Ep 260: Refining And Extending I Have, You Need

How can you get the most out of I Have, You Need in your classroom? In this podcast Pam and Kim answer some common questions and dig deeper into one of their favorite routines, I Have You Need.
Talking Points:

• Do cars speak the language of fractions?
• I Have, You Need (See also Ep 7 and 164)
• Why it is helpful to know partners of 1, 10, 100, 1000, etc.
• Common misconceptions
• Why it is important for the teacher to call the numbers
• Is it about creativity or efficiency?
• Discussing strategy is a big part of I Have, You Need

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Transcript

Kim  00:00

Hey, fellow mathers! Welcome to the podcast where Math is Figure-Out-Able. I'm Pam Harris, a former mimicker turned mather.  And I'm Kim Montague, a reasoner who now knows how to share her thinking with others. At Math is Figure-Out-Able, we are on a mission to improve math teaching. 

Pam  00:17

We know that algorithms are amazing human achievements, but they're not good teaching tools because mimicking step-by-step procedures can actually trap students into using less sophisticated reasoning than the problems are intended to develop.

Kim  00:30

In this podcast, we help you teach mathing, building relationships with your students, and grappling with mathematical relationships.

Pam  00:37

We invite you to join us to make math more figure-out-able. 

Kim  00:42

Hi there.

Pam  00:43

Kim! What's up? 

Kim  00:45

Nothing. Oh, but I told you I got a new car the other day, right? 

Pam  00:49

Yes. How's it going? How's the car? 

Kim  00:51

It's good. I got to tell you. I did something dumb this morning. 

Pam  00:54

Is it... Hey, is it new or is it new to you?

Kim  00:56

It's new to me. It's fairly new, but it's new to me.

Pam  00:59

Yeah. You and I are both the same. We don't usually get new new. Anyway, go ahead. Carry on. Carry on. 

Kim  01:04

Yeah,

Pam  01:05

Yep.

Kim  01:05

so I dropped my kids off for school, and I was tinkering with it because, you know, the voice command stuff and the phone. I never set any of that up. Ever, ever, ever.

Pam  01:17

You decided to? 

Kim  01:18

I don't connect my phone. Any of the things. But I did... My youngest, Cooper, got in the car with me yesterday, and he pressed a button and made me read all the voice command things. There's like 10 prompts. And so, he found it very entertaining, and we did the thing, so it was set up for voice command. So, today, on my steering wheel button, I pressed it, and I was like, "Change the station to..." blah, blah, blah. And in that moment, I went, "Wait a second. I wonder if the car cares if I say 100.7 or one hundred and seven 1/10s. You know, because people care. People get upset about the point. So, I said 100.7. Or whatever the number was.  And then I said, "Change the radio station to one hundred and seven 1/10s." And it did it! (unclear). So, my car accepts point and tenths. 

Pam  02:10

Alright.

Kim  02:11

Very exciting. 

Pam  02:11

That's... There you go. 

Kim  02:13

It's such a dumb mathing to do. 

Pam  02:14

Only you would test out your car to see how it would hear the decimal. 

Kim  02:19

I mean, does that mean they intentionally programmed it? 

Pam  02:22

Oh, totally. Yeah. Yep. 

Kim  02:25

Somebody mathy in the... 

Pam  02:27

I mean, or the language model they use includes those as equivalents. I'll have to ask my programmer kids, see what they say. 

Kim  02:33

You should test your car if you have a voice thing. 

Pam  02:36

I don't know that I have voice command. I'll have to. Yeah. 

Kim  02:40

Okay. Anyway, dumb life story.

Pam  02:43

Speaking of, I got to remember my car is in the shop. I got to pick it up today. Okay, that's a thing to remember.

Kim  02:50

Listen, we're both a little batty today.

Pam  02:52

Whoo! 

Kim  02:52

You should know, listeners.

Pam  02:53

It's going to be great, everybody! Oh, man. Alright, alright.

Kim  02:58

Here we go.

Pam  02:58

Kim. 

Kim  02:59

So, wait, I have a review for you. 

Pam  03:01

Oh, okay.

Kim  03:01

Another "before we start".

Pam  03:02

Okay. You're starting today. 

Kim  03:04

We do love the reviews. It makes my heart happy.

