Hello, and welcome to snows return a tabletop role playing podcast. My guest today we're not casting her light on social media can be found in the far hills on the sarcos priming adventures at the spine of the world, tormenting groups in water deep or just hoping will be spirited away our eyes unclouded. It's my pleasure to introduce writer, editor and sometimes Squirrel Girl, Sadie Lowry. Sad Welcome to the show.
Sadie Lowry:Thank you for having me.
Snyders Return:It's an absolute pleasure. Thank you for agreeing to speak with me. So before we go into your, your many projects and your your work, is it possible to get a bit of background about yourself how you got into tabletop role playing games first, please. Yeah,
Sadie Lowry:absolutely. So I, I am an English major with an editing minor. So writing editing that has always sort of been in my wheelhouse. I I've always been writing something, whether that be unfinished novels, or text adventure games, or short stories or poetry, I just I always grew up writing. So I worked and and worked currently as an editor for a book publisher. And it was around last December, that I it was December 2019, that I? Well, no, it would have been earlier than that. So October, I guess, October November 2019. That I found Ashley Warren's RPG Writers Workshop. And it seemed like a new challenge. And I wanted to give it a shot. So I dragged my best friend Amber litke, into writing, doing it with me. And it's, it's been wild ever since I released a darkness from the stars met a tonne of wonderful people in the following months. And things have really snowballed from there.
Snyders Return:So you didn't have a, you weren't playing tabletop role playing games. In your youth. This is something you sort of picked up and just found as a writing challenge or
Sadie Lowry:so I have been playing. Let's see. I would have started that. I would say I started playing tabletop games. Probably about five years ago, I was pulled into a d&d campaign. And it was I was playing d&d, I was actually running d&d as a DM before I started writing. So I have a campaign that's been going on for about two years. DND five years, the only thing I ever really tried, because I I was completely separated from the world aside from these two campaigns until I started writing, it's it's been so interesting, in this last year, just to realise how much else is out there because d&d, so saturated into our culture, and I've always been a nerd and like, my favourite, my favourite video games were RPGs. And I love board games, and I love you know, movies. And so it's it was, it's interesting to me how long I sort of gravitated around the sphere without really touching a toe into it until five years ago, and it honestly feels like home. It feels like coming home just like ah, why wasn't a year my entire life.
Snyders Return:It's fair. It's fair. So you mentioned though, a couple of things that you've been doing in this or as you see around the outside in the periphery of, of the tabletop role playing game, so it was what what you mentioned RPGs so what videos games have you been playing? Or are you playing in? And the board games? What sort of board games are you? Do you enjoy playing?
Sadie Lowry:Well, my husband my husband, it's like pulling teeth. He tries to get me to play Arkham Horror with him I I play that one most frequently. And that is to my complete that tournament. But I'll try any board game there was this one. I can't remember what it's called now. But I fell in with a group of an apartment full of guys during college. They sort of adopted me as their their little nerd friend from an apartment building over and they had so many board games like Settlers of Catan and that one with the railroad tracks
Unknown:too. You know what I'm talking about?
Snyders Return:tickets are riders that want
Sadie Lowry:to get to ride. Yeah. So Settlers of Catan Ticket to Ride. There's this Japanese Zen one that's really lovely that I'm trying to remember the name of it might be Shikoku. No tokaido tokaido
Snyders Return:tried. Oh, yeah, another one. You mean No.
Sadie Lowry:Yeah. So, for me, board games is really whatever anyone puts in front of me. I will play it. Video games I'm more active in Mass Effect. Dragon Age are two big staples, Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild. Lately, I've been playing a lot of Hades. I'm finally going through Fire Emblem three houses. I'm doing the blue lions route and trying to finally get that completed. I like really, oh, Final Fantasy 14 the MMO. I love the shadowbringers expansion of that. I really like RPGs just I love choice driven, story driven, character driven narrative driven. Like, give me a game like that. And I will dig my hands into it.
Snyders Return:Oh, absolutely. And you've mentioned that some some fantastic games. Absolutely. Great choice. I totally respect your your gaming selection there.
Sadie Lowry:Oh, persona. persona two. I love the Persona series. Have you played?
Snyders Return:I have seen I have not played unfortunately, as yet.
Sadie Lowry:Okay, the new one. So four is generally the one everyone loves. But I also have a deep soft spot for five. So if you have the chance, I recommend giving it a whirl. It's good.
Snyders Return:So I've heard so I have heard you're not the first person to have total that I have heard that from recently. So if I get the chance, amongst everything else that's going on, I will certainly give that a try. You so with all of these sort of interest likes and references, we find these sort of slide into the world of of tabletop role playing games in dungeons and dragons. And tell us if you would about the first project you you worked on wrote following the the RPG Writers Workshop experience.
