Hello, and welcome to Snyder's return a tabletop roleplay podcast. The word around the table is that my guest today knows exactly where to go to up our game. get exposed to some experience with new and exciting systems and scratch that itch for tabletop role playing game fun, that is sure to cause a splash around town. It is an absolute pleasure to welcome podcaster, game designer, writer and co founder of dice hub games, the wonderful Kristin Devine, Kristin, welcome to the show.
Kristin Devine:Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here and to get to talk games with you today.
Snyders Return:For sure, definitely. Well, before we move on to a few things they're like alluded to in the intro, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself and how you got into tabletop role playing games, please?
Kristin Devine:Sure. I got into tabletop role playing games a little late in life, I guess I was in my early 20s. My partner introduced me to gaming, I grew up in the very real Satanic Panic and was not allowed to play d&d growing up. But when I met my partner in my partner now, I was about 22, or 23. And he introduced me to Star Wars games and Dungeon dragons. And since then, I've really branched out to more like indie role playing games. But yeah, that's how I got introduced to it. And I've been playing ever since.
Snyders Return:Wow. Such a great start. And, and to come into it late, as it says, and to pick it up and go with it as you have is amazing. So where did this introduction from your partner? Where did you go after that? And just sort of path through where you are today?
Kristin Devine:Yeah, so we spent a lot of time just playing games together with like a local group. And then at one point, probably, I guess, eight years ago now and basically my my son's age, about eight years ago, now, we had a local table who wanted to game in person about two times a week. And folks who game right who game regularly can understand the difficulty with getting a regular group together. So we felt like we could hit this like stroke of luck by being able to have this regular group. And at the time, we're playing a couple of different games. But the game we're playing the most was d&d, and we were getting like eight or nine people around the table. Anyone who's played d&d knows how painful it is, was eight or nine people around the table to wait your turn, only to roll a miss and wait another 45 minutes to do anything again in the game. And I'm not knocking d&d, it's just that's, that's the reality of playing the mechanics with a large group. So we had this idea to homebrew right to create a system in which we could play any game we wanted. So like setting agnostic, with a large group more quickly. And so that's how the dice up system was basically born. And then as we individually and together, kind of moved into indie gaming. That's how I started meeting folks and got kind of connected with some of the podcasts and other projects that I that I've been a part of.
Snyders Return:Well, you've mentioned that podcasts. You are co host for tabletop Bible with Amber Amber Sega. So you mentioned there sort of getting to know people How did that connection make because you've effectively inherited the show from James Indra Casso, so you know, quite a mantle to take on for the pair of you. What was it like sort of meeting up with Amber and taking on this sort of food popular show as it as it remains?
Kristin Devine:Yes, it does remain really popular, which has been fantastic. And to give Amber credit, you know, James handed the show off to her before I came on board. She did a wonderful job for her I want to say 12 I want to say a year to a year and a half before I joined. She's just done a fantastic job with the show. What happened is that Amber and I were already working to get so we had played a game together. I had had her on another podcast that I co hosted for almost two years called powered by the players, which is a actual play podcast, in which we were playing your favourite PVTA games and we were doing one shots in many campaigns and just went through as many powered by the apocalypse games as we could, we had Amber on as a guest. So that's how I originally met her. We then got connected on doing adorable ends, which she did the artwork for, I can talk about that later. And in the midst of all of this, I have this idea of doing an interview show that focused on talking to creators in the gaming space, who had crowdfunding projects coming up in the hopes of interviewing them mostly about that specific project, versus anything else they were doing in the space at that time, and releasing the interview at the start of or right before their campaign. And the whole goal is just to get more eyes and more ears on good people who are making good content. So I was going to do that on my own. And I had mentioned to Amber, who is one of three people who runs geek spective network and which tabletop babble is a part of, and she said, Why don't you pitch it to all three of us. And so I did, and we had immediate, and they said, co host tabletop babble. And we'll alternate between that type of interview. And then the interviews that Amber does, which is really more about folks as a whole and all the projects they've worked on in gaming. So we kind of give you a little bit of both, which I think is a really fun balance.
