{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":0.169,"endTime":1.489,"body":"Gotta shake"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":0.169,"endTime":1.489,"body":"off the cobwebs here,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1.759,"endTime":2.06,"body":"Right,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3.32,"endTime":3.349,"body":"Shh."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":4.01,"endTime":4.52,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":13.488,"endTime":16.623,"body":"welcome to the Pick Place"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":13.488,"endTime":16.623,"body":"podcast, a show where we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":16.623,"endTime":19.083,"body":"talk about electronics,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":16.623,"endTime":19.083,"body":"manufacturing, and everything"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":19.143,"endTime":20.943,"body":"related to getting the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":19.143,"endTime":20.943,"body":"circuit board into the 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an"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":250.226,"endTime":254.207,"body":"episode of the podcast and get"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":254.207,"endTime":256.701,"body":"back to it because I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":254.207,"endTime":256.701,"body":"unlike I like to joke, I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":256.701,"endTime":257.811,"body":"sure some people do miss it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":257.901,"endTime":260.179,"body":"And we love all of you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":257.901,"endTime":260.179,"body":"and are grateful for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":260.479,"endTime":261.379,"body":"all of our listeners."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":261.439,"endTime":263.239,"body":"Very much, very much grateful."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":263.281,"endTime":264.121,"body":"How about you, Melissa?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":264.126,"endTime":266.521,"body":"What's ? What's new with you?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":266.579,"endTime":269.249,"body":"I've been not"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":266.579,"endTime":269.249,"body":"editing podcast, which"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":269.249,"endTime":273.149,"body":"has been, which has been a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":269.249,"endTime":273.149,"body":"strange break cuz it's become"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":273.154,"endTime":278.159,"body":"something that's just such a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":273.154,"endTime":278.159,"body":"significant part of my schedule."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":278.759,"endTime":282.209,"body":"Um, yeah, so just been finding"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":278.759,"endTime":282.209,"body":"new projects to work on,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":282.449,"endTime":286.439,"body":"focusing more on improving"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":282.449,"endTime":286.439,"body":"our website and 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B."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":376.899,"endTime":379.978,"body":"Anyway and we got, we got"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":376.899,"endTime":379.978,"body":"an expert on the show."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":379.978,"endTime":383.28,"body":"We wanna introduce Ryan"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":379.978,"endTime":383.28,"body":"Miller, who is a, I believe,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":383.7,"endTime":386.04,"body":"Ryan, correct me if I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":383.7,"endTime":386.04,"body":"wrong, but you are still a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":386.105,"endTime":389.255,"body":"field applications engineer"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":386.105,"endTime":389.255,"body":"for N C B, is that correct?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":390.89,"endTime":392.484,"body":"Yeah, Chris,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":390.89,"endTime":392.484,"body":"that's correct."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":392.484,"endTime":395.995,"body":"I'm a field 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Swedish."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":408.583,"endTime":411.971,"body":"we, we have factories"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":408.583,"endTime":411.971,"body":"in, in Europe here in"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":411.971,"endTime":415.781,"body":"the United States and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":411.971,"endTime":415.781,"body":"throughout China and Taiwan."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":415.901,"endTime":416.381,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":416.481,"endTime":416.646,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":416.646,"endTime":417.18,"body":"you know, we're."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":418.035,"endTime":421.952,"body":"Pretty big company, but we don't"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":418.035,"endTime":421.952,"body":"want to be the biggest company."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":421.952,"endTime":423.002,"body":"We just wanna be the best."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":423.002,"endTime":426.152,"body":"We wanna make sure the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":423.002,"endTime":426.152,"body":"PCB is delivered on time"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":426.512,"endTime":427.742,"body":"and that is accurate."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":428.252,"endTime":428.672,"body":"sure."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":428.702,"endTime":429.182,"body":"Right on."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":429.542,"endTime":432.536,"body":"And, and I believe if I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":429.542,"endTime":432.536,"body":"listeners may or may not"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":432.536,"endTime":435.093,"body":"be aware of this there's a,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":432.536,"endTime":435.093,"body":"there's a few different ways"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":435.093,"endTime":438.903,"body":"that circuit boards can, can"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":435.093,"endTime":438.903,"body":"be ordered by customer, by"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":438.903,"endTime":440.793,"body":"people like Melissa and myself."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":440.808,"endTime":444.96,"body":"We can go directly to a PCB"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":440.808,"endTime":444.96,"body":"factory and work with their"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":445.33,"endTime":447.06,"body":"engineering department,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":445.33,"endTime":447.06,"body":"these sorts of things."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":447.33,"endTime":450.335,"body":"But a lot of times the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":447.33,"endTime":450.335,"body":"PCB factory doesn't always"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":450.335,"endTime":454.257,"body":"wanna work directly with"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":450.335,"endTime":454.257,"body":"designers or assemblers."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":454.497,"endTime":457.464,"body":"A lot of times they, they"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":454.497,"endTime":457.464,"body":"the, the business models have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":457.464,"endTime":461.064,"body":"been set up to have more of a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":457.464,"endTime":461.064,"body":"brokerage model where you have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":461.19,"endTime":465.06,"body":"you have like a team of really"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":461.19,"endTime":465.06,"body":"highly skilled engineers who"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":465.06,"endTime":470.127,"body":"can take, take data understand"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":465.06,"endTime":470.127,"body":"it, you know, and, and find the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":470.127,"endTime":472.017,"body":"ideal factory to produce it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":472.077,"endTime":476.067,"body":"And if I, if I understand"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":472.077,"endTime":476.067,"body":"correctly, that's kind of, I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":476.067,"endTime":479.143,"body":"oversimplifying it, but that's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":476.067,"endTime":479.143,"body":"kind of NCAA b's business model."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":479.143,"endTime":480.253,"body":"Is that, is that right Ryan?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":480.958,"endTime":483.219,"body":"The, Yes, you you"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":480.958,"endTime":483.219,"body":"hit the nail on the head."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":483.247,"endTime":488.146,"body":"The advantage there is you"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":483.247,"endTime":488.146,"body":"know, we get to very carefully"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":488.151,"endTime":491.806,"body":"choose and select the factories"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":488.151,"endTime":491.806,"body":"that we work with so we can"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":491.811,"endTime":495.13,"body":"make sure we're getting the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":491.811,"endTime":495.13,"body":"best quality board possible."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":495.46,"endTime":498.873,"body":"And they we have a factory"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":495.46,"endTime":498.873,"body":"management team that audits"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":498.873,"endTime":504.753,"body":"factories for a year more"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":498.873,"endTime":504.753,"body":"before they make it to our"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":504.753,"endTime":506.103,"body":"primary selection list."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":506.538,"endTime":506.868,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":506.868,"endTime":507.318,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":507.438,"endTime":507.618,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":507.618,"endTime":508.078,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":508.1,"endTime":510.56,"body":"And it's, it's a nice business"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":508.1,"endTime":510.56,"body":"model because it means we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":510.56,"endTime":514.796,"body":"can, like, let's say let's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":510.56,"endTime":514.796,"body":"say I got a two layer PCB"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":514.796,"endTime":519.386,"body":"that's gonna go into a, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":514.796,"endTime":519.386,"body":"know, real simple business to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":519.386,"endTime":521.786,"body":"consumer product that's a toy"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":519.386,"endTime":521.786,"body":"or something that doesn't have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":521.786,"endTime":522.858,"body":"to last a whole long time."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":522.858,"endTime":525.042,"body":"I need to get the cost as"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":522.858,"endTime":525.042,"body":"low as possible on that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":525.042,"endTime":526.212,"body":"business to consumer costs."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":526.212,"endTime":527.412,"body":"You need them as"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":526.212,"endTime":527.412,"body":"low as possible."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":527.412,"endTime":532.112,"body":"So, NCAA B'S team they'll"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":527.412,"endTime":532.112,"body":"find the,  lowest cost."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":532.117,"endTime":534.362,"body":"You know, it's, oh, it's a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":532.117,"endTime":534.362,"body":"two layer, it's all 10 mil"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":534.367,"endTime":536.322,"body":"traces, no, no issues there."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":536.322,"endTime":539.675,"body":"Versus if I have a 16 layer."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":540.305,"endTime":544.44,"body":"Board with stacked vias and,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":540.305,"endTime":544.44,"body":"and controlled impedance that's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":544.44,"endTime":545.4,"body":"gonna be a different factory."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":546.03,"endTime":549.441,"body":"Yeah, we can, we can go"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":546.03,"endTime":549.441,"body":"all over the place from the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":549.801,"endTime":554.148,"body":"two layer boards that go into"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":549.801,"endTime":554.148,"body":"toys all the way up to the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":554.169,"endTime":557.843,"body":"HDI boards with, you know, I,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":554.169,"endTime":557.843,"body":"I like to call 'em the beast."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":557.843,"endTime":561.149,"body":"You know, they have blind"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":557.843,"endTime":561.149,"body":"buried vias and via fill"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":561.149,"endTime":562.569,"body":"controlled impedances."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":563.249,"endTime":563.669,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":564.029,"endTime":564.689,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":564.694,"endTime":567.869,"body":"Well, speaking of controlled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":564.694,"endTime":567.869,"body":"impedance, that is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":567.959,"endTime":569.392,"body":"that is what brings Mr."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":569.397,"endTime":572.302,"body":"Ryan to the Pick"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":569.397,"endTime":572.302,"body":"Place podcast today."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":572.316,"endTime":574.318,"body":"This, this topic of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":572.316,"endTime":574.318,"body":"controlled impedance."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":574.351,"endTime":577.593,"body":"I, you know, I have a friend"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":574.351,"endTime":577.593,"body":"who he, he helps to run a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":577.593,"endTime":580.364,"body":"factory and he knows next"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":577.593,"endTime":580.364,"body":"to nothing about controlled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":580.364,"endTime":581.744,"body":"impedance and this."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":582.209,"endTime":584.989,"body":"This friend of mine would really"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":582.209,"endTime":584.989,"body":"like to know more about it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":584.989,"endTime":587.613,"body":"And because when he is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":584.989,"endTime":587.613,"body":"talking to his customers  he"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":587.613,"endTime":590.193,"body":"doesn't know what controlled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":587.613,"endTime":590.193,"body":"impedance is and he doesn't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":590.193,"endTime":591.153,"body":"wanna sound like a fool."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":591.153,"endTime":594.46,"body":"So, for my friend if you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":591.153,"endTime":594.46,"body":"could maybe explain to our"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":594.465,"endTime":598.78,"body":"listeners, maybe at like a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":594.465,"endTime":598.78,"body":"very generic level and then"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":598.78,"endTime":599.74,"body":"we'll get into details."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":599.74,"endTime":602.8,"body":"What, what, how would you define"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":599.74,"endTime":602.8,"body":"what controlled impedance is?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":602.8,"endTime":605.29,"body":"Cause my friend really,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":602.8,"endTime":605.29,"body":"really doesn't know."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":606.295,"endTime":610.54,"body":"Well, I think what, I'll"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":606.295,"endTime":610.54,"body":"tell your friend and I think"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":610.54,"endTime":613.837,"body":"it's important to start at"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":610.54,"endTime":613.837,"body":"the question of why do we need"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":613.837,"endTime":615.427,"body":"controlled impedance traces?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":615.857,"endTime":616.912,"body":"My friend would"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":615.857,"endTime":616.912,"body":"like to know that."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":617.047,"endTime":619.657,"body":"yeah, well, there's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":617.047,"endTime":619.657,"body":"a few different reasons."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":619.662,"endTime":624.254,"body":"One is, is you know, we need"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":619.662,"endTime":624.254,"body":"impedance matching for antennas."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":624.629,"endTime":625.539,"body":"Antennas okay."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":625.542,"endTime":628.662,"body":"Another reason is maybe"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":625.542,"endTime":628.662,"body":"for a differential pair for"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":628.662,"endTime":634.967,"body":"a USB connection or another"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":628.662,"endTime":634.967,"body":"reason is like maybe an FPGA or"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":635.167,"endTime":638.694,"body":"a component needs propagation"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":635.167,"endTime":638.694,"body":"delay in the signals to"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":638.694,"endTime":640.799,"body":"make accurate calculations."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":641.399,"endTime":642.759,"body":"So there are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":642.764,"endTime":645.584,"body":"back to those crypto"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":642.764,"endTime":645.584,"body":"guys with their f PGAs."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":645.959,"endTime":646.559,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":647.039,"endTime":647.549,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":647.879,"endTime":652.067,"body":"And, and, and I'm, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":647.879,"endTime":652.067,"body":"no expert on components,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":652.072,"endTime":654.737,"body":"so I don't know all the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":652.072,"endTime":654.737,"body":"components on the market that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":654.812,"endTime":654.992,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":654.997,"endTime":655.572,"body":"No worries."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":655.601,"endTime":656.561,"body":"But you don't have to."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":656.591,"endTime":659.189,"body":"That's the beauty of"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":656.591,"endTime":659.189,"body":"controlled impedance traces."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":659.198,"endTime":661.358,"body":"I, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":659.198,"endTime":661.358,"body":"they're, they're too"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":661.358,"endTime":662.708,"body":"difficult to understand."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":662.713,"endTime":664.741,"body":"They're just misunderstood."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":664.856,"endTime":665.34,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":665.34,"endTime":667.755,"body":"There's not a whole lot"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":665.34,"endTime":667.755,"body":"of training out there about."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":668.59,"endTime":671.145,"body":"when you say that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":668.59,"endTime":671.145,"body":"like, Let's, so you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":671.145,"endTime":672.435,"body":"three specific things."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":672.494,"endTime":674.954,"body":"And maybe we can, I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":672.494,"endTime":674.954,"body":"sure there's much broader"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":674.954,"endTime":677.234,"body":"applications for this than those"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":674.954,"endTime":677.234,"body":"three specific things, but you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":677.234,"endTime":681.765,"body":"mentioned antennas USB signals"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":677.234,"endTime":681.765,"body":"and fpga something very fancy"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":681.77,"endTime":684.997,"body":"propagation anyway but in, in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":681.77,"endTime":684.997,"body":"antenna, you, When you say in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":684.997,"endTime":687.727,"body":"antenna, you mean like maybe"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":684.997,"endTime":687.727,"body":"literally something like a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":687.727,"endTime":691.117,"body":"Bluetooth antenna or, or a wifi"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":687.727,"endTime":691.117,"body":"antenna, or are you talking like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":691.117,"endTime":695.366,"body":"something more high end custom"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":691.117,"endTime":695.366,"body":"job for, for that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":695.438,"endTime":696.698,"body":"It could be either one."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":696.923,"endTime":696.953,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":696.965,"endTime":699.643,"body":"I've seen circuit"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":696.965,"endTime":699.643,"body":"boards with the antenna"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":699.652,"endTime":703.012,"body":"just etched right into the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":699.652,"endTime":703.012,"body":"board and it's gonna stay"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":703.102,"endTime":704.542,"body":"at, you know, right there."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":704.812,"endTime":709.019,"body":"Or it could be something"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":704.812,"endTime":709.019,"body":"RF or something like"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":709.019,"endTime":712.259,"body":"that, that's gonna need an"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":709.019,"endTime":712.259,"body":"external antenna connection."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":713.384,"endTime":713.594,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":714.054,"endTime":714.294,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":715.284,"endTime":719.744,"body":"Do you know the why's as to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":715.284,"endTime":719.744,"body":"like, if I'm designing an"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":719.744,"endTime":722.864,"body":"antenna or I, I have this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":719.744,"endTime":722.864,"body":"trace on my board that is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":722.869,"endTime":724.034,"body":"gonna act as an antenna."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":724.904,"endTime":726.044,"body":"Why does it even matter?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":726.044,"endTime":728.774,"body":"What, why can't I just stick a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":726.044,"endTime":728.774,"body":"piece of copper down and, and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":728.774,"endTime":730.544,"body":"hope for the hope for the best?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":732.404,"endTime":734.856,"body":"Okay, well, I'll,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":732.404,"endTime":734.856,"body":"I'll try to explain this."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":734.906,"endTime":739.106,"body":"From what I remember back when"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":734.906,"endTime":739.106,"body":"I was in Signals and Systems"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":739.106,"endTime":742.314,"body":"class when I was getting"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":739.106,"endTime":742.314,"body":"my degree For the, the RF"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":742.314,"endTime":745.944,"body":"signal to make it from one"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":742.314,"endTime":745.944,"body":"location, you know, from the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":746.394,"endTime":747.714,"body":"transmitter to the receiver."