Consent

The word consent brings to mind a lot of different ideas and conversations. Kim tackles the idea that the concept of consent has changed and now applies to young kids and social media. While Mandy sees the larger issue of rape culture and young adults understanding boundaries. On this podcast we bring together both ends of the spectrum in a practical way that you can parent through good conversation topics with your kids. 

Transcript

Mandy Majors: 0:02

Welcome to the nextTalk podcast. We are passionate about keeping kids safe in an overexposed world.

Kim Elerick: 0:09

It's Mandy and Kim, and we're navigating tech, culture and faith with our kids. So the idea for the show on consent came from this article that I read that talked about consent for babies, which sounds crazy. I remember seeing the title and as I was reading it I thought what in the world? It never dawned on me the idea that children should give consent to their parents for taking photos or videos or documenting their childhood, because when my first was born I had like a flip phone. I did not like the idea of taking video or pictures and posting it on Facebook was totally new.

Kim Elerick: 0:48

I was kind of late to the game and so it was just what everybody was doing like oh my goodness, I get to share what's happening with my kid.

Kim Elerick: 0:55

You know, the first time they eat solid food or take their first steps, and it seemed really sweet and special.

Kim Elerick: 1:02

And it never dawned on me the idea of there will be a day, when my kid grows up, that all of their life is documented socially. And so this article was by a young woman who had an interview for a job right after college, and as she was sitting in the interview and they were telling her they would do a deep dive into her social media, she realized they were going to see her in her diapers, naked, in the bathtub, you know, taking her first step, shaving her legs for the first time, all these things that her parents did not. Thinking beyond the moment, just, I'm going to share this sweet, special moment with people in my, you know, friend list or community and nothing beyond that. And she was mortified and she said my parents never gave me the opportunity to consent to having my whole life documented on social media, and that completely changed my view of the word and the idea of consent. And so Mandy and I started talking about that and that's where this show kind of began to materialize.

Mandy Majors: 2:07

Well, it's funny because, you know, one of the one of the things we always say here at Next Talk is don't broadcast your kid's business, and it's at some point you need to start asking your kid's permission to post about them, and it's always been kind of a core principle here at Next Talk, right? And when you texted me, kim, and you just said you didn't do that beautiful explanation of the article, when you texted me, you just like consent.

Kim Elerick: 2:30

We got to do a show.

Mandy Majors: 2:32

Yeah, you were like we're doing it, we need to do a show on consent, and I was like my mind went to you know, I have teenagers. So my mind went to rape, culture and boundaries and consent with, like, sexual rape. You know all of that kind of stuff at parties. But you know, that's where my mind is going. And then, as we talked about the show and what we wanted it to be and everything, we were like we're saying the same thing. It's just it's all about consent, it's all about boundaries, and we've already done a boundary show. We'll link it below. But but in this one we really kind of wanted to dive in this idea of consent and teaching consent to our kids at different ages. So I think the first step here is like okay, how do we instill this in our kids when they're little? And just practical, everyday things we can say to our kids about. Let me teach you about consent.

Kim Elerick: 3:24

Yeah, it's a. I think it's a different way to view the word in in the term of how that applies to young kids and then as our kids get older, and so I'm going to, like Mandy said, I'm going to give you some ideas and you know practical things that we've done in our household even before this article that now I'm like I'm so glad we did that, and then how that translates into kids as they get older and what you're seeing in your household. Some practical things that we've done are real basic and when my kids were little I noticed I have three kids and some of them are super, you know, friendly and talkative and more emotive, and some of them are more standoffish and private. And so that led me to the idea that not every one of my kids wants to be hugged, even by family members or close friends, even though they might feel love or connected to that person. It makes them uncomfortable. So we initiated the hug or high five, like when family members come over or friends or neighbors and they're leaving.

