093 A Face of Anxiety Pt. 4

It's that time again fellow daydreamers for Charlie's wife Trish Barillas to sit down for another episode of A Face of Anxiety.  Only this time Trish wanted to turn the tables, so this week she's taking over CBP to interview Charlie. Trish shares some insights and tips on navigating mental health and anxiety, and how to fight for your light.  She then gets Charlie on the other side of the mic, and as you know, Charlie is going to speak his mind. It's the second to last episode of season four, and it's a blast having Trish back. If you are interested in working with Trish, find her at https://www.trishbarillas.com You can follow CBP on Instagram @creatingbehavior, and Charlie's NYC acting conservatory, the Maggie Flanigan Studio @maggieflaniganstudio. Theme music by  https://www.thelawrencetrailer.com. For written transcripts, to leave a voicemail on SpeakPipe, or contact Charlie for private coaching, check out https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com

Transcript

Trish Barillas (00:00:03):

Hi, I'm Trish and I will be your host today. Normally, Charlie interviews me for A Face of Anxiety and I talk all things about mental health, being anxious. However, I wanted to change the game. I wanted to really switch it up. So I'll be interviewing Charlie. He will be the guest. I will be questioning him on all things that make him who he is. So we'll get all that tea. Now, it's going to be the good, the bad, the weird, the interesting things that you might want to know or probably things you didn't want to know, but we'll see. Word on the street is that Charlie is an intimidating teacher, and I get that. He's a master teacher. And I never see that version. Clearly, I've never been in his studio as a student, but I really wanted to shed light on who Charlie is in an intimate setting. It's about getting to know the man behind the mic. So put your phone back in your pocket. Creating behavior starts now.

(00:01:39):

Well, hello, my fellow Daydreamers. I'm a Latina life coach, and this is A Face of Anxiety Pt. 4. So I am going to be talking a little bit about anxiety before we jump into all things Charlie. I don't like the term life coach. I really never have. But it's in order for people to truly find me, I like to call myself more of a creator of positive change because that's what we do as coaches. We're constantly trying to get people to move, to find some burning light inside them to keep fighting. And when it comes to mental health, God, that fight is aggressive and it's hard, and you got to keep in it.

(00:02:27):

I hate traveling. This is not new news, and I do it often. My sister lives in New Zealand. My family lives in Guatemala. Charlie likes to travel. So I generally have to suck it up. And I don't like when I kind of, I guess, enforce my suffering onto others. I really try to keep it to myself because at the end of the day, we don't want to rely on others to help us through some of our toughest times when we're battling with a mental disorder because God forbid that person isn't there, then you're kind of screwed.

(00:03:08):

So I recently went to New Zealand with Charlie. We visited my sister. We were sick pretty much the whole time, and that was due to a lot of hay fever and other stuff. And I just kept saying to myself, "You're okay. This is a moment in time. Stay present." We never stay present. It's really hard as we get older to stay present because of the world we live in, technology, it's constantly giving us this stimuli so that we can really stay away from ourselves and not listen to what's really happening.

(00:03:46):

So my tip for traveling is that you need to intervene with the negative thinking. This is easier said than done. Intervening with negative thinking means really stopping the what if. Well, what if this happens? What if I get sick? What if my baby gets sick? What if? And now with all this plain crap, what if half the plane falls out? What if I get locked in an airplane bathroom, which I heard just happened? So these fears is what keeps the anxiety going. It's what keeps us living in perpetual fear. And at the end of the day, people who are anxious are scared of being scared, and that's what really gets us unsettled.

(00:04:35):

So when you are in your height, when you're in a state of panic, you have to just keep saying probably over and over again that, "This is a moment in time. It is not a life sentence. This will pass." You just got to buckle up and you keep saying that to yourself. I actually had to say this to myself last night. I'm traumatized by food poisoning. When Charlie and I returned home from New Zealand, which is what, 25 plus hours of traveling, I got food poisoning on a Friday night after a delicious dinner. It started around 1:30 in the morning. It was horrible. This is my biggest fear. My biggest fear is food poisoning. So I'm a bit traumatized. I definitely have some PTSD and I'll never get over having panic disorder. It comes on. It comes on quick. It happened again last night. Yes, last night. I was battling severe panic, and this shit happens. And I generally find that people think, "Oh, because she does this," I've been coaching for 19 years, "she coaches on anxiety and mental health that eventually it'll go away or it'll dissipate."

(00:06:09):

I find that it's gotten a little bit harder because as women, we are constantly dealing with hormones and gets worse. There's not a lot of options for us as women to really handle our changing bodies, and that's for a whole other episode. So if you are an anxious, if you are battling with some sort of panic, et cetera, just know that there are so many of us. There are so many options for you. Don't give up. Always fight for your light. And if you can't do it alone, I promise you, there are very qualified facilitators that might take a minute to try to figure out who those are that can help you on your journey.

(00:06:59):

My most recent workshop was called Get Your Shit Together. I love the title of this because a lot of us, regardless how busy you are of what's happening in your life, or if you're not busy enough, we rarely get our shit together. There's always something. There's always, "Oh, I'll get to it. It's too stressful. Maybe I don't even know how to start." Sometimes people get paralyzed. A lot of that happens around IRS and filing taxes. Sometimes it's just getting your house in order. It's whether you are trying to get a job and you just don't want to redo your resume, whatever it might be.

(00:07:44):

Getting your together is about accountability. We don't have a lot of accountability as we get older, as we become adults. No one is checking up on us. Nobody is putting that fire under our ass when it comes to a lot of things that are personal. Sure, can we flourish in jobs? Can we get things under the gun? Some people really like the stress. They perform really well under stress. I used to be one of those. But when it comes to all things that make you who you are, I feel like we shouldn't be always trying to catch up. That is a horrible feeling and it creates a lot of unnecessary anxiety.

(00:08:27):

The world is shit as it is, so we want to try to make our home. And our home consists of not just our four walls, our friends, our hobbies, our partners, the people that make us who we are today. We need to get that in check. We need to make sure that you are experiencing joys in life, that you are not feeling stressed in a way that you are not getting on top of whatever it is, whether it's your finances, whether it's bad habits, et cetera.

(00:09:06):

So this workshop really took people who don't know each other, who became accountability partners. And we don't look at one of the things. And this is probably an unpopular opinion, I don't like when people ask, "What's your five-year plan?" It's 2024. That is, I find, one of the dumbest questions. We don't even know how the fuck the world is going to be. We have no clue. The world is constantly changing. Pandemic has changed the way that we operate. Things happen too quickly, and I've actually always felt this way.

(00:09:47):

Even when I opened my practice in 2006, I didn't do five-year plans. I do three to five months. That is what I think we have the most control. I don't like that word, but I'll use it. Control over. What do I need to do in three to five months? What are the goals that I'm trying to hit? What do I want to work on? Emphasize, because that is a bit more tangible. In five years, I don't know. We could be wearing helmets with oxygen walking around. It's election year. I don't know. I don't know. So I stay away from the five-year plan. So if you are somebody who struggles with, one, asking for help, or two, trying to figure out how to get your shit together, coaching is such a viable option. It is one of the things that helped me most in my younger years when I was in my twenties. So this is something I do think everybody should really look into. And who doesn't want to have their shit together, right?

(00:10:56):

Coming up in February. And for my women out there who emphasize on, "Will I have a Valentine's? Am I dating somebody? Are we exclusive?" This is for you. This is for my women. I did a Swiped Out workshop last year and it will come back this year, but in February. On Feb. 12th, which is a Monday, I'm giving a free webinar. It's called Swiped Out webinar. It is for women who are just simply exhausted about the dating game. And you might need a little bit of maybe some more pep in your step, maybe someone to really fucking get you excited and boost you up. This is for those women who need some help keeping that hope. And this is something I love to coach on. I love supporting women. I did not meet Charlie until I was 39. We didn't get married until I was 42.

(00:12:03):

So I get what it's like to be single in your early, or sorry, late thirties, and in a big city while all your friends are getting married and popping out babies and it feels like shit's happening to people but the thing that you thought would happen to you isn't, this is your webinar because I will hype you the fuck up. I will make you leave this webinar loving yourself, finding some hope. And it's not about the other person. It's not about the partner. It's about you. It's about how you feel about yourself. It's about what you think about yourself.

(00:12:45):

So it is a free webinar. It will be on Zoom. It's already listed on my website, but there will be more to come on that. I just relaunched my website so it is new and fun and it's so much easier to navigate. You can find these workshops on there. You can also find the link to sign up for the webinar. It's just an RSVP. For any workshops, there will be many coming up, that is where you would find it. And that is at https://www.trishbarillas.com, T-R-I-S-H-B-A-R-I-L-L-A-S.com.

(00:13:28):

I know Charlie likes to share books he's read, series he's into, movies or plays he likes, generally some he doesn't like. So I want to share some of mine because they're a little bit different. I have three books that I want to share. They're from different genres so I thought that was helpful. If you are not easily triggered, so I do want to preface, that if reading about mental health or mental disorder doesn't sit well with you, this is not the book for you. If you are interested and it doesn't trigger you, this book, it's called While You Were Out by Meg Kissinger. Actually, Charlie picked this out for me whilst we were in a bookstore, and I looked at it and said, "Eh, sure." I ended up loving it. It is an intimate family portrait of mental illness in an error of silence.

(00:14:23):

So this book was written by Meg Kissinger. She is a longtime journalist. She grew up with a family who suffered a ton of obstacles, issues, mental disorder, alcoholism. And some of the things that she had gone through in her childhood was extremely traumatizing. She became such a great journalist and one of her best pieces, which she never thought that she would ever write because of, let's be honest, how hard is it to write your ugly truths, right, the real truth about your family and how you grew up. So she writes from her perspective, and she got the blessing of all of her sisters and brothers. They said, "Absolutely, people should know. People should know how to handle this. People should be made aware that mental illness should not be kept silent." And this is why I love the book.

