Sexual Abuse: Boys are victims too

Every parent needs to listen to this show. Mandy talks with a mom who bravely shares the story of how she learned that her son had been sexually abused. What were the warning signs? How can we best support our kids through a trauma like this? 

Transcript

Mandy Majors: 0:02

Welcome to the next Talk podcast. We are passionate about keeping kids safe in an overexposed world. It's Mandy and Kim, and we're navigating tech, culture and faith with our kids. Welcome to the show today.

Mandy Majors: 0:15

This is a very serious topic that we have been praying over and really researching for years at next Talk, and it's something that we've been seeing happen a lot and way more frequently than we even imagined, and so we knew we had to tackle it, and we have been praying, and God sent us a family that we want you to hear their story and they're willing to share it, and so I do want to say we are changing the mom's name and we're not going to use the son's name, because this is the son's story and his to share when he's ready, but we feel like this is so important that we need to hear from mom how it was handled and what she did and the steps she took when she found herself in this place, and so that's what we're going to tackle here today.

Mandy Majors: 1:08

I do want to say, though, that mom has asked son if she could be a guest, even anonymously, and he said yes, so I want to preface it with that. I want to welcome Jenny to the show. Jenny, can you tell us just a little bit about you and your family?

Jenny: 1:27

Hello, I'm Jenny. I am your typical mom of three children. I have an eight-year-old little girl, a 15-year-old and a 20-year-old in college, and I'm a small business owner. So pretty much like your average mom.

Mandy Majors: 1:44

And you're married.

Jenny: 1:45

Yeah, oh yeah, I forgot to mention my husband. Yes, I am married. Wonderful man, yes, yes, I've been married.

Mandy Majors: 1:52

22 years and you have family that you're close with around.

Jenny: 1:58

Yes, definitely yes. We live in a small town and have family, a lot of family, a lot of extended family and then some that lives across Texas.

Mandy Majors: 2:08

So yeah, okay, so we're having you on the show today to share your story about one of your kids so which of the ages? And I want you to tell me when you first started noticing changes in him and kind of describe that to us and kind of how this all started.

Jenny: 2:28

So the story is about my 15 year old son. He's now 15. And I guess this all started actually quite a long time ago. Maybe when he was quite a long time ago, maybe when he was eight or nine, I started noticing a few changes which to me seemed like something with his health. I noticed he had gut issues. I noticed he had issues with his skin and I immediately my brain went to, oh, something's wrong. I do a lot of health and wellness type of stuff, that's my business. So I'm like, oh, something's wrong. I do a lot of health and wellness type of stuff, that's my business. So I'm like, oh, we got to restore his gut. We need to do a comprehensive stool sample, we need to do food sensitivity testing, which is, you know, part of that was right.

Jenny: 3:16

But I look back now and see that, intuitively, I knew something was wrong. I just, in my naive state, I knew something was wrong. I just, um, in my naive state, was it even open to anything other than it had to be his health Right? So so, um, fast forward. We, we were working on that, always put him on all these specialized diets and everything else, and um, then, um, he got a little bit older and we started noticing him taking a lot of baths and, um, uh, I'm, I'm one of those moms that's kind of tough and I'm like, what are you doing? You know, come on, let's go. We got stuff to do. Um, get out of the bathtub, uh, and so I blew it off again, um, and literally never even thought that it could be anything related to this subject. So, um, yeah, I think I missed the signs in the beginning, um, for probably maybe starting from when he was eight till he was 11 or 12.

Mandy Majors: 4:17

So one night, though it was, you were getting ready to eat. I remind me how this happened, though it was very unlike him, like not wanting to come to dinner or something, and there was a moment.

Jenny: 4:30

Yes, yes, it was during the summer. We were having lunch. It was midday, he had been in the bath for a really long time. I was making lunch. I told my husband, go get him and tell him to come eat. So he did and he came back and said he's laying on his top bunk and he, he won't even talk to me and super out of character for him. So I, I went into his room and and you know, said come on, get down, let's go, it's time to eat. And he didn't answer. So, uh, I kind of stepped in a bit and said, hey, let's go, get down, because that's my type of you know, tough parenting, let's go. And he, he didn't answer.

