{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":9.015,"endTime":11.055,"body":"Welcome to the Pick"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":9.015,"endTime":11.055,"body":"Place podcast, a show where"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":11.055,"endTime":13.395,"body":"we talk about electronics,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":11.055,"endTime":13.395,"body":"manufacturing and everything"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":13.395,"endTime":16.425,"body":"related to getting a circuit"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":13.395,"endTime":16.425,"body":"board into the world."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":16.425,"endTime":17.775,"body":"This is Chris Denny"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":16.425,"endTime":17.775,"body":"with Worthington"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":17.985,"endTime":19.795,"body":"And this is Melissa"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":17.985,"endTime":19.795,"body":"Hough with CircuitHub."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":19.795,"endTime":21.495,"body":"Welcome back Melissa,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":21.705,"endTime":22.635,"body":"Welcome back Chris."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":23.505,"endTime":24.615,"body":"good to be back."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":24.645,"endTime":27.675,"body":"I know, I think we're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":24.645,"endTime":27.675,"body":"recording kind of late, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":27.675,"endTime":29.145,"body":"So we're probably"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":27.675,"endTime":29.145,"body":"gonna miss a week."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":29.205,"endTime":29.805,"body":"Is that right?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":30.195,"endTime":32.769,"body":"Depends on how"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":30.195,"endTime":32.769,"body":"quick my editing skills are."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":32.874,"endTime":33.364,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":34.464,"endTime":36.444,"body":", I, time is a blur for me."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":36.444,"endTime":38.874,"body":"It's an absolute blur"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":36.444,"endTime":38.874,"body":"for me, as we discussed"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":38.874,"endTime":39.864,"body":"in the previous episode,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":40.314,"endTime":43.333,"body":"hopefully, hopefully"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":40.314,"endTime":43.333,"body":"pending my productivity, we"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":43.523,"endTime":44.523,"body":"will be back on schedule."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":44.803,"endTime":45.433,"body":"oh, beautiful."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":45.673,"endTime":46.123,"body":"Wonderful."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":46.197,"endTime":47.457,"body":"Yeah, so good to be back."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":47.507,"endTime":49.697,"body":"When we talk about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":47.507,"endTime":49.697,"body":"recording something, it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":49.697,"endTime":53.057,"body":"makes me so anxious and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":49.697,"endTime":53.057,"body":"nervous cuz I know how much"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":53.057,"endTime":54.302,"body":"stuff I have to get done."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":54.822,"endTime":57.767,"body":"And I'm like, I, I don't have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":54.822,"endTime":57.767,"body":"time to record, but at the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":57.767,"endTime":60.137,"body":"same time, this is like one"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":57.767,"endTime":60.137,"body":"of my favorite things to do."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":60.227,"endTime":63.707,"body":"So  gotta gotta make"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":60.227,"endTime":63.707,"body":"time for it, right?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":63.757,"endTime":65.377,"body":"And it's the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":63.757,"endTime":65.377,"body":"listener's favorite thing"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":65.382,"endTime":66.917,"body":"to do is listen to you talk."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":66.979,"endTime":68.277,"body":"Well this week"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":66.979,"endTime":68.277,"body":"they're not gonna listen"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":68.282,"endTime":69.087,"body":"to me talk very much."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":69.087,"endTime":70.557,"body":"They're gonna listen to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":69.087,"endTime":70.557,"body":"our friend Dave talk."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":70.557,"endTime":71.787,"body":"We got Dave Wilcox back."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":71.787,"endTime":72.337,"body":"Welcome back Dave."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":73.257,"endTime":73.912,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":73.912,"endTime":75.696,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":73.912,"endTime":75.696,"body":"yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":75.846,"endTime":76.506,"body":"We'd love to have you."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":76.506,"endTime":79.152,"body":"Again for listeners, perhaps"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":76.506,"endTime":79.152,"body":"you're new to the show."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":79.17,"endTime":81.002,"body":"Go back and listen to some"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":79.17,"endTime":81.002,"body":"of the previous episodes"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":81.002,"endTime":83.702,"body":"where  we're marching our"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":81.002,"endTime":83.702,"body":"way through the PCB fab"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":83.702,"endTime":87.862,"body":"process with the world's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":83.702,"endTime":87.862,"body":"foremost expert in PCB Fab."