089 The Power of Manifestation

This week Charlie talks to his former student, actor and recording artist Ellis Melillo about her EP release Cry Wolf. Ellis went to a Brittney Spears concert with her dad at the age of five at Jones Beach. For over two decades she saw herself on that stage performing to a sold out crowd. Charlie and Ellis talk about that dream coming true when she opened for the Zac Brown Band this summer at Jones Beach. It's an incredible conversation about manifestation, the creative process, and the importance of giving yourself permission to acknowledge your talent. You can follow CBP on Instagram @creatingbehavior, and Charlie's NYC acting conservatory, the Maggie Flanigan Studio @maggieflaniganstudio. Theme music by  https://www.thelawrencetrailer.com. For written transcripts, to leave a voicemail on SpeakPipe, or contact Charlie for private coaching, check out https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com

Transcript

Charlie Sandlan (00:03):

I wonder how many of you believe, practice the power of manifestation. This belief that you can think it clearly and bring that into the world. You can read self-help books. You can listen to Oprah. You name it. You can find out about the power that we have as human beings to bring shit into the world. I think you need to have a vivid imagination first. You have to have clarity of thought, and then you need to really know what the fuck it is you want out of your life, what you want to bring into the world.

(00:37):

Well, today we're going to talk to one of my former students, Ellis Melillo. Now, Ellis, she's a first rate actress. She is also an incredible musician. She just released her first EP. It's called Cry Wolf. It's available everywhere. Now, Ellis, she went to her first concert at the age of five. Her dad took her to Britney Spears. And from that moment, she knew a couple of things. One, she wanted to sing in front of a lot of people, and two, she wanted to do it on that stage at Jones Beach.

(01:08):

So we're going to talk about how over two decades later, she found herself on that stage opening for Zac Brown Band in front of 15,000 people. Talk about the power of manifestation. So put the phone back in your pocket. Creating Behavior starts now. Well, hello, my fellow daydreamers, the power of manifestation. I think the first thing that you have to have in order to make manifesting something that is really possible for you is belief in yourself and having a real clear, real clear vision of what it is you want.

(02:18):

And that can be difficult. Because I think in order to get to that place, you have to believe or acknowledge inside yourself that you actually have a talent to offer. And then you have to be able to give yourself permission to acknowledge that. And we talk about that today. Ellis is very articulate about that, just giving yourself permission to accept that you're talented with something. This has to do with being kinder to yourself and the journey that Ellis had to go from beating herself up to being a little bit more kinder and gentler and supportive of herself.

(03:02):

When you want something so bad that it almost hurts that it aches, you can see it so clearly, you want it so bad, well then you have to keep doing everything you can to make that possible. It's daily work on yourself. So what's interesting is when Ellis found herself in that position, all of a sudden, oh my God, I'm going to open for Zac Brown in front of 15,000 people. She was prepared. She wasn't overwhelmed. She wasn't scared shitless. She wasn't nervous. She had seen it.

(03:32):

She had put herself on that stage in her imagination for 20 some odd years, and it played itself out the exact way she had imagined it in her mind's eye. It's incredible. We're going to talk about the importance of setting goals, clear goals. Ellis uses a whiteboard, eraser, a marker. She has it visually in her room. She sees it every day written out.

(04:01):

To me, that seems very helpful to see something that vividly not just in your mind's eye, but in the physical space when you can read it every day. So at the start of the conversation, I just asked her how the fuck did it feel to be on that stage, and did the reality of it fit the daydream? So let me turn it over to Ellis Melillo.

Ellis Melillo (04:32):

It felt like I was supposed to be there. I kept thinking about it. I was like, I'm going to cry when I'm on stage. I'm going to freak out, or I'm going to forget the words or whatever. And then when I was actually on stage, which I didn't know I was going to go on stage in front of 15,000 people with Zac, he didn't tell me that until 45 minutes beforehand. He was like, "Oh, come talk to me on my glass." And then he was like, "What song do you want to sing?" I was like, oh my God. I wasn't nervous. I wasn't freaked out. It was very calming, actually.

Charlie Sandlan (05:00):

You were fully present in the moment, I hope.

Ellis Melillo (05:03):

I was, yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (05:05):

What was it like to look out and see... Is that the most people you've ever played for? I would assume.

Ellis Melillo (05:09):

Yeah, it is. I played some big festivals early on, so all those people weren't there yet. I mean, it was exactly what I envisioned it to look like.

Charlie Sandlan (05:18):

What did you envision it to look like as a kid when you're in your room and you're thinking... What'd you see, Britney Spears when you were five?