Sadie Lowry:Sure. So the first one following that. So the one I wrote in the workshop, or the one I wrote after
Snyders Return:a short timeline, I would let you tell it how you
Sadie Lowry:sure. The first two things I published the first one was in the workshop. And it was it was a darkness from the stars. And that was an adventure set in everon. In within the the observatory. It was it's interesting, I had a very shallow surface level understanding of Oberon at the time. And so you can sort of see me blending more, not traditional fantasy, I don't want to imply that everyone isn't traditional, but more. You know, it's got a dragon in it. And it's it's very mystical, which ever on everyone can be much more pulpy and
Snyders Return:high fantasy and pulp fantasy.
Sadie Lowry:Yeah, exactly. So I published that. By the time we got to the deathless skies of Sire, I think I had a better understanding, definitely a baranda setting and so that's an airship adventure that takes place in in over the morn land. And so that was that one is infinitely better if you're going to read either of those. Please go for that. Let's skies of sire. That one is much more. Laura friendly. But so that would be the first and that one was published in conjunction or published with Amber lucky as my co writer. So it gets an extra level of polish because it had two heads rather than one. But so I think I published we did Detlef skies of sire at we were aiming for February 30 is like amber was determined that we were going to publish on Leap Day at February 30. come hell or high water. So that was just two and a half months after I published a darkness from the stars. There was a pretty short timeline. But I you can clearly see kind of the if you go get both and you look at them, you can clearly see how much better we progressed from first adventure writers to second adventure writers and I try to get better with everything I write.
Snyders Return:progression is an important part of learning. So yeah, yeah. So you mentioned that those two adventures beauchesne everyone, is that the sort of setting that attracts you the most? Or is that just what caught your eye at the time?
Sadie Lowry:It's what caught my eye at the time. Yeah, I would love to actually the chance to For more settings in the upcoming, like, what's what's nice about everyone is it has such a passionate community, which really brings me back to publishing in it over and over again, because the community is just so engaged, they love to talk about everon. They love to read up on adventures and talk about them. And so, like, I feel very connected to them. I don't know if I would feel the same. If I were to go publish in, you know, ravenloft I don't feel like I would be drawn into quite quite a friendly bubble, if that makes sense. So I wouldn't say that aesthetically, and narratively ebron is my favourite thing to publish in, I would say that the community makes it My favourite community to publish for because they're just so so so wonderful. I I've published, you know, I've done water deep, I've done you know, the zentrum I've done completely setting neutral things that I've done ever on. And I like everything I've published and I I have no setting that I'm completely velcroed to but the community in Hebron makes it so hard to publish for them because they're so wonderful.
Snyders Return:Yeah, no, I can I can respect that. I I enjoy Oberon as a setting as well. So I'm, I'm one of the one of the community you mentioned, that absolutely, suddenly fires my imagination that place so
Sadie Lowry:people like you're the ones that keep us coming back, you know.
Snyders Return:And we appreciate all the all the products you put out. But you mentioned there a couple of other things. So what was it like moving away from Oberon and to somewhere, like dark hold, for example?
Sadie Lowry:intimidating, but, but a nice challenge. It was so after ebron Let's see, what was the timeline for that. So after ebron would have been encounters in the Savage underdark and the the charity project, wisdom under fire, so those were both of it, you know, very setting neutral. And so and then we could be adventurous domestic Handbook, which was a supplement. So for a while, I was doing nothing and nothing tied to a setting in when Anthony Joyce approached me to do dark hold. I it was it was very intimidating, because I mean, the zentrum that I don't know if there's anything. I mean, there are but the zentrum you hear that, and that's, you know, that's one of the hearts of DND. Like, you hear this enter realm, and you know what it is, and you've heard of them, and, and I knew that there was so much history there, but that. So it was intimidating, but it was a fun challenge. It was really fascinating to go back and read all the lore to see how my team members were adapting the lore for today, expanding on it, adding to it, tweaking it, giving it new life, and being a part of that was absolutely fascinating to me. We had, it was so fun to one of the first things they did was they went Satie, you know, we want you to bring one of the old female characters and give her new life. So go, go pick one, go, you know, go look at who who's out there and you have complete free rein with that. So I came back probably with a list of 10 names. And I was like, you know, there's Riviera dark wind, I really like her. There's a Chevy and I would love to explore her, I'd want to rewrite some of her lore, but I would love to explore her. And I can't remember the other names I gave at the time, but there was a list of 10 names and I was so excited and then we all decided together who I would explore and so getting to troll through that vast expanse of what was already out there and decide what are we bringing forward what's important you know, how are we fitting that into this update? That was really fun.
Snyders Return:Yeah, it sounds like such an amazing and it is such an amazing product that that you guys are considering as you say this entire room should ring bells in probably every d&d players mind from places like Charlton waterdeep and you know, other iconic places they are everywhere in one sense or another. So it's it's just a such a fantastic. I will carefully phrase fantastic organisation to work on to work on me to edit that carefully. But we mentioned there water deep, or Yeah, I mentioned it but same difference and you've recently worked with Junior loveday on a water deal. Dragon heist tion Is that fair? Yeah, it's
Sadie Lowry:an adventure that can be tied into waterdeep Dragon heist.
