Anabolic Academy with John Livia and Jason Arntz: Charles Glass-Genius or over thinker?

Some people say Charles Glass is a genius when it comes to bodybuilding. His methods have helped bodybuilders get to the next level, but he seems to have been forgotten about. So is he as good as they say he is or is he making simple things more complicated than they should be?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

All right. We are live. Where are we? We're on Sirius. Jersey. Sirius Sillage Bodybuilding coming out of Jersey. Just like uh Joseph Potter's channel, straight out of Jersey. And uh this is Annabal Academy. I got brought to you by iPorve Subs. And the uh owner and operator is Jason Orange, who's with us. What's up, Big J? That's actually not big anymore.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

We gotta get that back.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Yeah, it's all right. I'll in due time.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

When I'm done with the chemo, we'll be moderately big again. When um when are you done with that? I have uh two. So this week I'm off chemo, and uh I have two more months. I'm in the second half. I have two more quarters. Each quarter is a month, and it's three weeks on, one week off. So that'll take me through um August and uh what do we mean? No, no, July and August. So I'll be done by the end of August.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Oh, okay. But it's gonna go by like a shot, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

Well, yeah, but then I gotta get that stem cell uh transplant, which knocks your immunity out entirely. That's when I gotta get all of my childhood vaccines again. I think I was telling you. Oh, you were telling me about that. Yeah, that's so my immune system's compromised now. It's it's better than it was when I first you know got out of the hospital after the heavy chemo. Yeah, now I'm on just moderate chemo. Um, but my my immune system isn't great great, but it's okay. Um, but once I get that uh once I get that stem cell transplant, who I could imagine. Yeah, I could I could get smallpox, dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Oh fuck that. No, yeah, yeah. Unbelievable. It's smallpox, like it's 1620. Right. Uh yeah, so we're gonna try to do it a little early every Wednesday. We're gonna try to do it at eight o'clock now. Um so it's a little bit more convenient for Jay. I try to actually do that for everybody. Speaking of which, I the next recording tonight for me is gonna be on uh 10 30. Um 10 30 tonight, I'm doing a another podcast. We're not going live, it's gonna be recorded, but that's because that's because Sergio Lever Jr. is coming on, and he is in um California, and he could and it's he can only do it at 7:30 his time, which is 10:30 my time. And then I had to make sure that that's okay with Lee because it's 12:30 tomorrow afternoon his time. So yeah. So I try to bend to everybody's will as long as I can get a good show. So all right, very nice. Uh uh Do you want to answer these questions? I don't know if you want to get into it.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

Oh, I understand. I can't I can't. I need my glasses, dude. I can't see shit. What did it say?

SPEAKER_00 2:45

It says uh what cancer did you have?

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Uh multiple myeloma. It's a it's a it's a blood cancer, but it's very very treatable, and uh we're we're doing we're doing pretty good. We're doing very good.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Last week, Jay returned to the uh to the show and we went deep into it. So if you want to watch uh last week's show, we went into great detail of what happened. Uh but this week we're gonna be talking about uh I want to talk about Charles Glass. Yeah. Back in the uh Yeah, I can hear you.

SPEAKER_04 3:18

Let me grab my glasses one second.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Go ahead, go ahead. Back in the 2000s, I would say early 2000s to like maybe 2014, 2015, uh a lot of bodybuilders were going to Charles Glass. Um I remember Dexter went to him, uh Sean Roden had gone to him. And he basically, he's kind of he he he set his reputation as the guy that you go to when you're at your peak and you need to develop even more and get to the next level. And now it seems like everybody has gone back to the basics and doesn't do this uh just different hand positions and different leg positions, and he kind of still does that. But when you see now bodybuilders today, you don't see him, you don't see them kind of overthinking it anymore, for lack of a better term. You see them sticking to the basics now, you know, the rows, uh, you know, the the rack poles, kind of back to maybe if you want to say uh 90s bodybuilding, but with uh modern like machines and so on and so forth. So my my question and what we're gonna be discussing is is Charles Glass a genius, uh, which a lot of people believe, or does he over or does he overthink the movement? So uh we're gonna pull up, I'm gonna pull up some videos and uh check out uh what exactly you know he he does. So let me pull up a couple of these videos and then oh, let me see. Hold on. And then I have his there we go. Okay. So so let's see. Let's let's just go to the to the first one. Uh great variation for side delt. Let's see this one. Okay. All right, I'm gonna lower that up. Uh did you see that movement at all? I did. Okay, what did what did you think?