Pam  03:08

(unclear). Yeah. 

Kim  03:08

And, as you know, it helps algorithms to see the things. And we want everyone to listen in. But we got one not too terribly long. It's been a couple months, but not too terribly long ago. And it says, "I absolutely love listening to the podcast. I'm a third grade teacher, and I've been trying for years to teach math differently. This podcast is filled with great ideas and great conversation to help any math teacher or parent. Thank you, for what you do." So thank you. JayMoore456. Appreciate that so much. Glad it's helpful.

Pam  03:39

And I see you pasted it in my notes here, and the title is "Wow!!" with two exclamation points. That's fun. Five stars. Thanks. And yeah, it helps everybody see the podcast more, helps us spread the word. So, thank you for the reviews and ratings, everybody. We appreciate when you do that. Nice. Hey, Kim, so you know that not too long ago, I had a chance to go to Europe and work with teachers in four different countries. I had such a good time.

Kim  04:04

Yeah.  Mmhm. 

Pam  04:05

One of the fun things that happened while I was there is that I played, I Have, You Need with every group where I was. I was in several different classrooms, different grade levels. I think I did everything from kindergarten to... They would say year 11. Maybe it was year 10. I think it was year 10. It was pretty high level math in that IB school. Yeah, I just had such a good time playing I Have, You Need. And one of my favorite times that I played I Have, You Need was when I was in Germany. So, I was in Hannover, Germany. And while I was there, I got to talk to a... I believe he's in seventh grade. So, Gustavo, don't be too mad at me if I got that wrong. But Gustavo. And I think he's in seventh grade. And we were actually on a walking tour of the city, and we just started playing, I Have, You Need. And it was so stinking fun! One of the things I said... Well, we played it a little bit with whole numbers. And then I said something about, "Hey, how about fractions?" And he kind of looked at me like, "Fractions." I mean, at least that's how I'm interpreting his look. And I was like, "Yeah, no problem?" You know, and so I said something like, "If I have four-fifths, what do you need to make 1?" And he kind of thought. He kind of looked at me. And then all of a sudden, he kind of lit up, and he's like, "One-fifth?" And I was like, "Four-fifths and one-fifth, that makes a total of 1?" He's like, "Yeah." And I was like, "Okay. Alright, then how about..." And then I just went on. I don't know something like... I think maybe three-fourths. If I have three-fourths. What do I need to make 1? And he kind of looked at me like, "Is there a trick here?" And he's like, "It's one-fourth." And I was like, "Yeah." So then I had done two where it was just 1 away from the total. So, like seven-eighths or something like that. So, then I said, "Well, what if I have three-eighths? And then he thought for just a little bit longer than just, you know, the 1 away, the one unit fraction away. And he goes, "Well, if you have..." What did I just say? Three-eighths?" "If you have three-eighths, then you need five-eighths to make the..." And then he kind of looked at me like, "Are fractions are just that? Like, that's..." And he said something along those lines. Like, "I can just really think about fractions?" And I was like, "Go, Gustavo! You are thinking about fractions!" Yeah, It was really fun. 

Kim  06:05

Yeah. So, you know, we talk about, I Have, You Need kind of a lot. And we have a podcast episode. Or maybe two. I don't know. We'll put them in the show notes. I feel like that's one of the early routines that we talked about. Maybe even like episode six or something. So, but if you haven't heard us talk about I Have, You Need, it's just a routine that we love that's actually kind of lame, but can be used in lots of areas. You say that because you made it up. It's not lame! It's not lame at all. I mean... 

Pam  06:23

It's just simple.

Kim  06:25

simple. It's simple, but it's effective. And I think what's really cool about I have, You Need is that it can be used in lots of different content areas. So, the routine is super simple. It's you pick a total amount, and then... So, like let's say total 10 for young kids. And I would say, "If I have 8, then the students would say, "You need..." Or I would say to them "You need?" And they say, "2." And so, there's lots of different iterations, lots of ways to play. You could do it with time, and money, and fractions, and decimals, and lots of stuff. Bigger numbers with 100. It's

Pam  07:06

Angle measure.

Kim  07:07

Yeah.

Pam  07:08

Yeah. 