Kim Elerick: 4:29

When I was growing up it was kind of like, okay, hug grandma, or hug the neighbor or whatever, and you just did it because that's what your parents said to do and I was like that I don't know that that makes sense, Like I don't want my kid to feel like they have to do something physical with this other person if they're uncomfortable, because that sets a precedent.

Kim Elerick: 4:49

So we would say hug or high five, which was awkward at first with some of our family members, but, as we explained, they understood and I will tell you, a lot of times our kids took us up on the high five. They were like I don't want to hug this person, not that I don't like them, I just don't want to. And giving them that freedom to choose was really, I feel like at a very young age, a lesson in consent. Not everybody gets to touch your body, even in a benign way, just because that's what we do culturally. So that was a super practical thing we did at a young age for our kids. And, like you mentioned before, Mandy, I didn't do this at first, obviously, as I mentioned, but as my kids got a little bit older, in elementary school, I would say, hey, are you okay with me posting this picture to Facebook or to social media. And I was shocked at how often they were like please, mommy.

Mandy Majors: 5:40

No, Because I was like, but it's so cute, even if it's like a bragging post. That's what I've noticed in my own home, like she got straight A. She's amazing, she's the most wonderful kid. Here's a picture. And they're like absolutely not, no way, no way. Yes, it's so funny.

Kim Elerick: 5:57

What I'm telling the world, how awesome you are, yes, or just like something little, even like oh, we went to the pumpkin patch and here's a cute picture of our family, and my kids most of the time said can that just be for us? And that really. That stuck with me. Before social media, most of the things in a family are for us to celebrate with us, memories for moments of us, and my kids really like organically stuck with that. They were like this is really about our family. We don't need to share it with everyone. And so I will say, about 90% of the time my kids were like please don't post that. And as they've gotten older, it's like 99.9% of the time they're like please don't post that, like I don't really want that to be out there. And so that again is another layer of consent that I'm learning to respect with my kids.

Mandy Majors: 6:50

Yeah, and these are awesome things. I love the hugger high five. I think sometimes people do fist bumps now Like that's the cooler option.

Kim Elerick: 6:58

That is cooler.

Mandy Majors: 6:59

Yeah, but the other thing is look for everyday moments where you have an opportunity to teach consent, and one of the things that I flash back to and when I did this years ago, I didn't really think about it as teaching consent, but it's what I was doing. So when my kids were little, they ran around naked. They take baths together. You know, when they're little, little, that's what they do. Absolutely. It's like throw everybody in the shower and get out in bedtime. You know and I'm talking about it how to get it done. It's crazy, right, it's crazy.

Mandy Majors: 7:33

So I do remember, though, early on, I think my son was real young one or two he was young but my daughter came to me and she said I need Bubba to stop being naked around me. Like it's weird. And in the moment, you know it was so cute and it was harmless, right. But that was a moment where my kids were growing up saying I'm noticing differences, respect my boundaries here. And I remember telling my husband you know we have to have a talk with Bubby. I know he's young, but he's gotta understand Like he's gotta have at least underwear on running through the house now, like there's no more just streaking through the house Like he was as a young, as a young little boy, right, and so.

Mandy Majors: 8:23

But that was a way of saying I hear you and I respect you, even though I wasn't even using that terminology with my little kids. I was just saying thank you so much for telling me. I will definitely talk to Bubba, like that's what I always want you to do if somebody's crossing a boundary. I'm so proud of you for standing up for yourself and telling me that this makes you uncomfortable, right? And so these are the kind of conversations that we wanna look for. I always I get asked a lot like when is the time of young parents, when is the time when my kids can't see each other naked anymore? And I always say, well, I mean, it depends, it depends on the kid. Like, if they are vocal about it early on, then stop. Like don't ever, you know, make that a real situation.

