037- The Importance of Professional Relationships

Kate Lacey Kiley was being groomed to become a VP of Casting for Disney after almost a decade working as a casting director for the studio, but her heart wasn't in it. She left that job to pursue her acting career, and now, after 20 years in this business, has finally found her true calling as a producer of film and television. This business provides so many different areas for you to find your true calling. Kate has worked at the highest level and has a wealth of advice to offer those of you pursuing a creative life.  Listen to find out some important audition mistakes, what successful actor's bring to their work, and the actor who  gave the best audition she's ever seen. You can follow CBP on Instagram @creatingbehavior, and Charlie's NYC acting conservatory, the Maggie Flanigan Studio @maggieflaniganstudio. Theme music by  https://www.thelawrencetrailer.com. For written transcripts, to leave a voicemail on SpeakPipe, or contact Charlie for private coaching, check out https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com

Transcript

Charlie Sandlan (00:02):

If you would've told me 20 years ago that I was going to end up owning a New York city acting studio, that I was going to devote my life to mastering the art of teaching and the Meisner Technique, that I would spend my days mentoring, shaping, and training aspiring actors I would have told you, you were fucking nuts, not a chance in hell. But life has a way of revealing its true purpose to you if you stay open, if you say yes, if you walk through those doors that open for you in surprising moments.

Charlie Sandlan (00:33):

And today we're going to talk to one of my closest friends, the producer, the actor, the casting director, Kate Lacey Kiley. She was being groomed to take over as VP of Casting at Disney Studios. She spent nine years there, but that wasn't her passion. She was an actress and she left that job to pursue her acting career only to discover that what she really loved to do was produce. We're going to talk about living a creative life of wearing different hats of the importance of relationships, of how not to fuck up an audition. She's learned a lot along the way and she's here to share it with you. So put the phone back in your pocket. Creating Behavior starts now.

Charlie Sandlan (01:42):

Well, hello my fellow daydreamers, you know this episode has had me thinking a lot about the importance of relationships. Now I know that I've said to you guys many times you've listened. You want to work in this business for a long time, you want success, you want a real shot at doing this work in your 50s your 60s. You got to train. You've got to take yourself seriously. You've got to do good work every single time. You walk into a room, put yourself on tape, walk into an audition, in performance, in rehearsal, on set. You've got to be a good collaborator. You've got to be somebody that other people want to actually work with and you've got to be accountable, right? That's a given. But relationships, man I can't fucking tell you how important they've been in my life. And if you ask any really successful person, really in any business, but absolutely in this art form, they're going to talk about the relationships that they've made.

Charlie Sandlan (02:46):

And those relationships sometimes are formed over many years. But when you have a collection of people, a handful of people who know you, who like you, who respect you, they're going to recommend you to other creative artists. They're going to open up doors for you that you didn't know were even there. And conversely, you're going to do the same for them, right? And that's what my relationship with Kate Lacey-Kiley has been. I met Kate 20 years ago. We were doing our MFA showcase out in LA, my classmates and I. And at the time she was managing the casting department for Disney Film. And she came to the showcase and from that night and for watching my work we've had a relationship now that's spanned 20 years. And I've watched her just transform herself into not just a casting director, but a first rate actress into a first rate producer. She knows so much about this business. And if I could give you anything of hers to watch, and I think it's a must for any actor, anybody that loves film, anybody that loves the creative process, watch the documentary Casting By.

Charlie Sandlan (04:18):

You can watch it on Amazon Prime came out in 2012, this was a passion project for Kate. She's going to talk about it. I jumped on board with her as an associate producer. I believed so much in her, in her work ethic and her passion that I wanted to be a part of it. And it is a really it's a love letter to the casting director. She was the last intern of Marion Dougherty and if you don't know who Marion Dougherty is, you should. One of the great casting directors in the history of film. She casted Urban Cowboy, Midnight Cowboy, Panic in Needle Park, Grease, The World According to Garp. She was as a woman carving out a trail for the thousands of casting directors behind her. She was the VP of Casting at Warner Brothers for 15 years.