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":88.102,"endTime":89.032,"body":"Is that correct, Dave?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":89.212,"endTime":91.882,"body":"Is that, is that, I think I read"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":89.212,"endTime":91.882,"body":"that on your Wikipedia page."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":92.004,"endTime":93.174,"body":"Someone put that in there."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":93.414,"endTime":95.364,"body":"That's not, not my,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":93.414,"endTime":95.364,"body":"that's not my writing."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":97.204,"endTime":99.084,"body":"Well, at least"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":97.204,"endTime":99.084,"body":"at CircuitHub, he is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":99.474,"endTime":100.584,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":99.474,"endTime":100.584,"body":"right, that's right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":100.644,"endTime":101.394,"body":"For sure."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":101.464,"endTime":106.204,"body":"Dave is our, he is our chief"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":101.464,"endTime":106.204,"body":"guru in charge of PCB Fab."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":106.264,"endTime":109.854,"body":"And yeah, I will say like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":106.264,"endTime":109.854,"body":"for listeners who, who may"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":109.854,"endTime":114.08,"body":"not be aware, most of the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":109.854,"endTime":114.08,"body":"time folks like myself who are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":114.08,"endTime":117.08,"body":"working on the assembly side"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":114.08,"endTime":117.08,"body":"don't really get a chance to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":117.08,"endTime":120.47,"body":"work very closely with people"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":117.08,"endTime":120.47,"body":"like Dave on the fab side."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":122.045,"endTime":125.761,"body":"Usually somebody like Dave will"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":122.045,"endTime":125.761,"body":"be working for our supplier"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":126.451,"endTime":128.521,"body":"and not directly with us."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":128.611,"endTime":132.481,"body":"And so you have kind of a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":128.611,"endTime":132.481,"body":"disconnect of their needs"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":132.481,"endTime":135.718,"body":"versus our needs and it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":132.481,"endTime":135.718,"body":"makes it complicated to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":135.718,"endTime":138.418,"body":"understand how my requests."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":140.713,"endTime":145.093,"body":"His life difficult and how his"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":140.713,"endTime":145.093,"body":"requests make my life difficult."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":145.093,"endTime":146.863,"body":"But then when the, you,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":145.093,"endTime":146.863,"body":"the two of you get to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":146.863,"endTime":148.78,"body":"work really tightly"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":146.863,"endTime":148.78,"body":"together I, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":148.78,"endTime":149.71,"body":"I think magic happens."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":149.74,"endTime":153.16,"body":"I, I've really, I've really,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":149.74,"endTime":153.16,"body":"really enjoyed, like, I love"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":153.16,"endTime":156.13,"body":"having Dave and bouncing"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":153.16,"endTime":156.13,"body":"ideas off of him and, and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":156.13,"endTime":158.35,"body":"trying to work through"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":156.13,"endTime":158.35,"body":"complicated processes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":158.355,"endTime":160.24,"body":"It's, especially with"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":158.355,"endTime":160.24,"body":"some of the stuff we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":160.24,"endTime":160.9,"body":"got coming up, right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":160.9,"endTime":163.48,"body":"Dave , we got some"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":160.9,"endTime":163.48,"body":"fun stuff coming up."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":163.932,"endTime":166.812,"body":"we got, we have some customers"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":163.932,"endTime":166.812,"body":"asking for some big, big,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":167.082,"endTime":171.042,"body":"big, big orders, like huge"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":167.082,"endTime":171.042,"body":"volumes that we have no Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":171.642,"endTime":172.482,"body":"Getting involved."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":175.062,"endTime":175.662,"body":"I say no."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":175.662,"endTime":175.842,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":175.847,"endTime":177.822,"body":"Getting involved in, we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":175.847,"endTime":177.822,"body":"just have to plan for it and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":177.822,"endTime":179.892,"body":"prepare for it, and I think"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":177.822,"endTime":179.892,"body":"we'll execute it just fine."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":179.892,"endTime":182.142,"body":"But it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":179.892,"endTime":182.142,"body":"interesting where."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":182.952,"endTime":188.142,"body":"Like minor annoyances on a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":182.952,"endTime":188.142,"body":"50 piece build, become major"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":188.142,"endTime":191.802,"body":"issues on a 10,000 piece"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":188.142,"endTime":191.802,"body":"build major, major issues."