Snyders Return:Yeah, absolutely. I you mentioned there are a number of different connections and references. So I think it's a fair time to maybe get some social media plugs out of you so people can scroll to the description below and follow you in your various adventures.
Kristin Devine:Sure, I'm on Twitter, which is probably is absolutely the best place to find me and, and all of my projects, I also try to spend a good amount of time. You know, hyping up other folks and retweeting other folks projects. So if you if you do follow me, then you can also see a lot of what's going on in gaming with with other people. But I am at Kristin is no Jedi on Twitter. Or at dice up games, which is the company I run with my partner which we publish our own role playing
Snyders Return:games. All right, I will also put links to Geek spective tabletop Bible and and others down in the description below. So please scroll down and support those shows and your good self interesting. So you have mentioned a few podcasts you've been on. They're super geeks, they're a super geek, you're you're part of our team as well. So do you enjoy sort of dropping in more these one shots with with other podcasters as well as on the sort of the tabletop Bible side? Yeah, tabletop Bible side of stuff.
Kristin Devine:Yeah. So they're a super geek, for anyone who's not familiar, is it's somewhat new show. It's only been out for I want to say since I think we started in July is when we started airing the show. We've been working on it since the beginning of 2021. But I'm also co host of that, and it's a one shot, actual play live stream that is then turned into a podcast, the show was actually inherited by the two people who founded and hosted. She's a super geek, which was an actual play podcast folks might be familiar with. So a lot of people don't even know that we're a live stream. A lot of people listen to the podcast of their super geek because it is so closely tied to the very popular. She's a super geek. But yes, it it's different. And an equally exciting project for me, because I don't interview folks, I get to actually play and we play games. And we have a rotating diverse cast, we try to bring on a lot of indie games. It is only a two hour show, which we hope is easier for folks to consume than like a four hour show. And so we often play smaller games that should be easy for our listeners to pick up and play themselves if they'd like to, versus playing some of the more crunchy or games
Snyders Return:absolutely had great reference for people to sort of follow and pick up and have listened to and watch. You mentioned this a stream. I also did a stream relatively recently with respect to time of recording utopia. What was that like being part of that? Yeah.
Kristin Devine:That was really fun. I've played a couple of games for utopia. They are also a fantastic channel. They are on on Twitch as well. They do a bunch of a bunch of actual plays, they have some shows where they review games. So and their you know, their three co founders are really wonderful people who do an awful lot in the gaming space. So if you want to follow them that would be at Utopia on Twitter. Yeah, I recently played Bluebeards bride, which was a lot of fun. So I played my first game ever of Blue Bear debride on a live stream, which was interesting and for anyone who may not know that is a feminist horror game. And that was published by bagpipe games. So It's a very heavy game. We had a great cast and a great GM. And so it was, it was a lot of fun. And then also, I played in a game of kids on hoverboards, which might be the one you're referring to because their sci fi weekend just occurred who told me a sci fi weekend just occurred. So I played in a kid's on hoverboards game, which is a hack of both kids on bikes and kids on brooms and was hacked by, by candy. And she hacked the game and also ran that one shot. And that was just, it was an awful lot of fun.
Snyders Return:Yeah. Would you mind telling us a little bit about your character? Because that sounds like a fantastic mix of the two games. So would you mind explaining a little bit about your character and the the plot without giving too much? Sure,
Kristin Devine:sure. So I and I know I'm, I'm talking about a lot of projects where I hope it's not too much, but I'm really familiar with kids on bikes. I wrote for kids on bikes, as well as teens in space. And then I'm also part of a I'm a regular player in a podcast called Christmas tide Ohio. That is a Christmas themed kids on bikes campaign. And we are playing kids in a Christmas themed town. And we are playing from first grade all the way through 12th. So it is a very long project we are all really committed to and we are in season three right now. So all that to say I'm pretty familiar with kids on bikes, but I've never played kids on brooms. Somehow that game has eluded me. And so making the character was interesting because I was able to pick from the tropes and kids on bikes I'm really familiar with I played the loner weirdo is the title of it. And so I designed my character to be someone who had moved to this town recently. She was 15 years old, still pretty, pretty shy, kind of wasn't ready to make friends and kind of fell in with these two other two other characters that she met through the science club is how we were all all brought together. And the cool twist on it was that instead of having brooms, so in kids on brooms, you, you design your broom, instead of having that we had hoverboards and so we kind of got to pick our hoverboards and basically we were in this futuristic time. Being teenagers, we messed with a teleportation machine cuts it back to 1976 Whoops. And I won't spoil it, but in case folks want to go listen or watch the show, but we definitely met up with some supernatural villains back in 1976 that we had to contend with. So it was just a really it was a really fun game. I mean any any kids on bikes or anything powered by like like teens or brooms. There's they're so fun to play. So I had a great time.
