Interview - Sam Mannell - Cryptic Parlour - MCDM

Today I talk with the slightly Uncaged D&D writer and Content Creator for MCDM, Sam Mannell.

We discuss Arcadia, the Dungeons & Dragons Game System, forging ideas, beating our heads against the wall and so much more.

You can find Sam Mannell and all of his content via the links below.

Website:
https://crypticparlour.com/
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/300580/Uncaged--Volume-IV?affiliate_id=1643000

Twitter:
https://twitter.com/crypticparlour
https://twitter.com/helloMCDM

Please leave reviews on ITunes to help us to learn and grow as a Podcast

Yours Sincerely,

Adam 'Cosy' Powell

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CAST & CREW

Host: Adam Powell

Guest: Sam Mannell

Sound Design: Adam Powell

Music: Epidemic Sound

Cover Art: Tim Cunningham - www.Wix.com

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Transcript

Snyders Return: 0:27

Hello, and welcome to snows return a tabletop role playing podcast. My guest today is a writer and game designer who has worked with powerhouses of the tabletop role playing game creation community and is not afraid to get uncaged themselves, helping players cross the T's and dot the i's in capital. My guest continues to bring new insight. However cryptic for DMS and players alike. the warmest of welcomes to Sam mantle Sam, welcome to the show.

Sam Mannell: 0:53

Hello, good. Good to be here. Incredible intro.

Snyders Return: 0:57

Thank you very much. It's all it's all your own work. I just reworded it. It's speaking of your work, we'll move on to that short period of time. Sam, would you mind? Tell us how you yourself going to tabletop role playing games? Please?

Sam Mannell: 1:13

Um, that's a good question. I feel like I had kind of a weird path into it. I started playing them in high school with a bunch of friends, I think what we actually did was, we were all playing probably Elder Scrolls or something like that. And we ended up trying to kind of create our own version of a board game version of it. And then we realised that there was a whole industry of tabletop games that already existed. And the thing that we got super into was gurps. So I played gaps for like, five or six years before touching anything else. Hmm. And then the rest is history, I guess. But yes, that started in high school, mostly with gaps.

Snyders Return: 1:58

Okay, you say the rest is history. There's a bit of history between gurps and where you are, today's where what's that path that's that's led you from that initial playing, you know, creating your own Elder Scrolls to the projects you've been working on.

Sam Mannell: 2:16

And I suppose, in a way, I've always been sort of like making stuff for the games that we play, like I was kind of always the, the guy who ran them me and maybe one of my other friends did it for for all of the rest of our group. But yeah, I think I think jumping to d&d in particular, was mostly just because it was kind of popular at the time, especially with in podcasting. And so I had a lot of friends who were interested in in recording a podcast. And so that's how we ended up getting into d&d. And then I kind of got super obsessed with the game itself.

Snyders Return: 3:02

I guess I was that which edition of d&d? Not that it matters to me. But what was your sort of stepping on point for Dungeons and Dragons?

Sam Mannell: 3:11

Yeah, so just fifth, I don't think I've ever played any of the other ones. For a long time, we avoided picking up fifth my group of friends through high school, just because we thought it was too expensive. We were all students. And so we we didn't want to have to buy a set of policy drills, even, not even not even $12. I don't even want to invest that much. Which is why we ended up playing a lot of stuff that was kind of old. And like, one of my friend's dad had all of the gurps books. And so we just used all of his stuff and got into a lot of other games first. And so I think for a long time, we just kind of felt like five he was kind of not elitist, but there was definitely like a price of entry that it would just wasn't the path of least resistance for us to play tabletop games for a long time. And then I kind of moved cities, made a bunch of new friends and and then yeah, we decided to go for it when we wanted to do some podcasting and then that podcast fell apart, but we're still playing five. Wow,

Snyders Return: 4:17

I was about to ask, is that podcast still going squirrelled away somewhere on the podcast that

Sam Mannell: 4:22

I think I've erased all trace of it. It was a good, it was a good time. And I would like to do something like it again. Maybe like we all had a lot of fun with it. But I think it kind of impacted the way I ran the game in a way that I didn't like. But mostly, it just was a lot of work for me personally, and I didn't enjoy it that much. Like I think there was some elements of it that I liked, but it was editing podcasts as I'm sure you know, takes great had a lot of time. And I was more I was always more interested in the game. I think so.