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":193.292,"endTime":197.042,"body":"so pcb fab and assembly have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":193.292,"endTime":197.042,"body":"to work really closely and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":197.047,"endTime":198.422,"body":"design, to be honest, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":198.692,"endTime":200.342,"body":"It design has a huge part of it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":200.372,"endTime":202.172,"body":"If, if there's something in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":200.372,"endTime":202.172,"body":"the design that makes life"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":202.172,"endTime":204.542,"body":"difficult, we gotta talk about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":202.172,"endTime":204.542,"body":"it and revise the design,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":205.082,"endTime":208.262,"body":"or we gotta spend lots of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":205.082,"endTime":208.262,"body":"money on a custom solution"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":208.262,"endTime":209.312,"body":"to make the design work."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":209.533,"endTime":209.773,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":209.773,"endTime":211.063,"body":"It's gotta make"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":209.773,"endTime":211.063,"body":"things repeatable."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":211.243,"endTime":212.383,"body":"If you make it repeatable."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":212.412,"endTime":213.8,"body":"PCB fab doesn't have a problem."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":213.89,"endTime":215.03,"body":"The new one have any problems."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":215.435,"endTime":215.795,"body":"That's it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":216.215,"endTime":216.485,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":216.875,"endTime":220.835,"body":"And I'll tell you what, had we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":216.875,"endTime":220.835,"body":"not gotten this new equipment,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":221.002,"endTime":224.782,"body":"there's no, we, we would've"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":221.002,"endTime":224.782,"body":"run kicking and screaming to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":224.782,"endTime":227.392,"body":"the hills when customers came"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":224.782,"endTime":227.392,"body":"to us with these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":227.48,"endTime":229.79,"body":"volumes because there's no way"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":227.48,"endTime":229.79,"body":"we could have pulled it off."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":229.79,"endTime":232.321,"body":"Like just the first past"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":229.79,"endTime":232.321,"body":"yields we're getting"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":232.326,"endTime":233.09,"body":"out of these machines."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":234.035,"endTime":236.105,"body":"I, I've never experienced"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":234.035,"endTime":236.105,"body":"anything like it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":236.135,"endTime":238.205,"body":"It's just absolutely incredible."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":239.015,"endTime":240.095,"body":"Very, very exciting."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":240.275,"endTime":243.327,"body":"And our poor rework girls,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":240.275,"endTime":243.327,"body":"you know, they're just,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":243.927,"endTime":246.747,"body":"I mean, they're having"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":243.927,"endTime":246.747,"body":"to, you know, having to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":246.747,"endTime":247.797,"body":"find stuff for 'em to do."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":247.827,"endTime":248.547,"body":"No, I'm just kidding."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":250.047,"endTime":251.037,"body":". There's plenty for them to do."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":251.967,"endTime":253.651,"body":"But yeah, it's been"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":251.967,"endTime":253.651,"body":"it's been great."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":253.651,"endTime":254.251,"body":"Very exciting."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":254.281,"endTime":254.731,"body":"Very exciting."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":254.731,"endTime":256.541,"body":"Well, let's get us up to speed."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":256.541,"endTime":257.591,"body":"Last time we had Dave."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":259.256,"endTime":261.386,"body":"We talked about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":259.256,"endTime":261.386,"body":"drilling and boy howdy."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":261.386,"endTime":262.466,"body":"Did we talk about drilling?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":262.466,"endTime":266.318,"body":"We went into depth on drilling"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":262.466,"endTime":266.318,"body":"cuz Dave might be the world's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":266.323,"endTime":267.428,"body":"foremost expert on drilling"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":267.878,"endTime":270.908,"body":"I can talk about"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":267.878,"endTime":270.908,"body":"drilling PCBs all day,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":272.888,"endTime":273.428,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":273.433,"endTime":276.218,"body":"So you're still exactly right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":276.308,"endTime":278.288,"body":"Oh, I mean, isn't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":276.308,"endTime":278.288,"body":"that the truth though?