Kim Elerick: 9:10

Yeah, that is so good because I think a lot of times as parents we brush off or dismiss those types comments or requests because we're like they're little, they don't know, it's not a big deal. But I see that as setting the stage for when they're older. We're saying I see you, I hear you, I respect what you're saying and I'm honoring it. And so when they're older they are already used to that. They're like mom will hear me when I request this or ask this, or when it's time for them to date or they're in a situation where they feel uncomfortable, they feel empowered to request or say what is needed or necessary, which I think is so important. That's what this is all about. Training our kids that consent begins at a young age and their voice matters, I think, is truly important. A good example of this is I have two boys and a girl. With boys comes wrestling, a lot of like punching, a lot of like crazy activity, and they just kind of roped their sister into that too, even though she's the youngest of the three. And something I noticed early on was and I'm the culprit here Like when my kids, when we'd be all playing around and I'd be tickling them or whatever, and they'd be laughing and cracking up and they'd be like mom, stop, stop. And then I tickle a little bit more because it was funny and it seemed like that's what we were doing. I was a part of the problem because I wasn't thinking of it in terms of this is setting the stage for them at a later time in life to say no or stop when it's serious, and them not being respected in that moment because I would keep going. And so years ago, when they were little, I had that moment and I realized that I needed to set the precedent for them that stop or no means right now, not after three times of asking, not when the person stops laughing, not when I feel it's appropriate, but as soon as they say no or stop. And so that's a rule in our home Stop means stop right now or no means stop right now.

Kim Elerick: 11:22

And so with tickling, with games, with anything in our household, if one of our kids says stop, it's now. And that has really played out now that they're older, because that still happens. You know the wrestling and the tickling. All this still happens when they get older. It's like a continual thing that we say and they know like it's it's done, and Not only is that for their safety, but when hormones kick in and you know our kids start dating, and there's those you know hormonal moments where they are engaged in something, I want them to respect the other person who might say you know what, I'm uncomfortable with this or please stop. They need to know we're not going any further. I respect you and I will stop now. So that's something again, you can start at a very young age. That will do service to them when they're older. It will help them to respect others and themselves.

Mandy Majors: 12:14

Well and that's an everyday moment that you applied a core, next-top principle, which is look at the mirror Right. You weren't afraid, kim, in that story, to be humbled, to be like oh my gosh, I'm the problem here. It's me like I Need to correct this. And then it's a conversation kids, we've been doing this all wrong. It's my fault, you know we don't want to.

Mandy Majors: 12:37

I think, first of all, I mean, the most important thing here is you're teaching your kids, when they say no, to respect it. You know that one they can say no, and then you're teaching your other kids that they have to respect that. I think that is so good. But I think a ripple effect of that too is we're not over using the word stop, because that's another thing. I think sometimes in our culture we get in this thing where we say stop, like. You know the little phrases of like oh, if a boy is picking on you, then he must like you. It's almost like it. The more they they, more they jab at you and cross your boundaries, the more they must be it in, in love with you or really like you or whatever.

Mandy Majors: 13:17

That is backwards. That is wrong of what we need to be teaching, and that's a whole consent issue too, on how we look at this. You know, love beauty is, is like being respected and being able to say this is not okay for me, like I'm not comfortable with this, and that other person like Honestly, like admiring you because you put up that boundary, you know, like that is what is special here and I think important, but but we get it backwards. We get it backwards, we think, oh, and just like you were in the tickle game, you know they say stop, I'm gonna go more because you know it just makes it more competitive.

Mandy Majors: 13:53

Yeah, it's funny. And these little everyday moments are confusing our kids and that's what we need to recognize. We we need to pray for God to give us wisdom and light bulb moments, just like he did, you, kim, and then us not being willing to look in the mirror and be like okay, I totally got that wrong. That's not really what I want to be teaching here. And then be intentional with the conversations. I mean, that's the next talk way. That's the whole premise of our organization.

Kim Elerick: 14:20

And reminders. Like you said, it's an everyday thing. Recently I'm not just gonna tell myself and tell on myself I did what's called a New York stop. I don't know if you know what that means, but it's where you kind of slow down at a stop sign and then speed up and go through it like you don't come.