Ellis Melillo (05:27):

I did, yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (05:28):

From then on, what did you envision? You actually saw yourself on stage and playing your music.

Ellis Melillo (05:35):

Yeah, it was the center of that stage. Well, it was weird. I saw my first concert there when I was five and told my dad that it changed my life and that I wouldn't be nervous to sing anymore after that. I had gotten slowly closer to that stage throughout my life. My friend Devin, who was my tour manager for this, used to tour manage Warped Tour, and that would be held in the parking lot of Jones Beach.

(05:57):

So I would go there with her while she was tour managing, and she would bring me onto the stage while it was completely empty, and her and I would write in notebooks on the stage what we wanted. And then I dated somebody whose band was playing there maybe five summers ago, and he brought me backstage and I started crying because I was just so close to... I was so close. And then Zac and I talked backstage there four years ago, which was when he asked me to send him my music.

(06:24):

And then fast-forward four years, I was on stage there with him, but it was always the same vision of just me, all the lights shining in my eyes, center stage, the whole place filled, and that was exactly what it was.

Charlie Sandlan (06:39):

That's incredible.

Ellis Melillo (06:41):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (06:42):

Well, when did you start writing music and picking up the guitar and just taking that seriously for yourself?

Ellis Melillo (06:51):

I started writing music when I was 10 and playing guitar when I was 11, and then putting that together when I was 11. I was awkward in middle school, so I wrote about being alone.

Charlie Sandlan (07:04):

Well, yeah, I mean, I've read where you've said that you would dressed like Avril Lavigne and you were tall, and so you had a lot of time alone. So was it a lonely period growing up in those years when you're the tallest girl in class?

Ellis Melillo (07:19):

Yes. I was so tall with a unibrow and a palate expander.

Charlie Sandlan (07:26):

The unibrow. I had a unibrow until I was in my early 20s.

Ellis Melillo (07:28):

Yeah, no one told me except for when the meanest boy in school came up to me and asked me why I had one. I was really mad at my mom about that. I ran home. I was like, what the hell? She's like, it's on your face. You can't see that. I think I even had a shirt that had a target on it that I thought was really cool, but I was literally a walking target, and that was fine. I was writing my songs, 700 feet tall, but people didn't really want to be my friend at that point. So I was writing songs about that.

Charlie Sandlan (07:56):

Why the guitar?

Ellis Melillo (07:57):

My older brother played guitar, and I always wanted to be like him. And he was very much into rock and roll at the time, so I was kind of copying him.

Charlie Sandlan (08:07):

Did you take lessons or did you learn on your own?

Ellis Melillo (08:10):

Both, really. I took lessons for a little while, and then I just taught myself the rest of it.

Charlie Sandlan (08:16):

So it was more like a hobby when you were... I guess growing up you would write songs and create some chords. Well, okay, how the hell did you end up at the studio taking the two-year Meisner program?

Ellis Melillo (08:31):

Well, I moved to New York City and I wanted to play at all the bars in New York City. I wrote down five bars that I wanted to play at. It was The Bitter End, Rockwood Music Hall, Arlene's Grocery, two more. I hit all of those goals, but I wrote it down when I moved there, "I'm going to play at all these bars," but you don't make much money doing that. I was going to improv class, and I was bartending at the Coffee Shop in Union Square. And I was making so much money.

(09:02):

I was working during the day so I could play shows at night, but I think I wanted to fit in with the girls at coffee shop, so I would go out with them every single night. Everyone would go to Park Bar, and it was fun for a couple months, but then I was like, okay, I'm literally spending all the money I'm making all day at the bar. I'm not doing anything. I'm not working on my music.

(09:20):

And then it was perfect because I joined your program and I would work from 10:00 to 5:00 and then go to class from 6:00 to 9:00, and it got me back on track to just being creative and disciplined and, well, changed my entire life going to that program.

Charlie Sandlan (09:35):

I just remember seeing this very tall woman who just seemed very sensitive and fragile in a sense. Even though you have an opposing presence, there was a fragility to you emotionally and a shyness to you. What was it like to dig into that kind of work where you're mining these deep emotional wells of rage and heartbreak, silliness and joy?

Ellis Melillo (10:03):

It was hard. I mean, I actually remember because I did your summer program, so you had already seen my work a little bit. Then when I joined the actual program, I still hadn't been able to get angry with anybody because you kept putting me with male partners, and then you put me with Harieth, and I guess I was able to freak out on her.