Kim  07:09

And I think that's what I love about it is there's a wide range. We've heard people all over say that they've used it in some some interesting ways they've used it. But also we've heard some people do some other things with it. So, we thought we'd collect some questions and some ideas that people had and just beat those around. But...

Pam  07:29

And maybe... Can I just say a quick general thing? 

Kim  07:32

Yeah.

Pam  07:32

I'm kind of interrupting.

Kim  07:33

No, go ahead. 

Pam  07:33

So, a quick general thing is it is a routine that gets students thinking about partners. 

Kim  07:39

Yeah.

Pam  07:39

About decomposing a total into two chunks.

Kim  07:43

Mmhm.

Pam  07:43

And we tend to choose important totals. 

Kim  07:47

Right.

Pam  07:47

Where those chunks, those two partners, that they're handy. They are the partners or the chunks that mathy people sort of naturally play with. And if the rest of us don't know that's a thing, then we might not play with them, and we might not then own those partners as much. And so, we've now made it like this is a thing. It's a thing to play with these partners of these helpful totals.  Maybe 180 for angles. 360. Maybe 90 for triangles.

Kim  08:11

I'm glad you said that. Thank you. Because we don't play I Have, You Need with total 13 or total 27. It's generally 1, 10, 100, 1,000. Yeah,

Pam and Kim  08:28

Yeah, yeah. 

Pam  08:30

Mmhm.

Kim  08:30

So, you know, we have talked in the past about how helpful that is to know partners of 10, 100, and 1,000, but I don't... And I think we've talked about it being helpful, useful in the Get to a Friendly Number strategy. So, if you're adding numbers and you're at 973, knowing the partner of 73 and 27 is useful, so that you can add 27 to get to 1000. (unclear).

Pam  08:58

We might almost need to slow that down just (unclear). 

Kim  09:00

Oh, okay. Yeah. 

Pam  09:00

Yeah, so did you say? 973?

Kim  09:02

973.

Pam  09:03

So, 973 plus anything, some crazy 300, 7, whatever number. I can say to myself, "Well, if I can just add the partner to get to 1,000, then all I have to do is add what's left over, and then that's just 1, 000 plus that leftover." Bam! That becomes a real doable problem. So, that partner becomes really helpful.

Kim  09:23

Right. And we talk a lot about friendly numbers and how useful they are, so Getting to a Friendly Number is a fantastic strategy.

Pam  09:30

Mmhm. 

Kim  09:31

And I don't know that we've spent as much time talking about how helpful partners are for the Over strategy.

Pam  09:40

Mmm, mmhm. 

Kim  09:41

So, if I'm adding a number like... Pick a number plus 9,946.

Pam  09:48

So, some four digit number plus 9, 946. Okay.

Kim  09:53

I might say, "Man, I don't want to add 9,946. I want to add 10,000." So, adding a little bit too much to go over,and then just back up how much too much I've gone.

Pam  10:07

Yeah, (unclear).

Kim  10:08

But I would need to know that 9946 is (unclear).

Pam  10:14

Just 54 away, mmhm.

Kim  10:16

Right. So, that partnership shows up in Get to a Friendly Number but also helpful for the Over strategy.

Pam  10:25

That makes kind of sense. Does the same thing work with subtraction? If I was going to subtract Over? 

Kim  10:31

Well, you want to give us an example?

Pam  10:33

So, like if you were to do something like, I don't know, 83 minus 26. 

Kim  10:37

Mmhm.

Pam  10:38

Could you think about 83 minus 30? But then you'd have to know that partner 26 to 30.

Kim  10:44

Yeah.

Pam  10:45

Yeah. (unclear).

Kim  10:46

So, it's got us talking about how much this idea, this partnership shows up in lots of different strategies, in lots of different ways.

Pam  10:54

So, the partners are really super helpful, yeah.

Kim  10:57

Yeah. 

Pam  10:58

So, Kim, I hear that as we've been talking to people around the world about I Have, You Need that there's some misconceptions happening. There's some things happening out there that we go, "Oh, actually, not what we meant."

Kim  11:11

Yeah.

Pam  11:11

Maybe not as helpful. And so, tell us about some of those.