Jenny: 5:10

And so I crawled up on the bed and looked over and I could tell his little face was all scrunched up and he was, he was in some serious distress and I knew immediately something is wrong. So I sat on the edge of the bed saying, you know, hey, what's going on. And you know, without turning this into the 45 minutes that it took to get this out of him, I, I ended up laying next to him in the bed and saying what's going on, what's going on. And he, he kind of went into what I now know to be, I guess, a bit of a panic attack in his little young man body, you know, at 11. And he was just hyperventilating and I was like what is going on? Nothing like this has ever happened. And so I said you're going to tell me what's going on, you know, no matter what. And literally it was you know 45 minutes of me like, no, you're going to tell me what is it, what is it? And?

Jenny: 6:07

And so eventually I said did something happen? And he just said, you know, head shake, yes. And um, I said, what Nothing. He just, I mean, I, I think, you know, I look back now, and, and other moms too have to know, you know, how does a, how does an 11 year old boy articulate anything much less a subject so terrible, you know? And um, he couldn't, so he was just totally frozen and, um, so I, I just had to, you have to press in more. What is it? What is it? Nope, we're not leaving it. So, what happened? So finally he'd say, yes, something happened.

Jenny: 6:47

And then I just narrowed it down when was it? Was it here? And then, head shake, yes, okay, was it? Was it someone here that you're with all the time, because another part of the story that I haven't shared is that we do live within close proximity to our family, our extended family cousins, aunts, uncles, and so of course I, you know, hadn't really gone there in my mind yet, but I figured something happened with the cousins, you know boy stuff, because they're always hanging around together, always doing all the things together like families, do you? Uh, I, I continued to ask and and eventually he said I said, was it with one of your cousins?

Jenny: 7:28

Yes, and I said, what was it? Nothing, nothing, and I mean literally 10 minutes of what was it. And finally his, he, he said I still remember he, he wouldn't even say the whole word, he just started with puh, puh, puh, puh, puh, puh, puh, and I'm like porn. And he said, yes, you know, he was so ashamed even then to admit that, and I was relieved. I mean, I'll admit it.

Jenny: 7:57

I was so relieved because in my mind I was like, surely this isn't more than that, you know. I said, okay, it's okay, it's okay. You know, this was a great opportunity for me. This is how I saw it. Okay, deep breath, great opportunity for me to talk to him about this and and let's talk about porn. So I shared with him like, listen, this is bad. You know, this is all of these things that you're seeing. Whatever you were shown is horrible, not pleasing to the Lord, not, okay, never, right. But I'm here to tell you that this could happen again and so now we can be prepared. You know, and um, and we had a discussion about it was mostly me talking, but he was super relieved that he got that off of his chest. It was mostly me talking, but he was super relieved that he got that off of his chest. So I thought and so, um, yeah, had a good discussion and kind of regrouped and then went on.

Mandy Majors: 8:53

So tell us what led up to it, because at this point you're thinking, okay, we have cousins and it's an older cousin, right, because that's typically what I see. I'm just going to be honest with you. Typically what I see with with abuse, abuse and this has been shocking to me as I've gotten into this Next Talk work how often I see this? But typically the pattern is an older boy with a younger boy and porn is introduced first, before the abuse, because it's almost like a grooming step. And I think a lot of me pre-next talk, without being in this work, I would have gone right where you went. Oh, it's just porn.

Mandy Majors: 9:33

Okay, we can handle that kind of thing, thinking that it hadn't spiraled past that yet, and I really want to highlight here like, don't dismiss the porn, because I think I would have too. But now that I've gotten educated about it, like, I know that almost all these abuse cases involve porn on some level, and so this is a this is a big moment, right? So so, jenny, tell us. So you're, you're relieved, you're talking about porn, you're arming him with what to do next and you're going about your life. So how long after that did this conversation shift again to another?

