Random Phone Checks?

Should I just randomly check my kid’s phone? Is it an invasion of privacy? What do I even look for? How do I not become a crazy helicopter parent?

Transcript

Mandy Majors: 0:08

Welcome to the Next Talk podcast. We are passionate about keeping kids safe in an overexposed world.

Kim Elerick: 0:15

It's Mandy and Kim and we're navigating tech, culture and faith with our kids.

Mandy Majors: 0:20

Random phone checks.

Kim Elerick: 0:22

Seems like something that is pretty straightforward, but we've been getting a lot of questions about it lately.

Mandy Majors: 0:27

Well, we say that little catchphrase a lot around here and I think people want to know more Like what do you mean by that? And one of the deeper questions that I've gotten too and I've gotten this a couple times now is okay, my kid and I we do have an understanding that I'm going to go through their phone and all of that kind of stuff. But when I reference a group text or I say, hey, this is happening, they feel violated. And then I'm asking myself should I be checking their phone or not? I feel like I'm in it too much. I'm kind of being helicoptery and I want to tackle that because I think that's a really good question. And I love that parents are struggling with it, because here's the thing we don't want our kids to feel smothered by us, but at the same time we have a responsibility to make sure they're safe on that phone. So what is the balance of that?

Kim Elerick: 1:14

Well, and that is what it always comes back to, is that balance? And unfortunately that means it's never a black or white answer. It's navigating what's best for your family, and how do I do this without creating tension in our relationship, but still keeping my kids safe? So that's how we're going to approach this conversation today.

Mandy Majors: 1:33

So the first thing I want to do is say why we believe in random phone checks. Okay, one of the things we say often around here is your phone is not a diary, it is not a private thing where you can do whatever you want on. And our job as parents is to paint that picture before they get a phone and set up the expectation and say, at any time I can go through that phone, I pay for it and it is actually my responsibility as a parent to make sure you're safe on that thing, because there's a lot of dangers that you're not even aware about yet that I'm making sure you're protected from.

Kim Elerick: 2:09

So really quickly, if you haven't given your kid a phone yet and you're about to, or you've just given them, I think this is super important that you lay this out for them before you give them a phone or right after. If you missed it, it's okay, circle back and say, hey, this is a phone that we're paying for, that we're providing for you, but it's not necessarily all yours. We can have access to it, we've provided it for you and we want to make sure you're safe on it. But you've got to communicate that to your kid or they're going to feel blindsided if suddenly you're talking to them about things you're seeing on their phone and they didn't expect for you to be going through it. So definitely have the conversation.

Mandy Majors: 2:48

Of course, it's going to feel like an invasion. Yes, I have to see if you've never had that conversation and when you do, circle back, apologize, say I missed this step. I'm learning how to parent a phone. You know we didn't have these when I was a kid and so I'm learning how to do it and I totally missed this. What you want to say in that situation is also I trust you. This is not about my trust level of you. This is about me getting educated on the dangers that are on that phone, and I've been following this nonprofit and they have been teaching me all this stuff about grooming and pornography and online sex trafficking and I'm getting educated and so I want to make sure that I'm protecting you from all of that. I think that's the way you lay it out and kind of make it your thing. We also have a show called why Don't you Trust Me? And dive deeper into that show if your kid keeps asking you that question.

Kim Elerick: 3:43

So now, let's say you've laid this out for your kid and you've told them you know, the phone is not your diary, I'm going to check it at any time. And you start going and doing these random phone checks, meaning you don't tell your kid, hey, every Friday at 7pm I'm going to be going through your phone. You don't want to do that. This is something literally, like we say, random that you do on different days at different times so that in case your kid has gotten caught up in something that's not good, they're not hiding it from you. The idea is that you're able to kind of oversee their activity online and make sure that they're safe, and the best way to do that is randomly.

Kim Elerick: 4:22

And so let's say you're doing that and you start going through their text messages and their social media and you see something that concerns you, and then you also see some things that are just weird or troubling. Do we really want to talk to them about everything that's on their phone? That is the biggest question that I think we get from parents. Like, should I talk to them about this? Should I tackle this issue? Oh, they handled this bad. I don't like how they use this word. And then they feel like they're up in their kid's business and it shuts down conversation.

Mandy Majors: 4:54

Well, you got to be real careful with this, because you overuse this phone check to smother them. They're going to shut down real fast, so you cannot do that. First thing, too, I want to say before we get into this is is when your kid first gets a phone, you're going to be doing random phone checks, often Just because they're flying solo for the first time and you just want to make sure everything's OK. And a couple of times the first times that I did this with both of my kids it would just be random times that they were hanging out in our family room with their phone and I would say, hey, give me your phone, it's time for a random phone check, just so I could reiterate to them this is happening. As they get older, I don't do that Right, and as they get older, I don't check as often if I don't have anything to be concerned about.

