Interview - Mark MacKinnon - BESM 4th Edition

Today I talk with the Creator of Big Eyes Small Mouth (BESM), Content Creator and founder of Dyskami Publishing about Anime, Tabletop Role-playing Games and the Tri-Stat System. You can find Mark MacKinnon and Dyskami Publishing via the links below.

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Adam 'Cosy' Powell

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Guest: Mark MacKinnon

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Transcript

Snyder’s Return : 0:28

Hello, and welcome to Snyder's return a tabletop role playing podcast. If you've ever fancied going super saiyan to bleach your tail beast, or wanted to track down the ghost in a shell of ought to be bought or even wanted to become the God of high school to thwart an attack on titan, or perhaps wanted a solid game mechanic to underpin your roleplay venture and big eyes, small mouth or bedroom should be your go to today our chat with the creator and writer Mark McKinnon. Mark, welcome to the show.

Mark MacKinnon : 0:56

Thanks so much for having me on.

Snyder’s Return : 0:57

It's an absolute pleasure. Well, before we get into what resumes and why people should go out and get it. Can we learn a little bit more about yourself and how you're going to tabletop role playing games, please?

Mark MacKinnon : 1:11

Yeah, sure. Well, like most people, I started with the old ad and or dungeons of dragons box set the the original red one, and kind of moved up from there that was in grade seven when I started playing. And it just captured my attention at that time. So eventually getting into more and more games and moving on to Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. And that was my go to for quite a while until in 91, I came across the amber diceless role playing game that fake press came out with, and it just blew me away. I mean, first of all, it was my first licenced game that I came across, based on the books by Rogers allows me but then to have a diceless role playing system just completely changed how I viewed role playing and turn it much more into a narrative structure than full game and so that became how I preferred roles. Playing now was a very rules light system. So fast forward on into my university years and I was into anime at the time and I thought oh, well there's no game out there that does what I wanted to do which was create I wanted to play Ron mo one half that was my kind of my go to favourite anime at the time in 97. And so when I looked around, and I didn't really see anything that I wanted, and I thought, well, I'll just create something and I'll take the inspiration from Amber diceless to make something rules light and does what I want it to do because it wasn't d&d and, and vampire and nothing else kind of did what I wanted, so created the game. But then as during the creation process, I realised I could expand it out to do more than just a homebrew ranma one half game. And that's when I started added in other elements that turned it into a multi genre universal game. And from there I thought, well, if it then all this work, why don't I just print a few copies and publish it and see what happens and then they get nominated for an origins award which kind of blew me away for the best RPG you The years that was 997 and that formed the company and then from there it went on to either, you know, second and third and now fourth edition of besam. As well as the system itself morphed into other games. We did a superhero game and we did a lot of licenced products at the time. So that was kind of the origins of of how betsson came along. It all came down to the to the love of slaying orcs and Cobalts back with the the original box set of d&d.

Snyder’s Return : 3:25

All right, well, you mentioned though it's grown from its first iteration into its current version. Is this sort of, well, we'll go into more but the TriStar system so again, you get into sort of mind body and soul. That will make more it'll be more comedic a bit later when I listen back to it. But what is present and how does someone get into a play present?

Unknown Speaker : 3:50

Yeah, well, at any time, of course, someone wants to play a new role playing game, regardless of the game unless it's just a couple pages long and really relies on there. If you don't have someone introducing you to a game, it's very difficult to pick up a rulebook and learn it, especially the rule books now, which are 234 hundred pages on some of them. So certainly people can pick up any game and just starting to do it and that's Besson was designed to be on the lighter side. The character creation options can take a little bit longer, a little bit more in depth because it is a universal system. It is a multi genre system and it's point based so I wanted to create besam so that can handle anything from a slice of life High School romantic comedy, where no one has any abilities and you're just playing regular high school kids up to galactic adventures where you can blow up planets and your giant spaceships or you know, fire massive Super Saiyan blast from your hands to to take out an incredible amount of stuff. And so, to have a game that broad involves an awful lot of optional and customization that had to go into the came. So picking up bass for the first time, if you're not used to a point based system, if you're not used to a buying system, if you come from D and D, which is, you know, a levelling based system, it can be a little daunting. But if anyone shows you the game, you'll soon discover with Bessemer in particular, that once you start playing, it's the system fades into the background, it really is a tool to help you tell stories, as opposed to the game is the thing as it is in many other games. And so there there are sessions that can go by where you're hardly rolling any dice whatsoever. And, and it's all about the storytelling. And so the best way to get in the best by far is to have someone introduce it to you as with any role playing game, but for those people who are going in alone, if they're a call familiar with role playing, then certainly connecting to a lot of the online resources a fan community that we have for besam is a great way to start. We have discord and Facebook, and that really helps a lot of people understand the nuances of the Bassam system.