(10:26):

And I remember in front of everyone, you were like, You need to work on your ability to stand up for yourself when it comes to men. I don't know what to tell you, but figure it out." And then I remember I broke up with my boyfriend of two and a half years a day later.

Charlie Sandlan (10:42):

Yeah, that usually happens in the program, relationships coming to an end. Well, I thought it was very interesting because you did have trouble standing up to a man and having your anger. But as soon as I put you with a woman, it really came to the surface. I thought that was a very important thing to discover about yourself.

Ellis Melillo (10:57):

Yeah, yeah. There was a lot of things that I worked on deeply. It was really hard. I think even a year after the program, I was still reeling from all of it, all the emotion that you go through, and you rip yourself apart and rebuild yourself. But I think it's what helped me write some of my best songs also, being able to understand myself that deeply, even though it's hard to look at yourself that way.

Charlie Sandlan (11:23):

Look at yourself what way?

Ellis Melillo (11:25):

Just see all the ugly sides. I mean, it's rare in your adult life that you really have to fall on your face in front of people. You can avoid that pretty easily, extreme discomfort if you want to. And there were quite a few times in your class where I was really trying and really felt as exposed as I possibly could be, and I just fell on my fucking face. And you learn so much from that. I mean, it's painful.

Charlie Sandlan (11:53):

You mean falling on your face, it was a failure or it didn't go well or something was wrong. You're putting your soul on the line and you're getting criticized for it.

Ellis Melillo (12:04):

Yeah. I mean, how else are you supposed to learn about anything? So I'm really grateful for those moments especially, even though they were painful. I learned so much about myself and how to push myself even harder. Even when you're trying, you can improve.

Charlie Sandlan (12:18):

What did you learn about yourself?

Ellis Melillo (12:20):

What did I learn about myself?

Charlie Sandlan (12:21):

Yeah.

Ellis Melillo (12:22):

Oh God! I mean, I think the standing up to men thing was a really, really important lesson that I had to learn. That was really hard, and I'm still working on that. You learn to become super aware of when you're really in the moment and when you're telling the truth and when you're not, because that's the whole point of acting, obviously. And you can have an outer body experience when that's happening.

(12:48):

When you're not telling the truth and you're not being truthful to people and you're looking someone in the eye and you're not being the person that you know are deep down, I feel like I have this alarm that goes off now where I'm like, hey, come back. It might be hard, but show who you really are. That's helped me in so many moments. I couldn't even look you in the eye when I first joined that program. I remember you would talk to me and I'd be like, "Um." It was so hard. It was painful to just be like that seen.

Charlie Sandlan (13:15):

To be seen. That's really what it is. To steal from Brené Brown, I mean, she talks about that a lot. That's a vulnerability is to be seen by somebody else. And my sense of you was always that the veil was so light that as soon as you just dropped it, this soul, this beautiful soul would just come to the surface there. You just had to own that part of yourself or own you without apology.

Ellis Melillo (13:47):

The confidence, that helped me a lot. The whole program helped me a lot with my confidence as well.

Charlie Sandlan (13:52):

Did you think you lacked confidence? It's interesting because you had these very vivid visions of what you wanted to do, but did you lack confidence in yourself?

Ellis Melillo (14:02):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (14:03):

So how do you marry the two of these very vivid visions of future success and dreams with not feeling confident?

Ellis Melillo (14:11):

I think only recently, and it also happened during going through the program. I think when you're creative at such a young age, you don't really know how to compare yourself to other people, and you just assume that everyone can do what you're doing, had dreams of wanting to be a singer, and songwriting just poured out of me all the time, but I just assumed that was something other people were doing.

(14:38):

I didn't really give myself permission to know that I was talented. I was just like, oh, I hope this works out, but I didn't really feel like I had... Or I guess I was just like, oh, I guess everyone has this. Especially going through the acting school, you realize even just your personality or the way you respond to something or the way you think is important, it's so important, but I didn't really think that way beforehand.

Charlie Sandlan (15:05):

Well, you just said something that I find very, very interesting, and I just want to talk about it. You said I wasn't giving myself permission to say that I was talented, and I just think that that's something that a lot of talented people probably grapple with. Can you just talk about that, what you mean by that?

Ellis Melillo (15:32):

I always wrote songs by myself alone in my room when I was growing up, so I didn't really know how to compare myself to other people. I was just comparing myself to people that were already super successful that I looked up to. I mean, moving to Nashville helped a lot with that, going through acting school helped a lot with that. Because you go through acting school and you're watching people just be themselves and you're like, that is magnificent. You're funny. You're talented.