Snyders Return:Do you lie to us a little bit more about I always get the title wrong, so I don't want to embarrass myself.
Sadie Lowry:Yeah, so it's apparently turkeys torment. The entire time I was editing it. I was saying Tai Chi torment. And I only found out later that it was tacky. When I went to go look up something on her Wikipedia page, and I saw the pronunciation key. And I know you can't tell me it's tight. No, you can. But it's techies torment. It was written by Matthew Whitby and Ginny love day they work together on it. It is they have a really neat section in the beginning that says if you're playing waterdeep, Dragon heist or Dungeon of the Mad mage, here are NPCs from those who can get this adventure started. If your players have joined, the party has joined factions, here are Pete connections in the factions that can give them information about this, there's they put so much attention into making this as easy to tie in as possible. So it could just go hand in hand. It's a it's an absolute romp to if you it's probably got one of the coolest climaxes I've ever seen in an adventure, but most most adventures and with a you know, some kind of some kind of climactic battle, right, which is very DND. It's like, Okay, you've reached the boss, right? There's you fight the boss, and then the boss triggers a giant tornado. And the tornado goes rampaging throughout waterdeep. And so it goes through the market, and they have a whole section on how you can go stop this tornado from completely destroying water deep. And it's one of those things that you sit back as as an editor for that. And you go, holy Heck, Well, okay, I, my brain has been completely expanded. Thank you for thank you for showing me the type of climax I wouldn't have ever imagined for an adventure like this. It was so cool.
Snyders Return:It sounds it sounds it and it's fine. Well, Allah, I'll ask you to sort of put into Where? Where can we find yourself? And where can we find all the content that you're associated with?
Sadie Lowry:Oh, thank you, sorry. So you can find me I'm primarily on twitter at incandescent, which is the word incandescent, except I stuck in a right before they eat. That's where I am primarily, I have a website, Sandy lowry.com. If you want to browse that as well, you can find some of my work there. And then if you search Sadie Lowry on dm skilled, you can find basically everything else.
Snyders Return:And links to all that will be in the description below. So moving on, given I'll try and get the timeline in the right sequence. Moving on from type g type. ag taky. Sorry. I was calling a tip cheese earlier, trying to get the pronounciation. Right. So there with you. Moving on from that. And the latest adventure from Wizards of the Coast as it stands at time of recording icewind Dale run with a freshman, you worked on a primer for that. I would, yeah, go.
Sadie Lowry:Yeah. So Steve pinker, Ty approached me. And I don't remember exactly how the conversation went. But it went something like, you're pretty good at filling out tables, right? And I went, I love filling out tables. And Steve went great. I've got some tables for you. So he gave me the pitch. And he said, if you want to fill out some tables, let's do it. And so I the the player primer, I think it's actually pronounced. This is interesting. I think it might actually be pronounced primmer. I have nothing to guarantee that. I just know. This is just a trade secret for you and me. When I first started working on my book publisher, I picked up something and it was like a baby counting primer. And I said oh, this is such a cute primer and my boss narrowed her eyes and she said primmer and I went What? And she said it's pronounced primer, and I was like, it has one m Katie not not two. And she said I know. But trust me it's pronounced primer. So if you hear me talk about this half the time I call it the player primer icewind Dale and half the time I call it the player primer icewind Dale because I just can't settle on one. But so he brought me on to edit and to fill out tables. And we have seen such a great response to that. The The idea is that it's a very surface level easy to understand easy to access information about the icewind Dale informations about the towns, the regions, the settlements, the factions, a few backgrounds. But our favourite part is the character Chronicle, which is adapted from the wild mount. What did they call it? heroic Chronicles?
Snyders Return:I think. Yes,
Sadie Lowry:yeah. Because we both are really inspired by that the, the idea that these really cool plot hooks are just provided for you that you can then sort of tweak if you're out of ideas. So our absolute favourite part of that was coming up with what are your secrets? Who are your allies? Who are your enemies? Who are you know, what's this one strange event that happened to you? And it's, we've seen so much I mean, we've seen so much good responses to this. I have people messaged me sometimes that go, you know, you have you've totally helped us in the character creation part of playing icewind. Dale, thank you so much. And I, I've never actually thought that would happen. So that's really cool.
Snyders Return:credit where credit's due, you know, if people turn and join and respect your work, then you should be brightly acknowledged for it. So yeah, definitely. So
Sadie Lowry:thank you to everyone who's messaged me, you completely brighten my day.
Snyders Return:There we go. See, and the community seems to be sort of in support of each other at the moment, which, which is, you know, a nice place to be a part of. So, moving on from core DMD settings of one shape, form and description into the eyes unclouded. How did you get involved with that?