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":748.164,"endTime":751.23,"body":"The impedances have 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almost"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":768.401,"endTime":772.451,"body":"get this, you know, my, my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":772.456,"endTime":774.911,"body":"little pea brain makes, it,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":772.456,"endTime":774.911,"body":"makes me think of like water"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":774.916,"endTime":777.581,"body":"sloshing in a, in a, in a bucket"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":774.916,"endTime":777.581,"body":"or something where it like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":777.581,"endTime":780.071,"body":"pushes back on itself when it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":777.581,"endTime":780.071,"body":"like, no, it really needs to go"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":780.071,"endTime":782.921,"body":"the one, the one direction, but"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":780.071,"endTime":782.921,"body":"somehow it's reflecting back."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":784.436,"endTime":784.976,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":785.096,"endTime":787.976,"body":"And, and you know, after it"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":785.096,"endTime":787.976,"body":"leaves the receiver, it's at"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":787.976,"endTime":792.236,"body":"the mercy of the environment"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":787.976,"endTime":792.236,"body":"around until it gets or after"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":792.236,"endTime":793.346,"body":"it leaves the transmitter."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":793.671,"endTime":793.991,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":794.441,"endTime":796.631,"body":"It's at the mercy"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":794.441,"endTime":796.631,"body":"of the environment till it"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":796.631,"endTime":799.811,"body":"gets through the receiver"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":796.631,"endTime":799.811,"body":"and on the receiver end."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":799.991,"endTime":803.981,"body":"That antenna and impedance"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":799.991,"endTime":803.981,"body":"trace and those connections,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":804.041,"endTime":806.411,"body":"all the impedances have"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":804.041,"endTime":806.411,"body":"to match there as well."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":806.431,"endTime":811.19,"body":"I, I'm not gonna pretend"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":806.431,"endTime":811.19,"body":"to know anything else about"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":811.19,"endTime":812.87,"body":"radio frequency transmission."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":812.87,"endTime":813.68,"body":"I have no idea."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":813.995,"endTime":816.065,"body":"Don't, don't, don't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":813.995,"endTime":816.065,"body":"apologize for that at all."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":816.065,"endTime":817.385,"body":"That's, that's totally fine."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":817.385,"endTime":817.715,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":817.775,"endTime":820.505,"body":"I, I just, and I didn't want"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":817.775,"endTime":820.505,"body":"to get into the specifics of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":820.505,"endTime":823.245,"body":"it, but at least at a general"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":820.505,"endTime":823.245,"body":"level because honestly,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":823.25,"endTime":825.999,"body":"I, I've never understood"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":823.25,"endTime":825.999,"body":"what what it's used for."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":825.999,"endTime":826.269,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":826.269,"endTime":828.669,"body":"Like when you're in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":826.269,"endTime":828.669,"body":"manufacturing, and obviously"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":828.759,"endTime":830.859,"body":"you know this too, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":828.759,"endTime":830.859,"body":"like, I'm just trying to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":830.859,"endTime":832.719,"body":"figure out how to make it,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":830.859,"endTime":832.719,"body":"I don't know what it does."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":832.719,"endTime":834.909,"body":"It could be a concrete"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":832.719,"endTime":834.909,"body":"life jacket for all I know."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":834.909,"endTime":838.029,"body":"I just , somebody gives me a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":834.909,"endTime":838.029,"body":"print and I'm trying to build it"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":838.794,"endTime":841.554,"body":"Yeah, that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":838.794,"endTime":841.554,"body":"where my job is easy."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":841.724,"endTime":845.124,"body":"I, you know, I follow the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":841.724,"endTime":845.124,"body":"Gerber data, the specifications"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":845.129,"endTime":847.884,"body":"that the customer sends,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":845.129,"endTime":847.884,"body":"and if there's a problem"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":847.884,"endTime":849.472,"body":"I'll just go ask about it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":849.757,"endTime":850.687,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":850.777,"endTime":853.418,"body":"Well, one of the nice things"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":850.777,"endTime":853.418,"body":"you guys have done for us in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":853.423,"endTime":857.708,"body":"the past is we had a customer"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":853.423,"endTime":857.708,"body":"who had, they got a quote from"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":857.713,"endTime":860.708,"body":"you guys that was like, hundreds"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":857.713,"endTime":860.708,"body":"of dollars for this board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":860.948,"endTime":862.598,"body":"And I looked at the board"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":860.948,"endTime":862.598,"body":"and I'm like, This doesn't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":862.598,"endTime":863.628,"body":"look anymore different."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":863.988,"endTime":866.423,"body":"Than any of these other boards"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":863.988,"endTime":866.423,"body":"I've ever built in the past."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":866.472,"endTime":869.382,"body":"I don't know why it's hundreds"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":866.472,"endTime":869.382,"body":"of dollars per board and my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":869.742,"endTime":871.932,"body":"customer's, like, I I was"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":869.742,"endTime":871.932,"body":"expecting to get these for less"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":871.932,"endTime":873.732,"body":"than like 30, 40 bucks a board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":874.242,"endTime":877.332,"body":"Well, once, once you guys"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":874.242,"endTime":877.332,"body":"took a look at it and you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":877.332,"endTime":879.852,"body":"looked at the data, you're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":877.332,"endTime":879.852,"body":"able to say, Well, look,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":879.902,"endTime":884.042,"body":"you've got all kinds of weird"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":879.902,"endTime":884.042,"body":"design issues here and you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":884.042,"endTime":887.852,"body":"know, I don't know if these are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":884.042,"endTime":887.852,"body":"deliberate or not, but this is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":887.852,"endTime":889.142,"body":"what's driving all the cost."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":889.142,"endTime":892.082,"body":"You've got these stacked vias"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":889.142,"endTime":892.082,"body":"and you've got these blind vias"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":892.082,"endTime":895.292,"body":"and you've got these fills and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":892.082,"endTime":895.292,"body":"I don't know that you need all"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":895.292,"endTime":898.329,"body":"that if you can eliminate and,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":895.292,"endTime":898.329,"body":"and that NCB and our customer"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":898.329,"endTime":901.419,"body":"worked closely together on"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":898.329,"endTime":901.419,"body":"it and drove just completely"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":901.419,"endTime":904.059,"body":"eliminated all those high"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":901.419,"endTime":904.059,"body":"cost things on the, on the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":904.059,"endTime":906.039,"body":"design, and it was a huge help."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":906.099,"endTime":909.069,"body":"So yeah, sometimes you just"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":906.099,"endTime":909.069,"body":"look at Gerber data, but also"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":909.069,"endTime":911.499,"body":"you look at enough of it that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":909.069,"endTime":911.499,"body":"you start to go, Ah, I don't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":911.499,"endTime":912.489,"body":"think you're doing this right,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":913.504,"endTime":917.206,"body":"Yeah, I, I've looked at"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":913.504,"endTime":917.206,"body":"Gerber data you know, before"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":917.206,"endTime":920.356,"body":"I started working for NCAB"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":917.206,"endTime":920.356,"body":"group, I actually worked for a"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":920.356,"endTime":922.486,"body":"PCB manufacturer for 10 years."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":923.116,"endTime":927.476,"body":"And nine of those 10 years,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":923.116,"endTime":927.476,"body":"I Did nothing but DFM"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":927.476,"endTime":929.276,"body":"analysis on rigid boards."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":929.336,"endTime":929.966,"body":"Oh, cool."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":930.326,"endTime":933.416,"body":"And so I've seen a"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":930.326,"endTime":933.416,"body":"few sets of Gerber data."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":933.548,"endTime":937.058,"body":"You know, when we see something"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":933.548,"endTime":937.058,"body":"on Gerber data that looks"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":937.058,"endTime":940.658,"body":"questionable, I always try"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":937.058,"endTime":940.658,"body":"to give the, the designers"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":940.663,"endTime":941.888,"body":"a benefit of the doubt."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":942.218,"endTime":942.518,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":942.518,"endTime":944.708,"body":"you know, I, I've met"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":942.518,"endTime":944.708,"body":"designers from all walks of"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":944.708,"endTime":946.448,"body":"life and all skill levels"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":946.688,"endTime":946.988,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":947.079,"endTime":949.839,"body":"I always try to"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":947.079,"endTime":949.839,"body":"do my best to help the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":950.269,"endTime":951.309,"body":"designer reach their goal."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":952.119,"endTime":956.468,"body":"So, if, if there's one"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":952.119,"endTime":956.468,"body":"thing that I constantly"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":956.468,"endTime":961.208,"body":"see, something that could"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":956.468,"endTime":961.208,"body":"be changed or something that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":961.418,"endTime":964.221,"body":"even needs to be changed"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":961.418,"endTime":964.221,"body":"consistently as controlled"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":964.311,"endTime":966.531,"body":"impedance traces and stackups."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":966.531,"endTime":967.041,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":967.281,"endTime":967.551,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":967.566,"endTime":969.816,"body":"That's fa Well that's, that's,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":967.566,"endTime":969.816,"body":"that's great to know then."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":969.816,"endTime":973.437,"body":"So, I guess that leads me into"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":969.816,"endTime":973.437,"body":"my next question very well."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":973.464,"endTime":977.244,"body":"When, when somebody is sitting"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":973.464,"endTime":977.244,"body":"down and they, let's say"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":977.244,"endTime":980.085,"body":"they've got how comfortable"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":977.244,"endTime":980.085,"body":"are you talking about usbc?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":980.115,"endTime":982.695,"body":"Cuz I feel like that's something"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":980.115,"endTime":982.695,"body":"that probably requires a,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":982.7,"endTime":985.128,"body":"a fair bit of controlled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":982.7,"endTime":985.128,"body":"impedance on those things."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":986.158,"endTime":989.118,"body":"Yeah, I can, I can talk"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":986.158,"endTime":989.118,"body":"anything controlled impedance,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":989.148,"endTime":993.738,"body":"but my knowledge pretty much,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":989.148,"endTime":993.738,"body":"pretty much terminates at the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":993.768,"endTime":995.178,"body":"termination of the traces,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":995.343,"endTime":995.793,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":995.913,"endTime":996.813,"body":"That's totally fine."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":997.053,"endTime":999.033,"body":"I don't, I don't wanna"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":997.053,"endTime":999.033,"body":"necessarily talk about the,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":999.093,"endTime":1002.76,"body":"the stack up of of, of what,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":999.093,"endTime":1002.76,"body":"what's the word I'm looking for?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1003.84,"endTime":1007.23,"body":"You know, we're not the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1003.84,"endTime":1007.23,"body":"IEEE here, we're just, all"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1007.235,"endTime":1010.11,"body":"I wanna talk about is, let's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1007.235,"endTime":1010.11,"body":"say I've got a USBC design"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1010.145,"endTime":1010.755,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1011.04,"endTime":1012.87,"body":"and I've got"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1011.04,"endTime":1012.87,"body":"controlled impedance,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1012.875,"endTime":1015.78,"body":"cuz I've got differential"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1012.875,"endTime":1015.78,"body":"pairs on this USB design."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1016.203,"endTime":1019.113,"body":"If, if, if I was laying"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1016.203,"endTime":1019.113,"body":"out this board as."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1020.403,"endTime":1023.943,"body":"An idiot that I am, When it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1020.403,"endTime":1023.943,"body":"comes to PCB layout, I would"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1023.943,"endTime":1026.823,"body":"just draw two little traces"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1023.943,"endTime":1026.823,"body":"from whatever, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1027.003,"endTime":1030.813,"body":"USB chip is on the board and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1027.003,"endTime":1030.813,"body":"stick them into the USB port."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1030.842,"endTime":1033.157,"body":"And I would probably completely"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1030.842,"endTime":1033.157,"body":"screw that up . But I know that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1033.157,"endTime":1035.197,"body":"there needs to be controlled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1033.157,"endTime":1035.197,"body":"impedance on that thing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1035.587,"endTime":1039.11,"body":"When you, when you get"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1035.587,"endTime":1039.11,"body":"designs how, how are you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1039.38,"endTime":1040.67,"body":"looking at these things?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1040.91,"endTime":1044.75,"body":"Am I telling you, am I telling"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1040.91,"endTime":1044.75,"body":"you that I need controlled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1044.75,"endTime":1046.31,"body":"impedance on specific traces?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1046.315,"endTime":1050.54,"body":"Or are you looking at it and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1046.315,"endTime":1050.54,"body":"knowing that there needs to be"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1050.54,"endTime":1053.33,"body":"controlled impedance here and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1050.54,"endTime":1053.33,"body":"there because, Oh, I recognize"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1053.33,"endTime":1055.37,"body":"this, that this customer"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1053.33,"endTime":1055.37,"body":"should be doing controlled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1055.46,"endTime":1056.36,"body":"impedance on these lines."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1056.369,"endTime":1057.162,"body":"Should tell us."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1057.222,"endTime":1059.092,"body":"Always be specific."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1059.092,"endTime":1063.026,"body":"I've seen many boards over the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1059.092,"endTime":1063.026,"body":"years that don't have controlled"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1063.116,"endTime":1066.083,"body":"impedance requirements on"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1063.116,"endTime":1066.083,"body":"their fabrication drawings."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1066.083,"endTime":1068.609,"body":"But if you look at the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1066.083,"endTime":1068.609,"body":"Gerber data you can see"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1068.609,"endTime":1072.089,"body":"that there obviously are"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1068.609,"endTime":1072.089,"body":"controlled impedance traces."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1072.152,"endTime":1073.322,"body":"And you can do it that way."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1073.322,"endTime":1074.162,"body":"It works."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1074.197,"endTime":1077.81,"body":"The downside of it is if,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1074.197,"endTime":1077.81,"body":"if something happens and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1077.84,"endTime":1079.94,"body":"those traces don't work,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1080.33,"endTime":1082.897,"body":"that that weren't"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1080.33,"endTime":1082.897,"body":"specified it can't be a"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1082.902,"endTime":1084.857,"body":"cost to reject that board."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1084.857,"endTime":1086.552,"body":"You're pretty much accepting it."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1087.152,"endTime":1087.692,"body":"You have to."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1088.262,"endTime":1090.512,"body":"But because you've"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1088.262,"endTime":1090.512,"body":"got 10 plus years experience"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1090.517,"endTime":1092.822,"body":"doing this, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1090.517,"endTime":1092.822,"body":"you can sniff it out."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1092.837,"endTime":1095.747,"body":"But that, that's not the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1092.837,"endTime":1095.747,"body":"listeners of the Pick Place"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1095.747,"endTime":1097.067,"body":"podcast are smarter than that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1097.072,"endTime":1099.135,"body":"They're gonna tell you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1097.072,"endTime":1099.135,"body":"that they need  controlled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1099.135,"endTime":1100.035,"body":"impedance on their design."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1100.035,"endTime":1100.305,"body":"But"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1101.07,"endTime":1103.74,"body":"so here's, here's,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1101.07,"endTime":1103.74,"body":"here's how the, the listeners"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1103.74,"endTime":1105.03,"body":"should specify their"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1105.285,"endTime":1105.705,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1105.705,"endTime":1106.245,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1106.312,"endTime":1107.698,"body":"We wanna keep it simple."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1107.715,"endTime":1111.645,"body":"Specify the structure, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1107.715,"endTime":1111.645,"body":"know, if it's a coded micro"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1111.645,"endTime":1115.785,"body":"strip and embedded micro"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1111.645,"endTime":1115.785,"body":"strip offset strip line."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1116.805,"endTime":1118.845,"body":"Let's see what"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1116.805,"endTime":1118.845,"body":"else we have here."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1118.946,"endTime":1124.009,"body":"Edge coupled and embedded,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1118.946,"endTime":1124.009,"body":"edge coupled broadside and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1124.309,"endTime":1128.222,"body":"co plainer strips and co"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1124.309,"endTime":1128.222,"body":"plainer wave guides to ground."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1128.251,"endTime":1131.011,"body":"Those are the, those are"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1128.251,"endTime":1131.011,"body":"quite a few structures."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1131.536,"endTime":1133.576,"body":"I think I finally"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1131.536,"endTime":1133.576,"body":"understand how my grandmother"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1133.576,"endTime":1135.646,"body":"feels when she listens to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1133.576,"endTime":1135.646,"body":"the Pick Place podcast, cuz"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1135.646,"endTime":1137.836,"body":"you may as well be speaking"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1135.646,"endTime":1137.836,"body":"Latin to me right now,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1138.691,"endTime":1141.031,"body":"Well,  we will take"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1138.691,"endTime":1141.031,"body":"the time to explain it."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1141.078,"endTime":1145.098,"body":"We'll start general and get"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1141.078,"endTime":1145.098,"body":"deeper into this if we need to."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1145.158,"endTime":1146.398,"body":"That's, that's what"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1145.158,"endTime":1146.398,"body":"we're here for."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1146.427,"endTime":1151.617,"body":"So, you know, you wanna, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1146.427,"endTime":1151.617,"body":"wanna make sure you have the,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1152.577,"endTime":1156.027,"body":"the structure identified and,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1152.577,"endTime":1156.027,"body":"you know, I, the first one I"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1156.027,"endTime":1157.933,"body":"said was coded micro strip."