Jenny: 10:13

revelation that we just rocked along, or thought we were rocking along, until we got into seventh grade and my son started texting or talking with a girl, like seventh graders do, that he'd never met, she was from another town, they were texting or whatever. So I was kind of having a conversation like hey, how's it going with the girl and what's going on, and anyways. And then a couple months went by. I mean, they never even saw each other, didn't want us to and and and. To make a long story short, he ended up telling me that her brother was actually abusing her sexually and, um, that she was having panic attacks, and, and my poor son was listening to her and trying to help her, and, and he's, he's a sensitive guy, good listener, you know. And what I've learned is those are targets, guy, good listener, you know. And what I've learned is those are targets, those are targets.

Jenny: 11:28

And and these predators mistake these sensitive, nice, sweet kids. Um, they mistake that for weakness. And what I know now is, um, they got that really wrong with my son because, uh, his, his weakness is sweet, sensitive self was mistaken, um, and uh, he's actually a lot stronger than what his predator thought before. But so that opened up a conversation about abuse and he and I talked a lot about that and again, another good conversation. To have Felt horrible for the family. But I actually called another counselor to talk to her about, hey, how do we handle this, because we know about this girl that's struggling and all the things. So she was a conversation in our family, especially between my son and myself.

Mandy Majors: 12:14

So you work through reporting that and educating your kid on this, and you're talking through all that situation, and so lead me up to the moment where your son connected what he just helped his friend with is what happened to him. Like, connect me to that that moment and and and I want you to I mean I can't even imagine that moment and so, first of all, I just want to say thank you for reliving it for us, because this cannot be easy, but I know your heart and you're doing it, because we're trying to bring darkness into light today and and I have seen this happen over and over to families and they don't have anybody to talk to, and so I am so grateful for you and your son's willingness and your courage to do this. So I want to say that, first of all, before you tell us about that moment but when was the moment that he connected it? And then you connected it.

Jenny: 13:08

So, um, it was um during a summer, and, um, we were driving home and I, I, I for some reason brought up to him, this girl, that he had been texting.

Jenny: 13:23

It had been months since we talked about her. But I said, hey, I just want to, you know, ask you again, like, was it actual sexual abuse? And it wasn't that I didn't believe her, it's just, I had been talking to this counselor friend of mine, and I was trying to figure out, like, hey, if we move forward with helping her, I need to know for sure. You know what happened. And you know. And he said, yes, mom, yes, and I said okay, like her brother, actually, I just was really wanting to be sure, because I didn't want to blow up these people's lives, you know. And anyways, he said, yes, mom, it was bad. I said okay, okay, and immediately after we talked about that, he turned away from me and just kind of curled up in his seat and started looking out the window and he just went totally silent and shut down, and so I kept driving for a while and I was like, okay, there was a shift here. What is going on? I was thinking to myself. So I said, hey, what's going on you, okay? And he's like, yeah, I, I said I said, hey, um, what's going on you, okay? And he's like, yeah, I'm fine, I'm just tired. And I said, okay, but you've been tired a lot lately and he had, you know, and I started thinking, man, he's he's tired all the time. And I said, oh so, are you just tired because of your workout, are you? Are you just tired all the time? He's like mom, I'm just tired all the time. He's like mom, I'm just tired all the time. And, um, I, in that moment, I mean, and like I, like I said the only way I could describe it is it. It was kind of like scales were lifted from my eyes. I just had this like realization of like okay, there's something really big going on here. And I got to, I got to intervene.

Jenny: 15:02

So I asked my daughter to please get out of the car once we got home and I drove somewhere where I knew no one was going to bother us and I I said, listen, did what happened to this girl happen to you? Did more happen to you than what, originally, you told me with the porn? And um, actually, first I just asked him that did more happen to you than what you told me before, which is the porn. And he, he wouldn't even look at me, he just shook his head and at this point he is crying and heaving hysterically might not be the right word, but I'd never seen him in this state. And, uh, I said listen. All I could think to say was did what happened to this girl happen to you? Did what happened? I repeated that y'all, I mean at least 50 times.

