Muscle Talk! Pittsburgh pro preview with special guest Aaron Clark

John is joined by special guest, IFBB pro, Aaron Clark, as they break down the Pittsburgh Pro.

#bodybuilding #ifbb #fitness

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

All right, serious and silliness bodybuilding. This is muscle talk. And this is actually a special muscle talk because I have with me Aaron Clark. What's up, Mr. Clark? What's happening? What's up, guys? How are you? Uh we're doing we're doing pretty good. I got you, I got you on. We're gonna be doing a short interview and then we're gonna be jumping into the Pittsburgh Pro. Cool. Sounds good. So my first question to you is uh you just told me you you had uh turn pro in 2012.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

And I remember when you turned pro, um you like blew up on the scene. Everybody was talking about Aaron Clark. You were at the time you were in 212, right? Yeah, you were I remember every like it was you were like like the biggest name in that in in the next couple of years. Oh yeah, everybody was talking about you. I remember the guy who trained the guy who trained me, I was competing in 2012 NPC. I wasn't really that good, which is why I have a microphone. The only two types of people that are critics are the people that are failed athletes or retired athletes. Uh okay, yeah. I'm the failed athlete. Yeah. What is failed?

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Failed in bodybuilding is very ambiguous, anyways, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah, failed means I couldn't or wasn't good enough to get a pro card.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yeah, oh well.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

So I remember the guy who was training me, he passed away uh two years ago. His name is Guy Del Corso, and he was like, Yeah, I like this new kid, Aaron Clark, he's really good. And Guy was training me, and he was in his late 60s, early 70s. So he was around, he's been around since you know the Schwarzenegger days. Wow, yeah. So anyway, so um, and so I wanted to know because are you still competing? Because you're you know you have a big presence on on social media.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah, man. Uh I did a show in uh I don't know how familiar are you with my timeline? Not not really, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:58

No, I give a take. Yeah, I'm not, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Yeah, so I did a show in 2020 and I didn't one in 2021. Okay, I haven't been on stage since then, and I'm kind of just undecided whether I here's the thing when you're in the 212, you're not carrying around so much mass that you gotta be like, that's it, right? Because sit around this weight, I eat four times a day and I train six days a week because I want to, right? And I stay around this size now. Um, so I'm kind of undecided, it's not as high of a priority as it once was, obviously. And just like you said, you know, for a while you were chasing uh pro card, right? Like it's a goal you have, but I'm just saying, like when you set out, you have that goal, you want to obtain this right thing, right? And I think for myself, I was very blessed to like achieve a lot of things really quick. But then you know, in bodybuilding, there comes a point where you're like, that's about as good as I'm gonna do, and then and then you have to answer the question, okay, so what am I chasing? Right. For some people, maybe they just love to do it, and that's fine, and they can do it and be healthy about it, you know, healthy about it. Um, but yeah, I think uh that's kind of where I'm at with uh actually competing.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

I'm actually glad you actually said that because I say I say it all the time, and people kind of sometimes I get comments where people say that I I'm a hater, and you know, um, or I get uh a negative negative feedback from somebody that says, Don't, you know, I'm I'm chasing a dream, I'm you know, I'm gonna get there, so on so forth. But there comes a time where you have to kind of really look, uh and and and and you have to look at yourself and say, okay, you know, I'm not getting younger. What am I going to do if I continue to chase this dream and I'm not making money? My whole life is on pause. I don't have friends, I don't have family. You kind of have to do some soul searching and be real with yourself because I've seen people literally spend 10, 20 years, and their whole life passes them by, and they're just trying to turn pro.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Or they finally turn pro and then they jump on stage, and the worst thing that happens when you turn pro, it's literally like welcome to the welcome to the NFL rookie. Yeah, you're starting from the bottom again. Yeah, yeah, you know, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

And um a different pond at that point, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

And it's not it's not being negative, it's being real. You know, when you see somebody like yourself, or when you see somebody like a Nick Walker or Elite Priest, you guys were destined to be professional bodybuilders. You could see it from your first show. You go, this kid's got it. Uh, and then there are people that don't or aren't that blessed, and they love it and they keep chasing it. And I wasn't gonna be one of those people that let my life go by and not have a career and not uh uh get married and not buy a home and and waste all my time on something like this. I had to be real with myself, and I and I remember the day. I remember, I remember, and it's funny, I know I'm interviewing you, but I'm I tell the story all the time. If anybody watches the show, I remember I won three shows in a row in the NPC. I run, I won uh, and they were all master's classes because by that point I was in my 30s. I had one one show um open and I won three masters, and I'm like, that's it, I'm doing Team Universe, I'm gonna get my pro card. I go to Team Universe, and that was the year that John Meadows turned pro.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

And it was a rude awakening, and I looked at him, and because back then I was able to, I would I they I would do um I was working as an expediter backstage because that's how much I really loved it. Like half the time I didn't get paid, like Maz would call me, or Guy Del Costa would call me, yeah. And I was able to see him up close, and I was like, I'm who am I kidding? Yeah, I'm never gonna look like that. Yeah, and then I just went home and I was like, I'm I'm dumb, I'm done. This is I'm not gonna do this, you know.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