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1157.972,"endTime":1161.152,"body":"It, it's often referred to"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1157.972,"endTime":1161.152,"body":"as a single-ended trace."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1161.157,"endTime":1163.012,"body":"They're commonly attached."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1163.012,"endTime":1164.383,"body":"It's, it is a single trace."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1164.383,"endTime":1166.093,"body":"They're commonly"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1164.383,"endTime":1166.093,"body":"attached to antenna,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1166.678,"endTime":1167.168,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1167.353,"endTime":1168.823,"body":"for antenna connections."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1168.876,"endTime":1173.186,"body":"And they're commonly"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1168.876,"endTime":1173.186,"body":"around 50 oms 75 oms."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1173.576,"endTime":1176.666,"body":"I've even seen a couple"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1173.576,"endTime":1176.666,"body":"39 oms, I believe."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1177.191,"endTime":1179.441,"body":"And, and these,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1177.191,"endTime":1179.441,"body":"these requirements, do they"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1179.441,"endTime":1182.191,"body":"typically come from  the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1179.441,"endTime":1182.191,"body":"chip manufacturer, like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1182.191,"endTime":1185.321,"body":"Texas instrument tells the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1182.191,"endTime":1185.321,"body":"designer like, Hey, when"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1185.321,"endTime":1188.126,"body":"you use our chip and you're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1185.321,"endTime":1188.126,"body":"doing this antenna  here's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1188.156,"endTime":1190.826,"body":"the controlled impedance you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1188.156,"endTime":1190.826,"body":"need for this specific design."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1190.826,"endTime":1192.806,"body":"Make sure you tell your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1190.826,"endTime":1192.806,"body":"fab that you need this."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1193.731,"endTime":1196.481,"body":"Yeah, most certainly"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1193.731,"endTime":1196.481,"body":"the, the chip data sheets"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1196.533,"endTime":1199.771,"body":"should have the impedance"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1196.533,"endTime":1199.771,"body":"requirements right there."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1199.831,"endTime":1203.277,"body":"Most of the time when I'm"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1199.831,"endTime":1203.277,"body":"working with Layout designers,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1203.277,"endTime":1206.007,"body":"they always say, I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1203.277,"endTime":1206.007,"body":"go to the double E to get"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1206.007,"endTime":1207.297,"body":"the impedance requirements."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1207.37,"endTime":1208.72,"body":"Had one of those this morning."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1208.797,"endTime":1213.387,"body":"So the electrical engineers"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1208.797,"endTime":1213.387,"body":"often know because they're,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1213.387,"endTime":1216.235,"body":"they're building the circuit,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1213.387,"endTime":1216.235,"body":"they're designing the circuit."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1216.25,"endTime":1219.13,"body":"They, they will know what"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1216.25,"endTime":1219.13,"body":"kind of impedances they need."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1219.82,"endTime":1223.758,"body":"That information gets passed"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1219.82,"endTime":1223.758,"body":"to the layout engineer and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1223.82,"endTime":1226.36,"body":"I'm always happy to talk"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1223.82,"endTime":1226.36,"body":"with the layout engineer."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1226.49,"endTime":1230.338,"body":"I've met some layout engineers"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1226.49,"endTime":1230.338,"body":"kind of like you over the years"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1230.338,"endTime":1234.138,"body":"that they know they need the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1230.338,"endTime":1234.138,"body":"impedance traces, but they"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1234.298,"endTime":1235.664,"body":"don't know what they need."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1235.664,"endTime":1237.524,"body":"It is, it's just like"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1235.664,"endTime":1237.524,"body":"another language to."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1238.634,"endTime":1243.194,"body":"So if we're moving along after"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1238.634,"endTime":1243.194,"body":"we identify, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1243.194,"endTime":1245.684,"body":"kind of trace we need, that's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1243.194,"endTime":1245.684,"body":"what the structure's gonna be."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1246.134,"endTime":1249.743,"body":"Do we need a differential"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1246.134,"endTime":1249.743,"body":"pair running to a USB"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1250.163,"endTime":1251.753,"body":"or another component?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1251.753,"endTime":1256.447,"body":"Or do we need a single ended or"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1251.753,"endTime":1256.447,"body":"maybe we have an RF application"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1256.447,"endTime":1259.345,"body":"where we need broadside"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1256.447,"endTime":1259.345,"body":"coupled, or not a broadside"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1259.345,"endTime":1263.722,"body":"couple, but a coded ground wave"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1259.345,"endTime":1263.722,"body":"coded co plainer wave guide."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1264.142,"endTime":1267.172,"body":"You know, that's a trace"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1264.142,"endTime":1267.172,"body":"where we have, it's like a"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1267.177,"endTime":1269.902,"body":"single ended trace, but on"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1267.177,"endTime":1269.902,"body":"both sides of that trace,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1269.902,"endTime":1271.252,"body":"we have a ground plane."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1271.612,"endTime":1271.929,"body":"Oh"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1271.97,"endTime":1275.03,"body":"so it, there's another"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1271.97,"endTime":1275.03,"body":"reference there that we have"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1275.03,"endTime":1277.31,"body":"to make sure we calculate for."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1278.25,"endTime":1278.49,"body":"interesting."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1278.495,"endTime":1281.27,"body":"Cuz my, again, my little"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1278.495,"endTime":1281.27,"body":"pea brain just thinks like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1281.275,"endTime":1284.18,"body":"well they're not touching"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1281.275,"endTime":1284.18,"body":"electrically, but I guess"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1284.18,"endTime":1286.07,"body":"because it's like radio waves."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1286.34,"endTime":1288.74,"body":"They somehow do interact"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1286.34,"endTime":1288.74,"body":"with each other even though"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1288.74,"endTime":1290.75,"body":"they're not physically"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1288.74,"endTime":1290.75,"body":"connected to each other."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1290.75,"endTime":1293.0,"body":"Because I guess that's the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1290.75,"endTime":1293.0,"body":"whole point of it, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1293.0,"endTime":1296.27,"body":"Is you're, you're sending out"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1293.0,"endTime":1296.27,"body":"some kind of radio frequency."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1296.45,"endTime":1298.82,"body":"Now, it doesn't matter that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1296.45,"endTime":1298.82,"body":"it's not two copper connections,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1298.82,"endTime":1300.8,"body":"it's somehow gonna have an"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1298.82,"endTime":1300.8,"body":"interface with each other."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1301.4,"endTime":1302.0,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1302.0,"endTime":1302.6,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1302.605,"endTime":1305.54,"body":"And, and that's a great segue"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1302.605,"endTime":1305.54,"body":"to talk about the differential"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1305.54,"endTime":1308.39,"body":"pairs because we really haven't"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1305.54,"endTime":1308.39,"body":"talked about how they work yet."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1308.405,"endTime":1312.475,"body":"Kind of like, the co-planning"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1308.405,"endTime":1312.475,"body":"coplanar wave guide,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1312.475,"endTime":1315.325,"body":"but you now, now you"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1312.475,"endTime":1315.325,"body":"have two traces that are"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1315.325,"endTime":1316.735,"body":"interacting with each other."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1318.085,"endTime":1318.865,"body":"let's see."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1319.615,"endTime":1323.065,"body":"these traces are gonna"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1319.615,"endTime":1323.065,"body":"come off of some USB chip or"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1323.065,"endTime":1327.415,"body":"whatever it is, and they're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1323.065,"endTime":1327.415,"body":"going into a port and they"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1327.415,"endTime":1330.925,"body":"need, you know, the, the, the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1327.415,"endTime":1330.925,"body":"designer of that port and the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1330.925,"endTime":1333.655,"body":"designer of that chip is saying"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1330.925,"endTime":1333.655,"body":"like, Hey, if you wanna have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1333.66,"endTime":1336.115,"body":"success here and you wanna"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1333.66,"endTime":1336.115,"body":"have a solid communication,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1336.445,"endTime":1337.675,"body":"you need to do it this way."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1337.765,"endTime":1339.565,"body":"And you need to have this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1337.765,"endTime":1339.565,"body":"controlled impedance in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1339.825,"endTime":1340.633,"body":"your design to get it to."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1342.148,"endTime":1342.508,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1342.508,"endTime":1347.008,"body":"So if, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1342.508,"endTime":1347.008,"body":"ha the impedances are"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1347.013,"endTime":1348.028,"body":"gonna have to work."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1348.093,"endTime":1349.923,"body":"If the impedances"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1348.093,"endTime":1349.923,"body":"don't work, then the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1349.923,"endTime":1351.063,"body":"circuit's not gonna work."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1351.063,"endTime":1354.835,"body":"And so the board really"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1351.063,"endTime":1354.835,"body":"is the more than just the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1354.835,"endTime":1356.485,"body":"foundation to hold the circuit."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1356.515,"endTime":1361.385,"body":"The board in some circumstances"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1356.515,"endTime":1361.385,"body":"is actually interacting"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1361.39,"endTime":1364.705,"body":"with the circuit to help it"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1361.39,"endTime":1364.705,"body":"work, to do what it needs"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1364.705,"endTime":1366.085,"body":"to do to function properly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1366.325,"endTime":1368.155,"body":"I think that's what"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1366.325,"endTime":1368.155,"body":"blows my mind about controlled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1368.155,"endTime":1371.155,"body":"impedance is I've always, I've"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1368.155,"endTime":1371.155,"body":"always thought of a circuit"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1371.155,"endTime":1375.355,"body":"board as basically just like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1371.155,"endTime":1375.355,"body":"a really fancy cable harness."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1375.965,"endTime":1376.455,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1376.8,"endTime":1378.055,"body":"all it's doing"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1376.8,"endTime":1378.055,"body":"is just connecting a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1378.055,"endTime":1379.015,"body":"bunch of things together."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1379.345,"endTime":1382.975,"body":"But with controlled impedance,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1379.345,"endTime":1382.975,"body":"it becomes it's own chip."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1383.005,"endTime":1386.905,"body":"Almost like that's, that's,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1383.005,"endTime":1386.905,"body":"you know, a gross exaggeration."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1386.905,"endTime":1389.335,"body":"But it be, all of a sudden,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1386.905,"endTime":1389.335,"body":"the board itself becomes"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1389.34,"endTime":1392.665,"body":"an integral part of the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1389.34,"endTime":1392.665,"body":"functionality of the product."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1392.665,"endTime":1394.915,"body":"It's not just gluing"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1392.665,"endTime":1394.915,"body":"everything together and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1394.915,"endTime":1395.875,"body":"making the connections."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1395.995,"endTime":1396.745,"body":"It is actually."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1397.555,"endTime":1399.355,"body":"Generating something,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1397.555,"endTime":1399.355,"body":"you're, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1399.355,"endTime":1402.115,"body":"having an impact on the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1399.355,"endTime":1402.115,"body":"functionality of it, which is"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1402.19,"endTime":1402.82,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1403.24,"endTime":1404.456,"body":"Yeah, most definitely."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1404.473,"endTime":1407.593,"body":"You know, and, and along those"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1404.473,"endTime":1407.593,"body":"lines, you know, we also build"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1407.647,"endTime":1409.777,"body":"EMI protection into boards with,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1409.852,"endTime":1410.242,"body":"Oh boy."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1410.707,"endTime":1412.447,"body":"planes, you know, so"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1412.492,"endTime":1413.992,"body":"Guess we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1412.492,"endTime":1413.992,"body":"have to get you back on to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1413.992,"endTime":1415.222,"body":"talk about EMI protection."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1416.437,"endTime":1416.767,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1417.622,"endTime":1418.102,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1418.192,"endTime":1424.012,"body":"go down that rabbit"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1418.192,"endTime":1424.012,"body":"hole, but, so, okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1424.017,"endTime":1426.152,"body":"If I can, if I can back"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1424.017,"endTime":1426.152,"body":"up for just a second here."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1426.223,"endTime":1430.843,"body":"You mentioned a specific"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1426.223,"endTime":1430.843,"body":"resistance value for some"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1430.843,"endTime":1431.713,"body":"of these traces, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1431.713,"endTime":1434.023,"body":"You said 50ohm s,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1431.713,"endTime":1434.023,"body":"75 ohms, 39ohm s."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1434.893,"endTime":1438.793,"body":"Again, my little pea brain"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1434.893,"endTime":1438.793,"body":"says, Well, it sounds like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1438.793,"endTime":1441.433,"body":"it's just a resistor, but I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1438.793,"endTime":1441.433,"body":"think I'm oversimplifying that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1441.523,"endTime":1443.623,"body":"it's, it's an impedance value."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1443.623,"endTime":1445.884,"body":"It's not a resistance"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1443.623,"endTime":1445.884,"body":"value, but that's still"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1445.889,"endTime":1447.013,"body":"measured in ohms somehow"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1448.183,"endTime":1449.593,"body":"is a very good question."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1449.743,"endTime":1451.393,"body":"Let me explain the difference."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1451.493,"endTime":1455.243,"body":"A resistor, when you're talking"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1451.493,"endTime":1455.243,"body":"about, you know, the component,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1455.663,"endTime":1460.163,"body":"uh, of resistor, it, it has"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1455.663,"endTime":1460.163,"body":"no impedance, it just has"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1460.163,"endTime":1463.013,"body":"a value of its resistance."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1463.071,"endTime":1468.012,"body":"Think of impedance as my"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1463.071,"endTime":1468.012,"body":"college professor always"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1468.012,"endTime":1472.092,"body":"told us to think of impedance"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1468.012,"endTime":1472.092,"body":"as imaginary resistance,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1472.302,"endTime":1474.522,"body":"which did not help at all."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1474.852,"endTime":1477.492,"body":"No, it doesn't because"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1474.852,"endTime":1477.492,"body":"my professor said the exact"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1477.492,"endTime":1479.892,"body":"same things and I still don't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1477.492,"endTime":1479.892,"body":"understand it to this day."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1480.432,"endTime":1480.882,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1480.94,"endTime":1487.359,"body":"So impedance is the resistance"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1480.94,"endTime":1487.359,"body":"of a copper trace that changes."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1488.829,"endTime":1490.509,"body":"As the frequency changes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1490.719,"endTime":1491.209,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1491.679,"endTime":1491.709,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1491.783,"endTime":1493.943,"body":"You can change the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1491.783,"endTime":1493.943,"body":"frequency of a signal through"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1494.003,"endTime":1497.423,"body":"a regular resistor and the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1494.003,"endTime":1497.423,"body":"resistance stays the same."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1497.603,"endTime":1497.783,"body":"That's."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1498.833,"endTime":1501.023,"body":"But when you're"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1498.833,"endTime":1501.023,"body":"talking about copper traces"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1501.023,"endTime":1503.063,"body":"and you, you change the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1501.023,"endTime":1503.063,"body":"frequency through Copper"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1503.063,"endTime":1505.483,"body":"Trace it's impedance changes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1505.798,"endTime":1508.018,"body":"Okay, so when"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1505.798,"endTime":1508.018,"body":"you're trying to match 50"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1508.023,"endTime":1510.178,"body":"oms, you need to know the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1508.023,"endTime":1510.178,"body":"frequency going through that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1510.183,"endTime":1511.198,"body":"trace then, is that right?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1511.265,"endTime":1514.519,"body":"It always helps because"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1511.265,"endTime":1514.519,"body":"it will help with material"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1514.519,"endTime":1517.429,"body":"selection if our customer"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1514.519,"endTime":1517.429,"body":"doesn't know exactly what"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1517.434,"endTime":1518.779,"body":"kind of material they need."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1518.855,"endTime":1521.085,"body":"I just I was helping"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1518.855,"endTime":1521.085,"body":"a customer yesterday."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1521.09,"endTime":1526.309,"body":"He said, Hey, I have six"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1521.09,"endTime":1526.309,"body":"gigahertz signals and I"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1526.309,"endTime":1529.549,"body":"have a 50 ohm and a hundred"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1526.309,"endTime":1529.549,"body":"home differential pairs."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1529.549,"endTime":1532.909,"body":"On the top layer, they're"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1529.549,"endTime":1532.909,"body":"referencing layer two."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1532.976,"endTime":1534.973,"body":"I'd like to keep"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1532.976,"endTime":1534.973,"body":"the material cheap."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1535.093,"endTime":1537.693,"body":"Maybe some kind of"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1535.093,"endTime":1537.693,"body":"F R four maybe go."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1539.373,"endTime":1541.703,"body":"A little if you a little"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1539.373,"endTime":1541.703,"body":"above that if you have to."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1541.703,"endTime":1542.393,"body":"I said, Okay."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1542.393,"endTime":1545.093,"body":"So I got out my tools."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1545.813,"endTime":1548.753,"body":"I'm running with the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1545.813,"endTime":1548.753,"body":"Polar Field Calculator"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1548.753,"endTime":1550.493,"body":"and Polar Speed Stack."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1550.524,"endTime":1554.424,"body":"I pull up the data sheets"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1550.524,"endTime":1554.424,"body":"for those materials and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1554.544,"endTime":1557.515,"body":"when a customer tells me he"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1554.544,"endTime":1557.515,"body":"wants to, to keep it cheap I"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1557.515,"endTime":1560.455,"body":"typically start with f R four."