Snyder’s Return : 5:57

All right, so if someone has listened to this show, font and things, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to go and find it. I'm going to go and try out, where can they find it? Where can they find you? And if you find anything that that helps introduce new players and gems into the system.

Unknown Speaker : 6:12

Yeah, absolutely. So our company website, disk ami.ca, that's dyskm.ca. So that contains links to all of our social media pages, whether it's discord or Facebook, Twitter, and whatnot. So that's a great place to start because at the launching point from there, in addition, on Drive Thru RPG, which is the One Stop most popular, PDF or digital version of role playing games, you can get on that site, we have a free 16 page primer that people can download, which is a complete version of the game in terms of it tells you how your stats work, your abilities that you can do how the dice roll, and gives you the framework that you need to that you could get started with it. But of course, there's there's very little content and 16 pages, but it does give you everything need in order to start the game and if someone downloads a free primer takes a look at it, it gets an idea if it's kind of the type of game that they can get into, then it's a great way to kind of try it out before you download and pay for the core rulebook on Drive Thru.

Snyder’s Return : 7:15

Alright, so if someone picks up the the primer, and again shows it to their gaming group, and everyone's excited, but some of them aren't as keen on the anime side of things, is there something available for the rule system that can be taken forward? That doesn't have that bent to it?

Unknown Speaker : 7:35

Yeah, we often get that comment specifically amongst our best and fans where they say that, you know, while you're building this as a role playing game for anime and manga, the reality is it's just a great system that can be used for anything and we agree Of course, but a lot of the the anime feel was baked in at the very beginning of the game, like for example, the idea of the tristate system or body, mind and soul of the three main attribute So you have like, like strength dexterity constitution How would be in say Dungeons and Dragons? Well, we just use body, mind and soul and aspects. Consider the kind of the balance of the self. So someone who wants to be really good at combat needs to be good at their body, mind and soul because of course, it's not about being super strong and animate, there's certainly characters that picture the the tiny old grandfather who's a martial arts master, it's not because he's strong, it's because he has kind of a complete self at that point, which is somewhat of an Eastern philosophy rather than a Western philosophy. So the origins of the tristesse certainly were designed with anime and manga in mind, but as a universal point by system it can be used for any game that's not anime. So I've run many games that I don't even see the anime characters on my head. If I'm running a sci fi adventure, it might be pattern F of Star Wars or Firefly or something along those lines. That's what I'm seeing whenever I'm playing trying it. Other people may see anime if they want to. But it's the tri state system is a universal system. But we wanted to have more than just a universal system being sold in isolation. And we thought the best way to do it is to keep the the anime feel to it and add on the anime multiverse which is a kind of a genre hopping dimension spanning anime verse that kind of takes all the different tropes of many different genre and puts them into into a single universe that people can kind of pop between dimensions if they want to use that aspect of the game. Other people of course, just prefer staying in one setting, whether it's your fantasy setting or a sci fi setting, but all of this wraps up to is yes besam as the system of the choice that system can be used for non anime games, but it was designed with anime in mind.

Snyder’s Return : 9:53

So you heard the sort of the core set the core rule set for bism the primer and I believe you have a another version of the rules more akin to sort the streamlined version that we've just been speaking about.