Mandy Majors: 5:42

Now, if I got a kid who's you know got anger issues, I'm seeing a drop in grades I'm going to be in that phone one night because what is going on? Something's happening here, and is it? Is it a phone issue or something going down that I need to be aware of? So again, this is a grow with your child kind of guideline, as we say all the time and don't miss this, they can't be 16. And you say give me your phone. That's weird. You do that with a 12 or 13 year old.

Kim Elerick: 6:14

Yes, you know, start when, when they get their phone, whatever age it is, start right away and, like you said often, and then it eases off Because hopefully just like we say kind of letting the kite out you want to be able to trust them.

Kim Elerick: 6:29

You've seen a pattern in their text messages and on their social media that they're making good choices and so you don't have to check it as often. I will even say, in our house it's kind of become funny the random phone checks, because my son sometimes will say, oh, mom, you're going to get a kick out of the, the texts when you do a random phone check next, because he's like you're just going to be like what? Or he'll tell me a story and he's like, wait till you read this one, because he knows I'm going to check it and he knows he's making good choices, so he's not worried about it. If your kid is hiding their phone from you when you walk by, or they seem worried when you are going to do a phone check, that's definitely a red flag that they might be deleting things or doing things that are not good, and so maybe it's time to increase your phone checks and change the times up so that you can see what they're doing online.

Mandy Majors: 7:17

Well and don't freak out. If your kid is doing that. Don't freak out and go to worst case scenario. I would.

Mandy Majors: 7:22

I want to say that, but also be in tune to it and realize you may need to be circling back to have some conversations, especially if you find something on their phone like pornography. You have to ask yourself did I ever talk to my kid about pornography? And if you didn't, like, you own a little bit of this and you have to apologize for not equipping them about pornography and the dangers of it and how to say no to it and why to say no to it. And if you haven't done that, you have to apologize. That tears down walls where maybe your kid then will own his or her part in watching the pornography too, but you got to own your part that you didn't equip them for that.

Mandy Majors: 8:00

Before we get into the specifics of should I address this or should I address that, I want to talk about specifically some things you can look at when you do a random phone check.

Mandy Majors: 8:13

So one of the things that I think a lot of parents miss is this If they have social media like Instagram or TikTok, scrolling through their feed or their reels or their for you page or whatever. It's going to give you a glimpse into what algorithm they're in. So this is going to give you, especially on TikTok when kids get in a crazy deep, dark hole of algorithm. On TikTok, you're going to be able to see the kinds of content that your kids are seeing over and over and what they've been clicking on the most. This is important and don't miss this step. Every time I tell a parent to do this, they're like I never thought of that, because that really gives you an idea of the world that your kids are entering in social media. We did a whole show on the different worlds of TikTok and if you don't know about that, go listen to that show because it was very, very important about the algorithms.

Kim Elerick: 9:10

I think that's such a great point because we do want to know the world that they're spending their time in.

Kim Elerick: 9:15

What are the topics, what is the tone of what they're focusing on and hanging out in and who they're talking to.

Kim Elerick: 9:23

Now, if you have younger kids or kids that are not on social media, like mine, like I, have a kid who has a phone but YouTube is his only form of social media. He's just not interested in the others yet. But looking at his algorithm on YouTube and then also his group texts really helps me to see where he's at mentally, like what are his friend groups talking about? What's happening socially, where are they at? And that gives me a really good idea of what my kid is into, not so that I can pinpoint him and corner him into a conversation about what I don't like, but so that I can have good conversation about what he's interested in. And that is so helpful in those talk times that you have, whether it's out playing basketball or when you're tucking your kids in bed at night. Being able to know the world that they are interested in and what's going on gives you such great content to bring up conversation and be relevant with your kids.

Mandy Majors: 10:23

Yeah, this is so good because this actually is where I want to spend the bulk of our time here on this show about figuring out when do you say I found this on your phone? Versus using the content that you saw on the phone to create conversation. And I think that's where the real gold is. When they were little, when they were your kids ages, kim, I would say I saw this on your phone. Explain this to me, and I would be very direct with them because they were young and they knew, now that my kids are older, like we've never had the conversation, that I'm not monitoring their phone. They know that I'm doing random phone checks. They know that I'm out here hanging out and I can look through it at any time. Right.