Jenny: 16:02

We sat there and he was, his whole body was shaking and shuddering and he was crying and um, at this point he's in seventh grade, so this is hugely uncharacteristic for a kid this age. So I ended up getting over in the seat with him and this is what it's hard for me to get out, um, and I held him like a baby, and so I continued to ask him this same question, cause it's all I could think, did what happened to her happen to you? And he, I mean, it took, it was 20 minutes of that and finally he just gathered up all of this strength that's the only way I could describe it. He just took this deep breath and it was all he had, if he. I asked him the question and he just hollered yes, and so that was when our whole world changed. From then on.

Mandy Majors: 16:56

I think I just want to take a moment here because I think, as moms, when we see our kids struggling like that and you obviously saw all these shifts in his body language and how he was coping with this, like you knew I think sometimes in that moment Satan wants us to retreat from that because we know it's going to be hard. Whatever's getting ready to be said next, we know whatever is going to happen next is going to be hard and we don't want to deal with it. And this is a moment where we can literally be light to overcome darkness, or we can live in denial for the rest of our life. That will affect everyone around us. And then Satan has a hold on all of this stuff that's happening in secret. And I just want to say I think for every parent listening here, like I hope and pray that I could have had your courage and I don't know if I would have, and that kind of scares me a bit. It scares me a bit because I would want to be you, jenny. I would want to make sure that my kid was okay and no matter what you tell me right now, because you had no idea where this was going to go or how it was going to affect your family.

Mandy Majors: 18:12

I and that's what we all need to be focused on here when our kids have experienced trauma, what were your next steps? So you're in this moment and I can only imagine the emotion and the thoughts running through your head and everything. Your husband has no idea, I mean, I guess. I mean I guess he knew about the pornography and you had told him about that and you guys had watched these changes. But again, never in his wildest imagination would his mind go here. Probably so. So was that you know once, once your kid is home and taken care of and like, what's your next step? Tell me what you did here.

Jenny: 19:03

Well, I actually texted my husband while I was holding my son and said pack our bags. Something big has happened. We're going, we're leaving. It was summer, thank the Lord. And when I got home I told him and thank God for this man, because you know, it's his side of the family and, um, it would have been very easy for him to question everything, but he did not. He, um, believed our son, acknowledged it, which is huge, and, um, and and stepped into the ring with me. So that was huge, huge and way bigger for my son than for me. Like my son, our son needed to see dad is on your side, dad believes you. We're fighting this with you. And that's what we did. We literally stepped into the ring, we went, took a couple days with him at the beach. It was beautiful, wonderful.

Jenny: 20:05

And then we approached the family face to face and, uh, confronted them and that was one of the hardest things I've ever done and spoke truth. Um, although I think, uh, I think a lot of us as moms you know, we're peacekeepers man, we want the family to be happy and everything to be tranquil and it be the serene environment within our families and our extended families, but in this case, that was off the table. I was willing to risk anything to protect my son. If that meant confronting the family and and never seeing them again, that's okay, because my son needed to be seen, heard, believed in this abuse, needed to be acknowledged, and and they needed to know the truth of the story as well. And so we confronted it head on and that was not fun Not even a little bit but it was good.

Jenny: 21:06

Our son knew hey, we're going over there and we're going to talk to them, and he wanted us to, which was so awesome. He's the bravest young man and everything we did. We were up front with him and he knew, which was great, and so he was on the journey with us and anyway. So then after that, as the Lord would have it, I already had a perfect counselor in place and made an appointment with her, and I don't think I've ever seen the Lord orchestrate a relationship or a divine appointment with a person such as this woman, as what I've seen in this situation I'm not kidding, it's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen that the Lord moves and was already orchestrating this prior to any of this even happening, cause she was already a part of our lives, and so thank God for her, and so so we started immediately in counseling.