Charlie Sandlan (05:15):

So Kate was her last intern before she retired and Casting By really started as an homage to her. And the documentary really became an insight into the world of casting. This documentary has some of the biggest actors and casting directors in the business, how they work, how they do what they do, how they put a film together. Everybody from Ellen Chenoweth, Deb Aquila, Lynn Stalmaster, who just passed away a couple of months ago. Ellen Lewis, Amanda Mackey. These are some of the best casting directors in the business. And the actors in this documentary my god, Ed Asner, Jeff Bridges, Glenn Close, Robert De Niro, Richard Dreyfuss, Robert Duvall, Clint Eastwood, Mel Gibson, Danny Glover, Diane Lane, John Lithgow, Al Pacino, Bette Midler, Scorsese, John Voight.

Charlie Sandlan (06:15):

Hearing their insights about how they started off in this business, how they developed relationships with the casting directors that they went in front of, it's an incredible documentary and I highly recommend it. And if you really are an actor and you're serious, you need to fucking watch it. So on that note, I'm going to turn it over here to my conversation with Kate, we are beginning our conversation talking about the night she first met me. Here's Kate.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (06:50):

When I was working I was at the time, I think at the time I was still an assistant to the incredible casting director and executive Marshall Ross at the Walt Disney company. Part of my job was to go and kind of scout talent or just go take in shows or see movies or whatever, and just keep an eye out for any actors out there that we could potentially meet with. And so a part of that was going to the leagues every year, which was the master class performances from all the top acting schools. They would come out to LA I think they would come out for like a week or so and they would do like a couple nights of shows. It was myself, I believe Gail Goldberg and Barbara McCarthy. And we had gone to see the Rutgers Mason Gross School of the Arts master class performances.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (07:40):

And there was a performance between two young actors, male and female. And I could not take my eyes off of this young male actor. He was so charismatic and so... I just had this light in him and it's one of those things where you kind of felt the energy of the performance. You know what I mean? You know when you see people on stage and you're just drawn to them and you feel that energy. Well, that's what I felt when I was watching this young man on stage. And so I waited and I looked in the program and I saw his name at the time was Chip Sandlan.

Charlie Sandlan (08:31):

You're going way back now.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (08:33):

I know. By the way, it took me awhile to move from Chip to Charlie. I waited until you guys all came out and that's when I met you. And I just, I said, I think you're incredibly talented. And I said the same to Andrea who the young female actress. But I said, I would love to have you guys come into Disney and meet with my boss and I think you're incredibly talented. And then that's when you guys came in and I had you meet with Marsha and Gail and Donna, and then after you left and I say, I've never done this since, and I hadn't done it before. But I called every casting director, manager or agent that I knew at that time, or had a relationship with at that time to say, I really think that you should meet with this kid. He's really great, talented. And you also had this incredibly warm, genuine personality. And I think that that's so important too just in life.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (09:36):

But definitely in terms of me recommending an actor, I always feel like this is potentially somebody who's either going to be hired by you or that you're going to rep and I want that person to be a good person. That's how we met, and I think it's important for any students that you have or young actors who are listening to this podcast. I think it's important to understand who it is that you're learning from or listening to and as a part of your research, what value do they have to add to that area of expertise in which you're trying to learn? And I think that it's important for them to know that you are the real deal. And I'm very big on effortless performances and just very natural, not forced. And that's what you were really just. You just were the character. You're just... That was it.

Charlie Sandlan (10:32):

I do wonder the kind of acting I would do now if I was still acting.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (10:38):

Well, you know I told you one of these days I'm going to cast you in something I'm producing. And you'll get to find out.

Charlie Sandlan (10:43):

Yeah, I don't miss it, but yeah, I mean, I still consider myself an actor, even though I'm a teacher.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (10:51):

Well I think your're always an actor. And I think this is... You know what? This is an interesting topic, I think, which is kind of where I'm at in my life journey now. And where you're at in your life journey, we both started out as actors. I was an acting major at Emerson College studied Kristin Linklater and I never in a million years would have said I would do anything other than acting, which I'm sure you would've done the same. It was, I will act or I will die. So I moved out to Los Angeles and that was what I was going to do. Well, my second day in LA, I wind up meeting for an internship with the incredible Marion Dougherty who if no one listening to the podcast knows the name, Marion Dougherty you should watch the film Casting By.