Kim  11:16

One is that sometimes people will think this routine is the same as "I Have, Who Has," which is another routine where you give kids cards or some clues, and one person would say something like, "I have 20 plus 4." And then a kid holding the number 24 would say, "I have 24. Who has..." blank. So, it's kind of a pattern they clue throughout the room. That's not the routine that we're talking about.

Pam  11:45

That's kind of a "get up and move", kind of like alternate way of having kids kind of have an activity to practice stuff.

Kim  11:55

Mmhm.

Pam  11:55

Is that an okay way to say that? 

Kim  11:56

Yeah. 

Pam  11:57

So, that's a routine. "I Have, Who Has". Not what we're talking about.

Kim  12:01

Yeah.

Pam  12:01

In any way. Not the same. 

Kim  12:03

Yeah.

Pam  12:03

Yeah.

Kim  12:04

We also have heard students or teachers talk about how there's a speed component to it, that for some reason, kids need to be very fast at finding the partners. And we're not in any way suggesting that we want to put a timer to it, that we want to, you know, snap our fingers, that we want to shout out super quickly, to race. With time and with experience, we definitely see kids getting more fluent, and once they've shared some strategies, then they have some ways to think about the numbers, so they become quicker. But this is not a speed based routine in any way.

Pam  12:42

Yeah, it's far more important that their brain travels the path of figuring out the partner several times than it is for them to... We are not suggesting any way that they rote memorize these partners. 

Kim  12:56

It's not about a flash card where you try to come up with some song, a rap, a rhyme, or gimmick to memorize these partners. The important part is that your brain travels the path of figuring the partner because there's a lot of connections that you're making and relationships you're forming about just mathematical relationships as you do that. And then there's a natural consequence that if you do it often enough, then those become partners that often, that you just own or that you configure more fluently. And that's the important part of it. It's not about, "Go rote memorize this stuff." It's not about how quick you are. It's really more about how sophisticated you're thinking about that. Yeah? Would you agree? Yeah. Yeah.

Pam  13:38

Yeah.  Alright, so what are some questions that have come up?

Kim  13:42

Okay, so one person sent a comment in that said, "I've recently watched Kim model I Have, You Need." And you can check that out on the website. We have a link to some examples and video. And this person said, "I love it! I'm a math interventionist trying to implement this with my fourth graders." 

Pam  14:00

Whoo, good job. Go, go, go! (unclear). 

Kim  14:01

Fantastic! "I've been able to do make a 10 and make a 20 with them..." 

Pam  14:02

Way to go! Total, right? That means the total's 10 or the total's 20. Okay.

Kim  14:11

"...with them seeing the relationships." So, it looks like they're doing total 10 and total 20 quite well. "Is it okay to give kids 100 charts to see the jumps?" I'm assuming they're moving into partners of 100. "Is it okay to give them 100 chart, so they can see the jumps?"

Pam  14:28

Oh, I can't wait to hear what you're going to say. 

Kim  14:30

Well, I'm going to recommend that there are relationships that can be seen on a 100 chart. 

Pam  14:37

Mmhm.

Kim  14:37

But we would highly recommend that as you share strategies for 100, partners of 100, that you represent them on a number line. So, there's a couple of major strategies that we pull out with I Have, You Need, and as kids think about Getting to a Friendly Number or Adding a Friendly Number, it's much more useful to see those on a number line.

Pam  15:00

Mmhm. 

Kim  15:02

Yeah, I don't... 

Pam  15:03

And I'll pop in with why. 

Kim  15:05

Yeah, go ahead.

Pam  15:06

If I'm on a hundreds chart, and I use it not to sort of investigate patterns, but I use it as a tool to find the partner, it propels kids into counting by ones.

Kim  15:19

Yeah. 

Pam  15:19

So, if I say I have 24, what do you need to make 100? The kid goes and finds 24, and now they're thinking about what does it take for me to get from 24 to 30, and then 30 up to 100. Well, that 24 to 30, I got to count by ones. And that 30 up to 100, I got to count by one 10s. Now, I could do the other major strategy, which is sort of go from that 24 up by 10s until I get to 94. But again, I'm counting by one 10 at a time. And then I'm, again, stuck counting up 6 to get from that 94 to 100. If we're dealing with partners of 100, we're trying to move kids from counting by one to using relationships, additive relationships. So, we don't want to promote, "Hey, let me have you just have this tool that allows you to get answers using less sophisticated reasoning." No, no, no. So, it might be okay, I don't know, once. 