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1560.705,"endTime":1562.005,"body":"I usually"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1560.705,"endTime":1562.005,"body":"run the other way."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1562.615,"endTime":1568.735,"body":"yeah, Well, because we"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1562.615,"endTime":1568.735,"body":"can get a, you know, we can go,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1568.885,"endTime":1572.801,"body":"when you start talking about RF"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1568.885,"endTime":1572.801,"body":"designs, you're gonna venture"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1572.831,"endTime":1577.001,"body":"into hydrocarbon, ceramic"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1572.831,"endTime":1577.001,"body":"materials, you know, and,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1577.001,"endTime":1580.091,"body":"and maybe, god forbid, ptfe."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1580.521,"endTime":1581.131,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1581.211,"endTime":1581.691,"body":". Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1581.981,"endTime":1586.361,"body":"So, you know, I'll"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1581.981,"endTime":1586.361,"body":"start with an F R four and."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1587.631,"endTime":1590.001,"body":"We'll just run some"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1587.631,"endTime":1590.001,"body":"calculations and go from there."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1590.001,"endTime":1595.401,"body":"And, and most of the time, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1590.001,"endTime":1595.401,"body":"know, like yesterday, going back"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1595.401,"endTime":1598.845,"body":"to the original question you"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1595.401,"endTime":1598.845,"body":"know, he needed a six gigahertz"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1598.85,"endTime":1601.835,"body":"signal to run on his board."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1601.835,"endTime":1605.727,"body":"You know, I looked at I don't"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1601.835,"endTime":1605.727,"body":"know if I can mention specific"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1605.732,"endTime":1607.455,"body":"brands, but I pulled up,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1608.035,"endTime":1608.435,"body":"up to you."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1608.435,"endTime":1609.595,"body":"I, we could care less"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1610.215,"endTime":1613.078,"body":"Well, I, I'm I'm always"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1610.215,"endTime":1613.078,"body":"a big fan of using the,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1613.078,"endTime":1616.142,"body":"the best tool for the job,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1613.078,"endTime":1616.142,"body":"but I use a lot of Isola"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1616.142,"endTime":1620.312,"body":"materials because they, they"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1616.142,"endTime":1620.312,"body":"just make good materials."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1620.372,"endTime":1622.322,"body":"I mean, how else can you say it?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1622.345,"endTime":1625.135,"body":"We, I would say,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1622.345,"endTime":1625.135,"body":"like when we've talked to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1625.165,"endTime":1627.415,"body":"various vendors and stuff,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1625.165,"endTime":1627.415,"body":"Isola comes up a lot."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1627.415,"endTime":1628.405,"body":"They're, they're big."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1628.765,"endTime":1632.264,"body":"And if listeners aren't aware,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1628.765,"endTime":1632.264,"body":"Isola makes for lack of a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1632.264,"endTime":1635.924,"body":"better term, bare PCB materials"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1632.264,"endTime":1635.924,"body":"that companies like NCAB and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1635.929,"endTime":1638.294,"body":"their factories will buy and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1635.929,"endTime":1638.294,"body":"then create products from."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1639.884,"endTime":1641.534,"body":"Yeah, that's right."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1642.044,"endTime":1645.977,"body":"And well generally I'll start"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1642.044,"endTime":1645.977,"body":"with, you know, one of their run"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1646.027,"endTime":1651.007,"body":"the mill FR4s s IIsola 370HR and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1646.027,"endTime":1651.007,"body":"I'll, I'll base it off of that."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1651.547,"endTime":1655.987,"body":"But the thing is, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1651.547,"endTime":1655.987,"body":"look at the data sheet and we"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1655.987,"endTime":1660.517,"body":"going from, you know, a hundred"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1655.987,"endTime":1660.517,"body":"megahertz all the way up to"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1660.727,"endTime":1665.31,"body":"10 gigahertz and so I chose"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1660.727,"endTime":1665.31,"body":"the 10 gigahertz material."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1666.03,"endTime":1669.783,"body":"So that will cover us all"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1666.03,"endTime":1669.783,"body":"the way up to 10 gigahertz."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1670.353,"endTime":1673.203,"body":"I calculate the impedances"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1670.353,"endTime":1673.203,"body":"for that material."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1673.284,"endTime":1677.474,"body":"For, in those specific traces,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1673.284,"endTime":1677.474,"body":"I give my customer a specific"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1677.479,"endTime":1681.624,"body":"stack up and they should be able"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1677.479,"endTime":1681.624,"body":"to take that stack up and put"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1681.629,"endTime":1683.394,"body":"it into their design and use."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1684.264,"endTime":1685.404,"body":"Oh, interesting."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1685.409,"endTime":1690.864,"body":"So, so then that, I guess that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1685.409,"endTime":1690.864,"body":"means if you, if you have this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1690.869,"endTime":1695.711,"body":"requirement, you should probably"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1690.869,"endTime":1695.711,"body":"have this conversation fairly"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1695.711,"endTime":1698.651,"body":"early in the design process"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1695.711,"endTime":1698.651,"body":"because it may influence your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1698.651,"endTime":1701.951,"body":"layout and, and you know, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1698.651,"endTime":1701.951,"body":"don't want to, you don't like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1701.951,"endTime":1704.171,"body":"you don't wanna have your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1701.951,"endTime":1704.171,"body":"layout finished and then go"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1704.171,"endTime":1706.931,"body":"to NCAB and say, Hey, we need"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1704.171,"endTime":1706.931,"body":"controlled impedance here."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1706.931,"endTime":1708.761,"body":"Is this something that you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1706.931,"endTime":1708.761,"body":"should start the conversation"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1708.761,"endTime":1710.861,"body":"with a little bit earlier to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1708.761,"endTime":1710.861,"body":"know what your stack's gonna be?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1711.551,"endTime":1713.201,"body":"Yes, most definitely."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1713.236,"endTime":1716.808,"body":"I love to work with customers up"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1713.236,"endTime":1716.808,"body":"front during the design phase."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1716.808,"endTime":1719.218,"body":"It's, it's one of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1716.808,"endTime":1719.218,"body":"things to do because not"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1719.218,"endTime":1722.788,"body":"only do I get to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1719.218,"endTime":1722.788,"body":"I love to help people."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1722.848,"endTime":1726.718,"body":"So not only do I get to do that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1722.848,"endTime":1726.718,"body":"and, and help with their design,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1726.718,"endTime":1731.548,"body":"but it makes it so much easier"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1726.718,"endTime":1731.548,"body":"when it comes to manufacturing."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1731.788,"endTime":1734.728,"body":"You know, we get all that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1731.788,"endTime":1734.728,"body":"stuff worked out up front."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1734.758,"endTime":1735.688,"body":"We get the Gerber data."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1735.688,"endTime":1736.078,"body":"Good."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1736.16,"endTime":1739.1,"body":"You know, it gets to the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1736.16,"endTime":1739.1,"body":"quote phase and there are a"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1739.1,"endTime":1742.19,"body":"lot less questions that have"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1739.1,"endTime":1742.19,"body":"to be asked and answered."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1742.65,"endTime":1743.26,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1743.98,"endTime":1747.06,"body":"We, we love to be able to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1743.98,"endTime":1747.06,"body":"get into the conversation"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1747.06,"endTime":1749.73,"body":"with customers early on the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1747.06,"endTime":1749.73,"body":"design phase, if possible,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1749.91,"endTime":1752.972,"body":"to help with DFM design for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1749.91,"endTime":1752.972,"body":"manufacturability because it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1752.972,"endTime":1755.672,"body":"just makes everything go so"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1752.972,"endTime":1755.672,"body":"much smoother rather than trying"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1755.672,"endTime":1760.152,"body":"to, you know, like, Oh, I see"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1755.672,"endTime":1760.152,"body":"what you're trying to do here."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1760.152,"endTime":1761.674,"body":"We've already got"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1760.152,"endTime":1761.674,"body":"the board's fab."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1761.674,"endTime":1764.626,"body":"We'll, we'll trim this off a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1761.674,"endTime":1764.626,"body":"little bit and make it fit, and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1765.286,"endTime":1767.206,"body":"oh, I gotta build 150 of these."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1767.206,"endTime":1770.416,"body":"And then, and then inevitably"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1767.206,"endTime":1770.416,"body":"they, they go and place their"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1770.416,"endTime":1772.936,"body":"second order for 1500 without"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1770.416,"endTime":1772.936,"body":"making any of the changes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1772.936,"endTime":1774.016,"body":"You're like, Oh, no, I,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1774.711,"endTime":1775.381,"body":"Oh yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1777.646,"endTime":1779.506,"body":"So, yeah, it's nice"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1777.646,"endTime":1779.506,"body":"to get those conversations"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1779.506,"endTime":1780.466,"body":"started nice and early."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1780.781,"endTime":1781.111,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1781.111,"endTime":1782.761,"body":"Yeah, it definitely helps."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1782.886,"endTime":1784.166,"body":"And you know, that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1782.886,"endTime":1784.166,"body":"stuff happens."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1784.821,"endTime":1787.671,"body":"I didn't realize that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1784.821,"endTime":1787.671,"body":"it was valuable to have the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1787.671,"endTime":1790.251,"body":"conversation about controlled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1787.671,"endTime":1790.251,"body":"impedance early on in the design"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1790.251,"endTime":1794.031,"body":"phase, because so often, well,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1790.251,"endTime":1794.031,"body":"I mean, so often when, when I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1794.031,"endTime":1798.121,"body":"getting involved, usually  the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1794.031,"endTime":1798.121,"body":"design is more or less done"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1798.391,"endTime":1801.989,"body":"and they say, Hey you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1798.391,"endTime":1801.989,"body":"here's my Gerber data, here's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1801.989,"endTime":1803.369,"body":"my fab drawings and everything."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1803.458,"endTime":1806.578,"body":"Oh, and here's the information"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1803.458,"endTime":1806.578,"body":"about my controlled impedance."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1806.608,"endTime":1809.368,"body":"And that's the first time"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1806.608,"endTime":1809.368,"body":"that our fab is hearing about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1809.368,"endTime":1810.41,"body":"this controlled impedance."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1810.461,"endTime":1812.711,"body":"Is that u, does that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1810.461,"endTime":1812.711,"body":"usually work out okay?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1812.711,"endTime":1814.661,"body":"Like if the design engineer"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1812.711,"endTime":1814.661,"body":"is familiar with what they're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1814.661,"endTime":1817.811,"body":"doing, or, or is it sometimes"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1814.661,"endTime":1817.811,"body":"a little bit painful and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1817.811,"endTime":1821.351,"body":"you guys have to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1817.811,"endTime":1821.351,"body":"make it work, so to speak?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1822.131,"endTime":1824.321,"body":"It goes, it, I've"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1822.131,"endTime":1824.321,"body":"seen it go both ways."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1824.34,"endTime":1826.777,"body":"You know, let's go talk about"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1824.34,"endTime":1826.777,"body":"the design engineer that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1826.782,"endTime":1827.696,"body":"knows what they're doing."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1827.711,"endTime":1831.622,"body":"I've, I've met many men and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1827.711,"endTime":1831.622,"body":"women out there that design"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1831.627,"endTime":1834.262,"body":"controlled impedances and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1831.627,"endTime":1834.262,"body":"they don't need my help."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1834.592,"endTime":1836.422,"body":"And that's, that's great."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1836.422,"endTime":1837.202,"body":"That's okay."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1837.202,"endTime":1838.211,"body":"That's the goal, right?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1838.28,"endTime":1842.203,"body":"But then there are some, like"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1838.28,"endTime":1842.203,"body":"I spoke about before that do"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1842.203,"endTime":1843.598,"body":"need a little bit more help."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1843.598,"endTime":1846.226,"body":"And most of them are"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1843.598,"endTime":1846.226,"body":"just college graduates."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1846.406,"endTime":1847.567,"body":"They're just starting out."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1847.567,"endTime":1848.353,"body":"And I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1848.373,"endTime":1850.048,"body":"think that's most of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1848.373,"endTime":1850.048,"body":"our listeners, to be honest"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1850.048,"endTime":1853.288,"body":"with you, Ryan , I think"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1850.048,"endTime":1853.288,"body":"it's mostly junior engineers"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1853.293,"endTime":1854.878,"body":"who are trying to get up"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1853.293,"endTime":1854.878,"body":"to speed on these things."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1855.553,"endTime":1857.713,"body":"Those are my"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1855.553,"endTime":1857.713,"body":"favorite engineers to help."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1857.774,"endTime":1859.934,"body":"And we'll talk a little"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1857.774,"endTime":1859.934,"body":"bit more about that later,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1860.729,"endTime":1861.029,"body":"Sure,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1861.164,"endTime":1863.294,"body":"but they're"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1861.164,"endTime":1863.294,"body":"always, they're always"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1863.384,"endTime":1865.145,"body":"open to suggestion."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1865.145,"endTime":1869.288,"body":"I, I guess a nice way to put"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1865.145,"endTime":1869.288,"body":"it is they haven't been jaded"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1869.663,"endTime":1870.143,"body":"Jaded."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1870.188,"endTime":1873.848,"body":"by certain aspects"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1870.188,"endTime":1873.848,"body":"of this industry yet."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1874.253,"endTime":1874.463,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1874.463,"endTime":1874.823,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1874.887,"endTime":1878.864,"body":"So yeah, it's always best"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1874.887,"endTime":1878.864,"body":"if you have any circuit board"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1878.869,"endTime":1883.075,"body":"questions to get in contact with"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1878.869,"endTime":1883.075,"body":"us early in the design phase."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1883.465,"endTime":1887.356,"body":"As far as FAEs go, like me"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1883.465,"endTime":1887.356,"body":"we have several on my team."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1887.356,"endTime":1888.466,"body":"That's what we're here for."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1888.538,"endTime":1892.728,"body":"It's, it's my daily goal to"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1888.538,"endTime":1892.728,"body":"get in front of those engineers"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1892.733,"endTime":1894.268,"body":"during the design phase."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1894.318,"endTime":1895.704,"body":"That's all my job is."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1897.219,"endTime":1897.849,"body":"That's beautiful."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1897.849,"endTime":1902.052,"body":"So I will say then for, for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1897.849,"endTime":1902.052,"body":"Worthington, if you're you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1902.057,"endTime":1904.824,"body":"know, working on a design that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1902.057,"endTime":1904.824,"body":"has controlled impedance by"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1904.824,"endTime":1906.204,"body":"all means get in touch with us."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1906.204,"endTime":1908.274,"body":"We'll, we'll, we'll"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1906.204,"endTime":1908.274,"body":"give you the connections"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1908.274,"endTime":1909.864,"body":"directly to our suppliers."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1909.964,"endTime":1912.667,"body":"Usually it's probably gonna"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1909.964,"endTime":1912.667,"body":"be ncaa And you can just"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1912.667,"endTime":1913.687,"body":"have those conversations."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1913.687,"endTime":1915.637,"body":"Like we we're not"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1913.687,"endTime":1915.637,"body":"gonna middleman at all."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1915.937,"endTime":1918.841,"body":"I would say for Melissa's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1915.937,"endTime":1918.841,"body":"group, she's got it even better."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1918.841,"endTime":1922.083,"body":"She's got in-house cam engineers"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1918.841,"endTime":1922.083,"body":"and design engineers that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1922.083,"endTime":1923.193,"body":"work directly for CircuitHub."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1923.493,"endTime":1925.424,"body":"So, you can have a direct"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1923.493,"endTime":1925.424,"body":"connection with those guys,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1925.429,"endTime":1927.434,"body":"whereas I gotta pawn you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1925.429,"endTime":1927.434,"body":"off to guys like Ryan."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1927.464,"endTime":1930.12,"body":"I can't  I can't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1927.464,"endTime":1930.12,"body":"help you directly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1930.12,"endTime":1933.887,"body":"But so I will say now when"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1930.12,"endTime":1933.887,"body":"it comes to, like, you, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1933.892,"endTime":1936.543,"body":"were talking earlier about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1933.892,"endTime":1936.543,"body":"the various I want, I want to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1936.548,"endTime":1937.953,"body":"get more back to specifics."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1937.953,"endTime":1939.48,"body":"The various resistance values."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1940.45,"endTime":1942.7,"body":"Should I call it a resistance"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1940.45,"endTime":1942.7,"body":"value or should I call it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1942.7,"endTime":1944.53,"body":"an impeded, I should call"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1942.7,"endTime":1944.53,"body":"it an impedance value."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1944.755,"endTime":1945.235,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1945.4,"endTime":1947.26,"body":"keep hearing ohms"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1945.4,"endTime":1947.26,"body":"and it, my head keeps"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1947.265,"endTime":1948.1,"body":"going to resistance."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1948.775,"endTime":1949.105,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1949.165,"endTime":1949.495,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1949.585,"endTime":1951.625,"body":"It, it's it took me a while too."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1951.645,"endTime":1954.135,"body":"First thing I had to learn"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1951.645,"endTime":1954.135,"body":"how to do was spell 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the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1967.424,"endTime":1970.964,"body":"basics and we stayed on"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1967.424,"endTime":1970.964,"body":"it for years and years."