Anabolic Academy with John Livia, Jason Arntz, and special guest Paul Barnett

Science guys Vs bodybuilders. Who wins? Who loses?
#johnlivia  #jasonarntz #paulbarnett #seriousandsillinessbodybuilding 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Gentlemen.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Yo.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

We are live. What's up?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

How you doing? Hey, Paul, how you doing? What's up? Can you see me all right?

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Can you Yeah, loud and clear. And and visually perfect. Uh Paul, I heard from a little birdie that uh your dog is sick. Something's up with your dog?

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Yeah, he seems to be better now. He was in the Jesus Christ, like 10 grand later after being in the emergency vet for four days. Oh, Jesus Christ. Some some some virus or something. They couldn't figure it out, man. But he was pooping and puking blood. It's kind of scary. How old is he? He's just a he just turned three, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah, you gotta you gotta do what you gotta do when they're three years old. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Yeah, my daughter was pretty upset. She stayed at the stayed at the uh vet with him, and I was, you know, we took turns staying at the vet. So all right.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Well, I'm glad she's doing doing better. And Arns is uh feeling better. Good man.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Had a good few days, dude. Last week was brutal. Just don't ever get cancer, guys. If you try try to avoid getting cancer at all costs because it's not as fun as they make it sound.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

I had it not like to the degree that you did, but I I had to have I had a melanoma, and then it got into some lymph nodes, and I had to have all those removed and um treatment and whatnot for that. I had to have a solivary gland removed, a bunch of stuff about 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

All good since?

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Yeah, yeah. I'm still here, man. I'm still abusing steroids and living my life.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Do you think uh do you think the other cancers look at thyroid cancer and like uh they're disgraced by the thyroid cancers like, dude, you shouldn't even be cancer, like you don't even need chemo.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Thyroid cancer is no joke.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Uh null, you know, you don't need chemo, they just remove it. It's you're not even life-threatening. Like the other cancers probably laugh at thyroid cancer and be like, please.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Well, the the thing is, if it's thyroid cancer where it's just thyroid cancer and doesn't spread, or doesn't get into anything else, then you know it's it's a I was kidding. Yeah, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

I mean, there's there's certainly degrees. I what I've what were you diagnosed with?

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Uh multiple myeloma.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Yeah, my yeah, my man, we went through that. My um that's what my father-in-law passed away from.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Thanks, Amy. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Multiple myeloma was tough.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Um, and how long ago was that?

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Decade ago. The treatments are a lot better now.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Oh, they're much better now. I mean, it's almost it's almost curable, like to the point where probably within four years they'll have a cure for it.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

Yeah, he he had a pretty rough go of it. It got into his bones and stuff, and then like all his bones.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yeah, I still have broken ribs and I have fractures. I had fractures in my yeah, thoracic spine, had to get cemented. You know, uh, I'm still dealing with that.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

Man, yeah, yeah, I didn't realize that that, yeah. So, yeah, I so that's that was uh something we experienced in my family. It's a tough, tough go. Well, sending my thoughts and prayers to you, man.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Thank you, thank you, Paul. Yeah, well, well, he's still here, so it's yeah, it's a pain in the ears.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

I'm not, I'm I'm I'm doing good this week. I still have that final stretch, which is gonna be rough, where I go in for the stem cell transplant, and that just knocks you out, dude. That's they reset your whole immune system, and I gotta quarantine for a hundred days. I'm not allowed near anybody for a hundred days. So I gotta try to enjoy the next few weeks.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

You think there's a part of your wife that's like, thank god, I don't have to fucking see this guy for a hundred days. No, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

She's been by my side every day.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

I know I'm only but I'm only busting your cajonis. One more question, and we'll we will get into it. So, how was Muscle Beach? How was the show there Saturday? Saturday, and I couldn't get to. I'm sorry about that.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yeah, no, you were missed, but uh I was I was knock on wood, dude. It was a great turnout. Um really good amount of competitors, but you know, the vendors were great, and the audience we uh filled didn't sell out, but almost sold out pre-judging and almost sold out the night show. And the school was great, the venue were back at you know, uh the performing arts center at Titon Falls, Mountmouth Regional. Yeah, yeah, and we did everything. They put air conditioning in the hallways. Um, backstage area was great. So it was one of my best years ever.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Oh, good, good, good. Glad to hear it. Glad to hear it. All right, well, so I didn't know what I was gonna what we were gonna talk about this uh this week. I'm always looking for topics, and then I saw a rant that Paul did on Instagram, and I went fucking perfect. So the uh the rant was science guys versus uh IFBB pros. So why don't uh Paul, why don't you like basically give us the you know uh the cliff notes versions of what you were trying to say on your rant?