Charlie Sandlan (11:45):

Your passion project.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (11:46):

It was my passion project and my first producing gig. But I started this internship, which led 10-ish years of working in the casting profession, still missing acting, still wanting to go back to it. I wound up quitting my job in casting to go back to acting and found my way into producing, which we'll get into that maybe a little bit more detail in a bit. But I think what's so interesting and what actors out there should know is that this industry provides so many different areas for you to find your true calling. I never would have thought I could be anything other than an actress. And the second I touched the producing profession, it was like I knew immediately, no, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And I never would have known had I not worked in casting and quit casting to go back to acting and stumble into this Casting By story that gets me into producing that I would have known, oh, this is the area I was supposed to be in my whole life.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (12:59):

And so same with you. I think you were destined to share the craft of acting, I believe that. And I think that had you not gone to Mason Gross and moved out to Los Angeles and pursued acting in Los Angeles and then had this conversation with Maggie and moved back to teach. It's just I hope that all the actors out there know that there are so many cool gigs in this industry that you might find your way into, just by way of following your passion of acting. I knew I was born to entertain people. I always felt that it was through acting, I didn't know that it was another version of that same storytelling thing in producing, but I knew I wanted to be in that field. But I look at 99.9% of the people out there... I have family members that still in their 40s don't know what they want to be when they grow up, you know?

Kate Lacey-Kiley (13:58):

And so my feeling is that the only way you can really kind of know truly what it is that you want to do, know truly what it is that your calling is, is to experience it, is to go through different jobs. I am such a huge advocate of doing internships. I think that to me is like that should be mandatory for every college student, and anybody who wants to get into a particular field because it gives you a taste. I was so lucky to have the job that I had. Getting a studio gig is kind of a rare deal and so I was fully aware and appreciative of the fact that I had a studio gig. I wanted so desperately to quiet that noise in myself that kept missing acting. Every day I would wake up I would feel like I was walking around without an arm because I missed acting so much. And it was like, I had this constant battle of like just appreciate what you have in this job and with the... But this isn't what you were born to do.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (15:07):

And so I finally, after doing that dance for seven, eight years, whatever it was, Marsha Ross, my boss had come into my office, I'll never forget it. She came in and she said, "You know, I just wanted to share some good news. I just sat with the president of the studio they were doing their department reviews." And she said, "And I wanted you to know that we both agree that you are in the position to be groomed to eventually run this department." And she's sitting there, she's smiling and I knew she was so happy to share that news with me and proud. And I wanted to feel that so much. I wanted to feel this like overwhelming sense of like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. This is so cool. Because I should have been feeling that and instead, everything inside me was I felt like I was suffocating.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (16:07):

And so I did the whole pretend excitement and like, thank you so much and that's so great and that next day it was a Friday. I couldn't stop thinking of one thing, an image of myself waking up at 50 years old, regretting my entire life. Because a day turns into a week, turns into a month, turns into a year, turns into 10 years like that. And I knew that if I didn't make the decision right then I would never do it. It was a Friday, I called her and I said, "I need to talk to you about something." And I asked if I could go over because I didn't want it to be in the office. So I went to her house on that Saturday and I sat down with her and I said, "You know, I want to start by telling you that I appreciate every single thing that you have given me. You've taught me so much. You have provided me with opportunity and I don't want you to think I don't appreciate it. But this is a version of my life that I'm not supposed to be living. And there's one thing that I've felt passionate about my whole life and it's acting, and I miss it. And I feel like if I don't at least try to do it, I will regret it for the rest of my life."

Kate Lacey-Kiley (17:21):

And I remember her looking at me. I'll never forget, it was the definition of stoic. "Okay. Well, if that's what you feel you need to do then I'm not going to stop you from doing that." I said, "Oh, well, okay. So I guess I will see you on Monday." And so I kind of went home and I was in this weird place of like I don't even know what to do, like I don't know... I felt like there was no closure there. And so that Monday she came into the office and she comes over to my office and said, "Okay, I just wanted to process this over the weekend. And I just have a couple of questions." And she said, "First, I don't understand this being something that you didn't plan. I feel like were you planning this and you just decided to tell me now? Because I don't understand how somebody would just make such a big life decision without having thought it through."