It has a different place in everybody's life, and I think that you have to, it's an extreme thing, so there comes a point for everybody. Some people, it may be further along than others, but I think you have to be like, what is the label I'm gonna put on this in my life? Like, is this just a hobby and a like a healthy lifestyle? We could call it where I like to eat meal prep and train and be big, or am I really aiming for like to be one of the best? And is that in the cards? And like, like you said, some people when you tell them to be realistic, they're like, Oh, that how could that's so negative? Don't listen to anybody that's tells you to be realistic, right? Well, sure, but I know that my skeleton is less gifted than someone else's skeleton, right? Like, like, and there's not that it's nothing to do with manifesting and negativity and all the bullshit, just black and white, right? That's it. So, yeah, everybody has to there's there's always gonna be that fork in the road where you're like, all right, we did this, cool. What do we get? What are we willing to sacrifice to aim for the next level? And is that even like like you said, does it even make sense?

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yeah, it has to make sense. Is it achievable and does it make sense?

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Especially look, if you're 23, 24, and you want to just fucking you know, throw one in the just just try to hit that half short, yeah, half court, you know, right? Go ahead, fuck it. But when yeah, you get to a point where you're like, all right, you start to. I, you know, in my early 20s, I wasn't scared of anything, like I know no protocol, nothing. I was like, what do I have to do to win? Right, no problem. Um, and then you get in your 30s and you're like, Oh, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, like yeah, you just start having thoughts about all that. You're like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Well, when you're in your 20s, you think you're superhuman, right? And then you get to your 30s and you realize you're not, and you realize that you're responsible for other people now, you're responsible for other people, and and that all these things that you do, like uh everything comes at a cost.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Oh, yeah. Are you willing to pay it, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah, willing to pay the tax? Yeah, that's how it goes. You know, it's the gods, it's the it's the truth. Um, so you did a show in 2020 and 2021, and I've noticed that you've been doing a lot of content on social media now. Um is that was that the immediate transition, or did you do something? Did it take time for you to say, okay, how am I gonna fill this void? Uh, or are you or did you go into a completely different direction before you started doing your content on social media?

SPEAKER_01 9:20

I think that's uh I've always had Instagram, right? Like for since probably 2013, but just like a lot of bodybuilders, the only thing I would post on it was like right, yeah, yeah, yeah. My like, look at how pumped I am after my death workout, all that kind of stuff, right? Uh and I always felt really self-conscious talking, making videos. Really? Everywhere, yeah, never look like a natural when I'm watching. Oh, but you know how it is, like things become easy once you just start beating them into yourself, right? Like over and over and over again, and eventually you'll choke it down. But um I think it was a few years ago, I was like, you know, I should just make more videos, um, because I was just starting to get into coaching a little bit, and you know, it's it's good to just put a voice out there, have something to people resonate with, or you know, provide some type of value, whatever it might be. So I would just kind of experiment, and I remember one day I made a video with a whiteboard in the background. Yeah, just randomly, because sometimes it's good, but when you're just talking like this and filming, there's not like you have to be very engaging and short, otherwise, there's no visual, right? It's the truth, it's true. So it you were kind of boring, right? After a while, like remember just talking a talking head, yeah. So I was like, maybe this visual help. And so I made a video, and people like, oh uh, and so I was a I used to do a lot of cartooning back in the day. Oh, okay. Grew up doing that, so I already, you know, I dumb the drawings down when I do the whiteboard videos, but otherwise it would take me half a day probably to make one. Oh but uh it just kind of worked, I guess, and I kept making them. And for about a year, I made one every day. I've made over 300 of those.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Oh, really? Because they they come out great, and I can't, I mean, I can't fucking draw a stick figure, so um, it really do look like a natural. But what's funny that you said that is like people say that about me, right? When I'm doing like a video and they go, you know, you do it so well, and it came so comes out so smooth. And I go, Do you know how many times I had to do that?

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

I'm like, I go, I go, look, I tried that 10 times before I got it perfect. So yeah, and they just think they just think it comes in off, it's like, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

It doesn't work with an idea to get a whiteboard video that's like two minutes, let's say. Yeah, I would write down the whole script, I would come up with it, right? Write it all down, and then I would tape it on the wall next to me so I could see it. Yeah, and I would draw each scene, and then I would deliver it one line at a time because I'm not gonna read it, then I'm not gonna memorize the whole thing, right? Right, right. Read it, and yeah, you stumble over your like the the like stumble over stuff, your voice cracks or something terrible, right? Yeah, so it would usually be like an hour, and then I would cut it down into two minutes.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Yeah, no, it's it's the truth. You're a hundred percent right. I can't tell you how many times I'm trying to do something, and for for a little while, and this is when I knew I was in I wasn't in my wheelhouse. When I do bodybuilding, I'm in my wheelhouse, and when I'm interviewing somebody, I'm in my wheelhouse because I have another channel. I don't know if you can do that. I have another channel where I interview, it's mostly interviews. Okay, and um I tried doing some politics and I tried doing some current events, and it would take me hours just to do stuff because I I didn't have my finger on the pulse, I didn't know what was going on. People had different opinions. Who am I listening to? Where am I reading this from? Who's it? And you know what? I was like, this isn't, it's not gonna work, it's not gonna come across genuine, it's not gonna come across sincere. I got rid of it, and as soon as I went back to interviewing the mob guys and the biker guys and the porno stars, okay. Fucking subscribers went through the roof again. I'm like, this is it, you know. But um, so you you started how long have you been coaching?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