(00:15:29):

I'm going to read a passage from While You Were Out. And this is actually from the viewpoint of how to handle somebody in your life that has a mental illness or disorder. She says, "Mental illness can be mean and ugly. Walk away when it gets too rough if you can. Don't allow the person to abuse you. You just have to play zone defense and contain it as best as you're able. Having a sense of humor is helpful too, not to be flippant or dismissive, but just as a reminder that our time is limited and precious and shouldn't be lived wallowing in misery and self-pity." And then I'm going to jump to one of my favorite lines. It's, "One breath at a time. Resilience is a full spectrum. Long, slow, curious process."

(00:16:24):

This book really spoke to me. It sheds so much light on every angle that mental illness plays. It sheds light on the people that suffered. It shed light on the people who lived after somebody had been gone and had taken their lives. It shows exactly how mental disorders, mental illness, it touches everybody in that family. And you either can get through it or it rips it apart. It's brutal. And we don't talk about it enough. And especially when it comes to suicide, we have to break the stigma and talk about it more and be able to be supportive and understand what does it mean to be supportive. So I love this book. It is quite heavy. If you feel up to it, my suggestion is always to read it during the day and then watch something light and fluffy afterwards. My next two books are on the lighter side because I do think that it's healthy to really change it up, not to read things that are always so dark or always educational. Things that I tell my clients often is don't get stuck in self-help. Yes, self-help books are helpful and it's great knowledge and it's good to be educated, but sometimes we can overdo it and we get so sucked into it that you don't focus on anything else. So now, you become even more hyper aware of, "Well, maybe I'm this. Maybe they're this," dah, dah, dah. It just becomes this vicious cycle. So you want to break it up.

(00:18:14):

For me, I'm into beach reads. Give me a fun, light, interesting fiction. It will make me happy and I will blow through that book super quick. Sometimes I read it or I buy them at the airport and then I finish them before I even get to my destination. So there are two books that I want to talk about. One is called The Breakaway by Jennifer Weiner. The Breakaway, what I loved about this book is that it emphasizes self-esteem for women, women's issues. There's so much. I don't want to say more about it because I don't want to ruin it, but it is made and created for women to finish that book and feel better about themselves. And it actually has a lot to do with self-image, how we look at our bodies and how society looks at us. So this is a fun, lighthearted, interesting way to really connect to women. This is one of my highly recommended books. Jennifer Weiner, The Breakaway. It's also a New York Times bestseller.

(00:19:29):

Next up, we have Happy Place by Emily Henry. This book is lighthearted. It's about friends, change, coming into your own, also having some hard conversations. I like the dynamic that happens in the friend group and being a little bit afraid to share your truth and what it means to have friends and what they're actually there for. And that is to tell each other when shit's hitting in the fan. And even as embarrassing or shameful as it might be, we need people. We need human connection, that we would die without human connection. Even though you might not be a people person, we still need some sort of connection. This was also a New York Times bestseller. I don't even know what that means anymore because the literary world is very confusing.

(00:20:30):

So anyways, but for what it's worth, I loved all three of these books. Hopefully you'll find a genre that works for you. But I do want to say for my anxious people, for people that are doing a lot of work in self-work, break up your genre. Really make it so that you decide, you pick and choose what you're in the mood for. I've got five books that are generally on my nightstand, and I'll decide what feels good for me in the moment. I might be a little anxious. I'm going to go for a beach read. If I'm feeling like, "Yeah, I got this," I might go dark and heavy. Who knows? So change it up. See what calls to you.

(00:21:16):

Before we get to Charlie, I want to clear something up. I want to give my feedback about what makes me happy, and that is reality TV. I am a huge Bravo fan and I am not ashamed to admit that. It's really hard being married to an acting teacher because when he gets home, which he has later nights than me, he huffs and puffs and complains that, "This is garbage. It's easy. It's rotting your brain. This is the lowest form." And I don't care. I don't care. That is how I feel about American sports. I don't like football. It's not my thing, but I don't trash it. I don't come in and scream. I get when he has to watch football. I get to go do my own thing. But I like reality TV. As an anxious, it's in the background. I know it's silly. I know it's dramatic. I know it has nothing to do with me, and I don't care. I don't care. It makes me happy.

(00:22:23):

So for anybody who are in relationships, partnerships, and your partner does not like what you watch, who gives a fuck? Keep watching. Keep doing you boo, okay? Because at the end of the day, what makes you happy makes you happy. And it does. But I will say, this is the first time. Last night when I was having some... Not even some. It was brutal. I was having a massive panic attack because of my stomach. Charlie turned on Vanderpump Rules. They were having a marathon. That's when I know shit is bad, when he's putting on the one thing he hates. And I thought that was really sweet. It really made me love him more because he's so supportive when I do have these bouts. But I still will defend my reality TV. I still am a huge Bravo fan. Sometimes I see Andy around the streets. My girlfriend Uba is on the New York City, Real Housewives. I am a fan, fan to the end.

(00:23:36):

This was such a great talk with Charlie. Even though getting to this junction was brutal, getting all the notes from him. I didn't know if we were going to actually make it, but we did. We had some great questions. I threw it up on the gram, students, former students, people from my IG. So we went everywhere. We went to body parts and just kind of shady questions. It goes full circle. So I'm glad that we did this. I don't think I have a future in podcasting, and I am okay with that. I will forever be an interviewee. That is my space. That's where I like to live, and I think Charlie will absolutely agree. So let's just get right to it. As Charlie likes to say, here is my husband, Charlie Sandlan.

Charlie Sandlan (00:24:32):

You know this was a nightmare getting to this point.

Trish Barillas (00:24:37):

Are you talking to me or them?

Charlie Sandlan (00:24:38):

Who's them? I'm talking to you. It was a nightmare.

Trish Barillas (00:24:41):

I don't know. I thought you were talking out into...

Charlie Sandlan (00:24:44):

No, just getting you to do the opening, the intro, to work it out. It's a lot.

Trish Barillas (00:24:50):

You're not a walk in the park either, old man river, that-

Charlie Sandlan (00:24:52):

Old man river.

Trish Barillas (00:24:53):

Yeah, I get it.

Charlie Sandlan (00:24:54):

Okay. Well, it's your show so I'm the guest. Hi. It's nice to be here.

Trish Barillas (00:24:58):

Stop talking.

Charlie Sandlan (00:24:59):

I don't say that to guests.

Trish Barillas (00:25:00):

Well, I'm saying it to you.

Charlie Sandlan (00:25:03):

No.

PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:25:04]

Charlie Sandlan (00:25:03):

... To guests.

Trish Barillas (00:25:03):

Well, I'm saying it to you.

Charlie Sandlan (00:25:04):

No.

Trish Barillas (00:25:04):

So welcome Charlie Sandlan.

Charlie Sandlan (00:25:07):

This is all getting edited.

Trish Barillas (00:25:09):

To Creating Behavior Podcasts. So how does it feel being a guest on your very own podcast?

Charlie Sandlan (00:25:16):

How does it feel?

Trish Barillas (00:25:17):

Yes.

Charlie Sandlan (00:25:17):

It's still the same amount of stress and more work than doing it myself.

Trish Barillas (00:25:23):

I think it's actually worse, to be honest, but ...

Charlie Sandlan (00:25:25):

For me.

Trish Barillas (00:25:26):

That's from my point of view. I am not a podcaster. I'm always going to be a guest.

Charlie Sandlan (00:25:31):

I'll tell you, you've got a good voice though.

Trish Barillas (00:25:32):

I actually don't like my voice. I think you have a great radio voice.

Charlie Sandlan (00:25:36):

Oh, thank you. Okay.

Trish Barillas (00:25:39):

So let's jump right in, Charles Mack Sandlan IV.

Charlie Sandlan (00:25:42):

Okay.

Trish Barillas (00:25:45):

So let's start at the beginning. Walk us through what you were like as a kid. So put us in high school. Were you one of those drama kids? Were you a theater kid? Were you bullied? Were you the cool kid? Who were you in high school? Paint us the picture.

Charlie Sandlan (00:26:04):

I was one of the few that could cross over with the popular jocks and the weird theater douchebags.

Trish Barillas (00:26:13):

Well, why were they douchebags?

Charlie Sandlan (00:26:17):

Well, that's just the way it was in high school. Do you know what I mean? But I hung out with the athletes. I hung out with the theater folk. I did the musicals. I ran cross country. I don't know. I mean, I was popular, but I also got bullied. I got bullied here and there. DJ Schroyer. This was probably my sophomore year. If you're listening DJ, you're an asshole still to this day. We both came in wearing the same sweater and he was like, "Sandlan, get that fucking sweater off." I'm like, "What?" He's like, "Take that fucking sweater off. We're not wearing the same sweater today." So I said, "Go fuck yourself." So he tried to shove me into a locker, and then my friends, Kenny and Jerry, they all came to my rescue and told him to get the fuck off me. But he was actually trying to cram me into a locker.

Trish Barillas (00:27:11):

Was DJ Schroder ...

Charlie Sandlan (00:27:13):

Schroyer.

Trish Barillas (00:27:13):

... Bigger than you?

Charlie Sandlan (00:27:14):

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Trish Barillas (00:27:15):

Schroyer.

Charlie Sandlan (00:27:15):

Yeah, of course, of course.

Trish Barillas (00:27:18):

Oh, okay. But you're a very tall man. I mean, you're six three. So when did you get your height?

Charlie Sandlan (00:27:26):

I mean, I don't know. High school. I was always tall. I was always tall. I probably hit six three in my senior year, maybe.

Trish Barillas (00:27:39):

Wow, okay. Well, generally, sometimes boys tend to not hit puberty or they hit puberty later. So I'm just trying to picture someone trying to shove you in a locker.

Charlie Sandlan (00:27:51):

I know. I know.

Trish Barillas (00:27:55):

I can't see it because of how tall you are.

Charlie Sandlan (00:27:57):

I never thought it was funny because I've always been able to be teased. I'm a good sport. So I talked my way out of everything.