(16:02):

You're open. And I guess I never really thought of that, and I'm not saying that that's how I was. I'm just saying that I never really thought of being myself as being a talent or having just what I had to offer as being a talent. You think of when you go through acting school that you're supposed to act like somebody else because that's going to be more impressive, but you're supposed to be yourself and be as vulnerable as you can be. And that's in a sense what your talent is.

(16:33):

And then when I moved to Nashville, I started writing with all these other people, and they would just give themselves permission all the time. I would walk into a writing room and be so quiet. I would be working with people that had been doing it for years, and they'd be like, "I was just driving my truck and this girl with the blue dress on came to my head with this melody." They would just say it out loud so freely, and everyone in the room would just be like, "Okay, let's write that. Let's do that. Why not?"

(16:57):

And I would be like, "Well, I have ideas like that all the time. I have melodies that come into my head all the time." Words come into my head all the time, but I never really allow myself to just be like, oh, that could be an amazing song. Because I don't know, I was like, well, if it just comes up freely to me, that can't possibly be something that's worth anything, but it is because everyone's brains work differently.

Charlie Sandlan (17:21):

Yeah, of course. So how do you write? I mean, do you think in poetry? Do you think in terms of a particular person or a circumstance that's happened to you, or are you just free write? I mean, what's your artistic process?

Ellis Melillo (17:36):

Sometimes it'll just be a random... A lot of the times it's melody and words at the same time that come to me, and then I'll just have to take out my phone and record something or write down really quickly. Here in Nashville, songwriting works a lot differently because you're writing with other people. You've got four hours allotted time because people could be going out on tour, you won't be seeing them again.

(17:58):

So you have to come in with an idea, be as open as you possibly can be, but it is. It's like Improv, you can only be so prepared. You sit down and you talk about what you want to write about, and then you get about four hours to get that song done. But when I write by myself, I mean, songs have taken me 10 years, songs have taken me three hours. It depends.

Charlie Sandlan (18:20):

A song that takes 10 years.

Ellis Melillo (18:22):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (18:23):

What's that process? Creatively, why does it take sometimes that long to finish something?

Ellis Melillo (18:34):

You can come up with a melody and an idea that you just don't feel like it's deep enough. And I don't know, sometimes it's really weird, but I have premonitions or something. A lot of songs that I write, I write them and I have no idea why I wrote them. Six months later, exactly what I wrote is what's happening in my life. And it's very odd. I don't know why.

(18:56):

So a song could take that long because maybe I'll write something and not relate to it and not know how to finish it. And then I'll go through something in my life and I'm like, wow, word for word, this is exactly what I wrote. So now I can finish this song. I don't know. It's odd.

Charlie Sandlan (19:10):

Do you keep a journal? Is it diary entries? What do you do?

Ellis Melillo (19:16):

Yeah, it's diary entries. I mean, anytime I'm writing a song, I'm always rhyming. It always comes to me in rhymes for the most part. Even when I write in my journal, it kind of is always rhymes. I don't know why. That's just how I always think.

Charlie Sandlan (19:33):

Well, I mean, you do kind of have to rhyme in music a little bit is important.

Ellis Melillo (19:38):

Yeah, that's true.

Charlie Sandlan (19:40):

So you said you get to Nashville and you're collaborating with other songwriters. How does that work? I mean, are these friends or these people that are under a particular label? Do you just get together and start riffing on possible material?

Ellis Melillo (19:55):

Yeah. When I moved to Nashville, it was 2021 of the pandemic. I was living on The Hamptons with my boyfriend. I broke up with him and I was living in New York in my apartment, and I was just like, I couldn't perform. I couldn't do anything. I didn't know a single person in Nashville, and I had never been there before.

Charlie Sandlan (20:21):

Did you just pick a spot on the map? You're like, Nashville music, I'm going.

Ellis Melillo (20:28):

Yeah. I worked with Zac. So basically Zac and I had worked together in 2020. I went down to his house and we were going to make this whole album, and I was so excited. I was like, all my dreams are going true. And then he's the busiest man on earth, and the pandemic was still going on. He was making a whole new album, and it just went radio silent. So for six months I was in New York alone getting over my breakup. And I was like, I need a change of scenery.

(21:00):

I can't just wait for somebody to make everything happen for me. I need to go do something. And during that time, I was probably the most depressed I'd ever been, but I would go on these walks every day and listening to these meditations and really hone in on what I wanted because nothing seemed to be going. I had hit a point where I was like, wow, so I didn't figure it out. I have had these dreams forever. I really didn't get it right. The worst feeling I've ever had on earth.