I mean, on and on, you know, I coached people back when I was competing a little bit, but up until um man, I guess it was late. I was training people in a gym for a long time, like a lot, like like personal training? Yeah, I would do like 70 sessions a week or something, you know, like a lot of sessions. And I kind of slowly cut back as I tried to build my online, and then eventually in uh around fall 2024, I think I left the gym. Okay. Um so yeah, and yeah, it's cool. I mean I'm still kind of branching out and and building some things, but yeah, it's been it's been cool. And I repost some of the videos I make now, the whiteboard ones, because like I said, they take so much time.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Like the more clients you get, then you're like, man, am I gonna just sit here and make a video all afternoon? Like so, yeah, but it's cool, man. I I really value being creative, and I think the cool thing is I feel like with bodybuilding, like I mentioned before, I grew up being a kid who was always drawing, and I was like into music and like kind of like dark stuff, but like creative, you know, and I didn't really like sports. I was a skateboarder, and then you know, I just fell into bodybuilding, and I feel like when I really embraced bodybuilding fully, I kind of let that creative side of me kind of wither away. So it's cool to be able to feed both, and uh that's the that's the beauty of the you know the day and age that we are in now is because you can take something that is part of your life and repackage it however you want, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Yeah, 100%. And all the time, and it's given it's given people like yourself, it's given people like me uh a way to make a living, make money, enjoy ourselves. I mean, don't get me wrong, I still have a regular job, that's why I do the stuff at night. Yeah, but it it you know, social media for all the bad that it has, and there's a lot of trash. Of course, it there really is a good side to it. And the and the good side is the fact that people like you and me could, well, especially people like you, could have a voice and say, hey, listen, you know, this is how you should go about doing this, and somebody who's really educated on something could really flourish. And we've seen people come out of nowhere and flourish because they're so educated or because they know a topic. Yeah, no, and and and then we've seen it throughout social media where before social media those people would never be able, you know, the Jordan Petersons and the you know, the you know, the the the Joe Rogans and the Patrick McDavid's, you would know no clue these people were. Um, and they're able now they're able to have a voice and a platform to show who they are. And personally, I love it because I'm not a big Hollywood guy. I don't like following uh uh I like the idea of a regular person becoming famous and making money over a person that um you know I would go to the movies to see if that makes sense. Well, you feel like it's more raw, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:26

It's not sort of like this is what you could talk about, right? After this opinion, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

And I don't and I don't want to know what Robert De Niro's opinions are. I just want to watch Taxi Driver, just leave there's absolutely, you know. So um, so okay, so you're doing the online presence where you're doing great. Um, are you do you still do personal training or basically just doing online coaching?

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Um technically, I do work with a gym, but I I don't have any in-person people right now. I'm all online. Okay, I would prefer it that way. It gets tough, man, when you have, especially when you're almost all online and you have people in prep, and then like maybe you have one or two clients. Like, are you gonna go drive there? Yeah, and all the way back. Tough does it make sense, right? Um, that's kind of where I'm at now. It's like I may as well invest in the thing that has a literally unending ceiling, right? That's right, that's right. That's how I see it. I I agree with you on that. That's the thing though with personal training in a gym, is it's usually not to a point, it's usually until you it beats you into the ground, right? Like every day, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:47

And I've noticed uh a lot of a lot of personal trainers. Uh me and Lee did a video. We did a video on this. Uh, a lot of personal trainers, um, not that they don't know what they're doing, but they don't really care about the progress the person's making as long as they're coming back. No, but they they like to they like to basically create a relationship, yeah, with the person, knowing that they're gonna come back and they're enjoying themselves instead of seeing actual progress, you know. Nobody wants like you know, the the uh the the uh the the stay-at-home mom doesn't want to go to the gym and get yelled at because she didn't eat right, right? So she so you get a lot of people that go, oh don't worry, you know, we'll we'll do this and we'll do that, and how's the kids and how's your husband and how's everything?

SPEAKER_01 19:40

And you look great today, and and it just becomes I mean, it's it's it's something else, it's not it's it is a service, right? Right, right, right. And at least you know, I've experienced it in different lights. I think in like a big box gym, half the people that's what they want. They want like a gym friend, right? And like that's what they want. So that's what you're providing, you know, and yeah, and they don't want they only want to be held so accountable, right? Right, right, right. It's like it's your money, right? If someone comes to me for coaching, I know that they want me to be like, hey, you're fucking up, like what are you doing? Right, right, right. But the people at the gym, yeah, they don't most I've had a few who did, of course. Yeah, the majority, like you said, they're just they just want to feel like they're doing something right.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Oh, yeah. My wife, my wife has friends uh that go to the gym and uh take uh you know, Red Atrue Tide, and you don't see a stitch of progress. It's wild. Yeah, you don't see any, they're just as fat as ever. Okay, whatever. You know, um, all right. So now have you been following 2026? Have you been following the shows?

