in training with me in my New York City conservatory. You can also follow me on Instagram @creatingbehavior @maggieflaniganstudio. Lawrence Trailer, thank you for the music, my man. My friends, intellectual curiosity, keep at it, stay resilient, play full out with yourself, and don't ever settle for your second best. My name is Charlie Sandlan. Peace.