094 Season 4 Finale!

Well fellow daydreamers, another sixteen episodes in the can! In this season's final episode, Charlie shares some thoughts on the actor Barry Keoghan and his performance in Saltburn, the movie American Fiction, and a new book called Hits, Flops, and Other Illusions, by the director Ed Zwick. Of course it would not be a season finale without some of the best clips from all of Charlie's guests. Creating Behavior will take a few months off, and be back in early summer for season 5. In the meantime, stay resilient, play full out with yourself, and don't ever settle for your second best. You can follow CBP on Instagram @creatingbehavior, and Charlie's NYC acting conservatory, the Maggie Flanigan Studio @maggieflaniganstudio. Theme music by  https://www.thelawrencetrailer.com. For written transcripts, to leave a voicemail on SpeakPipe, or contact Charlie for private coaching, check out https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com

Transcript

Charlie Sandlan (00:03):

So I remember when I was sitting down in Guatemala in 2020 after our disastrous wedding day and the pandemic that ensued, and I decided I was going to do this. Podcast and I had bought a package, a tutorial package from this guy named Pat Flynn, very popular podcaster, and he has a course on how to start a podcast. And he said, "Listen, you need [00:00:30] to know that you could do 40 episodes before you even record your first one." And I thought to myself, 40 fucking episodes. So I remember sitting down at a table and trying to just come up with 40 different things. After about seven or eight, I was completely blank. I thought, "This is ridiculous. There's no way I'm going to be able to sustain any kind of longevity." Then here we are, episode 94. We're going to wrap up things this season. [00:01:00] I've got a couple of articles to talk about, some films that I've seen recently that I find interesting, and some clips from the last 16 episodes that I find interesting. So put the phone back in your pocket. The season four finale of Creating Behavior starts now.

(01:21):

Well, [00:01:30] hello, my fellow daydreamers. Here we are, episode 94. Like I said in the open, I look back at the struggle it took for me to just [00:02:00] plan out 40 topics that I could talk about on this show, and how overwhelming it seemed to me at the time. I just could not envision even doing 40 episodes. And now here we are. It's episode 94, we're wrapping up season four. It's crazy to me. And honestly, what I really need to be doing is thanking you. So that's what I'm going to do right now. Thank you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for following [00:02:30] the show. Thank you for telling your friends about it. I'm into numbers and stats, so I'm always looking to daily downloads and what episodes are getting the most listens and all that sort of stuff. But just on the numbers alone, we are in the top 25% of all podcasts that are out there, and that's over four million.

(02:58):

And season five [00:03:00] is going to be a big one for creating behavior because we're going to hit the 100th episode, and there are only, about 10% of all podcasts actually record 100 episodes. So we're going to get to that. We're going to blow by that. So season five is a big deal, so I look forward to it. How we'll celebrate, I don't know, but the 100th episode will be a humdinger for sure. [00:03:30] Anyway, I thought I would just share a couple of things before we say goodbye for a while. I finally saw Saltburn, and for some reason I was putting it off. It just seemed, I don't know, unoriginal. I've seen The Talented Mr. Ripley. I understand the whole idea. This guy comes into a rich world and blows it up. But there was a really great article [00:04:00] in GQ. I'll tell you, if you're not getting GQ as part of your feed, you really should. They have great articles.

(04:07):

A lot of what I share with you during a season comes from shit I've read in GQ, and there's a really great article by Alex Papadimas featuring Barry Keoghan. He's a very good actor, Barry Keoghan. I thought he was really good in the Killing of a Sacred Deer. [00:04:30] I thought he was excellent in the Banshees of Inisherin, the Martin McDonagh film, I believe he was nominated for an Oscar for that. He's a courageous actor, is what I would say. He is inventive, and the guy takes risks, and you get a script, you read it, there's going to be some clues, some ideas that the writer's going to give you, and then there are going to be these moments [00:05:00] that are just going to be left up to you and your imagination, and what you do and how you choose to behave has to come from a really deep understanding of the character.

(05:18):

And in Saltburn, I'm going to tell you, this guy has a hell of a lot of ideas. There's an excerpt from Alex's article. She's [00:05:30] talking about a particular moment in the script, in the film at one point, his best friend dies and you end up finding out how he dies, but he's dead. And there's a scene, it's pouring down rain. The funeral's happened. He's at the grave site. He's standing over his friend's grave. It is really just the dug up churned earth that's been filled in over the coffin. And in the scene, [00:06:00] Keoghan gets completely naked, and fucks the dirt, fucks the dirt over his friend's coffin. This is his male friend I should also just say just for some context, and he's sobbing, he's weeping as he's making love to the dirt, I guess is the best way to describe it.