Mandy Majors: 22:11

I love that. You immediately well, first you retreated to make sure he was okay, like, just just take a moment. Here we're not just going to gloss over what you just told us. Right, we are going to take a moment and regroup as a family and all get together on how we're going to battle this together. I feel like that's so beautiful in and of itself that your husband didn't question. That tells me a lot about y'all's faith and your marriage. Right there. Hands off, the boy is number one. Right now, we're going to protect this kid.

Mandy Majors: 22:47

I love that you went to the family, because I guess immediately you had to say why we're not going to be around you. The boundaries in place, right, that had to be communicated immediately, and that's a biblical thing too, right, something happens, you go directly to that person. This is the, this is the problem. We are dealing with this right now. They are not going to be together. My son is not going to be exposed to this trauma. This is off the table. And then you got into counseling.

Mandy Majors: 23:15

Now my mind as an organization goes to the reporting process and the legalities, and I don't want to get into all the details of that process and the legalities and I don't want to get into you know to all the details of that, but you know, as I think, a lot of times when our kids confide in us, we don't know how to report these things Like, do we just call the 911 number? Do we do this Like what, what, what is entailed with this? I think a lot of people don't know where to start. So walk us through like what you've learned in this process about helping report, because I think we find ourselves in these situations and we just don't know what to do, but we know that it has to be reported and taken care of, kind of thing.

Jenny: 23:56

I will say I had no tools and was ill-equipped for a situation like this. So in that case and in life, when we don't have the tools, we have to rely on the professionals who do. And that's that, was it. A hundred percent, I knew I have to go to someone who is a professional and can handle this and who is a trauma informed therapist that is the key word. And know that now I didn't before. Now I know, and so literally just putting the ball in this Christian therapist court was my only option, because I didn't have the tools and I trusted her with I, entrusted my child's mental health with her and I'm telling you like I'll be forever grateful.

Mandy Majors: 24:45

So then, she and I think this is the teachable moment here Even if you don't know how to report, get to a trauma informed therapist and they will help you determine the next steps on all that reporting and dealing with the trauma, because of everything that needs to happen from here on out to make sure everybody gets held accountable, and that kind of stuff. So that is a talking point that we want you guys to hear, because your, your kid, is going to need a trauma informed therapist first of all, and it helps you on the legal side, too, to figure all of that out and how it needs to proceed. Yes, okay. So so you start in therapy. So you start in therapy.

Mandy Majors: 25:26

Tell us some things you've learned, tell us what you would want, because there are also a lot of parents out there. They're scared of therapy, they're scared of the legal process, they're scared to reach out for help. It's almost like, let us deal with this in our family and we'll handle it and put the boundaries in place and whatever. Like what would you say to that? Because, because we got to learn from what you did in this, I feel like you have done all the right things in making sure your kid is getting the help that that he needs to get.

Jenny: 26:00

Well, I have to preface it with what I'm going to say with I. I still really struggle with mom guilt, right, like, of course, um, that's going to be something that's going to be ongoing and that's between me and the Lord, and and like, like we talked about, it's a process and I'll work through that. Um, but the reason I'm doing this is because I want to save some other child who is keeping this and holding this secret inside, or has even shared something, or is sending up smoke signals to their parents, and their parents, like me, were naive. I mean, I know I was naive, or naive or assumed it couldn't be that. I want all parents to know that those signals and all of that, your options need to be completely open. And I say now, my eyes are wide open, and so I'm challenging all of these parents to see their children with eyes wide open. No, you don't want to go there. No, you don't want to look at the ugly stuff. No, it's horrible.

Jenny: 27:15

I didn't want to walk this, but it is our job, it is my job as a parent, it is my one duty on this earth, and this is what I feel now and I'm trying to walk it out to protect our children at all costs. I don't care if it blows up your family, I don't care. Our job is to believe, acknowledge, protect our children no matter what, and every mother out there is capable of it. And and and believe me, I have not done everything right. I still daily struggle with how to handle this. The only thing that I am is maybe a week or two or a month ahead of all the other moms out there and all I'm doing is just reaching my hand back and saying come on, we can do this. It's going to be hard, it's going to be really hard. But on the flip side of it, if your child is not believed and heard and seen and action is not taken, then what I know now.