SPEAKER_04 5:33

It's so Charles, you know, um Go ahead. At the at the height of his coaching slash training people, training pro bodybuilder career, um, he was he was ahead of his time, dude. He was a genius.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

What he would do is he would create different angles on these machines. These mean machines are meant to have one motion, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Um, but when you're a bodybuilder and you're in these individual poses, there's no real machine that's gonna emulate that pose. So he would he would get into a back pull-down machine and lean forward and incorporate different angles. So you're coming down and squeezing as if like you're hitting a rear double bicep, as opposed to like what these guys do now, just heavy lap holes, you know, like to the front or to this. Like he had an angle for every pose of your mandatory compulsor compulsory poses that the judges call. And what it did was it created better flow, um, more striations, better fluidity, and it it it it created, it was almost like you're stretching a certain way to perform a certain way, right? And bodybuilders today, just like you said, it just rose and this and that, and none of it is really geared, it's it's geared upon weight training, it's not geared upon bodybuilding posing. And Charles was able to create that. That's why there's physiques, and if you look at the people that were under his tutelage, they all had that refined look because they incorporated exercises like this, and people flew out from all over the country, different parts of the world, just to train with Charles to learn these angles and and help them perfect. And and everybody put everybody's different, so you have to design them specified for their biomechanics. Um, and he was brilliant at it, dude. There was there was nobody better. So now I think that's missing in today's physiques because everybody looks like a bloated weightlifter nowadays. No, no, there's no ref there's no real refinement. And Charles was able to bring this look of refinement that had such a quality look, um, and I just think it's lost, and it's lost a little bit in this time.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

All right, I'm going to push back a little bit. I agree with you, Charles Glass, I think, is an absolute genius. Um, but I think in the last couple of years, we've seen some bodybuilders come out and like I had Eric Wood on. And Eric Wood worked with uh Chris Acido. And if you've seen what he looked this year, I mean he looked absolutely amazing. Uh Andrew Jack, again, I know it's uh it's all Asido's guys, right? Uh uh you don't see them, you don't see Charles, you don't see the guys running to Charles like you used to.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Uh well, I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Antonio Burton is another guy that just you know looks fantastic on stage. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 8:44

Because the physiques are different.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

There's no more. If you look, there's no striations anymore. Not the way there used to be.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:52

You look at a lineup, they they were posting on uh, I don't know if you follow them, like real bodybuilding. They had Paul Dillett, Flex Wheeler, Ronnie Coleman, Lee Priest, Aaron Baker, and Darien Charles all in a like a top six.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:06

It was it was you know fucking phenomenal. But every one of them had that fluidity, like the muscles, right? They were fluid, they would move, there was movement there. Would you say okay, good, good Charles probably isn't in demand anymore because there's no physiques like that anymore. So nobody's rushing to him to compete with the top guys that have fluidity because not many of the top guys have fluidity.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:32

Now there's no fluidity in his physique, dude.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Who's that?

SPEAKER_04 9:37

Derek Lunsford, Mr. Olympiad.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Oh no, I yeah, I agree. That's why I didn't name him. No, I fully, I fully, I fully, yeah, fully agree on with that one. That's why I didn't name him. Now, but what if you go down to classic physique, which is really popular? Do you believe that they look more like 90s? They do. I definitely believe so, yes. But you don't see them running to Charles class anymore either.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

No, but because they're not overly compensated with muscle, like the guys with the heavy muscle, if they would run the Charles right now, they would get more of a detailed, refined look. And uh that's what some of them need to do. Okay, I believe, my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

No, I I I agree with that. I think I think it's I what's funny is it's hard to say the best guy in the world should go to Charles class. It's you know, uh, because it's like, what do you mean? I'm the best, I'm Mr. Olympia. But I think if Derek were to train with him, maybe he you might maybe he might be able to pull out.

