092 Answering an Important Question

At some point you'll have to ask yourself, do you just love acting, or do you love pursuing a professional acting career?  This week Charlie has a conversation with his former student Isha Blaaker, who has answered this question. Isha talks about what he learned working with Tyler Perry, and his incredible experience bringing to life Allison Davis in Ava DuVernay's newest film Origin, based on the acclaimed book Caste, by Isabel Wilkerson. Charlie and Isha also discuss how to manage nerves, how to handle emotional material, and the invaluable insights you can only learn on a set. It's a wide ranging and inspiring conversation on what it takes to live the life of a professional actor. You can follow CBP on Instagram @creatingbehavior, and Charlie's NYC acting conservatory, the Maggie Flanigan Studio @maggieflaniganstudio. Theme music by  https://www.thelawrencetrailer.com. For written transcripts, to leave a voicemail on SpeakPipe, or contact Charlie for private coaching, check out https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com

Transcript

Charlie Sandlan (00:03):

I think at some point in every actor's journey, you're going to be forced to answer a question. Now, I think this is also true in any art form, but for the actor, at some point you're going to have to ask yourself, do I just love acting or do I really love pursuing a professional acting career? And I will tell you those are two completely different things. And if the answer is yes, you got a shot. If you just love acting, ah, I don't know. You'll probably be doing something else with your life at some point.

(00:34):

Well, today we're going to talk to my former student, Isha Blaaker. He's answered this question for himself. We're going to talk about his journey, his decision to start to seriously train with me at the Maggie Flanigan Studio and what's happened since he's gotten out. We're going to talk about what he's learned from Tyler Perry, what he's learned from Ava DuVernay and some things he's learned about being a professional actor, how to manage your nerves, how to handle emotionally demanding scenes and how he plays against type. It's a great conversation, my friend, so put the phone back in your pocket. Creating behavior starts now.

(01:24):

Well, hello my fellow daydreamers. Yeah, I think it's an important question you're going to have to ask yourself if you're really interested in pursuing acting for a living, because it's a big leap from saying, "I just love acting and I enjoy it," to having the backbone and the grit and the resilience to be able to actually pursue a career. Those of you that are out there, you know what you've got to navigate, the sacrifices you have to make. It's hard. And if you answer yes, then fuck man, you've got to really go after it. You've got to be persistent. And I think it really starts with seriously training. I've been saying this for four years now to all of you. You got to seriously train, and that's why I have such a tremendous amount of respect for Isha.

(02:47):

Isha is blessed with incredible looks. That alone is enough to kind of get you in the door. There are a lot of models that make a transition to acting and they end up on Hallmark movies, Lifetime television movies. They can carve out a career, but they're not really actors. They don't really seriously train. They're just cashing in and banking on their looks, and that's really all they want, and that's fine. There are a lot of actors out there like that. But then you have someone like Isha who is a real artist and understood, and understands how important training was.

(03:36):

Now this is a guy who travels all over the world. I mean, he's an international booked model, so it's very hard for him to be able to stay in one place for an extended period of time and train. And the thing about the Meisner technique, certainly my program, you have to be there. You have to be there. You have to be in person. You have to be able to commit and do the work. So when the pandemic hit and I had to go online for two years, Isha saw an opportunity. He's like, "I can do this. I can take this class from anywhere in the world." And he did. This guy busted his ass, he was able to maintain his career as a model and started to really put together a solid way of working, and now it's paying off.

(04:29):

We're going to talk about kind of the trajectory of his career since he got out of school. He had a nice break with a couple episodes of The Flight Attendant where he got to work with Kaley Cuoco. Learned a hell of a lot on that set, a really great recurring role, a nice arc in Fear The Walking Dead where he got to live through some very deep emotional things. He's going to share about the process of being on a set with some seriously emotionally demanding material and how it feels when you find out that some of the deepest, most painful work that you can do as an actor doesn't make it in the final cut. And what he's learned from Tyler Perry, he was in Madea's Homecoming. That's a franchise all in to itself. Tyler Perry is one of the most powerful people in show business. So to be able to be on a set with him to watch how he works, how he conducts a set, invaluable. He's going to talk about that and what he's learned from Ava DuVernay.

(05:37):

Isha is part of the incredible ensemble cast of her latest film, Origin. It's based off the book by Isabel Wilkerson called Caste. I've actually spoken about it a number of times on this show because it was such an important book for me. The book, Caste, it really looks at racism in this country through the lens of the Indian caste system. It's a fascinating read, and the fact that it's been turned into a film is very exciting. I can't wait to see it. It stars Jon Bernthal, Niecy Nash, Audra McDonald, Blair Underwood, Connie Nielsen, and Isha, who plays Allison Davis, who was a real person, African American in the early part of the 20th century, who became a very accomplished anthropologist, a writer, researcher, scholar, teacher. In the 1940s, he was the second African-American to hold a full faculty position at a major white university, and this was the University of Chicago in the 1940s, a very accomplished life, and it's incredible that Isha gets to bring his story to the screen.