Jenny: 28:16

I really wish I didn't, but I know the statistics. I know now that these children are, their suicide rate triples. They're way more likely to abuse alcohol, drugs and find anything they can to numb the pain that they're carrying around with them because they could not talk about it. And so I'm so thankful, and I have to say my son and I've told him this, I tell him you're my hero, because you are strong enough to say this out loud, and that's huge, huge, and just that alone means that we can start the healing process now, versus 30 years down the road. The healing process now versus 30 years down the road.

Jenny: 29:04

And I know that it's really really, really hard for young males to acknowledge when they've experienced something like this because of the shame. But it doesn't have to be a taboo, uncomfortable thing to talk about. It just doesn't. It's okay to talk about these things in our families, in our community, in our churches. That is how we start the healing process, and so I'm in the middle of it. But I'm just challenging other moms to start to look for those red flags in their children and in their actions and reactions and even in their daily lives.

Mandy Majors: 29:48

And I think that's a word for all of us. You know not to miss the red flags, to press into it. You know, when you were sharing, you said I saw a shift in him, like to be that intentional with watching our children and how they're processing life. And also, too, if you've got a kid acting out like you said I thought you said it so beautifully, because some kids are just numbing themselves and so you may see a kid who's sneaking out drinking, you're finding vapes and you're just like what in the world? This is like a night and day situation. I mean, you got to dig into that Like why are they trying to numb themselves? Has something happened that like it's not just a bandaid of getting them to quit vaping? It's, it's look under the hood right To be like why are you wanting to use drugs or alcohol? Because I think that's sometimes where we don't want to know the answer.

Mandy Majors: 30:44

I think Satan, like you said, the scales were lifted from my eyes and I think that's the courage that we all admire in you, that you were like I've got to press in here. I've got to press in. There is something wrong, and to me that's inspirational and it's a word. It's a word for me as a mom that's inspirational and it's a word. It's a word for me as a mom you mentioned. We cannot make this taboo in our homes, in our families, in our churches. I want to talk about the church for a minute, because I love the local church, I love my Jesus, but I do think there's some toxic stuff that happens in some Christian cultures, some churches not all, not all, absolutely not all but I feel like we need to talk about that a minute. One of the things you had mentioned to me was that tell our listeners about this idea of forgiveness.

Jenny: 31:43

Tell our listeners about this idea of forgiveness. Well, I think you and I had talked about what it's like being raised in the church and loving the Lord and believing all of the scriptures, and I was raised in a great Christian home and then, somehow, how does that translate into how to handle this situation? And I think, of course, we were taught to forgive and cover people with mercy, but in this situation I think this is what kind of twisted up my head the most. I always prided myself in being able to not make a big deal out of things, talk about the hard stuff with other girls within the family and get over it and forgive them. Because I literally remember telling myself there's nothing that I can't forgive and get over. It's like not even a big deal. And this this is this has humbled me, because what I realized was I can forgive and that can be on our timeline, right, and that's okay. It's a process. I can forgive and that can be on our timeline, right, and that's okay. It's a process. But setting up long-term boundaries and not allowing these people back into our lives is okay, as simple as that sounds.

Jenny: 33:24

I have spent hours pondering that, because that's not who I was raised to be and I can't tell you the confusion in my mind around that subject alone about how to handle that. Do you go back and does this forgiveness, look like you know meshing with this family again, or does it look like this? But I know, and this is what I decided no, the Lord gave me this innate feeling as a mother and I know that it is not okay that my son is ever around this person again, ever as long as he's under my roof, and that is okay and like. That is a very simple statement. But I have repeated it to myself so many times no, it doesn't matter what they think of you, it doesn't matter what your own extended family thinks, it doesn't matter if, if, if they never speak to you again, that is okay, you are doing what's right.