SPEAKER_04 10:36

Dude, if any of those, even Samson, if any of those guys could bring, maybe, maybe bring some fluidity and bring those striations, you know, those deep fiber striations, they would blow, they would set a new standard. Now that would be the new level that everybody else in the lineup has to compete with. Um, and it would it would give a different look to to what we're seeing on the top top five panel in most of these most of these pro shows.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Okay. A couple of questions, and then I want to look at some videos and see break down the actual movement of what he's doing and what he's trying to accomplish, right? Yeah. Uh one, did you ever train with him? Because you went out there. You went out there.

SPEAKER_04 11:15

I never I never trained with him. I know Charles. I'd never trained with him one-on-one personally.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

No, I know Guy Susanino did. I know, I know I remember him discussing it. I remember him discussing uh hand hand placement during bicep curls. I remember that specifically. And it was really just a uh a wrist change. And you know, he said before he went to go see Charles, his his when he did a bicep curl, his wrists were kind of curled, you know, inward. He said Charles would correct him and have his wrists have outward, you know, and then a lot of the pressure would be on more so on the bicep. It's it's it's amazing how guys like Charles Glass, and I'm gonna put Meadows, you know, I know he he he died way too young. I'm gonna put him in the same category. It's amazing how they could look at the body and know, oh, this little change would is so significant, right? It's absolutely amazing how they they they c they really are bodybuilding geniuses. It just seems like people are going back to the basics. And the problem is, like you said, if they're winning, and this is what the judges are rewarding, they're not gonna try and it's it's not the standard anymore, right? Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 12:31

But if somebody would come up who wants to really shake things up, comes in with that size, but it comes in with those those deep cuts, deep striations, fluidity, muscle that moves, that looks like it's pliable. Dude, they would they would knock these guys down placings.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Yeah, it's very, very, very, very possible. There's no question about it. Um, oh, that's the other question. Is he best to train with pre-contest when you have to bring those striations and muscle separation out?

SPEAKER_04 13:07

So the the the thing about that is you you you know you build all your muscle in the offseason, but you learn more about your body when you're in when you're in contest prep because you can't really see much when you're holding water, you got a little fat on you. You know, you go by your state shots. What did this what did this look bring? So that that extra detail, I think it's a little more important to do pre-contest, but and I'm talking you know, 16 weeks out. 16 to 20 weeks out, you start incorporating this stuff in, um, you know, based upon different angles of uh body parts that you want to bring up, and and you create these movements. Um but you really notice it when you're dialed in and the body fat's gone and you're not holding as much water, and you know you're closer to a show where you could see everything. That's when that's when you see when all the real work is done.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Right, right, right. No, I uh fully uh fully agree. Now, what's oh, this Sean Roden and there's actually Brandon Curry. Um, some of these videos are a little bit older, obviously. Yeah, but one thing I want to go back, one thing that I did incorporate because I never had great biceps. I um one thing I do incorporate into my bicep routine are drag curls. And I uh specifically got them from Charles Class. And of course, if you put you know the video on Instagram and TikTok, people rip you apart for the you know, you could have the best form in the world, it doesn't matter. But I you know, if I do a drag curl, which is basically this, right? It's um uh right here, right here is a drag curl, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:47

Uh well, you're supposed to pull your elbows back and drag it all the way up your body. I we we we've been doing dude. This was my generation, dude. We did this stuff. Kemper taught me this stuff, dude. Like, but we would drag it almost up. You bring the bar up to your neck where your elbows and that contraction you get on top, dude. Holy shit. Okay, I don't care who they're tearing up on Instagram, let them try it.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

No, I I yeah, absolutely. I agree. Um, even something as simple as this. Uh, he has a client that's doing and he says, um, he basically says, uh, never lock at the top and never rest at the bottom. So all the tension is clearly on the chest. But he also see where his hand placement is, it's not on uh you know the hand grips. Right. Do you uh any particular reason as to why he it's not on the hand grips or so that fits that fits his biomechanics better? Ah, I see what you're saying. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:45

If you're a taller guy with a wider frame, your hands might be on the grips. You know, this is just what you're seeing him do with him.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Ah, okay, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 15:53

This isn't a cookie cutter exercise. You know, none of that's what's that was so great about Charles is none of it was cookie cutter.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 16:01

It was all detailed to your biomechanics.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:04

That's what really separated him.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Oh, here's a good one. Okay, here's actually a really good one. I've never tried this. Here you go. On the Smith machine with a with a close grip.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

It's almost like a French press skull crusher.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

It's almost like what?