Snyders Return: 5:07

Hmm. is when the fun becomes work, it was time to put it to one side and return to the fun.

Sam Mannell: 5:12

Yeah, yeah, more or less. Yeah,

Snyders Return: 5:14

that's fair enough. Yeah, I agree with you at podcast is it's a lot of work. So you try podcasting. And you sort of got into fifth edition? Where did that grow from there for your sort of creative sort of output for things like publishing works?

Sam Mannell: 5:34

And yeah, like I said, I think I've just always been making stuff no matter what game I'm sort of playing at the time or, or who I'm playing with. And so there's always been something kind of TINKERING AWAY in the background whenever I'm running a game or even just playing in one or something like that. So I think with fifth, I had been running a campaign for maybe a year or two. And there was one night where a bunch of players couldn't make it. So I was like, well, I'll, I'll just do it, we'll do a pickup game, we'll do a one shot. And I sat down and hammered out an extremely rough one shot, which was just based on the idea of the game, werewolf, which I think is relatively popular, and I probably don't need to explain. Like, like, like mafia. Yeah. And just because I knew that I had, I had a bunch of players who really liked that game. And like the kind of element of figuring out who is and who isn't on your side. And I thought, it's an easy way for me to entertain my flowers. And it was popular with him. So I was like, well, I'll, I think just for fun, though, I thought I'll put it together in a way that looks semi professional and put it on dm skilled, and that was the first thing that I kind of published in fivey. And that was what ended up getting me in with mcgm. Which was cool.

Snyders Return: 7:11

Yeah. What's it been like working with the whole Matt Koval entity enterprise? That sort of whole

Sam Mannell: 7:22

thing? And very good. I think in as few words as I can find it. Yeah, obviously, a blast. Like, it's been a lot of fun to work with all of them. And I'm, I think, I've really appreciated being able to meet a lot of people better, but at the same time, there is kind of an element of, of pressure, I suppose like I, I remember, during the first assignment, for any writing that I had done through that company at all, I was just kind of distinctly aware that there is already quite a big established audience for it. Because I had been part of that audience for a little while. And I really didn't want to miss it. But I yeah, so far, I haven't I think.

Snyders Return: 8:16

No, absolutely. No. So what I mentioned it briefly in the introduction, but would you mind telling us some of the projects you have worked on with respect to mcgm sort of past projects, or anything that may be coming up in the future that you are allowed to talk about?

Sam Mannell: 8:33

Yeah, I think I'm allowed to talk about everything. And we don't have any NDA or anything. But I won't go into too many specifics, just because I think that's more exciting. What have we been working on? The first thing that we worked on was player's guide to capital, which is unreleased, and probably won't be for a while, I think, I think it's relatively low priority for the company in general, just because there's bigger fish to fry at the moment. But it was it was a blast. It was really, really fun to work on. I really enjoyed working with all the other writers they got picked for that project. And I think also it was sort of specifically designed to be a project which let them kind of pick or test a system for freelance writing, before they moved on to something bigger, which is what we're working on now. kingdoms and warfare. I'm not sure how much you know about what that book kind of entails. But it's it's exciting stuff. And the last thing that we've been working on is Arcadia, which is kind of the first test run of kind of Dragon magazine style, monthly publication. super small, I think it's only three or four articles an issue, and it will be available through the mcgm Patreon.

Snyders Return: 10:06

That's the the easy shot with James in Chicago and a few of the others. What's it? Have you been able to sort of work quite closely with, with those sort of members of the team?