Unknown Speaker : 10:09

That's right. And that's called besam. naked and naked being a stripped down version of the rules, kind of a little bit of a fun play on words there. And that kind of stem from the decision to that really comes from when we're doing fourth edition. I wanted to create a one game for everyone. And of course, you're ultimately going to fail if you try to please absolutely everyone with a publication. When we go back to first edition besam. It was a very, very rules like game extremely small and didn't have a lot of details and relied on a lot of narrative addition from the game master and the players. And then as the system went forward over the years, it got more and more complex and broaden and lots of different options became much more robust system. And it is it's a great system for that level of completeness and robustness. It's very comprehensive, but not everyone wants that. Some people like the simple system. And so when we came up with a fourth edition, it's a 350 page, you know, fairly meaty book. But that's a naked takes all the content from the best core book, and then strips it down to its core elements. So it's 100% compatible with the main game. That's some naked, that's some core, same game. But unlike 350 pages, only 144 pages, and we managed to take out a lot of the, the more fluff writing, I guess, the more explanatory and handholding that we did in the core Bassam, and just brought it down to its essential elements, which is completely playable, but it does bring it more to a narrative aspect. So rather than detailing every particular ability that your character can do in core besam, will do a little bit more hand waving in naked, still compatible and if you created a character in one, you can use it in the other but it does allow us to have a more rules, light version, people that don't want something that's quite as robust and quite as complex, and so that's why when we said let's create a game for everyone, we can't create one game for everyone. But we could create two games for everyone one for the rules, light players and one for the more crunchy, comprehensive players. In the end, they're using the same game and they might not even realise that we actually are creating one game for everyone in two different versions.

Snyder’s Return : 12:22

All right, well, you mentioned it a couple of times about the mechanics and the trisect system and rolling dice, how do dice work in Belgium and sort of the naked version of the game?

Unknown Speaker : 12:35

Yeah, it's a pretty simple system. And we work with a bell curve to six sided dice, rather than say, just a D 20, a linear type system. So it's a 2d six roll, and then you're either going to be adding on your stats, or adding on your skills, and you're trying to meet a target number, or you're going to be having an oppositional role and so it's either I'm using dice plus stat plus versus 20 or 25, or whatever that number is, or I'm rolling my dice, adding up the total value, do your dice add up your total value if we're opposing each other and whoever gets the highest value win. So for people in the, the RPG part lands, it would certainly be a a roll Hi, some system that derives from the point base rather than the levelling basis.

Snyder’s Return : 13:23

All right, so people hopefully sound intrigued and definitely want to go out and and pick the the core rules up. Is there anything else out there that supports the core rules, maybe for character creation or an adventure that they could sort of lean into without having to sort of generate their own straight off the off the cuff?

Unknown Speaker : 13:44

Yeah, and when we did the Kickstarter last year, of course, we come from a history of doing second edition, a third edition, that we know that people want stuff pre made for them, because while it's easy to, or maybe not easy, but while it's certainly possible to create anything you want, invest them does take time to create all sorts of NPCs and monsters and adventures and whatnot. So when we did the Kickstarter last year, what we did is we created not just a Kickstarter for the main book, but also a suite of products, NPC books, the games, the GM screen, which has an adventure in it a standalone adventure, and a character folio, which is kind of like an expanded character sheet. And we did all this with the first Kickstarter to launch it all to kind of together at once. So when someone picks up the game, they want to get running right away, the resources are there. So it's a great starting point. Since then, we opened up the creator content programme on Drive Thru RPG, which is called the tristate Emporium and this is a way for people to create their own best materials and sell it or give it away as they want on Drive Thru. And they collect revenue from that if they sell it, they can actually earn money on stuff that they create. And we've had books on weapons. We've had adventures NPC books, and this creates even more content that, you know, as a small company, we can only do so much. And this allows the community to feed into itself and provide other fans with these types of materials. So that's where we are currently as of as of today. So we're still shipping out the core books of the main game, it's available through drive through on the PDF version digital, it's ready. But we're still just waiting for the ships to arrive with the Product to Ship the Kickstarters and get the the core books into the retail stores. But later on this fall, we're going to be running another Kickstarter, which is a whole new round of books, including the kind of the showcase piece is called besom options. And this is a lot of the optional expanded and enhanced rules that we didn't want in the core game because we wanted to keep the core game simple and straightforward and streamlined. But we know there's so much robustness that this system has and so besam extras is a companion book that people can use into their game to give even more options and then on top of that Just like the first Kickstarter when we did seven products, we're going to be doing six products in the second Kickstarter, which contains, you know, a dice tower, for example. So you can have something to roll your dice on and dice trays. We have an NPC book, we have ventures we have different NPC book. And so what we're doing is giving a lot of different resources kind of all at once. We do it through funded through Kickstarter. And then we're going to be pumping it out to the retail stores and through drive thru as well. So more than any other version of besam there's going to be more accessible, jump in material for the best and fourth edition line than we've ever had before and really looking forward to seeing that come out by the end of 2020. There's going to be a wealth of best products available for gamers everywhere.