Snyders Return:It sounds a lot of fun. And if it's something I will I will try to check out and definitely put a link in the description below. So something asked you to scroll down and enjoy its attention from this podcast. Staying with the you mentioned you you wrote for kids on broom. So moving tenuous links on what moving from kids on hoverboards to taking long boats to see party or writing credits with the North Sea epilogue epilogues I should say, available on the dice up games website. Yes. What was that like to put together? Because that's that's a shift away from?
Kristin Devine:Oh, yeah.
Snyders Return:Oh, the genre, shall we say?
Kristin Devine:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And just to I know, you know, but to clarify for listeners. I was not a designer for for kids on bikes or teens in space. I just contributed right. I wrote adventures or I designed if factions or species, which is I love doing that for other people's games. So so that's what I did. That's right, contributed to the kids on bikes genre. North seat epilogues, I actually co designed the system and helped write the book itself. And how that came about was. So Shem Phillips of Garfield games has the very popular North seaboard game series. And that board game series was coming to a close and my my partner had this brilliant idea one day of what if Garfield games wanted to make a role playing game based on their board games and kind of Britt help bridge that gap between board gamers and role players, which has been done before but just you know, an idea. And so I said, that's great. You should just reach out we didn't know Shem. So Tim, my partner reached out, just sent an email and I think people would be surprised how often this is how projects occur. But he just reached out and said, would you ever be interested in Having a role playing game made about, you know, the lore you created for your board games and Shem was like actually, yes, so we talked we partnered together it was published co published by renegade games and Garfield games. And it was a lot of fun I we had already had most of the mechanics made because we did use the dice subsystem that I mentioned earlier was developed to play at our at our home table. So we we shared that whole system with Shem and he of course like any any designer, any publisher wanted to make some changes we were absolutely happy to do that. So we did make some changes from the original system for for North Sea epilogues we were lucky enough to be able to use the same artists that Shem had the relationship with the Mikko and who just does amazing artwork for Garfield games and many other companies at this point so yeah, it was to get back to your point a lot heavier of a project then writing or designing some of the other games we have that are like one or two pages this this definitely was I want to say like a year long project right to really finesse the mechanics to get all the words down to get it into editing ready for you know crowdfunding it was a lot of fun it was definitely a big project. It's
Snyders Return:look looks like an amazing project again. Dice games.com Being your website on on the page the adventure modules the people the contributing writers to the adventure modules that you've got phenomenal cast just reading over my shoulder. Be Dave waters soon from limb Elizabeth to project coral. Yep. And there are many many more yourself and your partner included so
Kristin Devine:there there are there are some I look back sometimes at that and I'm like I cannot believe we got all these amazing people banana chan wrote for the game jenaya Kemper the folks you mentioned already just these people that I absolutely respect in gaming were available and and willing to write for North Sea so it's it's something I still can't believe we were able to get that many amazing people to be a part of the project.