SPEAKER_03 16:23

It's like a close grip skull crusher.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Yeah, okay. Now, but is this more so for your chest or triceps?

SPEAKER_04 16:31

It's I mean, you're hitting your triceps, you're gonna use a little bit of the chest.

unknown 16:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

Any type of pushing movement, but it looks like he's working his triceps there.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it really and I honestly the only way is to give it a shot, is to try it.

SPEAKER_04 16:48

Yeah, he's doing triceps.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

But the funny thing is you could squeeze any body part, he could be squeezing his chest.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yeah, I can see that.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

Even with that movement, then it becomes a chest workout.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 17:01

Charles would make you focus. He would touch the body part and make sure I want, I want to feel this contract. Squeeze here, squeeze here. Keeps all your focus on that muscle group, that area. Did you break those cells down? You you know, it's that's that's how proper training is done, dude. It's breaking down a certain way to change, you know, certain looks of your physique. You know, you if you just got bigger, your structure is the same, your proportions are the same. But if you bring if you got to bring up some rear delt, or you gotta bring up some side triceps, right? He would create these angles to hit those areas specifically, not just hit your triceps, but hit the outer part of your triceps.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Right. He would he would look at you and break down your physique and see where you have to grow in order to be a best bodybuilder. Nobody's doing that, and then um, no, you're 100% right. I don't see anybody doing and what's funny is that um, you know, I'm not young, I'm 50 years old, and I've been watching Charles Class, you know, for years. And a lot of times, if I had a troubled body part and my troubled body parts were my shoulders, my biceps, I would take tips from him. And I I've still to this day do side delts like this, like the way he's doing it with his uh hand to the side and pinkies up. Right. I still do that, and it it, you know, like I'm not no great bodybuilder, but I certainly have seen progress in my delts.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Dude, you're looking good, dude. I've seen your videos, dude. You're looking thank you, man. I'm still sexy, man.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

I'm still very sexy. Sexy 50 year old.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

You're putting muscle on, dude. You're you're full muscle bellies, dude. You're looking good.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Thank you, brother. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Yeah, of course. I think I have a bodybuilding podcast. I should look like a bodybuilder, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:45

You gotta look you gotta look apart, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Yeah, exactly. Uh let's see, what else we got? Because he he, I mean, some of these things like you could look at his videos all day long. It's just tremendous stuff. Uh, this is uh three attressa, but uh both long head and medial. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

What are you right there? I can't see that.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

All right. What he's doing is he's doing a skull crusher, really close grip, coming down to his forehead, right? And then he's also doing a uh close grip bench uh uh at the by the top of his by the top of his chest.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

He's concentrating on top end, so he's going not full contraction, which could hurt your wrists. He's going, he's going like almost like uh a little beyond 50% down and then working on the contraction on the way up, squeezing his outer triceps.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 19:37

Where did he say he was working? Did he name the two heads?

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Let's see. Uh I can't see. No, it doesn't say. Um oh wait, yeah, it did. It did, it did. Hold on, hold on. Let me see. Hold on, wait, it did. It says 3D tricep with a superset. So it says uh both long and medial head.

SPEAKER_04 19:56

Yeah, so what he's doing with the with the uh the skull crushers there is he's extending, he's bringing it back, he's stretching the long head, and the contraction on top hits the medial. That's your router.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

I've always did skull crutches where my hands are behind my and the only reason I do it like this is because I just feel better tension that way. Where um I I have my hands behind your head, behind my head, but I don't bring it all the way up. I mean I keep my hands behind my head and extend out behind my head. Yeah. And uh I see a lot, I see a lot of uh tension in the tricep from that.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

Yeah, better stretch, it stretches that long head out. Yeah, it's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Also, another one that I do is dumbbells, uh skull crushes on a decline.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yeah, and that seems to be really uh when it comes to my like I am I'm not I'm not as educated as you. Anytime I'm in the gym, my attitude is if I could feel it, the squeeze, the pump, the the mind muscle connection.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

And I'll change I'll change my style or I'll change my routine or I'll change my range of motion if I just feel it better. Right. Right. So anytime I did I I if I do skull crushes like to my actual to my actual forehead, it just puts a lot of pressure on my sh on my elbows.