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":278.318,"endTime":281.228,"body":"Like, I could talk"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":278.318,"endTime":281.228,"body":"about the SMT process."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":281.828,"endTime":284.168,"body":"Like we could literally have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":281.828,"endTime":284.168,"body":"a show just about the SMT"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":284.168,"endTime":286.568,"body":"process and I could endlessly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":287.378,"endTime":290.828,"body":"I mean that Melissa,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":287.378,"endTime":290.828,"body":"here's a new podcast idea."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":291.128,"endTime":292.058,"body":"Sleep Stories."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":292.088,"endTime":294.848,"body":"Sleep stories with Chris"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":292.088,"endTime":294.848,"body":"Denny about the SMT process."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":294.848,"endTime":298.058,"body":"And all I do is like, with"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":294.848,"endTime":298.058,"body":"less enthusiasm, just speak"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":298.058,"endTime":299.198,"body":"about the SMT process."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":299.198,"endTime":301.238,"body":"And I think, I think"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":299.198,"endTime":301.238,"body":"we should do it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":301.568,"endTime":302.168,"body":"I think we should do it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":302.385,"endTime":304.785,"body":"yeah, I think people will"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":302.385,"endTime":304.785,"body":"appreciate, you know, better"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":304.785,"endTime":306.105,"body":"sleep with Chris and Melissa"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":307.935,"endTime":308.995,"body":"Especially her grandma."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":309.735,"endTime":310.705,"body":"especially"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":309.735,"endTime":310.705,"body":"my grandmotheer."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":310.807,"endTime":314.172,"body":"Alright, so, after drill"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":310.807,"endTime":314.172,"body":"we wanna get into kind of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":314.172,"endTime":318.042,"body":"like what is gonna happen"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":314.172,"endTime":318.042,"body":"next to our PCB and Mr."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":318.042,"endTime":321.912,"body":"Dave, what happens next to our"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":318.042,"endTime":321.912,"body":"PCB once it's been drilled out?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":321.972,"endTime":326.772,"body":"And, and what do they tidy"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":321.972,"endTime":326.772,"body":"up the boards from drilling?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":326.777,"endTime":328.799,"body":"Do they have to like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":326.777,"endTime":328.799,"body":"blow out any oh, what"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":328.804,"endTime":329.669,"body":"was the word you used?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":329.849,"endTime":332.301,"body":"What was the uh, swath?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":332.306,"endTime":332.921,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":333.196,"endTime":336.536,"body":"Swarf, let's just call"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":333.196,"endTime":336.536,"body":"it, let's just call it Deb"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":337.046,"endTime":337.616,"body":"Debris."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":337.616,"endTime":338.066,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":338.486,"endTime":338.816,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":339.326,"endTime":340.676,"body":"Like does this debris build up?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":340.676,"endTime":342.206,"body":"Is there like a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":340.676,"endTime":342.206,"body":"cleaning process?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":342.206,"endTime":344.366,"body":"The boards go through after"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":342.206,"endTime":344.366,"body":"they get drilled or anything."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":344.986,"endTime":346.976,"body":"it should, it should"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":344.986,"endTime":346.976,"body":"be taken out by the vacuum"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":346.976,"endTime":347.756,"body":"monitor drilling machine."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":347.786,"endTime":350.151,"body":"But the, the, but you still"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":347.786,"endTime":350.151,"body":"get some left in there."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":350.167,"endTime":351.787,"body":"You get little strands of fiber."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":352.672,"endTime":354.352,"body":"That will hang in"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":352.672,"endTime":354.352,"body":"the hole maybe."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":354.426,"endTime":357.756,"body":"Especially if, if your"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":354.426,"endTime":357.756,"body":"drills get blunt, they"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":357.756,"endTime":360.52,"body":"don't cut cuts cleanly"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":357.756,"endTime":360.52,"body":"that has to be cleaned out."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":360.61,"endTime":363.716,"body":"But the boards will go through a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":360.61,"endTime":363.716,"body":"cleaning process after drilling."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":364.316,"endTime":367.616,"body":"So, so make sure that there's"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":364.316,"endTime":367.616,"body":"no burrs they get brushed"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":368.306,"endTime":370.256,"body":"and they might have to go"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":368.306,"endTime":370.256,"body":"through a de-smear line."