Serious and Silliness Bodybuilding
John Livia presents the most informative and fun bodybuilding podcast ever. Covering bodybuilding contests, drama, gossip, and bodybuilding training, nutrition and supplementation.
Serious and Silliness Bodybuilding
Shooting the Breeze with John Livia and Lee Priest
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James Hollingshead with the Atlanta pro but can he break the top 10 at the Olympia??
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Oh, there we go. There we go. We're live. All right. Thank God. Okay. Sorry, guys. We had some technical difficulties. Okay, a couple of announcements. Uh Lee Priest is not gonna be with us tonight. He called out sick. Um the other announcement is I quickly have to do uh my plugs for my sponsors. And they're actually it's getting becoming not just my sponsors, I use their products now, right? And they're really good. So let's see if I could do a quick share. Uh there we go. Uh so this is NutriFit. This is the uh supplement company that sponsors me. They also have great, they have a Lee Priest line uh called uh Crucifix is the pre-workout, but they have a whole bunch of other pre-workouts and whey proteins and sleep aid and creatine and amino acids, they have a ton and they have like a lot of good clothing and and uh gear. It's actually really good shit. Uh, but the thing is, though, if you put in priest as a discount code, you get 20% off. But if you buy a Lee Priest product, which is Crucifix, that's his pre-workout, and then you also buy another product, and you use the discount code priest, you get 30% off. And I use them, so I will show you guys right now which ones I am using. Uh, here we go. This is Crowba. This is the pre-workout that I like because it's not as strong. And this is Crucifix. This is a pre-workout. This is Lee Priest pre-workout. And I think if you fucking take a scoop of this, uh, you are a race car at a red light. You are a mushroom cloud laying motherfucker, motherfucker. Like you TNT, the guns of Navarone. It's a little bit strong. Just letting you know. But the other one, vintage muscle pro hormones. Put a couple of drops underneath your tongue. Been using the epitest, and I've also been using the 19 Nandro. I actually put on eight pounds of lean muscle. I have some others I'm gonna try, but vintage muscle, neutrophit. All right, let's get into it. Chris, we are in the presence of greatness. I don't know if you realize that, but we have the 2025 Masters Mr. Olympia with us, Mr. Dorian Haywood. What's up, man? It's been a while. Where's the statue? Where's the uh trophy?
SPEAKER_00I got it at home.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. All right, all right, all right. Yeah, so you did a lot of shows this year, man, and every show you look better and better, like you were getting crisper and crisper and harder and harder on every show.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it was my best look that I've ever put on stage ever.
SPEAKER_01Well, how many shows did you do this year?
SPEAKER_00Four, five, four shows, six weeks.
SPEAKER_01Four shows, yeah. By the time you got to four show four, I remember me and Lee covered it. We were saying it was me and Lee and somebody else. I don't remember. Chris, it might have been you because you're always on. And we were talking about how much better you're looking every time you do a show. You know, you were really getting in harder and leaner, and it was just it's uh some guys look better and better every time they dye it down and do a show back to back, and some guys their bodies like can't take it, but you're the type of guy that gets better and better.
SPEAKER_03Did you do anything different from show to show or just keep doing the same thing getting better?
SPEAKER_00Um, you know, my whole approach was a little bit different. I found a way to do this that's just seems to be more sustain sustainable. I used to do stuff very extreme in the past to try to push my conditioning, and yeah, I might get my conditioning there for a minute, but I can't hold it there.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00What I did this time around is something I could have just continued doing past the four shows I did. It's sustainable, you know. It's um but show to show it was very little that I did different, just fine-tuning things, right? A little extra sodium here, a little less water there, nothing crazy.
SPEAKER_01Cool, awesome, man. Um yeah, man, he's uh really guy. I went to the New York Pro that was uh the first show, and you could tell that you had great stage presence, stage presence and the confidence from the Mr. O, the amateur oh, clearly carried over. You weren't overlooked, everybody like knew who you were by that point. So it was uh it you got your you got your just do, put it that way.
SPEAKER_00Now all these years, you know, coming in, um, and still learning and improving. And I'm 44. I just turned 44 like a week and a half ago.
SPEAKER_01You're hanging in there with the bit with the with the fucking open guys. That's pretty damn good, man. I don't feel I don't feel anyway on stage down either.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm continuing to get better. Yeah, my best season yet. I can plan to be even better next season.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Chris, Chris is going to be an ice. I'm not bullshitting anybody. Chris, you don't you're competing next year, Chris? Yes, sir. Yeah, Chris is going to be a name you're gonna know by next year. He's already uh we discussed before we got on got started live, and you're already over 300 pounds. You were really impressive last year when you turned pro, and then you jumped right into what show did you jump right into? Tampa or Texas? Tampa, and uh looked really impressive. Um, and I'm sure you're gonna make great uh great uh improvements over this offseason. I'm sure you made improvements last offseason, and um, so we're definitely gonna we get everybody's gonna know Chris Masaro's name next year, that's for sure. Now, there's a whole bunch of shit that's going on. It's just weird. It's just I don't know. Some sometimes it's weird. All right. So, James, let's we'll talk about James Holling's head first. James Holling's head finally gets the win, and uh deservedly so. I I I I've said this plenty of times before, Dorian. I'm a fan of two different bodybuilders, the masked monsters. I've always loved the masked monsters, the guys like Nick and Samson, and the guys that just don't quit, you know. Like, I'll put you in that category, Dorian. Like the guys that just don't give up. Like, I became a huge fan of Blessing because even though he wasn't placing where he wanted to place, he wouldn't give up. And he still came better and better, even though he won. He was doing everything he can to win. It's like that underdog thing. You just you just can't, you just want to see him win. James falls into that. He comes in second three shows in a row, that has to be fucking frustrating, and then he finally gets the win. Chris, what do you think?
SPEAKER_03I mean, the the biggest thing was like he's just uh what you could really see not so much in like the uh the professional cameras, but when you see someone get like an iPhone out, you could really see the conditioning, and I think that's what really set set him apart, you know. Because like, don't be wrong, at Tampa, like Nick was just a freak, you know, like completely. Oh, you can't he's a different category. That was the like the best I've ever seen him, you know. Yeah, you know, James. Like, when you see those those iPhone pictures, man, you see how grainy his glutes are and his legs, and you see how deep his lines actually are. Sometimes those professional cameras they kind of like smooth you over. I don't like it.
SPEAKER_01It doesn't look good.
SPEAKER_03The live stream is awful. No, live stream sucked, you know.
SPEAKER_01Live stream was awful, and for the life of me, I can't figure out why they can't figure it out.
SPEAKER_02I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I it's just did you watch the the live stream, Dorian? It dude, it's kept going in and out, stopping. It was horrible and not clear at all. Until you saw those high definition picks, not clear at all. So, what did you think about James Wynn, James Wynn, Dorian? Oh, we can't hear you. You're you're on mute. See if you can unmute yourself. Or uh you could you could uh come out and come back in. That usually helps. But um, so all right. I'm very happy for James. I he is like a very likable bodybuilder, never says a bad thing about anybody. There we go. We could hear you now. You hear me? Yeah, okay. So what did you think about the James victory?