Snyders Return:Yeah, no, absolutely. And maybe building on the success of naughty epilogues isn't quite right. But you have continued to develop you're bringing out something new to Kickstarter early next year. You can be notified on it now but we'll we'll touch on that as we speak so would you mind give us a nice elevator pitch your sales pitch was to dig into about adorable and adorable ins
Kristin Devine:please people say it the way you originally said it by the way. Adorable ends Yes. So so adorable ins is a rules light family friendly, role playing game, it comes in a mint tin. It's meant to be played really for two reasons. So the main reason at its core adorable and was designed to help introduce young kids to role playing games, particularly young kids to 2d Six pbta type systems. So PBT systems for anyone who may not know, typically it's a 2d six system and there's usually a playbook and those playbooks that you pick have lots of moves attached. So we took all of that out again with the idea of the core audience being young children, and we kept the 2d Six and we kept about four stats and so you pick your adorable in. So you could be a goblin that wears a cowboy hat and writes a hamster you can be a goblin who is a fighter and has bred rolls his boxing gloves. And the idea is is that you are in your Homeworld as a goblin and something of great importance has been lost through a portal and you must go through that portal and on an exciting adventure to retrieve that important item. There are some world building there are safety tools included and I just think it is a really great game to get kids started. And it's also a really fun game for adults who want to do some heavy improv and just play something silly.
Snyders Return:Yeah, absolutely. So there's great pictures on the website and the game sort of being quickly laid out on the table looks looks brilliant, simplistic. The cards look wonderful, the dice, the safety cards and the spotlight card as well. Fantastic. Use of sort of calibration and safety tools there. For sure. Do you have a favourite
Kristin Devine:frayed I know trying to pick my favourite adorable end Oh I okay so I think I love the weaver I think that's the name we settled on. We've been through some revisions a weaver is the is like our magic user. They look like they're a baker. So and I don't know if that art has been released yet, but in the final art piece, they're gonna be wearing an apron and they have some magical items floating around them. And I love anything baking or cooking and magic. And so I think that would be my favourite but it's hard to pick because Amber, Amber Seeger at rocket orca who did all the art is incredibly talented. And she has created just wonderful adore blends and their companions.
Snyders Return:Yeah, absolutely. The if you go to the website there is a a splash of different ones and the Weaver is is on there. So yes, it is as you have described, so they all look amazing. Just looking at them now the Wrangler the cowboy hamster is definitely want to draw the eye for me, but that's a personal preference.
Kristin Devine:I was gonna ask you if you had a favourite I don't want to put you on the spot. I'm so glad you said that. The Wranglers cute.
Snyders Return:I mean, just looking at them and the various artwork and I've sort of backed Amber's artwork before she's done. enamel pins and things. Yes, she does. Yeah, I can wonderfully drawn. But out of the ones I've seen very briefly. Definitely the Wrangler would be my my first pick, I would say wranglers a favourite. I can imagine like imagine. So you've you have this project coming up in 2022. So potentially, after time of recording, if you can back it. Back it if you are late to back it then are there tears coming up for this? Have you put those sorts of things in place for the project?
Kristin Devine:Do you mean like, like, Tigers or stretch goals? We will be yes, we will be?
Snyders Return:Okay. Yeah. exciting to see how they develop? Yeah, absolutely.
Kristin Devine:We're working with Letterman games on this, who, as a co publisher who has published many board games and also questlines a role playing game for children as well recently. So we're working closely with Dan over at Lindemann games to to work on backer kits and and get it into retailers, hopefully and all that fun stuff.
Snyders Return:Yeah, absolutely. So you mentioned here, the, the characters, the players would would have to go through a portal to retrieve something. Another game where things are lost Julia's lost treasures? How did that come about? And for those that haven't gone on the website, or gone through the various mediums and found it, would you mind describing that game for us?
Kristin Devine:Yeah, I'll give it a shot. Because one thing about dice at games is Tim and I have designed games together, but we also I love I love working with him. I mean, he's my partner like, and my partner in game design. And working together is fantastic. We also have different interests when it comes to games. So we do our own collaborations, and we also design and release games, you know, individually. So to give Tim credit, this is his Julia's lost treasure is his LARP. And it was I believe it was an honourable mention in the golden Cobra. It was. Thank you. Thank you. I love that. You know that. Thank you. Yeah, so it was an honourable mention for the golden Cobra awards. And, like, I think many things that come about that folks are passionate about Tim just had this idea for a LARP like he saw the the call out for Golden Cobra. And he immediately had an idea. And I think he wrote it in a weekend and then worked on it to refine it. But I think it's always a really cool sign when you can get like your core idea of a game or a LARP down, like in a weekend and I don't mean anywhere near the finished product, right. But you have like this vision of what you want this project to be. And so yeah, I remember him definitely working on that for a couple of nights really late and and then he submitted it's the only lrps ever written.