Trish Barillas (00:28:10):

And goofy. So you were always goofy.

Charlie Sandlan (00:28:12):

Oh yeah, absolutely.

Trish Barillas (00:28:13):

And where do you get that from? So where is your goofiness, where does it come from?

Charlie Sandlan (00:28:19):

My dad.

Trish Barillas (00:28:21):

So your dad was very goofy?

Charlie Sandlan (00:28:24):

Yeah, my dad's goofy or was goofy.

Trish Barillas (00:28:25):

And playful.

Charlie Sandlan (00:28:25):

My dad's dead.

Trish Barillas (00:28:28):

Okay. Yes, he passed. Okay, so high school, you could cross over. And then what was college like?

Charlie Sandlan (00:28:38):

College. I mean, I went to Purdue. I made it in theater. So I was always around the theater kids. But I did get into a fraternity because Purdue has one of the top two or three biggest Greek systems in the country on any college level. So yeah.

Trish Barillas (00:28:58):

I didn't know that.

Charlie Sandlan (00:28:59):

So I mean, it's huge. Tons of fraternities, sororities and I ...

Trish Barillas (00:29:03):

So what's your fraternity?

Charlie Sandlan (00:29:04):

Phi Kappa Tau. Phi Taus.

Trish Barillas (00:29:09):

Do you still talk to your brothers?

Charlie Sandlan (00:29:11):

I am on this unending, just ungodly fucking chain. Yeah, we all reconnected like 3 or 4 years ago during the pandemic, and so now I'm on this 11 person text chain, it's just constantly popping off. It drives me crazy sometimes, but I think there's a reunion in the works. Yeah, I lived in a fraternity for two years, so I hung out with the frat guys, hung out with the theater people. So even in college, I straddled both sides, both worlds. Let's keep that into perspective.

Trish Barillas (00:29:44):

We don't judge here. This is a judgment free zone.

Charlie Sandlan (00:29:47):

Please.

Trish Barillas (00:29:47):

Okay, so college, and then where was it, do you feel like it was something you always had in you, this passion for acting? Were you always like, you know what, I want to be an actor? Was there a movie that you saw? Was there an actor that just, it did it for you? Because I know sometimes ...

Charlie Sandlan (00:30:08):

Finish your thought.

Trish Barillas (00:30:09):

So where did it come from?

Charlie Sandlan (00:30:10):

Well, originally I wanted to be a priest. That was the first thing that ...

Trish Barillas (00:30:15):

Wait, hold on. This is news to me. I know there's Pastor David, but I didn't know you actually wanted to be a priest.

Charlie Sandlan (00:30:23):

You didn't know that?

Trish Barillas (00:30:23):

No.

Charlie Sandlan (00:30:25):

Oh, up until probably say about the age of 14, I was fascinated by it because I grew up Catholic and I was in Catholic grade school and we were going to church all the fucking time, and I was just kind of taken by it. And I mean, looking back on it now, I liked the theatricality of it, I liked the robes and the center of attention and all of the pageantry that went with it. So I was kind of taken by it. And then when I got to high school, it was the theater and girls.

Trish Barillas (00:30:59):

So then priesthood goes out the way. And also you curse a lot. I don't know if you'd make a good priest.

Charlie Sandlan (00:31:04):

As I say, and you know this to be true, people that curse are the most healthy.

Trish Barillas (00:31:10):

Well sure, of course they say that. We're the ones that curse.

Charlie Sandlan (00:31:15):

Studies have been done.

Trish Barillas (00:31:17):

Okay, so wanted to be a priest, and then you got into theater, and then when was it when you said, I want to be an actor, I want to go out to castings? And what did you first start in? What was the first thing you ever got?

Charlie Sandlan (00:31:34):

The first thing I ever did?

Trish Barillas (00:31:36):

You booked.

Charlie Sandlan (00:31:37):

You talking about professionally or talking about, this is the first thing I ever did in my life, the first piece of theater I ever did?

Trish Barillas (00:31:42):

Let's do both. Do both.

Charlie Sandlan (00:31:45):

All right. The first piece of theater I did was I was probably seven or eight. I played one of the children in The King and I at the local high school. They were doing The King and I and they were looking for kids to play the children of the king. So I auditioned and I did that. So that was probably, I don't know, 1979 maybe, 1980. And then my first paid SAG job was, I think it was one of the Law & Orders. It might've been regular Law & Order. I did them all, Law & Order, Law & Order: SVU, Law & Order: Criminal Intent. But I think I was a paramedic or something. I had like five lines.

Trish Barillas (00:32:34):

But you were always cast as a cop or something?

Charlie Sandlan (00:32:37):

I was a cop, a detective, a SWAT guy. Yeah, because I had this shaved head when I really started, FBI agent in 24.

Trish Barillas (00:32:48):

When did you lose your hair?

Charlie Sandlan (00:32:50):

I didn't lose my hair. I shaved my head. Let's make that clear. Okay. It is a choice. It's an aesthetic choice.

Trish Barillas (00:32:58):

Thank God. Listen, you're a very attractive man, but more so without hair.

Charlie Sandlan (00:33:03):

But you've never really seen me with hair. You've seen pictures of me back when I was in ...

Trish Barillas (00:33:07):

I just saw a picture last night. That was scary. I said, "You should really keep these in the archive."

Charlie Sandlan (00:33:14):

Well, I originally shaved my head in my mid 20s before anybody was doing it. And then I grew it back for school, grad school because Bill didn't want me shaving my head, Bill Esper. And then when I got out of school, so at 30, 31, I went from Chip to Charlie and shaved my head. And it's been shaved since the last 25 years.

Trish Barillas (00:33:38):

And you mentioned to me in the past that you had a unibrow that no one told you about.

Charlie Sandlan (00:33:43):

Yeah, I mean who doesn't? I had a unibrow until I ...

Trish Barillas (00:33:46):

Me. No, lots of people don't.

Charlie Sandlan (00:33:49):

I had a unibrow until I was like 23.

Trish Barillas (00:33:53):

And who was it? Was it girl that was like, listen?

Charlie Sandlan (00:33:55):

Oh yeah. It was all the girls at the Four Seasons, I worked at the Four Seasons Hotel. That was my first job. And the girls were like, "You got to get rid of that." I'm like, "What are you talking about?"

Trish Barillas (00:34:07):

You would think your sister Niki would've helped you out.

Charlie Sandlan (00:34:09):

Niki, please, not at all. So they were like, "You got to do this." So one night we were all over at somebody's house and they gave me a pluck and I was like, "Oh. Oh, yeah, okay. I get it."

Trish Barillas (00:34:23):

Game changer.

Charlie Sandlan (00:34:24):

Sure.

Trish Barillas (00:34:24):

When did it turn for you? When you thought, okay, I'm not going to go out to these castings or become an actor. I actually want to teach because that's a very significant change. So when did that happen? And why did that happen?

Charlie Sandlan (00:34:39):

Well, I did talk about this on my very first episode. Who, what and why?

Trish Barillas (00:34:43):

But we're going through everything Charlie Sandlan, so you don't have to go in depth, but we're doing all of it.

Charlie Sandlan (00:34:48):

I can tell you've done your homework on all these episodes. You've listened to all of them, haven't you?

Trish Barillas (00:34:53):

I listened to every single one of them all last night.

Charlie Sandlan (00:34:56):

You're really prepared here.

Trish Barillas (00:34:57):

Why are you trying to call me out on my podcast I'm hosting right now?

Charlie Sandlan (00:35:01):

Well, I'm just calling what I see.

Trish Barillas (00:35:04):

So please, could you address the question?

Charlie Sandlan (00:35:07):

Sure. When I was dating Andrea, we moved to LA because she got into that sitcom, Joey. So we moved out to LA and this was in 2002. And I was auditioning and had an agent and whatnot and pursuing my career, and I got to a point where I didn't need a survival job anymore. And there was this acting studio in Santa Monica that was looking for a Meisner teacher. And I thought, oh fuck, I could do that. I got my master's and I did what most acting teachers do. They just pull out notes from classes they took years ago and kind of bullshit their way, call themselves a teacher. And that's what I was doing. So I was working at this studio and I mean, my students didn't know that I was full of shit, but I knew because I mean, I had Maggie and Bill, and they were master teachers, spent their whole life mastering the craft. So I knew what a master teacher looked like, sounded like, the way they talked and the clarity and their complete command of the work.

(00:36:16):

What was interesting to me was that I enjoyed the teaching. I would leave class and I was like fuck, I was just so creatively satiated, just like I would be if I was on stage or on set, and I was kind of just taken aback by that. I'm like, huh, I like this. I like being able to speak my mind and say what's important to me and I like the work. I thought the Meisner technique was an incredible way to train actors. And the more I did it, the more I thought, I want to be good at this if I'm going to try. And first I thought I'm going to be an actor and a teacher. I can do both. I mean, there were people out there that do that.

(00:36:51):

And so in 2005, I called Maggie and our friendship had formed by that point. And I said, because she had just opened her studio in 2001. And I said, "Listen, I think I want to teach." I said, "I might be a teacher." I said, "But I want to study teaching. I want to learn how to teach." She's like, "Well, you'd have to come back to New York." I said, "Okay." So I talked to Andrea and we tried to do bi-coastal together. We ended up breaking up, but I moved back in 2005. So in September of 2005, I started watching Maggie teach. And then by 2007, I realized that this was my life's work. And my agent was like, "Listen, you're not willing to travel anymore. Go teach." I said, "You're right." I said, "I'm a teacher." Because I was 37 and realized that this was my life's work.

Trish Barillas (00:37:50):

So you realized I prefer teaching and Maggie, who I know as the sweetest little woman who just makes me so happy when I'm around her. But as a teacher, I'm aware that that is not how you guys have all experienced her. So now that everything pandemic, technology, all these different movements, do you feel like it has gotten significantly tougher and or harder to teach the way that you were taught?