(06:53):

So at the top of the conversation, I asked Isha what was going on in his life and what made him decide to start to study with me, and we'll take the conversation from there. Here is my former student, Isha Blaaker.

Isha Blaaker (07:10):

I study in a different place. I always wanted to study Meisner, but the problem with the program is that there's mandatory attendance.

Charlie Sandlan (07:28):

Yeah. You kind of have to be there.

Isha Blaaker (07:28):

And the other place, it's very interesting because the other place that I studied at was everything is individual and it's about how often you come and you have to be there. So that was a bit of an issue, but in a lot of ways with the complete opposite of what you teach, Meisner program. So I always wanted to study it because I felt like it's going to be a hole in my game if I don't get at this at some point. All the training before I had was like, okay, preparational and character and emotional, blah, blah, blah. But never would you do once you get onto stage and you meet the other actor. And I felt like that was very much the focal point of the Meisner program. Because it was online during the pandemic, I was blessed enough to be able to do it, and I said, "Hey, I want to do this."

(08:22):

I can honestly say, and I'm not just saying that because it's you or whatever, that I don't think I've worked harder on anything in my life than during those two years than how I worked on acting. With all the other things that came to it as well, because it wasn't just the program. When I started, a manager reached out because they saw me on The Flight Attendant, and then that whole conversation came and then a different manager came on board, Lisa Zusman from Title, and she doubled the amount of auditions that I had.

(09:02):

So I was auditioning ... No, I got three to five auditions a week usually, and I couldn't do all of them. It was usually three of them. So it was that, it was the program, outside of the program, you have to meet with your buddy twice as well, your scene partner. I was still taking classes at the other studio because they gave you feedback on your auditions. There was the scene study class with you, sorry, at Maggie Flanigan. Yeah, there were a bunch of things. It was just a lot and I think I had maybe a Saturday off once a month. I took Fridays off every now and then, but it was killing and I had to fly for jobs to Europe. I remember sometimes just falling asleep.

Charlie Sandlan (09:49):

Yeah, I never knew where in the world you would be from time to time when you came into class. Well, so you're working now, you know what I mean, you're in the game. What did all of that hard work, what's it done for you now when you approach material and start breaking down scripts and getting on a set? What will that do for you?

Isha Blaaker (10:13):

I'm very happy that it's not just two years and then afterwards I go, I don't know. I learned something. It's somewhere inside it. I can exactly tell you out of those two years, apart from the overall learning and growing, that there are a bunch of things that I use till this day. The actions, the way you teach them, I think there's different ways to go about it, but the way you teach them, it still helps me to understand scripts. I can see now when I didn't prepare it or when another actor doesn't use it or I just say the lines, but sometimes you can't understand what they're saying or you don't hear it for whatever reason. But if they've worked out the actions, you still understand what's happening. And it's very interesting when you see that.

(11:02):

The listening and responding, I think the difficult thing is that kind of grows on you through the two years. It's not like a thing you can really do in preparation or whatever. It's like a skill that lives underneath, but what I walked away from is like, okay, cool. I need to be aware of this constantly. I might not do it, I might do it, but I have to stay aware of this. And you start noticing other people that do it very well. I started improv classes now because I feel like after having learned what that really is, listening and responding, the fun thing about improv is that immediately know when you're doing it and when you're not doing it, because there's no preparation whatsoever. So that's a lot of fun.

Charlie Sandlan (11:52):

All right, so your first time on set was Flight Attendant. Was that the first real serious onset work?

Isha Blaaker (12:01):

In America. Before that in The Netherlands.

Charlie Sandlan (12:05):

What were the big things you took away from being on a set like that?

Isha Blaaker (12:08):

You very quickly learned that there are things you only learn on set and there are things you only learn in an acting class and you need both.

Charlie Sandlan (12:16):

No, I mean, that's an interesting thing to say.

Isha Blaaker (12:18):

What you prepare is never going to be there. You prepare for a scene and I don't know, you're going to sit at a table across from the other character and you're going to do such and such and say it to them in a certain way, and then you arrive and then you're not sitting across from them. You're sitting next to them or they're saying it in a different way. There was one scene that we did on one of the recent projects where there was another character that would come and say, "Oh, watch out. You're in grave "danger. Get away from me here right now or else you're going to die. And we were like, "Oh no, that's crazy." What is it? He's like, "Okay, you know what? I'll show you." The actor came and he was like, "You really have to watch out. Something dangerous is going to happen." If you then go, "No. Where?" You're ... Doing what you prepared. You have to listen and go like, "Wait, what? Oh, I don't know. What is that? Well, okay, cool. I'll show you."