Snyders Return:I mean, it reads really well from what's on what's on the website. So the games you have done together using the the dice up system, there's a great selection on your website. Do you have a favourite of those that you would you would pick over over the others?
Kristin Devine:Sure. Oh, it's hard right. Always pick your favourite. So out of the games we've released right now they're already on on the website, I would say I lean towards wit's end chivalry, which is a lasers and feelings hack. That is almost like a love letter to Monty Python fans. And the reason is, I have really I have two reasons. One, I have really good memories playtesting that in person when you could play games in person, really good memories play testing that and I was really proud of one of my contributions to the game, which was I had the idea that you when it was your some people play the night and some people play the Squire and then you swap. And I love the idea of being able to play two different characters. Right at the in the same game. I just thought that was a really fun spin. And I and I really enjoy my money Python humour. So that was a that was that would probably be my favourite, but I love them all.
Snyders Return:Have to name my knights, the brave knights are robbing Monty Python reference? Yes, please do. So if you don't mind me asking sort of digging a little deeper? What is your development process for these games? How would you go about from going from concept? Maybe over the dining room table to finished product on the website? How did you get from A to B
Kristin Devine:as it was? Yeah. Yeah. So it kind of depends. On I'll speak a little bit to what we're doing now. Because what we're doing now is let, so we've kind of moved away from the lasers and feelings hack for now. The original game, which was designed by John Harper is fantastic. There are many hacks out there. And I love them. So glad that we did them happy to continue to play them. But we've kind of moved on for now in design. We'll revisit it I'm sure. So right now we're working on a forged in the dark game, which is based on, you know, blades in the dark. So by John Harper, I promise I do other systems. This is just coincidental. And so because then I pick that one because it's a larger undertaking, right blades is a is a big game. And so typically how it works when Tim and I are designing a game together versus collaborating with other people, is we will have an idea. And then we will start one of many I'm sure. Google Docs and Google Sheets, in which we will kind of lay out the core idea. One reason why our partnership works really well is Tim approaches things really from a mechanic's standpoint, like he wants to know the game works. And I approach it as how do I feel as a player, because I have much less GM experience, that's one thing I don't do is Gee, I mean, very often. And so although I know mechanics are important, I always approach a game as how am I going to feel as a player, what is fun about this, what keeps me entertained or excited about this game, and then we kind of just flesh out next steps. And we typically take separate tasks. So like, I'm building playbooks right now and Tim's working on different mechanics for our for our forged in the dark game. And then we will come together in a meeting. And we will kind of share what we have, we typically look over each other's work as a pair of helpful eyes before we get any editors or other folks involved. And that's just because, and this is so common for people when, when you are like up to your eyeballs in a project, any sort of writing project at all, you stop looking at every word after a while, you know, and you need like fresh eyes to look at it. So we typically do that. And then yeah, and then we move on, you know, with this force in the dark game, we will start pitching it to publishers next year. And then we just kind of go from there. Because you know, once a publisher is involved, it can get different with, like testing and editing and that sort of thing. But our typical core process really involves a lot of whiteboard, writing and Google Sheets.
Snyders Return:It's worked for you so far. And I'm sure it will continue to work for you in the future. Fingers crossed. Absolutely. So you mentioned the top blades in the dark and another, should we say more narrative based systems. Is that Is that what you feel at home being that immersed in that sort of narrative more free flowing game mechanic style than maybe the crunchy games or do occasionally drift back into the sort of the number crunching of other systems systems?