Snyder’s Return : 16:43

Exciting times for them and for yourself, which is brilliant to hear. So we mentioned a little earlier or you mentioned you know you enjoyed ranma one half and an extensive bosoms or multiverse as it were what excites you to play as either a gym or a player in in one of these multiverses Do you have a favoured sort of scheme to play?

Unknown Speaker : 17:11

Yeah, I think what what I really like is the diversity that comes from a game and so you know, when I kind of cut my teeth on Dungeons and Dragons, I mean certainly it's it's great where I'm an orchid or a dwarf and you're an elf, or maybe you're a halfling. And then we have wizards and fighters, in that kind of diversities is really good within the fantasy setting. But even stepping one step larger science fiction settings can often provide even more because if you think it's not just like a single plan, you can have a fantasy planet and you can have a high tech planet in the same science fiction setting and so if I was to say my go to that I really enjoy are these spaceship be there bounty hunters or smugglers or some aspect where you have a ship and everyone's on the crew is a member of the ship. Think Cowboy Bebop or Firefly for example. On enemy reference, and you can have many different types of races, many different types of occupations. And you can bring in a travelling aspect. So on one adventure, I might be in a low tech environment, where there's a feudal system, and we land our ship, we do an adventure, whatever we need to do. And then we jump on the ship. And we go to this super high tech world where there's a eyes that have gone out of control, and they're taking over the cities. And I think that type of setting that we have, within the same universe kind of mimics a multi genre, multi dimensional game, because when you have a spaceship and you can go between planets, just about anything is possible. So I think that's kind of my, my go to that I find if I feel like I want to play fantasy for a bit, then we can just go to a fantasy plan and you can play there for months if you want. And then you can change jobs you can get westerns involved and get horror involved in it's just a great way to open up so many different role playing options, just using a single setting which is, you know, the galaxy

Snyder’s Return : 19:00

Let's, it sort of sets my mind racing about potential place scenarios and some of the ones you've mentioned. Now I definitely think I'll steal for myself. But moving away from them slightly. Why else is it that discovery does? Um, what can we expect if we go to your store? For example, what what else do you produce?

Unknown Speaker : 19:24

Yeah, so we first started out with Bassam, or with disgust me, I didn't know I'd be getting in the bathroom right away, disc ami was formed to do tabletop board games. So we published a few of those in the past that are now out of print. But most recently, we acquired the Sailor Moon crystal licence, which is a retelling of the original 90s Sailor Moon series, while they read it as crystal, and so it's a really great show. So we got the licence to do that. And so we have currently two games that are available a dice rolling game, which is kind of a dice combat game as well as a blast. style game. And then we have another one suffer approval right now we're hoping to get approval sometimes very shortly. And that's going to be a party style game. And so we still do tabletop, board slash party slash dice games. In addition to role playing right now we focused on Sailor Moon. In the past year, our main focus has been obviously, relaunching besam. And the role playing aspect is is kind of near and dear to my heart, because that's kind of how I got into the first time I got into a publishing company with a previous company was through role playing. And we almost exclusively did that. When discovery formed it back in 2013. It was for tabletop board games, because that was kind of where I thought the Mark was going at the time. But my love for role playing kind of pulled me back in and that gave us an opportunity to do a another edition of besam. So right now, that's kind of the main focus but in 2021, we are also going to be expanding out the tri state system line and getting into the new version of silver and sentinels, which was our superhero game that used the the best home system trisect system, we did that in the early 2000s. And now 20 years later, the world has advanced 20 years. And so we're doing a new version of that and that we, if everything goes well, we have people working on it now and it's going to be out in 2021

Snyder’s Return : 21:14

exciting. No superheroes is always a fan favourite across many different walks of life. So it's something I'll definitely be well, I'd like to have you back on the show to discuss it once it comes to fruition if if you'd be willing to join me again.