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Yeah, look, I mean, I on Instagram, it's almost inevitable to see a little bit of what's going on, right? I've been obviously uh a pro bodybuilder for a while, so uh I'm following all these pages that post uh the winners.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

I I know I uh I know I was looking at I'm pulling it up right now.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

I was uh I was actually there at the New York Pro. Oh awesome. Yeah, because it's 20 minutes, it's literally 20 minutes from me.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

So I was I was there, and um don't get me wrong, I don't buy the most expensive seats. So I buy the cheap tickets. So but when uh you know when you're in the cheap seats and Tony O'Burton comes out and I could see the muscle separation and de definition from twelve rows behind, that's your winner.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah, I think it was like I think it could have gone either way, but I like I to me Antonio is he's a specimen. He's a gifted, gifted human being. And that uh I don't say that to take away from him at all. It's it's awesome. Yeah. But just like um oh my god. I'm drawing a blank. Jacked, Andrew Jacked. Okay, yeah, he's just gifted. Like you just look at him be like, nobody will look like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yeah. And there's nothing you can do about it. You know, is the truth. There's no protocol is that is God gifted, you know. Tony O is the same way. Obviously, he's this more compact guy, but his content roundness is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Like it's unbelievable. And when you what's funny is that when you see him up close with clothes on, he doesn't look that impressive, and then he it's kind of like a Sean Clarita. He takes his shirt off and you go, What the fuck? Holy shit, it's bubbly and separated and chiseled and hard and grainy, and nothing's out of proportion. He's just a gifted human being. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

I feel like a lot of the best bodybuilders I've ever seen didn't look huge in their clothes, like especially from Showtime. Like, even I remember when Phil Heath came on the scene, and I I had just it's probably like my first year of college, and like they had him backstage, and you wouldn't even guess. Yeah, because he's you know, his clavicle is not wide, it's a small boned person. He just looks, but you know, as soon as he gets up there, you're like, Oh shit, right? Unbelievable. It's that roundness, and I think a lot of the guys that have that that muscle that jumps off their frame, their frame isn't so fucking big like some of these other guys, right? So, yeah, the backstage, it's like a stealth, the dark horse, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Yeah, it's it's it's un, it's literally unbelievable when you see and and I'm a fan of the freaks, like I was always a fan of the freaks. Samson Dowd is my favorite bodybuilder, followed by Nick Walker, because I was always the fan of the freaks. But at the same time, you know, you kind of you have to separate your emotion and your fanfare to what what bodybuilding truly is. And when you follow bodybuilding in a classical sense, and you go, okay, I know Mike Chriso was a beast, but no, he doesn't deserve to win the show. It's Tony's show, you know. Um, and what would strange is that Chriso comes on stage, he came on stage, and you're like, oh shit just got real. You're like, whoa. And then when you put Tony next to him, you're like, oh, now I could see a lot of flaws because Tony was like literally picture perfect. Now you see the, you know, um, and it's just it's just the the way the way it is. Um now going into Pittsburgh, uh basically the only difference in Pittsburgh is going to be Brandon Curry and Sas Harati.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

And what's the name?

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Uh Sas Harati. Oh, Sasan Harati. Yeah, Sasan Harati. Uh oh, so we got Patrick Moore, uh, Mike Crizzo, of course, Sas Harati, uh Nathan Epler, Brandon Curry, Tony Oberton, Raphael Brandau, Devon Barnes, who I've had on before, a young up-and-coming bodybuilder. Blessing. I know I recognize this guy. You know, he's he just he won FIBO. He just won FIBO. He's freaky, yeah. Yeah, and he um he brings a lot of grit and great uh balance, symmetry, and conditioning. So to me, um I I think it's gonna come down to the same two guys, Tony and Chriso, but what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 26:08

I would think so. I think that Brandon Curry is always a wild card in there, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:14

He's he's gonna be in the top, he's gonna be in the top five.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

There's a I saw it at the Olympia, or I'm sorry, not the Olympia, the Arnold. Yeah, but he looked uh incredible, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

The place significantly higher. Yeah, yeah. And then when he went to the Arnold UK, he came in second. Yeah, and so yeah, he I I don't think they're gonna overlook him.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Yeah, I hope not. Um Patrick Moore is somebody who man, I I feel like I feel like he's always just a little off, and that's just from what I've seen at least.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