Sadie Lowry:Oh, gosh, so that was so at the same time that I was doing the RPG Writers Workshop, I am pretty sure that Brady was taking that at the same time as me if I remember correctly. Brady, if you're listening, I'm so sorry that my memory is not 100% here, but I'm pretty sure that's how it went. And bridey had mentioned in the discord, being interested in doing a studio, a Studio Ghibli Anthology, and a bunch of us that expressed support, we were like, I would love to be part of that. That would be so cool. And then we were all focused on getting our adventures and time went by and time went by and time went by. And finally months later, early to early 2020. I want to say that everything sort of started around maybe April. Brady kind of started Yeah, that would have been that would have been like March or April I think it's bright Brady's finally started collecting people and it was just, it was one of those things. That was like I was completely not professional about it, but it was like you know, alright, I'm opening submissions and I just remember going please, please, please please read it. I have been so excited about this ever since you brought it up. I have an idea. It's based on house Moving Castle and I really want to explore it please, please, please, please please. And thankfully, she thankfully she brought me on. And we spent the next few months I mean, I came on as I came on as a writer and an artist. And then eventually I ended up editing one of the adventures as well to get it ready for print. So I have had Oh and I was the recipe editor as well I organised and edited all the recipes because part of what I do at the book publisher is cookbook editing. So
Snyders Return:I know so many hats.
Sadie Lowry:I have so many so I mean I have had my hands in so many parts of the pie with eyes on clouded it feels it feels like one of my babies you know one of those projects where you're like I don't care what flaws this has I so much of me is in so much of this and so it's so special to me I appreciate the the pun intended there as well.
Snyders Return:So you may have answered the question already in just a moment ago but you mentioned there about excited wanting and excited to be involved Have you got a favourite film that sort of ties into this theme because the the concept is so fantastic and in that sort of studio style there are things like house Moving Castle and other things I wasn't sure if there was a particular film or couple of films that you like Spirited Away or house Moving Castle that you thought that my main inspiration for my part
Sadie Lowry:nine was definitely mine was definitely house Moving Castle but I have to say as much as that's most people's favourites which I understand it's a beautiful adventure. Most people will tell you I think either house Moving Castle or Princess Mononoke and those people are valid. Those are two of two wonderful movies. I actually the first Studio Ghibli movie I ever saw was Castle in the Sky. Have you seen that one?
Snyders Return:I haven't. I'm one of those few people. That's the house Moving Castle Princess Mononoke. A sort of group. unfortunate. Okay, yeah.
Sadie Lowry:So Castle in the Sky is one of those movies that is so fantastical that that I it's it's one of my favourites in a sense that it's not like my it's not my favourite favourite, but it's my favourite in the sense that it completely changed how I see fantasy and storytelling It is so at the time that I watched it. I was very young and it was like nothing I had ever seen before. And it was completely my gateway into other Studio Ghibli movies. I've seen Porco Rosso more times than I can count because that was my husband's favourite. And I teased him about that mercilessly. I'm like, you like the pig in the plain one and he's like, I love the pig in the plain one. So I've seen that one more times that I can count but there's there's something about the art style and the the scenery, the set dressings the the visuals of castles in the sky that has always stuck with me even even after it was replaced with house Moving Castle is my favourite. It's never left me I think
Snyders Return:it's they are so amazing. And the the the book, eyes on eyes and clouded saw so beautifully supports that artistic style. It's, it's incredible.
Sadie Lowry:There was back at the time, so we didn't have an art director to start. And one of the, as we were fiddling around with a cover, or we we decided we needed an art director to tile these art styles together. And the art director did a really good job of helping us sort of keep our keep our styles or art styles as they were, that helped us push them in a in a more in a in a jibley like direction. So and I mean, she had like these, these documents that were like, they had like 100,000, like the images of the different faces and the backgrounds and the and the, you know how things were shaded. And so I was cool, because I walked out of there feeling like yes, this all my art in here. This is a piece that's very sad. But it's also a piece that's more Ghibli. And I think that resulting book is so beautiful as a result. It's so clearly a love letter to what we love about those movies, those visuals, those images that have stuck with us for so so long as people who grew up on these stories, you know,
Snyders Return:yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I'm taking that design concept forward. And bringing a slightly more back into Dungeons and Dragons. Your involvement, as Lisa Penner has told me recently undefeated involvement with the DMS guild design dash, how did you first get involved with that? And what's that been like as a as an experience?
Sadie Lowry:So that was so that was how that went was Laura hers burner was invited to go on. And she is not one for the camera. Which is ridiculous. If you ask me, Laura, if you're listening to this, you are perfect on camera, and you're being absurd. But she has not one for the camera. And she said I don't think I want to do this. And she she did this sneaky thing where she she told me about it and said I think I'm going to turn it down to seek to kind of test out the waters of how I would feel about it. And I was like why it sounds so cool. It sounds like so much fun. And she went great. And then without telling me she emailed Lisa back and she went I don't want to but I know someone who would be perfect. And she she asked she told Lisa that I would be incredible. So not a day later, I got an email from Lisa that went Hey, do you want to be on design dash and I remember going to Laura and just going Laura, what did you do? Uh so I was on design dash three times and I was slated for a fourth before my schedule just went completely wild. It is a zany, fun design challenge. You know, it's generally design an encounter in under 15 minutes. And I'll tell you some trade secrets actually if you want to
Snyders Return:Absolutely, yes, please.