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Yeah, I don't know if you've been following any of this stuff. There's been a lot of drama on social media over the last uh week or two with Lyle McDonald and some other people, and and and basically there's a there's a I and I'm look, I'm I'm a science guy, I enjoy science, but like fucking common sense is just going out the goddamn window anymore, man. Just completely gone out the window, and the thing that drives me fucking nuts, man, is that we we've got a pretty solid history of professional bodybuilding, 60 years of it, thousands of IFB pros, and they all pretty much do it the same way, right? And then there's all these people that are out there overthinking shit and trying to outsmart what works. But the latest thing that that is just I I just laugh my ass off when people are saying this is that you don't need to eat in a caloric surplus to grow muscle.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

What?

SPEAKER_03 6:34

Yeah, like that's the latest thing that that's that's uh you don't need to get good. I'm sorry, you don't do you don't have to eat in a caloric surplus to grow muscle. Like, where the fuck did this come from?

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Okay, yeah, so let the best thing you do is just let them keep doing what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

I mean, but but but I mean here's what I don't understand. Okay, you can have all your research studies that you want, but it's it's like the difference between being an electrical engineer and an electrician, right? So, like, hear me out, right? The electrical engineer can give you the formula, but he can't put the lights on. Yeah, he doesn't know how to install a circuit breaker panel, he has no clue, he just knows the formula, and he wants to tell you how to do it, even though he's never held a pair of pliers in his life. And I feel like that's what's happening. It's like you get all these guys that maybe um, you know, research a lot, uh, but they've never stepped on stage and they never tried to actually bodybuild. And then you have, you know, generation after generation after generation of bodybuilders that had no choice but to eat a lot in order to put muscle on. It's like I don't know any bodybuilder who could that didn't eat that didn't have to eat more to put muscle on, even the grates had to like you know increase their calories and increase their protein and decrease their fats and so on and so forth in order to put muscle on. So I don't understand where this comes from. The proof is in the pudding.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Well, yeah, I mean to even break it down, you know, muscle requires a certain amount of caloric energy to function, right? To train uh for for basic movement, um, basic metabolic function, right? So if you're trying to grow that muscle, you have to feed it more and put it into a surplus of what's you want a bigger muscle, that bigger muscle is gonna require even more of a calorie surplus. So the first thing we're taught, you know, or the first thing we learn is you want to get bigger, you got to eat more. There's there's no other way to break it down. And to be honest, like when you hear shit like that, you're like, are they just saying this for clicks? Or to create some kind of controversy to get some follows and likes, and because you're you're right, Paul. Common sense is nowhere to be fucking found anymore. It's like out the window, and it's like the the newest, you know, um shit model of whatever they're they're they're speaking of that day is is the new the new science technology on how to put a muscle, and it's always taught by a 150-pound guy.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Yeah, always every fucking time. I think the thing that really like like drives me, and like I'm a science guy, I read I you know, you you you know me, John. I sit around and read research papers and and look for stuff and wait ways to improve what we're doing, but uh like the thing that drives me absolutely nuts is they'll point to a study done on a cohort of 11 grad students who did leg extensions for eight weeks and put on 0.2 millimeters of size on their leg versus 0.1 and say that well, that's definitive proof that this is that you can grow muscle under this set of circumstances, but then they completely disregard 50, 60 years of professional bodybuilding and call it bro science, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 10:05

Right, right. I'm like to me, all the common sense has gone out the fucking way. It's and look, look, like the the calorie thing, whatever. Like, like I get in theory that growing muscle is not a an energy intensive process, which is what they what they're saying, and that it doesn't require a lot of calories to grow. But do you guys know of one fucking open class pro that didn't push food at some point?