(13:16):

And those things, camera angles, if your face is not anywhere towards where they're filming, your stuff is not being used. If your voice doesn't come out, they don't hear you. If you make noise while you move or say things, then they can't use what you're saying. Stuff like that. How to relax. If you're a day player or you have two episodes, it's not about your acting, it's about managing your nerves. That's the biggest thing you're doing because the more you can manage your nerves, the more your homework shows up and you can be relaxed, but that's probably going to be your biggest enemy, your nerves, the things like that. Preparing for an audition is different than preparing for a role.

Charlie Sandlan (14:00):

In what way? How are they different for you?

Isha Blaaker (14:03):

You get to do a million takes. You can do one take. Whatever you want. The other person doesn't make any mistakes. You have a perfect reader. They read it exactly how you want them to read it. They don't make any mistakes. They say all the lines. You get to play around with it, do it differently on set. If they get the master shot after that, you can't change it too much.

Charlie Sandlan (14:26):

Yeah, because really when you're shooting whatever you're doing in the master shot, you have to keep that consistent with all of the other camera angles.

Isha Blaaker (14:35):

Yeah. You can change, but that means they're going to edit around you and it might be difficult to get your thing as well as you performed it. Sometimes in the beginning, people kind of steal your scene, so you get on set and you think, okay, we're going to act. No, they're going to block it first and discuss it, and some of your lines might disappear. If you're nervous and you forget a line and that line is gone and they shoot it and the master, you lost your line. Things like that, especially when you're on set with a bigger actor, you have to be very present.

Charlie Sandlan (15:15):

Yeah. I mean, I would think they're not going to stop and worry about you. They're worried about the one, two, three, four, five on the call sheet.

Isha Blaaker (15:23):

So in other words, you need to know your lines and that's another thing. You're there to do a job. They're there to give a performance and, I don't know, do what they have to do or got to do, whatever. You are there to say your lines do a job. If you happen to do good acting next to that, great. Yep, thank you. But yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (15:42):

Yeah. That's difficult. That's why in first year I just hammered you guys to memorize your fucking lines. Nothing's going to fuck you more than showing up on a set and feeling insecure about knowing your lines because you will forget them, but you'll go up.

Isha Blaaker (15:58):

There was a point in class where I kept forgetting my lines and I didn't know what it was. It was during a scene and you went off on me and then ...

Charlie Sandlan (16:07):

I went off. Yeah, okay, that sounds about right.

Isha Blaaker (16:13):

And rightfully so. I learned that. I thought I knew my lines, but you also have to know them emotionally. I think if somebody changes a little bit or says a sentence differently, whether it was the other person or it's you, especially in a play, the whole thing is off and now you are trying to find wherever you're at in your brain in a movie script or a script for a series has things in it that happen, it's easier. But if something's off, the whole thing now is off and I learned that I to cut up the lines and kind of use them as cue cards so that I know that this line follows that line. And if you were to wake me up in the middle of the night or if you were to skip five lines, then I know, okay, cool, this one comes after that one and I can help myself find it back, but I have to find that by messing up.

Charlie Sandlan (17:03):

Yeah, I think everybody ultimately has their own way of memorizing lines. That's a good one. I mean, it doesn't matter how you do it, as long as you show up ready to fucking go. You just don't want to be the problem ever.

Isha Blaaker (17:16):

Yeah, I remember I was the problem one day on set, I like to prepare a lot as much as I can, and I felt like I was prepared, but then there was an audition over the weekend, so I had done all my preparatory work, but then you got to drill the lines before the actual day. I did my audition. I was like, cool, it's a small scene, I just need to drill it the night before. But then perfectionism comes into it and you might do the audition as good as you can, and then it's getting later and later on a Sunday. Now you don't want to say, okay, skip the audition because you put in so much work and it's a nice role and then there's less and less time to study your lines for that scene. And then in the end it becomes, okay, cool, am I going to sleep less and study all night, but maybe not be all there the next day or am I going to get up early in the morning? Okay, cool, I'll get up early, get enough sleep. There's enough time before we actually start filming.

(18:14):

Okay, but now you get up, now there's pressure. You have to get ready. You get picked up. Okay, cool. You know what? There's the car ride, the car ride. It was upstate. It was a, I don't know, 30, 45 minute car ride, but as you get closer to set, more and more pressure starts setting in, so your brain starts doing less and less work, so it becomes harder and harder and harder. And this is where your work starts trickling, it starts crumbling in front of you and then you get on set and then you're there with a series regular who shoots every day, walks into the same makeup room and goes, "Oh my God, I don't know my lines for today."