SPEAKER_00I thought it was well deserved. I thought he should have won in China two weeks. So did I before that? He had an awesome showing in Tampa. Um, I think it was pretty undeniable in what just happened in Atlanta. He deserved that win.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What was most impressive about James is he was finally able to, it seems like he found the formula. First of all, I'll be the first one to say last year I was writing him off. I was actually saying he should retire. Um, so I'll be the first to admit that and say that whatever I said, I'm gonna stay accountable for. I was obviously wrong. Okay. This guy found the formula, whatever it was, and he was able to hold on to that fucking size and graininess and roundness and fullness, and traveling to different countries to do this. This wasn't like you know, you know, in only in the states. He went from where was he? Was in China, then what shows did he do? He did China, he came in second.
SPEAKER_03Well, he was in Europe before that, though.
SPEAKER_01He was in Europe before that. What show was that's right. Was it Portugal? Jordan Hutchinson beat him. Yeah, right. So I think that was Portugal, if I'm not wrong. Is it Spain or Portugal? I can't remember. He did that, then he went to China, looked amazing in China, then he went to Tampa, looked incredible there, right? Then he went to Atlanta and he finally wins. So this guy that's really you gotta give credit where credit is, too. He was able to find the formula that held his size, his fullness, his uh structure, and his definition and condition that grainy hard, like you could tell those the years of just pushing fucking iron reflects in his physique, you know. The only thing that he he does, and you know what, Chris? I want your opinion on this. Yeah, because you're good at posing when he does the lat spread, he kind of pushes his hands forward and it kind of almost pulls his stomach out, if you've noticed.
SPEAKER_03So I think it's a mix of I think he's elevating his shoulders a little bit and he's putting his elbows too far forward. He's like elongating the muscles and making himself look a little bit thinner than he really is. I think if I think if he pushed his shoulders down and didn't put his elbows so far forward, you'd see more of those those lats. But um, yeah, I mean, just being open and honest, I think that if he if he added like some thickness to his lats and his back, I mean he'd he'd be like a whole nother level of bodybuilder because he's got a big chest, got big arms, his legs are crazy. Yeah, he's got the conditioning, but like no nobody's perfect, right? Nobody is right. So if if he could add more size there, which obviously he could put size on, right? You know, so he would he'd be another level, man. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So Dorian, let's get to number two. Regan Grimes takes second. Um, deservedly so. The guy has he's big, he has a beautiful frame, beautiful structure, round muscle bellies, just not as hard and grainy as James. But some people like the shape over the size and graininess. Some people I talk to believe that they should have given Regan uh first place. But I always go for the size and conditioning. It's not like James has terrible shape, uh, he's got good shape. Regan just has excellent shape. What did you think?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you pretty much summed it up there. I think with James, he's got like a gargantuan structure. He's a large man, he's got a big head, he's got a big frame, and to be able to fill that out, it takes a lot of muscle. I don't think his aesthetic appeal is as nice as Regan's, but like you said, the muscularity, the hardness, the conditioning. He had Regan in all those places, so I think he deserved the win. Regan, his structure is incredible. And I talked to him about the same thing in the Olympia when I saw him last year. It's like for him to be able to get the combination of the fullness and the shape and the conditioning, it's almost impossible. It's like he's got to sacrifice one for another. And he I've never seen him just nail it 100% on both the conditioning and the shape and the size.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00So there's like a give and take, and he just plays his best card.
SPEAKER_01Chris, who do who does he work with? Do you know?
SPEAKER_03I think Dom Super Slice is like a thought. That's right, that's right. That's right. I mean, like if anybody's gonna get you in shape, I mean Dom Super Slice knows what he's doing.
SPEAKER_01So so I'm I'm expecting him to be in even better shape for Texas. So clearly on paper, he's the favorite to win for Texas.
SPEAKER_03If if I just as a fan, I I would say not to worry about the size and just get fucking shredded because yeah, when you have shape like that and you're shredded, like it's it's hard to look away from, you know what I'm saying? Right. So like he doesn't really need to push the size game when you have guys like Nick and Samson around, and and you know, like he he did place ahead of Joe, and Joe is huge, you know. So like you know that you're he's not outsizing, you know. So I say play with the cards you have, you know.
SPEAKER_01Right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. Emphasize the the uh the pros of your body.
SPEAKER_03He's got such a great looking physique, you know. Yeah, he really I've I've been a fan since he did classic. He's he's been competing now as a pro for like 10 years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, he's no, he's no, it's like it's like it's at the point where it's like, all right, dude, it's time for you to win a show and get to the Olympia stage. Um, it's time for you to start uh being a threat on stage. Like it's at the point where you hear Regan Grimes's name, and I'm not sure that I'm I'm I'm sure that it would happen on a stage like Atlanta or Tampa or Texas. It's gotta get to the point where you hear he's coming in a bigger show, like maybe a New York Pro or Dubai or uh classic. I think he won New York Pro is classic, but I think back in the day. You're right, he did, he did, you're right. Um, and then it's gotta get to the point where he comes in, you go, Oh, fuck, that's dangerous. It's like when when Tubani decided he was doing China, we were like, Oh shit. I thought I thought James was gonna have that in the bag, but everybody was like, Fuck, Tobani's fucking too good, right? And I I feel like whatever Regan's doing, um, he he he he just hasn't found the formula yet. Some guys take a long time to find it, you know. And I'm not saying that he's not working hard and not trying. Like, you look at a guy like Akeem Williams, it took him years to find the formula. Look at a guy like James Hollings that he finally found the formula. These one, these are veterans, you know.
SPEAKER_03And also, even if you find the formula, though, that might be the formula for that year, you know. Like, yeah, for me, I was a lot smaller, obviously, when I when I turned pro, but we found the formula for that year, you know. Like, obviously, we're we're gonna try to bring in the conditioning like that as I'm bigger, but it's a new ball game now, you know. Right, yeah, yeah, you're obviously gonna get conditioned when you have to make a weight, like back in the day. Like he was shredded to the bones when he did classic because he had to make weight, so that's right. That's right. I was gonna say this too. He's not small by any means, he's fucking huge. Like, if you see Regan in person, he's a big person. Yeah, so like I just don't think he needs to worry about playing the size game. Like, that's why I was saying that, you know.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Um, Joe Palacios. I hate critiquing Joe Palacios because he's become a friend, he's kind of like uh us, like how I talk to Chris, how I talk to you, Dorian. Like, he's become a friend. Like, I message him here and there. We shoot the shit a little bit on Instagram. He's been on a bunch of times now at this point, but he kind of missed the mark. I mean, he was clearly the biggest guy on stage. I mean, it wasn't even close, he was a fucking monster. His side shots are so impressive because he has so much fucking size. You know, it's like it's almost like a Mac truck is doing the fucking pose, right? But he was just he just missed the mark. Uh, Dorian, what do you think? Do you think that it's just a lot of people think that he put on too much weight too fast? Because I believe he put on how Chris, how much weight did he put on in this year? 20 pounds or something like that? Maybe 15 a stage weight, I think or 20 pounds of brand new muscle.
SPEAKER_00It's a lot, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's a lot. What do you think, Dorian?
SPEAKER_00Uh I don't think he put on muscle too fast. I mean, Joe is kind of the phenom he is because of what he is, and he is a mass monster, right? Turn himself into a big freak. Yeah, and I mean that in the most respectful way.
SPEAKER_01Of course.
SPEAKER_00You know, his size is what makes him who he is. He's not playing. I mean, everybody builder wants to find that fine balance between conditioning and size. But Joe, he's just got so much excessive size that that's what makes him relevant in today's bodybuilding field. You know, and I do, I think he missed the mark a little bit in Tampa. He was better last week over in Atlanta. And I wish he would do Texas, and I think he's making a big mistake by not doing Texas, he's already in shape. Yeah, people love him in Texas. Go do the show. You can punch your ticket.