SPEAKER_00 10:28

I I can't know. Well, they all had to, some more than others, not a single one wrong, right? But they all had to they all had to. I mean, that that you know, I it it just look, even if they wanted to drop down to 212 or classic, they just take food away. It's it it works the opposite way, too. I don't understand, you know what I mean? It doesn't, it baffles me. You know, when Derek tried when Derek won the 212 Olympia, I mean he was basically saying all he was eating was tilapia and uh string beans, and he was dying, and he would be licking the the plate because he couldn't have any anything else to eat. So it it it baffles me. Now, Paul, who's this Ronald McDonald guy you brought up?

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Oh, he's been around forever, man. He's um he's the one uh arguing on the side of bodybuilding. So I mean, he he he's um you know, he's Lyle McDonald, you mean? Yeah, Lyle's been around forever. I mean, I uh people love him or hate him, people some people hate him, some people love him, but Lyle's been around forever. And and Lyle's the one saying that these science people that actually the science says you do need eating a cloric surplus to grow muscle in the chest. Oh, I thought we were shitting.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

No, no, no, no, he's he's but yeah, it's funny because I put I posted a thing up in you you're you're right, Arns. Every every single person who was arguing with me was 165 pounds. Yeah, it it it it it it just blows me away. Like I'm like telling me I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

No, you don't know anything. They know more.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

I'm like, bro, bro, you you like you you don't even you don't even have you don't even have hair on your testicles yet.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

What do you think to make to simplify it even better, right? To simplify it even better, and I don't I don't know about you, Paul, you know, and or your appetite, but I used to hate eating that much food. Yeah, if there was a better way to do it, if I could do it with less food, believe me, I would fucking do it in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

The food is dread my next and you still have and you and you gotta do another, yeah. And you the food is up to here, yeah, and you gotta eat your next meal, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

But dude, if I didn't eat it, I'd lose a pound and a half, you know what I mean? Like my metabolism's burning, so it's like if you don't maintain that, dude, your your weight's gonna fucking drop. And believe me, there were thousands of times I wish I could skip that on meals, but there's no easier way to do it.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

I would much rather contest prep than do an off-season.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yeah, did you guys ever hear of Palumbo and the shakes that he used to make? Yeah, which one is all right? So uh Dave Palumbo, when I I interviewed him when I first started the channel, and um I was always he used to was famous about these shakes that he used to make, so I had him explain it. So he used to make these shakes where he used to take a dozen whole eggs, and first he used to put them in the microwave, yeah. Um, because he was afraid of salmonella poisoning. And then back then when he was bodybuilding, the only protein was metrics, if you remember that. Yeah, so he used to put a packet of metrics, he used to put 12 um half boiled, half microwave eggs in. He used to put uh he used to put um uh a cup of oatmeal, uh, he used to put uh bananas, and he used to put um if he had whey protein, he'd put whey protein in it, and um, and then you know, obviously with with uh water, and then he would mix it. And it was the old school glass, you know, the old school glass blenders that like grandma had, and it would fill all the way to the top, right? And it fit fill all the way to the top, and he used to sit over the sink and and drink it and drink it and drink it and drink it, and then he would have to stay there for a minute and hopefully not throw up. And then if he said that if he threw up, he would make it again and do it all over again. Yeah, I remember him saying that. And then and then that was just one meal, and then he would do the the double cheeseburgers for McDonald's. He would always have at least one or two McDonald's stuff, and um that he would, and then um he he said that he would uh he wouldn't go to bed till like two o'clock in the morning, and he would go to a diner at at midnight, and he would have like um uh like chopped grilled, it was what is it, um sirloin steak, you know, chop steak chop steak, yeah, with uh you know baked potato and so on and so forth. And uh because he would sleep till like you know 10 or 11, and then he would train people or whatever, and that was it. He would just continuously eat and eat and eat and eat all day long. Um, and he said he looked at eating as a like a job. That was it, it was it was just a job for him, and he wanted to be a pro-bodybuilder, he was trying to anyway, and that's what it took for him.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