(18:57):

And you're like, oh God, I've been stressing since yesterday night trying to get these couple lines in. This person shoots every day, looks at the sheet and then goes, "Okay, cool, got it." Then you get the set and this person nails their scene and you're struggling with your pressure and all that, and it's just like, oh my God, I want to shoot myself. And then people on set start mocking you and it's a whole thing.

Charlie Sandlan (19:28):

Did they have to call cut because of you and reset?

Isha Blaaker (19:32):

There was actually a lot happening on set that day and I started blaming everything on myself subconsciously. Consciously, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, relax. It's not your fault. Relax. Just study your lines. And then something that would've taken you maybe five minutes to get down, especially on the day off because now you're doing it and shooting it over and over, takes you like an hour. You feel like you have no friends on set and the person that's always nice to you, there's always one person super nice to you when you come in, that person is now your best friend, your anchor, and it's just one of those days where you're like, oh, never again.

Charlie Sandlan (20:13):

Well, it's interesting what you said about as you get closer, the anxiety and the nerves just corrupt your ability to be able to do anything that's really focused because you're so unnerved.

Isha Blaaker (20:29):

Yeah. And those are things you learn. It's a performance and you learn to have respect for any actor that works because regardless of what you think or don't think about their skills or their work, they are working. They solved some kind of mathematical problem on how to get into the industry and they're doing it and they have to deal with all these things and some have to deal with fame and all that, and it all takes away from your performance. And they work every day, they have families, they're away from their families, and it just gives you so much more respect for people that do it like that.

Charlie Sandlan (21:09):

You've been working for a couple of years, but you have a very eclectic group of projects. I mean Tyler Perry film, to do a Madea film, to do Fear The Walking Dead. They're completely different genres. To do serious stuff, to do comic stuff. Well, what's different about those two environments and what's similar, if there are any, from doing comedy and doing something that's really serious and dark?

Isha Blaaker (21:38):

The audition for Madea, I didn't know it was Madea. I just knew it was a Tyler Perry project, but the scenes were beautiful. I was proposing to someone.

Charlie Sandlan (21:46):

Yeah, it's like an independent activity in the first year, doing those proposals?

Isha Blaaker (21:52):

Yeah. And I had a fight with my best friend and all that, and somebody came out, and so the scenes were very beautiful and there was an accident involved and Fear The Walking Dead, I got to play a gay character, speak German, had an accent, had a great actor that I could play opposite, Colman Domingo. So those things were great. And it's funny you say that these are eclectic projects because I tried to look for characters that make me change and step away from whatever my typecast would be. And evidently you still book your typecast, but then you got to play against it. You got to book it first and then play against it. And then over time they're like, "Oh, cool. He doesn't just play one thing."

Charlie Sandlan (22:39):

Yeah. I like how you said that. You book it, you embrace the way they see you. But then when you're working on the script, you're going to make choices that go against your type.

Isha Blaaker (22:51):

In the beginning, you book a part where you're, in my case, you're booked as the love interest or the Mr. Suave or whatever. Cool. You book it and then you play it as much as you can in a different way or in your own way, but you can only do it so much. And as you go on, the next part is a bit further away and you play it a bit more your own way. And the more you can do that, the more you start being able to play characters with what's inside of you and not just how people see you.

Charlie Sandlan (23:21):

That's interesting. What did you learn from Tyler Perry?

Isha Blaaker (23:24):

He's an amazing businessman. When you work with him, you're in his world. He's the one that books you. He's the one that wrote the script. He's the one that directs it. He's the one that acts opposite from you. He directed while he's filming in character. He's standing there as Madea dressed up, and he's also directing. And at one point, he started screaming at me as Madea because I did the proposal. I proposed to the woman that I wanted to be my wife, and he screamed at me as Madea, "Not in my shot you don't. Move, you're in my shot." I was like, holy shit. But it was a great experience. It was a lot of fun. I learned a lot.

Charlie Sandlan (24:10):

Is there a lot of improvising on that set? I mean, I would think those movies have a lot of improvisation or is it you're right on the script in terms of dialogue?

Isha Blaaker (24:21):

Not for me. They improvise left and right, but they've done the movie on stage, I don't know how many times. So they've hashed out a lot of the jokes and then they see and try just whatever works on set in the moment because they know all the jokes that kind of work and they just try different things. But there is the older group of people in there that know the comedic parts very well and the improv, and there's a younger group or the group that tells the dramatic ...

Charlie Sandlan (24:51):

Yeah, you were one of the straight parts, so to speak. You're not the comic relief. So what's it like to be in that world where you've got everyone around you popping off comically?

Isha Blaaker (25:05):

Yeah, it's very weird. Sometimes it's funny and the jokes are funny, but one of the other actresses would sit next to me and say the weirdest things or make jokes about my character, which is weird because you can't have a real reaction.