SPEAKER_01I think he got a little discouraged, to be honest with you. I think he was discouraged with his performance, even though he he said, uh, yeah, um uh, but I think he got a little discouraged because you know when the bodybuilding world is saying things like, Man, how is he gonna do against Nick? Nick may Nick may have his his you know, his he may have his work cut out for him, right? Yeah, and then it gets to his head and you go, Fuck, you know, two weeks ago everybody was saying that I might be able to beat Nick, and Nick comes out and smokes everybody because Nick is on another level. You can't like, you know, there's like five bodybuilders in the world that are on another level, and they shouldn't even do these small shows because they just could, you know, these are Arnold Classic winners and Olympia winners. Um, so I knew Nick was gonna win, and I knew it wasn't gonna be close, but I was really rooting for Joe because Joe is a very likable guy. No, he doesn't say a bad word about anybody. You know, he always says nice things about right after the show. Um, but uh if he's mentally not into it, then yeah, see what you can. I don't think I don't think he has to put any more size on. That goes without saying. But I think him and Justin needs to need to figure out that balance, like you said, Dory, and what you know, that balance until next year. But if I were Joe, I wouldn't take too much time. Like I wouldn't wait another year. I would see if I could do an early show next year, you know, a New York Pro or Pittsburgh, something to that effect, you know. Well, I don't think I don't think he needs a lot of time to fix the issues.
SPEAKER_00You know, he hasn't been competing in an extremely long time. Yeah, that might have been his pro show.
SPEAKER_03I think he's only done a few shows in his whole life, like he's done pro pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_00His fifth pro show. So, I mean, the guy he has a lot to learn still.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, the other guy I want to get to, which I thought I was gonna see a lot better from, is Ken, Colossus Ken. I don't think he did Atlanta. If he did Atlanta, he did very poor because I didn't see him in Atlanta, but I know he did Tampa. He has all the size in the world, he has all the shape in the world, he just can't seem to find that uh the conditioning. And I think again, I think it takes time before these guys figure out. Look, I am of the opinion that if you take years and you put on quality size every year, I think I might be wrong, but I think it's a little easier to bring in the conditioning. Whereas if you put 15-20 pounds on in six months to a year, I think it becomes very difficult to figure out the conditioning with this new muscle and this new frame. And you know, uh, I might be wrong, but what do you say this, John?
SPEAKER_03It's it's easier said than done, though, because like for me, I didn't plan on being 300 pounds. Like, I don't eat a lot. Like, uh, if people saw what I ate, they're like, Oh, you're like 175 pounds. I don't really eat a lot of food, but my body grows, so what am I gonna do? I only I only train one way. I train hard, I I really love the gym, like I don't eat like shit, but like my if my body's gonna put on size, what am I gonna do? I can't like just I can't just do like a random cut for no reason either. I don't believe in that, you know. Maybe a little bit to shed off some fat here and there, but not like a full-on people call it like mini cuts for like eight or twelve weeks. I don't do that stuff, but like you know, someone like Joe, like bro, like he he just grows like touching weight, so and he knows. I've talked to him, he's like, Yeah, we don't have to put any more size on, you know. So they're there, I know they're gonna go back to the drawing board, figure something out, you know.
SPEAKER_01I feel like Joe and Colossus Ken have too much potential. I really I did a I did a last year after the season was over, I did five guys that you need to look out for for this year, and two of them that I included was Joe and Colossus Kent. Um, because I just feel like they have just way too much potential. So, Dorian, what do you think about uh Colossus Kent? Because he's another guy that has he's enormous, and he just can't kind of find that perfect conditioning. He comes in a little. Bit off.
SPEAKER_00Right before we started filming, uh, Chris was talking about he's 300 pounds. Obviously, that's impressive for anybody builder to 300 pounds. But he also said, it's all it's all water. And we we know Chris has some dense muscle there, but I can also guarantee you Chris isn't gonna be 300 pounds on stage. Right. No, not at all. No, and um can mention Colossal Ken. That's I think some of these guys in their offseason, they hit these gigantic weights, and I'm like, oh man, you know, Tance and Doubters competing almost 300 pounds. I'm gonna be right up there with them. No, you ain't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it doesn't happen like that all the time.
SPEAKER_00Once you lose all the water and the appropriate amount of body fat to get your conditioning right, I mean, Chris might be 300 pounds now. What are you gonna be on stage? 265?
SPEAKER_03No, yeah, no, I won't. I I'll I'll be honest, I'll probably be like 240, 245 if I come and condition the way I really want to.
SPEAKER_00See, now what Chris just said, Chris is a smart guy, right? But I think uh a guy like Colossus Ken, he put on a lot of size and he wanted to see that same number on the scale on the stage.
SPEAKER_01Big mistake, because it's your head, it's a head game, yeah. Because I texted when Joe did uh Tampa, I was watching the the live stream, and every time he did a side shot, it was so impressive. His side shots, just his chest and his and his shoulders, just fucking and his legs look even better from the side than they do from the front. Um, and I texted Justin, I was like, dude, how much does he weigh? And he's like in the low 260s. So Joe was one of those guys that was well over 300 in this this year's offseason, and you know, he had to shed 40 pounds to to get in shape.
SPEAKER_03I think he was 315 on top, so he lost like 50 pounds. Yeah, it's but also he loses fat fast too. He's got a very fast metabolism, which I I lose my I lose weight very fast too. So, like, that's another thing. Like, you're like, oh shit, I just lost 20 pounds, I just lost 30. Like, you know, so like I mean, I was when I was training with him, he was still in the 270s and he looked sick then.
SPEAKER_01So let's move on. Let's get to uh Patrick Moore. I think this was the best Patrick Moore I've seen since that 19, what was it, the 2019 Olympia?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I agree. He he was sick.
SPEAKER_01He looked fantastic. Why do you think they didn't reward him with a higher placing? What did he come in fourth? This this fourth. He came in fourth. Why do you think do you think it was just Joe's size that uh that made him coming fourth? That made uh uh Patrick coming fourth.
SPEAKER_00I competed against Patrick three times this season. Yeah, so I get to see him in person in the flesh. Yeah, and he's gotten better. Now he this was his eighth show of the season, and next week he's doing Texas. That's gonna be his ninth show of the season.
SPEAKER_01Kudos.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. And he keeps getting better every show.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he's one of those guys.
SPEAKER_00First five shows that he did, he's gonna take some time off to come back and do Tampa. I thought it was a stupid idea, but he proved me wrong because he came in awesome.
SPEAKER_01He did.
SPEAKER_00So I think I mean there's one little minor flaw in his physique. He's he's got that injury to his calf. So his one calf is smaller than the other. But I would say from what I've seen with Patrick, his conditioning isn't quite as good as it could be, and I think that's the only reason he didn't place higher.
SPEAKER_01You might be right, uh, because um he said that he spoke to the judges, and the judges told him he needed more back. And I'm like, I yeah, I didn't agree with that. I was like, This this guy came in, his rear double buy was really impressive, man. I mean, look, it wasn't it wasn't written he really was. He looked good. Chris, what did you think? I don't think it was his back. No, I definitely don't.