Unknown Speaker : 21:30

Yeah, no, I certainly love to and certainly with with superheroes, everyone kind of holds it up as the almost the gold standard for systems when it comes to their robustness because everything is in superheroes there's there's not a single power that you'll find in a superhero comic or role playing game that isn't already in some other either fantasy genre, science fiction genre. And so in order to have a system that can handle the incredibly wide range of superhero powers, then that really should shows how robust the system is. And that's the core elements of SM. And so while the Bassam system is going to be slightly altered and expanded a little bit for superheroes, because it is a slightly bigger version than besam the core robustness of the system that you that people like and Bassam that's what we're presenting in silver eight sentinels the new addition of that and and there are so many point based superhero games it really is the the go to test system to see how complex how complete and comprehensive can a system be. Look at the superhero games out there and they'll tell you,

Snyder’s Return : 22:35

Bali It sounds like you're going to be kept incredibly busy. So what is it that you do away from tabletop sort of role playing and or game creation? How do you unwind? How do you feel your time away from this sort of? endeavour?

Unknown Speaker : 22:53

Well, that's a great question is obviously in the past few months. It's changed a lot with the global pandemic. There's a lot there's a lot of time Getting in my house now and physical distancing away from people it's obviously a very stressful time for everything or everyone worldwide. So I don't have as as robust perhaps as a social life as I used to have at this point because you know, weekly in here in Canada, where I'm from, we still have a lot of mandates to to stay in small groups and generally keep your mass on and keep away from people. So, right now, I've been doing a lot of Netflix watching probably like everyone else, and give me a chance to really break into a lot of the RPG writing that I'm doing right now. I'm, I'm probably almost six months to a year ahead of where I thought I'd be a year ago because I've had so much more time to work on this. But my, when I say my day job, so to speak, is actually mama politician here in the city of well, former city councillor and so I've been doing politics for the past six years, and I just love it. It's really quite enjoyable. Yes, I I love role playing and I love tabletop gaming, but I've always approached to scammy as more of a of a side project, something that It's a business, but it's a hobby as well, as opposed to the profession of being a full time or a fully engaged politician is really where I'm trying to spend a lot of my time now. Although again, with COVID, it's, you know, kind of pulled back on some of the duties that we have is City Council, because we're not going to the business openings that used to be and we're not having in face meetings, a lot of the stuff we're doing is over video conferencing now. So yeah, I do that. And then of course, family, so I'm married and have kids. And so we play games, and we try to get out, enjoy yourself as much as we can and hope that, you know, come the fall, we're not going to see a huge resurgence in a second wave of pandemic problems, that we can actually get a little bit more normality back to our routines. So it's kind of a little bit of this a little bit of that I have a number of different hats. I'm a I'm a real estate broker and I do marketing for different people. So I try to keep busy with with what I do.

Snyder’s Return : 24:54

Yeah, it sounds like you keep very busy. You mentioned there Netflix and ballgames. Why is it you watch on Netflix? And what sort of stuff is sort of helped inspire you for bism?