Charlie Sandlan (25:23):

Right.

Isha Blaaker (25:23):

Because it's funny, but it's supposed to be insulting. So I'm just sitting there like, wait, what? Can I laugh? Should I be insulted? It was difficult. You can't have a real reaction, which was new to me.

Charlie Sandlan (25:35):

And you got to work with another MFS alum in Candace. That's crazy.

Isha Blaaker (25:38):

Yeah, Candace was good. Candace, I saw her not too long ago.

Charlie Sandlan (25:39):

Yeah, she's doing well. What did you learn about comedy? Is there anything you took away from that experience that you'll use going forward when it comes to comedy?

Isha Blaaker (25:51):

Pace, you have to stay on your pace. You take your time to let the drama happen and whatever. It's not a movie. You got to keep that pace in there. Preparation is good, but be very open to what's happening in the moment. But you also learn about is this scene about me or is it about someone else? How do you not try to pull the whole thing towards you, but how do you add to the entire scene? And yeah, you grow this awareness of what works and whatnot.

Charlie Sandlan (26:20):

Have you had a scene where you had to dig into the toolbox and have an emotional preparation and start really alive? Have you had to go there yet?

Isha Blaaker (26:34):

Yeah, I cried for two days straight, but they didn't use it in the end.

Charlie Sandlan (26:38):

Oh, that's the worst. That's the worst. You put your guts out there and it doesn't end up in the final cut.

Isha Blaaker (26:44):

Yeah, they filmed it from 10 different angles.

Charlie Sandlan (26:48):

What was the circumstance?

Isha Blaaker (26:50):

My husband was about to get killed. I sat there on my knees like, "Oh no, don't die. I forgive you for what you've done."

Charlie Sandlan (26:59):

Now, when you're reading that as an actor, you're like, holy fuck, I'm going to have to really step up here. This is ...

Isha Blaaker (27:06):

Yeah, and I did my best, and then it doesn't ... Honestly the scene was a pretty big scene, but no tears were in there. Not that they'd spot tears or anything, and you don't know what that is. Maybe I was pushing, maybe it didn't fit the scene, maybe it was a bit too much or not, or whatever. You don't know why. What's funny is that going that deep isn't necessarily always the most beautiful acting. There were other scenes where I was being very truthful and it was a beautiful scene with my scene partner when we're in the woods and we have this intimate conversation. But I think the way it went, we kind of found it before we started filming, and then something beautiful comes out. No tears are shown, but we were very vulnerable and you can only get that from one, we found it together. And two, we played it together and it was a beautiful scene, but there was no way to prepare that before. So you have to stay in tune with what's happening with your scene partner.

Charlie Sandlan (28:19):

Did it matter to you that the character was gay? Was that even an issue or something that gave you pause in booking the part? You're like, "Oh, fuck I'm in." Because a lot of people get uncomfortable about stuff like that or self-conscious.

Isha Blaaker (28:35):

I did. I got uncomfortable about it and I got self-conscious, but that was the reason why I liked the part. How cool, it's a challenge. One of the reasons the German, the accent, gay and I have a son. So I actually liked that part. What I learned is that if you play a gay part, that usually also means physicality, a kiss or a sex scene. And there was no sex scene in here and there was a kiss, a very simple kiss or smooch or whatever, twice. And I thought, ah, okay, cool, whatever. How bad can it be? A beautiful part. And then you get the set and then you realize that they're going to shoot it 10 different times, different angles.

Charlie Sandlan (29:20):

You're kissing all day.

Isha Blaaker (29:21):

Yeah. Oh man. And it's just a kiss, but for a straight man to kiss another man, it's a lot. And I don't know if people realize that as much, but it was a lot for me, the physical part actually isn't that difficult. It's the mental part that starts weighing on you. Before I spoke to a buddy who was gay as well, and I was like, "Hey, I booked this gay part, it's really cool, but do I need to do anything with my voice or my physicality?" He's like, "Nah, man, just play you." And I don't know if I struggled to play me, I guess, but all I had to show was the love between the two characters I guess, and that was the beauty of it, and that's what I leaned in on. But yeah, the mental part was a bit difficult. Also, some of the things that I went through when I was younger, it made that very difficult. But yeah, they put in a lot of things in place that made it a lot easier.

Charlie Sandlan (30:18):

Did they have an intimacy coordinator on set? Did they use one or was it necessary, I guess?

Isha Blaaker (30:23):

Yeah, usually those are there for sex scenes. It was just a kiss.

Charlie Sandlan (30:27):

Have you had to do a sex scene yet?

Isha Blaaker (30:29):

It was minor, it wasn't ...