Sadie Lowry:Okay. So in doing design, what I realised is that people connect to big ideas and like big there, everyone will appreciate really zoomed in clever design. I mean, I went up so I had some competitors that I would, how did you do that in 15 minutes? Because they had these incredible tables and these incredible mechanics and these incredible ideas, and I went, Oh, my gosh, you just wipe the floor with me, holy heck. But the trade secret is one of the coolest things about design dash is it's a chance to get show who you are. And so they were showcasing who they were. And I was showcasing who I was, and who I I'm a big idea person I've always been. What are the themes? What are the big ideas? What do you walk away from feeling? So? People joke, they're like, you created entire campaigns in under 15 minutes, because like, I can't think small, I can't do it. So the first one was famous musicals. And I did face School Musical with Zac Efron as the titular character of that, I believe the second one was a it was something about family, a family that plays together. And I remember immediately thinking Family Feud, so I called it dynasty duel, I had srif Harvey, people really like puns, and my brain thinks and puns too. And it was there was a twist at the end, where every time someone was hitting the button, it was stealing points of intelligence from them. And then the last one is probably my favourite. It was. It was a superhero theme, I think. And so I created this entire story, where every year that the heroes and the villains schools get together, it was like a superhero school thing, I think. And there was like, every year, the superhero schools, and the civilian school gets together for this big climactic battle where they determine if the world is more good or more evil for a year, except people from both sides were dying, and who could who could be you know, doing this and I revealed at the end that it was the edge Lord School of anti heroes. And and I have, you know, a couple of like, different beasts creatures that you could find in each school. And so my trade secret for design dash, I am the undefeated Queen of design dash, and I think that's because people could really feel, you know, the, the big ideas and the energy and the passion that I would bring to this and, you know, they would go through my explanation, and they would spend the entire time laughing and, and that was sort of how I went into design dash. One of my I had a, I had a sheet full of ideas. And this is actually really I don't know if I've told anyone this I'll tell you this. This is actually it was very coincidental because as I was prepping for the first design dash I had a little sheet of paper where I was writing down whatever ideas came to mind and I had a tonne of different things written down like combat while falling through the air, or like, wizard tower but with a twist, or like Rapunzel but Rapunzel is the enemy or like something something dating sim I had all these random things written down and I went I have this little cabinet of movies, and I went to crouch crouch in front of it and squint at it and just try to glean inspiration. That morning before designed dash I was looking at you know all my movies and I was going you know I have the procedure over there and I have Inception so I wrote down like Inception but with planes and I was writing down all this stuff and I my eyes. I don't own High School Musical but I was crouched in front of my movies and I went High School Musical. And I would say School Musical. And I wrote that down. So if you watch if you go back and watch that first design dash when Lisa announces if you watch my face when Lisa announces that the theme is famous musicals my face lights up and then I immediately like clamp it back down I'm like okay serious face my face it for a second lights up because I'm like, I have that already. But anyway, going back to my original point, you know, I I like to think in terms of cinematics and big ideas. And if you look at some of my design things, the things I've designed the the kind of circle around that, like if you go look at the deathless skies of Sire, everything is circled around that final climactic cinematic Battle where you're in the morn land in the skies and there's a there's a pirate ship floating next to you and a sky Leviathan fighting you I like big. I like those things that you're going to take home and you're gonna remember, like, remember that time we were fighting a Leviathan in the sky. And so, and oh, that was my original point I, and I love to make people have good experiences. And so I remember on that sheet of paper where I was writing down all of my ideas, I kind of wrote the note, I was like, if people walk away, having laughed or smiled, I win no matter what. And that's, that's what I took into design dash was this idea that I'm here to showcase who I am, showcase my big ideas and to hopefully make them happier for having tuned in. And something about that. I don't know, I I won the poll, three times, almost almost only once. image in gingerale. I think that's how you say her name, image and almost took me down during the second one. But I want it three times. And I don't know I don't know if it's because they they laughed. I don't know if it's because they connected the big ideas. I don't know if I just sound really excited when I'm explaining my ideas that makes people excited about them. But that was the advice that I gave Grady for the most recent design dash I said, Grady, when you're describing your ideas, like when, at the end, when you're going through it, talk about it like it's the best thing you've ever designed, be excited and show them who you are. Because they they'll connect a little bit to the details. But most of all, they'll connect to you. And they'll walk away remembering you if you show them who you are. And so those are those are my secret insider tips. I am the undefeated Queen I had a bunch of work complications around the next one. So I asked Lisa to find a replacement for me. And which is a bummer, because the next one was Iceland clouded themed. But I that's that's what I say to everyone who goes on design dash, I think it's less about winning, which is a little silly to say when I won three times in a row, but it's less about winning and more. Did the audience walk away getting a sense for who you are and how you design? And if you've done that you've basically won?