Charlie Sandlan (00:38:31):

Oh, I can't teach the way I was taught. I'd be sued. I'd be out of business. My generation, when it came to training and being in a classroom with teachers, it was very challenging. Maggie was very, very tough. She was a force of nature. She was a blazing, fucking light of truth, and her standard was so fucking high, she wasn't going to lower it for anybody. And what I had to learn, and she actually told me this. She said, "Listen, I'm a five foot tall woman who comes in kind of frail." She says, "You're six three, you're a white man, and you cannot teach the way I taught." And it took me a while. I tried to teach the way she taught for a number of years, and I think it didn't come across well. And so over the years, I've had to really adapt and really change without lowering my standard.

(00:39:35):

But Maggie was very difficult. I mean tough, I should say. She just didn't take any bullshit. You had to come correct every motherfucking time. She didn't tolerate laziness. She didn't tolerate you being defensive, arguing with her, trying to justify what you were doing. You shut up and you listened and you take in and you know nothing about acting and that's the position you had to come from. I know nothing about acting. I'm here to learn. I'm going to take in and listen to you. And she changed my life. And I mean, listen, I know people that are listening to this that have had Maggie, I mean, is life changing. The whole course of my life professionally, artistically, I owe to that woman.

Trish Barillas (00:40:21):

But do you feel like there is some preservation where you still are able to have your students walk away and feel that way about you?

Charlie Sandlan (00:40:31):

Absolutely. They do.

Trish Barillas (00:40:33):

And how have you corrected that? How are you able to still be able to give that to them without the training that you had specifically?

Charlie Sandlan (00:40:45):

I've gotten very good at being able to teach to the individual. I've become very good at being able to understand what a person can handle and not handle. And so I don't teach everybody the same. And I'll have students that will be like, "God, man, you're so fucking hard on me." And they'll see other students that maybe I'm not as hard on. And I'll say to them, "The last thing you want is me not to be hard on you. If I'm not hard on you, it's because I don't think you can do it. And I'm trying to just teach you to what you're capable of. But if I think you've really got something, if I think you've got real potential and you could be a real actor, I'm going to push you and I'm going to challenge you."

(00:41:29):

And so it's really, where's the threshold for each student? And everybody's got their own issues, their own traumas, their own personalities, their own issues. A lot of students, they'll project onto me, their childhood insecurities, just like a therapist gets projected onto. Authority figures or getting criticism from a man, getting criticism from an authority figure, it can be very challenging. So it's a fine line. Everybody is different. And I've gotten good really at being able to teach to the individual.

Trish Barillas (00:42:06):

So you have an open door policy, so people can walk in on breaks when you're not in the classroom?

Charlie Sandlan (00:42:13):

Of course, it's a nonstop fucking parade of people coming into my office. And yes, it irritates me, but it also, I believe it's necessary. So yeah, students will pop in and I say to them, "You can pop in anytime. Knock on my door, just pop in for a second. If you need more time than just five minutes, you get on my calendar with Logan and we can sit down and talk." But I mean, I'm their teacher. I'm also the owner of the studio. I'm the artistic director. So I have a responsibility to make sure that these students know that they have access to me. And there are a lot of studios out there where the owner or the artistic director acts like a demigod and they're rarely around, and you rarely can talk to them, or they put out such an intimidating presence that nobody wants to even approach them.

(00:43:07):

Now I have to say, I mean, I love Maggie, but that's how she conducted herself. She wouldn't talk to you. She wouldn't look at you in the hallway. She would walk by you. There was a wall up, there was a boundary, like a motherfucking boundary like nobody's business. And it set this image of her as this revered kind of mystery, enigma, this Miss Teacher that you just went into class and if you really needed to talk to her, you got on her schedule and you sat in her office and you talked. But there was no chit-chat, her in the hallway shooting the shit with students. I'm like, fucking never. And so you've got to learn how to let a guest finish their thought before you talk over them.

Trish Barillas (00:44:00):

Go ahead.

Charlie Sandlan (00:44:03):

That is one of the biggest things that I have learned. It took me many years to go from trying to sound like a Maggie clone and acting like a Maggie clone to being me, Charlie, my personality, my sense of humor, the way I want to interact with my students, the way I want to be at the studio. And I mean, that took me a good 12 years of real hard work to do that. So it was challenging. But I do think that being accessible and letting them know that you have a personality and that you have a sense of humor, but that you're also not to be fucked with. I also expect you to come prepared and do your work. And don't argue with me and don't try to explain yourself to me. So I still have no problem pushing back, but I push back in different ways.

(00:44:56):

See, Maggie would just say, "Shut up, be quiet. I'm talking." And I tried that for a while, didn't go very well. And now I just say, "Listen, do you want to talk or do you want to be taught? Because right now you're just talking to me. You're trying to explain yourself to me, but you don't know what you're talking about." So you're here to be taught. So my suggestion is that you listen to what I have to say and trust that I know more about acting than you do. And when I talk to them that way, it's much more effective.

Trish Barillas (00:45:34):

And you can feel it in the studio. You can feel the community, the sense of community. People don't want to leave.

Charlie Sandlan (00:45:43):

No, they hang out here all day.

Trish Barillas (00:45:44):

They're just a gaggle of girls. I felt like I was in a nail salon the other day with everybody. But that speaks volumes about what you created and a space for people that want to stay there or do work there or hang out there.

Charlie Sandlan (00:46:02):

Yes. I mean, listen, I pride myself on being genuine, and no bullshit, and I keep it real. And so I think the students that are here, they know that I'm 100% invested in them. And what I say to them many times, especially when I'm pissed off at them, is that, "You are my art." And that's how I look at them. I look at these students as my art. I'm shaping them. I'm taking a group of people that know nothing about fucking acting, other than that they want to act. And in two years, I turn them into seriously well-trained actors who are open, present, available, in the moment, listening with empathy, sensitized to the human condition, capable of creating organic, vivid human behavior. And I did that. And so when it doesn't go well, or I have a bad class, it pisses the fuck out of me.

(00:47:02):

And that's what I say to them. I said, "This is not going well. I'm irritated." And I said, "If I'm irritated and I'm pissed off and you're not frustrated, you're not disappointed in yourself, what's that say about the type of career you want or the type of actor you want to be? I can't be more passionate about it than you." And so I just try to keep it real. And I think they like that. And the space is beautiful, it lends itself to wanting to hang out and be here. And I love that. I don't care if they stay here all day. Keep our dog quiet.

Trish Barillas (00:47:35):

Walter, it's okay. It's the neighbors. Well, he wasn't trained by his father.

Charlie Sandlan (00:47:43):

He wasn't trained by anybody. Who are we kidding?

Trish Barillas (00:47:46):

That's not true. He went through training.

Charlie Sandlan (00:47:48):

In theory.

Trish Barillas (00:47:48):

Don't you trash the doggy. Doggy, Wa-Wa, you're fine. So as a business owner having taken over Maggie's studio, then pandemic, moving to a new space, getting that off the ground, what is the hardest thing you feel or struggle with in keeping a studio alive in this era?

Charlie Sandlan (00:48:15):

Well, it's always about enrollment. It's nonstop. I mean, it's nonstop enrollment. It's about numbers, it's about getting good students, but I've got the summer session, then it's the fall, and then it's the January 1st year. So enrollment, that's it. That's what keeps the studio going. And in order to have enrollment, you've got to have something really valuable to offer. You've got to have a really great reputation. You've got to have really good word of mouth. And that's what we have. There's maybe eight studios here in the city that are really of any value. And even of those eight that have a reputation, maybe only two or three of them actually are any good. So most students don't do enough homework when they're looking around to find the right kind of environment and the right teacher for them. They waste a lot of money, spend a lot of money, piss it away, and years go by and they still don't know what to do.

Trish Barillas (00:49:32):

Right. Because you're not for everybody.

Charlie Sandlan (00:49:35):

No, I say that to my class, "I am not a teacher for everybody. This is not a studio for everybody. I don't take bullshit. I am not interested in your second best. I'm not interested in horseshit. I'm not interested in you getting by on your charms and personality and whatever bullshit you use to get by." Because that's what most people do. We're all guilty of this. For many, many, many years in my life, I did just enough to get by and I skated on my charm and my looks and my personality and my bullshit, my sense of humor.

PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:50:04]

Charlie Sandlan (00:50:03):

... on my charm and my looks and my personality, my bullshit, my sense of humor. But I was lazy. And most students, the majority, when they come here are lazy. And my job is to get them to understand what work ethic is, to get them to understand what it means to play full out with themselves. And then I ask them straight up, "Why is your second-best okay? Why is that okay with you? And you're telling me you want a professional acting career. You want to compete with the people that are coming out of NYU, Yale, Julliard, UCSD, Brown? You're working and competing against people that are obsessed. So you're kidding yourself if you're not willing to go the distance."

Trish Barillas (00:50:47):

Well, I think a lot of times, too, this notion of competition is not known to them, right?

Charlie Sandlan (00:50:54):

No.

Trish Barillas (00:50:54):

They're just going in and saying, "Okay, well, I just want to say that I've done this. Or I've gone through a two-year conservatory." But you're in a fight for your life. You're in a fight to get every single thing that you are going to get casted or whatever it might be. You are fighting against a million other people for the same role.

Charlie Sandlan (00:51:17):

We're not a million, but-

Trish Barillas (00:51:19):

So if you don't, well-

Charlie Sandlan (00:51:20):

But yeah. I mean, most people when they come to training or they come to a class, they have a sentimentalized view of acting. It comes from their childhood and watching movies, and maybe seeing theater. And this idea, "Well, I want to be an actor." And they see celebrity and fame, and the pop culture superficiality of it all. And it appeals to them, but they have absolutely no idea how hard it is to be a professional actor, and what it takes. And so my job is to wake them up, not just to the art form, but to make it clear to them what is going to be required of them if they want to be doing this when they're 50, 60, 70 years old. If they actually want to make money and not be waiting tables when they're 45.