Sam Mannell: 10:21

And just James really, I've worked super closely with James through that because he's managing sort of the whole process. But I really enjoy working for James. He's super on the ball with fixing all my mistakes, basically.

Snyders Return: 10:42

So you have Arcadia underway, and you've mentioned plays guide to capital and a few other things. Switching back to you. You mentioned the DMS Guild, and you've got to work on the uncaged anthologies. What was it like to work with sort of produce work for that project?

Sam Mannell: 11:05

Yeah, I did. And I did the uncaged stuff before I did any work through MC dm as well. And in a lot of ways, that was kind of a really great first step into into that kind of world of publication. Because all of the stuff that I did for myself, I wasn't interested in getting paid for it or anything like that. I wanted it to be free and just kind of have fun. And then uncaged was the first time that I realised that there was like I, I knew in theory that there was a market for it. But uncaged was the first time that I was like, oh, man, people are actually super willing to buy this stuff if it's good. And I think a lot of uncaged was really good. I met a lot of people through that too, which I think is some of the best creators in the scene. Currently. Big fan of dw De Gong shout out, check them out on Twitter, incredible. And working with with Ashley Warren was cool, too, mostly because she just has a crazy work ethic, and managed to keep that whole project kind of focused and on track, which is a massive undertaking, because there was so many people involved. I've seen I've tried to sort of run stuff like that before as well and seen other people do it. And it's super not easy. I don't know if anybody else could do it quite in the way that she did. But it was kind of a different experience to I think that there was in some ways, because it was a bigger group of people. There's more room to kind of disappear into the crowd in a project like that. But at the same time, it definitely did foster a very sort of tightly knit community. And you see probably a lot of other projects that came out of that group of people after they all worked on uncage. Together, there's a lot of really cool stuff that people went on to do. So yeah, it was it was a good experience. It was different in some ways, but not. Yeah. Good for its own reasons, I think.

Snyders Return: 13:25

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. A very strong product. And as you say, you just sort of had that and the strength of that project, and then the mcgm stuff. So looking at at you as a writer and game designer, what's your what's your creative process, when you sit down at your piece of paper, laptop tablet, however it is you produce your work? What's the system that you use?

Sam Mannell: 13:57

A lot of beating my head against the wall, I would say. Like, I think I think the process is mostly just a long sort of protracted slog I for the stuff I've been working on most recently, I tend to sit down and try to build up momentum just going bottom to top and or top to bottom rather, like I lay out an outline of what I need to do. And then I just try to do things in order. And inevitably, I get stuck on something that can I just sit there and stare at it for an hour. But I think I think the creative process is basically that it's like getting stuck on something, digging your heels in and continuing to think about it until your head hurts and then hopefully you come up with a good answer. There's not really any shortcuts to it.

Snyders Return: 14:55

For I mean, it's worked for you, you know, you give up Use this this volume of work and that people are super happy, you're obviously not unemployed. So they must be happy with what you produce. It's maybe not the most conventional method. But that's what I keep telling myself. So with all the stuff you've done previously, and the stuff you're working, working on at the moment, you know, obviously, you keep very busy and trying to be creative. So what? What are some of your influences? What what influences the way you other than banging your head against a brick wall? Or staring at pages for an hour? what some of the influences that you draw on? Or where do you use or like to go to get inspired?

Sam Mannell: 15:39

It's a good question. I think my approach to inspiration is kind of 50% I believe that is, there is an element of discipline to it. Like I, I try not to wait for inspiration to strike, I try to just make it happen by kind of brute force a lot of the time. And I think the other 50% of that equation is that I do get inspired by stuff completely on accident. A lot of the time. I steal a lot of stuff from TV, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that I've stolen from TV, but I just any other sort of creative thing works really well for, for being inspired by if you're kind of open to ideas coming your way. So TV books. And then yeah, books is a big one. I've stolen a lot of Terry Pratchett stuff. Big fan of that. I hope I hope people don't notice a lot of the stuff that I've stolen from those books, but and then I think the biggest one is actually probably music I listened to I listen to music, and then I kind of just feel like I see stuff happening in my head. Or I imagined what the music could be some sort of like backing track to and I'm like, Oh, that's cool idea. I should write that.