Charlie Sandlan (30:32):

Was this in Run the World or was this something else?

Isha Blaaker (30:34):

Yes, but there was a whole intimacy coordinator and all that.

Charlie Sandlan (30:40):

What was it like to shoot a scene like that? Because you have this idea when you watch something and when it's done well, you think it's so beautiful and passionate, but it's such a technical thing that most people don't understand how ...

Isha Blaaker (30:54):

It gets awkward real quick.

Charlie Sandlan (30:55):

How awkward it really is. Yeah.

Isha Blaaker (30:57):

First of all, it's a closed set. When you hear that, it sounds like you, the other actor, the director, and maybe the cameraman. That ain't it. Closed set meets 20 people.

Charlie Sandlan (31:12):

As opposed to 60.

Isha Blaaker (31:13):

Yeah, exactly. There's the camera, the AD, there's the PA, everybody's there besides who doesn't really need to be there. It's still plenty of people. The other thing is that it was my first sex scene and I thought, ooh, you have to be respectful and all that. And I really went out of my way to be respectful to my scene partner actually, and she was very like, yeah. It wasn't her first. And I was like, okay, we have to have the talk. She's like, "Oh yeah." I have to be respectful. And then it was on the day of or whatever, and she's really awesome. She brought games to set for the entire team to play in between shots, so she was very helpful and everybody feeling at home and there was a lot of stress gone because of what she did on set.

(32:06):

While we were playing the game, we had the conversation quickly like, oh, what we're going to do and how are we going to do it. I'm like, "All right, cool. If that's enough for you, then sure." But before that, there was a whole conversation with an intimacy coordinator who speaks with you alone, then speaks with her alone. And I forgot if there's a conversation with the three of you, I think that happens on set. Yeah, it's very interesting. It happens quickly. Yeah, there is a romantic aspect to it because you have to. No sex scene is about sex and everything.

Charlie Sandlan (32:42):

I'd be worried about getting a hard on and be embarrassed about something you can't necessarily control or is it so unsexual? Is it like the shooting of it is so unsexual that it, or did you pop one?

Isha Blaaker (32:58):

It wasn't a full on sex scene. It was just a simple part.

Charlie Sandlan (33:02):

Was there any nudity or half nudity or partial nudity, were you?

Isha Blaaker (33:07):

No, I took my shirt off. I'm like, I worked out for this. My shirt's coming off.

Charlie Sandlan (33:09):

Yeah, right.

Isha Blaaker (33:12):

But no, that's what I noticed before as well, is that the whole thing is not as romantic or whatever's very technical, but the first time you kiss your fellow scene partner is special, magical or there's something about it. It's a lot. Also, when I kiss my male scene partner, it's a lot the first time or when you kiss your female scene partner, magic happens and then already after the second kiss you're like, all right, cool, whatever. So that part was very interesting, but after that, the sex scene is just technicality.

Charlie Sandlan (33:49):

Right. Got to put your shoulder in a certain place, you got to put your head in a certain place.

Isha Blaaker (33:55):

And you got to realize you got to work out all of your body, not just the front side because then you lay on top of it and then your arm looks like you haven't been in the gym for two years straight. And I'm like, oh man, just dieting all day. I only drank coffee and ate vegetables and meat, no carbs. It was a lot. It was interesting.

Charlie Sandlan (34:18):

What have you learned the dos and don'ts, like some things that after being on set, either because of yourself or watching other actors crash and burn in some way, things that you would just say, "Hey listen, make sure you always do this or don't ever do that?"

Isha Blaaker (34:35):

Crazy acting preparation shit you do in your trailer and at home. You don't do it on set. When you have an emotional scene, go there and it's not fully coming, you got to do the walk, which means you turn around, you walk as far as you can on set, you go grab emotionally, whatever you grab, you walk back, you're like, "I'm ready."

Charlie Sandlan (34:53):

Because if you're doing some wacky actor preparation shit on set, what's the result of that? What do people say?

Isha Blaaker (35:01):

Then you get the talk.

Charlie Sandlan (35:03):

Keep that shit off the set.

Isha Blaaker (35:05):

A lot of people don't fully understand it. If people understood, they'd be like, all right, cool, whatever. But a lot of people misunderstand it. Maybe if you are a very well-known actor and people know you do that stuff on set, it's like, all right, cool, whatever. But people don't know you. You might be on drugs, you might be whatever, and it's all about money, and if they can't trust you, that's an issue. So you get the talk and it's like, "Hey, are you straight? What are you doing? Do we need to worry about you?" You're there because you're being paid and you're being paid because they trust you with the work. Be respectful of other people's work. You don't necessarily talk about other people's work unless that's your best buddy or whatever. You guys have established that, but you don't touch somebody else's work verbally, even if that comes from the best intentions.