(06:22):

Here's an excerpt from the GQ article, which I just think is very telling about his own creativity. [00:06:30] In Fennell's script, the last stage direction in that scene reads, then slowly weeping he undresses... Okay, now you're reading that script and that's the only suggestion that's given to you. Then slowly weeping, he undresses... And then the article goes on. On the day, [00:07:00] Fennell said, she told Keoghan, "I just have the feeling that Oliver would unzip." Keoghan said, "Yep." And Fennell cleared the set, not quite knowing where Keoghan would take it. "Unzipping is one thing," she said, "But talk about taking an idea and running with it." It was an incredibly [00:07:30] courageous thing to do as an actor, and it made sense. It made sense from the psychology of the character. It said something about the intensity of that relationship, which was unconsummated, I should add, in the movie.

(07:48):

And I don't think that it was done in a way to just be deliberately shocking. It really made sense, and it kind of led you into the depravity, [00:08:00] the pain, the loneliness, just the psychology of the character. It was an incredible scene. I tell you, I've never seen anything like it. And the Killing of a Sacred Deer, this polite sociopath that he plays is excellent. He's kind of creepy. That's the vibe he can give off. There's just something unsettling and creepy about his work, and it's compelling. His eyes just jump right off [00:08:30] the camera, piercing eyes. You can't teach that. If you've got a really great set of eyes, captivating, unnerving pair of eyes, you've got a really good shot at a career. And throwing talent and everything else that comes along with that.

(08:53):

But the guy is really, he's got a lot of truth, a lot of truth in what he does. And his chemistry [00:09:00] in that film with Jacob Elordi was off the hook. And there's another scene. It's this close-up shot. He watches his friend jerk off in a bathtub, and there's this close-up scene where you're watching the tub drain out, okay. Jacob's left. His character's gone. He went into his bedroom. So Keoghan's character is in there by himself, and there's this really close-up shot. He's got his [00:09:30] head in the tub on the bottom of the bathtub right by the drain, and he's sucking up and drinking the bathtub water as it drains out of the tub. It is A, disgusting, B, erotic. It is very vulnerable. And what he does in that scene, you're just like, wow, that's a courageous actor. So [00:10:00] I mean, he's up on my list of actors that I will watch anytime I see them on a cast list because I just think he's... He's got guts and that's what you want, guts and ideas.

(10:16):

I talk all the time about having ideas when you act, that scene in the gravesite, and all you've got to go on is dot, dot, dot, and you think to yourself, God, but what I do? What would I do here? It makes total [00:10:30] sense. And then to have the courage to do it, to say, "You know what? Yeah, I'm going to unzip. I'm going to whip my dick out and do it." It was wonderful. And even the last scene when he's dancing around naked in the house, just letting it all hang out. It was fun. It was a fun movie. Is it the best movie I've ever seen? No. But was it fun? Yes. Do I recommend it? Sure. Watch it for his performance, [00:11:00] okay? Saltburn. And read that article. It's really a great dive into his career, into his thinking as an actor, just as a human being and how he works and the way other people talk about him, which says a lot as well. So check that out.

(11:21):

There's a great article in Vanity Fair. It is an excerpt from a new book called Hits, Flops, [00:11:30] and Other Illusions by the director Ed Zwick. Now, Ed Zwick is a prolific director. He's been, my God, directing for the last 40-some-odd years. He directed the movies About Last Night, Legends of the Fall, Courage Under Fire, the Last Samurai, Blood Diamond, great film with Leo DiCaprio and Jennifer Connelly, the movie Defiance, Love and Other Drugs. But [00:12:00] Legends of the Fall was I think probably one of his best. And in this Vanity Fair article, it's an excerpt of this book that he's just written about his career, about his life. It's very interesting. It's a lot of tea being spilled, talking about just the production particularly of that film, working with Brad Pitt and his own process, and the way he works. There's one passage in particular that I wanted to read because it speaks [00:12:30] to Ed Zwick's artistry and the obsession that I think that you need in any art form if you want to be really good, the attention to detail.