Mandy Majors: 11:05

But I very rarely say to my 16 year old I saw this on your phone, what is going on here? Instead, what I will do is gather context of what's happening. So, for example and I got this question a dad said to me I'm seeing these group texts and there's this one kid that I just think it's red flags all over the place with this kid. Should I bring this to my daughter's attention? This is a red flag friend kind of thing. I'm seeing signs here and I said here's the thing, if you bring that up, she's gonna feel violated, like you are super in her business, cause she was kind of older, right. I said what if, instead, on the way home from school or when you're in the car with her, taking her to school, whenever going to practice, whatever, why don't you say to her let's talk about your friend group and go through each one, and when you get to this person that you're concerned about, say how do you feel about this person? Like, what is their family life? What do you see in this friend? What do you value about this person? Right? Is there anything that makes you uncomfortable about this person?

Mandy Majors: 12:17

Listen, by doing so, you actually are gathering context from your kid to see if your kid can discern and see the red flags for themselves, and that tells you more about your kid and what you need to teach your kid than actually just calling out this group chat and saying this kid gives me the heebie-jeebie. Oh my gosh, this is. You know what I mean. Like now you're actually learning your kid. Does my kid have the gift of discernment? Can my kid see the red flags for themselves? Because some kids can and some kids can't, and you need to know if your kids have that gift or not. Like it is a life skill that some people have and some people don't.

Kim Elerick: 13:03

Well and by determining that you know the areas of their life you need to speak into and encourage and coach.

Kim Elerick: 13:10

So if you bring this topic up and your kid is completely clueless and you're seeing all these red flags, you know you need to spend more time speaking into your kid about how to have good discernment and showing them the things to look for and here's what to be concerned about.

Kim Elerick: 13:26

And so it's kind of like switching up your thought process. A lot of times when we go into the idea of a random phone check, it's like I'm doing this to call out something wrong. Instead, flip that and think I'm doing this to see into my kid's world and how I can help them, how I can teach them, how I can guide them, how I can support them. Bring it back to your kid focus, not other people's kid's focus. Not that there won't be times when you need to speak up, like, obviously, if someone's in danger or something has crossed the line and you know we've talked about this even recently in our Teen Boy Group text show about knowing what that line is and talking with your kids about that when you really do have to get help for someone, but before they've crossed that line. It's really more about your kid than anything else and how to pour into them better, and so this really for me, I feel like, is research, like when I go right, yes yes, research on your kids.

Kim Elerick: 14:27

It's research, yes, because even though you tell your kid it's not a diary, they just say stuff, you know, and stuff comes out and sometimes it's flippant and you see their humor, you see what they're thinking about, what they're interested in, how they respond to boys, how they respond to girls, and so it's really good research in the kind of behind the scenes of your kid's life, and so I really like being able to access that and take that into the conversations with my kid. It's been super helpful.

Mandy Majors: 14:58

It's seeing your kid unfiltered.

Kim Elerick: 15:00

Honestly, that's what it is.

Mandy Majors: 15:01

That's a great way to put it. They're not worried about mom or dad standing right there, or their pastor standing next to them or their teacher standing next to them, so you're really getting to see them and their environment in that virtual world.

Kim Elerick: 15:14

And our hope is that maybe you see a little bit of rough edges, but it's nothing that is like a huge red flag. Hopefully you're able to say, okay, my kid's kind of being goofy here and maybe pushing the line a little bit, but overall, there's still who they are with me at church, online with their friends. They are, at their core, the same person, and that's what you're looking for and it gives you an opportunity to pour into those areas where you see they're pushing the boundaries, which I think is so helpful as a parent.

Mandy Majors: 15:49

Absolutely, that's so good. And here's the other thing You've got to reserve your call-out moments for the big thing. Oh, yes, so you know I and I'm talking about big things like if there's a nude, I mean that's considered and it's a classmate, that's considered child pornography, it's a felony Like you got to get involved. If there's suicidal thoughts, if there's bullying, you know if, if somebody's life is at stake, if, if, if something big is happening, those are your call-out moments. Yeah, so you are taking the phone to them.

Mandy Majors: 16:19

A call-out moment is not your kid using LMAO, if you know what that stands for, it's left my butt off. Except it's saying the A word instead of that. So so that is not a call-out moment. That is you saying oh, my kid is using an abbreviation with Cossword. I wonder when we got here and and it may be a conversation later on down the road, because now you're aware of that that's not a call-out moment for your kid. A nude, it's a call-out moment, it is. It is I get involved quickly, and so that is. That is what we want to really hone in on. This show is don't overplay your cards. Only use those call-out moments for the big things that you need to intervene on right. Then the other things they're about learning your kid and knowing what you need to focus on in the conversation and discussions, and some things that your kid may need help with.