Charlie Sandlan (21:30):

Every choice I've made up to this point has just led me to just nowhere.

Ellis Melillo (21:34):

Yeah, literally nothing. The whole world would shut down. Yeah, it was awful.

Charlie Sandlan (21:40):

But I'm telling you, a lot of people feel that way. I mean, what you're talking about here and I think what any real creative person is going to go through, at some point, you're just going to feel like, "I've blown it. This is not for me. My life's going nowhere."

Ellis Melillo (21:52):

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I hope people don't have to feel that way, but I can tell you that it can get better.

Charlie Sandlan (22:00):

It can. I think you saying I'm not going to sit around and wait is the key thing to latch onto. I'm not going to wait. I've got to get proactive.

Ellis Melillo (22:08):

Yeah, and I truly stand by that because it was as low as I could possibly get in my entire life. Nothing was going anywhere for me.

Charlie Sandlan (22:20):

So we're talking relationship, career, money, you name it.

Ellis Melillo (22:24):

Yeah, broke as hell. It was dark. I just remembered I would spend an hour and a half every day listening to these meditations, walking, picturing this white light sort of like where I wanted everything to be. So it was very specific in front of me. And I had all these daydreams, because you taught us how important daydreaming was. I was like, even though nothing's working out, I could at least daydream about it. But that's manifestation in its own right.

(22:53):

Just one day I was like, I'm out of here. I found a random place to move into. Didn't know a single person at all. I got here and was freaking out. I mean, my mom came down here with me to help me move, and I've stood in the shower for 45 minutes with my head against the wall. What the hell did you do? She was like, let's go get a margarita on Broadway. I was like, I don't have a toothbrush or a friend or a direction.

Charlie Sandlan (23:21):

What a leap of faith. I talk a lot about rolling the dice on yourself and you did, you rolled the fucking dice.

Ellis Melillo (23:29):

Yeah. And I think when you take a risk like that, and I felt that before I moved, if you really do just jump headfirst, the universe will help you out. But you have to take a risk. You have to literally be willing to put everything on the line and just know that it's going to work out. You don't know how, but it'll work its way out. And when I got here, I felt like a completely different...

(23:54):

I moved to a different energy plane. Things just fell into place. I would go out to a bar and randomly meet this person that writes for this thing and works with this person. And years and years of work fast forwarded in a month.

Charlie Sandlan (24:10):

Well, I mean, for a musician to go to Nashville, it's like an actor going to LA, so you're going to meet musicians and writers. All right, so how do you go from moving to a city where you don't know anybody, you're at rock bottom in many ways... How long ago was that? How many years ago?

Ellis Melillo (24:28):

April 1st, 2021, so it was a year and a half ago.

Charlie Sandlan (24:30):

So I mean, fuck, Ellis, you're talking April 1st of 2021 and where you are now.

Ellis Melillo (24:38):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (24:38):

When did things start to change? What was there one moment where you're like, oh, I think I made the right decision here?

Ellis Melillo (24:44):

I was sitting on my couch seven days in and I was just like, oh my God, I don't have any fucking friends. This is awful. I don't even have anyone to talk to. And my friend Brett, before I moved down, he lives in New York, he knew one guy that lived here. And he was like, "Why don't you reach out to him?" And he was a well-known photographer. I was like, this man's not going to answer me. But I DMed him and I was like, "Hi, I don't have any friends. It looks like you do. Can we hang out?" And he was like, "Yeah, come..."

Charlie Sandlan (25:13):

You're so popular. Will you be my friend?

Ellis Melillo (25:16):

Well, he worked with all these musicians. He had a big following. He's not going to see my DM. Whatever. And he did weirdly. And he answered me that day and he was like, "Why don't you come to the show tonight? All my friends are going to be there." And I was freaking out. But I showed up by myself. And when I walked in, the girl that had opened for the Zac Brown Band when I was 15 was singing on stage.

(25:41):

And I used to cover her music all the time. And I remember I went to the bathroom after she was done, and I bumped into her in the bathroom. "Oh my God, Sonia, I love you. I used to cover your music all the time," which is really funny because I'm actually writing with her Friday morning this week.

Charlie Sandlan (25:57):

Talk about just coming full circle. The way the universe just sets things up.

Ellis Melillo (26:03):

So it was just moments like that where it was like...

Charlie Sandlan (26:05):

What did she say when you said that to her?

Ellis Melillo (26:07):

She was like, "That's amazing." She was stoked, but it was weird because I kept bumping into her and then we ended up having beautiful friends and working with the same people. I don't know, everything just started to fall into place and go smoothly.