Mandy Majors: 14:36

Okay, we. We call that a rolling stop. You call it a New York stop, we.

Kim Elerick: 14:41

I don't even know where that comes from New York stop.

Mandy Majors: 14:44

My kid, my kids call it a rolling stop and they never called me on it until they were in driver's head. And now I get called out all the time.

Kim Elerick: 14:51

Yes, girl, I'm. I'm not looking forward to those days because my kids are very like legalistic and I will be like mom. No, but I did that. I did a rolling New York stop in our neighborhood. I and I got pulled over by a police officer and when he came to the window he's like ma'am, do you know why I'm pulling you over? And I said I really don't, because I wasn't speeding, I did all the right things. And he's like stop means stop and it was great.

Kim Elerick: 15:17

It was a great like in-the-moment opportunity as we left and he gave me a warning and a reminder about safety, to circle back with my kids now that they're older and be like hey, isn't that funny that even in something like that, it's a reminder that it's not a rolling stop, it's not like I'm going to tickle a little bit more, I'm going to do whatever I'm doing a little bit more Stop right now, because that's the safe and right thing to do. And so we had this great conversation and reminders about them growing up and how that has been something we haven't still in our family. So use even those moments where you're embarrassed or you mess up to circle back to really foundational conversations with your kid.

Mandy Majors: 15:56

I love that so much. I love it and I guess I'm thankful. The officer gave you a warning but you got a ticket no. Kim, you could have gotten a ticket because you did not stop.

Kim Elerick: 16:07

Oh, that was when my husband was like girl and I was like I know, I know, and so, yeah, I'm glad I didn't get a ticket.

Mandy Majors: 16:13

But I stop now Like hard stuff, but see, now you've learned the lesson because you've been called out on it and that's what we need to do with our kids. You don't have to be mean in calling them out, but during the next tickle fest or wrestling match or whatever it's just a moment, ticket, yeah, or a ticket you can just stop and say, ok, we've been doing this all wrong. We need to set some clear boundaries here. This is important kind of thing. One of the things that I really want to talk about on this show, kim. I think these are all great practical things, everyday stuff that we can all use in our homes.

Mandy Majors: 16:46

One of the things that I want to talk about with consent is this there's a lot of people out there teaching consent. I mean, you can Google it, you know there's like 10 things and this is that in curriculum, in school or whatever. I think the difference that I want to how I want next talk to tackle consent is like a package, and what I mean by that is I feel like you know kids are vulnerable and you can get kids to do things that you want them to do. They are very vulnerable. They're impressionable. You know you can. We see this a lot with grooming. We've got a grooming show you can check out. But we see it a lot like the grooming stages it's.

Mandy Majors: 17:28

You know, I said the effort in front of you, please don't tell your parents, oh my gosh, they would kill me. You know, if this is an adult speaking to your kid, and then it's almost like kid keeps that secret from parents and then kid is manipulated into becoming like a willing participant somehow of the grooming process. And that's what groomers want our kids to think. Like you're well, you said, yes, you can send it. And like, like I said, please don't tell your parents, and you didn't. So that was kind of consenting that we kept the secret. So then it moves into you know drinking alcohol together and, like you know, you can send it. I told you that if you drink this alcohol and tell your parents, like I will get fired and you can send it to that. So like, thank you, you know, like you were a part of it. That's how groomers manipulate our kids. So and I say this because consent is great, but kids can be manipulated or groomed to consent, yes, and it's bad.

Mandy Majors: 18:26

And so with Next Talk, yeah, a lot of people is teaching consent, but I think Next Talk, families really need to be focused on teaching the package, and that is, yes, consent, all these things we were talking about today but also grooming, manipulation and culture, just what's right or wrong. It's not okay for any adult to ever ask you to keep a secret from your parents. It's just not online, in person, whatever Our red flag alert should go off in your brain. And so I think this is really important, because what I'm afraid is going to happen and we see it, we see this in predator stories that we work at Next Talk is that kids think they're consenting, like, slowly and surely, the relationship has been built and it felt right.