Charlie Sandlan (35:54):

Yeah, I never give another actor a note. That's the quickest way to get yourself ostracized from everybody.

Isha Blaaker (36:01):

And it's sad sometimes you mean well, but that's what you learn on set. It's like, nope, that stuff happens at home.

Charlie Sandlan (36:07):

Have you ever seen a situation happen where you just thought, oh, I feel so bad for that actor, they're dying here, or somebody that seen him to get fired or something that you're like, man, I'm glad that wasn't me?

Isha Blaaker (36:22):

There was a certain time on a certain set where we've been shooting for a while and you can kind of notice at some point when everybody gets tired or whatever it is, there's a certain period, which is funny, and then everybody kind of started messing up and that's where you're like, oh, it's like when you go skiing. They tell you the last day is the most dangerous one because you're tired and whatever. That's when all the accidents happen, and it kind of felt the same way. It was the last day of the week, and it's like once you see stuff starts messing up on set, just don't become the scapegoat. Don't be that person. Do your job and sometimes whatever you're good at, whatever that thing is that you have doesn't work and you see people crumble quickly.

(37:09):

I've had it as well, you got to be adaptable. You got to throw out whatever you thought you had or worked for you and just be present and try to figure it out. There was one person who improvises a lot and then it didn't work and it became an issue and you get to see it from outside. And I noticed that it doesn't matter as much. It wasn't as of an issue actually. A little bit, but whatever. We'll walk around it, I guess, and that's what everybody's attitude was, but to the person it was like, oh man, oh man. You could see it and at some point you get the apology like, "Oh, shit sorry guys." And I wish that person in that moment had the ability to just go fuck it, whatever. But it's hard. It's hard.

Charlie Sandlan (37:59):

Well, let's talk about what it was like working with Ava DuVernay, her take on Isabelle Wilkerson's book, Caste. Let me just say one of the best books on race that I have ever read. It was a life-changing book for me. I thought it was an incredible piece of journalism and a way of looking at racism in this country through the lens of a caste system.

Isha Blaaker (38:22):

Why was it life-changing for you?

Charlie Sandlan (38:24):

Because it made me look at racism in a completely different way. It made me look at my own racism and the unconscious things that we as white men, white people, but white men in particular do. And to see it through the lens of a caste system, it put me on the journey, let's say, to being far more aware of my own racism, which no white person really wants to talk about or admit. But we're all racists and I just thought the way she talked about things, the stories she told were just incredibly enlightening and thought-provoking and I can't wait to see it in a film. I mean to me, I never would've thought that, wow, someone's going to take this book because it's not fiction and turn it into a movie. To me, I can't wait to see it.

Isha Blaaker (39:17):

There's some kind of narrative along those lines in America where people either agree or disagree, but it is a narrative. I think maybe I have a bit more of an international take on racism from having seen it in different countries.

Charlie Sandlan (39:32):

I mean, if you don't grow up here, I mean people that grow up in Europe or another country, you're not steeped in the American racist sensibility.

Isha Blaaker (39:42):

The racism that I went through isn't nearly as bad as what some people go through in this country, so I have an outside perspective of it. But for instance, think about it in India, how many white people are there in India, but there's still racism there as in every other country, so that's almost, to me, racism is colorblind. Everybody can do it and maybe does it in some way or form. It's almost like it's human nature in group, out group that takes on really bad proportions. So I like that part of the movie that she showed how it's possible in different places in the world and how it's all the same way, how we're all liable doing it.

Charlie Sandlan (40:20):

What was it like working with her? That's a big time heavy hitter right there.

Isha Blaaker (40:25):

Yeah. It's like being on set with your mom. She's very much in there with you, takes you by your arm, takes a walk with you, talks to you about your character, addresses you in the character, supplies all the material for research, allows a lot of freedom on set.

Charlie Sandlan (40:48):

When you say freedom, just in terms of blocking or choices that you want to make or ideas you might have, that kind of thing?

Isha Blaaker (40:55):

No, I just showed up on set with something that wasn't in the script, like a physical object and it just stayed in there. Yeah, she's like, "All right, cool. If that's your part, your thing, cool." I was like, oh shit.

Charlie Sandlan (41:07):

Wow.

Isha Blaaker (41:09):

It was the first time I think I took a risk like that. I was like, okay, cool. So it's possible. She rehearses, which is ...

Charlie Sandlan (41:16):

Like table work rehearsing or ...

Isha Blaaker (41:18):

Yeah, and then gets you up and it's like, "All right, cool. Play it for me and then with the other actors and then no, change it. Change it a little bit like that."

Charlie Sandlan (41:27):

Does she block it after seeing what you guys do in rehearsals and then changes camera angles or does she say, "No, this is kind of how it's going to storyboard" and see if you can fit it into ...