Charlie Sandlan (26:21):

Right. Well, how long did it take for you to feel like you had a community? You were like, "You know what? I'm okay. I've got friends. I've got a network." How long did that take to feel that way?

Ellis Melillo (26:33):

Not long. Two weeks in, I had luckily gotten lunch with this songwriter that I had admired my entire life, and I just asked if he would get coffee with me. I thought he would just give me advice. I never thought he would actually write with me. And we ended up writing together the next month, and then he really liked what I was doing, so he opened up a whole world to me of songwriters that were at a level that were untouchable to me. And then they liked what I was doing, so then they...

(27:06):

It's such a small town here and everyone is so willing to help each other out, which is surprising. You would think it would be more cutthroat because everyone's trying to do the same thing. But I think everyone realizes if someone wins, you all win. Especially if you're writing on somebody else's album and they do well, it works out for you. And so in that sense, after a couple months, I felt like I was getting dialed into all of the people that I really admired and I wanted to work with.

Charlie Sandlan (27:39):

Your EP, Cry Wolf, it's your first release?

Ellis Melillo (27:44):

It is. I had released songs over the years, but not a full thing like that.

Charlie Sandlan (27:45):

All right. Did that all come together in Nashville, or were you pulling out some stuff that you wrote years ago? Talk about your EP.

Ellis Melillo (27:57):

Yeah, I got to do that with Zac, which was sick. Right before I moved to Nashville in 2019, he had invited my dad backstage, his concert at Jones Beach. And I was singing every single day that summer out in The Hamptons. And that was the one day my show was canceled. And my dad was like, "Why don't you come with me? Your mom just decided she didn't want to go." So it was kind of really serendipitous in that way. And Zac had met me when I was like 15 because him and my dad had done some work together, but I hadn't seen him in years.

(28:27):

And so he was like, "I remember you were a singer. Are you still doing that?"And I was like, "Yes," and he was like, "Why don't you email me your music?" And I never thought that he would actually listen to it. And so I got my music together and I sent it to him and he really liked it. But then the pandemic hit and we worked together a tiny bit, and that all fell apart. So fast forward, I moved to Nashville and I started working with all these different artists.

(28:50):

Penny Lane was the last song that I wrote right before I moved to Nashville. That was when I was in my really darkest, darkest place I wrote that song.

Charlie Sandlan (28:58):

And it's a beautiful song. Isn't it interesting? Good artists can take their pain and channel it into some really beautiful stuff.

Ellis Melillo (29:07):

It's surreal that I got to record that in the studio. Because the place I was in when I wrote that, I was visiting my parents because I was so depressed. I was staying in my childhood bedroom, and that's where I wrote that song. I was thinking about all of these women who in their own right were strong. Penny Lane, her strength was in her vulnerability. Cleopatra, her strength was like she was just a badass, cutthroat woman. And Marilyn, who you let me play in acting school, which made me very connected to her, she was super strong by just being this soft...

(29:38):

Her softness was her strength and it was secret and it crept up. So all of these women that figured it out in their own way that I just wanted a little piece of. I was like, if I could just figure it out like her or like her, any one of them, if I could put that all together, I would find a way. At the time, it wasn't even about leaving a relationship, I just weaved it into that. But it's very odd because something I went through very, very recently, like I said, premonition wise is so beyond accurate.

(30:11):

So it was like I wrote that right before I went through this whole thing also and released that song right after I went through it. So that was therapeutic and kind of weird. So I moved here and Zac and I had talked about making that album six months beforehand. And then I was here for another six months and I was like, okay, I haven't spoken to Zac about this. He's so busy. He's making his own album. But I'm here, I'm writing every day with as many people as I possibly could.

(30:41):

I was just trying to meet everyone. There's different groups of people in this town, people that are really country, people that are Americana, indie, all of those things, and I was getting a taste of all of those people. And they all ended up on the album, which is why it's so eclectic. I ended up sending Favor Blue actually to Zac because I had been sending him music one day. He was like, "All right. Fuck yeah, let's do it."

(31:05):

I was over-prepared and it made it a lot easier to get the whole project done. And then, yeah, Zac, I mean, he's just an absolute badass and has become a really, really great mentor towards me.

Charlie Sandlan (31:17):

What has he taught you?

Ellis Melillo (31:19):

I don't think there's anyone that has done more for me and been more of a protector in my life besides my immediate family. Beyond grateful. I mean, he's a crazy businessman and I didn't really know anything about that before getting to work with him. So just even on the business side of things has taught me how to stand up for myself in so many ways.