Kristin Devine:Yeah, so I do occasionally drift back. Right now. My son who's eight and a half has an interest in playing true d&d Fifth Edition. So Tim is running a game for me and my son, so I'm deaf. I'm able to play a warlock. I'm playing d&d, and I for sure enjoy it. I'm where I am most comfortable is in rules, light narrative heavy role playing In games like your pbta I would even say that the blades in the dark I think, is I think a general opinion folks agree on as it is on the crunchier side when it comes to indie role playing games, but worse learning because it's fantastic. But I would say that's probably the crunchiest game I play regularly. Everything else is much more rules like especially being on there a super geek, because we are typically focused on games that we can play in just a couple of hours. And so that's not going to be a crunchy game. That's gonna be a quick rules like game. Yeah.
Snyders Return:So staying with that theme. looking more towards the future then you mentioned some brilliant systems, some brilliant rules like system something you've utilised for your own products and have things in the work. Are there any systems that you've you've looked at thought, one day on, AIX podcast or show or stream whatever, I'd love to play this system. This system it's it's there. It's sort of in the background. I'm aware of it one day I'm going to get to play it
Kristin Devine:Yeah. So I'm sure there were there will be many answers to this but the one that is coming to me right now is the Bob system which is the short name for belonging outside belonging, which is also known as no dice no masters. There are several games that have that system I believe, please don't quote me, I believe the original or at least two of the first our dream apart and dream askew by Avery Alder, Avery Alder designed one of those and not the other. I apologise I can't remember their designer right now. But those two games dream of partnering miscue, I believe were the first are among the first to use the belonging outside belonging system. There's many games now that have that system, and I have yet to play it. I don't know how it's eluded me all this stuff. So that's definitely one I want to play. Because speaking to how comfortable I am with more narrative heavy games, that is one that uses moves and tokens. It is typically gmls. So there's a facilitator, but there's not someone planning your session, you're not rolling dice. And so I find that very interesting. And the fact that it's been hacked so many times to me, means that there's something really special there, and I hope I get a chance to play it soon.
Snyders Return:Yeah, no doubt, I'm sure I'm sure. I can't promise that that will be myself. But I'm sure someone will come in and facilitate, as you say, a session of one of those mini games. And as you mentioned, successful game systems get hacked and twisted. That's why there's so many forged in the dark is one of the Paragon system for Egon and and many others, the lasers and feelings, hacks and things like that just show how well these systems are constructed. Again, scratching a little deeper from all the games you've played. From all these rules like narrative systems, has there been a moment in any one of them that has stuck with you the most?
Kristin Devine:Oh, um, God, such a good question. I have been lucky enough to play a lot of games, probably mostly because of podcasts and live streams, right? When you when you host those types of things. You just, it comes with the territory that you play lots of different games. I don't know that I can pick out a specific moment as a player, but I did just this year, GM a game for the first time outside of my regular like friend group. So I just IgM the non recorded game for folks that I knew from the Indie gaming space that I'm not necessarily friends with in real life, which was a stretch outside of my comfort zone. And I read the book and I knew the system. And it was really fun and terrifying and enlightening being on the GM side. And I just once that session, that first session was done. I just felt really good. Like it's a really memorable moment because I think I had built up how difficult being a GM is in my head and not to say that it isn't difficult but I had spent so long being a player or a writer or a designer but not really honing my skill as a GM ever, which is odd when you're a designer and don't feel comfortable. Do you have any games on regularly? And so after that game, I just remember feeling really, really good. Like I had seen it from the GM side. So I think that's probably what I would say sticks out The most in in recent times.