Snyders Return: 17:14

Sounds Do you have a favourite genre the sort of really engages your brain or you just kind of hear there and everything that comes off the radio, or however you listened to music?

Sam Mannell: 17:25

Yeah, it kind of comes from from everywhere, I think. I think it depends on what I'm working on. I kind of associate certain maybe genres of artists with different projects that I have. And then if I'm looking for inspiration, or trying to get into the like, kind of mode for, for one project, in particular, I'll try to put a playlist together of stuff that might spark something. So I'm for d&d, definitely, it's a lot of like, metal, kind of British middle, I guess, Iron Maiden is a good place to start a lot of the times. I've recently started using Black Sabbath as well as like a inspiration. And I think that works pretty well. There's a lot of like, very close ties between good metal music and fantasy. So I feel like that comes quite easily.

Snyders Return: 18:23

No, that's, that's, that's great. It's good to sort of have that picture of Eddie or Ozzy strange to have similar sounding names and yet look very different. So I, you, you know, you have this great process. And it sounds like it gives you an enormous headache by either banging your head against the wall or listening to some Yeah, listening to the this great idea, but great music in my opinion. So I'm there with you. But what is it you you do for doubt, say the creative process, you do need to take a break? What is it you do for your downtime? How do you sort of reset yourself?

Sam Mannell: 19:08

Yeah, I, I suppose instead, some ways, you just have to kind of leave it completely, like, I find that doing stuff like watching movies or or TV can help. But at the same time, it's sort of, it's sort of not changing gears enough, because you're still kind of thinking about it. And it's still kind of too closely related, if that makes sense. Like it can be hard to turn it off. And I think that trying to unwind by consuming other media doesn't always work because it's you. It's not far removed enough for you to be able to switch that part of your brain. and be like, I'm just not going to think about it. Um, I think I think the biggest thing I do probably is go swimming, because it's, you can't, you can't do any creating at all, when you're underwater. It's extremely difficult to think about anything else. So yeah, I would say, if I'm really sort of stuck on something, or if I need to unwind, then I'll do that. But that honestly happens very rarely, like, a lot of the time, I feel like I just don't reset, or I just don't stop working on something until it's done.

Snyders Return: 20:34

No, that's fair enough that speed, sort of think of thing or moving on things that are done such as, as your as your work, where where is it that people can find you on social medias to sort of keep up with what you're doing and projects you're associated with? Um,

Sam Mannell: 20:53

I think Twitter is probably the place that I'm most active or available, even though it may not seem like it because I don't necessarily post a lot. So people can find me on Twitter, at cryptic, Paula. And I have a website that is under the same name. So cryptic, Paolo, calm. But until until more stuff that I'm working on comes out, there's not going to be a lot of stuff to put on the thing. Currently, you can go and see some old writing exercises that I've done. But other than that, there's not a tonne there. And yeah, that's probably about it. I tend to not be super active on on other social media. That's fair enough. I

Snyders Return: 21:35

will make sure there's a link in the description flobo for both yourself and the MC dm stuff and everything else you want me to put links to? I'm intrigued the cryptic parlour. Where's that derived from?

Sam Mannell: 21:52

That's a good question. It came from me wanting a name for my website. And there are two other I wanted something that kind of evoke to the same kind of weird. Two words mash together. As there's another website, I forgotten off the top of my head, the one that initially sparked this, but there's another one as well. I think it belongs to Chris strobe. Who is the one of the one of the guys I think in I forget the name of it. super popular d&d. podcast show. Acquisitions Incorporated. That's the one. Yes. Oh, yeah. He's, I think one of the guys in that I haven't watched any of that show. I don't know anything about it. But he had a website called chainsaw suit, which I thought was an incredible name for a website. I think he used it to post comics and stuff. And I remember thinking, like, I wish I had a website name that was like chainsaw suit, and I was just trying to buy a domain. And I think I came up with cryptic palette because it was just something in my d&d game at the time, it's like a place that you can go well, that you may not want to go.