Kim Elerick: 17:13

Absolutely, and you know, mandy, and I have said this many times on shows about tough topics is you can find a way to make it light so it's not so awkward Like sometimes when I look through the 759 million texts that come through on my kid's phone and I can see there's a definite tone and topic happening. That's not great. I'll be like bro, you dudes. I'll just say something like that, like not calling him out, not topically, not heavy, not, you're in trouble, and he'll usually just laugh and be like I know, and then we'll just talk about it. It doesn't always have to be a calling out or a deep discussion. It can just be a recognition of I'm going to say this and see if you know what I mean. And many times my kid has been like I know, I know. And then we get into these great topical discussions about what the tone and topic is right now in their text groups. And that has been really helpful too, not to make it like a super heavy thing.

Mandy Majors: 18:16

One of the other things that I want to say is, you know, finding your balance with this is if you're monitoring social media with older kids, we recommend Instagram for that first social media platform, and we did a whole show on why.

Mandy Majors: 18:28

Why that is A lot of it is because you can be logged into their Instagram account from your phone and get everything access to DMs and everything and so that is a great monitoring tool where you're not even having to use their phone, but you can access it from your phone. You can. You can get their whole Instagram account. Now that doesn't mean Instagram is holy. There's porn on Instagram, there's suicide on Instagram, there's all sorts of horrible messages on Instagram, but you can see everything more on Instagram when you're monitoring, and that's why we recommend that as the first social media platform for kids. I will say kids have to earn social media. They don't just get it when they turn a magic age and delay this as long as you can. A five year old should not have social media. Okay, the recommended age is is 13. I would not go any younger than 12, 12 or 13 is that when they start earning that first social media platform? The other thing I want to say is this in Instagram, the DMs whether you're monitoring from their phone or your phone, you can do either. One of the things that does is it will show the other person that the DM the direct messaging, the private messaging has been read. So one of the things that I honor and the way I can kind of find the balance here of being in my kids online world but also giving them a little bit of level of privacy, is I don't read the unread messages. Yeah, I wait until they read them and then I can see them.

Mandy Majors: 20:02

Now you're going to say, are they disappearing messages? Yes, there's vanish mode on Instagram, just like Snapchat, so you have to be careful with that. But also, if you're set up to get notifications on your phone of their DMs, they're coming through on your phone and so you're going to be able to see the actual first line of the messaging through that DM without opening it. This is important because you know that way you can give them a certain level of privacy. But if you see something come through and the first line is it or it's a nude photo or if it's very alarming, then you can open it without them reading it first.

Mandy Majors: 20:38

A lot of times they're just communicating. Sometimes it's during school and they're saying hey, when you get to fifth period, will you help me with this problem? And if you open that, their friend has seen that you've read it. But if your kid doesn't respond, that kid could get mad at your kid for not responding, like why are you ignoring me, bro? And so it's just again maintaining that balance. You're in their virtual world but you're not being crazy helicopter mom and you're giving them some level of a little bit of privacy with their messaging and stuff. So just finding that balance and tiptoeing around that is, I think, is really important here, so they don't feel like they can't breathe.

Kim Elerick: 21:17

Yeah, yeah, you know that's.

Kim Elerick: 21:19

That's one of those things when you think about the phone, that when you first give it to them, imagine the timeline of them leaving your house. It's got to be a process where they're learning how to manage it on their own. And if you never change the way that you read or approach or deal with the phone and the messages and what they're seeing and doing and where they're using it, then they won't be ready when they leave your house. So, yes, in the beginning you're checking it all the time, you know you're reading all the things, but you've got to allow them to have some privacy and some control as they get a little bit older so they're ready when they leave your house. And that kind of goes to my other point that I'm thinking about here. A question I get from parents sometimes is well, how am I going to find a good time to check their phone? Because usually I want to check it at night and they have it in their room. You know, I don't want to go in there and like Uh-uh, no, no.

Mandy Majors: 22:15

That's a core principle. At Next Talk no phones in bedrooms, guys.

Kim Elerick: 22:18

Yes, I mean it's still. I mean it rocks me to my core when I'll see text messages and pictures coming through at like 1 am, 2 am. You know I'm a kid's phone and I'm like dude, and even he's like, why aren't they sleeping? And so the thing is, if you've not set up that guideline again, apologize to your kid. Talk to them about just factual things, like you need good sleep.