Kate Lacey-Kiley (18:18):

And I said, "I'm going to be honest with you, Marsha. I didn't." I said, "I didn't, this wasn't a plan." I said, "This was something that when you and I had that conversation last week about my review, it really was just a - if I don't do this now, I will never do it - and I have to do it now." And she said, "Okay, I understand that." And then she said, "Because this is such a big life decision I want to temp your position for a period of time in case you change your mind." And that to me was one of the kindest gestures I'd ever experienced. I thought I really couldn't get over it like that she valued me and my work to the degree that she would hold that job. But also that you kind of was like providing me with a safety net in case I did make a mistake in this decision.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (19:12):

You know, I thanked her for that and ultimately, look, I never went back. But I will say that for anybody out there who is in that kind of place where they're not happy with what they're doing, and they're not... It's not easy, right? We all have to pay our bills. We all have to... But I'm telling you, making that decision started the path for the real life that I was supposed to be living. Meaning I don't feel like I fully started living my life until I left Disney. Because after that look, I mean, I went on to, like you said, I went on and I was fortunate enough to get some good acting gigs and things.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (19:54):

And then ultimately get to a place where I'm auditioning regularly and incredibly bored and think, "Hey, somebody should make a movie about my first boss, Marion Dougherty, and Joana Colbert and I, she had the same thought, because she came from the same school and we partnered up and started deciding that we could make this documentary about Marion. We hired a producer who kind of failed in that role and left the project. And just by default, I thought, well, I guess I'll have to do it. So I just jumped in and boom, here's my calling, right?

Charlie Sandlan (20:35):

So it's an amazing documentary and every actor needs to watch it. The collection of actors and casting directors that are interviewed and that documentary it's a treasure trove.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (20:49):

I think it is an invaluable tool for actors, just to get an understanding of what that casting director's perspective is. And I think too many actors are... And look, I get it right. I worked in casting at the top level and I started auditioning after working in casting. Now mind you, I've only done theater auditioning before working in casting, but I, even after working in casting, I still was bombing on auditions. I still was getting nervous. I still... So, you know the thing that I will say that I think Casting By does is it humanizes that casting director. Casting directors are just out there working hard too, they're trying to get their next gig just like you're trying to get your next gig.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (21:35):

And we forget that this is a collaboration, this whole television, film, theater it's a big collaboration. And it takes a lot of incredibly intelligent people to have that collaboration work. I don't like this idea where actors kind of fall in this inferior role. They're not, they're adding as much to this collaboration as the casting directors, the directors, the cinematographers, the grip, is anybody, right? But yeah, so I think they should definitely watch it.

Charlie Sandlan (22:09):

Honestly, I think most actors end up quitting after three, four or five years because they can't take the audition process. They don't know how to audition well, they freak their shit, they can't handle rejection, they think that every audition they don't book is because they sucked.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (22:23):

Look, one thing I learned is you cannot seek validation from anybody else aside from yourself. I think that as actors we instinctively want for someone to tell us we're good enough. Yes, you are the actor that you think that you are. Yes, you are good. Yes, you know. And ultimately that validation has to come from yourself. You have to know you're good enough. I think that something that always stood out to us when I worked in casting, are these actors who just had this inner comfort and confidence in what they were doing. There was no question of, am I good enough? Did I do a good enough job? Did you see me as this part? It was more, well, I'm a good actor and this is how I would wear this character, so hopefully it fits. There is only one you. So you are going to bring something special to this role that you're auditioning for that nobody else on this entire planet will be able to bring to this role. How amazing is that, right?

Kate Lacey-Kiley (23:32):

What power that gives you as an actor to know, oh, they're not going to see this on anybody else because there's literally no other me. So let me embrace this role. Let me find this character's inner voice and show them what that looks like on me. That's what the job of an actor is. It's not a test to see if you get this part or not. It's a process of showing me how does this character look on you? And sometimes that's a match and sometimes it's not. The second that we place that idea of I need to get this part. The second we put the hope of needing to get that part into the audition process you've already lost.

Charlie Sandlan (24:17):

Yeah. Everybody puts their eggs in these basket because, oh, fuck I haven't had an audition in six months and they put everything on this audition and you're not going to book it.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (24:25):

Right. I need this job, I need this job, I need this job. Oh please, God, I need this job. Like-

Charlie Sandlan (24:30):

Can you smell that when an actor walks in that room?