Snyders Return: 23:13

Now, I like it. I actually love it. I may integrate that into my home d&d game, somehow. Because it is a fantastic name.

Sam Mannell: 23:23

Yeah, at the time, I was very into Bloodborne. I still am. But that's where a lot of that that sort of inspiration comes from, I think,

Snyders Return: 23:30

a deep play sort of video games, or is that is that got got been put on the back burner?

Sam Mannell: 23:37

Yeah, it has honestly been put on the back burner, basically. I have always been super into video games, obviously. That's how I mentioned before, my high school friends and I first got into tabletop. But maybe three or four years ago, I kind of made the decision just to stop playing video games altogether, just because I was like, I, I spend too much time doing it, I need to spend more time writing. Which, you know, like, I have mixed feelings about AI. I think ultimately, it's been good for my productivity, which is great. But I do still play stuff every now and again. They tend to be sort of smaller endeavours, or, you know, things that you can kind of pick up and play for a very short amount of time. Have fun with and then move on. But yeah, my tastes in that regard have definitely changed quite a lot. And it was definitely because at some stage I was just like, I feel like I'm not going to get anywhere unless I put this down for the next five or 10 years and then hopefully I have a career which lets me have free time to do this again, but

Snyders Return: 24:53

Well, that's fair enough, but having sort of put the the computer games to one side or their ball games or other tabletop games outside of, say, the gurps that you start with or DND, that you're sort of writing for the moment that you would like to play or have played?

Sam Mannell: 25:09

Yeah, yeah, there's, there's a tonne of games that I like to play. I'm a big fan of delta green. I've ran maybe two or three games, that delta green. I ran Delta green ages ago using gups. But then I've just sort of recently actually started using your own. Yeah, like rules and engine and stuff for it. I really enjoyed that game. And a lot of my my players do as well. So I want to do more of that. I'm a big fan of Eclipse phase, but I haven't actually played it at this stage. I've just listened to a lot of people playing it. And it sounds like a cool game. And I'm a big fan of red markets, which is a game that came out a couple of years ago by a guy called Caleb Stokes, I think is his name. And it's a super, super good game, but I haven't convinced anyone to play it with me yet, because it's a pretty hard sell. The basic pitch is that it's a zombie game, but the world has ended but the bills still need to be paid. And capitalism still exists. So huge Vollmer a builder's economic horror, which I think is a good genre for that, but yeah, pretty, pretty tough sell to get anybody to sit down and play that

Snyders Return: 26:37

game with you. I mean, I'm definitely intrigued, and I'll be googling that in a little while.

Sam Mannell: 26:43

Yeah, it read markets. Honestly, I've ripped off a lot of stuff from that game too, because I think I have some of the best designs i've i've ever seen. And it's kind of tucked away in this weird little while it's not little, it's a huge book, but it's a good game. And then there are other games as well that I like to play which are less involved. My friends and I are big fans of Avalon, which is very similar to werewolf which I mentioned earlier. That Yeah, Avalon I think might be the best game ever created. We have a lot of fun with that game flows,

Snyders Return: 27:16

including myself unfamiliar is that within the World of Darkness sphere, I've I've I've heard a werewolf and various other things you mentioned over a long, Avalon is new to me. I'll say that.