Um I mean, all right, you tell me, man. Everybody that gets up on the pro stage, they eventually figure out that the food is is is the big difference between the guys that are amateurs and not.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Yeah, I mean, look at Hunter Labrata, you know, he even said it because he thought, Hey, I could have six shakes a day and get away with this, until he couldn't anymore. Yeah, and he started having to implement real food because you know, just the consistency of real food compared to shakes all the time, that is a tremendous difference. Imagine not eating at all or having half the meals you're supposed to have. So when you could really knock down um the the the nutritional part of it for you, right? And try and make it as easy on yourself as possible. Because, dude, it's fucking painful getting all those meals in. Um, and and when if you could simplify it for yourself the best you can, then you're you're a couple steps steps ahead of everybody else because there's no way to shortcut that. There's no there's no shortcutting around getting that food in.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Now, I know I know for most professional bodybuilders, they don't have a problem putting, you know, uh gaining body fat, right? But let's say you're one of these kids that kind of like or young guy or whatever the case may be that's like uh skinny fat, if you will, you know, and you want to put size on, but you gain fat easily, you know. You got chub, but you get chub. How do you gauge that now? Because the more calories, the more food to put on, um, you know, and they don't want to gain body fat at the same time or as little as possible. Or how would you approach that?

SPEAKER_03 16:58

I I watch the pictures, man. Like I just assess the pitchers. I I I found you kind of got to figure out what works for some for some people. Like, I don't run the same diet with every people. There's some people that do better with higher carbs. Um, there's some I I tend to do better with higher carbs. I don't get fat. I can just eat unlimited amount of carbs and not get fat. It's when I start get pushing my fats up, I get fat. But then there are other dudes that do better with more of a keto style of diet that that tend to tend to yeah, yeah. And it just really depends on the person. So, really, like you got to look at it, carbohydrates and fats both for the most part are just energy, and you kind of kind of pick what your energy source is and what works better for you. There's now there's you know, they talk about science where science comes in, we can actually do genetic testing now to see which which works better for for certain people. Some people, so it's a smaller percentage of people that do better with higher fat diets, it's like one in 10 or something. I don't remember the exact number, but we used to just kind of figure that out on our own. But at the end of the day, you look at those as just energy, proteins are non-negotiable, and and then you play around with the macros to figure out what works for the person. But what I found is if you want to maintain good body composition, you have to pick one or the other. You can't do high fats and high protein or high fats and high carbs at the same time. That usually makes you fat. You think about like donuts, pizza, um, because if you're eating carbohydrates, your body's likely just going to store that excess fat as body fat. If you if you're if you're eating low carbs, your body's gonna be forced to use that that fat for fuel. Uh, so I mean, you know, and and the way I look at it, like to me, like I don't even really even get into the whole counting calorie game anymore. I I'm more focused on on macros. The macros probably matter more where the food foods come. I mean, you can you can do an ex a test on it on yourself. You can eat 3,000 calories from donuts versus 3,000 calories from chicken and and rice and and almonds, and you tell me which you're gonna have a better body composition, right? Same amount of calories, you're gonna look a lot different eating the chicken and rice, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Your body can't metabolize two energy sources at the same time. So if you're having carbs and you're having fats, one of them's gonna get utilized for energy, the other one's gonna get stored, right? If you're having one at a time, your body's gonna utilize that in that one setting. That's why I was always better off with a lower carbohydrate diet.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Yeah, a lot of guys are.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Yeah, so I'd have my my carbs, my first three or four meals, and my fifth and sixth, I would cut over to I would switch over to the the fats, you know, healthier fats, and incorporate that them in. This way, you're getting energy, you're sparing uh glycogen from from being utilized, you're storing glycogen, and uh you're getting a protein content in also. So that was always a good formula for me.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

What fats would you take in as your good fat?

SPEAKER_01 19:49

I like peanut butter, I did uh you know, olive oil, extra virgin olive oil, macadamia nut oil, cashews, stuff like that. But I couldn't, don't get me wrong, I couldn't egg yolks, um, a lot of red meat, but I I couldn't go super high with fats, but there's still a fine line there, also. You know, your body's only gonna handle so much fat at once. So once you learn what your what your resting, you know, fat intake should be, where all right, this is what I'm burning throughout the day with training and cardio, etc., your normal work activity, this is what is required to maintain that. Anything over is all right, now you're pushing the fats a little bit, you're gonna get some storage.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Okay. So, Paul, remember when I was on your show and the topic of the halitestin came up? Um, who is the gentleman that was saying that it was it was not hard on the liver? Not on your show.