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":370.586,"endTime":373.796,"body":"So if there's an smearing"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":370.586,"endTime":373.796,"body":"of the resin in the."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":374.116,"endTime":375.406,"body":"A de- smear line."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":375.431,"endTime":375.761,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":375.761,"endTime":380.591,"body":"So if, if, if you melt"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":375.761,"endTime":380.591,"body":"plastic and you push it"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":380.591,"endTime":383.051,"body":"across your table, it will"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":380.591,"endTime":383.051,"body":"smear all over your table."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":383.456,"endTime":384.066,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":385.001,"endTime":387.881,"body":"Well, that happens"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":385.001,"endTime":387.881,"body":"in a hole if it gets too"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":387.881,"endTime":391.511,"body":"hot and the resin melts, it"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":387.881,"endTime":391.511,"body":"will smear across the copper"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":391.901,"endTime":393.251,"body":"interconnections on the inside."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":394.716,"endTime":396.986,"body":"Oh, so, but this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":394.716,"endTime":396.986,"body":"is a much later process."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":396.986,"endTime":398.546,"body":"This isn't immediately"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":396.986,"endTime":398.546,"body":"after drilling."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":398.607,"endTime":400.497,"body":"It will go from,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":398.607,"endTime":400.497,"body":"from from the drill shop"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":400.897,"endTime":401.667,"body":"straight to this process."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":401.667,"endTime":401.847,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":401.982,"endTime":402.612,"body":"Oh, it will?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":402.852,"endTime":403.212,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":403.372,"endTime":404.082,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":404.397,"endTime":407.378,"body":"Yeah, so, you'll"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":404.397,"endTime":407.378,"body":"have etch back as well, and"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":407.378,"endTime":409.993,"body":"etch back takes away some"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":407.378,"endTime":409.993,"body":"of, some of the substrate."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":410.143,"endTime":412.543,"body":"So the, the copper"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":410.143,"endTime":412.543,"body":"interconnections on inner"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":412.543,"endTime":416.743,"body":"layers will slightly protrude"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":412.543,"endTime":416.743,"body":"the edge of the hole, so"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":416.743,"endTime":418.903,"body":"you get a better connection"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":416.743,"endTime":418.903,"body":"when it's plated through"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":419.098,"endTime":419.818,"body":"etch back."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":419.938,"endTime":420.488,"body":"etch back"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":421.538,"endTime":422.408,"body":"it's called etch back"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":422.968,"endTime":423.428,"body":"hold on."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":423.498,"endTime":424.518,"body":"You've lost me, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":424.518,"endTime":425.338,"body":"So hang on a second."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":425.361,"endTime":427.971,"body":"The, the, let's, let's talk"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":425.361,"endTime":427.971,"body":"about the smearing first."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":428.211,"endTime":430.821,"body":"So you're, you're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":428.211,"endTime":430.821,"body":"talking about Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":430.821,"endTime":432.981,"body":"You, you can smear"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":430.821,"endTime":432.981,"body":"plastic on a table."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":432.981,"endTime":433.551,"body":"I get that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":433.556,"endTime":434.481,"body":"I, I understood that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":435.021,"endTime":436.761,"body":"But you don't have any"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":435.021,"endTime":436.761,"body":"plastic on your board when"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":436.761,"endTime":437.781,"body":"you're, when you're doing the."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":438.471,"endTime":440.792,"body":"but it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":438.471,"endTime":440.792,"body":"epoxy resin in glass,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":441.002,"endTime":443.342,"body":"so the, the epoxy melts"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":443.687,"endTime":445.607,"body":"right from the,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":443.687,"endTime":445.607,"body":"from the heat of the drill."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":445.652,"endTime":446.612,"body":"if it gets too hot."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":446.612,"endTime":446.762,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":447.587,"endTime":448.937,"body":"Oh, no kidding."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":449.102,"endTime":452.372,"body":"So to, to make sure"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":449.102,"endTime":452.372,"body":"you're getting a good connection"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":452.732,"endTime":455.972,"body":"for, for your placing through"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":452.732,"endTime":455.972,"body":"your hole to the inner layers."