(31:42):

Music wise, I mean, he is someone that considered country, but he works with so many different artists. Put out his own pop album and does rock and everything like that. So with that too, and I think he allowed me to be that way on my EP was to show all different sides of myself and not have to be put in a box because there's no rules. You can do whatever you want.

Charlie Sandlan (32:04):

Well, there are a lot of actors that don't like to watch themselves. What's it like to sit and listen to your album, listen to your music, and to go, "I fucking did this."

Ellis Melillo (32:14):

I hate watching myself so much. I hate it. I literally hate it more than anything in the whole world.

Charlie Sandlan (32:23):

You shot videos. You shot that Penny Lane video. What was the concept behind it? You're sitting on this bed. It's draped in silk sheets, and you're in this negligee. Are you just writing the song? That's how I took it. We're watching you write this song.

Ellis Melillo (32:40):

Yeah. My friend Shay, she's an absolute badass, Shay Jones. She helped me with all of that, which was also just a weird thing that happened. Kind of just looked like what my actual bedroom looked like when I wrote it. When we filmed it, I was going through an actual breakup, unfortunately. I definitely honed my acting skills for those crying parts.

Charlie Sandlan (33:02):

Listen, I saw it. I was like, she's alive. She's got something going on.

Ellis Melillo (33:06):

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can thank you for that for sure.

Charlie Sandlan (33:12):

Would you sing Penny Lane?

Ellis Melillo (33:16):

Yes, I would love to.

Charlie Sandlan (33:17):

You would? Really?

Ellis Melillo (33:17):

I will. Yes.

Charlie Sandlan (33:19):

I know I didn't prepare you for that. I didn't say that beforehand. So I probably just threw you for a loop, but you really will?

Ellis Melillo (33:28):

Yes. Why not?

Charlie Sandlan (33:30):

Okay, I love it. Well, this is Penny Lane.

Ellis Melillo (33:34):

This is put me on the spot.

Charlie Sandlan (33:34):

This is the first song off of Ellis' EP, Cry Wolf.

Ellis Melillo (33:39):

[Singing 00:33:41]

Charlie Sandlan (37:01):

It's a beautiful song.

Ellis Melillo (37:06):

Thank you.

Charlie Sandlan (37:10):

You have a great voice.

Ellis Melillo (37:11):

Thanks, Charlie.

Charlie Sandlan (37:11):

Thank you for doing that.

Ellis Melillo (37:13):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (37:15):

Well, now what? It's out and what's been the response and what's next? What does one do when they release an EP?

Ellis Melillo (37:24):

I don't know. I mean, it's a lot of buildup. So it is weird. After you release something, you're like, what am I supposed to be doing? Because all day long, I feel like I was, especially getting prepared to go out on tour with Zac while the EP was coming out, it was a really, really stressful time, so I'm trying to calm down a little bit. But I mean, I'm playing a show tonight.

(37:47):

I'm playing a bunch of shows in Nashville and New York and all over the place, which is great promoting that music, but I already have quite a few more songs that are ready to be released and already have another video in the works.

Charlie Sandlan (38:03):

Are you going to do a full album?

Ellis Melillo (38:03):

Yeah, I think I'm going to release a couple singles first, and then I have a whole body of work that's really important to me, songs that I wrote before I moved, a couple songs I wrote during acting school that I love. I had to work them out a little bit. And then a lot of songs I wrote here that I think kind of all make sense together. So I think I'll put that out as an album after I release a couple of singles.

Charlie Sandlan (38:28):

So how do you like this life you've got now?

Ellis Melillo (38:31):

It's pretty good. I mean, I don't know. It's a funny thing. I asked Zac this question before everything happened, and I asked one of his songwriters, Ben, the same thing. But I was like, well, is there ever a point that you reach where you're kind of just like, okay, I figured it out. I can breathe a little bit. And now from now on my life will be so happy because I got to a certain point or whatever. You never get to that point. There's always a new point you're trying to get to.

(39:05):

I feel really, really happy that I did some things that I really wanted to do, but I'm always just like, what's next? I feel really good because I try to check in and be like, okay, as a little girl, how would you feel? And in that sense, I'm kinder to myself when I think from that standpoint, but I definitely already have a lot of pressure on myself to make all my next dreams come true that I have on my race board.

Charlie Sandlan (39:42):

You have a board, a literal board?

Ellis Melillo (39:43):

I have a dry erase board.

Charlie Sandlan (39:43):

You do?