(12:41):

And I just thought I would read this passage, so let me just read this to you and let it sink in. Now, this is also a director that at this point, this is in the 90s, he's been directing for quite some time. He's got a lot of films under his belt, the guy knows what he's doing, he's very successful. [00:13:00] I am a movie director masquerading as a rational human being. I present myself as a mensch, a thoughtful, collegial guy who wants everybody's opinion. Well, in fact, I am Ahab in a baseball cap. I want it done exactly as I asked, and I want it now. Now meaning before we lose the light or the storm hits or another plane passes overhead or the studio shuts us down for going into overtime. [00:13:30] Now, because I'm only going to get to shoot this movie once, because this shot will most likely be in the movie, and I'm going to have to look at it a thousand times in the cutting room and the previews and in the premiere and live with it for the rest of my life.

(13:48):

Because in the insane intensity of this moment, it feels like my entire career depends on it, that I will have another flop and might never work again [00:14:00] unless I get this take right. Well, I'll tell you, that is an artist. That's an artist, and I can understand that. I can understand that obsession, and that's probably with him every single day, every single minute that he's on set. And I think that obsession, that need to get it right, to do it well is a great driving [00:14:30] energy for you if you are a creative. And then there was this other little tidbit in this Vanity Fair excerpt that I really appreciated. I'm always telling my students, I'm telling you, I mean this whole podcast really is based on the notion that I want to help educate you, inspire you, give you things to think about so that you can feed yourself intellectually and emotionally. [00:15:00] You've got to educate yourself. You've got to know everything you can about this business, about this business that you want to be involved in, the history of it, the work that's come before you.

(15:11):

And in the excerpt here from the book, Ed Zwick is talking about when he got Anthony Hopkins on board for Legends of the Fall, and Anthony Hopkins really reached out to him. He had always wanted to do a western, and this is what [00:15:30] he had to say about Hopkins. "I couldn't have known that the acclaimed classical actor from the National Theatre had always wanted to do a Western. When I met him, he regaled me with imitations of the great cowboy stars of his childhood. He did a perfect Lee J. Cobb in How the West Was Won, a spot on John Wayne in Red River, and a brilliant Jimmy Stewart and the Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. He could talk avidly about everything from John Ford's Cavalry Trilogy [00:16:00] to Sam Peckinpah's The Wild Bunch." I mean, are you kidding me? That's somebody who understands the art form, who understands the history of the work that came before them, and this is one of the great actors of his generation, any generation. That's impressive.

(16:18):

And when you can walk into a room and talk in that way and share your insights in that way, whoo. So [00:16:30] take inspiration from that. But get this book, I am absolutely going to get it. I'm going to read it. I think it seems like just from reading the article on the making of Legends of the Fall is going to be a great book. Hits, Flops, and Other Illusions by Ed Zwick and what he has to say about working with Brad Pitt and Brad's intensity and obsession to detail and his commitment to the work and the way their personalities clashed and how they got [00:17:00] through it to make a really great film is very, very interesting. So check it out.

(17:08):

So I finally watched American Fiction this week and loved it. There are some excellent performances. I think Jeffrey Wright has given one of the best performances of his career. It's up there with Basquiat, and certainly Topdog/Underdog that I saw on stage with Mos Def back in the 90s. This is a great performance, and Sterling K. Brown [00:17:30] kills it. There's an intensity, a coarseness, and an equal amount of tenderness and sensitivity in Sterling K. Brown's performance as Jeffrey Wright's brother in this film. Fantastic. Tracee Ellis Ross is great in this. Issa Rae, excellent. And it's a great satirical dark comedy about race, about [00:18:00] white privilege, about just our, as white people, just how pathetic we can be when it comes to wanting to read and hear about the Black experience. And the whole premise of this film, if you haven't seen it yet, Jeffrey Wright is a author, published author, not that successful, really put some stuff out there.

(18:28):

He's so put off by [00:18:30] this book that came out by Issa Rae's character that is just like this pandering trope, kind of red meat to the White readers of the world, and it's become very, very popular and famous and he's disgusted by it. So as a joke, he pens in an anonymous name, a pandering book about the Black experience just for White people, and they gobble it up and it becomes a success, [00:19:00] and he's appalled by all of it. And on the other side of that, it's his relationship with his mom, with his brother, with this pending kind of emerging relationship he has with his neighbor. And it's really, really, really good. His work is subtle, but it's specific. He's alive, and Sterling K. Brown is a force. I think it's the best thing I've ever seen him do. [00:19:30] He's got an intensity, a coarseness that is matched equally with a great deal of tenderness and sensitivity.