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":456.362,"endTime":461.012,"body":"You have to, you have to"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":456.362,"endTime":461.012,"body":"clear that, that that epoxy"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":461.282,"endTime":463.022,"body":"resin off the hole, off the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":463.067,"endTime":467.522,"body":"Okay, so, so if I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":463.067,"endTime":467.522,"body":"understand correctly, Eventually"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":467.522,"endTime":468.602,"body":"we're gonna get to plating."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":468.632,"endTime":472.442,"body":"And what happens in plating"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":468.632,"endTime":472.442,"body":"is that, that whatever"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":472.442,"endTime":475.892,"body":"magical soup that you put"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":472.442,"endTime":475.892,"body":"it into, it wants to adhere"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":475.892,"endTime":478.322,"body":"to the walls of that hole."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":478.322,"endTime":483.752,"body":"But if you have any epoxy resin"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":478.322,"endTime":483.752,"body":"smearing those holes, then"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":483.752,"endTime":485.102,"body":"it won't wanna adhere to it."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":485.237,"endTime":487.157,"body":"if it smeared"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":485.237,"endTime":487.157,"body":"over the copper,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":487.322,"endTime":487.812,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":488.627,"endTime":492.407,"body":"the, the copper"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":488.627,"endTime":492.407,"body":"plating will adhere to the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":492.53,"endTime":496.01,"body":"The smear, the which is"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":492.53,"endTime":496.01,"body":"insulation effectively."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":496.415,"endTime":496.745,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":497.3,"endTime":500.63,"body":"you won't connect to the,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":497.3,"endTime":500.63,"body":"to the copper plane or copper"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":500.635,"endTime":501.62,"body":"connection on the inside."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":502.085,"endTime":503.405,"body":"gotcha, gotcha."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":503.495,"endTime":503.945,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":504.185,"endTime":504.875,"body":"Fascinating."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":505.055,"endTime":506.135,"body":"Wow, that's fascinating."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":506.135,"endTime":509.691,"body":"Okay, so you, so, what is that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":506.135,"endTime":509.691,"body":"process called again, when it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":509.691,"endTime":512.331,"body":"cleaning the, it's, it's just"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":509.691,"endTime":512.331,"body":"a smear cleaning or something."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":512.331,"endTime":512.691,"body":"What, what'd"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":512.706,"endTime":516.002,"body":"just,  it's these de-smear"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":512.706,"endTime":516.002,"body":"it goes through a series of"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":516.002,"endTime":517.592,"body":"tanks and it's got potassium."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":519.047,"endTime":520.157,"body":"Ooh, now we're talking."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":520.652,"endTime":524.222,"body":"And that's a whole"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":520.652,"endTime":524.222,"body":"dirty, smelly process as"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":524.417,"endTime":526.307,"body":"Is 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all"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":540.985,"endTime":543.475,"body":"bubble up and dissolve?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":543.76,"endTime":544.93,"body":"Yeah, I'm, I swear."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":544.93,"endTime":547.48,"body":"Didn't they like, toss him into"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":544.93,"endTime":547.48,"body":"a vat of like chemicals or."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":547.735,"endTime":548.035,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":548.04,"endTime":552.225,"body":"That's probably sulfuric acid"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":548.04,"endTime":552.225,"body":"or the salt, but yeah, it's,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":552.23,"endTime":554.395,"body":"it's nothing like that . It's,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":554.515,"endTime":556.013,"body":"So . 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outside,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":579.152,"endTime":580.892,"body":"on the outside."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":580.892,"endTime":581.312,"body":"of that point."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":581.372,"endTime":586.802,"body":"So, yeah, so it basically,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":581.372,"endTime":586.802,"body":"it's cleaned in the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":586.802,"endTime":587.942,"body":"holes, outside the holes,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":588.467,"endTime":588.707,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":588.774,"endTime":591.424,"body":"Before it goes into"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":588.774,"endTime":591.424,"body":"there's, there's two ways."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":591.557,"endTime":594.527,"body":"You can put electroless copper"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":591.557,"endTime":594.527,"body":"in the hole or you can put"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":594.61,"endTime":596.5,"body":"you have that black hole and."