Trish Barillas (00:52:08):

Right. And in full transparency, until I started dating you and got more invested in what goes on at the studio, I didn't know. I had no idea. I would be the worst student. I know this. And you would not be my teacher. That, I know.

Charlie Sandlan (00:52:27):

Why do you say that?

Trish Barillas (00:52:29):

Doing this podcast showed me that I think you'd kick me out, because your notes on doing this podcast, I want to choke you out.

Charlie Sandlan (00:52:41):

Well, that's-

Trish Barillas (00:52:41):

It's just talk. Just talk. Why aren't you-

Charlie Sandlan (00:52:43):

Right. You got to listen. That's something to discuss with your therapist. When you were really working on the open, you weren't talking. You sounded like some sort of, I don't know, salesman. I was just trying to get you to speak like you normally do. Speak like you do when you're doing Reels, when you're doing things on the 'Gram.

Trish Barillas (00:53:01):

On the internet, where you read-

Charlie Sandlan (00:53:05):

Yeah.

Trish Barillas (00:53:05):

On the worldwide web?

Charlie Sandlan (00:53:06):

On the web, on the internet.

Trish Barillas (00:53:10):

So let's change gears a bit. If it wasn't acting, and I know that you are very well-read, it's one of the things I fell in love with you is how well-read you are, very cultured. And I know that you have a love of politics, of all things. And you've said it before, that you would've looked into being a politician.

Charlie Sandlan (00:53:39):

Yeah, I do. I'm a politic junkie. So as you know, I love my-

Trish Barillas (00:53:46):

So is Maggie.

Charlie Sandlan (00:53:48):

Yeah. I mean, I love my CNN, I love my MSNBC. I love my New York Times. I love reading about politics. I'm very well-educated on it. No, I think I would've been a great politician. I just was taken by theater. And if you're going to be a politician, you have to A, know in advance how you're going to conduct your life, so you don't have a closet full of skeletons that'll derail you. And I have my skeletons, of course. And you have to conduct your life in a certain way. And you have to be clear-eyed from a young age, 20s, "I know I want to be doing this. I want to be a congressman, a senator," but I got taken with acting. But I think I would've been a great politician. I'm also very intrigued by government jobs. FBI. I wouldn't want to be a police officer, but the CIA, FBI. If I really had to do all over again, I would've learned multiple languages.

Trish Barillas (00:54:59):

I was just about to say, languages. Yes. But you still are not trying to learn Spanish.

Charlie Sandlan (00:55:05):

Listen, it's hard at 53 to try. I got Babel. I open it up. I'm trying.

Trish Barillas (00:55:11):

When's the last time you did the app? When?

Charlie Sandlan (00:55:14):

It's been months.

Trish Barillas (00:55:14):

Definitely not. Right. Okay. So priest, actor, politician, CIA, FBI. So those are-

Charlie Sandlan (00:55:27):

Those always intrigued me. Those always intrigued me. Those careers, those career paths. And I often kick myself for, I had to go down the fucking artist road. Because it's hard.

Trish Barillas (00:55:41):

But you've made it happen. You found your niche, you got involved in teaching, and that filled you up. And now you have a studio, which is turning, what, 20?

Charlie Sandlan (00:55:54):

The Maggie Flanigan Studio turned 20 in 2021. But I will be celebrating my 20th year at the studio next year. 2025 will be 20 years.

Trish Barillas (00:56:11):

Damn. So going at this for 20 years, I guess what was the hardest and what is the hardest thing? Aside from enrollment and just owning a business, and being an entrepreneur, what are the struggles that sometimes can often derail you of "Why am I doing this?" Because I'm sure you have those thoughts of "What am I doing?"

Charlie Sandlan (00:56:42):

All the time. All the time. Sometimes it's the students themselves that piss me the fuck off. And I think, "Why do I waste my fucking time doing this? This is fucking ridiculous." And then just the business side of it, I mean, yeah, you've got to make rent every month. You've got to have money to be able to pay marketing. You've got to be able to pay your electric bill. You've got to be able to find good teachers. You've got to be able to be clear on what the day-to-day is, and then putting out fires, putting out the shit that just comes up when you've got a group of human beings, volatile emotionally, and trying to learn how to collaborate with each other. Sometimes it's just, I do. I say to myself, "I can't believe I've strapped this fucking place to my back." And then it passes, and I realized that this is my life's work, and I love it.

Trish Barillas (00:57:37):

Well, and-

Charlie Sandlan (00:57:37):

And it's no different than students saying, "I don't want to be here today. I feel miserable."

(00:57:44):

I say to them, "Yeah, I feel fucking miserable, too. You think I want to be sitting here right now, teaching you? I don't, but I am. I'm giving you a hundred percent." That's one thing I will say. They never, ever, ever get less than a hundred percent of me. They get my 100% best effort every single day, every single class, every single minute. It takes a tremendous amount of concentration. I can't daydream. I can't wander off. I can't just sit there and stare off into the fucking abyss. I have to be in every single moment, in every single moment for nine hours a day. It's exhausting.

Trish Barillas (00:58:26):

Well, you are one of those people that I've always said since I've been with you that has the best discipline of anyone that I've ever met. Well, I'm telling you, that's how I feel.

Charlie Sandlan (00:58:41):

But what do you mean by that? The best discipline? I mean, I have a regimen. I have-

Trish Barillas (00:58:47):

But discipline's hard. And that's a question. Do you think discipline is innate or learned?

Charlie Sandlan (00:58:55):

It's learned.

Trish Barillas (00:58:56):

Being around you and knowing your lifestyle, you like to operate the same way. You like your structure.

Charlie Sandlan (00:59:02):

Love structure.

Trish Barillas (00:59:03):

And no matter what, when you say you're going to do something, you do that. You always do it.

Charlie Sandlan (00:59:10):

What do you mean?

Trish Barillas (00:59:10):

And whether that's, "Oh, I'm going to go to Rumble tomorrow," and you might have not slept, but you're going to Rumble regardless. If we have an event and you've had a tough day or something happened, you still show up. No matter what, if you have already agreed to do something, you a hundred percent show up for it. And a lot of people don't have that. And if you decide that, whether it's "I'm going to read these books," or "I'm going to not be drinking for a month," whatever it is that you do that you set your mind to, you make it a practice and you stick to it. And a lot of people struggle with that. It's not easy. I personally have really crappy discipline, as I'm sure you know.

Charlie Sandlan (00:59:56):

Oh, yes, I do.

Trish Barillas (01:00:01):

So I always found that-

Charlie Sandlan (01:00:03):

But you don't thrive in structure. You don't thrive in routine. Every day, it's just a crapshoot for you. But I know that I'm going to be at the studio from 9 to 9. If I want to work out, I've got to do a 7:00 AM workout. I want to get at least four workouts in a week. I know that I want at least seven to eight hours of sleep a night. And if I don't get that, it really fucks me. And so those are my priorities.

Trish Barillas (01:00:27):

But you're gifted in sleep. I think this is one of the biggest-

Charlie Sandlan (01:00:30):

I'm not an anxious. I'm a normal person.

Trish Barillas (01:00:38):

No, you're a non-anxious. Don't be turning this into something you don't want, my friend.

Charlie Sandlan (01:00:44):

I was just making sure you were listening.

Trish Barillas (01:00:46):

Don't go there.

Charlie Sandlan (01:00:46):

I just wanted to make sure you were listening.

Trish Barillas (01:00:48):

No, I went off in the abyss.

Charlie Sandlan (01:00:49):

Well, I mean, this is your first time hosting a podcast.

Trish Barillas (01:00:56):

So back to discipline. Yes, you are very disciplined. And I think for you, discipline is not easy. Really is something that people have to practice and commit to.

Charlie Sandlan (01:01:09):

It's habits.

Trish Barillas (01:01:13):

Correct. But as with your students, what's the general demographic, the age demographic?

Charlie Sandlan (01:01:20):

I would say the average demographic here is between 25 and 35. And then I've got a percentage that are 20, 21, 22. And I've got a percentage that are 40s, 50s, 60s, smaller percentage, but-

Trish Barillas (01:01:33):

Right. So the 20s, the early 20s-

Charlie Sandlan (01:01:36):

Early 20s, Jesus Christ.

Trish Barillas (01:01:41):

... they don't know what discipline is. They don't.

Charlie Sandlan (01:01:44):

They don't fucking know anything. And all of you out there, I love you. You know this, but come on. Well, listen. That's why I say to them, "You're only, what, maybe five years removed from teenage childhood, being parented. You're still trying to separate from the child. You're trying to enter into an adult world and conduct yourself in an adult world, and you don't know how it operates." I think the 20s suck. I know you were rocking out in your 20s, but I find the 20s to be very challenging. People are grappling with their childhood traumas, their mental health. I think if you, in your 20s, don't do important work on yourself, you're setting yourself up for a really difficult fucking life. I think the 20s are that decade is where you've got to really get your shit straight. You've got to really grow up. You've got to do hard work on yourself so that when you get into your 30s, there's a roadmap, some sort of direction that you can see yourself working towards. But I see a lot of my students in their 20s. It's just one big continual crisis.

Trish Barillas (01:03:03):

So you're saying that you have to do the work in your 20s? And really-

Charlie Sandlan (01:03:07):

I think so. Don't you?

Trish Barillas (01:03:10):

Well, I think we should always be doing the work. But what was the work that you did? So did you yourself go to therapy in 20s?

Charlie Sandlan (01:03:17):

God, absolutely. I was in therapy for a good three, four years. And I've said this to you. I wasn't fucked up by my parents, and most people are fucked up by their parents. And I had two parents that, and I mean this, never, ever had anything negative to say about me, to me or my sister. They were incredibly encouraging, incredibly supporting. It didn't matter what we wanted to do. We could do it. We would be good at it. "You're going to be great. This was wonderful." And whether that was true or not, I came out of my childhood pretty well-adjusted. And I think most people aren't that lucky. And they can-

Trish Barillas (01:04:07):

Well, there's just a lot of family dynamics.