But he uh Patrick Moore seems to all right. Uh I have a reputation of being real, yeah. Okay, so I'm just gonna tell you what I've heard. I can't tell you, I can't tell you if it's a hundred percent. I'm just gonna tell you what I've heard. All uh I but where there's smoke, there's fire. Put it that way. I've heard I've heard Patrick Moore doesn't listen to his coaches. Uh I've heard Patrick Moore is always in trouble getting thrown out of gyms. I've I've heard uh uh Patrick Moore has words backstage with bodybuilders. Um uh and he is the type of in my opinion, he is the type of bodybuilder where if he doesn't come in peeled, he gets lost in the shuffle. Yeah, he's got great shape, amazing, incredible shape, amazing, amazing shape. And I think um if I think he's kind of the but the type of bodybuilder that if he's not you know 95 to 100, he's gonna get lost in the shuffle. Yeah, uh, because there was that one year that he did the Olympia and he looked amazing, and everybody was like, Oh shit. I think he what year was that? I'm trying to remember uh he broke the tie, it was uh 21, 22, one of the ones after COVID, and he broke the top 10, and everybody was just like, Wow, this guy could be really good, and it's kind of been like you know, up and down for him ever since. Um, you know, um, I'm just telling you what I've heard, I don't know, but I've heard that he's his own worst enemy, you know. Uh it might be true, it might not be true. I'm just letting you know what I've heard.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

The truth is probably that it's exaggerated, but somewhere in the middle, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah, somewhere in the middle, right? But he's the kind of guy that if he comes in, you know, like we saw at the old UK, yeah, he came in really good, he took third, then he comes at the New York Pro, he's off, and like he's in second call out, battling for seventh place, right? You know, um, and he's that kind of bodybuilder, and it it's it's unfortunate because he does have uh a genetically beautiful physique, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Another guy, um who I have your list here, that's what I'm looking at here.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Yeah, no, go right ahead. Another guy who I hope does well, who I've turned into a fan, is um is Blessing.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

I've turned so cool, man. He's such a great dude. He's really been I feel like he's had a hard time really coming in, like people hope he does.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Yeah, there are two there are two types of bodybuilders that I've become fans of. One is the freaks, of course. I love the freaks, and the other type of bodybuilders, the guys that don't quit. Yeah, I I have so much respect for the guys that don't quit, and he seems to be that bodybuilder that just refuses to quit.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

I mean, so all the muscle, yeah. He had an injury, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00 30:05

I don't know, but I know his it's it's primarily his legs um that are a little undersized and his waist is a little thicker. But when he comes in shape, he breaks the top five like he did at the at the New York Pro. Yeah, but I've become a huge fan of his because he does Sas Harati is the same way. I don't know if you remember, but last year Sas did on like five or six shows before he won one. He kept coming in second place, third place, second place, third place, and he wouldn't quit. And then you become a fan of the grit and the ambition that the guys have. Um, and and I've become a fan of blessing because of that, because he's just I'm not quitting this year. I'm I'm I'm going like his attitude is I'm gonna win one. I'm gonna you throw enough shit against the wall that something's gonna shoot.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Yeah, he's shooting. I remember he used to do a lot of silly videos, yeah, years ago, right? Yeah, and I say this obviously, it doesn't really change the situation, it takes scrit. I also feel that he kind of put himself in a good spot with that. I think he made a good amount of money, yes, no, and great personality, right? And so I think he kind of has himself set up so that he can keep showing up. He's not like he has to choose between that and feeding a family or something, right? Like, so yeah, fuck it, man. I mean, he he looks he's like I said, he's got all the muscle, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Oh, so I've become a fan of his, but um honestly, I think the guys that we're gonna be seeing, and and correct me if I'm wrong, I think we're gonna be seeing Brandon Curry, Mike Crizzo, and Tonyo in that first call out. That would be my guess. Um, after that, it's kind of you know, yeah, it because because Sas Harati throws a monkey wrench into it. He does because he's got a lot of size. I forget exactly how big he is, but he has he has great shape and conditioning all the time, yeah. And so that throws a monkey wrench into Raphael and blessing.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Yeah, I was gonna say Raphael is somebody who again, I it kind of like a Patrick Moore. I feel like he gets kind of lost in the mix.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Yeah, if he does, he's another guy who has this beautiful structure, this beautiful shape. And if he doesn't come in like spot on, bang, again, yeah, he kind of gets now. He's been, but give him his just do, he's been getting better and better with every show.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Oh, he whenever I see the pictures that he posts, yeah, wildly impressive.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

So if he keeps going the way he's going, he might be able to, you know, do damage because every show he seems to be getting better, but he's better. He did uh New York, which was better than the Arnold, and then and then if he does better at the Arnold, if he looks better at the Arnold, I know it's only a week, but a week is a is a is a considerable amount of time to make a change. Um he could he could definitely pose a threat. Yeah. So gun gun to your head, who do you think is winning?

SPEAKER_01 33:20

I mean I think Tonyo, based on what I saw, yeah, that would be who I would who I would but if he were if right, if he were to show up off, then um, you know, it could be a a swim swap from last week, right? Yeah, yeah. Because it is close, like even though Tonyo beats him, it's like he's still super impressive. So if he comes in off and it's like, well, he's got conditioning way better, then he could pull it off.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Yeah, and Chriso has so much muscle, he probably can lose two or three pounds and still be a freak.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Lose ten. Yeah, you probably can't.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Yeah, really. Um, I know a lot of bodybuilders don't like talking about this, but do you think that politics will play a role? So here's what I mean by that. Tonio wins the New York Pro last week. He already punches his ticket to the Olympia. Um do you think they might pick a Crizzo over Tonio just so they can get to the Olympia? Just so there's just so there's more people on that stage?