(19:40):

He's an interesting, interesting character, and if you just read those words on the page, his lines and every scene he's in, you just think to yourself, well, what are you going to do with that to make it interesting? How do you approach it? And he creates a very vivid, interesting, compelling, [00:20:00] sensitive, compassionate, fierce, bitter human being. It was really wonderful to watch. I really enjoyed it. I highly recommend it. So check out American Fiction, and also the great actor Tom Wilkinson died a few weeks ago at the age of 75, a long prolific career, an excellent character actor. Two films in particular that have always stuck with me, [00:20:30] Michael Clayton, of course, from 2007, 2008, and also In the Bedroom in 2001, great film with Sissy Spacek. They play parents who lost their son, and it's how the two of them deal with the grief and the guilt and the blaming, and there are some scenes in that film that will just rip your heart out. So if you want an appreciation for Tom Wilkinson, check out Michael Clayton, In the Bedroom.

(21:00):

[00:21:00] And then once you watch those, you'll start to see where he has popped up in so many things over his 50-year career. I mean, I can even go back to the early 90s. He played a really great appeals prosecutor in the Daniel Day Lewis film In the Name of the Father, which was excellent. He was in the Full Monty as well. Funny, [00:21:30] he could play serious and dark and he could also do comedy. I mean he was in Rush Hour for God's sake. Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker, he played this really sophisticated British diplomat, also a crime boss. He was very imposing. He was very tall, well over six feet, very just imposing in the space he took up, and he always carried himself in all of his roles as a very sensitive but weary, [00:22:00] downtrodden kind of presence, just came across very sincere in everything that he did.

(22:07):

He was in Batman Begins, played another crime boss. Always played the bad guys well. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. He plays this doctor who, I don't know, he's essentially playing God in the film with these two people, and he was exceptional in that, [00:22:30] hell of a character actor, Tom Wilkinson, rest in peace.

(22:37):

So now I thought I would share with you some of my favorite clips from season four. Every guest that I brought on, they always say something at some point that really just resonates with me, and I thought I would go back to start us off here, back to episode 80 and my conversation with Stephen Melendez, who is the artistic director of the New York Ballet Theater, has had a long and [00:23:00] prolific career as a professional dancer and now as a teacher and an artistic director. If you haven't seen his documentary Lift, about his life and how he got out of the projects and found dance as a way to kind of just really save his life. It's a fascinating documentary, but this is what Stephen had to say about things to consider if you want to sustain a long and vibrant artistic [00:23:30] career.

Stephen Melendez (23:32):

I think the first most important thing is to surround oneself with the right people. I think that's true whether you want to be an artist or not, but it's especially true if you intend to be an artist. You must be surrounded by other artists. You must be surrounded by people who understand the world that you want to be a part of, and whom you look up to. I think the next most important thing is to invest time in understanding the culture and the history of that art, [00:24:00] and all of the other art. They're all connected. It's really important. And actually these two things work in complement with each other. If you surround yourself with people that care about this, it's likely that the conversations you have around the coffee table are going to be about this.

(24:17):

And I think the last thing, or the third thing, the third most important thing is to be ready to have your entire worldview flipped inside [00:24:30] out. That we might all start as children, as creative souls or as artists, but the actual work of becoming an artist, the work of investing oneself in a life like this is unlike the work necessary to do any other thing, as far as I know. And so it is very unlikely that whatever one has been doing up until the point where they say, "Okay, I'm going to become an artist now," has set them up [00:25:00] to be successful.

Charlie Sandlan (25:02):

Now usually at some point in the episode, I'll ask for some advice. What advice do you have to anybody out there who's interested in pursuing an artistic career, an acting career? And in episode 81, my former student, Kris Sidberry, who had a nice break in the Whitney Houston biopic, I Wanna Dance With Somebody, and has been grinding [00:25:30] out a career now for almost 15 years. Her thoughts about what you thought your career was going to be, what it is now, and what you'd like to share about what you've learned along the way.