SPEAKER_04 21:37

That's exactly my point, is you're those you're catering to your biomechanics.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 21:42

Nobody could tell you that's in proper form. That's what works for you.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Ah, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

And dude, that's what that's what Charles did. So you're you're not you're not doing it the textbook way.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:53

No, you're doing it your way, because that's how it fits your biomechanics. Dude, that's that's what you're supposed to do. That's why I say there's no rules. Every body is different.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Yeah. But also, this is very advanced. If if there are if there are guys or girls that are beginner or you know, uh middle of the road, bodybuilders, I think this is a little bit too yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:15

Let them let them stick to the basics. Let them put the muscle on the we gotta see what you have to work with. Exactly. You can't refine something before it's there. You know, build the foundation, take the time, put the years into the training, you know, build that structure up and then shape it and refine it, you know, to a to a look that you know that could win a championship.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Now, here in this video, he's with Doug Fouchet. Doug worked uh at uh Gold's. He was a bodybuilder. He passed away um what about two years ago now? Yeah, just about. Yeah, he was on he was on the show with us all the time. He was he was a good dude, man. He was. Um, and here he's doing a dip, but the dip is is mostly putting the pressure on his chest, and he's really leaning really forward. Did you ever do them like this? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:06

Okay, I've always done uh the pressure off the triceps and it focuses on the on the lower outer part of the pecs, and it gives you like you can and you could tell he's squeezing, like he's doing those good. He's getting that contraction in there, right? And also builds those lines across your chest.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:24

See, that is great form for him.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, the guy was uh the guy, yeah. I have to agree with you, man. Now the more that I'm looking at it, the guy is an is an absolute genius. There's the smallest and the slightest change for an individual body that he could look at is just and he has he makes tremendous progress. I do remember, I mean, remember Dexter working with him. I remember Sean Roden working with him. Obviously, I know Guy Sistanino worked with him.

SPEAKER_04 23:54

Lex Wheeler, Chris Khmer, Paul Dillett, all all the guys of that era were were out with Charles.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Uh, let's see.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

He he ran Gold's Gym, dude. He he had everybody I think he still works there, right? Yeah, I think so. He had people around the clock, dude. All the best guys.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Yeah, and um, it's unfortunate, but I mean, he's got to be up there in age at this point. He's got probably in his 70s, if I had to guess, but um, he doesn't have uh the clientele he used to. And I think I think you're right. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think you're right. I think if some of these guys would actually go to him, uh maybe they would be more refined on stage and look more refined on stage.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Well, you have to remember also, you know, I don't want to, you know, it it sounds kind of crappy to say he doesn't have the clientele um that he used to have. And you're you're right, he definitely doesn't. But you have to factor in a couple of things. Now, everybody's a coach online.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Oh, God, tell me about it. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Back then, there was nobody, see, nobody's really there's coaches that are there was coaches back then like Chad Nichols and Chris Acido that that have been around. Um, they're doing your contest preps.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:06

But there wasn't individual guys that did your training. You know what I mean? Like, who who else is Charles competing against with training?

SPEAKER_00 25:16

No, you're right.

SPEAKER_04 25:17

There, there's there's just these well-rounded coaches, and there are a dime a dozen.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

That's true.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

They're on every corner, you know, there, and there's they got a laundry list of all the all the all the you know clients they have. You know, Charles, we only see what he puts out there, right? But but I can imagine that he has a shitload of your household, you know, moms and dads that are workouts with him. Like, I'm sure he's I'm sure his business is doing well.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Oh, absolutely. Uh I meant when I meant clientele, I meant the elite guys.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

But you all it's gonna take is a turn because all it takes is one person that listens to this and says, hey, you know what? Let me fucking try that. That might that might make a difference this year. Yeah, and controls brings that guy in and shows that he could tweak your physique that much and and bump you up a couple placings, dude, they'll all be flocking to him. But the problem is nobody has to beat that look right now because it's only in classic physique.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 26:16

There's no really good, refined guys in open.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