Kim Elerick: 22:41

Looking at a screen overnight is not only bad for your health and for your sleep pattern, but things come through at night where you're going to be compromised because you're sleepy, you're not thinking, your guard is down. You don't need to be doing any of that. Your bedroom is for sleeping and for changing, and that's it. Phone needs to be either in you know mom and dad's room or in a safe place at nighttime, and then, as a parent, you have the ability to check it when you want to check it. Not that you shouldn't check it during the day too, but that just makes it easier for you and it also helps protect your kid by having that guideline.

Mandy Majors: 23:17

The best random phone checks for young kids are going to be at night, because they go to bed a little earlier. The best random phone checks when they get older, as teenagers, is going to be early in the morning, when you're up but they are not. They're still noon.

Kim Elerick: 23:29

So yeah, you've got to get in your rhythm with that.

Mandy Majors: 23:33

You've got to get it, because their phone's still charging on the island or the mud bench or something and they're still sleeping, because teenagers sleep in, especially on the weekend, so that's a good time to check. Also, your kids should be flying solo by 17. By 17, you shouldn't be on their counts anymore. That's the goal here. That way, you have a year before they're leaving your home, where they're flying solo, and you still may need to come in and parent some things, because they may get loosey-goosey on what they post and you may have to be like dude, what do you do when I'm here? I mean, kids are impulsive, they're going to make stupid mistakes. You're there helping to monitor, kind of thing, because you're still following them, even though you may not be logged into their accounts. The other thing that I want to say is we're talking a lot about giving your kids freedom, finding the balance, not checking the messages if everything looks OK, that kind of thing. I do want to say this, though Do not give more freedom if your kids are hiding stuff from you. So if you're checking their phone and you're finding things that they haven't told you about, then they shouldn't get more freedom, because there's a trust issue there and you need to tell your kid that.

Mandy Majors: 24:45

One of the things I've always said to my kids about random phone checks is you're never going to get in trouble if I find something on that phone that I already know about. What you're going to get in trouble for is if I find something on that phone during a random phone check and I have been very clear that I want that kind of stuff reported to me and then I find it because now we have a broken relationship that we got to deal with because it's a trust issue then, like I don't trust you. I know bad things are going to go down on the phone. I know you're going to get exposed to stupid stuff on the phone. All I'm asking is you report it to me. So be very clear about that in the beginning.

Mandy Majors: 25:25

And if you're doing random phone checks and you're finding things that are not good that they have not told you about no more freedom, no more extra social media platforms they're not earning anything extra until we get this relationship repaired. Just like driving a car you know you give your kid a car, they get caught speeding. You reel them in a minute, just like that kite string. You bring it in, reel it in and say, hey, wait a minute, you got to learn this lesson before you can have your keys back now. Right, it's the same way with a phone. We're not going to give more freedom if they are lying or hiding things from us.

Kim Elerick: 26:01

And you know all of this, if you have. Maybe you have older kids and younger kids or just younger kids and you're preparing yourself. That's why we say it's never too early to start with next talk principles, because all of these things carry over from when they're young to when they're older. So if you're talking to your kids about guidelines and reporting before they even have a phone, it's not new information, it's expanded information on these foundations that you've created for your family.

Kim Elerick: 26:30

So be open and honest in your conversation about what you want reported, talk about the expectation, be clear about what a random phone check is going to look like and as your kids age, then they're going to know well, this is just what we do in our family. It's not going to be a surprise. It's not always going to go great and we're. You know we mess up, because we're all human. But create the conversation. Use this as a tool, a research tool, to know your kid better, what they're doing, what their friends are into, and then also as a way to gauge how they're maturing, you know. Are they making good decisions? Are they able to rein themselves in? It's really one of those things that seems like not a huge deal random phone checks, but it is. It's such a great tool for parents on so many different levels.

Mandy Majors: 27:17

And what you don't do is every night, say I saw this on your Instagram, I saw this on your group page, so don't do that. That's crazy, that's helicoptering, that's too much. So find the balance and learn your kid, Be in the background monitoring and being involved, and dig into some amazing conversations because of the stuff you've learned on that phone. This podcast is ad-free because of all the people who donate to our nonprofit.

Kim Elerick: 27:47

Make a donation today at nexttalkorg.

Mandy Majors: 27:51

This podcast is not intended to replace the advice of a trained healthcare or legal professional, or to diagnose, treat or otherwise render expert advice regarding any type of medical, psychological or legal problem.

Kim Elerick: 28:01

Listeners are advised to consult a qualified expert for treatment.