Snyders Return:Yeah, that's absolutely fair. And that's great. Do you have the gallant Goblin? If I'm not mistaken?
Sadie Lowry:Yeah, yeah.
Snyders Return:Who has released a couple of ventures, one of them being the the Green Mountain of aspetto, which I do own. And I do recommend, if you want to bring some magic the gathering slash mystic Odysseys, of theorists into your d&d campaign, sorry, there was a slight, slight edge.
Sadie Lowry:Yeah, it's such a good supplement.
Snyders Return:It's great. I've got in PDF. And literally my players know that it is waiting just around the corner slowly being drip fed in. But that's for their surprise anyway. So peeling back from the shorter timeframe, or design dash, thank you for giving us that insight. And I think with the cloud, or the eyes on cloud theme, you may have had an unfair advantage. So maybe that's why
Sadie Lowry:they needed to nerf my power.
Snyders Return:Exactly. The damona runaway runaway success. But stepping back tonight into your more traditional writing and tabletop writing, what is your writing process? What is it you do when you sit down with a piece of paper or laptop? tablet? What is the your sort of thought and creative process to sort of start working on a piece of work?
Sadie Lowry:Gosh, that's a good question. So I feel like my process have been different every time but let me think about anything that there any common threads. So I talked to Ashley Warren a lot about processes. And she she is if you if if you ever want to get feedback or learn about processes and what how to implement them in your lives, she is such a great resource, because she's all about what processes work for you. And a streamlining your, your creative work so that your processes support that rather than become a hindrance, which I need quite frankly. But she's she's incredible. I tend to I tend to work in Google Docs. And what I tend to do, I think is I create bullet point outlines and That's where I'll sort of put my big ideas, I try to, I'm very much a fly by the seat of my pants writer, because I know that everything can be edited. That's the thing, I think some people will kind of create outline to be very, very careful until they know that they have a good first draft, and then they'll write the first draft, I'm not that kind of person. So I put a few bullet points. And it's big ideas. What do I need to get out of this section? What do I need to get out of this section? What do I need to get to build up to the climax, what I want to accomplish in the climax, and a few little notes here and there. And then I just sit down and I start writing and and I've tried to introduce a little bit more planning into more recent projects as they've gotten bigger. But I still kind of build around those original pillars. I believe that when we talk about Novel Writing, we talk about, you know, your plot has beats, and it's like each beat should build up a little bit. So it's like that, that the climax, and then the new mole. And so my first step is always even an adventure, your adventure should have beats. And your story should have very memorable beats. So if you're doing and that can apply to I think, any genre, if you're doing a mystery, right, you need beats in there, you you need something to push up the scale, and then push up the scale. And then you can and then you finally discover and confront the the killer. If you're doing you know, a typical dungeon crawl, you know, you'll have a mini boss, you'll have lots of MOOCs, and then you'll have something stronger, and then you have a mini boss, then you have a boss. If you're doing a pulp adventure, you know, there are twists and turns. And so at at, oh my goodness, just smacked my microphone. And so I tend to ask myself, what are the beats? What? And those beats are tied into the emotional impact of the story? Can I give you an example? Yes, please. So when we did definitely skies of Sire, we have 1223443 to four major beats. And each one was focusing on building the emotional and climactic building up to not the the combat in a climactic way, but also the emotional impact of that. So when you first enter the mists, we have a combat in there where you are attacked by people who are dressed in the garb of the last war, and who say a couple of strange things to you. And that doesn't seem and that's your first battle. It's not very important. But the perceptive player will pick up on that they'll go, that was a bit of a weird dialogue. And then you go into the tower, and we have a couple of encounters in there, where things seem to point toward the last war again, and it's one of those things where it's like, okay, that's starting to become a theme, what's going on, then we get to the battle in the tower with the undead Admiral, and you start to realise that he believes he's still fighting the last war. And that's now now at that point, we're kind of drawing to a, an emotional rise, because you realise that these are trapped spirits, who believe that they are still fighting the last war, even though the last war ended when the morning happened. So the morning happened, they all died, and now they are completely stuck in status. And they don't understand that the war is over. And so everything that we were laying down was like, how do we not just build and you know, we're not just building to an airship fight. With a sky Leviathan, we're building toward that realisation, that tragic realisation that these spirits are trapped, and they completely believe that they are that they are fighting for a country that no longer exists the way that they thought it does, that they think it does. And so we, we laid that out, we built it up, you have the tower fight, and then the admiral summons the Leviathan and then you have that climactic battle in the airship, over over the you know, you have that climactic battle over the in the sky is of the morn land with the Leviathan, and it's scary, and it could try to smash your ship out of the sky. But we, when we were play testing, we noticed that some people, a lot of people still really connected back to that original emotional idea of, you know, this is a person who doesn't realise that he's dead. And so many times when people would deliver that final blow on the admiral, they would say something to that they would say, you know, the war is over. It's time for you to rest or or they'd be angry about it, they would be like the war is over, you're done, you're defeated, go home, or you know, there would be more gentle. Like, you don't have to fight anymore. And that's completely how I approach writing, which obviously is harder what to do when you're doing a supplement. But I still kind of always zoom out. And I asked myself, what's the emotional impact? What's the big idea of the theme, the climactic scene? And how do you breadcrumb your way from start to finish to build to that. And then I sit down, and I just write and I write, and I write until the first draft is done, then I edit from there.