Kate Lacey-Kiley (24:33):

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I mean, and it's horrible because a lot of times those are the actors that will end their audition with, " I really love this part so like, if there's anything you need to see differently, or if I can do anything else, like I just, I really love this part. So like whatever I have to do." And it's like look, I come from being an actress so I would always, of course, sympathize. And I would always try to give out... If we had time, I would always try to give him another go with, especially if you knew that they... You could sense when they didn't do their best or they knew they didn't do their best. So I try to at least give them that so that they felt good when they left the room.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (25:11):

But you can't come in with that desperation because what happens at that point, just like in life, when you're nervous for anything, for a job interview for anything, you are putting something between yourself and me, right? You are putting this invisible barrier between that connection that I need to have with you in this part. And that invisible barrier is the nerves, the anxiety, the anxiousness, the desire to get it. And so I'm not really able to fully connect with you the person because all of that stuff is around it. So I think when you're going into an audition, the most important thing to remember is there's a lot of actors out there and only one of them is going to play this part. And so already odds might be against me, however, maybe who I am as an individual and that special thing that makes me is exactly what they need in this part. And so fingers crossed that's the case. And so let me just go show them what that looks like.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (26:16):

And John Papsidera, a brilliant casting director, which if any of you listening don't know John Papsidera you should look them up. When we were interviewing him for Casting By, he described it so perfectly, he said, "The best casting comes from a marriage. It's a marriage of the soul of the actor and the soul of the character." That's what happens. It's just this kind of thing that matches up and it's perfection and that's when it works. And by the way, sometimes it doesn't, and you see those examples all the time and generally the show or production or whatever won't succeed because of the bad casting. But when you see these roles Joaquin in Joker and all of these it's like perfect marriage of character to actor. And so kind of taking the pressure off of making yourself into something that maybe you're not supposed to be. And just being your authentic self that's what's going to ultimately get you a gig.

Charlie Sandlan (27:16):

Well, I tell my students that it's about doing good work, like just go in there and do good work. And you're probably not going to qualify for that part, but they're not going to forget you.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (27:24):

I'm telling you we never forgot a good actor. Never. And I always give the example of Amy Adams. We were bringing Amy into pre-read for things, because at the time she wasn't really that known, but Amy would come in and slay anything. And even if she wasn't really right, she would be professional and courteous and just she would never waste the opportunity of having that audition. So even if she wasn't right for a role she made us feel thankful that we brought her in and we would always bring her in. Like we brought her in for things that we knew she wasn't right for just to see if maybe we can be wrong and maybe she can fit. Because she was just one of those actors who gave it her all and had fun doing it.

Charlie Sandlan (28:19):

You said that she was professional. So I'm curious like what that means to you? You get on both sides of the camera, and everything you've done as an actor what's it mean to be professional in your opinion?

Kate Lacey-Kiley (28:29):

There's a whole group of actors who just kind of don't take the job of being an actor very seriously in my opinion. They kind of just wing it, you know like go on audition, like if they book it fantastic. But there's no work ethic behind it. I think actors forget that acting is a profession and the business of being an actor is really being an independent contractor or an independent business and you are the CEO of that business. And I feel like there are actors when I say professional, it's the actors that came in, had read the script, have really good questions that they were looking for answers to in order to help their performance, or offer insight respectful of the audition space, respectful of the other actors in the waiting room. You know, there's just a level of professionalism that you should carry with you.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (29:30):

And in the work, I can't tell you how many times we will call actors in. And this is, again, we're at a studio working on studio level films, we'd have some pretty high level filmmakers in the room and we would bring actors in. It would drive me crazy when you have a writer-director who says, "So what'd you think of the script?" And the actor actually has the audacity to say, "Oh, you know what? I didn't get a chance to read it, but I did... I read the sides. I think it's a really good role." And I don't get that. I simply don't understand how as an actor, and this is your business, you wouldn't put the effort in towards not just showing respect to the writer-director in the room, but also informing yourself to give yourself an advantage on the story, and the character's relevance in the story, the character's interactions with other characters. So it's those are the kinds of things that separate a professional actor from someone who's just kind of hanging out, you know.

Charlie Sandlan (30:34):

Are there any auditions that are like seared into your memory? Like that was just one of the best auditions I've ever seen?

Kate Lacey-Kiley (30:41):

Joseph Gordon-Levitt, The Lookout. All day, all night.

Charlie Sandlan (30:45):

Really?