Kim  16:09

Yeah.

Pam  16:09

To pull out a hunter's chart and say, "Where's 24? And what did you guys just tell me the partner was? You just told me that the partner was 76? Is this stuff left over 76? How do you know?"

Kim  16:20

Yeah.

Pam  16:21

Like, I could see that like once or maybe twice.

Kim  16:25

Yeah, kind of maybe as proof to say each time we're filling up the whole hundreds chart, we're...

Pam  16:30

Yeah. (unclear).

Kim  16:31

(unclear).

Pam  16:31

A sense of what's going on, but then quickly to go to a number line. And again, we're still filling up. We start at this 24. We're filling from there up to the 100. But we don't want it to be a tool that could propel kids back into counting by ones. 

Kim  16:45

Yeah.

Pam  16:46

Cool. 

Kim  16:46

We got another comment or question, and this person said, "I'm thinking out loud, really." Which is kind of cool. "I Have, You Need can be played with any numbers, right? I teach fifth grade, and we're starting mixed number subtraction. I'd start out with whole numbers and get more complex, just like normal. So, if I have 3 and 3/4, I need 5. I have 2 and 1/2, I need 4 and a 1/4." So, I think there's two parts to this. One, "It could be done with any numbers, right?" And I think we kind of talked about that a little bit when you say any numbers. Time with 60 minutes.

Pam  16:54

Nice.  Money with 100.

Kim  17:16

Right. Angles with 180, 360. So, yes. Lots of content areas. But the question of "any number" is interesting because we would say that those benchmark numbers are the ones that we really want kids to wrap their head around. So, maybe not I have 2 and a 1/2, I need 4 and a 1/4. But maybe I have 2 and a 1/2, I need 5. Or I have 2 and a 1/2, I need 6.

Pam  17:55

I like 2 and a 1/2, I need 10. (unclear).

Kim  17:56

Yeah, I do too. 

Pam  17:58

It's all about the 10. 

Kim  17:59

Yeah. 

Pam  18:00

I do think the question I have 2 and a 1/2, I need 4 and a 1/4 as a missing addend problem is a fine problem for kids to think about. I don't know that I would do it in I Have, You Need. 

Kim  18:11

Yeah. I think part of the I Have, You Need thing for us is really about developing the relationships, and over time, becoming fluent. And I don't know that we need kids to be fluent with 2 and a 1/2 to get to 4 and 1/4. Yeah, it seems like a single, standalone problem.

Pam  18:29

So, again, it's not bad that kids would ever do that problem. We just... I don't think I would do it during I Have, You Need.

Kim  18:35

Right.

Pam  18:36

Do you agree? 

Kim  18:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Pam  18:37

Yeah, so we're definitely going to have missing addend problems, where the total some random number and the first addend is some random number. You're going to do that. Kids are going to solve problems like that. I don't think we are... We're not recommending that that happens during I Have, You Need.

Kim  18:52

Yeah.

Pam  18:53

Then it becomes... We want I Have, You Need to be kind of quick, kind of. Quick, not speed wise, but like snappy. It's like a snappy. We want it to be fun. We want it to be something where they're kind of like almost game-like.

Kim  19:06

And it's routine, so it's not brand new and super challenging every single time. There's a point to it. You know, I just thought of something that I've heard people talk about, that I didn't jot down. And one of the ideas that people have sometimes is having a student come up to the front and call out the numbers.

Pam  19:25

Mmhm.

Kim  19:25

Which I think can be done well.

Pam  19:28

An okay, every once in a while thing.

Kim  19:31

But there is an art as the teacher to choosing the numbers in what order and what range of numbers. So, I think when you have partners play together, and you kind of restrict the size of numbers, the magnitude of the numbers that they're working with, and it's, it's purposeful. "Hey, everyone, today we're going to work on 10." Or we're working on 20. But especially at the beginning of introducing the routine, and until kids really understand what's going on, you know, there are some guidelines that we generally follow. 

Pam  20:04

So, just to teachers? 

Kim  20:06

Yeah.

Pam  20:06

Yeah. Like, start with numbers that are closer to the total.

Kim  20:11

Right.