SPEAKER_03I I don't know. Like sometimes listen, you should listen to the judges, you know, for the most part, especially when you're a pro and they'll they'll usually be honest with you. But sometimes they're full of shit because maybe they don't remember, you know, because listen, they're humans, and maybe they don't remember, yeah, even if it was a little while ago. But I mean, if there's any amateurs watching this, which I'm sure there is, they just saw 600 people. Do you really think they remember that much? It's unless they maybe wrote some notes down. But um, off of that, yeah, I I just think even though his conditioning's gone better and better and better, I think uh just some guys have a little bit thicker skin than other guys. Um, and even though there was not really fat there, there's not, he doesn't have much body fat, he might hold a little bit more water, maybe has a little bit higher estrogen levels, or maybe has a little bit more collagen in his skin. There's a lot of things that can make you look a little bit watery on stage, and it could just be a genetic thing, you know, because he obviously is working his ass off, you know.
SPEAKER_01That's he's there's no fat, so and he's self-coaching, he doesn't have a coach, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And also doing that yourself and looking in the mirror, that's not easy. That's why we all have most of us have coaches, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And he's staying out of trouble, apparently, too. You know, you don't see him get into fights outside of gym anytime recently. Um, all right, uh, let's see. Okay, next guy I want to talk about. Here's okay, I don't know how judging works. I spoke to Jay Orange because Jay has went through uh school, I guess you could call it, for for coaching and for judging. And I said, When you see a pec tear or any kind of tear in somebody's physique, do they uh thumb your your performance down? Because when somebody has a bad tear, you your eyes go right to it, and Charles Griffin has a terrible pec tear. Is that you think that that is the reason, or was basically just the size and shape that he couldn't contend with?
SPEAKER_03I I'll I'll speak on it a little bit. So I want to I want to say he looked impressive. When he walked out for his individual at Tampa, I was like, yeah, I was like, damn, this guy looks good. You know, like I I was a fan immediately. Um, I think it's a little bit of a balanced thing from top to bottom, personally. Um, and he he pulls a killer vacuum, but there's a couple times he let his stomach go between poses, which they'll they they will knock you for that too. But like if there's any structural, you know, imbalances top to bottom, front to back kind of thing, they will knock you for that, you know. So I mean, but overall, I mean, like, he's got a sick ass physique, man.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I just couldn't keep my eye away from his pector. Every time.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. On the pector, I don't know. Like, you gotta think. Let's say, let's say you go to I'm not a judge, but like if you go to a car show and they're awarding the best car, if one's got a big rough spot on it, even though it's a sick car, you're gonna be like, Oh, well, I gotta give the guy who's got the perfect car.
SPEAKER_01Dorian, what do you think? Uh, because that I can't, I I'm not gonna lie, I can't keep my eyes. You he comes on stage. The first your first place you go is the first place you'll look is his pector. I mean, and it's deep, like it's halfway through his chest, you know. So I think what did he get? Sixth place. He got, yeah, sixth because it was yeah, he did not uh who is who came in fifth? Uh uh Louis Breed.
SPEAKER_00But um Charles got sixth. Yeah, Duncan, he got seventh. Both those guys have pecked tears.
SPEAKER_01Really?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00I think uh Chris is right on the money. You have to if it's that obvious, if there's creating asymmetry, if it's taking away of the balance of the physique, you have to judge against it. I I would think so.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and even if even if you don't, it's human nature to look at them and go, nah, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Like it's just well, we got two bodybuilders that are perfectly identical, but one has a pec tear and has that little asymmetry. You you give it to the guy who doesn't have a pec tear, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't think I think a lot of judges see it and they recognize this as an injury, and these guys have worked around it and they bust their ass and they're on stage and they're in shape, but still the you you gotta judge what you see.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I mean, when Dorian competed and he had that bicep tear and he had the tricep tear, you know, his last Olympia, he did not deserve that win, and it just looked awful, you know. His stomach was extended, distended rather. But another thing about Charles, I've had Charles on the show several times, and I know this is going back a few years. Now, a few years back, Charles would have been a serious force to contend with. He won a couple of shows, he was on the Olympia stage, he was one of the best in the world. He took some time off. I don't know why. I think he took two, two and a half years off. I don't I don't know why.
SPEAKER_00Personal issues, it was personal issues.
SPEAKER_01I think it was his why they divorce or something. Yeah, that'll drive you fucking crazy. But he seems to be wanting to start a lot of drama where there's no drama. Like he decided that he was just gonna call out Joe Palacios, even though Joe never said anything about him. And even though Joe still didn't say anything about him, he was very upset in Tampa when they placed Joe ahead of him. And he was even he he was even upset in Atlanta when they didn't compare him to Joe. And I don't I don't understand it. Like, did he? I mean, I made this joke, and I said, Did he have a dart board with every competitor's name and just throw a dart and go, okay, that's who I'm gonna start shit with? I don't understand what the deal was with him and Joe, why he had this had it out for Joe. What did you think, Dorian?
SPEAKER_00I thought what he said was justified. They're like, where does this Joe do come from? What has he done in the past? And no, he doesn't have nearly the same qualifications and accolades of what Charles has achieved in the IFBB. So I put Charles there.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00I've known Charles a long time, and uh he's a great competitor, but he is one of the most unpleasant people to be around. He shows up and he is the fucking dark energy in the room, uh, and it's a disease to the energy of the entire show.
SPEAKER_01Oh, is that bad, really?
SPEAKER_00I mean, that was in some of the incidences that I've personally experienced. He always yells at me because he's Griffin, G, and I'm Haywood. So he's we're always next to each other in line. He's always bitching at me for no reason, he's always angry.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I don't I don't understand it.
SPEAKER_00We're body we're showing off our physiques and manpinies, and we got shaved legs.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't seriously.
SPEAKER_00Let's have some fun.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, at this point, once you once you get there, the work is done.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_01Once you're once you're there, the work is done. I don't I don't know if he thinks that they're just overlooking him. He did go on Fuad's podcast and and say that Fuad doesn't give him any love. And um, I thought Fuad had a different had had didn't have such a good answer. Fuad got defensive, and Fuad was like, Well, who else is covering you? Nobody else is covering you. And if I were him and I was in that position, and somebody came on and said you you didn't give me love, I'd be like, Why did I hurt your feelings? I mean, you're on the show now, so I'm giving you love now. What's the difference if I didn't talk about you in the past? You know, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but you know, that would have been my attitude, right? Um yeah, I don't know. And what's funny is that I had him on several times. As a matter of fact, he was on the first show I ever did when I was on muscular development, and he was a great guy, he was really cool, you know, down to earth. I don't know what he's like backstage. I don't know if the prep gets to him, I don't know if it's a personal thing. Halo and trending get you, man. Yeah, right. But it just seemed, and it did it well. I'll be honest with you, it wasn't a good look for him, man. It really, really wasn't wasn't a good look for him.
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna I'm just I'm gonna talk about physique though. I'm gonna I'm gonna because I don't know him personally. I'm just looking at his pictures right now and looking at the video from Tampa. What what did he place at Tampa?
SPEAKER_01At Tampa, he was uh fourth, right?
SPEAKER_03Okay, I mean I I think that's fair because I mean, like, listen, like yeah, Tampa he was I'm looking at him, he he was shredded, man. Like he so no question, his conditioning was crazy, you know. Um, he great stage presence. I mean, I I don't know. I like seeing someone get amped up on stage, I think it's fun. Yes, but I'm I'm gonna say what I said before. There's a couple times where he let his stomach go, and they will knock you for that. They're just they're just judging us, and yeah, he does have the pec tear a little bit. Um, and I think I mean his legs look sick, and and I don't and I'm sure he works his freaking ass off because like I mean, they're just they don't quite match how wide his shoulders are, like his his upper body's so wide and he's got so much muscle up there that when he stands forward, even though he's his legs are probably some of the most conditioned on stage, I gotta say. Uh, they just don't quite match his upper his upper body. But I mean, in that lineup to be fourth, I mean, you should still be pretty freaking happy because dude, Joe is huge, man, and it is bodybuilding first.