Kate Lacey-Kiley (30:46):

Joseph Gordon-Levitt. I mean, first of all, he's just brilliant in anything, but he had come in for anybody who's listening who doesn't know there's different stages of the audition process. So first is doing a pre-read and then you get a call back and the call backs are with usually the director in film, in television it's with the producers and director. And those director, producer call back sessions are usually with regularly working actors, but then there's a few who are offer only where they don't really have to come in because they're so well-known, and they're so established that you just make an offer for the role. Well, I think Joseph was kind of at that point where you didn't really have to come in for director and producers, but he did. Joseph came in and I remember he really wanted this role.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (31:37):

And it was one that I actually did not envision him in. It was kind of like the high school jock character. And he winds up getting into a car accident and suffered a brain injury. So it was a very rich, really layered role. And Joseph comes in and it was myself, Marsha Ross, and Scott Frank. Joseph comes in and he had a book that he had found on brain injury and he said, "You know, Scott, I just wanted to bring up this book it really helped me in doing my research for the role and kind of preparing for today to get into character. And I really think it might be useful to have maybe just take a look at." And he went into some of the issues that brain injury people deal with. And it was first of all, spot on.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (32:29):

But second of all, I thought, look at this guy, like not only did he go so far as to go and get a book on brain injury to help inform him on the character for this audition, but he's also offering it to the writer-director to say, this was really useful. You might use it. You might not. But I loved everything about that and he's such a gracious guy anyway. Well, he come in and it was a scene where he was kind of being manipulated by this bad guy who was essentially trying to turn him against his family and say that they don't know what's best for you. I know what's best for you. And he has him call his dad and ask for money. Ultimately, knowing that his dad is going to say no, because he doesn't trust him with the brain injury, but Joseph's character thinks, no, my dad trusts me he thinks I'm independent enough.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (33:17):

And well, he does this call and ultimately the bad guy is right. His dad says, no, he doesn't think that he should be handling that much money by himself. Simple scene. The scene ended at the end of that call. And this is a huge note for actors listening, just because it's the end of the scene doesn't mean that you have to just be done, right? Like finish out the scene. And that is what Joseph did. Feeling his heartbreak when his dad says that he's not going to give him this money. He hangs up the phone with his dad, and again, scene is supposed to be ended there but what he does is he sitting there and all of a sudden this tear just rolls down his face. And by the way, I would not suggest ever throwing anything in an audition room.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (34:05):

But in this scene he was sitting on the floor and there was a chair next to him and this tear rolls down his face. And he just gets this look in his eyes and he goes, "Fuck." And grabs this chair and pulls it over to this other side and kind of like throws it on the floor. And we were like frozen. It was so powerful and so emotional and just the best, not just audition, it was like the best performance I'd ever seen. Being a casting director means that you get to sit front row to some of the best performances in the world that nobody else will ever see. And that's the truth. I have been so fortunate to have the experience of working in casting and seeing actors who everybody knows take on roles that nobody else will ever see them do, that nobody else will ever know that they had the ability to execute as flawlessly as they did and we know that.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (35:10):

And that's why I think a lot of people try to make projects without casting directors. And they really don't understand how critical that role is. We have all of that knowledge in our minds. We've seen all of these actors do all of these different things that you will never know that they could do or not do. And so I realized that in casting, what found so fascinating was putting these puzzle pieces of the cast together. As a producer, you're putting all those puzzle pieces together, all of them. How it's going to look, how it's going to feel, who's going to be in it, like all those different elements that ultimately culminate in this final product, you as a producer are kind of responsible for putting that all together. And I just feel like it's such this amazing experience, but also responsibility to constantly challenge yourself to want to do the best. I constantly want to make sure that when I'm executing is worthy of being executed, if that makes sense.

Charlie Sandlan (36:20):

You know I think a triple threat nowadays is actor-writer-producer, and there's a lot of actors out there that they've written something and they want to do something with it. What does an actor need to understand about producing, if they want to create their own shit?

Kate Lacey-Kiley (36:36):

Here's the thing, nobody taught me how to produce. I was fortunate enough that I was able to observe these incredible producers when I worked at Disney, but mind you at the time, never in a million years would I ever say, I want to be a producer. And so it's not like I was really keying in on everything that they were doing, but I observed the good producers. The tone that I set as a producer is ultimately going to be the tone of this production. And so I feel that right now, actors out there who aren't getting the auditions that they were getting because of the slowdown of COVID, who aren't getting a chance to be on center stage, they do have the opportunity to create their own work. And I said this, look, you know I've been saying this for years, actors act, make your own stuff with YouTube and all these TikToks. There's such incredible opportunity for actors to be seen now that we've never had before.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (37:29):

When it comes down to, well, how do they produce? Look, I didn't know what I was doing with Casting By, I literally fell into this role. So I took it one day at a time. My husband always says, you know that saying, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time, right? It's not the whole thing at once. And so that's how I think you approach it. I think that you say to yourself, okay, what is it that I want to make? And what are the elements that need to fall into place to be able to make it, and let me tackle this first element. And then let me tackle that second element and putting it all together. What I would say is, I think there's too much of a rush to put something together because they have this really great idea and it's going to be fantastic and let's shoot it this weekend. I don't think that's the right way to go about it. I think if you have a good idea, it's worth sitting and formulating it to the best of its potential, because a good idea can become a really poor idea in execution. So for me, it's all about execution, making sure that you're paying attention to those fine details.