Jenny: 34:30

And my husband and I our saying and we have looked at each other I can't tell you how many times and said we have done nothing wrong that statement over and over, because we get in these conversations and we let our minds go to, oh my gosh, it's going to blow up the family. What about if this person gets hurt? What if this person finds out? And then we're like wait what? Whoa? We have done nothing wrong. Our only job here is to protect our children and our son in this situation, and so, as a Christian woman I mean I'm sure some other women listening can identify we were raised a certain way and in a situation like this it has been confusing, you know.

Mandy Majors: 35:18

I am so glad that you are sharing that, because this is where and I feel like the Lord and the personal relationship with you have you have with Jesus Christ, led you to the right conclusion. But we get into this Christianese culture that can so be toxic sometimes, that it's like forgive, forgive, forgive. No, we are going to stop right now. We are going to lament, we are going to grieve. We are going to stop right now. We are going to lament, we are going to grieve. We are going to get this kid help. We are going to acknowledge what happened and we are going to create a boundary in place here. Stop, right.

Mandy Majors: 36:00

I mean forgiveness can happen that's up to your son, right, that's up to your son and it could take years, years, right. And forgiveness does not mean it equals okay ever. That does never mean forgiveness. Never is an okay that it happened, right. That is never what we want to take from this. But I just think that it's so powerful and you're so vulnerable, because I think a lot of Christian women especially would struggle right now in the space of this forgiveness, and I think it's a very powerful thing that the Holy Spirit is using through you, jenny, to talk about that and to speak a word to any pastor or church who is listening to your story, how important this is not to gloss over trauma that is happening to children. Amen, can you tell us how your boy is doing?

Jenny: 37:05

He is making progress, thank the Lord. So we're two years in and he has matured a lot and he is healing, and sometimes that looks awesome and sometimes, um, that's okay because we're taking more steps forward than back and, um, I'm so thankful for that. But he is, he's doing, he's doing well, he's doing well, but we don't have it all figured out, and this is this is a long process and I love so much that you said it's okay, we can, we can stop and lament, because sometimes we need to do that and that's just part of the process of healing.

Mandy Majors: 37:55

We want to get to the hope and joy. You know what I mean, because we know Jesus wins in the end. We do know, right, we do know, and there is hope and peace in that. But that doesn't take out the human emotions of what your kid has just walked through, like there's a lot of unpacking to do here and we can't just gloss over to hope and joy of eternal life and we got all that. I mean this is great, right, this is great, but, but there's, this is stop, stop. We have a kid here who needs to be protected and healed and this is going to be a process.

Mandy Majors: 38:34

I love that when we were talking through this, I didn't even ask you to ask your son if it was okay, and I said you know, we can be anonymous, we can. I just want to make sure he's protected. You're protected, whatever. And what I loved when you texted me back was I had a conversation. You said I got to ask him first, and then you, you texted me back and said he says it's a go Like he wants to help other people, like he knows that this is an issue. Go, like he wants to help other people, like he knows that this is an issue. I don't think the kid has any idea how God is using him in this moment. Like I don't think he gets it yet and I hope one day he looks back and he remembers that seventh grade little boy and he knows man, the courage to like, say it out loud and trust your mama with it and walk through this with you Like the kid is going to change the world. Like I really think this kid is going to change the world.

Jenny: 39:43

Yes, yes, he's an amazing young man, for sure. I tell him all the time you can use this testimony right now, this is your story, it's your timeline, but there are other young boys right now in your same situation and they're scared to talk about this and you can use it however you want. And he is. His words were when I asked him about doing this. He said you got to do it. Those were his exact words.

Jenny: 40:14

I mean, this is this is going to be his testimony and, uh, we talk about it all the time because I know from the very beginning, my dad told me the Lord's going to use this for his good. I know it doesn't seem like it right now, but that's why I'm doing this, Because I know that there's a mom out there who's had an inkling or is wondering what's wrong with their kid, or maybe there's a child who is scared to say anything, scared to say anything, and and I, I just I want these moms to follow their innate feeling and to and to parent with their eyes wide open and, um, uh, learn from my mistakes, because I don't have it all figured out. I just feel such a responsibility to challenge all of the moms to not miss the smoke signals. You know.