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Well, they I don't know. I I've I will say that in my experience competing, there were several shows where I was like, hmm, yeah, yeah. What they're doing here, and you know what? That's the game, yeah. You know, that's how it is. That's just like it's it's a business, we're selling tickets, we're creating hype, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Yeah, you know, like um I I fully agree. I think the only Jesus, you know, when uh the only time, in my opinion, that you can't do that is when somebody is so undeniable, sure, but like like Andrew Jacked, right? Andrew did two Arnolds in a row, and it's like that's he's undeniably the winner, you know. If they would have gave it to Brandon at the Arnold UK, it would have been social media would have exploded, right? Um, but you know, if Tonyo comes off like you know, two, three percent and Chris will gets a little better, you could make that argument, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Yeah, and if and if you leave the door open a little bit, I think that you allow for the the politics to like because it for all we know, like to be honest, it could even be like a subconscious thing, right? You're judging and you're like, Well, he is already qualified, right? So it it's again just a human element, yeah. We is human judges, there will always, always, always be some degree of bias based on the variables that you know, like you're a hundred percent right, it's never fair, right? So that's just it is what it is. All only thing you could do is just come in and like just fucking nail the door shut, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Like, yes, so you're you're a hundred percent right. And and as a matter of fact, I had this uh conversation with Akeem Williams, he was on my show a couple of weeks ago. What happened?

SPEAKER_01 36:43

I said I like Akeem.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Uh Hakeem is great, and I made a made a complete, I don't know if you saw that, but I made a complete fool out of myself. Uh I uh we were talking, I I had me, Akeem, and Chris Masaro. Chris Masarro is a new pro, just turned pro last year, and the three of us were talking about the New York pro and we were arguing who not arguing, we're discussing who's gonna come in third. You know, can Patrick beat Raphael? Can Raphael beat Patrick? That's who we had in the third. So Chris says, Chris says, I'm gonna say Patrick because Patrick looked great at the Arnold UK, and then I said, Yeah, he looked at the Arnold UK, but after third place, everybody else looked like shit. And now he's in a deeper lineup. And Akeem Williams was in that lineup. Yeah, and I was like, and Arkeem goes, you know, I was in that show, right? And I went, oh my god, oh my god. That's funny, and I was like, fuck me, man. So I did it. The what I could only do, I clipped it, I put it on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and I ran, I I just wrote open mouth insert foot. John embarrasses himself. And I was like, I just like I couldn't apologize enough. I was like, let me show the world what a fool I am, right? Um but okay, so what what I was trying to say was this was really a good. I I'm always I'm always thinking from a critic's point of view and a fan's point of view. And Hakeem Williams gave me another point of view, the athlete's point of view. And we were talking about, I was like, why are they not doing these these small shows with the you know, like Rafael Brandau could have already qualified for the Olympia if he did the Arnold Brazil, you know, um, why is he not doing that? And Hakeem Williams said, if you come in second, third, or fourth place at the New York Pro or at the Pittsburgh Pro, you you're gonna be noticed more than if you win a show like Arnold Brazil when none of the judges that are at the Olympic at the Olympia there are there. And he said it's just the truth. He goes, If you if you create damage at the Pittsburgh or New York, and then you go on to win a smaller show, they're gonna remember you because the Tyler's gonna remember you, Steve Weinberg is gonna remember you, because after Pittsburgh, that's all anybody talks about. You know, uh last year was oh, Derek and Nick, and Nick and Derek, and who's gonna take what, and so on and so forth, and blah blah blah. And um he said, Don't think that doesn't have an effect on the judges. It does, and I never thought about that. It never thought about that. I'm just saying thinking to myself, well, what these missed opportunities, nobody's doing FIBO, nobody's doing Brazil, you know. So, what do you think of that comment? Of what he what he said about that about what he said absolutely true.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