SPEAKER_03 20:45

Oh, there's um God, this name his name escapes me. Um there's a there's a dude out there. Fuck, I can't remember his name. There, there is a guy out there, another another influencer that's saying ridiculous shit to get attention. But you said that he actually pointed to a study. Yeah, there was a study, it was like a very small study done.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

You can find a study for anything, dude. You can find a study.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

It it is 17 alpha alkylate, and of course it's it's liver toxic. Your body's going to have to cleave the hormone in order in order to like there's just no way it's not liver toxic. Right. Um but why did he focus on halotestin?

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Uh because because I mean basically, you know, D Balls, Anadrol, Tyrannol, they're all also liver toxic.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

Somebody in somebody in the comment section can remind me of his name. I I hate I hate to um I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but I hate to. I hate to slam the guy, but uh, but you know, it's just there there is a this another group of people. There's a group of people out there that have come up with this idea that you can run short oral only cycles, like four to six weeks. Oral cycles and come off, and you only have to run these a couple times a year to gain mass. Now you go back to bodybuilding. Nobody in professional bodybuilding is doing that. Not a single fucking person. It doesn't work. This this is this is this is another one of those ridiculous ideas. I think people just like like you guys were saying, I think people just say this crazy shit. Either they believe truly believe it, which is terrifying, or they just say it to get attention.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Well, I think there's another part to it, too. I think they believe something, and they and science is supposed to, and Paul, you you tell me if I'm wrong because you're the science dude. Science is supposed to be that you have a theory or have a hypothesis, and then you do the research on it, and then you see if it's true or not, and then the outcome is supposed to be okay, that changes your mind. I think there's a lot of people that believe something, and they search for that one or two studies that actually agree with him. Meanwhile, the 90% of other studies don't agree with him whatsoever. I think there's a part of people, not just in bodybuilding, in general, uh, that that do these things. That follows confirmation bias.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

I was just gonna say that it is a term for confirmation bias, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yeah, that's right. That's right, it's huge in sociology and sociology. There's a huge, it's like social sociological uh studies have like a 60 or 70 percent confirmation bias.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Yeah, you could find a study that suggests anything, right? Anything, and what but what's even funnier is if you look at these studies, you have to look at what conditions the studies are performed under, who who were who who's a control group, what are they subjected to? Because you could basically say anything and and and and create a study to suggest that it works a certain way. And if if you have a guy that never lifted a weight in his life and took halotestin and oral or whatever orals for four weeks and put on three or four pounds of muscle, based upon that, not giving you his background that he's never he's never eaten protein before, never touched a weight in his life, but he gained 20 pounds. Oh my god, this is the greatest drug in the world.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

When in when in reality, when you when you apply the drug to a normal type of circumstance, it doesn't have that effect.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Okay, all right. So, anyway, this guy, this particular person was saying that it was not toxic to the liver, which was it was which was an absolute joke. It just it just that just blew me away that somebody actually was trying to say that. And you know, the reason why, uh, especially on Anabolic Academy, I have guys like Jay, Paul, uh, Armand comes on from time to time, is that because I know I don't know everything, and I don't want to be the person spewing nonsense or wrong information. To me, as as a YouTuber or podcaster, that's irresponsible to give people inaccurate information, and that's why I literally go out of my way to try to get guys like you two on, especially on this show, so that we can give accurate information if it's something that's beyond, especially something that's beyond me, right? And I I think everybody has it, but then you have these influencers that just say that. I mean, uh Jay, who was the guy that was just eating raw meat and he was getting the same, he was he was buying from the same supplement company as you.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Remember the guy what was his name?

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Liverking, liver king, right? Like that psycho, right? And it just blew up, and he had people just eating raw liver, and then it turned out that he was on a clinic and going to GH and testosterone and so on, so liver testicles and all that other shit, yeah, yeah. Remember that? I mean, obviously, he you know, um, and at his peak, he was making a fortune, right? I mean, uh, he was buying from the same sources as as you, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:56

He uh used the same uh uh manufacturer, contract manufacturer that I that I used at the time. Um, and uh he would sell all on Amazon, and then you know it wasn't it.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Didn't you say that the manufacturer was saying that on Amazon alone he was making like a million dollars a month or something?

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Oh, they said he was killing it. He was he was killing it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

It was insane until and and and and the sad part is people are susceptible to this. People really believe this shit. That if you just eat raw animal liver, yeah, and and it it blows me away that people are that um naive. Paul, you have any um any actual experience with stuff like that, with people like that?