Unknown Speaker : 25:06

Well, I mean, certainly Netflix is just an example. It's also Crunchyroll over I don't know if they have Crunchyroll worldwide, but certainly in Canada in the US, it's it's pretty big here. And we do a lot of that type of programming like cultural being specifically anime. And so watch a lot of that and Amazon Prime and whatnot. So I find the best way to beat be inspired for watching or writing an anime role playing games obviously watch a lot of anime. But not all inspiration just comes from animate source itself. When you think of great movies, live action movies or books, I do a lot of listening to audiobooks that cover the fantasy and science fiction realms. A lot of it can be adapted and brought into an anime setting. And so I find just getting exposed to great authors, great movie production and writers whether it's a Miyazaki or it's something a little more Current and mainstream like, like Attack on Titan or bird perhaps fairy tale or or re zero any of those sort on Art Online shows. watching anime is a great way for me to get the ideas not not that you're you don't obviously don't wanna poach ideas directly but inspires a creative juices of thinking, Oh, I never really thought of that way to a producer to approach in an SSI show or I never thought of that application of magic in a fantasy realm. That's a really interesting way to bring up a change and so you know, it's it's interesting I think, watching TV is it's part of my job but it but it really is at this point. So you know, it's not just all entertainment, I take it with a with a lens as well. And then the finally of course, as well, watching things is helpful. It's also great to play games and playing board games has given me ideas for role playing aspects, in terms of the genre and the style and the setting any and even the rules. So Just as long as you're you're constantly getting exposed to great ideas by great creators, it'll make you a better creator.

Snyder’s Return : 27:07

Yes. sage advice? I would I would definitely take that on board. And definitely one I've heard from a few of the other content creators that you have to absorb content to create content as it were. And so sort of absorbing all this content and and helping gms sort of put what they have in their mind's eye to their plays. Do you have a sort of advice you would give a new GM as they approach?

Unknown Speaker : 27:38

Well, that's a that's a really great question. I would say certainly, at this point, if you're brand new to besam, and you kind of want to get your best foot forward, it's engaged in the community online that's already experienced with bessell. We regularly see people who are new to besam they just bought the copy of a drive thru or they just went to Kickstarter. And obviously supportive there. And then they come on to our discord and they ask questions or forums or Facebook pages. And the community is is such a great resource. These are our number one fans. These are the people who are most engaged in the system. And they can bring ideas and presentations and give suggestions that any one person might not be able to do. But you're tapping into dozens or hundreds of people's that can bring a unique perspective to the questions that you're posing. And I would say there's no better way to get started than that exposure to the community. That specimen obviously, it's not a d&d community. It's not a world of darkness community. It's not that large, but it is very dedicated and very helpful and extremely welcoming. So that would obviously be the first step. Of course, the second step, if you can do it is try being a player and there's right now obviously, a lot of people aren't playing face to face anymore. And a lot of stuff is happening online during the pandemic, and so on. Looking out on role 20? Or on the discord server that we have, and going there and finding out? Are there any games being run? And can people jump in I mean, I've played in a couple of games that just fans have been running and I jump in, I play a session. And it's a great way to get exposed to that. If you're not sure really how besam is run, find someone that knows what they're doing and go from there. And that's, that's, of course, advice. That's not just for best ms for any game, I think, but particularly the best one because it's, it's obviously much smaller. And it's been out of the mind for you know, over a dozen years. For instance, the third edition was published so it's not as an active community. So relying on what's out there on the internet is a great way to get involved.

Snyder’s Return : 29:43

All right, well, coming away from the GM screen as it were, and sort of focusing down on you as a content creator or a writer. If someone wants to support the game through the TriStar Emporium, for example, what advice or what system have you used at all Get your content creation juices flowing to allow you to put pen to paper.

Unknown Speaker : 30:07

Well, yeah, it's over the years. I mean, I find many different game systems can give you kind of an idea what's going on out there. And then, of course, if you're looking at creating content for fans, then it's a good idea to know well, what else was popular that selling to other fans? So if you were to look at just just take the storytellers fault, or the the dungeon Master's guild that's on Drive Thru, and look at some of the top products, that'll give you an idea of what fans are expecting, if you're going to produce content, not just for yourself, but for other people. Yes, you want to make something that that makes you happy and that you're satisfied with, but it also needs to be somewhat commercially viable and produce material that people are looking for. So there's no sense in doing something that you're passionate about, if you're trying to get it out to the community if no one else cares about that. And so a great way is just to go and browse around purchase some products and just get an idea of, of what's going to be popular with other people. I mean, of course, I find reading and playing some of the more popular RPGs over the years is obviously a great way to get ideas flowing. But if you were to look at kind of the structure and format and the way RPG is represented 20 or 30 years ago, I mean, it's not the same as it is now. So paying attention to modern products and how those are put together is a great way if you're going to be producing your own content to make sure you understand what's popular now, that obviously same with anime anime today is not the same as the 80s and 90s anime that you know, I really appreciate it when I was first starting to do besam those shows aren't the same as they used to be there's definitely been a shift in terms of how our shows are created. So I would say you know, go with the modern and then start working back from there.