That's why I mean, and when I say this, I'm not being negative, it's just like what it is. Like, why would people travel all the way to Bev Francis to have them see their posing, right? Right, like it's not it's great, but like why would you really do that? Like, so that they have they're thinking about one reason, yeah. Right, it's it's a game, it's a game, and and uh I think with anything where you're trying to get noticed, right, and you're trying to create a uh almost uh expectation of yourself for these people, you you want you have to be strategic about like where you're showing yourself, where you're putting your effort. It's like investing, like choosing the right the right stocks or coins or whatever, right? Like that's how it is. Um, I I was definitely somebody who I would pick like one show, maybe two, right? Right. I wouldn't be like this, that, that, this, this, because of if I did the New York and the Arnold, right? Like I like you said, people were talking about me. It's because I did those shows, right? New York, like that's where that's just that's how it is. If I if I had chosen some, I don't know, Cali Pro, Chicago Pro, Puerto Rico Pro, probably wouldn't have Chicago's pretty big, but like, yeah, uh, yeah, it's different, man. Yeah, it's cool to do those shows if you're just seeking the qualification right later than people do them. But it's it's a hundred percent true, man. It all I when people ask about politics, they're like, Does politics exist stuff? Like of course it does. Yeah, is it is it everything that you think it is, and what people say, maybe not. Has it been? I'm sure it has before, but it's a judged, it's a judged competition, right? So it's open-ended, just like any, like I had a sister who is a figure skater, right? They're judged, someone like gives them a rating. It's not like you shoot a basket, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Or even powerlifting, where it's like you did the you lifted the fucking weight, good job, right? That's it, yeah. You got it. Ambiguous, so you never know. Yeah, how much does that matter? Like, we don't really know, but you may as well uh try to stack it to your advantage, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Right, right, right, right. No, you I I you know it's it's it's what makes horse races, and uh you happen to be a hundred percent right. I don't think it's as bad as it was years ago. No, like I I think I think now it's more about, like you said, the human element. You know, people that that notice you, uh people that are you're you're you're in their head because of social media or because you saw them at the the gym or whatever the case may be. Um, people are talking about you. But I want to say, and I might be wrong, but I'm of the opinion that during the Wida days before social media, it was much worse. I'm sure it was, but again, I think that uh because there were a couple of shows, there were a couple of Olympias where you go, really, really, dude. Really?

SPEAKER_01 43:14

I think there is a lot more control, yeah. Because now I say this all the time: all the bodybuilders have the balls in their court to create or to be seen, right? Like when I started, when I turned pro, you were more or less waiting for Flex Magazine or Muscular Development to like give you a little moment in the spotlight. Yeah. You weren't really going to do it yourself. And the supplement contracts were a bigger thing back then. Yes, yes, yeah. And so all of those like that gives power to it, takes power away from the athlete and it gives it to the IFEB and these companies, because these companies are sponsoring the events. Right, right, right, right, right. So if they're you know, if this company gave hundreds of thousands of dollars for this event, and their guy is here, like, don't I mean it's it's my day, right? Right, right, right, right, right. How it goes. I'm not even uh by saying that I'm not saying that's what happens, but it's like, I mean, come on, it it influences things.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

Let's let's be real, yeah. Let's not let's let's yeah, let's let's not bullshit each other. It definitely influences things 100%. There's no question about it. Now, do you still follow the 212? A little bit, yeah. Yeah, who do you like now in 212? Obviously, everybody likes you know Keon, but is there anybody that um you really like that uh you have your eye on and go, wow, this person could be really good?

SPEAKER_01 44:49

I I mean I think obviously Sean has been around forever. Yeah, I competed with Sean, yeah. Um and he's freaky, he's got all the muscle he can fit on his frame, really. It's unbelievable. Unbelievable. Um, but again, like we were talking about Sean is I admire him a lot for like he has maximized his body, like he's gone, he's gone to the top of what he's his potential is. Yes, and it's been enough, he's won the Olympia. Yeah, that's incredibly admirable, right? But at some point, I believe, and this is not any knock on anybody, of course, it's just real, his potential is not as high as like a Kion, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

And a Kion stands on stage and he's like, There's the winner, right? Yeah, I think that in the two the 212 is especially tricky, and I think it's the same with classic, like Chris Bumstead would win and win and win, and it's because his frame was like just right for that. Yes, yeah, right, and so when you add that weight cap, somebody's body and shape is just right for that number, right? And so, like Flex Lewis, when he would come in, he win and win and win, because he was just right, that was like he was right there, he wasn't missing anything at that rate, and that's tough, man. I think Keon is an example of that. I think he has to watch his midsection. Um, I'm saying as somebody who struggled with that myself, but I I can tell that he has uh yeah, that little where it separates, and you gotta be careful with that.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Yeah, because I think he could go into the open, but I get you're right. His he does have that problem with his waistline. You're 100% right, and you could see I think that's why he tries to pull a vacuum, which is smart, which is very smart.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

It's not even that his waist is big, you can just see that his abdominals have separated, yes, yes, yes, agreed.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Yeah, it has a look to it.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Um, but yeah, his vacuum is incredible. It's not that his waist is big, right?

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

But other than that, man, I you know, those are like the two guys at the front.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

Is there somebody that that you feel like well there's this one young kid from I believe I believe he's from Russia, he's a young kid. I think he came in third or fourth at the Olympia last year. He's very young, he's in his 20s. He could be very good. I forgot his act his name. It's yeah, obviously, some foreign name. Um, somebody will put it in the comment section. But getting back to Clarita, I am of the opinion that when he retires, um he's gonna be, and I mean, people will argue with me all day, he's gonna be probably the greatest bodybuilder under 200 pounds ever. Yeah, I would. I mean, I mean, I mean, I know this Lee Priest, but Lee only Lee was always on the border. You know, Lee competed anywhere from 198, 198 to 210, right? Um, but under 200 pounds, Sean Clarita is just a phenom. Just a phen. And I don't know if you've ever watched him work out. We because he's from Jersey, he lives in Texas now, and we used to go to the same gym, and the guy is a machine. I mean, I see it all on Instagram. The guy's a machine in the in the gym. He's a it was uh I used to watch him in awe because it was like non-stop, it was unbelievable. Yeah, you know, and he had his wife there, and his wife was like like almost like uh I don't know, who's the guy that protects the quarterback? You know, because because like if if if I went near a machine that he was using, she'd be like, don't even think about it. I'm like, okay, sorry. Yeah, security. It was they were a power couple, and they were, you know, and he he was just a fucking machine, man. And I'm sure he still is, you know. But um, yeah, I think when he retires, whenever it is, he's still got probably a few good years in the in the tank, but they he's gonna go down in history as one of the best, if not the best, under 200 pounds, because the kid is just he's just unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