Snyders Return:So I was lost in that that moment, just for a moment, because there are so many different ways that players will respond and taking that into account. And sort of trying to balance that into into the encounter and into human emotion. That's, that's quite a feat. I have to say, and I totally respect your ability to create that response from individuals. So that's, that's all right. So that's, that's your writing process, things potentially adapted. And you mentioned speak to Ashley Warren, who, as you say, is such an amazing source of, of information, advice, and everything else. I know, she uses pitcher, pitcher wars and things to help with her creativity. What is love? Most, a lot of your inspiration come from?
Sadie Lowry:Gosh, that's, you know, this is the question that I always, I think, fear the most because I saw so many. No, it's okay. I think so many people have a really concise answer, and maybe they don't, but I certainly don't. I think that I would say it comes from a couple of sources. And next time I'm asked this question, this answer will probably change but right now. So I was recently talking to my husband. At the time that we're recording this, we are still in the midst of the pandemic. And I have been mostly quarantining, I finally had to go back to work in the office, but for many months, for at least six months, I think I was quarantined at home. I live in a basement. And so things were getting kind of emotionally hard for a while. And I remember talking to my husband one night, and I remember saying that. I remember saying it is so hard to feel like anything I am doing matters. It's hard to feel like I can do anything that matters. And he said, say it you are giving people an avenue to feel brave, and a time when it is almost impossible to feel brave. And he said I think that's one of the most beautiful things you could do. So currently, what inspires me, I have a project that Amber licky and I have been kind of stewing on it's in the very, very early stages. But what's inspired me lately is emotions. I think more than anything else like a you could ask me and I could say a million things right? video games like I'm very inspired by Hades right now, by by how those relationships are built by the mechanics of it. Hades is really cool. I am definitely always inspired by Mass Effect. And Dragon Age. I've been I'm reading the most fascinating book right now. It's called the seven and a half deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle, I think is the name. And it is without spoiling too much I it's it's a murder mystery. But it's a really interesting murder mystery. And I've been thinking about how I would take the mechanics of the story and make like a mechanical adventure out of it. I don't know. But I have been. So I mean, I'm definitely inspired by the world around me by movies by experiences I have by things that I think are cool, I go How do I convey that to other people, but I'm mostly I think right now inspired by the idea of emotions and catharsis and the idea that by giving people stories in which they can feel cool and feel clever and feel brave. That's more inspiring to me right now than anything if I I want to every idea I have lately that I've had comes back to the idea of catharsis and this this thing that Amber licky and I have started working on is all about the process of recovering and healing and community. And because those emotions have been so important to me Lately, so, so don't get me wrong. I'm with everyone else where I'm like, yeah, this book, I just read this video game I just played. I'm also there. But emotions and catharsis and the idea that we can put things out there that actually change people's lives for the better that every time I sit down and I think, what do I want to work on next? My brain just pulls back to that, like, how, how do I make something that matters? And how do I make something that changes people for the better? Which sounds so sappy. I'm so sorry. No,
Snyders Return:no, no, please, please do not apologise for that. I will say in support of your husband, that was a beautiful sentiment a very touching thing for, for him to say to you and for you to share with with me. So I I appreciate that. That's, that was beautiful in its own right.
Sadie Lowry:I think it's I think it's something that we can all benefit from hearing and remembering and carrying with us. So he's very wise.