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1971.019,"endTime":1973.949,"body":"It, it wasn't something"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1971.019,"endTime":1973.949,"body":"that we just did one class"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1973.949,"endTime":1977.159,"body":"on and he, he let me go"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1973.949,"endTime":1977.159,"body":"because controlled impedance"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1977.164,"endTime":1978.659,"body":"traces are that important."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1978.664,"endTime":1979.605,"body":"They have to work."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1979.644,"endTime":1982.764,"body":"And you're using,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1979.644,"endTime":1982.764,"body":"it sounds like probably"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1982.884,"endTime":1985.374,"body":"pretty fancy software to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1982.884,"endTime":1985.374,"body":"do these calculations."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1985.374,"endTime":1987.42,"body":"I don't think it's something"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1985.374,"endTime":1987.42,"body":"you can download for free."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1987.42,"endTime":1990.313,"body":"I'm sure it's licensed"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1987.42,"endTime":1990.313,"body":"and, and expensive."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1990.318,"endTime":1990.623,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1990.838,"endTime":1994.798,"body":"yes, it both, it's, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1990.838,"endTime":1994.798,"body":"using the, the polar speed stack"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":1994.828,"endTime":1997.648,"body":"and the polar field 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and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2016.915,"endTime":2023.275,"body":"you needs, and, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2016.915,"endTime":2023.275,"body":"same day I can have a stackup,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2023.345,"endTime":2027.525,"body":"a a at least a preliminary"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2023.345,"endTime":2027.525,"body":"stackup in your inbox."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2027.615,"endTime":2028.105,"body":"Nice."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2028.525,"endTime":2031.545,"body":"Whereas, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2028.525,"endTime":2031.545,"body":"if, if you go to a factory"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2031.545,"endTime":2034.607,"body":"direct you're gonna, you're"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2031.545,"endTime":2034.607,"body":"gonna wait for their time."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2034.997,"endTime":2039.227,"body":"And if you're going 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evaluate"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2053.949,"endTime":2056.169,"body":"all these things, to come up"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2053.949,"endTime":2056.169,"body":"with all these calculations."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2056.169,"endTime":2058.269,"body":"There, there's probably"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2056.169,"endTime":2058.269,"body":"been a tremendous amount of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2058.269,"endTime":2060.879,"body":"work that's gone into you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2058.269,"endTime":2060.879,"body":"being able to plug in some"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2060.879,"endTime":2062.079,"body":"numbers and get an output."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2062.694,"endTime":2063.534,"body":"most certainly."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2063.534,"endTime":2066.204,"body":"I've met with the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2063.534,"endTime":2066.204,"body":"people at Polar."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2066.519,"endTime":2066.879,"body":"Oh, cool."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2067.734,"endTime":2071.124,"body":"and I mean, if you"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2067.734,"endTime":2071.124,"body":"look at the controlled"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2071.129,"endTime":2074.312,"body":"impedance specification,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2071.129,"endTime":2074.312,"body":"it gives you the formulas,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2074.792,"endTime":2077.162,"body":"these ungodly formulas."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2077.252,"endTime":2081.478,"body":"So the, the good people"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2077.252,"endTime":2081.478,"body":"at Polar have they have"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2081.928,"endTime":2084.668,"body":"scientists, they have"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2081.928,"endTime":2084.668,"body":"engineers and that understand"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2084.668,"endTime":2088.058,"body":"those 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Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2136.967,"endTime":2142.504,"body":"We we, we publish on our website"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2136.967,"endTime":2142.504,"body":"kind of the standard run of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2142.744,"endTime":2146.624,"body":"the mill bread and butter stack"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2142.744,"endTime":2146.624,"body":"ups, and a lot of our customers"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2146.629,"endTime":2151.35,"body":"use those stack ups as a, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2146.629,"endTime":2151.35,"body":"know, I wanna get by with the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2151.35,"endTime":2154.23,"body":"cheapest material possible,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2151.35,"endTime":2154.23,"body":"so I wanna stick with the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2154.23,"endTime":2156.87,"body":"standard stack up that these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2154.23,"endTime":2156.87,"body":"guys are churning out every"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2156.87,"endTime":2158.22,"body":"single day in their factory."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2158.67,"endTime":2162.99,"body":"And I, I believe some of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2158.67,"endTime":2162.99,"body":"our customers are somehow"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2162.99,"endTime":2165.6,"body":"doing their own calculations"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2162.99,"endTime":2165.6,"body":"for controlled impedance."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2165.6,"endTime":2168.24,"body":"Do you see that much, or"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2165.6,"endTime":2168.24,"body":"is that kind of a rarity?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2168.24,"endTime":2170.13,"body":"Do you, do you guys"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2168.24,"endTime":2170.13,"body":"normally end up doing that?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2170.97,"endTime":2171.72,"body":"I do see it."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2171.823,"endTime":2175.723,"body":"You know, I, I hear, I can't"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2171.823,"endTime":2175.723,"body":"talk intelligently about it,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2175.723,"endTime":2179.142,"body":"but I hear about the Saturn"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2175.723,"endTime":2179.142,"body":"PCB calculator and some other"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2179.142,"endTime":2180.792,"body":"free online calculators."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2181.212,"endTime":2186.344,"body":"And you know, just last week"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2181.212,"endTime":2186.344,"body":"I had an engineer that he"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2186.349,"endTime":2190.274,"body":"did his own work and just"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2186.349,"endTime":2190.274,"body":"wanted me to verify his work"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2190.279,"endTime":2191.504,"body":"with a different 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fab."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2225.455,"endTime":2227.535,"body":"How, how is the fab now?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2228.335,"endTime":2231.665,"body":"Like controlling the quality,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2228.335,"endTime":2231.665,"body":"verifying that that's,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2231.725,"endTime":2233.137,"body":"that's gonna come out right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2233.137,"endTime":2237.267,"body":"Because I know that we get a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2233.137,"endTime":2237.267,"body":"lot of times our suppliers will"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2237.267,"endTime":2241.527,"body":"put like an impedance, forgive"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2237.267,"endTime":2241.527,"body":"me if I'm using the wrong"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2241.527,"endTime":2245.277,"body":"terminology, but like we call it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2241.527,"endTime":2245.277,"body":"an impedance coupon, they'll put"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2245.307,"endTime":2247.919,"body":"on the breakaway rails for us."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2247.919,"endTime":2250.323,"body":"So like, we have these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2247.919,"endTime":2250.323,"body":"breakaway rails so that we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2250.323,"endTime":2253.143,"body":"can, we can automate the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2250.323,"endTime":2253.143,"body":"assembly process and solder"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2253.143,"endTime":2255.813,"body":"everything together and that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2253.143,"endTime":2255.813,"body":"usually gets thrown away."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2256.143,"endTime":2258.813,"body":"Well, I, I believe the fabs"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2256.143,"endTime":2258.813,"body":"find that as convenient"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2258.818,"endTime":2260.678,"body":"location to put a 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there."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2280.238,"endTime":2280.478,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2280.478,"endTime":2282.968,"body":"The impedance coupon"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2280.478,"endTime":2282.968,"body":"is exactly that."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2282.973,"endTime":2287.401,"body":"It's for testing to ensure"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2282.973,"endTime":2287.401,"body":"that the impedance traces"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2287.521,"endTime":2289.021,"body":"were manufactured correctly."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2289.381,"endTime":2292.697,"body":"And one of the common tests"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2289.381,"endTime":2292.697,"body":"is time domain reflectometry."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2292.744,"endTime":2295.975,"body":"It's it's an extra cost,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2292.744,"endTime":2295.975,"body":"an extra process that your"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2295.975,"endTime":2297.385,"body":"manufacturer will have."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2297.467,"endTime":2301.951,"body":"But they, yeah, after, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2297.467,"endTime":2301.951,"body":"know, somewhere between final"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2301.951,"endTime":2306.358,"body":"inspection and shipping, they"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2301.951,"endTime":2306.358,"body":"will connect those impedance"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2306.358,"endTime":2311.349,"body":"coupons to that machine and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2306.358,"endTime":2311.349,"body":"just verify that the impedance"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2311.349,"endTime":2312.849,"body":"traces on the board work."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2313.309,"endTime":2316.399,"body":"So they, they connect"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2313.309,"endTime":2316.399,"body":"these coupons, I assume"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2316.399,"endTime":2319.879,"body":"they're connecting the coupons"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2316.399,"endTime":2319.879,"body":"to this reflector machine."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2319.909,"endTime":2321.109,"body":"I'm gonna call it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2319.909,"endTime":2321.109,"body":"reflective machine."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2321.919,"endTime":2324.589,"body":"Yeah, we'll, we'll just"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2321.919,"endTime":2324.589,"body":"call it a, a TDR test for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2324.799,"endTime":2325.459,"body":"TDR test."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2325.459,"endTime":2325.879,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2326.119,"endTime":2330.179,"body":"So, so if, if you have"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2326.119,"endTime":2330.179,"body":"to have your impedance traces"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2330.179,"endTime":2332.458,"body":"verified ask for a TDR test."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2332.47,"endTime":2338.26,"body":"But the, the TDR coupons"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2332.47,"endTime":2338.26,"body":"are designed during the,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2339.0,"endTime":2340.26,"body":"Let's go back a little bit."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2340.395,"endTime":2341.115,"body":"Sure, please,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2341.14,"endTime":2343.919,"body":"go back after everything's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2341.14,"endTime":2343.919,"body":"done, you, you have your"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2343.919,"endTime":2345.569,"body":"final design stack up."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2345.689,"endTime":2347.069,"body":"Impedance traces are all good."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2347.339,"endTime":2349.067,"body":"You send everything"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2347.339,"endTime":2349.067,"body":"to the factory."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2349.067,"endTime":2351.661,"body":"The first thing the factory's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2349.067,"endTime":2351.661,"body":"gonna do is they're gonna"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2351.661,"endTime":2354.091,"body":"pre engineer that board."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2354.241,"endTime":2357.991,"body":"So they're gonna have an"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2354.241,"endTime":2357.991,"body":"engineer go through the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2358.531,"endTime":2362.011,"body":"specifications that came"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2358.531,"endTime":2362.011,"body":"with it, the Gerber data,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2362.221,"endTime":2365.371,"body":"and they're gonna make sure"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2362.221,"endTime":2365.371,"body":"everything meets specifications."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2365.4,"endTime":2368.207,"body":"One of the final things"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2365.4,"endTime":2368.207,"body":"that we will do is pull"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2368.207,"endTime":2369.905,"body":"out that stack up check."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2370.685,"endTime":2372.035,"body":"All of the traces on it."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2372.035,"endTime":2375.515,"body":"If there's a impedance trace"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2372.035,"endTime":2375.515,"body":"on the stack up, then we"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2375.515,"endTime":2378.575,"body":"wanna go find it on the Gerber"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2375.515,"endTime":2378.575,"body":"data verify that's there."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2378.622,"endTime":2380.512,"body":"You'd be surprised how"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2378.622,"endTime":2380.512,"body":"many times it's not there."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2381.877,"endTime":2382.347,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2382.415,"endTime":2383.795,"body":"That's, that's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2382.415,"endTime":2383.795,"body":"a different story."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2383.795,"endTime":2385.235,"body":"We'll, we'll maybe"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2383.795,"endTime":2385.235,"body":"we'll talk a little"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2385.25,"endTime":2387.44,"body":"What, What do you mean"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2385.25,"endTime":2387.44,"body":"the traces itself aren't there?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2387.44,"endTime":2389.6,"body":"Or you're, you're saying"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2387.44,"endTime":2389.6,"body":"the specification for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2389.6,"endTime":2391.16,"body":"the, for the traces"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2391.205,"endTime":2395.401,"body":"Well, most likely what"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2391.205,"endTime":2395.401,"body":"has happened is an engineer has"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2395.401,"endTime":2399.001,"body":"copied and pasted, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2395.401,"endTime":2399.001,"body":"specifications from one drawing"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2399.001,"endTime":2403.591,"body":"to the other, didn't catch the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2399.001,"endTime":2403.591,"body":"impedance stuff that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2403.596,"endTime":2406.081,"body":"need to be on the new board,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2403.596,"endTime":2406.081,"body":"and they just left it there."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2406.086,"endTime":2407.176,"body":"yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2407.646,"endTime":2408.136,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2408.661,"endTime":2409.221,"body":"So, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2410.041,"endTime":2412.651,"body":"What, what we'll do is,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2410.041,"endTime":2412.651,"body":"we'll, we'll make sure"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2412.651,"endTime":2413.836,"body":"the traces are there."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2413.866,"endTime":2417.106,"body":"And then we'll verify that,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2413.866,"endTime":2417.106,"body":"you know, the, the wits and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2417.106,"endTime":2419.926,"body":"the spaces, if you know if"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2417.106,"endTime":2419.926,"body":"it's a differential pair,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2420.196,"endTime":2422.732,"body":"do they have the proper"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2420.196,"endTime":2422.732,"body":"spaces between traces?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2422.732,"endTime":2425.299,"body":"We'll make sure the trace"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2422.732,"endTime":2425.299,"body":"widths are you know, if"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2425.299,"endTime":2427.399,"body":"they're supposed to be"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2425.299,"endTime":2427.399,"body":"five mils, then we'll make"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2427.404,"endTime":2428.569,"body":"sure they're five mils."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2428.634,"endTime":2432.692,"body":"Another thing we'll do is check"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2428.634,"endTime":2432.692,"body":"the the planes to see, because"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2432.692,"endTime":2435.062,"body":"impedance traces, we haven't"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2432.692,"endTime":2435.062,"body":"talked about this yet, impedance"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2435.067,"endTime":2436.742,"body":"traces have to have a reference."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2436.801,"endTime":2440.011,"body":"So they're gonna reference"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2436.801,"endTime":2440.011,"body":"either one or more planes."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2440.108,"endTime":2442.334,"body":"And we'll make sure that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2440.108,"endTime":2442.334,"body":"those planes are where"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2442.334,"endTime":2444.054,"body":"they're supposed to"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2442.334,"endTime":2444.054,"body":"be in the Gerber data."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2444.054,"endTime":2448.351,"body":"Actually I did some work for an"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2444.054,"endTime":2448.351,"body":"engineer once designed a stack"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2448.351,"endTime":2454.501,"body":"up for him the way he wanted it,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2448.351,"endTime":2454.501,"body":"and when he gave us his design"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2454.506,"endTime":2456.901,"body":"back, he left a plane out."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2458.356,"endTime":2460.677,"body":"From where it was supposed"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2458.356,"endTime":2460.677,"body":"to be for referencing the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2460.682,"endTime":2465.436,"body":"impedances, and God forbid"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2460.682,"endTime":2465.436,"body":"this ever happens, but it does."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2466.396,"endTime":2470.296,"body":"Nobody caught it from,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2466.396,"endTime":2470.296,"body":"from him all the way"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2470.296,"endTime":2473.146,"body":"out to final inspection."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2473.806,"endTime":2476.686,"body":"And he got the boards"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2473.806,"endTime":2476.686,"body":"back and they didn't work."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2476.866,"endTime":2480.856,"body":"And we went back to see what"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2476.866,"endTime":2480.856,"body":"was wrong and he, he called"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2480.856,"endTime":2482.206,"body":"me, he's like, I'm so sorry."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2482.206,"endTime":2484.636,"body":"I said, No, I'm so sorry."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2484.636,"endTime":2486.106,"body":"We should have caught this too."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2486.856,"endTime":2489.256,"body":"You know, things like"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2486.856,"endTime":2489.256,"body":"that happen sometimes."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2489.331,"endTime":2492.751,"body":"But we wanna make sure the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2489.331,"endTime":2492.751,"body":"planes are in the correct area."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2492.961,"endTime":2496.356,"body":"Then we're gonna go through"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2492.961,"endTime":2496.356,"body":"and you know, if we have a"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2496.356,"endTime":2499.956,"body":"stack up, we can just pull up"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2496.356,"endTime":2499.956,"body":"the field solver and input all"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2499.956,"endTime":2502.806,"body":"the values from the stack up."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2502.866,"endTime":2505.266,"body":"And everything works out."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2505.476,"endTime":2507.576,"body":"It goes on to the next process."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2509.261,"endTime":2509.751,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2510.576,"endTime":2512.856,"body":"begin, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2510.576,"endTime":2512.856,"body":"they pull the material"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2512.916,"endTime":2514.086,"body":"because of the stack up."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2514.086,"endTime":2515.946,"body":"They know what"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2514.086,"endTime":2515.946,"body":"material they need."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2516.276,"endTime":2519.456,"body":"They start cleaning it and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2516.276,"endTime":2519.456,"body":"start manufacturing the board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2520.161,"endTime":2520.461,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2521.871,"endTime":2523.101,"body":"And, and, and so."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2525.396,"endTime":2527.166,"body":"You, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2525.396,"endTime":2527.166,"body":"something earlier that I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2527.166,"endTime":2528.226,"body":"wanted to ask you about."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2528.267,"endTime":2530.397,"body":"You mentioned that, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2528.267,"endTime":2530.397,"body":"know, if, if it's defined as"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2530.397,"endTime":2534.327,"body":"five mil, you're gonna make"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2530.397,"endTime":2534.327,"body":"sure it's five mil, but you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2534.327,"endTime":2536.847,"body":"guys have like etch factors"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2534.327,"endTime":2536.847,"body":"and these sorts of things."