Sam Mannell: 27:29

So that's a good question. I should have mentioned vampire as well. And then I'm, I'm semi interested in vampire. I haven't played any of the tabletop versions of it. But I was a big fan of bloodlines when that came out. Great game. So quick aside to mention vampire as well. But we will find Avalon we will I actually meant but I think I miss named it before so totally understandable that there's a miscommunication. I think it might actually be called one night werewolf. It's It's similar to mafia or secret Hitler and stuff like that. It's kind of more of a party game where where someone is, someone is agreeable. And you have to figure out who. And Avalon is a version of that, where it's based on King Arthur. So someone is there's like, a bunch of people who are secretly evil in the circle of people playing and you have to figure out who by sending people on missions and saying if they go well, agropoli it's, it's very good, because it devolves into screaming very quickly. People accusing each other of being evil and one person is melon, and they know who's evil, but they can't tell anybody because then they get assassinated. It's great.

Snyders Return: 28:50

That sounds a lot of fun. It does sound a lot of fun to prefer.

Sam Mannell: 28:54

Yeah, it's it's super easy to pick up. And it's a great time,

Snyders Return: 28:58

one for when the world can all gather in one room again, I think.

Sam Mannell: 29:01

Yes. Yeah.

Snyders Return: 29:02

So you've touched on a lot of things. There are a lot of games and delta green is another one that I'd if you could give us a quick precis say you enjoy playing it. I've sent it on Drive Thru. And I know you can get it in other places. But if you I don't know, I'm asking you to give these short snaps of these games, but I can hear the excitement in your voice. And I'd like to find out what it is about these games that you really enjoy. Yeah.

Sam Mannell: 29:31

What is it about them that I enjoy? I don't know. There's some stuff that just sort of grabs me. And like Delta green I feel like I'm not really sure why. That game in particular stands out to me to be honest. It just sort of does.

Snyders Return: 29:50

That's, that's, that's a no wrong answer that question so now it's fair enough. You can't always explain why something appeals but that's fair. That's fair. swinging the the topic round a little bit about appealing. And if you have caught the imagination of somebody listening who thinks I would like to follow in the footsteps of of yourself? Do you have any advice to draw on from your experiences of how you got into writing? And I realise everybody's path is slightly different, but things that you've learned over your time as a writer that you would pass on to someone looking to come into the industry?

Sam Mannell: 30:31

Yeah, I feel like I do have quite a lot to say about that, actually. Because there's a lot of a lot of people asking that question. And I think it's a good question. And there's a lot of advice out there as well for for people looking to get into any sort of creative career, or any sort of type of writing, I suppose. Like, I think the advice kind of applies across the board. And a lot of it is very repetitive. But I don't think that's a bad thing. I think that a lot of the advice out there that people give on on how do you get into writing as kind of a job is the sort of advice that you have to hear, you hear it a million times, and you think you understand it, and then at some point, it clicks, and you're like, Oh, you do have to just write every day or, you know, whatever, whatever the advice happens to be sometimes, that's definitely been my experiences that I've heard people say the same stuff over and over, and you think you've kind of internalised it, but then at some stage, you have to really sit down and be like, okay, I wasn't quite doing this. So like, I think that, I think that pay attention to the advice and really try to take it on board. And then as far as me actually dispensing some of the advice, I suppose I could do that. I think that there are a few things that you can do with writing to, to get better at it. I think drafting is a big one, I think that's something that I'm still sort of trying to figure out. drafting is actually really, really difficult. But again, like you hear people say, you have to write something that sucks. You have to draft a bunch of shit, and then fix it. But it's, it's really hard to actually sit down and do that, like nobody wants to commit to, okay, I'll fill the page with something can and then I'll go back and revise it. Everybody wants to sit down and write genius straightaway. And I think that's basically impossible. It's, it's really, really hard to do that. And it's taken me a long time to figure out the best true. So yeah, draft, make, make sure that you sit down and drafted and don't get too attached to it. Because chances are, you'll have to go back and edit it. Like, there's all this, there's so many old sayings about that sort of thing, it's easier to edit garbage than right genius. And then planning and outlining is kind of another big one, I suppose. I think that if you sit down a lot of the time, I can't I can't work on an empty page. Like if I look at an empty page, it's just too intimidating. So I always try to just bullet point, like, what I want to do. And then I try to sort of connect the dots, if that makes sense. And I think that helps a lot. I think a lot of people sit down and try to write on an empty page. And I think that it's unnecessarily difficult. But yeah, I there's so much advice out there that I think is, is out there in huge quantities. And I feel like becoming a writer is a process of ignoring that advice for as long as you can, until you have to accept that you're not as smart as you think. But if there was one, if there was one thing, I think that is like very actionable that you can do to get into something like writing for d&d, or writing for tabletop games, or, you know, freelancing and stuff like that. And I think this is probably a fairly controversial statement. So bear with me. But I've brought this up on Twitter before I think when people talk about getting into the industry, and I think generally people agree with me, but it's something that I think a lot of people don't talk about. And I honestly think that getting a white collar job helps enormously. Having a day job, which gives you free time is a huge, huge privilege. Like I I worked in hospitality for a long time and I was working in hospitality and coffee when I first started writing stuff on the DMS go And it took me a long time to get anything done because I was so exhausted after, after my actual job. And then now I've I've kind of moved into copywriting as a day job, which affords me a lot more free time to work on other stuff that I want to work on. I think that it's important to remember that having that sort of free time is a privilege. Of course, there are like, definitely huge exceptions. There are a lot of people who manage to just, you know, do incredible stuff with almost no resources and no time. This is really great album, I think by a singer called calella. And she wrote her first album while she was working, working in a call centre, which is crazy. That's an insane amount of dedication. And it's a good album.