Snyders Return:Indeed. Yeah, absolutely. So if someone's been listening to, uh, hopefully someone's been listening to this, to be fair, but of the people that have been listening, if someone has been inspired, what would be your advice to someone that is looking to get into tabletop writing, writing, or editing,
Sadie Lowry:tabletop writing or editing? Well, I will say this 1000 times. The RPG Writers Workshop is an incredible resource for first for wannabe writers because it's not what it comes with is not just the courses, the courses are very helpful. But it comes with a very supportive community, Ashley has created a community that is not just able to help but willing and eager to help. I remember. I remember being frustrated about something. I don't even remember what it was. But one of the first questions this community asked was, how can we help and that's that's what she's created. So I don't believe that anyone creates completely Well, in a vacuum. We all have skills that I can't lay out for junk. Yet, yet, someday I will learn that skill and then I will be unstoppable. But for now, I cannot lay out and I will not pretend that I can lay out. And so I can't lay out. I am a decent. I am a pretty good language editor. But I need some work on mechanical editing. I'd like some more experience on that to get a sense of balance and language a little bit better. I there are plate knowledge. There's knowledge I don't have there's so much that I don't know. If you look at something that amber and I have created together and you go Wow, that's really brilliant math and combat design. That's Amber, she is brilliant. And I am just desperately trying to sponge out her knowledge while I work with her and just get try to understand how she is so brilliant. Because she has I went to her the other day for my home campaign and I went I needed I need without giving my plate my players like a literal maze. I need a way to have them experience the idea of going through a maze like fog. And she had an answer in in like, a minute. She was like, Well, here's how I would do it. She's so brilliant. I'm so going back. Nobody creates an a vacuum. Nobody. Well, nobody creates perfectly in a vacuum. There are so many skills that we all bring to the table. And so getting involved in that community my first my first piece of advice would be go to ash like sign up for Ashley's workshop. My second one would be join the creators lounge to get talking to people. My third would be pay attention to what people are doing. What How are they laying out? How are they writing? What are they writing about, and apply that to you and never in any of this process lose you and your strengths and your own voices. But the idea of paying attention to people and and learning from them is not to erase you, but to strengthen you and to make it so that you are more well rounded and and stronger. As a creator. I have learned so many things from everyone who I've ever worked with who has been better than me at something and I become more well rounded as a result. So get involved with the community. Don't ever be afraid of looking for resources. If you want to get into editing I would say get the Chicago Manual of Style. Don't be afraid to sign up for some editing courses. I have books on my shelf that I love called the copy editors handbook. But I don't just have that one actually, I have a lot of editing books on my shelf that I'm, I'm like, have my head turned right now because I'm trying to read one. It's, I can't read it from here. So it probably look very silly that I have, like, I think people think that if they don't it that they're more valid as a creator if they don't use resources, and that's just simply not true. We need resources and we become stronger because of researchers. editors of editing is that title I couldn't read. I have so many books I have style lessons in clarity and grace. I have one called feature and magazine writing. I have self editing for fiction writers. I have bill Bryson's Dictionary of troublesome words. And that book in previously was my best friend, I should give that a read again, quite honestly, there is no shame in using your resources and using Nathaniel Roos templates in in using Laura hers of runners. Here's Bruno's board template, in doing your layout in joining with people who have skills that you don't have and and being humble enough to learn from resources and people and classes. It is not defeat. to entrench yourself in a community that wants to help you it is it is victory to, I think rise together. So that's my advice literally is. Get involved. Be humble. Accept, help and learn everything that you can have an open mind and an open heart and learn everything you can
Snyders Return:think that's probably some of the best advice I've heard from any of the creators I've spoken to in a long time. Thank you so much. And I am intrigued as to see if prima is in the dictionary. troubleshoot words, but maybe that's a discussion for another time.
Sadie Lowry:Hold on while we're closing up here. I'm gonna go look it up. I have the book let's see.
Snyders Return:primer or primer.
Sadie Lowry:It's not in here.
Snyders Return:Maybe if it was more difficult to spell? Yeah,
Sadie Lowry:it's probably this is probably a good spelling one. I'm currently googling How do you pronounce primer. in American English, it's clear cut a primer. pronounced primer is a school book and a primer. rhyming with climber is the first coat of something like the white stuff that you roll on drywall before you put on your real paint or an explosive cap. So it is pronounced primmer. If it's referring to an educational, an educational document, yeah. We learned something today.
Snyders Return:And there we go. See, it never hurts to ask for support and learn from one another.
Sadie Lowry:Yeah, like Google
Snyders Return:dogs. Yeah. Well, someone had to put that on there. So we're learning from somebody. Just before we do we close our property it would it would you do the the honour of reminding people where they can find you and the content that the fantastic content that you've put out, please?
Sadie Lowry:Yeah, absolutely. You can find me on Twitter at incandescent or I think if you search Satie Satie, I'll come up with Spooky Scary Skeletons AIDS is my current display name and I will not apologise for that. Sadie lowery.com go on dm skilled search Sadie Lowery. strike up a chat with me at any time. I love to meet new people.
Snyders Return:I would love to have you back on the show in the future. See how this project between you and Amber comes to fruition and anything else you have been working on? as, as the days the weeks and the months go by?
Sadie Lowry:Yeah, that would be lovely, please.
Snyders Return:I will keep in control. We will keep in contact us. And we will speak again soon.
Sadie Lowry:Sounds good. Thank you again so much for having me. This has been fun.
Snyders Return:Thanks. It has been really fun. Thanks for listening. If you'd like to learn more about the show, then go to WWW dot Snyder's return.squarespace.com. Alternatively, you can find us over on Twitter. At return Snyder, you have a link tree link in the description of this episode. And if you want to come and join us over on Patreon and we also have a Discord server. Please leave us a review because we'd love to learn how to improve the channel and provide better content out for for those who are listening until we until we speak again. Thank you