SPEAKER_01The judges will tell you these are no joke bodybuilders, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And like that, that has to be reminded too. If there's young competitors watching, whatever, it is bodybuilding first. It's it's it is size first, then conditioning, then your posing, and and or your structure, I mean, and your posing, but like so. If you get beat by someone who's got 20 pounds on you, I mean, like, it's it's tough, you know. And it's not like even even though Joe's conditioning probably wasn't as good as as Griffin's. I mean, Joe is huge, so it's like he he earned one spot above you for sure, in my opinion, for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I I I I guess it's a placing, and I can see why someone would really like uh Griffin's physique, too, though. You know, so he's got a great physique, it's just that you know, now you're going against these guys are fucking monsters, man. And Tampia, Nick James, and and and Joe, these are big motherfuckers.
SPEAKER_03And he did fight his way back because I don't think he was in that call out, and then he got brought back into it. So he fought his way back.
SPEAKER_01He clearly wasn't overlooked, no, because he was claiming he thought he was overlooked. He clearly wasn't. If you're in the top five, you're not overlooked. That they could obviously see you, right?
SPEAKER_03Especially if they bring you into it later. They're like, Hey, what's that guy? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, all right. Next guy I want to talk about is Lewis Breed. Why do you think, Dorian, why do you think Lewis Breed has such a hard time breaking into uh the fur, you know, top three, winning a show. He hasn't won a show yet. He's big, got good shape, he comes in shredded. What is it about his physique that the judges don't like?
SPEAKER_00His midsection.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Lewis is a freak, man. His name's always killer. He's got huge legs, huge arms, great chest, he's got huge everything. Yeah, including big midsection. If he just a little bit more, um if he could pull that midsection in a little tighter, he could be winning shows.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know. He really and he comes, he's got that again, that hard, grainy, fucking Dorian-esque type of physique, you know.
SPEAKER_00Hard as nails. He's an awesome competitor, and he's got everything, and he's got a good head on his shoulders, too. He's nice. But you know, every time that I see him, uh his weight's kind of high on stage, and I think maybe he's eaten a little bit too much before the shows. Um, he needs to do some work to get that midsection tighter. I don't know exactly what he needs to do, but to answer your question, that's what the judges are saying that's keeping him from those top spots.
SPEAKER_01Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00Without a doubt.
SPEAKER_01Chris, what do you think?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm I'm looking at I just make sure I always I just look again. Yeah, and I agree, there's there's definitely some times it lets the stomach go. And and when your stomach is that thick, because he's got a lot of muscle there too, it takes away from the size of your legs and it takes away from the size of your arms. Because our our eyes are always gonna look to the midsection, you know. And as someone who has a wide waist myself, my waist isn't big by measurement, but it's wide at the hips. I gotta make sure I pull a vacuum, I suck it in tight. Like, I'm gonna go back to the bigger guys, like Joe again, because there's a video of all these guys backstage. His stomach was still flat when you when you look at Joe from the side, he's still got a flat stomach, so he's not letting the stomach hang out. So, like, that's a certain level of conditioning, yes, but also um like a certain level of discipline to keep your stomach in like that all year and be mindful of because I'm sure by himself, because he he's a freak, he looks huge in the mirrors. You know, everyone's probably like, dude, you look insane. But then when you're up against other guys whose stomach clearly are smaller, it's gonna set you apart.
SPEAKER_01Now, is it the same problem with Tim Boudishane? Because I feel like he's another guy, a monster, comes in shape, he's chiseled, hard, grainy. Um, and he you know has a hard time breaking into the top five. You know, I think he came in seventh in this seventh or eighth, I don't remember. And same thing at Tampa. Uh Dorian, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00Now I've got to compete against Tim several times.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, and I feel bad for Tim because he's been doing this so long. I want to see him get better and better and better and better. But his placements this year have been lower than normal.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00And his midsection, especially like his lower midsection, is the worst I've ever seen it. So he doesn't have the best aesthetics in the first place. He's got crazy legs and he gets good conditioning and he's a good bodybuilder, but he doesn't have the best aesthetics. You add that to what we saw this season, a little bit of distension in the lower abdomen that hurts his aesthetics appeal even more. So unfortunately, this hasn't been his best season. If he can get that lower abdomen tighter, you know, we might see a better placement. But until he fixes that, he's gonna be riding around that tenth spot every time.
SPEAKER_03Chris, what's your opinion on him? Yeah, I have the same opinion. I mean, like, listen, it's it is what it is. If you're if you're walking out on stage, if you don't have that discipline to keep the stomach in, or if if if you already don't have the best aesthetics and then you don't keep it in, the judge they're kind of gonna write you off. It's just you know, they structure isn't everything in open, but it is something, you know. So if your structure is not the best, but you control it, like look at Nick. Like, Nick's structure is not the prettiest, but he keeps his stomach in tight, you know, like and he's getting better and better at doing it, it's getting better. It can be done. It and it, but it's not like you you fix it overnight. That takes a whole year or more of stuck in your stomach in all the time. So anytime you're walking around your house and you want to be relaxed, you suck your stomach in. You you're doing planks, you suck in your side planks, all these little things. Yeah, like I mean, like I try so hard not to let my gut hang out when I'm like walking around, or if I'm walking on the strip now in Vegas, I'm like sucking in the whole time. I'm out of breath. But like, that's the discipline it takes to make sure that stomach doesn't hang out because as you get bigger, those the the the ab muscles are gonna get bigger, transverse abs are gonna get bigger, and then obviously, if there isn't any organ growth, I mean, like, you really it's a lot of work, man.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I can only imagine.
SPEAKER_03So it's like the work's got to start the minute you start putting that food on again, you know.
SPEAKER_01And we've seen guy, we've seen people fix it in the past. I remember Rolly Winkler, Holly. You'll enjoy this. Uh, you'll enjoy this comment. I remember when Rolly Winkler had a bad distinction, and then I believe it was that the Arnold Classic Ohio, and then he did the Arnold Australia back when they had the Arnold Australia, and somehow, some way in that period of time, he was able to pull a vacuum, and I think he actually got the victory.
SPEAKER_03Um, so we've seen people fix it. His could have been more digestion, though, because I don't think he had like terrible distention like all the time. Okay, I'm just guessing because I'm I'm thinking it was probably something more digestive or something, eating a bad food, or maybe he had bad gut health. You could fix that pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So I hope these guys are able to fit because these are the future, these are the guys of the future, Joe and um Regan, um, and uh Lewis Breed. I think if they fix these little things, you know, a lot of people don't understand when you get to this elite stage, the smallest thing, because everybody is so good in this elite stage, and everybody wants to qualify for the Olympia, and they're doing everything they can. The smallest thing could like basically get you just exempt, you know, it they could just go, okay, no, not you. Because there's just so many good quality guys. I am of the opinion that this, and Dorian, let me know. This generation of open bodybuilders is really deep, like the talent pool is deep. What do you think?