Mandy Majors: 19:13

It felt like it's okay to let this person see my private part because, like, I trusted them with this, this and this and that was okay and that is a tactic, and so we have to teach all of this. If we're talking about like, consent is not just a standalone conversation, it's this package with all the other conversations to keep our kids safe.

Kim Elerick: 19:34

You are so right. It is a gradual conversation that starts when they're young, that teaches them the foundation of protecting themselves and then understanding it and knowing what consent is and what's right and what's wrong as they get older. So it's this huge package, like you're saying, that we have to teach our kids and show them that gradual change. And so you know, one of the things that I had to wrestle with is have I in some way groomed my kids to consent to things, which sounds crazy? Because no one.

Kim Elerick: 20:10

Well, I shouldn't say no one, but most of us, as parents, don't think like I'm going to groom my kid. No, that's not something on our radar. But grooming just means, like setting them up for something. And so when I think about that, as they're young, am I setting them up to be okay, with pictures being taken of them or them being touched in a certain way, or for something to continue after they've said no? So as parents, we get the opportunity to prepare them to not be groomed at a later life by setting up these foundations when they're young. And so I think it is a big conversation and it's not easy and it's thinking about things in a different way than I think we're used to. But man, is it powerful? It's really powerful.

Mandy Majors: 20:55

Well, and this is one of the key things, you know, we always say no phones in bedrooms or bathrooms, you know, until they're older, and I mean like 17 and a half, getting ready to leave. And then you do need to kind of catch them doing something amazing and implement that because you want them to have know what it's like to have a phone in a bedroom before they leave your house. Right, but most kids like, like I've got a 16 year, no phones in bedrooms, right, like no. But I think this is one of the key reasons behind that is because we are kind of blurring the lines between consent. I mean, in a bathroom, what do you do? You're undressing, you're going to the bathroom, you're going to all personal, private things.

Mandy Majors: 21:37

So when we set up a boundary, a guideline of we don't need our phone in the bathroom, we're teaching our kids like not to gradually blur the lines of consent about their body parts and their phone. Right, that's what we're trying to do. So we're setting up the boundary and then we're having the conversations Don't just set up the boundary and never talk about the why. Then your kids are just going to think you're crazy legalistic, right, and you'll have all these crazy rules. So it's the guideline plus the why, and that's where we get into all these very deep conversations about consent and boundaries and why it's important. Just like you're using everyday opportunity, kim, I got stopped at a stop sign. Let's talk about consent. Stop means stop.

Kim Elerick: 22:23

Just like in pickling.

Mandy Majors: 22:24

You're bringing it all together for them, so they see the picture.

Kim Elerick: 22:28

And remember too, you're not just doing this to protect them, but so they honor and respect others, because hormones all the things that come into play is our kids get older, they're going to struggle with consent, not just for themselves, but for others, and we want them to know and feel and remember why they understand consent and how they can honor that for someone else. That makes them a responsible, respectable citizen, and so this is a two-way street and so it's a super important conversation, like you said, that's ongoing and that we're explaining it to them in different layers and levels and reasoning, because it will affect their life in many different ways.

Mandy Majors: 23:14

Absolutely so. We hope and pray. We prayed for before this show. We hope and pray every show helps you create more conversation in your home to keep your kids safe. That's our goal here at nextTalk, and so we hope this did and use everyday moments and teach your kids consent. This podcast is ad-free because of all the people who donate to our nonprofit.

Kim Elerick: 23:38

Make a donation today at nextTalk. org.

Mandy Majors: 23:42

This podcast is not intended to replace the advice of a trained healthcare or legal professional, or to diagnose, treat or otherwise render expert advice regarding any type of medical, psychological or legal problem. Others are advised to consult a qualified expert for treatment.