Pam  20:12

So, that kids if kids are counting up, they don't count as much.

Kim  20:16

Mmhm.

Pam  20:16

Start with... If you're doing a total 100, start with the multiples of 10, the decades, then go to fives, then go to ones. But still, maybe with numbers that are closer to 100 before they kind of get the feel. But then also a nice thing that teachers can do is if they say, "I have 76. What do you need?" And when the student says, "24". Have we used that number already today? I don't know why I chose that one again. Then you might, right after that, say I have 24." 

Kim  20:44

Yeah, sneaky. 

Pam  20:45

(unclear) notice. Yeah, and so that purposeful number choosing? You know, it's funny, Kim? Is kind of like a Problem String. It's like you're stringing the... It's a purposeful sequence of problems. So, I think we're okay with having students play partners. We're okay with a student calling it out for the class every once in a while. But we also want to highly recommend that the teacher thinks about the order that they're providing the numbers. Don't let that stop you from starting.

Kim  20:52

Mmhm.  Sure.

Pam  21:14

Like, dive in and just give random numbers. But over time, be aware that you want to kind of get better at the sequence of numbers that you throw out. Yeah?

Kim  21:22

Yeah. 

Pam  21:22

What else you got? 

Kim  21:23

Okay, somebody said, "Playing I Have, You Need to 10 with my five-year-old tonight."

Pam  21:27

Whoo!

Kim  21:27

Super cool. Going along rapidly. And then I say I have 3, to which she suddenly replied, you need 3, and 3, and 1." I think it's because she loves 3 plus 3 plus 3 equals 9. She was able to work out 3 plus 3 plus 1 equals 7." And it reminded me. Super cute. It reminded me of long time ago. Gosh, we're going to take us back 20 years, Pam, where we did some work when you first started in the school that I was teaching in, and we did things like ways to make the number of the day.

Pam  21:59

Mmhm. 

Kim  22:00

And I...

Pam  22:01

Today's Number, I think is what we called it. Yeah.  Plus 1,000

Kim  22:04

as a third grade teacher, I would get these students who would say things like, "Today's number is 80," and they would write this long string of 20 plus 20 minus 20 plus 20 plus 5 minus 5. Like, a long (unclear).  So, minus 1000 times 4 divided by 4.  Yeah.

Pam  22:21

Yeah, craziness.

Kim  22:22

Which does have some nice equivalency conversations built into it. But also there's a time to be creative, and there's a time to just get it done. Just be efficient. And so, in I Have, You Need, that might not be the time where we talk about multiple addends.

Pam  22:41

Mmhm.

Kim  22:43

Because (unclear)...

Pam  22:43

Partners.

Kim  22:44

Yeah.

Pam  22:44

Two. I give you one. You give me the partner. 

Kim  22:47

Yeah, and remember that part of the work that we do with I Have, You Need is in support of some bigger goals. So, it's in support of this idea that there are strategies and relationships we want to develop in kids. So, if we're talking about Getting to a Friendly Number, we'd love for students to get there quickly, to get there...

Pam and Kim  23:05

Efficiently. 

Kim  23:06

To get there (unclear).

Pam  23:07

Big jumps. Bigger, fewer jumps. Sorry, I keep interrupting you. Ugh, Pam!

Kim  23:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's okay. And we want kids to have creativity and efficiency, so I think part of the conversation about when do we want which is super useful. 

Pam  23:21

Yeah, have that conversation with your students. So, in this problem, are we trying to be creative? We're trying to be efficient. And yeah. Excellent. Cool. Alright, what else you got? Anything

Kim  23:32

Okay. Yeah, one more. So, this is kind of a big question that happens. And I'm so grateful. This is a parent who said, "I'm building my number sense. I love the I Have, You Need game that I learned in the workshop." So, one of your Building Powerful Numeracy workshops, we talked about I Have, You Need. And she said, "When my target number is above 20, my answer in the unit place is correct." So, the ones place. "But for some unknown reason, I'm confused in the tens place. So, this is a very real, very common thing. "For example, if the target number is 50, and I have 11, you need question mark, I'm confused. If the answer is 39 or 29. After thinking a lot, I figured out it's 39. I want to be efficient and spontaneous in getting the answer. Do you have any ideas or tips on how to solve this tens place issue?"