Kris Sidberry (25:43):

Going to have to be okay for it to look different than what your ideal is. And truly ask, why are you in this? What will make you fulfilled, and now where you want to live. Because if you [00:26:00] demand to live in New York or LA, that is extremely expensive, when there are now many other markets that you can live. I think that you need to be fiscally prepared for that or otherwise you will ride a hamster wheel that you can never get out of. And it is not like you hear these actors be like, "I showed up to LA with a $100 in my pocket." Well, that's great. Back in 1992, you could do that. You can't do that anymore. The self-tape, [00:26:30] yes, a self-tape kit isn't super expensive, but you add that to headshots, to all these sites that you've got to be on now and all of that. I urge people to sit down, really do finances, and look and maybe be okay with starting out in a smaller market and getting some credits, than this dream of I have to be in these two very expensive places.

Charlie Sandlan (26:58):

I loved episode 83, [00:27:00] my conversation with, I can say my friend, now it's my friend through marriage, because she was Trisha's friend first for a long time. But Jamie Schofield Riva, and the conversation we had, her new photography book, Girlhood came out, and we talked about the process of putting that book together, her life as a photographer, as a aspiring artist. And in the book Girlhood, [00:27:30] she wrote love letters to the parts of herself that she was most embarrassed by, intimidated by, felt the most insecure about. It was a very vulnerable idea, and she did it beautifully. And so in this clip, I asked her to read the love letter she wrote to her stretch marks, and this is what she wrote.

Jamie Schofield Riva (27:59):

A love letter [00:28:00] to my stretch marks. Although the eyes of the world may not see you the same, I find the way your markings gently trace the curves of my body to be incredibly sexy, intimate illustrations, your sensuous grip on my hips, a reminder of the growth and resilience I'm capable of throughout my ever transforming lifetime spent in this body. Thank you for changing shape with me as my hips and life expanded to make room for the new humans I would bring into this world, moving with me during the joy [00:28:30] it took to make them and the agony it took to birth them. You are a map of the ups and downs of physical and emotional weight, tiny trails embedded with memories of pain and pleasure collected along the way. I think you're beautiful, and I promise not to erase you or the stories you have to tell.

Charlie Sandlan (28:48):

Episode 84, I talked to my friend Graham Roland, who has been writing for television now for almost 15 years. He's developed the current AMC hit [00:29:00] Dark Winds. He developed and created the Amazon hit Jack Ryan. He was in the writers room for Lost, Prison Break, and in this clip he was just talking about as a young writer, as a kid, his first real source of inspiration was Stephen King. And the idea that you needed to A, have heroes, and B, try to mimic them at first, until you can find your own voice, [00:29:30] and this is what Graham had to say about that.

Graham Roland (29:33):

It's funny, I still have one of the first stories I ever wrote, and it was so old, I wrote it by hand. We didn't even have a computer in the house, and I dedicated it to him, and you can see it's very bad, obviously I was like 11, but you can see me trying to imitate his kind of writing style. But more than that, it was the imagination. He kind of unlocked my imagination, and maybe I was an anxious kid already, [00:30:00] all the little mundane things of the world that he used to scare you in his books, like a dog or a broken marriage or a family that goes to Colorado to caretake a hotel for the winter, these things that on their surface seem mundane and then spin wildly out of control. I started to notice those things in my own life. And then that was the beginning of inventing stories. Well, what if that door was a mouth? Or what if that car had a mind of its own? Which again, [00:30:30] was one of his stories, though that was really the beginning for me.

Charlie Sandlan (30:35):

In episode 86, I brought on my former student Gene Pope, who I'm also very inspired by. Jean didn't really even start seriously pursuing a professional acting career until he hit his 60s. He entered a classroom, my classroom at the Maggie Flanigan Studio when he was 61. And over the last 15 years [00:31:00] has made two feature films, the King of Knives and the Queen of Knives, which is playing in theaters this year. But he had some good advice on the importance of community and finding and surrounding yourself with people that inspire you, that you want to create with, and the good things that can come from surrounding yourself with talented people.

Gene Pope (31:30):

[00:31:30] Find friends that are in the industry or trying to get into the industry. It's all about contacts, but it doesn't have to be the contacts up here. It can be your contacts right here, right at your own level. Go to film festivals, I would suggest, because you're going to meet a lot of filmmakers there, of all different levels. I think that's a great place. I mean, they have mixers and everything there, and you get to meet a lot of interesting people, and you never know how you're going to connect. I think [00:32:00] it's a good idea to have a plan, whether you get a script writer or you do a script yourself. No matter what, it's a start. You have to start somewhere and you have to expect that it's not going to happen right away. It doesn't. It just doesn't. There's all kinds of mistakes, but these mistakes are what make you really good later. There's nothing more important than making a mistake to become [00:32:30] really good. And I don't think there's anybody that just came out of the gate and they were perfect. I don't think so.