You know what? You're you're you're the more we're talking about this, the more I agree with you. Because we see it with regular coaches. We see a we see a top bodybuilder that goes to a coach, and then all of a sudden the other bodybuilders are jumping on the bandwagon. Yeah, except that the coaches that they go to today are mostly for uh diet, supplements, super subs. Um, not so much for in the gym, not at all. Nobody's through workouts. But I you know what? I I I I I you're probably right. If if one of these top guys decided, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna go train with Charles.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

Dorian does it. Who Dorian does it, but he's out in England, you know what I mean? Like Dorian, Dorian trains guys. Okay, they were trying to get Samson to get out there and train with Dorian, like he needed some good hard training, and that's the kind of training that Samson probably needs, you know. Um, but some of these other bigger guys uh, you know, like the Dereks, they could use that refinement. I think I think Charles would go a long way with somebody like Derek.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Yeah, because I don't at this point, I don't think you know he would lose any muscle.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

No, not at all, dude. You know, even if he dropped 15 pounds, he'd look bigger with all those striations.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it depends on the bodybuilder. Um Samson tried that, it didn't work for him.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Well, that's different. You know, Samson's also six foot, and and and he had trouble getting in shape, yeah. So he dyed away a lot of his muscle. I'm not saying that, right? Bring in a little refinement, suck down a little more. Derek could suck down a little more, okay. But again, that refinement, he just looks like a when he sucks down, he just looks like a smaller version of himself, and he loses his legs.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

He does, he does, and I think that's what makes Asido so great, is because Asido knew that and he's like, yeah, and he's like, we don't have to suck down that much, right? But uh because your your conditioning will be good enough to win with the size and shape that he has, even though Derek's a short bodybuilder, he does have good uh and a good X-frame because he has such a small waist, right? You know, um, but yeah, I think the more that we talk about this, I think you're right. I think it could take it could take a turn, and it could take a turn relatively quickly. All you need is a Nick Walker or Andrew Jack or or a Derek to just say, you know what, I'm gonna go to goals in in Venice and and train with Charles and see what what's the worst that can happen. And then they're putting you know the videos with him and Charles on on Instagram, and then before you know it, everybody's because people that but look at it look at it from this point of view also.

SPEAKER_04 29:01

Out of all the top guys that you just mentioned, and you mentioned they're all jumping from one coach to the next, right? Yeah, because they don't like the way they look, but the they only see a problem in their contest prep, in their in their in their diet and and their drugs. That's the only that's the only problem these guys are seeing now. But if any of them said, hey, the problem is with my physique, and they corrected their training, like you could eat good all all you want, but if you're gonna run a you know a 200 yard a 200-meter sprint, you have to train for that 200-meter sprint, right to prepare your body for it, not just not just eat good and hope you do well at the meet. You know what I mean? Yeah, they're not preparing their body through training for a bodybuilding competition, they're just weight training.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yeah, no, I I I fully get it. I I fully understand.

SPEAKER_04 29:54

The problem doesn't always necessarily have to be with the coach. Some of these guys' physiques need a little altercation, need a little alter. You know what I mean? Like they they need to they need to tweak them a little bit. It's not because they're overdieted or underdieted or cut their water too much, or didn't cut their sodium or carved up too little or too much. It's they need to train differently. Like, look at the difference that Dorian looks now. Dorian looks like he's training differently, yeah. Because his body his legs are getting more detailed. Dude, he never when I was talking to him, dude. He had never done lunges before.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Really?

SPEAKER_04 30:29

Never.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:30

I said, dude, you better start incorporating some lunges, dude. It'll bring out more detail in your glute hamstring tie and the separation of your quads. He he has been doing it, but it's look it's getting better.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

He's definitely he his last couple of shows, yeah, he looked good. He really did. He really made a huge difference. I don't know what he's doing differently, but you know what? And um uh a Fugate official actually said, Well, be cool to see Lunsford go and see if they can get that extra detail in the biceps because front double shot. Yeah, you know, but like it at this point it can't hurt.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

Well, dude, no coach is gonna get that for him. It's got to come from his training, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Right, right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 31:08

Detail in your back, you know, sweeping your thighs. No coach is gonna give that to you. You're not training right, you're not training right to build more sweeping your thighs or to get more detail in your biceps, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