Charlie Sandlan (01:04:09):

That's right.

Trish Barillas (01:04:09):

And I think it absolutely is impossible for kid to come unscathed, because parents, everyone's doing the best they can. Trauma can be trauma from anything. It doesn't have to be severe trauma, physical, sexual.

Charlie Sandlan (01:04:25):

No, but I mean, I was molested by a priest when I was 13, and I've talked about this before, but I was able to call my parents immediately and it was talked through, and I was supported. And in my 20s, I had to unpack it in therapy, but I just had a very supportive nuclear family. And I think people that come out with a very supportive nuclear family have a much better, easier time in life.

Trish Barillas (01:05:01):

That's fair. I would say easier. I mean, unconditional love is a basic need. Right?

Charlie Sandlan (01:05:06):

Very. Unconditional, yeah.

Trish Barillas (01:05:06):

Basic need. And if you don't know unconditional love, you will search your whole life finding it in ways that are probably unhealthy.

Charlie Sandlan (01:05:18):

Absolutely. That's a really good thing. Unconditional love. And if you have been rejected or abandoned by your father, that's one major thing. But if you've been abandoned or-

Trish Barillas (01:05:31):

Either.

Charlie Sandlan (01:05:31):

But no, I think if you've been abandoned or rejected by your mother, that is very, very, very difficult to overcome. That's the most important relationship of your life.

Trish Barillas (01:05:41):

Yes. Well, we'll not make this into some analytical therapy session.

Charlie Sandlan (01:05:49):

Listen, this is the way the conversation is going.

Trish Barillas (01:05:51):

It's all important. I get it.

Charlie Sandlan (01:05:52):

You have to let the conversation flow, baby.

Trish Barillas (01:05:57):

Don't call me "baby."

Charlie Sandlan (01:05:58):

Why not, boo?

Trish Barillas (01:06:00):

You don't call me anything. You just call me Trish. Can you explain why you've never been able to figure out a nickname for me?

Charlie Sandlan (01:06:07):

Because all the good nicknames, all the other fucking dickbags you dated already used them, so I can't be-

Trish Barillas (01:06:14):

No, they were not dickbags. I did not date a lot of dickbags.

Charlie Sandlan (01:06:17):

Okay. Well, the guys-

Trish Barillas (01:06:18):

I actually had very healthy relationships.

Charlie Sandlan (01:06:20):

The long line of men that you've dated have taken up all of the nicknames.

Trish Barillas (01:06:26):

Don't shame me for having a very fluid and bountiful dating experience.

Charlie Sandlan (01:06:33):

Well, that's one way to put it.

Trish Barillas (01:06:35):

Yeah. And as men who have bountiful dating experiences-

Charlie Sandlan (01:06:39):

Absolutely.

Trish Barillas (01:06:41):

... well, women can have the same.

Charlie Sandlan (01:06:42):

Of course. Listen, I'm equal opportunist.

Trish Barillas (01:06:47):

So let's jump into some questions, shall we?

Charlie Sandlan (01:06:50):

Isn't that what we've been doing?

Trish Barillas (01:06:50):

We have questions.

Charlie Sandlan (01:06:50):

You talking questions from-

Trish Barillas (01:06:53):

No, these are specific questions from your IG followers, students, former students, et cetera. All right. Let's jump on in. Charlie, if you were stranded on an island, what one play would you take with you?

Charlie Sandlan (01:07:10):

One play?

Trish Barillas (01:07:12):

That's the question.

Charlie Sandlan (01:07:16):

Well, if I was stranded on a desert island, I would probably take Hamlet, just because it's so epic. It's so deep. I could spend many, many, many years trying to unpack it and understand it, as opposed to some maybe contemporary play that wouldn't challenge me. But I think that would be a wonderful thing. If I was stranded on a desert island, yeah, I would take Hamlet.

Trish Barillas (01:07:45):

What role do you daydream about playing?

Charlie Sandlan (01:07:50):

Well, some of the roles, now I'm a little too old for, but I always wanted to play Eddie in Fool for Love by Sam Shepard. I was always intrigued by that play. I think it's an excellent play, and I would've been really good in that part. I always wanted to play Brick in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, but I just didn't have the physique for it. He's a former football player, but I understand it, and I think it's a great part. Those are two.

Trish Barillas (01:08:27):

Okay. This is one of my favorite questions that have been asked is let's talk about your third nipple.

Charlie Sandlan (01:08:35):

Sure. It's a great icebreaker. What do you want to know?

Trish Barillas (01:08:39):

Yes. It's also your little party trick. The question is, it just said, "Let's talk about it." So explain-

Charlie Sandlan (01:08:46):

"Let's talk about your third nipple"? Who asked that? Katie?

Trish Barillas (01:08:51):

It doesn't matter. These are anonymous, sir.

Charlie Sandlan (01:08:53):

Oh, please.

Trish Barillas (01:08:54):

So you have a third nipple.

Charlie Sandlan (01:08:56):

I do. It's an eensy, teensy little nipple.

Trish Barillas (01:09:01):

Does it have feeling?

Charlie Sandlan (01:09:03):

No.

Trish Barillas (01:09:04):

Does it have sensation to it?

Charlie Sandlan (01:09:05):

No, but it does have a little nipple, as you know.

Trish Barillas (01:09:09):

No, I know I know. But for viewers, obviously, they-

Charlie Sandlan (01:09:12):

Listeners-

Trish Barillas (01:09:12):

They're trying to imagine it.

Charlie Sandlan (01:09:13):

For listeners. For listeners, babe.

Trish Barillas (01:09:14):

For listeners, they're trying to imagine it. So it's a little teeny, teeny-tiny nipple-

Charlie Sandlan (01:09:19):

Yeah.

Trish Barillas (01:09:20):

... that sits-

Charlie Sandlan (01:09:20):

If you stood across from me, it would look like a birthmark under my left titty. And then if you get close to it, and you actually touch it and rub it, you're like, "Oh my God, that's a nipple." And I say, "Yes, it is."

Trish Barillas (01:09:42):

I hope nobody goes up to you and tries to touch and fondle your little third nipple.

Charlie Sandlan (01:09:49):

Listen, I've pulled it out before in certain social occasions when people are interested. It doesn't matter.

Trish Barillas (01:09:55):

Okay. And when did you-

Charlie Sandlan (01:09:57):

It's not like I have three testicles. I wouldn't be showing that off. But-

Trish Barillas (01:10:02):

No, I would think that would be hard to manage life with three testicles.

Charlie Sandlan (01:10:07):

I would think so, too. And I bet there are people out there that have three testicles.

Trish Barillas (01:10:11):

And some of these, you basically have answered during our talk, but I'll go through. There's some that are worth asking. What is the best advice you would give yourself 20 years ago?

Charlie Sandlan (01:10:27):

Wow. What advice would I give myself? Stop being a victim and get on the other side of this feeling that "When is it going to happen for me? When is my life going to start?" In my 20s, I was very unsatisfied. And I would've just have counseled, "Just patience. Just patience."

Trish Barillas (01:11:05):

20 years ago, wouldn't you be in your 30s?

Charlie Sandlan (01:11:07):

So, God, I'm getting so much older. So in 30 years ago, fuck. 30. Yeah. I moved to New York on June 9th, 1993 and-

Trish Barillas (01:11:20):

1993. Many people that are listening were not born.

Charlie Sandlan (01:11:23):

Right. I was 22, getting ready to turn 23, and had never been to New York. Came here with a bag and about $800, got a sublet with one of my friends from Purdue, Tim Covington. And there was impatience, a lot of impatience in my '20s.

Trish Barillas (01:11:44):

And we went into this, but I just want to ask the question, how is MFS different or unique from places like Bill Esper, Terry Knickerbocker, Stella, et cetera?

Charlie Sandlan (01:11:57):

See, I get students, when I interview them, they'll ask me this question. " What makes you different from the Esper Studio or from Neighborhood Playhouse, or from Terry Knickerbocker?"

(01:12:09):

And I say to them, "I'm not going to get into specifics about that." I said, "I know what I do, and I'm not going to bash anybody, or I'm not going to disparage another studio, but I can tell you what we are and what we are not. What I am not is a factory. I don't have 400 students and 10 teachers, and I don't just throw people into a classroom with teachers that are pulling out notes from classes they took and bullshit their way through it. I don't put my students in the room with hacks, and I don't treat them as numbers. I actually interview every single student that comes into the studio. I don't pawn that off onto another teacher. I don't pawn that off onto my studio manager. I interview everybody so that every single person that walks these halls has sat with me, talked with me, and we have made a decision together that, A, you want to be here, because you think I can inspire you and that the studio can really teach you, and that I want to teach you. I'm interested in-"

Trish Barillas (01:13:12):

Get it. Get it.

Charlie Sandlan (01:13:13):

"Please. I'm interested investing a hundred percent of myself in every person that's here. I also don't feel the need to try to poach teachers from other studios, which is what happens to me all the time. There's a particular studio out there where the owner of that studio likes to reach out to my teachers and tries to get them to leave my studio for them, because they're desperate for good teachers. Every single one of my teachers here, they are committed to the art of teaching. They're not frustrated actors that are just biding time between jobs. They're exceptional at what they do."