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2536.852,"endTime":2540.717,"body":"So you, so if, if, do you do,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2536.852,"endTime":2540.717,"body":"do you have to do anything"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2540.717,"endTime":2544.447,"body":"different for a trace that has"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2540.717,"endTime":2544.447,"body":"controlled impedance as you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2544.452,"endTime":2547.977,"body":"would etch factor on any other"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2544.452,"endTime":2547.977,"body":"trace when you're, when you're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2548.307,"endTime":2550.647,"body":"calculating how, how you're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2548.307,"endTime":2550.647,"body":"gonna fabricate these things?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2550.683,"endTime":2552.026,"body":"We look at"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2550.683,"endTime":2552.026,"body":"them differently."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2552.093,"endTime":2555.285,"body":"That's, there's two, there's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2552.093,"endTime":2555.285,"body":"different ways to approach that."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2555.975,"endTime":2556.365,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2556.395,"endTime":2557.985,"body":"Here's, here's what we want."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2558.04,"endTime":2559.93,"body":"Let's talk a little"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2558.04,"endTime":2559.93,"body":"bit about etch factor."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2560.38,"endTime":2561.11,"body":"You know, we're."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2561.67,"endTime":2565.57,"body":"Have these copper clads and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2561.67,"endTime":2565.57,"body":"foils, we're gonna print the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2565.57,"endTime":2568.42,"body":"circuit on and we're gonna send"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2565.57,"endTime":2568.42,"body":"it through a machine that's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2568.42,"endTime":2570.37,"body":"gonna etch the copper away."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2570.437,"endTime":2573.733,"body":"There's a certain rate that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2570.437,"endTime":2573.733,"body":"that material goes through"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2573.738,"endTime":2576.463,"body":"the machine, and that's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2573.738,"endTime":2576.463,"body":"based on the copper wave."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2576.539,"endTime":2581.359,"body":"And that's based on the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2576.539,"endTime":2581.359,"body":"space, on the electrical"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2581.364,"endTime":2582.389,"body":"space of the board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2582.884,"endTime":2583.204,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2585.449,"endTime":2588.209,"body":"it's one of those"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2585.449,"endTime":2588.209,"body":"things, how much etch factor,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2588.449,"endTime":2592.624,"body":"you know, are they gonna add"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2588.449,"endTime":2592.624,"body":"in pre-engineering to make"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2592.624,"endTime":2598.464,"body":"sure that when this copper"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2592.624,"endTime":2598.464,"body":"clad is etched, how much"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2598.464,"endTime":2600.834,"body":"etch factor are they gonna"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2598.464,"endTime":2600.834,"body":"need to make sure the traces"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2600.839,"endTime":2602.124,"body":"do come out at five mills?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2602.158,"endTime":2604.818,"body":"Well that's factory dependent."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2604.823,"endTime":2608.968,"body":"I've, I've seen factories add"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2604.823,"endTime":2608.968,"body":"a lot and a little, and it"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2608.968,"endTime":2614.323,"body":"depends on, How, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2608.968,"endTime":2614.323,"body":"if it's a production factory,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2614.323,"endTime":2615.103,"body":"they're gonna add a lot."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2615.103,"endTime":2617.443,"body":"Cuz they're just running through"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2615.103,"endTime":2617.443,"body":"those, running those boards"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2617.443,"endTime":2618.799,"body":"through there constantly."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2618.849,"endTime":2621.009,"body":"They're, they're not"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2618.849,"endTime":2621.009,"body":"babysitting the machines."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2621.014,"endTime":2622.375,"body":"They don't have time for that."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2622.435,"endTime":2624.682,"body":"But if, if you can stand there."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2625.372,"endTime":2626.092,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2626.092,"endTime":2628.822,"body":"The computer, it's all"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2626.092,"endTime":2628.822,"body":"computer controlled, but"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2629.092,"endTime":2630.982,"body":"in, in smaller factories."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2631.101,"endTime":2637.504,"body":"Mostly in the us you know, it is"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2631.101,"endTime":2637.504,"body":"not as advanced machinery say."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2637.504,"endTime":2642.25,"body":"And so they're gonna add edge"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2637.504,"endTime":2642.25,"body":"compensation in a different way."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2642.64,"endTime":2644.92,"body":"But let's, let's, let's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2642.64,"endTime":2644.92,"body":"start with a baseline."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2644.92,"endTime":2647.628,"body":"So let's say we have"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2644.92,"endTime":2647.628,"body":"you know, we're etching"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2647.628,"endTime":2649.428,"body":"through half ounce copper."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2649.515,"endTime":2650.475,"body":"We're going to."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2651.135,"endTime":2654.926,"body":"Be there at the machine,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2651.135,"endTime":2654.926,"body":"everything is flowing smoothly."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2655.136,"endTime":2657.776,"body":"We're probably gonna add"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2655.136,"endTime":2657.776,"body":"a, maybe about a half a"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2657.776,"endTime":2660.506,"body":"mill of edge compensation"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2657.776,"endTime":2660.506,"body":"to those traces."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2660.543,"endTime":2664.233,"body":"So when they, the,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2660.543,"endTime":2664.233,"body":"everything's gonna be beefed"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2664.233,"endTime":2667.243,"body":"up by a half a mill before"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2664.233,"endTime":2667.243,"body":"it goes into the machine."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2667.256,"endTime":2671.323,"body":"When it comes outta the etcher,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2667.256,"endTime":2671.323,"body":"it's gonna be within the 20%"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2671.323,"endTime":2673.495,"body":"cutoff that the IPC allows for."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2674.03,"endTime":2674.245,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2674.307,"endTime":2678.147,"body":"So the more etch factor,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2674.307,"endTime":2678.147,"body":"the more etch compensation"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2678.147,"endTime":2681.883,"body":"that we add, and the better"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2678.147,"endTime":2681.883,"body":"we etch it, the more accurate"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2681.883,"endTime":2683.173,"body":"the traces are gonna be."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2684.193,"endTime":2687.493,"body":"So, getting back to your"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2684.193,"endTime":2687.493,"body":"original question, now, let's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2687.493,"endTime":2690.973,"body":"compare a regular trace to a"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2687.493,"endTime":2690.973,"body":"controlled impedance trace."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2691.543,"endTime":2696.073,"body":"You know, the, the I P C allows"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2691.543,"endTime":2696.073,"body":"for a 20% tolerance there"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2696.073,"endTime":2697.954,"body":"when that trace comes out."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2697.961,"endTime":2699.071,"body":"After plating, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2699.251,"endTime":2699.741,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2700.691,"endTime":2704.411,"body":"so if it's a regular"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2700.691,"endTime":2704.411,"body":"trace, and let's say it's,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2705.101,"endTime":2709.331,"body":"let's go far, let's say it's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2705.101,"endTime":2709.331,"body":"21% under what it should be,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2710.021,"endTime":2713.981,"body":"Um, you still may"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2710.021,"endTime":2713.981,"body":"get the performance."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2713.981,"endTime":2716.501,"body":"You know, if you have low"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2713.981,"endTime":2716.501,"body":"voltage, you, you're still"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2716.531,"endTime":2720.431,"body":"maybe gonna get to the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2716.531,"endTime":2720.431,"body":"current performance you need."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2720.581,"endTime":2725.355,"body":"Or let's say it's, it's under"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2720.581,"endTime":2725.355,"body":"etched and it's 21% over is"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2725.355,"endTime":2728.859,"body":"still gonna perform most likely"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2725.355,"endTime":2728.859,"body":"the way it needs to perform."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2729.519,"endTime":2733.487,"body":"But an impedance trace"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2729.519,"endTime":2733.487,"body":"most likely won't."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2733.487,"endTime":2733.752,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2734.392,"endTime":2736.892,"body":"if, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2734.392,"endTime":2736.892,"body":"you talk about."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2736.97,"endTime":2742.203,"body":"A 50 m impedance and most"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2736.97,"endTime":2742.203,"body":"impedance tolerances are 10%."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2742.688,"endTime":2743.178,"body":"Plus"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2743.223,"endTime":2746.808,"body":"can only go, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2743.223,"endTime":2746.808,"body":"you can, you only got 50,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2746.808,"endTime":2752.593,"body":"55 ohms on the top end and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2746.808,"endTime":2752.593,"body":"what, 45 oms on the bottom"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2752.868,"endTime":2753.478,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2753.547,"endTime":2756.767,"body":"If, if you changed the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2753.547,"endTime":2756.767,"body":"trace with by a quarter of"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2756.767,"endTime":2760.585,"body":"a mill you could certainly"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2756.767,"endTime":2760.585,"body":"not meet the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2760.585,"endTime":2763.825,"body":"the board would certainly"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2760.585,"endTime":2763.825,"body":"not meet the speced, the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2763.825,"endTime":2765.025,"body":"impedance specification."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2765.61,"endTime":2766.06,"body":"Oh, wow."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2767.965,"endTime":2770.035,"body":"you know, answering"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2767.965,"endTime":2770.035,"body":"questions like this"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2770.035,"endTime":2772.135,"body":"are subjective because"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2770.035,"endTime":2772.135,"body":"people wanna know, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2772.135,"endTime":2773.065,"body":"well what will it be?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2773.108,"endTime":2776.578,"body":"There's no better answer"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2773.108,"endTime":2776.578,"body":"than just getting into"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2776.583,"endTime":2778.658,"body":"the field solver and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2776.583,"endTime":2778.658,"body":"crunching the numbers,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2778.763,"endTime":2779.513,"body":"Yep, yep."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2779.533,"endTime":2782.828,"body":"And I can tell you, okay,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2779.533,"endTime":2782.828,"body":"what happens if we're gonna be"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2782.858,"endTime":2784.148,"body":"out this way and out that way?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2784.148,"endTime":2786.038,"body":"But that's really where."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2787.268,"endTime":2789.938,"body":"It really comes down to"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2787.268,"endTime":2789.938,"body":"the manufacturer there"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2790.298,"endTime":2793.628,"body":"and how much electrical"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2790.298,"endTime":2793.628,"body":"space is on the board."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2793.628,"endTime":2795.447,"body":"That's what's in the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2793.628,"endTime":2795.447,"body":"designer's control."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2795.506,"endTime":2799.016,"body":"I always say the more electrical"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2795.506,"endTime":2799.016,"body":"space we have to add full"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2799.016,"endTime":2800.606,"body":"edge compensation, the better."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2800.876,"endTime":2804.536,"body":"If we can add full edge"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2800.876,"endTime":2804.536,"body":"compensation, then the impedance"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2804.536,"endTime":2807.626,"body":"traces will come out beautifully"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2804.536,"endTime":2807.626,"body":"the way they're supposed to."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2808.226,"endTime":2811.376,"body":"But if this is one of those"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2808.226,"endTime":2811.376,"body":"beast boards, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2811.376,"endTime":2813.686,"body":"got blind vias buried vs."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2813.686,"endTime":2816.65,"body":"We have to add a whole lot"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2813.686,"endTime":2816.65,"body":"of extra copper plating"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2816.682,"endTime":2817.882,"body":"because of via fill."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2817.973,"endTime":2822.143,"body":"Then you know that extra copper"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2817.973,"endTime":2822.143,"body":"is something that we have to add"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2822.503,"endTime":2827.085,"body":"even more etch compensation to"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2822.503,"endTime":2827.085,"body":"to etch through to make sure the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2827.085,"endTime":2830.616,"body":"impedance traces are as close"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2827.085,"endTime":2830.616,"body":"to the targets as possible."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2831.561,"endTime":2833.211,"body":"this is the common"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2831.561,"endTime":2833.211,"body":"theme of the Pick Place"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2833.211,"endTime":2834.786,"body":"podcast is make it bigger."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2835.521,"endTime":2838.311,"body":"Don't , don't get fancy"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2835.521,"endTime":2838.311,"body":"with it, you know?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2839.031,"endTime":2839.391,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2839.513,"endTime":2841.643,"body":"You know, give us, give"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2839.513,"endTime":2841.643,"body":"us the room we need to get"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2841.643,"endTime":2842.903,"body":"the, to get the work done."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2842.938,"endTime":2844.81,"body":"But now, now that I have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2842.938,"endTime":2844.81,"body":"this fancy new equipment,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2844.815,"endTime":2846.19,"body":"I'm gonna start to tell"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2844.815,"endTime":2846.19,"body":"people the opposite."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2846.195,"endTime":2848.26,"body":"Make it as small as possible,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2846.195,"endTime":2848.26,"body":"because then I'm the only"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2848.26,"endTime":2848.95,"body":"one who can build it."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2848.954,"endTime":2849.646,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2850.246,"endTime":2851.656,"body":"Be careful what you wish for."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2851.656,"endTime":2851.936,"body":"Chris"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2852.016,"endTime":2853.006,"body":"exactly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2853.426,"endTime":2854.176,"body":"No, true."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2854.236,"endTime":2855.316,"body":"So true story."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2855.376,"endTime":2858.946,"body":"We, we have never in the history"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2855.376,"endTime":2858.946,"body":"of our company, not on purpose,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2858.946,"endTime":2860.986,"body":"it's not like we were avoiding"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2858.946,"endTime":2860.986,"body":"it, but we had never in the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2860.986,"endTime":2866.054,"body":"history of our company had a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2860.986,"endTime":2866.054,"body":"design come in with a Imperial"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2866.054,"endTime":2870.12,"body":"oh 1 0 0 5, which I believe is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2866.054,"endTime":2870.12,"body":"a metric metric 4 0 2 component,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2870.56,"endTime":2871.85,"body":"you know, capacitor, resistor."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2872.39,"endTime":2875.69,"body":"And literally like the week"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2872.39,"endTime":2875.69,"body":"after we installed these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2875.69,"endTime":2879.83,"body":"machines, we got a request"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2875.69,"endTime":2879.83,"body":"to, you know, a request for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2879.835,"endTime":2883.16,"body":"quote with a 1 0 5 s of like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2879.835,"endTime":2883.16,"body":"what are the chances that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2883.165,"endTime":2884.06,"body":"we get this new equipment?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2884.25,"endTime":2885.26,"body":"Buckle up"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2885.325,"endTime":2885.41,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2885.8,"endTime":2886.17,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2886.179,"endTime":2887.829,"body":"Anyway, so I."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2888.924,"endTime":2891.624,"body":"I think, I think I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2888.924,"endTime":2891.624,"body":"still a little fuzzy"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2891.654,"endTime":2898.374,"body":"here on understanding"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2891.654,"endTime":2898.374,"body":"why, how do I put this?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2898.421,"endTime":2902.315,"body":"Well let me, let me explain my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2898.421,"endTime":2902.315,"body":"view of it and then, and then"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2902.315,"endTime":2903.695,"body":"that might inform your answer."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2903.695,"endTime":2906.702,"body":"So, when, when we get these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2903.695,"endTime":2906.702,"body":"impedance coupons from our"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2906.702,"endTime":2910.572,"body":"fabricators, sometimes they come"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2906.702,"endTime":2910.572,"body":"as a totally separate thing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2910.782,"endTime":2913.792,"body":"It's like, it's like just"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2910.782,"endTime":2913.792,"body":"included in, along in,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2913.792,"endTime":2916.562,"body":"in the package along with"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2913.792,"endTime":2916.562,"body":"the PCBs, but sometimes"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2916.562,"endTime":2918.692,"body":"it is in that breakaway"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2916.562,"endTime":2918.692,"body":"rail, like I mentioned."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2919.322,"endTime":2920.832,"body":"Why, why do fabs."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2921.302,"endTime":2924.062,"body":"Do that, Do they, Is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2921.302,"endTime":2924.062,"body":"it because people are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2924.062,"endTime":2925.262,"body":"requesting these things?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2925.262,"endTime":2927.722,"body":"Is it because it's their way"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2925.262,"endTime":2927.722,"body":"of saying, Hey, look, here's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2927.722,"endTime":2929.922,"body":"the proof that we did it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2927.722,"endTime":2929.922,"body":"right each and every time."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2929.932,"endTime":2932.602,"body":"Is anybody doing anything"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2929.932,"endTime":2932.602,"body":"with these coupons?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2932.602,"endTime":2934.822,"body":"Like, I'm not doing anything."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2934.822,"endTime":2936.532,"body":"I'm just passing 'em"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2934.822,"endTime":2936.532,"body":"along to my customer."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2936.532,"endTime":2940.162,"body":"Are are your, are the end"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2936.532,"endTime":2940.162,"body":"users, not the end users of the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2940.167,"endTime":2943.732,"body":"boards, but the, the designers"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2940.167,"endTime":2943.732,"body":"of these boards, are they using"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2943.732,"endTime":2944.992,"body":"those coupons for anything?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2944.992,"endTime":2947.692,"body":"Or is this just like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2944.992,"endTime":2947.692,"body":"a good faith sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2947.692,"endTime":2948.592,"body":"thing, saying, Yep."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2948.597,"endTime":2950.632,"body":"See, proved it, we,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2948.597,"endTime":2950.632,"body":"we did it right."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2951.872,"endTime":2955.069,"body":"Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2951.872,"endTime":2955.069,"body":"it's both actually."