Mandy Majors: 41:11

I, I'm just in awe of your courage, your son's courage, I am.

Mandy Majors: 41:16

It's weird to say this because, as I have been working in this space over the last couple of years, this is the, this is the conversation that has grieved me the most, because people confide this in me, that this has happened and they're walking through it and they don't have anybody to talk to. And you know, their kids are in counseling and it's been reported and all the things have happened, but it's like they still feel this, like I can't tell anybody because everybody would look at us differently. And like I had one, one mom, one mom, you know, and she had given me permission to share this and I wrote about it in one of my books. But she said seven to eight years had passed and she had told nobody at her church. And like I was like what? Like the church should be the first place we run to when we find ourselves in a crisis and we don't because of the glossing over of the.

Mandy Majors: 42:15

You know this twisted the way Satan has twisted the minds that forgiveness means sweep it under the rug. To speak into that, because I know when I talk to you like we say sweeping under the rug a lot here, but when I talk to you, you used a kind of a different phrase and you're like I'm not a rug sweeper. Remember when you?

Jenny: 42:38

said that yeah, no, no, I don't. I don't do rug sweeping.

Mandy Majors: 42:47

Yeah, you say it very differently. So now I think that's the new language. We're going to use the Jenny language. We're not going to be rug sweepers, because that's better than just saying sweep it under the rug. That's like a noun that we're not going to pick up. I just am so thankful because I have been praying for somebody who's walked this to be able to share, because I can say it till I'm blue in the face Like this is happening, guys, this is happening. I'm seeing it and you've put a story to it. You've put a real person that we've gotten to know on the show. Today. You've put in your son and we've journeyed along with you and that brings, I think, so much more awareness, because it makes it real to us, it makes us like this is really happening, and these are the things I need to watch for, and you just have done that beautifully for us and I just can't thank you enough. Just thank you, thank you, thank you.

Jenny: 43:47

It was my honor, it really was.

Mandy Majors: 43:50

Jenny, you logged in today to record this and, of course, we had been texting yesterday that I was praying for you and you know, I knew this was a big, big. This is a big moment for you and hard. And you logged in today and I was praying all morning for you, thinking I can't imagine being her, having to come on and share this story today Like I just can't imagine it. And you started the call today, before we started recording, with something that God gave you today which I thought was beautiful.

Jenny: 44:24

Yeah, I was, you know, I think, a bit fearful maybe this morning as I was doing my Bible study, and so I started looking up scripture and, like I told y'all, I had this underlined in my Bible but I don't remember. I felt like it was the first time I've ever read it. But this is the verse Speak out on behalf of the voiceless and for the rights of all who are vulnerable, proverbs 31.8. So when I read that, I felt like I had a renewed strength and I was on a mission and I was thankful that we were talking today, because I know that there's a mom out there that needs to hear this and I'm just so thankful for the opportunity. And I can honestly say now I'm thankful for the testimony. Although it's really hard, I'm thankful for it because maybe it can save some other young boy and their family.

Mandy Majors: 45:25

I'm so thankful for you and I want to be, want to be you If I find myself in this situation like we all have to press in to the uncomfortable, because it's about protecting the kids.

Mandy Majors: 45:35

It's about protecting our children, the least vulnerable. Jenny, again, there are, just there aren't enough words to say thank you for your vulnerability, your honesty and man, just for anything. I just feel like that song about the Holy Spirit, the one that rose Jesus from the grave, lives in you. That's what keeps resounding in my head right now, because I keep thinking I'm seeing the Holy Spirit well up in this sweet mom, in this crisis, and I see the Holy Spirit taking over and creating a warrior in you and that you were just like, oh heck, no, we are, it's on, it's on Satan, and that's what I want us to. I think, gather, when you feel like you can't go forward, when you feel like you can't do all this hard stuff that Jenny did, you have the power of the Holy Spirit in you. He is going to give you the strength and he is saying take this step of obedience and speak out for the most vulnerable. Do it, speak up, report it, bring this into the light.

Jenny: 46:49

Amen yes.

Mandy Majors: 46:51

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