SPEAKER_00You're right. Um, I think uh with all these upcoming guys, I mean everybody's gonna progress however they're I'm trying to understand your question a little bit better, but to back up what you're just talking about, right? It's an elite group of guys, yeah. And if we're talking, I mean, look at the Olympia level. If you look at these guys that are in the top five, I hate to be the judge because honestly, they've all done so much work and dedicated so much time to making themselves that perfect. Yeah, all winners. They're all winners, but unfortunately, we got to place them in some type of an order.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_00If you're looking at those guys in the top five and the guys that are in six through ten, it might just be one percent body fat or identify his pose just right. This guy let his stomach slightly come out as he was doing his quarter turn. Just these minute details is what's gonna Keep you from winning a show or being a top five guy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, look at the fact that Samson has won, Derek has won, Hottie has won. You have all these Olympia winners right there, and like, okay, you know, Derek was off a little bit, Samson won, or or you know, Hottie was off a little bit, and then like Andrew beats him. Like, you have these guys, like, just like you said, the smallest little thing. And I'm I'm gonna go back to the offseason, too. There's a reason why when you're at that level, you might love doing barbell back squats and deadlifts and everything. But if there's even the slightest chance that it could hurt your back or or make your stomach blow out, you got to make that decision, like, okay, maybe I can't do this really fun badass exercise. I gotta go do a machine now. Not everyone's like, Oh, I'm a I'm a badass, I only do free weights. Like, okay, well, you know, you you gotta make those little decisions that might make you that one percent better, even if you feel a little bit like a pussy sometimes. You're not a pussy, you're a top bodybuilding the world, right? Like you've already proven yourself. Now it's like like getting those little bit to edge yourself up another spot, edge yourself up another spot, you know.
SPEAKER_01It's um it's amazing the difference these guys have to go through just to really grind it out and get to that next spot. Uh and yeah, I honestly think like 10 years from now, 20 years from now, we're gonna be talking about this era. This is a deep era, yeah. And I don't think they're getting they just do. I mean, between Hottie, Derek, Andrew, Samson, Nick, Martin. It's a fucking deep era, man. I'm gonna say this is so fucking good, you know.
SPEAKER_03We all we all hear about the golden era of the 90s, all right? And and I'm uh we're obviously all of the age where that we that's what made us fans, right? Absolutely, but like right now, you we have guys 250, 260 plus, 270 with shredded glutes. Like, I mean, that wasn't that wasn't the deal back then. Most of the guys were 230s, 240s back then.
SPEAKER_01I mean, Lee Priest would have been 212 bodybuilders.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know, not Lee Priest, of course. He he he would not do it right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But he would they were always around 200 pounds, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like that's what I'm saying. Like Dexter Jackson was under 220 when he started winning, right? Yeah, right. So, like I'm just saying, like, and their lines are beautiful, but we have a different era now. And every time you talk to Judges, get bigger, get harder, get bigger, get harder, get drier. It's like that's a there's a lot of there's a lot more at stake when you have they they say they don't want bigger, but then they ask you to get bigger. So I mean, we're we're looking at freaks right now.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, there's no question. This is the freakiest era. Now, Dorian, you've been competing professionally for how long now?
SPEAKER_00A decade.
SPEAKER_01All right, so for 10 years, that's actually perfect. Have you seen a difference in the size from when you first competed as a professional as to now in general?
SPEAKER_00Not really. I mean, before I was ever a pro, and you know, when I was first getting into bodybuilding to be a bodybuilder, that's when Dorian phased out, then Ronnie Coleman was the new champ. Neither of those guys were small.
SPEAKER_01No, yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_00You know, yeah, and pretty much uh at the time I was going pro, that's when Phil was in his reign. And Phil, you know, he might have been what 245 on stage.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Not the biggest, but I mean, you put him on stage and look at him. He looks like the biggest dude in the world.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Then uh you got Rodin, J. Culler. The interesting thing about this era to me, and what to follow up on what Chris was saying, is in all the eras, there's always been a dominant champ that just won, one, one, one. Yeah, else really had a chance to jump in there and contend until that champ was ready to be to to retire.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00We're in a really cool place right now. For the past several years, it's like the competition's so close, it can go anyway.
SPEAKER_01I and it's so much more exciting this way. Oh, I love it.
SPEAKER_00Competitors need to be super strategic and very smart about their approach through the offseason, through the so they can make the improvements that they need to edge these other guys out.
SPEAKER_03Right. I mean, the fact that like I I genuinely have no idea who's gonna win the Olympia. No, I love clue.
SPEAKER_01Like, we have to say, no, I can't, I can't even say. I mean, gun to my head, I want to say Samson because it looks like he realized the mistake he made last year. But everyone keeps sleeping on Derek, like yeah, Derek can still win it. It's like the guy's winning.
SPEAKER_00Andrew Jack's right in line.
SPEAKER_01Andrew.
SPEAKER_03Andrew looked amazing at the if Nick brings this look to the Olympia and if he's any tighter, like that's gonna really shake things up, too.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And don't forget, I know Martin Fitzwood. If Martin, if he has his head screwed on right and he does his homework, he's a threat, he's a big time threat to that top five.
SPEAKER_03What was that? Romanian, the Romanian pro where he looked insane and beat last year, we beat Samson.
SPEAKER_01That was crazy. That was Prague, right? That was Proc. Prog, Proc, yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right, so that's where I think uh we're gonna have issues with these guys uh that have uh that have won shows, um, but they're gonna be a difficult time breaking into the top ten. James Hollingshead is a fantastic bodybuilder, and he's come in second three times and he finally wins a show. But the Olympia is a different level, man. It's a totally different animal. I don't, and it's not, it's I gotta you everybody has to understand that getting to the Olympia is a fucking is a is a is a is a just a fucking amazing thing to do to begin with. Breaking the top ten is is extraordinarily amazing. As good as James is, I don't think he's gonna be able to break the top ten. Dorian, what do you think? Because you were you were at the Olympia and you won the Masters Olympia, and you were there. And uh I don't remember what you didn't break the top ten.
SPEAKER_00I didn't. But but here's this is the thing. I've got two things you know, one of the biggest things that I took out of the Olympia, and it was very discouraging to me because I wanted to come in there and be competitive, but just as much I think it's more of a popularity contest than it is a bodybuilding contest.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00So that sucks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00For guys like James because you know, as you're an amateur, you work your way up to the top of the amateurs, then you're pro, then you start back at the bottom again. You're pro, you're pro, then finally you win a pro show. Now you come back to the bottom of the Olympias.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00So I think this is where James is gonna be. If top 10, I think he has the physique and all the right tools to break into that top 10. His physique is incredible, and he's an incredible bodybuilder, and I think he deserves to be in that top 10 if he fucking nails it. Right. I think he could be in there, but I think just for the fact that this is the first Olympia, got him out of the top 10.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he no, I think he did the Olympia once before, but he came in last. And I remember he can't he over dieted and he came in really lean. Yeah, he was too stringy. But if you break, I mean, if you look at the guys in the top 10, I mean, you look at Derek, Hadi, Andrew, Samson, Nick, Martin, that's already six. You got four more shots. Tony, Crizzo, Brandon, Bonack. You know, where the fuck do you go from there? And I wouldn't be surprised if Bonak gets knocked out of the top ten this year. Because last year he came in like uh eight or ninth, and he's been getting lower. Tony was eighth. Tony is just a guy, is just a he everything is perfect on him. You can't find a weakness on that bodybuilder, and he comes in full and hard, shredded, and everything symmetrically is like fucking perfect, man. It's unbelievable, you know.