Charlie Sandlan (32:37):

In episode 87, I shared with you a talkback from our talkback series at the Maggie Flanagan studio with the playwright, Joshua Harmon, great playwright. He wrote Bad Jews, Significant Others. His current play, A Prayer for the French Republic is on Broadway. And in this clip, he's talking about his own process. I think everybody has their own way [00:33:00] of approaching their work, and particularly with writers, they have their own routines and the things that work for them. Some sit down and write every day, some don't. And it was interesting to hear Joshua's process, and this is what he had to say about that.

Joshua Harmon (33:18):

I'm not somebody who writes every day, and so I don't believe that you have to. And so if I don't feel like writing, I don't. So I guess one way I deal with it is by just not working. [00:33:30] But I also am somebody who believes in going out. Go for a walk, go to a museum, fill your head with, get off your phone, for me, get off my phone, get off my computer. Don't look at a screen. Just be out in the world. Go get a cup of coffee and people watch. I don't think that writing is always you and your computer or you and a pen. Writing is you puzzling through an idea. I think you can put pressure on yourself. Why am I not getting this? And [00:34:00] why put that pressure on yourself?

Charlie Sandlan (34:03):

In episode 89, I brought on my former student Ellis Melillo, Ellis, a exceptionally vulnerable and talented actress who has moved to Nashville and she's been carving out her singing career, which was her primary childhood passion. And it's a great episode because it's all about just the power of manifestation, how she ended up at Jones Beach on stage opening for the Zach [00:34:30] Brown Band at a venue that she went to when she was five years old, to see Britney Spears, and knew that she wanted to perform on that stage. It's a great story about believing in what is possible. And in this clip, she's talking more specifically about authenticity, and how she became to finally realize that who she was and what she was about [00:35:00] was enough to put into the world her voice, her authenticity. And this is what Ellis had to say about that.

Ellis Melillo (35:07):

I always wrote songs by myself alone in my room when I was growing up. So I didn't really know how to compare myself to other people. I was just kind of comparing myself to people that were already super successful that I looked up to. Going through acting school helped a lot with that, because you go through acting school and you're watching people just be themselves and you're like, that is magnificent. [00:35:30] You're funny, you're talented, you're open. And I guess I've never really thought of that, and I'm not saying that that's how I was. I'm just saying that I never really thought of being myself as being a talent or having just what I had to offer as being a talent. You think of when you go through acting school that you're supposed to act like somebody else because that's going to be more impressive. But you're supposed to be yourself and be as vulnerable as you can be. And that's kind of in a sense what your talent is.

Charlie Sandlan (36:00):

[00:36:00] In episode 90, I brought on one of my dearest closest, one of my ride-or-die friends, Larry Ballard. Lawrence and I were in grad school together, and in the episode, the core of it has to do with our time in grad school and my use of the N-word, directed at him in the middle of a improvisation scene work in class, and how that affected [00:36:30] him, how it affected me. It's an incredible episode, but this clip I wanted to share with you has to do with an analogy that he uses to describe actors, actors as boxers. And it just really stuck with me because the image and the idea behind what a boxer needs to do and what an actor needs to do absolutely resonates. And I think it's a great analogy, and I thought I'd share it again [00:37:00] with you here, my friend Lawrence Ballard.

Lawrence Ballard (37:02):

Was it Maggie that said to us that we're athletes of the soul? And I use that all the time. We're also pugilists of the spirit. We're boxers. We're like boxers. And the reason why we're like that is because we are agreeing. I look at you as my acting partner. We look at the material, and we make an agreement saying that we are going to play this material, send out this message as best we could, because it's worth sending out. [00:37:30] Now, if I don't feel it's worth sending out, then I don't have to be a part of it. I can walk away from it. I could have looked at that scene and I could have said to Maggie, I could have been like, "You know what? I don't really feel comfortable with doing that. It's not something I'm interested in doing." And that's absolutely fine. Everybody should be able to make the choices that are best for them.