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":597.31,"endTime":599.98,"body":"Dms E Direct metalization"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":600.88,"endTime":604.3,"body":"So electroless copper,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":600.88,"endTime":604.3,"body":"I, I feel like I'm more"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":604.3,"endTime":605.89,"body":"familiar with that term,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":604.3,"endTime":605.89,"body":"but I thought that was a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":605.89,"endTime":607.322,"body":"finishing a finishing term?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":607.322,"endTime":607.592,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":607.592,"endTime":608.012,"body":"Oh, okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":608.012,"endTime":608.972,"body":"What's electroless copper?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":609.512,"endTime":609.672,"body":"electric."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":609.672,"endTime":615.042,"body":"Copper is a two or three micron"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":609.672,"endTime":615.042,"body":"film of copper in the hole."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":615.092,"endTime":616.372,"body":"Which gives the."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":618.062,"endTime":621.032,"body":"Electro plated, copper,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":618.062,"endTime":621.032,"body":"something to adhere to"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":621.482,"endTime":627.732,"body":"but you can, that's been"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":621.482,"endTime":627.732,"body":"superseded by a DMSC"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":627.752,"endTime":628.082,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":628.832,"endTime":629.132,"body":"line."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":629.252,"endTime":630.362,"body":"the it, am I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":629.252,"endTime":630.362,"body":"hearing you right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":630.362,"endTime":631.742,"body":"D M S C."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":633.212,"endTime":633.932,"body":"Let me check."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":634.232,"endTime":635.162,"body":"Is it dmc?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":635.162,"endTime":635.852,"body":"I'm sure it is."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":636.872,"endTime":637.352,"body":"Direct"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":637.352,"endTime":637.772,"body":"Or it,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":638.467,"endTime":638.822,"body":"something."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":638.822,"endTime":639.242,"body":"Something."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":639.332,"endTime":640.952,"body":"yes, it's."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":641.487,"endTime":644.627,"body":"It's, it's dms e"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":641.487,"endTime":644.627,"body":"direct metalization."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":645.467,"endTime":646.967,"body":"Direct metalization"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":647.022,"endTime":648.092,"body":"Or black hol street."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":648.092,"endTime":649.562,"body":"But it, it's a, it's a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":649.727,"endTime":650.597,"body":"black hole."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":650.747,"endTime":651.857,"body":"They call it black hole."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":652.622,"endTime":653.282,"body":"Because,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":653.302,"endTime":653.747,"body":"I like it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":653.747,"endTime":654.737,"body":"Now this is all I want."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":654.737,"endTime":656.447,"body":"Now I just want the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":654.737,"endTime":656.447,"body":"black hole boards."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":656.762,"endTime":659.342,"body":"when you hold it up to"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":656.762,"endTime":659.342,"body":"the light, all you see is black."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":660.392,"endTime":661.652,"body":"The holes are black inside."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":662.057,"endTime":663.547,"body":"Really 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that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":678.754,"endTime":679.204,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":679.744,"endTime":679.954,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":680.424,"endTime":680.704,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":680.709,"endTime":684.032,"body":"So it's, it's just a It's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":680.709,"endTime":684.032,"body":"just a different for lack of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":684.032,"endTime":687.512,"body":"a better term, substrate in on"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":684.032,"endTime":687.512,"body":"the inside of the holes that the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":687.542,"endTime":690.752,"body":"later, the later process, the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":687.542,"endTime":690.752,"body":"plating process can stick to,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":690.882,"endTime":691.302,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":691.322,"endTime":691.592,"body":"saying?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":691.622,"endTime":691.802,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":691.802,"endTime":694.112,"body":"So you can either do"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":691.802,"endTime":694.112,"body":"electroless plating or you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":694.112,"endTime":695.522,"body":"can do direct metalization."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":695.614,"endTime":698.226,"body":"And, and if I understand"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":695.614,"endTime":698.226,"body":"correctly direct metalization"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":698.226,"endTime":700.926,"body":"is kind of the, that's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":698.226,"endTime":700.926,"body":"the new it process."