SPEAKER_03And he's a nice guy, he's awesome too. Yeah, I've I've I don't know personally, but like, I mean, everything I've ever seen, he's a great dude.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I met him at the New York Pro, and he was he was just really cool. And let's not forget, guys, that didn't that aren't gonna be at the Olympia that broke the top 10 in the past. Good Vito and uh the guy from Brazil, Rafael Brandau, they're not gonna be there, be there, but they broke the top 10 in the past. Um, so it's just a whole different ball game when it comes to the Olympia, like you said, Dorian, it's like starting right at the bottom again, you know. But we've at the same time, we've seen guys start at the bottom and win the Olympia, like Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman. Ronnie Coleman's another guy, you know. Um Jay was, I think he was dead last this first Olympia, if I'm if I remember correctly. He was gonna give up. Yeah, that's right. Like, oh, I don't know if I should do this. Yeah, and but he still kept pushing and pushing the you know.
SPEAKER_03All right, Brandon Kirk. I tell you guys this if I ever qualify for the Olympia, I'm just gonna be I'm just gonna be happy to be there. That's my that's my first and main goal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the first time you get there, you're very happy to, but I I um I had Arkeem Williams on the show, Dorian, and he said something very nice about you. And um, and he said uh that Akeem's been to the Olympia a million times, right? Um and he said something really nice about you before I stuck my foot in my mouth. Remember that, Chris? Yeah, that was fucking horrible. Yeah, that was horrible. Well, I'll tell you what happened there, Dorian. But he actually said that you were they were going out for the finals and the pre-judging's over, and you were still warming up. You were doing push-ups and you were doing like whatever you were doing. And Akeem came over to you and said, Yo, what are you doing, man? It's it's over. It's we're doing the finals, it's it's a wrap. And you said, and you said, according to him, you said, dude, you've been here a million times. This is my first time. I just want to look the best I can, which is which is a really nice thing to say because he understood he forgot what it was like to be there for the first time, right? He kind of almost takes it for granted that because he, I think he placed his highest sixth in the Olympia at one point, you know, and then he realized, yeah, this is this is a real fucking moment for Dorian.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Do you remember that? Well, yeah, we're getting ready to go on stage. I'm doing some punch-ups. He's like, Man, what are you doing? I'm like, hey man, I'm not as big as you, and I gotta stand next to you. You've been here so many times. This is my first time being here, and I might not ever get a chance to stand up here again. So I'm gonna let I fucking can while I'm up there.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, yeah, and he respected that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh Keem's a good dude, man, even though I that's why I hate when when I hate to bring it up, but like I hate when Sean Ray is constantly telling him, Oh, don't go, you're not gonna be competitive. I'm like, I can't stand that shut up between him and muscle discord. Man, I can't stand the negativity. No, I can't stand it.
SPEAKER_01I don't I do not watch any of muscle discord at all anymore. No, I turned it off. I can't listen.
SPEAKER_03If anybody is on, if anybody's watching this who I've critiqued, I'm a huge fan. I I love bodybuilding, and I'm just I'm on here just to give my I guess professional opinion or whatever, which means fucking nothing. So just you know, it's it's neither never anything personal. Like, I mean, I'll tear myself apart on camera too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, uh, guys like us when we come on and we give our opinion and we creak, it's very, it's very difficult, especially, you know, you want these guys on as guests, but at the same time, um you know, you have to critique and be honest because the fans will see right through you being full of shit immediately. It's not even a joke. Um, and it's very difficult for the for them to kind of get past the idea that somebody is critiquing their body to what they believe, you know. We saw it with Charles this this this year, and it's I was I want to say some nice things really quick, too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah before so when uh Joe came to Vegas and we all worked out together and everything, he was posing and stuff, and I politely asked him like, Hey, can I could I give you a couple little things? He's like, Oh, yeah, absolutely. He was so open to like any little critique, he doesn't have to keep it, he's just very open to listen. I was helping him with a couple little things on his posing, and he was like, Oh, yeah, that I feel that better, it looks a little better. And same thing, like I talked to I I know they're rivals now or whatever, but I mean, I talk to Nick all the time, and before the Arnold, he would send me update pictures, and I'm like, Hey, make sure you you know you pull your stomach in the side trash. He was never mad. I was like, Are you okay with that? He's like, Dude, totally tell me because nobody's gonna be honest. You know, I'm always honest with my friends, yeah. You know, it's never like, oh, that looks like shit. No, hey, I'm just seeing this one little thing, do that really quick. And that's because he he didn't even have a coach at the time. He was just, you know, taking a little bit from other directions and everything. And I think that's really commendable that you have these guys at the top level still willing to listen to a guy at the bottom level, right? He's just being a good friend. That's it.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, honestly, and Dorian, we've talked about that. I actually said this in the past about you. I said, Dorian, I think, is gonna be a great coach when you retire from bodybuilding. Because it's always the guys that have to adjust the smallest thing to get better that become better coaches, and that's like that in every sport, you know, the guys that have to grind to really get to the top or get close to the top and have to learn and become students and do every and that's like that in every sport in basketball and baseball and football. You never have a top elite star that becomes they've tried and it never works. It's always the guy that's like the good athlete just becomes a great coach.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's never like if you didn't have like the perfect genetics, you had to really work for everything you have. Like, I mean, you learn all the tricks and everything, man. You know, so I I I think that's what makes really good coaches for sure.
SPEAKER_01I want to pivot a little bit, and I want uh both of your opinion, but I especially want Dorian's opinion. There's this classic physique guy that I follow, and he does these movements that I just don't understand. And I don't want to shit on him, but I want to know from two guys that know more than me what the hell he's doing. And I'm gonna pull him up and show you guys because I just don't understand what he's doing, right? He's a classic physique guy. I believe he won and he's going to the Olympia, so he's training for the Olympia now. And um let me see. Actually, I'm gonna uh share it right now. Okay, can you guys see this? Yeah, okay, so this is Ethan Gohari. I believe he lives in Australia, but he is uh Arabic, right? So, for example, look at this Dorian, right? What is this?
SPEAKER_00Is he gonna hammer curl this?
SPEAKER_01No, that's what he's doing.
SPEAKER_03I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what he's doing. So he's he's releasing so the lat goes across your and attaches up in the front of the bicep. A lot of times it'll get very tight, so you'll try to release it at the end point and at the attachment. Um, does it work? Maybe. Uh, but that's the idea behind it. It's kind of like imagine, like, I don't know if you have any nieces or daughters or anything. You hold the bottom of the hair and you comb it. It's like you're you're you're making sure that you're stretching the rest of it without pulling it off the off the bone. That's the best way I can describe it. I mean, it could work. Maybe open up the lats a little bit. Also, if the lats are tight, it makes it harder to do shoulder presses.
SPEAKER_01All right.
SPEAKER_03I don't make anybody do this, but that's why he's doing it.
SPEAKER_01What now? What about this one? Look at this one. Hold on. Now, this one I understand, right? Everybody understands this one, but this one.
SPEAKER_03Uh, scapular retraction and scapular protraction. Uh, I mean, not really muscle, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01Dorian, what do you think? What is he what is he doing here?
SPEAKER_00Wasting his fucking time.
SPEAKER_01That's what I wanted to say, but I'm not as educated as you two guys.