Snyders Return:Yeah, thank you. Building on that slightly with your self confessed inexperience as a DM, GM, storyteller, whatever the system is that you choose to run. Having gone through that, what advice would you give to someone who is looking to do what you've done and cross to the other side of the screen or or become the facilitator, depending on say, I don't know, Alice is missing is a is a game that just requires a facilitate. So someone looking to to run the game for with run the game with others come together, not against
Kristin Devine:each other. Right, right, I would say. And again, this is just what worked for me. So you know, take what you want from the advice and leave what you don't. But I would say if you're looking to really start GME, I bet you're super nervous. I would start with facilitating because if you facilitate a game like Alice's missing, like a protocol system, game, fiasco is another example. You are responsible for knowing the rules, which are typically very light. But everyone is responsible for the scenes and the story. And so it immediately for me, took pressure off. So I facilitated fiasco, I facilitated the Scarecrow, I did that prior to ever Gee, I mean, when you're ready to GM, or if you just want to skip facilitated and jump into GM mean, my first piece of advice would be to pick a system that you love, you're excited to play, you're gonna be excited to see other people play it. And don't be too hard on yourself. Like one thing that John Harper wrote in blades in the dark that gave me such comfort was like, you don't need to know everything about this game to GM, it just start. And it was like this permission to just, it's okay. You don't have to know my, my fear was that a player was going to make a move or ask a question, and I wouldn't immediately have the answer. And I don't think that's actually expected of GMs from players, it was just pressure on myself. So just don't be so hard on yourself would be my advice. Pick a game you're super passionate about. And go easy on yourself.
Snyders Return:Yeah, it definitely was. Thank You that You know, I have taken things from that and I'm sure other people will take a heart and and many other sort of tips from that. So thank you. Decking staring into the the other side. So we are sat with microphones we were podcasters. What have you learned through your podcast and streaming journey that may be able to to help others? If they want to become podcasters? Like, your good self?
Kristin Devine:Sure. Yeah. So someone who has never podcasted before, or live streamed is looking to do so. My first piece of advice is to really pay attention to the editing. I am so learn from my mistakes listeners. I am someone who had an idea for a podcast with friends it took it took three of us to bring it to life, we all worked incredibly hard. And I signed up in that project to edit because I thought, I'm just gonna have it, it's gonna be fine. I have audacity, no problem. I drastically underestimated the amount of hours that editing takes. And so that would be my first my first piece of advice. Also, if anyone is familiar with big bad con, which is a convention in the indie gaming space. They did their convention online this year for 2021. And they had 24 hours of amazing panels. And I feel very honoured that I got to be on a panel with my co hosts from there a super geek and we talked about this topic and I think that's on YouTube under big bad, Big Bad con. But I'm bringing it up because it's relevant. We talked directly to folks, we kind of tried to pull back the curtain of okay, you have never live stream before. And now you want to start an actual play live stream. Here's all the important things you need to know because marketing the network, you sign up with finances, scheduling, get like there's a lot of work, you know, there's a lot of work that goes into podcasting and live streams. And my advice to people is if you are passionate about it, then please do it. I just hope that you like research it so that you're prepared for the amount of work it is again, I wasn't so that's why I'm talking from that point. I wasn't prepared.
Snyders Return:Yeah, no, I mean, I've I have the utmost respect for live stream is my show. This is just an audio only podcast so I know that the editing side of things but moving into As you mentioned, the production the promotion the or the scheduling and not just of when your stream is coming on but when everybody's working and available and ties to sponsorships and things like that upmost respect for streamers, regardless of platform wherever you stream. Yeah, so hats off to you. Yes. immense amount of work moderators as well.
Kristin Devine:Yes it is it is an immense amount work I'm very lucky when we got together for their a super geek. One of the smart things we did is we the three of us who who run the show, we're very honest with each other about strengths, weaknesses and what we like to do versus not liking to do and we're a very good match. Maryam who is at media junkie, they are a fantastic producer they have offered to produce their super geek for all of time but also to teach either myself or Jeremy the other co host. Anytime we want. My Plate feels full and production doesn't isn't on my agenda right now. So I am so grateful to them i mod in our in our chat. So so as the three of us are playing a game, you know, Jeremy's hosting and keeping track of time Maryam is producing an I'm moderating the chat. So it is it's it's a, it's a lot of work in a different way than a podcast. Also work podcasts or work editing is tough.
Snyders Return:There are some parallels, but to to keep, as you mentioned, to keep up run and keep up with the game for time, and plan breaks running, keep run, or enjoy the game. And moderate a chat that could be zipping past. You've got to have eyes going everywhere. But I don't know almost a second second nature for when you need to step in, I guess. And the production, the graphics, the artwork, the transitions and cameras, and yeah, just overload over here.