Snyder’s Return : 31:51

That's great advice and I hope if there is people are then looking to pick up that pen or or start their keyboard and create content. now's a good time with the the advice, you've given their market. It's absolutely the prime time to get into the content creation. Sort of business may be the wrong word passion, I think is fair from those people such as yourself that I've spoken to.

Unknown Speaker : 32:17

Yeah. And people, people are looking for stuff online and people are looking for role playing products. There's a lot of worldwide distancing going on. And people a lot of stuff are turning on online that they're having to meet people through either zoom or Google Hangouts or something like that. And so there's people have often have time to create because they're not as they're not out all the time. They're maybe not as socially active and people have time to consume. And so I'd say right now is a fantastic time for people to get into doing this content creation. Absolutely. Well,

Snyder’s Return : 32:52

let's reinforce the content you've created. Would you like to remind everybody where it is they can find bezel and how they can support you? When your community

Unknown Speaker : 33:03

Oh, thank you. So the best place to start if if you just did a search for BDSM, or big eyes, small mouth and just did a Google search for that you you'd have our website would show up, Facebook pages show up. So you can start with the Google search, you can go to our website directly discovery.ca D YSK m.ca. And that will have links from there to all the different places. And if you go to drive thru RPG COMM And you do a search for either Bessemer big eyes, small mouth, then all the products that are currently available for sale on digitally available for sale would show up on our website. We have the products available for pre order for the physical products that will be available sometime in the next month to two months, depending on when the boats arrive and clears through customs and whatnot. So if you mean the internet is your friend, anytime I wonder about a particular company or a particular game, I just type something into Google and usually the first few hits are going to lead you to those main products and so we'd love to have more customers. On board to make the community larger is the larger the bedroom community, the more number of people are playing and running games. It just benefits everyone else in that community as well.

Snyder’s Return : 34:11

Absolutely. And I will make sure there are links to as as much of your content as I can troll the internet for all. Should we say the appropriate content on the internet will be in the description below this podcast. So is there anything you want to to talk about anything we've not touched on yet?

Unknown Speaker : 34:33

Well, I guess just talking about the resurgence of this, this new game that I mentioned, it's been over a dozen years since the last edition and I'm hoping people will give it a chance. The fourth edition is heavily based on previous editions and it's not a brand new game the way you know. Safe dungeon dragons when they did advanced under the dragons versus basic it's not quite that different is an iteration but it is this is by far the best version of The anime role playing game that we've had, it's the most complete, it's the most comprehensive, the best physical presentation of a book. I'm really happy with how it turned out. So I'm hoping everyone will give it a shot. If you're looking for a robust multi genre game, a universal game that can handle anything you want to throw at it, then yeah, give it a chance, pick it up, download the primer, give it a read. If it's something that interests you. Maybe you want to pick up a digital copy, maybe you want to preorder a physical copy, and we'd love to have you in the fandom.

Snyder’s Return : 35:29

Absolutely. And I will be joining that fandom shortly. Mark, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you for finding some time to speak to me. I know. You've told us just how busy you are. So I appreciate you finding just a bit of time to speak to me today.

Unknown Speaker : 35:45

That's it's absolutely My pleasure. And thank you so much for having me on. I look forward to coming back again. Either when we we produce the next game or if we're doing some really great expansion for Bassam. Yeah. Let's let's make sure we keep in touch and come back on Another time. Absolutely. I'll keep in contact as the Kickstarter rolls round. Well, thank you and yeah, I look forward to seeing everyone in this fall when we get that Kickstarter up and running. Keep on on our socials and you'll find out when it's running.

Snyder’s Return : 36:12

Absolutely. Well, thanks for your time mark. Thank you. Thanks for listening. If you want to hear more of us or to get in contact with us, you can find us on Twitter at Return Snyder. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and also if you wish to support the channel on patreon@patreon.com slash nice return. music and sound effects provided for this episode are from epidemic sounds.com Transcribed by https://otter.ai