Charlie Sandlan (38:34):

And you've been seeing what this pandemic has done to the business. You had so many projects in the pipeline that you were like really close to some major shit till lock down.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (38:46):

Everything shifted. I mean, it first started with COVID, everything kind of shut down. And then it was a whole reshuffling and reorganizing and projects are getting dropped because they have to focus on how are they going to even finish making the one that they were in the middle of production on. And so that all kind of threw a wrench into everything. My producing partner is Kate Upton, and we both feel strongly that... And this has been our mission statement since we began that the content that we put forth somehow inspires its audience and leaves the audience somehow with a message of positivity.

Kate Lacey-Kiley (39:21):

And I think that now that we've experienced this moment of time, look it shifted some of our projects and yeah, we were at the five yard line and we're basically back to the start of the game. But I feel like it's actually kind of really made the projects that we're taking out stronger. It's made our company in my opinion, a better company. And so I think that again, going back to looking for the positives and the negatives, we all have an obstacle in front of us. Okay. Well, as an actor, you have obstacles in front of you every single day. How do you get around that obstacle? I never accept a no, you know this. It really is up to you to say, okay, well, this person is saying no, but it's just one person. And I believe in what I'm doing, I believe in what I have to offer. And so how do I get it to continue moving forward, taking the feedback from the person that said no, and using it creatively and constructively, but how do I get to that yes? Well, that's what... What I'm doing right now is what I think everybody should do.

Charlie Sandlan (40:28):

When was the moment where you felt the most hopeless or despondent, where you were like, you know what? This just might be the time for me to completely bow out. Did you ever get to a point like that where you were like so anxious?

Kate Lacey-Kiley (40:48):

What is it Wednseday? (Laughter) I mean, listen, I'm being challenged right now. This is a rough, rough time. Everybody in this business is being challenged, but this is the beauty of our business is that we are so fortunate to be able to engage in this incredible storytelling process. And I, on my worst day, will still wake up being thankful that I get to be a part of it. And I've been waking up on my worst days, but I still love it so much. I still believe in the power of film and television and theater productions. I believe it's a huge responsibility to share something inspirational with the world. I believe it's a huge responsibility to provide somebody out there who just lost their job because of COVID the opportunity to escape for half an hour, hour and a half into a film or a television show that makes them laugh or just takes them away from the stresses of their life. I think that's a really critical, important role that we play in society. And so I will forever be thankful that I'm doing it. And as hard as it gets, I will constantly remind myself of how important it is so that I continue to be inspired.

Charlie Sandlan (42:04):

What would you want to pass along to maybe that 19 year old kid coming out of Emerson or anybody listening here that is still plugging away and has a dream?

Kate Lacey-Kiley (42:17):

Yeah, I would say never lose sight of that dream and never lose the excitement that you feel towards pursuing it. I think it's the moment that you let in the doubt and the rejection that you're screwed. I mean, I think you just have to remind yourself of why you're doing it, why it matters to you and why it matters to the world and hold on to that. And whenever you're feeling the weight of rejection or dismayed just come back to it.

Charlie Sandlan (42:57):

Well, my fellow daydreamers now you know my childhood nickname. (Laughter) Thank you for sticking around and keeping that phone in your pocket. You can subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. If you have a few seconds and you can review it on iTunes, that would be fantastic. You can go to my website, https://www.creatingbehaviorpodcast.com for the links and content to every episode, you can book me for private coaching, read my blogs. If you're interested in training with me at my NYC acting conservatory,, for more information go to https://www.maggieflaniganstudio.com You can follow me on Instagram @creatingbehavior, @maggieflaniganstudio. Lawrence Trailer, thank you for the music, my man. My friends stay open to possibility, walk through those doors when they open. Play full out with yourself, and don't ever settle for your second best. My name is Chip Sandlan, peace.