SPEAKER_00You know, some people who might have like little minor injuries. This guy might have a some type of glonocumeral injury or rotator cuff injury. I don't know about if this is the type of stuff that he needs to do to rehab it, cool. But if he's just doing it for whatever reason he can fathom, he's wasting his time.
SPEAKER_03So I'm reading this thing, he's talking about warming up. So, all right, so it's before his chest day. So I'm guessing, okay, from the movements that he did, he probably has pain in the side of his delt, which means it's probably he's probably had some infraspinatus tightness. I'm just guessing. So he probably has some problems with retracting the shoulder blades when he's when he's pressing. Also, when your lats are tight, it's sometimes hard to get those arms like externally rotated for your bench press. So if your elbows start flaring up and everything and you're putting your shoulders forward, you're gonna hurt, you're gonna feel pain here. It's your infraspinatus pulling in your rotator cuff. I mean, I I have an exercise like a sports uh training background. So I would make the young guys do this, but it was more to teach them how to retract their shoulder blades because if I was press and look like this, and they hurt their shoulders.
SPEAKER_01Is this you think this is really going to benefit them in the long run? Again, I don't know. I don't want to shit on the guy, he probably knows more a hell of a lot more than me.
SPEAKER_03Maybe. Yeah, it's it's a bit I I do I do cable external rotators before I do uh chess, so I can get a little pump. That's just me. 30 seconds.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so he kind of has this everywhere, you know what I mean? Uh what is all right? That one's not so bad.
SPEAKER_00Are you sure? Oh man. Why doesn't somebody do a dumbbell row? Why do they gotta take up a whole cable apparatus and a bench to do what they can do with a dumbbell row?
SPEAKER_03Sorry, Janicky doing it, that's why. What is it? What is it, Chris?
SPEAKER_00No, my same critique with him.
SPEAKER_03So it's like you you're basically doing a pull down in this seated position. But for me, like, okay, if I'm lifting the amount of weight I need to lift for my lats, I need to have someone hold my knees down. So I mean, like, yeah, you can activate the lat a little bit, but I I would still I don't I would still do it differently.
SPEAKER_00Everybody's trying to reinvent the wheel.
SPEAKER_01That's what it looks like to me. Uh I again I don't want to shit on them, but uh uh oh okay, let's see. All right, so explain to me what he's doing there.
SPEAKER_00Some foam rolling on his perispinals, and how does that help? Uh, you know, you it could probably increase like mechanical reception, proprio reception, uh, might be maybe as good as a warm-up before you get into your back exercises, mobility to kind of intersegmentally try to create some range of motion.
SPEAKER_03But I would I would never foam roll before I so I'm like the science-based guy, I guess, you know, and unless you see my workouts and you think I'm not, but whatever. I mean, I would never foam roll before I work out. I don't like beating up my muscles before I beat up my muscles. That's me personally.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I see what you're saying.
SPEAKER_03Afterwards, you know, if I want to massage it, I I just do that in the morning, crack my back, feels good. And what is he doing here? Stretching out his glute and his paraformis and his QL. Once again, I don't stretch before I work out. I would never elongate a muscle before I work out, but it's it's a good stretch if you can do it post-workout.
SPEAKER_00I like to stretch and I do a little bit of foam rolling before I do my leg days. I just helps me like get into it and get warmed up faster.
SPEAKER_03I I do what I call big boy yoga, where like if I'm doing squats, I'll I'll squat down, I'll stretch side to side a little bit, but it's not like long stretches. I just kind of like stretch my chest out so I can get under the barbell, you know, like you know, just get a little bit of mobility before I go.
SPEAKER_00This seems to be a dream mass builder right here.
SPEAKER_01What is what is going on here?
SPEAKER_00It looks like a quadratus lymborum or something.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. What do you think, Chris?
SPEAKER_03He obviously just tore his ACL and he's trying to get knee flexion back. Is that what he think it is? No, I'm I'm just making it up, but that's what I would do for people who just had an ACL tear or something, or any kind of um a knee injury. But I mean, I don't know, I don't have that much time to just spend the whole day in the gym like this, you know. So if you if you want to do it, if it I say this to people, if it makes you more confident to lift heavier, do whatever you want. You know, like if you if it's gonna make you train harder, like everyone wears like their straps and their knee sleeves, and they got a helmet on and shoulder pads to go do a squat, you know, like whatever you gotta do to make yourself feel better, like it's fine. I I I personally don't really use anything anymore. I think that was my time in the army because I couldn't have wrist straps and was carrying ammo cans and shit. I just don't care anymore.
SPEAKER_01Are we overthinking things?
SPEAKER_03Are we?
SPEAKER_01I don't know about we because obviously I show that to Lee, not on here. I sent it to him, and he's like, This guy's a what the but you know, Lee's old school, yeah, you know. Uh, so I wanted to talk to a couple of guys that you know, because you know, Dorian's a chiropractor, Chris really knows his shit because I don't want to shit on somebody if I'm just not educated enough, you know.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I'm shitting on him because I think it's funny and we're just joking around and riffing right now. I don't know him, but no, like I honestly like I could pick apart why he's probably doing these things, but and and I'll prescribe certain exercises to people if they have an injury or if they need some more mobility. Once again, what is it really physiologically doing? Probably not that much, but if it's gonna help you feel more confident, like for me, I do external rotation because I get a little pump and feel a little better in my bench press. Does it really do anything for my bench press? Absolutely not, right? But I feel better, so you know it's a lot of it's right here, you know. Yeah, you know, like I used to wear the same socks for every baseball game and feel better.
SPEAKER_01Okay, gotcha. What were you gonna say, Dorian?
SPEAKER_00You know what irks me? It's like this guy, he's a professional bodybuilder, right? Or professional classic physique competitor.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00He's very educated and he's very in tune with his body. He probably knows exactly what he needs to do to put himself at the top level, right? But the problem is he puts this shit on social media, then everybody sees this stuff, and the next thing you know, you got some guy using up the entire cable apparatus, and using them in the gym and they don't fucking need to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_03I agree too. Because, like, I mean, like, I know why you would do like okay, like that one he was what we're just talking about with the whole apparatus with the like I know why you would do it, but like you could also just do a pull down. Like, for me, like, I I try to teach everyone like the basics, like learn how to do a pull down, learn how to do a freaking pull-up, learn how to do a row, and then if you want to play with other things, play with it. And I've done all these exercises, and I still go back to those to the main ones that work.
SPEAKER_01The basic, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've been using the same exercise for like 20 years, right?
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_03I learned all the other bullshit, and then I just came back over here.
SPEAKER_01All right, very cool. Yeah, I just wanted to bring that up because it was confusing to me, but all right, gentlemen, I'm gonna let you guys go. It's been over an hour already. Thank you very much, Dorian. Thank you. It's always a pleasure. Chris, uh, thank you for coming out on such short notice, man. It really means a lot to me.
SPEAKER_03For sure, man.
SPEAKER_01And I'm gonna send you out uh that shirt. Uh, Dorian, I think I sent you one t-shirt and one jersey. Yeah, right? Uh and uh Chris never got a shirt, so I'm gonna send a shirt out for Chris. And um for him. What happened?
SPEAKER_00It'll make one big enough for him.
SPEAKER_01Uh, I get to send him a 4X, actually. I'm just a fat little hobbit. That's just me. But uh, thank you guys. Really appreciate you coming on, man. All the love and respect in the world. All right, gentlemen, we will be in touch, and I will see you guys soon. Thank you. See you guys. Later, fellas.
SPEAKER_00Later, guys.