So it's not just the contest prep being the diet, nutrition, and drugs, it's the training, too, dude. Yeah, like and you got to put a hundred percent into that, not just go out there and train to failure, but do specific exercises that are gonna alter your physique in ways that'll make you look better on stage.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Yes. No, uh uh, I couldn't agree more. Absolutely. The the more we talk about, I know I sound like a broken record, the more we talk about it, the more I think about it, the more I think you're you're right.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

At the beginning, you just weren't looking at it from the right angle.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

That's no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. At the beginning, I was like, um, maybe maybe Charles Gleis overthinks it a little bit, but now that I'm thinking about it, if it's if it's shaped for every individual bodybuilder, then of course the hand placement and the foot placement and the angle is gonna be different for every different bodybuilder. That just makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 32:21

And not just that, it's it's designed for each bodybuilder because of their biomechanics and because that guy might have needed more outer triceps, right? So in here, you know, if you want to sweep in your thighs, dude, whatever squats, leg presses, hack squats, you're gonna do them with your feet together and your knees in. Otherwise, you're just working your thighs, you're not targeting the outer head for where the sweeps of your thighs are.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Right.

SPEAKER_04 32:45

You you if you do that, they're not gonna look like they're flattening out. Build more muscle in areas. That's how you perfect the look.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

It's not just about, hey, this coach got me leaner this year, but you get the same fucking physique, dude.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 33:01

Okay, you're in a little better shape, so, but nobody's blowing it away with that detail, fluidity, and and that fibrous looking muscle, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Yeah, no, I I agree. I think I think we're gonna see I think we're gonna see a change though. So here's what I mean. I'd say about maybe when I was competing, 2012, 2013, 2014. You saw a lot of guys come out and they had, you know, uh, they called it the bubble gut. You know, they they didn't really care too much for uh you know their what their waist looked like as long as they came in shape.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

And then we saw a change. Uh guys like Arnold was a big proponent of uh getting your waist down. And and now we see these these really big bodybuilders, guys like Nick Walker and uh Samson and their uh you know, Derek, Hottie, uh their wastes are priority. Uh and I think we're gonna see a change where we're gonna go from guys that are just massive with a lot of with good detail to massive with great detail. And if and it could happen within the next 10 years or so. Because every time you see it the next generation, it's a little bit different, it's a little bit different. And I think you're right. I think if I think it it and what's old becomes new, right? Right, like everything comes full circle, right? So his style could definitely come back and have these bodybuilders really concentrate on uh the striations, uh the the conditioning, building their weak body parts up. If you look at the game Excuse me, sorry, bless you.

SPEAKER_04 34:56

If you're looking at if you're a competitor and you're looking at the game, the sport of bodybuilding, right? And the prep and everything it entails and everything it stands for, you would see that obviously it's all physique, right? It's all physique. Then you incorporate your diet, conditioning, drugs, this and that, blah, blah, blah, into detail to put you on stage. So, how do you get better, right? So you look at the mistakes you made, you look, you look at the flaws in your physique. How do you balance this out? How do you create better symmetry so this flows, and you start circling areas on your body? The the the the drop in my triceps, which is the long head. So you incorporate extra exercises that target that area, stuff that's overhead, stuff where your triceps are in a stretch position, you know, like you specifically gear your training towards obtaining that goal. At our outer head of your quad, outer sweep your quads, rear belts, more upper chest. So you would do more incline stuff. You do more incline work, you know, work work on some with some cables, getting some deep squeezes and feeling and separation and stretching and pliability and stretch that muscle out, get it broken down, break up the scar tissue, like you know, get get that neuromuscular massage done to where you know it brings in a little fluidity and loosens some of that.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

That's actually a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 36:14

The muscles nowadays they don't look like they look like they don't move. You know what I mean? Like they don't move, and um, it looks like they're all just pumped up. So bring some of that back, gear your training and your contest prep into that. You're looking at one big detail of the of a game plan that could that could make such a difference in their prize money and their placing.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Yeah, I I I couldn't agree more 100%. Um, you brought me to the light, Jason Owens. Sometimes I get sucked, uh, sometimes I get sucked into um, well, you know, he's the best in the world, or they're the top five, or they're the top six, or they're the top ten. But what really happens is a lot of times it is just people doing the same thing, jumping on the bandwagon, and just because they're the best doesn't mean they're not incorporating the same kind of system, right? Um, and you're right, it's just it takes just one guy to uh to change that. Yeah. Or uh the people and judges complain and the standard changes.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