Isha Blaaker (41:40):

No, no, no. I think she just ... No, she really starts, first note is like, "Read it. I don't want to see any choices. Just read it." I swear to God, I wouldn't say this, but working with her in preparation has been very much in class and that is not something that is normal on set.

Charlie Sandlan (41:57):

Does not happen very often. That's a rare thing for sure.

Isha Blaaker (42:01):

You're sitting on scripts in the production office and it's like, "All right, cool. Read it first to me." And she first sits down with you as a conversation, who are you, where are you from? What's your background? Blah, blah. She knows, but she'll still go through it. "Okay, cool. Come back tomorrow." Tomorrow we sit, we talk about the characters and then later on. "All right, come back. Okay, cool. We've got first read. No choices. Okay, cool. Now we're going to block it" and builds it up like that, and I'm just like, oh my God. I had a beautiful part.

Charlie Sandlan (42:38):

Who did you work with?

Isha Blaaker (42:39):

Jasmine Jones.

Charlie Sandlan (42:41):

How long were you on set? How long were you booked for? How many days?

Isha Blaaker (42:45):

Two weeks and then there was a couple of months in between and then we shot again. There was a lot of months in between actually. Two weeks for the first time. First week was training, second week was shooting, and then you had one week at home to prepare and then we shot again in Germany the year after.

Charlie Sandlan (43:06):

What did you take away from that experience? It's quite a job.

Isha Blaaker (43:11):

Yeah.

Charlie Sandlan (43:12):

That's a big one. That's a big one.

Isha Blaaker (43:14):

Preparation. After that, I was like, I don't want to show up with any less any time again. The amount of homework that went into it, it's a beautiful part, but in terms of the amount of scenes, it wasn't a crazy lot. There was a beautiful monologue in there. The amount of preparation that went into the amount of work that came out of it, you're just like, oh shit. And I don't want to work any way less. There were like five books I had to read to prepare, so there was Caste, Elizabeth Wilkerson's book, the biography on my character. There were the two poetry bundles. There was the book on stoicism, Robert Frost, Marcus Aurelius.

Charlie Sandlan (44:01):

Marcus Aurelius is great. That's some wonderful stuff. Life's going to change for you once this comes out, and especially if it's like any of your other films, it's going to open up more doors for you. I'm really excited for you. I'm proud of you. You're a hell of a hard worker and you're a talented artist, and I look forward to seeing what starts to happen for you, and I appreciate you coming on here.

Isha Blaaker (44:29):

I appreciate you as well.

Charlie Sandlan (44:30):

I'll get you out on this. What would you want to say to those that are out there that want to pursue an artistic career, an artistic life, some advice or some thoughts that you want to just pass on?

Isha Blaaker (44:44):

I would say if you're still studying sooner than later stuff, figuring out what your career perspectives are, or prospects, because then you can start preparing for that. The part after you feel like you're ready, you studied enough is probably the most difficult part to get signed and then start auditioning and all that. If you can make choices on that early on, it would help, how are you going to go about it? You have any competitive advantage? Do you dance? Do you sing? Do you have any kind of management there or whatever that can get you a foot in the door or any connections? If you don't have that, that's fine. You can also do cold calling or emailing 100 people you find on IMDB Pro or whatever. They hate that, but I know at least two people that got in like that.

(45:30):

If that's not the case, I have an old improv teacher who I think doesn't have an agent or manager, but she works every day. She has her own character that she puts up as a show. She teaches improv. She has two improv shows and she sings and she works and she earns, and I think that's amazing. I think otherwise, find a different way or say acting is acting. Are you in love with the acting career? Are you in love with acting? And if you're in love with acting then say, "I want to pursue it and I want go to a community theater and blow the roof off of it because I love acting. I love the scene that I have and I'm going to make my money somewhere else and it's going to feed each other." But making those choices early on I think helps for a lot of misconceptions.

Charlie Sandlan (46:22):

Well, my fellow daydreamers, thank you for sticking around and keeping that phone in your pocket. Please subscribe and follow this show. You can share it with your friends. Let them know you got this really great podcast that they need to listen to. If you have a few seconds, go to iTunes, leave a written review for the show, that would really be great. You can also go to https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com. Go to the contact page, hit that red button. I use SpeakPipe. You can leave me a voice message, share with me some of your thoughts, ask me a question. You can also go to https://www.maggieflaniganstudio.com if you are interested in training with me at my New York City Conservatory, and you can follow me on Instagram @maggieflaniganstudio, @creatingbehavior. Lawrence Trailer, thank you for the song, my man. My friends, at some point answer that question and then stay resilient, play full out with yourself, and don't ever settle for your second best. My name is Charlie Sandlan. Peace. (singing)