Snyders Return: 35:56

So you should listen to it. But

Sam Mannell: 36:00

But yeah, I think I think I never really made any meaningful progress as a writer until I quit working in cafes, which, you know, I think everybody kind of suspects, it's something that might be true, but no one really wants to admit it. But yeah, you basically, if you come from a lower socio economic background, you just have to be twice as good at managing your time as everybody else. So if you can get into a job, which gives you free time, that's the easiest way to do it, which is kind of shit. But

Snyders Return: 36:28

you know, it's never easy to climb to the top, I suppose. Yeah. So no, that's, that's fair advice and honest advice. And I appreciate the fact you you've been so candid with it and, and honest and forthright. I'm sure there are people that will, hopefully, take that on, as well as balancing all the other advice that is out there online. And in the various of out sources of information. And sound we've we've touched on a number of different topics. Is there anything that we haven't mentioned so far, or any, anything specific that you would like to talk about that? We haven't maybe mentioned so far in the interview?

Sam Mannell: 37:11

I'm not particularly I don't think so. I've been enjoying answering questions. And

Snyders Return: 37:20

that's Yeah, that's fair enough. Um, would you like to remind everybody where they can find you on social media and where they can find your various outputs? Should we say your publications and things?

Sam Mannell: 37:31

Yeah. You can follow me on twitter at at cryptic. palla. And that's probably the best place to to keep up to date with me for updates. I think on diems Guild, my stuff is listed under esteem, nl. But there hasn't been a lot of movement there and may not be for some time, I do not know. So for as far as output goes, I think the best thing to do is probably just stay tuned to whatever mcgm is doing because at this stage, I'm I'm just trying to take everything that they are willing to offer me.

Snyders Return: 38:09

Alright, well, we were certainly as I say, I'll put the links in the description below. And we'll certainly keep an eye on on your social media and mcgm and I'll make sure I've got links to your stuff on the DMS guild in the description below. And I can't recommend the uncaged anthologies enough. So, Sam, I've really, really, really appreciate you having some time to talk to me today. And I'd love to have you back on on the show in the future if you'd be willing.

Sam Mannell: 38:41

Yeah, absolutely. Let's do this again sometime.

Snyders Return: 38:44

Yeah, it's been it's been good fun. I've learned a lot. So I appreciate that. Thank you very much for your time.

Sam Mannell: 38:50

No worries. Thank you.

Snyders Return: 38:52

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