(37:50):

But I also believe that in a sea of bad material, in a world where most of the material [00:38:00] is for escapism, where most of the material is just mindless, that sometimes the good material will cause you to be uncomfortable. And just like a boxer looks at his opponent and says, "You know what? We're going to get into the ring. We're going to beat the hell out of each other. But there's a purpose behind what we're doing, and we're not really trying to kill each other." There's not a boxer that steps into the ring and wants to [00:38:30] kill the person opposite of them, but they understand, I'm a boxer. When I get into that ring, I got to throw punches and I got to take punches. And they make that agreement before they get into the ring. This is what acting is like.

Charlie Sandlan (38:47):

And our final clip here, episode 92, my former student, Isha Blaaker, who is having a hell of a run since getting out of the Maggie Flanagan studio. He is in Avery DuVernay's [00:39:00] recent film, Origin, which is based off the book Cast by Isabel Wilkerson. He plays a real life person, Dr. Allison Davis, who was a very significant African American teacher and scientist from the early part of the 20th century. And in this clip, Isha is just sharing some of his thoughts about what you should consider if you want to sustain a professional acting career. Here's Isha.

Isha Blaaker (39:30):

[00:39:30] Sooner than later, start figuring out what your career perspectives are, prospects, because then you can start preparing for that. The part after you feel like you're ready, you studied enough, is probably the most difficult part to get signed and then start auditioning and all that. If you can make choices on that early on, it would help. How are you going to go about it? Do you have any competitive advantage? Do you dance? Do you sing? Do you have any kind of management there or whatever? It can get you a foot in the [00:40:00] door or any connections. If you don't have that, that's fine. You can also do cold calling, calling or emailing 100 people you find on IMDbPro or whatever. They hate that, but I know at least two people that got in like that. If that's not the case, I have an old improv teacher who I think doesn't have an agent or manager, but she works every day.

(40:22):

She has her own character that she puts up as a show. She teaches improv. She has two improv shows, and she sings, and [00:40:30] she works and she earns. And I think that's amazing. And I think otherwise, find a different way or say acting is acting, are you in love with the acting career, or are you in love with acting? And if you're in love with acting, then say, "I want to pursue it, and I want to go to a community theater and blow the roof off of it because I love acting. I love the scene that I have, and I'm going to make my money somewhere else, and it's going to feed each other." [00:41:00] But making those choices early on, I think helps for a lot of misconceptions.

Charlie Sandlan (41:06):

Well, my fellow daydreamers, that is going to wrap up season four, thank you for sticking around, keeping that phone in your pocket. Listen, I know time is valuable. I know that there are many things that you could spend 45 minutes or an hour doing, and the fact that you take an hour out of your week and listen to anything I have to say, I take it very [00:41:30] seriously, and it means a hell of a lot to me. Over the next few months, my friends continue to just stay open to the world, continue to take in life, work hard, educate yourself, read, keep satiating that intellectual curiosity. Keep trying to foster that, to nurture that. Stay healthy, and [00:42:00] find time for solitude. Find time for friends. Find time to let your imagination run wild, daydream, fantasize, and always ask those questions what if? What if, dot, dot, dot. Those two words are the key into your imagination.

(42:21):

And wherever you are in your career, whether you're in school, whether you are at that point where you're not sure if you want to continue, if you want to call [00:42:30] it quits, or if you've been working for a long time and are struggling with the highs and lows of the business and the brutality of that side of acting, or art, take a moment to just let your thoughts wander. And always remember that being an artist, being a creative person [00:43:00] is a privilege. It's an important thing to do with your life. It's a courageous thing. It's a noble thing to do with your life. We as human beings need art. We need to be able to look at the human condition in many different ways. Remember that you are acrobats of the human heart, and take risks. Really, everything you do, try to [00:43:30] put your soul on the line. Jump off that cliff and say fuck it.

(43:36):

And over the course of these next few months, if you've got anything that you want me to see, if there's anything that strikes you that's particularly interesting or questions you have for me, please go to https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com. Go to that contact page, hit that red button, and leave me a voice message. It'll get emailed to me. I'll be able to send a voice message back to you, and we can stay in contact [00:44:00] in that way. And if you are ever interested in coming to New York City to train with me and my teachers at the Maggie Flanagan Studio in New York City, please reach out. Go to the website, https://www.maggieflaniganstudio.com, or you can also email me directly Charlie@maggieflaniganstudio.com, and I'll get back to you directly. My friends, stay resilient, play full out with yourself, and don't ever settle for your second best. [00:44:30] My name is Charlie Sandlan. Peace.

Speaker 11 (44:31):

(singing)