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Yeah, people love shortcuts, they love they love something that sounds you know, like, and I think where that's where a lot of this stuff comes from, like like like you think about it. Like, damn, if I can just do a six-week cycle and not have to eat any food, and I can I can do some sort of you know, stupid thing where I can eat eat ribeyes, you know, two ribeyes a day, and I can grow. Yeah, that sounds great, man. Right, right. So it's it's like people, it's the same thing with with the with the workout programs. Like people like like you, you know, like if you're gonna make progress, you gotta train fucking hard, man. You gotta go at it. Yeah, you the the the guys that are in the gym not training hard, you see them, they look the same, they never change.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Never uh oh yeah, absolutely never change.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

This people don't like to hear the truth, they don't like to hear the hard stuff is what works. Yes, weighing and measuring six meals a day ain't fucking fun, man. Uh going to the gym and breaking your balls and puking in a trash can afterwards, you know, four or five days, six days a week, or whatever you whatever you lift and doing it progressively and getting it sometimes. Getting up at 6 a.m. to do your faster cardio ain't fucking fun, man. Right. You know, but this is the stuff that you you got to do if you want to win. And people, it's the same reason why get rich quick schemes, right? Yes, great point. I mean, people people want the results, but they don't want to put in the work. That sells, yeah. It's really that simple to me, and and and it's a shame because there are those of us out there that are trying to tell people the right way to do things, not saying that I know everything, but really, I think the message is is like like don't overcomplicate it. It's just like it's just like business, you know. I've run businesses for years, and people want a shortcut for making money. And I and the God's honest truth, when you run a business, the first couple years suck. But Jane doesn't make any more than that, yeah. You don't make any money, you work your balls off. You put in 12-hour days, there are no vacations, there are there is no time off, you you work long ass days, you don't make any fucking money, and then maybe like in year three, you start making some money, right? And then it and then it kind of snowballs after that. But I you know, I've I don't know, I've run five businesses at this point and bankrupted one, sold a couple. Um you know, and it's it's just like that, too. It's it's not it's not easy, it's hard fucking work. Anything that's worthwhile, and that's not like the old man here, but anything that that was the god's honest truth. Anything that's worthwhile is hard work. You don't get it. I mean, there are some people that get by on talent and luck. That just happens. And you know, they're you know, if you're if you're seven feet tall, you don't have to work that hard to be good at basketball, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

Right, you know, but but it uh if you inherited money from your dad, you don't have to work that hard to be rich. But that that that's not you. That's that's like that's a one in a million, right? So don't even don't even bother wasting your time. Those are the outliers, right? Focus them on people.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Thinking they're gonna pass on some shortcut, and that's that's and that's a great get rich quick scheme for somebody who's already rich. Great point, like yeah, and and and the followers don't get it, they don't get it, and it doesn't work, and you know what? I'll find another get rich quick program, or I'll find another thing to you know, and and the it's like people that play the lottery every week, dude. It's like chances are dude, you gotta go out and work, you know, it's it just ain't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Well, they well, they take the same diet and change the name, rebrand it, but it's the same fucking thing, right? Like uh keto, Atkins, Caveman. I mean, how many times are we gonna rebrand fucking no called diets?

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Call call cult diet. I just call it a cult diet, or or or or really, really the diet that works is a balanced one. That's the best one. But that's also necessary.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

That's all I say is a well-balanced diet, dude. I what can well maybe you could help me on this? Do you please do you do you use the term uh reverse diet?

SPEAKER_03 30:58

No, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Okay, what the fuck is a reverse diet? I never even heard of that.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

I've tried to re feed, but I never heard of that. That's that's another one that drives me nuts, too. Man, is the reverse diet.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Oh my god, dude.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

There's this notion.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

So you're not dieting?