(01:13:58):

"And the studio is purposefully intimate. It is a boutique studio. I'm not trying to cram 22 students into a classroom and think that I could teach you in three hours. And because I've crammed 22, well, I'll just make it a four-hour class, because I don't have respect for your time. We'll just make it a four, four-and-a-half-hour class. I think that's bullshit. My class goes from 10:00 to 1:00, 2:00 to 5:00, 6:00 to 9:00. You're out. I know how to manage my time. I know how to teach. I know how to conduct a class. And also, I am available. I am an owner, a master teacher, an artistic director that is available to my students, that doesn't look at down at them or doesn't set up a wall or a barrier that I'm this all-knowing God, and you're to bow down before me. There are studios that are like that." So that's what I say to people that want to know the difference. And then I say to them, "Do your homework. Go-"

PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [01:15:04]

Charlie Sandlan (01:15:03):

... the difference. And then I say to them, "Do your homework. Go to these places. Go through the process of interviewing at these studios, and you will find out for yourself, your gut will tell you where you want to go, where you think you're going to feel safe, where you think, I mean, where do you want to spend your time? Every studio's got their own aesthetic, their own idea of the kind of environment they want to create when you step off that elevator. Do your homework, and if I'm right for you and you're right for me, then there's a place for you here, and I will turn you into a serious fucking actor."

Trish Barillas (01:15:40):

Well said.

Charlie Sandlan (01:15:41):

Thank you.

Trish Barillas (01:15:43):

What is it like being married to somebody with a mental disorder?

Charlie Sandlan (01:15:49):

Well, as my listeners know, we have discussed this at length in A Face of Anxiety part one, A Face of Anxiety part two, and A Face of Anxiety part three. But I will just say currently it's required a tremendous amount of patience and love because you've been in it off and on here for a number of months. And now that I know what you need, now that I know what you need, I know how you get yourself through panic attacks. I know how you get yourself through your body kind of sabotaging you. I just give you your space and just try to be a source of calm and be steady with you, and just know that as long as you know that I'm here and that I'm not going anywhere, you manage yourself the way you need to.

(01:16:49):

So I mean, I feel for you. I feel bad that you have to suffer in this way because it is a suffering. And then everybody out there that has generalized anxiety disorder, panic attacks, that's a very difficult thing to navigate. But you have a full life and you're able to bring all of yourself to everything that you do, and you still grapple with these things. I think you're incredibly resilient.

Trish Barillas (01:17:18):

Well, thank you.

Charlie Sandlan (01:17:19):

You're welcome.

Trish Barillas (01:17:22):

I appreciate that. Yes, I do find comfort knowing that you're just there. I don't need anything from you, but knowing that you're not going anywhere. And that also is filed under unconditional love, right?

Charlie Sandlan (01:17:38):

Yes.

Trish Barillas (01:17:39):

When you feel a sense of safety, and a lot of my followers will always say, "How does Charlie handle it? What does he do for you?" And I hear often that people use their partners as crutches and, "Oh, I'm not safe if they're not with me. I can't travel without so-and-so. I have to call so- and-so." And I've been that person years ago. I've used relationships and boyfriends as my crutch. The danger with that is they're not always going to be around, not meaning the relationship will end, but what if they're physically not able to get to you or talk to you? It just puts you in a very dangerous situation because we should always rely on ourselves to get us through. And there's multiple times where you are in class or you have a big day tomorrow and you're sleeping. I want to take on my disorder because it's mine and not have it really inflict or impact the person that I share a life with. Right. So I'm sure it's not something that you thought you would sign up for, or it wasn't like-

Charlie Sandlan (01:18:52):

No, but on date two, you did tell me. You didn't withhold it. You told me exactly what was going on with you. I guess I didn't really know what that meant, and now I do.

Trish Barillas (01:19:05):

I recall saying that I frequent hospitals, because that used to be my story. And in our entire years together, you've been in hospital more than me.

Charlie Sandlan (01:19:16):

Oh, wow, interesting. Well, that's because I face planted on my scooter and smashed my face and cracked my tooth off. That's the only time I've been in the hospital.

Trish Barillas (01:19:25):

Food poisoning. Crema in Guatemala.

Charlie Sandlan (01:19:28):

Oh, Jesus Christ. I tell you, you Guats, your mother has wrecked me multiple times.

Trish Barillas (01:19:34):

Stop believing her. Stop trusting her.

Charlie Sandlan (01:19:37):

Now, of course. I mean, she puts down a bowl of fucking creme fraiche at the farm, and I tell that was horrific. So you're right. I have been... That's right. Well, the thing about you is I just tell you, you'll say to me, "Do I need to go to the hospital?" "No, you don't." I just keep telling you that.

Trish Barillas (01:19:56):

That's true. Your food poisoning, we needed to get you help.

Charlie Sandlan (01:19:59):

Absolutely.

Trish Barillas (01:19:59):

That was aggressive. And after you fell off your scooter without wearing a helmet, it was smart to get your head checked.

Charlie Sandlan (01:20:10):

Yeah.

Trish Barillas (01:20:11):

And you lost half your tooth.

Charlie Sandlan (01:20:16):

I did. I had to get bonded, my front tooth, a fucking hillbilly.

Trish Barillas (01:20:20):

Okay, moving on. How patient and or encouraging are you with students who are struggling but trying to work hard?

Charlie Sandlan (01:20:29):

That's all I ask. Listen, I don't care about failure. I say to them that I want you to fail, I expect you to fail, and I expect you to struggle. That is what it means to be creative. It is part of the creative process is to struggle with a problem. The only thing, and I say, "The only time you're going to have a problem with me, meaning like you're going to me off, is if you're lazy and you are defensive with criticism. But if you play full out with yourself and you've really put the time and the effort in to try to do your best, and it doesn't go well, I have no problem with that. Zero. That's what I want." I mean, nothing good happens in life if it hasn't been built on failure. And it gets very frustrating because they want to do well.

(01:21:15):

There's nothing more aggravating than spending hours on something, spending hours to get something prepared and have it be garbage. That's a very difficult thing for them to navigate through, the struggle of creativity. And I say, "Yeah, I know you spent 15 hours this week and it didn't really add up too much, but this is why you're here. You're learning. And so, if you can have an appetite for struggle, if you can have an appetite for failure, and you can say to yourself, what did I learn? If you can use your mistakes as discoveries and intervene with that inner critic that's going to fucking just light you up at every opportunity, then you have a chance to be a professional creative."

(01:22:09):

Because there's a big difference between saying I like acting, I like writing. I'm a poet. I love to fucking diddle in my notebook and trying to be a professional writer, a professional actor, a professional musician, a professional, anything. And most of my students aren't going to be actors. They're going to go off and do something else, but I will tell you, they're going to go off and do something else more open, more empathic, more present with incredible listening skills and a work ethic that has been forged here.

Trish Barillas (01:22:47):

Well, and speaking on the work ethic, you were so dedicated to this podcast. It started in the attic-

Charlie Sandlan (01:22:56):

Fuck.

Trish Barillas (01:22:56):

... in Guatemala, but you were giving me great data about how many podcasts actually make it.

Charlie Sandlan (01:23:05):

Yeah, very few. There's about 8 million podcasts out there, I think, something like that. 25% actually make it to 100 episodes, and I will be at episode 100 in season 5.

Trish Barillas (01:23:15):

There you go.

Charlie Sandlan (01:23:18):

Most podcasts get under 20 downloads an episode. If you're getting more than 150 episodes, you're in the top 18% of all podcasts. So this podcast is a very specific niche, and it's successful because I'm talking to the people that I want to talk to.

Trish Barillas (01:23:46):

Remind us again what's the number one downloaded episode of yours?

Charlie Sandlan (01:23:51):

Yes. I believe you already said this earlier in the episode, but-

Trish Barillas (01:23:55):

I did.

Charlie Sandlan (01:23:56):

... A Face of Anxiety one from season one. Your first time on the podcast is the most downloaded podcast of creating behavior.

Trish Barillas (01:24:05):

Why do you think that is?

Charlie Sandlan (01:24:07):

You have a lot of followers and you combine your followers with my followers. When you have Melissa Wood hyping up the episode as well, Melissa Wood Health, that is going to get a lot of those fucking people as well.

Trish Barillas (01:24:25):

I also feel, one, it was exact timing. It was pandemic times. People were losing their shit. There was a ton of anxiety. I think it was just the right episode for what was happening in current events.

Charlie Sandlan (01:24:41):

Sure. Well, and now it's every season you come on in the second to last episode. So for all my daydreamers out there, my next episode will be the seasoned finale of Creating Behavior. We're going to wrap up season four. I'm going to take a couple months off, and then get back up on it for season five.

Trish Barillas (01:25:07):

Do you ever ask people what they want to hear?

Charlie Sandlan (01:25:10):

No, but I do say, listen, I tell them all, and I'm still trying to get more people to do this. I say you can leave me a voice message. You can leave me a message on the podcast website creatingbehaviorpodcast.com. I say this all the time, go to the contact page, hit the red button, and you can leave a voice message. It gets emailed to me, and then I can actually send a voice message back to you. You can ask me questions, you can talk about something you want me to address on the podcast. So it's out there for people that want to reach out to me.

Trish Barillas (01:25:45):

So as we wrap up, let's do a really quick speed round where I ask you questions, don't think about it, say the first thing that pops into your head.

Charlie Sandlan (01:25:53):

Out of your Head on your spontaneous impulses. That's what I'm talking about.

Trish Barillas (01:25:56):

Let's go. Okay. What has been one of your favorite books that you've read this year?

Charlie Sandlan (01:26:03):

Barbara Streisand's autobiography. It's great.

Trish Barillas (01:26:08):

What is one of your favorite dishes that you could eat every single day for the rest of your life?

Charlie Sandlan (01:26:13):

Pizza, pepperoni pizza.

Trish Barillas (01:26:18):

What is one of your favorite restaurants in all of New York City?

Charlie Sandlan (01:26:22):

Mo's General, great pizza place, big shout out.

Trish Barillas (01:26:26):

That's in Brooklyn, that's in Williamsburg.

Charlie Sandlan (01:26:28):

It is. It's on Lorimer. Mo's General is some of the best pizza I've ever had. It's our friends Mac and Jen who own and run Mo's General. I love it. We drive out there just for the fucking pizza. We'll haul our ass out to Brooklyn just to have that pizza.

Trish Barillas (01:26:47):

True, true. All truth. If you had to go on a road trip with three celebrities that are currently alive, who would they be?