Kristin Devine:Same overload too. That's why if Marian wasn't such a fantastic producer and wasn't willing to do it, I would not be a live streamer. Because i i producing this like I don't understand that world.
Snyders Return:So you write for and produce your own games. You star in Star stars, you star in streams and podcasts. You you know have a a sort of personal and professional life. Do you get any downtime? Do you have any breaks for yourself? Is there time for you?
Kristin Devine:Balance is especially this year is something I have to work on? Yeah, I mean, I'm lucky in that what I'm freelancing in, right my writing projects, my design work, I don't do this full time I don't rely on it as my main source of income, which means if time does not permit I am privileged enough to be able to turn down a job that's not the case for everyone obviously, but I am lucky also in that I love what I do it's also my hobby. So when I am podcasting or live streaming that that is absolutely like a hobby for me whereas I I think the writing and design work is is a little half and half right you there has to be some business there contracts are involved in that sort of thing. But that with you know kids and a full time job can be a lot so I am definitely learning to be better at project management and to give myself a break and to stop collecting shiny new projects. ongoing struggle
Snyders Return:bench a mountain of respect for you being able to juggle over all of those things in and create the success that you have you and your partner. So again, hat comes off to you good self as well. So thank you. I mean we have covered a lot during this conversation. We thank you for for sort of bringing out so much is there anything we haven't touched on that you want to bring up just before we bring this episode? This interview sorry to close?
Kristin Devine:I'm laughing because I feel bad that I I brought up so many items.
Snyders Return:Not not all not so.
Kristin Devine:No, I don't know I don't I don't think so. I think we've covered a lot I really appreciate your time and and the thoughtful questions and being willing to listen about all the all the many projects that I am currently a part of.
Snyders Return:Well, I will be supporting one of your many projects, if I'm not already supporting many other of your projects, but we'll work out how it works out in time and all those sorts of things. Before we go though, would you like to remind everybody where they can find yourself and everything you're associated with and attached to on social media, please, just
Kristin Devine:Sure. So as we've discussed, I am part of many projects. And most of those projects have other incredible hardworking people, I, you know, it's absolutely not just me, there's a lot of them. So the best place to find them is my Twitter, because in my bio, I have the handles for most of the folks or most of the projects. I'm a part of podcast, live streams, that sort of thing. But you can follow me on Twitter at Kristen is no Jedi. You can also check out my games on dice up games.com, or follow at dice of games on Twitter. And then as far as networks, the geek spective network is something to check out. And I didn't mention this, but they're a super geek is supported by misdirected mark. And they are at misdirected mark on Twitter. And also they have a Twitch channel with the same name. But they are an incredibly supportive network. And our show wouldn't be successful without them. So I do want to make sure I give them that credit as well.
Snyders Return:But yeah, that's it. Well, thank you so much for joining me, it's been such a pleasure to get to chat with you, and sort of learn about noni, dice games, and the Kickstarter project, which time of recording is coming out. Due to be I've got it notified. So it will tell me when it's coming out. However, when's that do to open up? Yeah, so
Kristin Devine:that's gonna come out January 11, and run for 30 days. So January 11 2022, for 30 Day campaign.
Snyders Return:Wonderful. We, we will be supporting that. Here at the size Ritter. Thank you so much for all of that information, and just being wonderful. And all your podcasting hard work. So thank you. I'd love to get you back on the show. Maybe I could run one of the systems that you'd like to play in the future. I'm excited to find out how you were forged in the dark project turns out as well.
Kristin Devine:Yeah, absolutely. I would love that. I really appreciate your time was great chatting with you.
Snyders Return:Thank you so much, Cristian. It'll be great to talk to you again in the future. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to learn more about the show, then go to www dot Snyder's return.squarespace.com. Alternatively, you can find us over on Twitter. At return Snyder, you have a link tree link in the description of this episode. And if you want to support us, come and join us over on Patreon. And we also have a Discord server. Please leave us a review because we'd love to learn how to improve the channel and provide better content alpha for those who are listening until we until we speak again. Thank you