You gotta have a certain uh frame to look good at those weights, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

Yeah, and nobody would have guessed it when he turned pro. I think he turned pro as a bantam weight or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

Oh yeah, nobody would have guessed.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

Like he turned, and nobody would have guessed he would have and then you know, you just you never know, you know.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

I feel that and this is speculating, obviously, and not obviously it's not taking away from anything, it's a good thing, but I feel that maybe somebody competing at lighter weights, like they don't have to do a lot of the things that people do to compete at 260, right? Yeah, and you could probably it could probably be a lot more sustainable, easier on your heart and and your joints and your back, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Dexter Jackson is a perfect example of that, yeah. You know, um Brandon Curry is a perfect example of that.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

Well, they're bigger though.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

I mean they're yeah, but they're not the freaks, like you know, you know, when you get guys like you know, like you said, like a like Dorian back in the day, all Ronnie, you see the damage they do to themselves. Uh but yeah, I'm I'm actually trying to let me see. Uh 212 Olympia results because there was this young kid, and I'll pull him up.

SPEAKER_01 50:32

Um there's a lot more young people now. Yeah, there was this young kid.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

Ah, Niat, Nyat Kaya. Let me I'll pull him up because this kid is really, really good. I just don't remember the name of yeah, this kid is is uh uh I wouldn't guess that name now. Yeah, here he is. Okay, okay. You could see this kid is right.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Yeah, I've seen that picture.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Yeah, uh, I think this kid is in his early 20s. Yeah, you know, and this was he came in fourth at uh the 212.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

At the Olympia?

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Yeah, at the Olympia. I mean, it was just really, he's really impressive. Yeah, you know, really, and this is two weeks before the Olympia is really impressive. Yeah, so he's a guy that I would keep my eye on. And again, like it's it's bodybuilding is funny. Once you kind of don't compete, like you get forgotten about. Yeah, you know, it's it's you just like it's it's almost like you're like you like nobody talks about like we I'm still waiting for Jordan Hutchinson, I'm still wessing waiting for um the guy from uh Canada, the big black dude. What's his name? Uh I can't remember his name. I think he's doing Toronto. Okay, so uh Quentin O'Reilly. I'm still waiting for him. You know, these are guys that you, you know, that um people aren't talking about because you know they haven't competed since last year. And same thing with this kid. It's like, okay, you know, let's not forget about these these guys coming up, but it's it's unfortunate. I don't know what I don't know why that is. Like it's the only sport where somebody doesn't compete and you forget about like no, like like I like it well.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

I think it's it's part of it is in their hands too. Like that kid, I don't know how much he posts, but he doesn't post a lot. That's true, too. Yeah, we do forget, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

But no, like you, you you know, you nobody you get like uh I'm trying to think like nobody forgets about Sean Strickland if he didn't fight last year. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Like there's I you know what I think it is. Do have this in front of their face all day, every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like stuff is just right, like because there's new coming in, right? Good point. So, like, if if you're not reminded, reminded reminded of someone or something of what they did, I think that we just kind of don't think about it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Very good point. You're you're 100% right. We're overstimulated, like, yeah, you know, and you're absolutely 100% right. Yeah, yeah, you're really right.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

I think uh damn, I lost my I was just gonna say that like, yeah I oh, this is what I was gonna say. I it's funny for me because people will recognize me and say, Oh, you're the whiteboard guy. That's that's what they know me as, you know. Like back, you know, people would be like, Oh shit, you you know, like I saw you won the New York Pro, whatever, right? Yeah, yeah. Now the people are like, Oh, you're the whiteboard guy.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Yeah, yeah. Okay, they don't even know the whiteboard guy.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

Listen, though, take what you can get, man. Forget it, you know. No, it's fine, it's funny. Take what you can get. Right now, I'm I'm uh I'm Lee Priest's best friend. That's that's up here. Oh, you're Lee Priest's friend, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's me. It's me. That's what people say. Great. I'll I'll take it. I don't give a shit. Aaron, listen, man. Um when next time uh when Lee's back, I want you to come on. We go on live on Mondays, and it's a lot more fun on Mondays because we call it shooting the breeze, and we just talk about we could talk about bodybuilding, but we talk about whatever. Okay, cool. So I definitely want you to come back, and I really appreciate you coming on, uh, man, and and and doing this with me. It's it's you know, I'm I'm a fan first. So all you guys that come on, um, it's just an honor having you on. So thank you. Appreciate it, man. Thank you. Of course, brother. All right, I will see you soon, bro. Take care, man. Later.