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2955.122,"endTime":2957.952,"body":"You know, sometimes customers"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2955.122,"endTime":2957.952,"body":"do request impedance"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2957.957,"endTime":2959.392,"body":"coupons and that's fine."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2959.45,"endTime":2961.054,"body":"We just send them along."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2961.057,"endTime":2964.221,"body":"But in your case where"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2961.057,"endTime":2964.221,"body":"it's on the rail, right,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2964.581,"endTime":2964.971,"body":"Yeah"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2965.011,"endTime":2968.401,"body":"we don't wanna remove"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2965.011,"endTime":2968.401,"body":"that rail before assembly."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2968.406,"endTime":2971.924,"body":"So if the impedance coupons"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2968.406,"endTime":2971.924,"body":"are built into the rail"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2971.924,"endTime":2973.419,"body":"they're gonna go along for the."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2973.859,"endTime":2974.119,"body":"that's right."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2974.205,"endTime":2974.565,"body":"But"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2974.685,"endTime":2976.665,"body":"they'll maybe be"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2974.685,"endTime":2976.665,"body":"impacted by all the clamps"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2976.665,"endTime":2977.595,"body":"and heat and everything."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2977.595,"endTime":2978.285,"body":"I've put them through"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2979.005,"endTime":2979.755,"body":"most certainly."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2979.755,"endTime":2982.125,"body":"And then you can, then"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2979.755,"endTime":2982.125,"body":"you can test them again."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2982.125,"endTime":2984.135,"body":"If you have the equipment"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2982.125,"endTime":2984.135,"body":"and the knowledge, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2984.135,"endTime":2987.105,"body":"can, you know, you can"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":2984.135,"endTime":2987.105,"body":"test them after that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2987.465,"endTime":2987.885,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2987.945,"endTime":2990.705,"body":"So I wonder if maybe larger"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2987.945,"endTime":2990.705,"body":"shops that aren't doing such"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2990.794,"endTime":2993.164,"body":"low volume, maybe they're,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2990.794,"endTime":2993.164,"body":"maybe they are doing some"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2993.234,"endTime":2996.234,"body":"some testing on, on those"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2993.234,"endTime":2996.234,"body":"sorts of things that we do"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2996.234,"endTime":2998.994,"body":"some testing, but most of the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2996.234,"endTime":2998.994,"body":"testing that we do is mostly"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2998.994,"endTime":3000.284,"body":"kinda like functional testing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3000.704,"endTime":3003.644,"body":"So, you know, power it up"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3000.704,"endTime":3003.644,"body":"and does it connect to wifi"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3003.649,"endTime":3005.894,"body":"and does it get a cellular"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3003.649,"endTime":3005.894,"body":"signal, and that kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3005.894,"endTime":3008.714,"body":"You know, we're not, we're not"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3005.894,"endTime":3008.714,"body":"really putting them into the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3008.797,"endTime":3010.327,"body":"would you call it a TDR machine?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3010.567,"endTime":3010.777,"body":"Is that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3010.847,"endTime":3011.337,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3011.707,"endTime":3014.857,"body":"Time domain, reflectometry"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3011.707,"endTime":3014.857,"body":"tests and tdr."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3015.337,"endTime":3017.557,"body":"Most of the boards that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3015.337,"endTime":3017.557,"body":"I've seen that require"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3017.557,"endTime":3021.217,"body":"that test are your military"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3017.557,"endTime":3021.217,"body":"and aerospace type board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3021.367,"endTime":3021.757,"body":"sure."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3021.757,"endTime":3022.417,"body":"That makes sense."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3022.732,"endTime":3026.332,"body":"you know, because"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3022.732,"endTime":3026.332,"body":"they, that TDR test is just"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3026.337,"endTime":3029.179,"body":"one of a bazillion tests"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3026.337,"endTime":3029.179,"body":"that those boards need."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3029.227,"endTime":3032.977,"body":"You know, if, if your toaster"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3029.227,"endTime":3032.977,"body":"needs to connect to wifi or"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3033.417,"endTime":3037.217,"body":"usb it most likely it, it's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3033.417,"endTime":3037.217,"body":"not gonna need a TDR test."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3037.907,"endTime":3038.177,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3038.177,"endTime":3038.897,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3039.617,"endTime":3043.127,"body":"and, and another way it,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3039.617,"endTime":3043.127,"body":"you can do, you know, if you are"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3043.127,"endTime":3045.707,"body":"working with your manufacturer,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3043.127,"endTime":3045.707,"body":"you can say, Hey, can you send"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3045.707,"endTime":3047.603,"body":"me your impedance calculations?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3047.603,"endTime":3053.663,"body":"I wanna see, you know, the most,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3047.603,"endTime":3053.663,"body":"most fabs I know they're gonna"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3053.663,"endTime":3056.993,"body":"produce an in-house stack up"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3053.663,"endTime":3056.993,"body":"based on the customer stack up."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3056.993,"endTime":3059.633,"body":"And as part of that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3056.993,"endTime":3059.633,"body":"process, they're gonna"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3059.633,"endTime":3061.223,"body":"calculate the impedances."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3061.733,"endTime":3064.703,"body":"So it is, if you have a"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3061.733,"endTime":3064.703,"body":"relationship with them,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3064.708,"endTime":3067.043,"body":"you can call 'em up, say,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3064.708,"endTime":3067.043,"body":"Hey, can I have your, a"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3067.043,"endTime":3069.563,"body":"copy of your stack up in"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3067.043,"endTime":3069.563,"body":"the impedance calculations?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3069.923,"endTime":3075.245,"body":"And many times customers will do"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3069.923,"endTime":3075.245,"body":"that in lieu of the extra cost"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3075.595,"endTime":3077.525,"body":"associated with TDR testing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3078.185,"endTime":3078.675,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3079.115,"endTime":3079.445,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3079.565,"endTime":3080.315,"body":"Well that's good to know."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3082.82,"endTime":3084.56,"body":"Well, I'll tell you what,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3082.82,"endTime":3084.56,"body":"I think this is a good"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3084.56,"endTime":3089.75,"body":"place to, to ask if you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3084.56,"endTime":3089.75,"body":"have any specific tips or"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3089.75,"endTime":3092.33,"body":"recommendations for designers."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3092.75,"endTime":3096.08,"body":"If they know that their design"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3092.75,"endTime":3096.08,"body":"is gonna require controlled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3096.17,"endTime":3100.85,"body":"impedance, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3096.17,"endTime":3100.85,"body":"are the, Hey look, you gotta"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3100.85,"endTime":3103.58,"body":"make sure you do these two"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3100.85,"endTime":3103.58,"body":"or three things and your life"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3103.58,"endTime":3106.25,"body":"will be good if, if you're,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3103.58,"endTime":3106.25,"body":"if you're, if you're aware of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3106.25,"endTime":3109.162,"body":"this and you take the time to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3106.25,"endTime":3109.162,"body":"think about it everything will"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3109.162,"endTime":3110.692,"body":"go so much smoother for you."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3111.142,"endTime":3114.982,"body":"You know, I guess, I guess what"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3111.142,"endTime":3114.982,"body":"I'm getting at is like, what"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3114.982,"endTime":3117.682,"body":"are people assuming that they"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3114.982,"endTime":3117.682,"body":"shouldn't assume and, and what"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3117.687,"endTime":3121.16,"body":"information do you get that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3117.687,"endTime":3121.16,"body":"makes just everything go so"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3121.16,"endTime":3123.2,"body":"much smoother when you have a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3121.16,"endTime":3123.2,"body":"controlled impedance circuit"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3123.2,"endTime":3126.18,"body":"board, or excuse me, a circuit"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3123.2,"endTime":3126.18,"body":"board with controlled impedance."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3127.28,"endTime":3132.024,"body":"Oddly, I think the most"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3127.28,"endTime":3132.024,"body":"important thing to have in"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3132.264,"endTime":3136.404,"body":"the design is enough room for"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3132.264,"endTime":3136.404,"body":"complete etch compensation."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3136.459,"endTime":3140.797,"body":"You can have the best design"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3136.459,"endTime":3140.797,"body":"stack up in the world with the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3140.797,"endTime":3145.446,"body":"best design impedance traces,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3140.797,"endTime":3145.446,"body":"and if the fabricator can't"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3145.446,"endTime":3150.786,"body":"add the necessary amount of"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3145.446,"endTime":3150.786,"body":"etch compensation to etch those"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3150.786,"endTime":3153.889,"body":"traces to what they need to be,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3150.786,"endTime":3153.889,"body":"then none of it's gonna work."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3154.379,"endTime":3154.729,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3154.759,"endTime":3155.369,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3155.449,"endTime":3155.929,"body":". Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3156.444,"endTime":3158.299,"body":"you know, that begs"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3156.444,"endTime":3158.299,"body":"the question, well, how"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3158.304,"endTime":3160.699,"body":"much etch factor do we add?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3160.939,"endTime":3161.779,"body":"I was gonna ask"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3161.839,"endTime":3163.339,"body":"how much are we gonna add?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3163.362,"endTime":3166.559,"body":"It's, it's gonna be dependent"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3163.362,"endTime":3166.559,"body":"on different from one"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3166.559,"endTime":3167.879,"body":"manufacturer to the other."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3169.364,"endTime":3173.144,"body":"But that's, that's where"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3169.364,"endTime":3173.144,"body":"the engineers can work with"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3173.144,"endTime":3176.07,"body":"the designers and say, Okay"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3173.144,"endTime":3176.07,"body":"you know, like, well, let's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3176.07,"endTime":3177.57,"body":"just go for an example."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3177.575,"endTime":3178.89,"body":"An engineer comes to me."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3179.73,"endTime":3182.85,"body":"I'm gonna ask for the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3179.73,"endTime":3182.85,"body":"fabrication, drawing,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3182.85,"endTime":3183.66,"body":"and the Gerber data."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3183.69,"endTime":3186.87,"body":"I wanna look at the Gerber data,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3183.69,"endTime":3186.87,"body":"see how much space we have, What"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3186.87,"endTime":3189.78,"body":"other kind of technology does"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3186.87,"endTime":3189.78,"body":"a board require that's gonna"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3189.84,"endTime":3194.48,"body":"influence that manufacturing,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3189.84,"endTime":3194.48,"body":"You know, are we gonna, if we're"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3194.8,"endTime":3197.78,"body":"starting with half ounce copper,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3194.8,"endTime":3197.78,"body":"are we gonna etch through half"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3197.785,"endTime":3200.9,"body":"ounce copper or are we gonna"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3197.785,"endTime":3200.9,"body":"add a little bit more and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3200.9,"endTime":3202.1,"body":"then have to etch through it?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3202.62,"endTime":3203.11,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3203.72,"endTime":3207.316,"body":"so I think the number"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3203.72,"endTime":3207.316,"body":"one key thing is develop a"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3207.316,"endTime":3212.227,"body":"relationship with your board"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3207.316,"endTime":3212.227,"body":"supplier and ask those questions"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3212.767,"endTime":3214.837,"body":"upfront during the design phase."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3214.917,"endTime":3218.187,"body":"And, you know, at NCAB group,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3214.917,"endTime":3218.187,"body":"we're always happy to help."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3218.187,"endTime":3221.097,"body":"We, we have a staff of"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3218.187,"endTime":3221.097,"body":"engineers that do just that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3222.477,"endTime":3222.957,"body":"Brilliant."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3223.527,"endTime":3226.377,"body":"You, you know what, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3223.527,"endTime":3226.377,"body":"are mirroring everything."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3226.377,"endTime":3228.717,"body":"We always say, we always"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3226.377,"endTime":3228.717,"body":"say the same thing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3228.777,"endTime":3231.867,"body":"It's give us enough room"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3228.777,"endTime":3231.867,"body":"and have a conversation"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3232.347,"endTime":3232.767,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3232.887,"endTime":3233.187,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3233.187,"endTime":3233.817,"body":"That's it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3234.417,"endTime":3237.207,"body":"you know, And, and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3234.417,"endTime":3237.207,"body":"by having the conversation"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3237.207,"endTime":3239.937,"body":"and by sending screenshots"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3237.207,"endTime":3239.937,"body":"and dimensions and things"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3239.937,"endTime":3244.389,"body":"like that you, you, you just"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3239.937,"endTime":3244.389,"body":"save yourself so much stress"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3244.394,"endTime":3247.629,"body":"and frustration and time and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3244.394,"endTime":3247.629,"body":"effort by, by solving those"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3247.629,"endTime":3251.529,"body":"things early on and not running"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3247.629,"endTime":3251.529,"body":"into those issues later on."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3251.529,"endTime":3252.129,"body":"So yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3252.189,"endTime":3252.549,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3253.299,"endTime":3254.589,"body":"Excellent, excellent advice."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3254.666,"endTime":3258.146,"body":"Before we get into my favorite"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3254.666,"endTime":3258.146,"body":"part of the show, the pet"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3258.146,"endTime":3260.036,"body":"peeve of the week, is there"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3258.146,"endTime":3260.036,"body":"anything further you'd like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3260.296,"endTime":3262.616,"body":"to talk about when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3260.296,"endTime":3262.616,"body":"control impedance or anything"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3262.616,"endTime":3264.476,"body":"you wanna share that we didn't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3262.616,"endTime":3264.476,"body":"get a chance to touch on?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3264.514,"endTime":3266.567,"body":"You know, there,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3264.514,"endTime":3266.567,"body":"there are many other things"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3266.567,"endTime":3267.497,"body":"that we could talk about."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3267.502,"endTime":3271.144,"body":"We could probably have you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3267.502,"endTime":3271.144,"body":"another one hour conversation."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3271.924,"endTime":3272.554,"body":"I believe it."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3272.749,"endTime":3276.169,"body":"About, you know, how do"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3272.749,"endTime":3276.169,"body":"we change control impedance"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3276.169,"endTime":3280.129,"body":"traces and what influences them,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3276.169,"endTime":3280.129,"body":"You know, the dialectric and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3280.359,"endTime":3283.549,"body":"the stack ups, we didn't get"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3280.359,"endTime":3283.549,"body":"into any of the design portion."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3283.864,"endTime":3285.454,"body":"Well then we'll have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3283.864,"endTime":3285.454,"body":"to have a second episode,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3286.219,"endTime":3288.949,"body":"maybe we can do"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3286.219,"endTime":3288.949,"body":"another episode and just"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3288.954,"endTime":3292.776,"body":"focus on you know, we can go"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3288.954,"endTime":3292.776,"body":"into detail about what the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3293.256,"endTime":3296.406,"body":"engineers are gonna do when"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3293.256,"endTime":3296.406,"body":"it gets to the factory and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3296.411,"endTime":3299.321,"body":"how that's gonna influence"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3296.411,"endTime":3299.321,"body":"manufacturing the board."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3299.476,"endTime":3299.756,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3299.906,"endTime":3301.856,"body":"let's, let's, let's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3299.906,"endTime":3301.856,"body":"pencil that in then, Ryan."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3301.856,"endTime":3304.038,"body":"Let's let's make sure to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3301.856,"endTime":3304.038,"body":"get that scheduled and have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3304.038,"endTime":3306.345,"body":"you back and and talk about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3304.038,"endTime":3306.345,"body":"those specific things."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3306.345,"endTime":3306.795,"body":"That'd be great."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3306.8,"endTime":3309.469,"body":"Especially you know, now"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3306.8,"endTime":3309.469,"body":"we covered kind of the, now"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3309.474,"endTime":3311.509,"body":"that my friend knows what"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3309.474,"endTime":3311.509,"body":"controlled impedance is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3311.547,"endTime":3313.963,"body":"yeah , we can, we can get"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3311.547,"endTime":3313.963,"body":"more into the nitty gritty."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3313.963,"endTime":3314.923,"body":"I think that'd be great."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3314.976,"endTime":3317.868,"body":"Because we do try to keep"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3314.976,"endTime":3317.868,"body":"these episodes to a, at least"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3317.868,"endTime":3319.548,"body":"a somewhat reasonable length."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3319.548,"endTime":3321.708,"body":"We've, we've definitely gone"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3319.548,"endTime":3321.708,"body":"long on some of them, and this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3321.708,"endTime":3322.758,"body":"is one of our longer ones."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3322.763,"endTime":3325.213,"body":"But by all means, let's,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3322.763,"endTime":3325.213,"body":"let's make sure that happens."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3325.213,"endTime":3326.383,"body":"I think, I think it'll be great."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3326.383,"endTime":3329.863,"body":"Especially, I think what'll"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3326.383,"endTime":3329.863,"body":"likely happen is we'll release"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3329.863,"endTime":3333.073,"body":"this episode and then we'll"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3329.863,"endTime":3333.073,"body":"have follow up questions."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3333.073,"endTime":3335.173,"body":"We'll have listeners that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3333.073,"endTime":3335.173,"body":"write in and say, Hey, I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3335.178,"endTime":3336.643,"body":"wanna know about this and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3335.178,"endTime":3336.643,"body":"I wanna know about that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3336.703,"endTime":3338.833,"body":"And we can include those in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3336.703,"endTime":3338.833,"body":"our future conversations."