Pam  23:32

else?  What do you got on that, Kim?

Kim  24:29

Well, you know, when I first read this, it was interesting. And we actually chat about this because often when somebody says 11, we hear kids say 49 as a choice because they're used to saying 10 and 40, so when you say 11, they sometimes think 49. The 10 and the 40.

Pam  24:50

I almost wish we were talking about total of 100 because to me that's the one that we play more often. 

Kim  24:53

Okay.

Pam  24:54

So, we often... Yeah, if I say I have 88 kids will often say they need 22 because 80 and 20. They're just like, "Bam. I got those partners of 10. 8 and 2. So, I got the partners of 100. 80 and 20." So, they're 10 off that way, right? 

Kim  25:09

Yeah.

Pam  25:09

Yeah. Mmhm.

Kim  25:11

So, in a classroom, if I've got students who are saying 22 instead of 12 or 88, then I would right away put 80 in their number line, and I would ask them how they're thinking about it. So, if they're just knee jerk, I see the 20. So, we'll put it on number line, and we'll see where we land with 22. But in this situation, it made me think, oh, are we just call and response but we're not talking about strategy? Then this continues to happen. So, general, big Idea strategies are Get to a Friendly Number or Add a Friendly Number. So, if I say 88, a lot of times, students are thinking, "Well, 2 more gets me to 90. And then 10 more gets me to 100. So, I added the 2, and then I added the 10, and that's where the 12 comes from."  Other groups of students start with the 88, and they might say, "Well, I need 10 more to get to 98, and then 2 more to get to 100." Right. So, we can talk about the equivalency of you had a 10 or 2 or 2 and a 10 as the jumps that you make. And so, in that sharing of strategies, students start to understand, "Oh, well, when I'm doing 22, I'm going over," and and we get to talk about how you're landing on 110. And so, you know, I feel like we've said it, but maybe not emphasized enough that part of the work in I Have, You Need is this discussion of strategy, that that should be a heavy part, especially early on, as students are trying to figure out how do I come up with that second addend? 

Pam  26:44

And not just guess, right?

Kim  26:45

Right.

Pam  26:45

It's not just guessing. Like, what relationships am I using? 

Kim  26:48

Right. Absolutely. 

Pam  26:50

Can I just do one more quick example? So, (unclear). 

Kim  26:52

Yeah.

Pam  26:52

(unclear) I have 67. Sometimes we hear kids say, "60. That's 40, so 43."

Kim  26:57

Mmhm. 

Pam  26:58

And so, then we might say, "Well..." We might actually do that, put 67 and add 43 and realize we're a little bit over. 

Kim  27:05

Mmhm.

Pam  27:05

And talk about how the 7 and the 3 create a 10.

Kim  27:10

Mmhm. 

Pam  27:11

So, the 60 and the 40, sure that created 100, but you've got these extra ones creating a 10, so you're actually creating 110 when you do it that way.

Kim  27:19

And that happens every time, right? So, when that happens, you know, make note of those. Put them on the board and raise the wonder, why do we keep (unclear) at 110? Which is a brilliant place value conversation. 

Pam  27:19

Absolutely.

Pam and Kim  27:20

Yeah. 

Pam  27:20

So, I think the point you're making here is if students are guessing or not, but as students are figuring out the partners, part of the power of the routine is to have the conversation about strategies.

Kim  27:45

Yeah. 

Pam  27:45

And put up. Maybe this is a great time for my favorite no. 

Kim  27:48

Mmhm.

Pam  27:49

Put up what's happening, and find that extra 10, and have the conversation. Put, model the thinking on an open number line. The students can see. Make the thinking visual. Fantastic. 

Kim  27:59

Yeah. So, we have a free download about I Have, You Need. You can grab that at mathisfigureoutable.com/youneed. If you haven't ever grabbed it, you need that, you can share it with some friends. I Have you need is for everyone.

Pam  28:13

What a great URL, mathisfigureoutable.com/youneed because you need, I Have, You Need. Ya'll, thank you for tuning in. And thanks, Kim, for a fantastic conversation. And thank you for teaching more and more real math. To find out more about the Math is Figure-Out-Able movement, visit mathisfigureoutable.com. Let's keep spreading the word that Math is Figure-Out-Able!