I think we talked about this last time. Like the judges, they only have what they have to work with. You know what I mean? If there was a better guy that looked like that, dude, he'd be up in there.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Right, right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

But it's store, all that started, you know, when these guys started getting bigger and bigger, you know, it started some of those guys, it just faded up, and their look, their looks changed. Oh, I was too ripped, I gotta be more, I gotta be fuller, I gotta be fuller. You know, I sucked down too much. When the reality is that sucked down look, that's what gave you the striations, that's what showed more detail. But they were competing against guys that were bigger, so it just changed the platform. So now the new look is to be big and and just hard. Yeah, muscles don't move, hit your hit your biceps look the same, whether they're hanging down or they're up in the air.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

You know, like it's you know I'm still very much impressed, even though you're I agree with you. I'm still very much impressed with today's bodybuilders, the hottie, especially uh the hotties, uh Samson, Andrew, Tony, Tony impresses the hell. Yeah, he looks good. Yeah, Tonyo Burton just, I mean, honestly, all he needs is a little bit of more muscle, five or ten pounds, and he's in the top three. I mean, he is just phenomenal. But with him, I think it's just god given. Uh, if I'm if I'm I I just think his physique is just basically god-given, the way his muscles lay in his body and how everything is just so proportioned and so symmetrical. Um, and then there are guys where you know you look at and you say, you know, man, what what is going on here? It's just doesn't it doesn't seem to make any sense. Like, for example, let's take uh let's take blessing, for example, right? Um he always has a hard time with his legs comparing to his upper body, his upper body is so massive. And if he if he brings in his legs and they're separated, it doesn't look as bad. But if he doesn't, it throws them completely off. But whether he brings them in separated or not, if somebody else in that show has a better package, he's going to lose. So what would you what do you tell somebody at that level what that he needs to do to bring up those quads and to create muscle separation in those quads? It's very difficult to speak to a guy, an elite bodybuilder, and say, you know, you need to change when his formula brought him so far.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

So there's guys that have accountability and there's guys that stay still.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 40:02

When you have accountability, you can make progress, you could admit, hey, this isn't good, that isn't good, hey, I did this wrong, I did that wrong. When you when you when you're open to accountability, dude, the fucking sky's the limit. If he's seriously looking at his progress pictures from show to show and doesn't realize he needs to bring his legs up, then there's something wrong with him.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Right. Now we don't know, it's just speculating. I'm just using him as an example.

SPEAKER_04 40:30

We're using this as an example. I don't know him, right? But I I believe of course he knows his legs, you know, need but he needs to go out and spend some time with Charles Glay. You know, but with him, it might be more of a Dorian style training thing where he needs to he needs to rock those fuckers, right? I mean, dude, everybody has their genetics. Johnny Jackson, probably the strongest legs in the world, dude. He had no thigh sweeps, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:58

But not his best body part, and he knows this.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:01

It always held him back. Hamstrings, calves, you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

And it wasn't like he didn't train them hard, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Oh, he certainly did.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

They just yeah, they just wouldn't grow.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Yeah, and there's also that, too. There's also the stubbornness of the muscle.

SPEAKER_04 41:16

That's what I'm saying. By now, if he doesn't know his legs are are are are smaller than his upper body, then he's nuts. Of course he knows this, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Right.

SPEAKER_04 41:24

Um, but it's either one of two things. Either he busts his ass and they don't grow, or he's not training him right.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Right.

SPEAKER_04 41:33

Yeah, I don't know which one it could be.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

No, absolutely. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. All right, Jay, I appreciate you coming on, man. And uh remember everybody, I prevail subs. Link is in the link is in the description. The discount code is SNS10. It is there. So, Jay, thank you very much for another great episode of Anabolic Academy. And what is that? Fucking it's I didn't even see that hat. That's great. My wife got it for me for uh that's a great fucking that's a great hat. Yeah, all right, man. I'll talk to you soon. I'll text you tomorrow.

SPEAKER_04 42:07

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Be safe. You got it later.