Charlie Sandlan (01:26:56):

Margot Robbie because she's so fucking hot. Mahershala Ali and Bradley Cooper.

Trish Barillas (01:27:11):

Bradley Cooper.

Charlie Sandlan (01:27:12):

Yeah. I think he's a hell of a artist, and I think we'd have some great conversation.

Trish Barillas (01:27:21):

What is your favorite genre of music?

Charlie Sandlan (01:27:23):

Well, probably what I listen to most is jazz, but I also love '90s rap, and I love good pot music. I mean, right now, Post Malone, I can listen to Post Malone anytime. I think he's fucking great. The guy does not put out a bad song.

Trish Barillas (01:27:41):

What's your number one karaoke song? What's your go-to karaoke song?

Charlie Sandlan (01:27:44):

I got a couple. We'll go Mack The Knife, little Bobby Darin if I'm feeling-

Trish Barillas (01:27:51):

What is that? I don't know what that is. Sing it. Singing a little bit.

Charlie Sandlan (01:27:52):

(singing).

Trish Barillas (01:28:03):

Okay. All right. Moving on, moving on. Oh, my gosh.

Charlie Sandlan (01:28:08):

(singing).

Trish Barillas (01:28:10):

You do know My mother thinks that you are a phenomenal singer.

Charlie Sandlan (01:28:13):

That's crazy. I don't know where she would fucking get that. When do I sing in front of your mother?

Trish Barillas (01:28:18):

We've spent months with these people.

Charlie Sandlan (01:28:21):

I just maybe singing in the hallway or walking down the stairs, whistling a tune?

Trish Barillas (01:28:27):

Just singing. You sing Frank Sinatra in the car a lot.

Charlie Sandlan (01:28:30):

I love Sinatra. It Had To Be You. I love that. That's a good karaoke song. (singing).

Trish Barillas (01:28:38):

What are you currently watching as a series?

Charlie Sandlan (01:28:47):

(Singing).

Trish Barillas (01:28:47):

Come on, popper. Come on, focus.

Charlie Sandlan (01:28:50):

Listen, I don't do that. I don't do that to my guests. If they're on a riff and they're doing something, you got to sit back and just let it unfold. You sabotage.

Trish Barillas (01:28:58):

Sit back, relax, and let the shit go. Sit back, relax, and let the shit go. What are you watching? What's your series?

Charlie Sandlan (01:29:03):

You need hosting Skills 101. What I'm binging right now, it's a little just, it's popcorn kind of mindlessness. I'm watching Reacher on Amazon. I'm enjoying that just because the violence is really great. This guy, Jack Reacher is just a bad motherfucker. And so, I am enjoying watching that unfold. Movies, Anatomy of a Fall, which I've talked about I believe on this podcast, I think was incredible. Sandra Huller is really doing exceptional work. I love The Morning Show. We binge that together.

Trish Barillas (01:29:50):

I love that.

Charlie Sandlan (01:29:51):

Enjoy it. It's popcorn stuff. Lioness-

Trish Barillas (01:29:55):

Plain and fluffy.

Charlie Sandlan (01:29:56):

Lioness, I really loved. That's another Taylor Sheridan show. We saw that with, it's a very female-centric CIA spy ops thriller. That was great. We binged that. And Slow Horses, which I've talked about on this podcast with Gary Oldman. I think it's the best work Gary Oldman's done. It's an incredible fucking performance. Transformational and it's well written and well acted. So I would say right now, my favorite show is Slow Horses.

Trish Barillas (01:30:28):

And obviously, through the years, a lot of your students have given you some amazing presence, really heartfelt gifts. Give me two of your favorite gifts that you ever received from your students.

Charlie Sandlan (01:30:43):

The Audio-Technica record player and the vinyl collection that they gave me. That was my class from I think maybe 2017.

Trish Barillas (01:30:55):

Wait, that record player was a gift?

Charlie Sandlan (01:30:56):

Yeah, it was a end of year gift. Yeah, my students got me that.

Trish Barillas (01:30:59):

Wow, I didn't know that. Damn, that's a baller gift.

Charlie Sandlan (01:31:04):

It was fucking great.

Trish Barillas (01:31:04):

What year was that?

Charlie Sandlan (01:31:05):

I want to say like 2016, maybe 2017. Somewhere around there. It was a great gift. I had a really lovely, an album put together. This leather album. In the middle was this picture of Meisner teaching, and then all of my students had postcards and they just wrote these really wonderful, thoughtful messages to me about their time here. And I still have it on my shelf back there. I look at it every once in a while. Those are really two thoughtful gifts. I've had many really thoughtful gifts. Students are really generous and kind.

Trish Barillas (01:31:53):

Yeah, that's the first I heard about the record player. Thanks students of 2016. I love that record player. And then, my last question is from me.

Charlie Sandlan (01:32:04):

Really? So you got to do it the right way. You got to say it, "Now. Let's get out of here on this." Then you got to say, "Thank you for coming. I really appreciate this. You're an incredible guest. I'm really honored and privileged to speak to you. Let's get out of here on this."

Trish Barillas (01:32:20):

But I have one more question.

Charlie Sandlan (01:32:22):

I know, but that's the last question.

Trish Barillas (01:32:23):

Oh, okay. So wait, see, when you tell me what to say, that's where I get stuck. It's like I can't remember all that crap.

Charlie Sandlan (01:32:31):

How hard is it? Give it a shot.

Trish Barillas (01:32:33):

Bro-

Charlie Sandlan (01:32:34):

You got to thank me for coming on. And then you've got to say, "Let's get out of here on this." Because I got to know when I'm going to fade the music up.

Trish Barillas (01:32:42):

Okay. Charlie, thank you for coming on as my guest for Creating Behavior Podcast. I need to do this again, so thank you and then let's leave with this?

Charlie Sandlan (01:32:56):

Just do it. Let's get out of here. As you like to say, Charlie, let's get out of here on this one.

Trish Barillas (01:33:00):

Okay. Charlie, thank you for coming on as a guest on Creating Behavior Podcast.

Charlie Sandlan (01:33:05):

Why can't you just say this honestly and genuinely? Why does it have to sound like you're full of shit?

Trish Barillas (01:33:10):

Ready? Charles?

Charlie Sandlan (01:33:13):

Yeah.

Trish Barillas (01:33:14):

Thank you for coming on to my-

Charlie Sandlan (01:33:15):

On your face? I'm keeping that in. That's funny.

Trish Barillas (01:33:21):

No, stop it. It's disgusting. Don't do that.

Charlie Sandlan (01:33:24):

Listen, you also call me poopy, pooper. You refer to me as fecal matter. I don't like it. Poopy, popper, poopy.

Trish Barillas (01:33:32):

No, popper is cute.

Charlie Sandlan (01:33:34):

Pooper.

Trish Barillas (01:33:34):

Okay, Charlie, thank you for coming onto this podcast as a guest. Really enjoyed our time together. So as you would say, let's leave with this.

Charlie Sandlan (01:33:44):

No, let's get out of here on this one.

Trish Barillas (01:33:46):

Oh, that doesn't even make sense. Let's get out of here? We're not physically leaving anywhere.

Charlie Sandlan (01:33:53):

I will be when... I'm close to packing my bags, out the door. Just try it again.

Trish Barillas (01:34:02):

Charlie, thank you for coming on the podcast.

Charlie Sandlan (01:34:05):

You can't do it genuinely.

Trish Barillas (01:34:09):

Charlie, thank you for coming on the fucking podcast. Really appreciate your time and your effort and your relentless notes. Really appreciate it. Thank you. You've been the best guest I've ever had.

Charlie Sandlan (01:34:21):

And the last guest you'll ever have.

Trish Barillas (01:34:23):

And the last guest I'll ever have. So let's get out of here on this, which I don't think makes any sense, but we'll go with your verbiage. Besides your grit and tenacity, what things have made you who you are?

Charlie Sandlan (01:34:38):

Well, I think that my parents and their love and support has instilled a good, healthy self-esteem, which I'm very, very grateful for. And I've also been very lucky to have some very important mentors. And I don't think that that's anything I take lightly because I don't think a lot of people have them. I've been lucky to have three really important people that helped shape me as an artist, as a man. One, Rich Rand, my first real serious theater teacher at Purdue who has come on the show. He came on the show in season one, has become a very dear friend. We've been in each other's lives now for 33 years. He was the first person to really get me to understand that I needed to stop being a lazy shit, so to speak, in so many words. And he introduced me to what the beauty of acting could be.

(01:35:45):

And then, there was Maggie who really changed the course of my entire life and what she instilled in me about artistry, about work ethic, about just the beauty of what acting can be and how hard it is and what a gift it is if you're going to pursue this with your life. Everything I have as a professional, creative person I owe to her.

(01:36:14):

And then, I had a very dear friend, Victoria Mastrobuono, who was in my life for about six years before she died of cancer. I was privileged enough to hold her in my arms as she died. I spent the last three or four days of her life with her in her house. She was a remarkable woman, and she really didn't let me get away with anything. She helped me understand what character means and what respect means. She gave me a lot of things to think about and carry with me. So I would say that mentoring and being mentored is a very important thing, and I'm very, very lucky to have had that in my life and I'm just really lucky.

Trish Barillas (01:37:10):

Well, my fellow daydreamers, thank you for sticking around and keeping that phone in your pocket. Spread the word and create behavior. It is for creatives and actors. You can listen anywhere that you get your podcasts. Do Charlie a solid, write a review on iTunes. And don't forget to subscribe and follow. I am taking on new clients. You can always book a free consult at trishbarillas.com. Stay up to date on workshops and webinars. Follow me on the gram @tbarillas. I specialize in anxiety, breakups, job advancements, and relationships. Don't forget to follow Charlie on the gram @maggieflaniganstudio @creatingbehavior. Thank you Lawrence Trailer for the song. For my anxious friends, stay present, fight for your light, be kind to yourself. I'm Trish Barillas, peace.

PART 4 OF 4 ENDS [01:38:38]