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3338.833,"endTime":3342.433,"body":"So if you're listening to this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3338.833,"endTime":3342.433,"body":"episode and you, you didn't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3342.433,"endTime":3344.453,"body":"get your question answered"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3342.433,"endTime":3344.453,"body":"about controlled impedance"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3344.454,"endTime":3346.625,"body":"because my friend didn't ask"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3344.454,"endTime":3346.625,"body":"the right questions  by all"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3346.625,"endTime":3349.685,"body":"means right into us and let"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3346.625,"endTime":3349.685,"body":"us know and we'll try to cover"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3349.685,"endTime":3351.005,"body":"'em in the future episode."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3352.355,"endTime":3353.555,"body":"yeah, most certainly."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3353.64,"endTime":3356.94,"body":"I'm, I'm always here to try"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3353.64,"endTime":3356.94,"body":"to help and answer those"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3356.945,"endTime":3359.58,"body":"questions and if I, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3356.945,"endTime":3359.58,"body":"know, I don't always have"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3359.58,"endTime":3360.72,"body":"the answer, but I'll find it."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3360.88,"endTime":3361.44,"body":"Can't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3361.905,"endTime":3362.355,"body":"That's it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3362.655,"endTime":3362.985,"body":"That's it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3362.985,"endTime":3363.675,"body":"We will find it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3363.735,"endTime":3365.535,"body":"If the answer does"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3363.735,"endTime":3365.535,"body":"exist, we'll find it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3366.645,"endTime":3368.085,"body":"All right, Ryan, let's do it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3368.385,"endTime":3369.495,"body":"Let's do pet peeve for the week."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3369.525,"endTime":3369.735,"body":"What?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3369.765,"endTime":3372.075,"body":"What is your pet peeve that you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3369.765,"endTime":3372.075,"body":"would love to share with us?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3372.135,"endTime":3372.945,"body":"I'm excited for it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3372.945,"endTime":3373.545,"body":"Lay it on me."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3375.045,"endTime":3378.615,"body":"you know, my, I I"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3375.045,"endTime":3378.615,"body":"think my number one pet"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3378.62,"endTime":3382.402,"body":"peeve are, are you know, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3378.62,"endTime":3382.402,"body":"I'm trying to be tactful."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3382.492,"endTime":3386.422,"body":"I'm not very good at tact,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3382.492,"endTime":3386.422,"body":"but, you know, I've done this"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3386.422,"endTime":3389.762,"body":"for 11 years and I've, like"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3386.422,"endTime":3389.762,"body":"I said, worked with engineers"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3389.767,"endTime":3391.072,"body":"from all walks of life."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3391.612,"endTime":3397.552,"body":"And the engineers that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3391.612,"endTime":3397.552,"body":"need help are one thing."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3397.564,"endTime":3401.344,"body":"The engineers that don't need"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3397.564,"endTime":3401.344,"body":"help are another thing, but the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3401.344,"endTime":3403.534,"body":"engineers that just don't care."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3404.394,"endTime":3404.514,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3406.894,"endTime":3410.314,"body":"Those, they, they"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3406.894,"endTime":3410.314,"body":"still call me because"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3410.314,"endTime":3411.844,"body":"they have to work with me."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3412.234,"endTime":3414.694,"body":"But I can tell that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3412.234,"endTime":3414.694,"body":"you don't care."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3414.874,"endTime":3419.254,"body":"And I see it in your Gerber"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3414.874,"endTime":3419.254,"body":"data and on your fab drawings."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3420.574,"endTime":3422.194,"body":"You're not sneaking past me."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3422.464,"endTime":3424.714,"body":"I'm still going to, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3422.464,"endTime":3424.714,"body":"still gonna do my best to"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3424.714,"endTime":3425.914,"body":"help those engineers out."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3426.544,"endTime":3427.504,"body":"You know what's funny?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3427.984,"endTime":3430.474,"body":"I don't think it's ever"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3427.984,"endTime":3430.474,"body":"crossed my mind before that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3430.474,"endTime":3431.614,"body":"an engineer wouldn't care."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3432.724,"endTime":3432.844,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3432.934,"endTime":3436.714,"body":"But now that I think of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3432.934,"endTime":3436.714,"body":"it, when I look at some designs"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3437.494,"endTime":3442.464,"body":"and I think what this board"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3437.494,"endTime":3442.464,"body":"is 10 inches by 10 inches."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3442.954,"endTime":3445.054,"body":"Why do you have oh"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3442.954,"endTime":3445.054,"body":"2 0 1 s on here?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3446.644,"endTime":3447.994,"body":"It's cause you don't care."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3448.654,"endTime":3449.144,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3450.619,"endTime":3450.979,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3450.979,"endTime":3451.729,"body":"And you know what?"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3451.729,"endTime":3454.699,"body":"There are a lot of, in the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3451.729,"endTime":3454.699,"body":"electronics industry, there are"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3454.699,"endTime":3456.949,"body":"a lot of black boxes out there."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3457.159,"endTime":3460.609,"body":"So more power to"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3457.159,"endTime":3460.609,"body":"the black boxes."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3460.614,"endTime":3462.889,"body":"I love those that, that concept."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3462.889,"endTime":3466.741,"body":"But, you know, in my previous"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3462.889,"endTime":3466.741,"body":"life I was active duty for 10"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3466.746,"endTime":3472.021,"body":"years and it got to a point"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3466.746,"endTime":3472.021,"body":"where I was ready to go."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3472.021,"endTime":3473.611,"body":"It wasn't for me anymore."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3473.701,"endTime":3474.091,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3474.701,"endTime":3475.311,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3475.491,"endTime":3478.471,"body":"I understand engineering"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3475.491,"endTime":3478.471,"body":"world is, is like that too."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3478.471,"endTime":3479.821,"body":"It's not for everybody."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3479.863,"endTime":3484.225,"body":"But you know, we're all here"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3479.863,"endTime":3484.225,"body":"to end this together, so let's"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3484.275,"endTime":3485.595,"body":"let's work well together."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3486.015,"endTime":3487.665,"body":"I, I don't understand."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3487.665,"endTime":3493.125,"body":"I think maybe, perhaps the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3487.665,"endTime":3493.125,"body":"reason I never expected an"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3493.125,"endTime":3500.265,"body":"engineer not to care is because"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3493.125,"endTime":3500.265,"body":"I can't even fathom not caring"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3500.265,"endTime":3501.795,"body":"about something I'm working on."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3502.215,"endTime":3502.815,"body":"Like I."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3502.815,"endTime":3503.425,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3503.88,"endTime":3506.22,"body":"Like, it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3503.88,"endTime":3506.22,"body":"it's a broken concept in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3506.47,"endTime":3509.25,"body":"my mind because I, if I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3506.47,"endTime":3509.25,"body":"gonna do something, I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3509.25,"endTime":3513.42,"body":"do it to the absolute best"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3509.25,"endTime":3513.42,"body":"possible ability that I can."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3513.69,"endTime":3515.73,"body":"I, you know, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3513.69,"endTime":3515.73,"body":"I don't care if it's like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3515.73,"endTime":3519.0,"body":"washing dishes or, or, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3515.73,"endTime":3519.0,"body":"know, helping a customer"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3519.0,"endTime":3519.9,"body":"with controlled impedance."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3519.96,"endTime":3522.18,"body":"I'm just gonna put all my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3519.96,"endTime":3522.18,"body":"effort into it to do it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3522.185,"endTime":3522.42,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3522.93,"endTime":3526.05,"body":"The concept of not caring"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3522.93,"endTime":3526.05,"body":"is so foreign to me, But"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3526.05,"endTime":3527.43,"body":"I, But you're right there."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3527.435,"endTime":3530.01,"body":"Prob that probably is a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3527.435,"endTime":3530.01,"body":"real thing that happens."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3530.55,"endTime":3531.01,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3531.01,"endTime":3534.245,"body":"You know, and, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3531.01,"endTime":3534.245,"body":"probably being a little"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3534.635,"endTime":3535.925,"body":"too abrasive there."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3536.003,"endTime":3540.023,"body":"I don't want the, your audience"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3536.003,"endTime":3540.023,"body":"to, to get the wrong idea that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3540.073,"endTime":3543.555,"body":"I work with a lot of engineers"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3540.073,"endTime":3543.555,"body":"that don't care because I"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3543.555,"endTime":3548.136,"body":"don't it, it's very rare,"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3543.555,"endTime":3548.136,"body":"but it, it's always there."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3548.926,"endTime":3551.676,"body":"I guarantee you,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3548.926,"endTime":3551.676,"body":"Ryan, I guarantee you."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3553.056,"endTime":3555.756,"body":"If somebody is listening"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3553.056,"endTime":3555.756,"body":"to the Pick Place podcast,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3555.816,"endTime":3557.016,"body":"it's because they care"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3557.781,"endTime":3558.351,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3558.666,"endTime":3560.076,"body":"I guarantee you."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3560.151,"endTime":3561.921,"body":"and that's the"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3560.151,"endTime":3561.921,"body":"kind of audience that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3561.926,"endTime":3563.781,"body":"I love to cater to."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3564.156,"endTime":3564.576,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3564.846,"endTime":3565.176,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3565.596,"endTime":3565.806,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3565.806,"endTime":3568.626,"body":"This is a, we, we gotta, we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3565.806,"endTime":3568.626,"body":"have a great group of listeners."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3568.716,"endTime":3571.502,"body":"I, I will say the feedback"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3568.716,"endTime":3571.502,"body":"we get from them is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3571.502,"endTime":3572.912,"body":"just, I love reading it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3572.912,"endTime":3574.262,"body":"I love talking to them."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3574.318,"endTime":3576.737,"body":"We've, we've actually earned"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3574.318,"endTime":3576.737,"body":"some customers through this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3576.737,"endTime":3579.407,"body":"thing, which is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3576.737,"endTime":3579.407,"body":"it's secretly, of course,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3579.407,"endTime":3581.867,"body":"we, we want this to be an"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3579.407,"endTime":3581.867,"body":"avenue where we, where we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3581.867,"endTime":3584.267,"body":"get business, of course,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3581.867,"endTime":3584.267,"body":"but we also wanted to create"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3584.267,"endTime":3585.407,"body":"something to teach people."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3585.428,"endTime":3587.528,"body":"But when we, when we do"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3585.428,"endTime":3587.528,"body":"have people that come to us"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3587.888,"endTime":3590.318,"body":"that, Hey, I listen to the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3587.888,"endTime":3590.318,"body":"podcast, say hi to Chris and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3590.318,"endTime":3591.498,"body":"Melissa, blah, blah, blah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3591.938,"endTime":3595.328,"body":"Inevitably those are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3591.938,"endTime":3595.328,"body":"the best designs."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3595.418,"endTime":3598.058,"body":"Like, inevitably they're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3595.418,"endTime":3598.058,"body":"the easiest things to build."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3598.268,"endTime":3600.548,"body":"They're, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3598.268,"endTime":3600.548,"body":"Oh, it's cuz they care."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3600.728,"endTime":3603.128,"body":"They're, they're listening and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3600.728,"endTime":3603.128,"body":"they want to do a great job."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3603.248,"endTime":3603.638,"body":"And that"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3603.743,"endTime":3606.542,"body":"listened and did"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3603.743,"endTime":3606.542,"body":"exactly what you said."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3606.812,"endTime":3609.702,"body":"And yeah, I love"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3606.812,"endTime":3609.702,"body":"helping those engineers."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3609.707,"endTime":3612.602,"body":"I'll, I'll work late to help"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3609.707,"endTime":3612.602,"body":"those engineers if I need to,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3612.872,"endTime":3613.742,"body":"Amen to that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3613.802,"endTime":3614.402,"body":"Amen to that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3614.402,"endTime":3617.422,"body":"I, there are specific"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3614.402,"endTime":3617.422,"body":"customers that I know have,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3617.482,"endTime":3619.972,"body":"have listened to the show"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3617.482,"endTime":3619.972,"body":"and have reached out to me."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3620.032,"endTime":3623.062,"body":"And I, I do, I I have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3620.032,"endTime":3623.062,"body":"a soft spot for 'em."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3623.062,"endTime":3624.322,"body":"I bend over backwards for 'em."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3624.322,"endTime":3626.362,"body":"I, I, I totally go outta my way."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3626.362,"endTime":3629.193,"body":"I work 'til mid, like midnight,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3626.362,"endTime":3629.193,"body":"like you say to help those"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3629.193,"endTime":3632.253,"body":"folks out because when, when"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3629.193,"endTime":3632.253,"body":"you feel their passion and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3632.253,"endTime":3634.953,"body":"you feel their energy, it,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3632.253,"endTime":3634.953,"body":"it's just infectious and you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3634.953,"endTime":3635.823,"body":"wanna give it right back."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3635.823,"endTime":3637.743,"body":"So, Amen to that, Ryan."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3637.813,"endTime":3639.233,"body":"I think that's a great"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3637.813,"endTime":3639.233,"body":"way to wrap it up."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3639.233,"endTime":3640.663,"body":"I really, really"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3639.233,"endTime":3640.663,"body":"appreciate your time."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3640.663,"endTime":3642.013,"body":"I'm looking forward"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3640.663,"endTime":3642.013,"body":"to having you back."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3642.013,"endTime":3643.993,"body":"I'm excited to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3642.013,"endTime":3643.993,"body":"cover future topics"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3644.092,"endTime":3647.476,"body":"Well, I appreciate you"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3644.092,"endTime":3647.476,"body":"giving me the time to come"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3647.476,"endTime":3650.462,"body":"on here and I appreciate"},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3647.476,"endTime":3650.462,"body":"the plug for NCAB Group."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3650.912,"endTime":3651.842,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3651.842,"endTime":3652.172,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3652.562,"endTime":3653.762,"body":"Gotta keep this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3652.562,"endTime":3653.762,"body":"whole thing rolling."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3655.187,"endTime":3657.707,"body":"If you're listening to this and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3655.187,"endTime":3657.707,"body":"you have further questions for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3657.707,"endTime":3660.894,"body":"Ryan I can, I can absolutely put"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3657.707,"endTime":3660.894,"body":"you in touch with him or, but"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3660.894,"endTime":3665.308,"body":"I would prefer if you wrote to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3660.894,"endTime":3665.308,"body":"us contact@pickplacepodcast.com"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3665.308,"endTime":3667.828,"body":"so that we can, we can roll it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3665.308,"endTime":3667.828,"body":"into a future episode as well."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3667.85,"endTime":3670.551,"body":"And perhaps you know, obviously"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3667.85,"endTime":3670.551,"body":"if you want to get in touch"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3670.551,"endTime":3672.621,"body":"directly with him, cuz you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3670.551,"endTime":3672.621,"body":"have a specific need for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3672.621,"endTime":3675.22,"body":"it, by all means, we'll,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3672.621,"endTime":3675.22,"body":"we'll make that connection."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3675.22,"endTime":3679.095,"body":"As always, you can reach"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3675.22,"endTime":3679.095,"body":"us at w Assembly and at"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3679.095,"endTime":3682.244,"body":"CircuitHub and and keep those"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3679.095,"endTime":3682.244,"body":"show suggestions rolling in."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3682.274,"endTime":3683.474,"body":"We love, we'd love to hear 'em."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3683.504,"endTime":3686.216,"body":"We really appreciate it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3683.504,"endTime":3686.216,"body":"and you've definitely been"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3686.216,"endTime":3687.866,"body":"telling your friends about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3686.216,"endTime":3687.866,"body":"it because our numbers are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3687.866,"endTime":3690.896,"body":"growing despite the fact that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3687.866,"endTime":3690.896,"body":"we, we have not published"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3690.896,"endTime":3692.006,"body":"an episode for six weeks."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3692.011,"endTime":3694.166,"body":"We still get big downloads,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3692.011,"endTime":3694.166,"body":"which is surprising."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3695.156,"endTime":3695.366,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3695.366,"endTime":3696.776,"body":"I've been expecting"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3695.366,"endTime":3696.776,"body":"them to go down, but"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3696.776,"endTime":3698.306,"body":"they actually haven't so"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3698.336,"endTime":3700.166,"body":"They haven't, which"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3698.336,"endTime":3700.166,"body":"is the strangest thing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3701.036,"endTime":3701.696,"body":". It's the bots."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3701.696,"endTime":3703.875,"body":"It's all the bots I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3701.696,"endTime":3703.875,"body":"hiring to to download."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3703.875,"endTime":3707.325,"body":"Yeah, that's gotta be"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3707.4,"endTime":3709.71,"body":"On that note,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3707.4,"endTime":3709.71,"body":"thanks for listening to"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3709.71,"endTime":3711.03,"body":"the Pick Place podcast."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3711.03,"endTime":3713.88,"body":"If you like what you heard,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3711.03,"endTime":3713.88,"body":"consider following us in"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3713.88,"endTime":3716.97,"body":"your favorite podcast app,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3713.88,"endTime":3716.97,"body":"and please leave us a review"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3716.975,"endTime":3719.73,"body":"on Apple Podcast or wherever"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3716.975,"endTime":3719.73,"body":"you get your podcast from."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3721.305,"endTime":3723.075,"body":"Thank you again,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3721.305,"endTime":3723.075,"body":"Ryan and Melissa."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3723.075,"endTime":3723.995,"body":"Thanks everybody."},{"speaker":"Ryan","startTime":3724.23,"endTime":3725.07,"body":"You're welcome."}]}