SPEAKER_03 31:14

There's this notion when you come out of a show that you just slowly increase your calories and yada yada. I get the idea.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

So that's your new diet. You're on an increased calorie diet.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Yeah, you're you're increased.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

And they literally refer to reverse diet. They call it reverse diet. Man, this is fucking well.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

That's what cells do, it's got a cool name to it.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

I can I can get on a rant on that one too, because like I just like when I'm done with the show, I go back into a caloric, I go back into my off-season diet. I just don't, I just I want to grow, man. Like, I'm not sitting here fucking around and wasting eight weeks, um, you know, still kind of dieting, but not dieting, and then but most people just end up binge eating anyway. They they because they're they're so hungry, they just end up eating pizza and ice cream anyhow. So you might as well just be eating chicken and rice at that point and growing some muscle.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

I it's just it's just it's just and and I've noticed that when people throw these new terms around, and um they they just kind of want to seem smarter on what they are, you know, and and it it it it's it's kind of the same kind of thing. You know, when I was young, they called it, and I know there's different variations, but they called the stiff-legged deadlifts. Now everybody calls it an RDL. And the first time I heard the term RDL, I'm like, what the fuck is an RDL? And then they you see the motion, I'm like, that's a stiff-legged deadlift. Like, what what what are we, you know, you know, visceral fat. I got it. It's it's you got a fat stomach. That what are we why are we? I don't, you know, it's a a refeed, it's a fucking cheap meal. Why, why are we fucking, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Well, there, you know, look, there's here here's the thing there there is some nuance to some of the stuff. Um, and I and I think this is the big thing where people fuck up. And look, I I like getting into the nitty-gritty and focusing on the nuance, but like most people that that five percent doesn't fucking matter unless you got the 95 buttoned up, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

Doesn't matter if you aren't showing up to the gym and you're not working hard, if you're not weighing and measuring your food and eating the same same food um every every day, if you're not you know track sleeping, tracking and logging everything, you know, all the all the bread and butter shit, the your reverse diet or the osmolarity of your ins or workout shake doesn't make fuck all. It's it doesn't matter. It's not gonna make any any difference whatsoever. Wear wearing wearing squat shoes or not wearing squat shoes or or barefoot or whatever the fuck you're doing here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you you gotta sound like I just I hate sounding like the grumpy old man, but I'm like, just do the basics, man. Really, really, it starts with this first just fucking work hard, just work hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like there the guys that are the best bodybuilders, the dudes that I see that that make the most progress are just really good at doing the boring shit. Yeah, boring simple stuff over and over and over.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

They bake the donuts every day. That's it, and they don't get tired of it, and they know that's what this is what it this is what it takes.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

Like, do you think Ronnie Coleman was thinking about reverse diets and cosmolarity of his introvert? Exactly. Dude didn't even know what the fuck he was taking when they were interviewing him. Yeah, yeah, like he had no idea. He's just like, I was taking three CC's of this and two CC's of that, and and he hadn't he had no idea. Yeah, and he just did whatever Chad told him to do.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

That's right. I was gonna say Chad Nichols took care of all that, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Yeah, right. Yeah, and and you know, Chad told him what to do, and he did it. He just he just did the work.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

All right, one last one last question. Do you guys ever have this happen? Like whether you're with around family or friends, and you're maybe you know at a dinner party or you're at a barbecue or whatever, and somebody is talking about losing weight and they're overweight, or maybe they lost 10 or 15 pounds, so they're like really happy, so they're talking about losing weight, but they won't ask you. They don't want to ask like the professional bodybuilder or the guy who does it for a living, yeah, or the guy who's passionate about it. They don't ask you, they're talking to everybody else, but they don't talk to you about it. They don't ask you. Does that happen to you? Because that happens to me all the fucking time.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

It don't it only happens, and it happens to me, it does, and I don't want to say it on the on the podcast here, but one person in particular, um, and he's overweight, you know. He's he's he's severely overweight. He will he will talk and get advice from everybody else and their mother before he asks me for a single single referral or sing. He he got a diet from a doctor once. He was doing an HCG diet. Remember that old HCG diet? Oh, god, yeah, where you you know it's 500 calories a day, yeah, yeah. Um, but it's it's pride, it's it's pride and it's ego, and it's you know, either I'm not gonna let you think you're better than me by me having to ask you for advice. I mean, I I think that's what it is. I'm not sure. Yeah, because if I had anybody in a room that could offer me something that that dude, I would jump all over it. Yeah, you know, on any level.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

Yeah, it's unbelievable. Paul, does that ever happen to you?