Ellis Melillo (39:43):

Yeah, yeah. It's like goals for 2023. I've checked off quite a few of them, but there's a lot more.

Charlie Sandlan (39:51):

What's the key to setting goals and seeing them through? Do you have a bit of advice on how one does that because you seem to be checking a lot of shit off, Ellis?

Ellis Melillo (40:03):

I mean, my dad taught me that if you can see something really vividly, and I guess that's also what your motto was, you want to be vivid. If you can daydream on something really vividly and it always comes back to you, there are dreams that I have had that I don't think are an accident. If you can see something that clearly over and over again, it's kind of like the universe being like, this could very much be yours, but you have to live in that moment.

(40:30):

You have to feel what the feeling is before you even feel like you're allowed to feel that feeling, which I think in acting school why happiness is low-key the hardest thing to express. And I had so much trouble with that during acting school because I was like, I'm not allowed to be happy. I haven't done anything that would make me be allowed to feel happy.

Charlie Sandlan (40:52):

Isn't it interesting how we even phrase that, like I'm not allowed, I haven't earned the right yet to be happy about anything?

Ellis Melillo (41:00):

But that's how it felt when I was in that really dark place and I was meditating all the time. I was letting myself feel like what it would feel like to stand on that stage, to hear the crowd, what it would feel like in my stomach even and put yourself in that moment and it works.

Charlie Sandlan (41:17):

Well, let me ask you this, the vision and the vividness of the daydream of being on that stage at Jones Beach, how did that compare to the literal experience of doing it? Was there anything different or things you didn't expect, or was it just as you had thought it would be?

Ellis Melillo (41:40):

It was just how I thought it would be, but instead of me... Because every time I would daydream on that, it would be like, ugh, it would almost hurt. I was like, God, I want that so bad. And then it would be like me standing there and I'm like, oh, but when I'm there and I'll take it in. And I think I was oddly prepared for the moment because I had put myself there mentally so many times that when I was actually there, I was like, yep, this is just about right.

Charlie Sandlan (42:07):

I think that's what a lot of great artists, great athletes, they talk about this because they had put themselves in that situation so many times in such a vivid way that when it finally happens, I've been here. I've been waiting for this, I'm ready.

Ellis Melillo (42:21):

Yeah, that's exactly how it felt.

Charlie Sandlan (42:24):

That's incredible.

Ellis Melillo (42:25):

Thanks.

Charlie Sandlan (42:26):

Well, I'm so glad you came on. I know I said this to you before we started recording, I'm really proud of you.

Ellis Melillo (42:33):

Thank you.

Charlie Sandlan (42:34):

And I'm excited about what lies ahead for you because you've got really something to offer and contribute to the world, and you've got a great voice.

Ellis Melillo (42:42):

Thank you, Charlie.

Charlie Sandlan (42:43):

And you're a serious artist and you're earning everything that you've accomplished. So let's get out on this.

Ellis Melillo (42:50):

Okay.

Charlie Sandlan (42:52):

Living a creative life, looking back at that kid who was writing songs in their bedroom and where you are now, what would you say to somebody who also has a dream of being creative and contributing something? What are some thoughts you'd want to share?

Ellis Melillo (43:14):

I think I would just say having a specific dream is never a mistake. It's there in your mind on purpose. You're given a gift on purpose, and it's your job to share that with the world. You're talented because you know are deep down. I think I'd just tell anybody, like I said, I was not giving myself permission to know that I was talented.

(43:39):

I wanted all of these things that I was like, well, what makes me special? Knowing that you're special is what makes you special. Knowing that you have a talent, sharing it with the world, people will be so lucky to hear your gift. So I want younger kids to tell themselves that. I should have told myself that earlier.

Charlie Sandlan (44:01):

Well, my fellow daydreamers, thank you for sticking around and keeping that phone in your pocket. Please listen to Ellis Melillo's EP Cry Wolf. You can get it wherever you listen to your music. You can also follow her on Instagram @VelvetEllis_. You can write a review for this show. If you've got a few moments, go to iTunes and leave a written review. I'd really appreciate that. Spread the word. Tell your friends about Creating Behavior. You can also go to https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com.

(44:27):

Go to that contact page, hit the red button. I use SpeakPipe. Leave me a message, ask me a question, share with me some of your thoughts. You can also go to https://www.maggieflaniganstudio.com if you are interested in studying with me. You can follow me on Instagram @creatingbehavior, @maggieflanaganstudio. Lawrence Trailer, thank you for the music, my man. My friends, stay resilient, play full out with yourself, and don't ever settle for your second best. My name is Charlie Sandlan. Peace.