SPEAKER_03 36:43

I don't know, man. I get so overwhelmed with coaching clients, I just wish people wouldn't ask me.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

But I mean, if like you're at like you know, at a party with non-bodybuilders, just people that kind of want to lose weight and get in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

I just kind of sit back and laugh and listen to them talk about the crazy shit. Like they're they're talking about they I think it's I think some of it's they're just scared, scared to ask the big meathead, and they also like I and I I I did a thing about this the other week. Like people people, it's funny because people assume that we have nothing to contribute to somebody who's who just wants to get in shape, right? It's literally the same principles. The the the diet, the training, the cardio, the hormone optimization are the same principles that apply to everybody, it's just a scaled-down version of it. I mean, who who who better to ask about losing body fat than a fucking bodybuilder? We mastered that shit, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

I think also some people like like you said, they've just lost 15 pounds and they did it in some you know pseudo half-ass way where they can enjoy their yogurts and they can enjoy their ice cream or their smaller calories or whatever it is. I think when they ask somebody like us, um they're afraid to hear, look, cut the shit, it's just hard work, right? They're content with all right, I could have a cheeseburger, you know, once a day if it fits in my calorie structure, you know. I could have this because it's an easier way to do it. And will it work for them? Of course it will if they're at least lowering their calories and having some decent quality of protein, right? But to go that extra, you're gonna hit a plateau, you're only gonna go so far with that, but to lose an additional 15, it's gonna require some little more dedication, a little more hard work, a little more exercise. Yeah, and they don't want to hear that.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

So yeah, you probably hit on a point there. They they know we're gonna tell them to stop being a pussy and work hard.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

No, yeah, right. Because I've noticed I this happens to me a lot of times when I'm at work or around family. Um, people that are not into fitness and are either trying to lose weight or lost, you know, 10, 15, 20 pounds, but they're very overweight, and um, and they don't ask me in front of people. I've noticed that the people that are really serious, they're like, okay, like there was this one guy at work that got married and I had a kid, and he was really overweight, and he actually pulled me aside by myself, by himself, not in front of everybody. And he said he was really overweight, he was like 400 pounds, and he's like, John, I gotta lose weight. I gotta, I have a baby girl now, and um, I got, you know, I have to be healthy. What do I do? And but it was like one-on-one, just me and him alone. But if I'm like around, like I've noticed that if anybody's serious, that that maybe have happened a handful of times, you know, where I get a phone call or a text message from somebody, or somebody pulls me aside by themselves. But I've noticed that in conversation among people, you know, the the girl that's doing the um, you know, what was that? The wrap that they wrap around their stomach. This, you know, this remember that fucking release burners? They're yeah, and they, you know, they lost 10 pounds or 12 pounds and they want to talk about it. I'm just sitting there, you know. Um, I had a relative that had the uh the band, the lap, uh the uh yeah, what is it? We call the lap band, is that it?

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Yeah, the gastrointestinal band, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

And um, and she stopped losing weight, and we were eating dinner, and uh she said, Um, I don't know why I'm stopped losing weight, uh, but I gotta call the doctor, you know, and I'm sitting right there, you know. Um and what do you think the doctor's gonna tell you?

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, one thing I can tell you, if they don't like what that doctor could tell them, you know what they're gonna do? They're gonna find another doctor, you know, they'll tell them whatever they want to hear, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

So the one thing that does help lose weight is I prevail subs. That's right because that's what this show is sponsored by Anabolic Academy, is sponsored by I Prevail Subs, and only I prevail subs. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Make that clear, that's gotta be clear. That's right, because the other stuff, the other shows are sponsored by other get on the t2s, increase your metabolism, help your thyroid support, and uh and and hard work, dude. Burn it the right way, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

But yeah, I prevail subs. The link is in the description. Go and get yourself some stuff. Uh, Jay actually has really, really good, um, really, really good uh quality supplements. Um, and the discount code is there, SNS10. And even if he wasn't my friend, I would say that he has quality stuff. I mean, even if I hated his fucking drugs, even if I was like that piece of shit, this is pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

This works, it's fucking works. Yeah, you can make a good fucking product back, Jerkov.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Yeah, yeah. All right, gentlemen, I'm gonna let you go. Uh, always a pleasure. Much love respect to both of you guys. Thank you very much for joining me on Anabolic Academy. And we will be in touch, Paul. Thank you very much, Jay. I'll fucking call you tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah, all right, Paul. Take care.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Later, guys.