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":701.166,"endTime":701.766,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":701.826,"endTime":705.816,"body":"It, it's conveyorized and"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":701.826,"endTime":705.816,"body":"it, it can take, it can"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":705.816,"endTime":709.236,"body":"take literally two minutes"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":705.816,"endTime":709.236,"body":"to, to run through this"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":709.236,"endTime":710.856,"body":"conveyorized piece of equipment."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":711.336,"endTime":711.966,"body":"Fascinating."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":712.44,"endTime":719.34,"body":"and the electric plate in"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":712.44,"endTime":719.34,"body":"line is 30 foot long with load"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":719.34,"endTime":721.63,"body":"of tanks, rinses, sulfuric acid."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":721.9,"endTime":722.37,"body":"Oh man."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":722.39,"endTime":722.66,"body":"So you're"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":722.84,"endTime":724.1,"body":"Palladium catalyst."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":724.16,"endTime":724.61,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":724.76,"endTime":725.21,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":725.54,"endTime":726.14,"body":"everything."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":726.53,"endTime":727.94,"body":"Fresh water probably."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":728.007,"endTime":730.765,"body":"How do, you don't have to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":728.007,"endTime":730.765,"body":"answer this if you don't know"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":730.765,"endTime":732.775,"body":"Dave, but I'm gonna put you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":730.765,"endTime":732.775,"body":"on the spot and we can edit"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":732.775,"endTime":736.195,"body":"this out, but how, how do"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":732.775,"endTime":736.195,"body":"things like this get invented?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":736.745,"endTime":739.645,"body":"Is there, like, is it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":736.745,"endTime":739.645,"body":"universities, are there"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":739.645,"endTime":742.045,"body":"businesses, like, is it foxcon?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":742.045,"endTime":743.635,"body":"Just like, we need a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":742.045,"endTime":743.635,"body":"better way to do this."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":743.635,"endTime":747.295,"body":"Like how, how, how does it go"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":743.635,"endTime":747.295,"body":"from this electroless plating"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":747.295,"endTime":748.795,"body":"process is so necessary?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":748.795,"endTime":750.595,"body":"There's no other way to do it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":748.795,"endTime":750.595,"body":"till somebody else is like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":750.595,"endTime":751.435,"body":"yeah, here's a better way,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":752.62,"endTime":754.99,"body":"A lot of these things"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":752.62,"endTime":754.99,"body":"happen by chance, someone's"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":754.99,"endTime":760.27,"body":"probably like, well, I've got"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":754.99,"endTime":760.27,"body":"this, this material coated in"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":760.27,"endTime":763.898,"body":"this polymer, and I've, I've"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":760.27,"endTime":763.898,"body":"managed to plate copper to it."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":764.288,"endTime":766.148,"body":"Well, maybe, maybe"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":764.288,"endTime":766.148,"body":"we could use that."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":766.208,"endTime":768.998,"body":"It just, just starts"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":766.208,"endTime":768.998,"body":"with a seed, doesn't it?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":768.998,"endTime":769.388,"body":"Sorry."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":769.493,"endTime":769.973,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":770.003,"endTime":771.443,"body":"Find a way to do it in a pcb."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":772.013,"endTime":772.553,"body":"The black hole."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":772.553,"endTime":774.743,"body":"Technology's been"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":772.553,"endTime":774.743,"body":"around 20 years."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":774.923,"endTime":775.403,"body":"Oh, it has?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":775.403,"endTime":775.793,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":775.883,"endTime":778.613,"body":"So like since the nineties"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":775.883,"endTime":778.613,"body":"or early two thousands."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":778.696,"endTime":779.296,"body":"Nineties."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":780.226,"endTime":780.545,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":780.561,"endTime":781.191,"body":"I hate to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":780.561,"endTime":781.191,"body":"break it to you."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":781.191,"endTime":783.081,"body":"It's 2022, so it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":781.191,"endTime":783.081,"body":"been over 20 years."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":783.081,"endTime":784.041,"body":"It's been around for Dave"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":784.746,"endTime":785.076,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":786.516,"endTime":788.526,"body":"So, so only just over 20 years."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":788.526,"endTime":790.106,"body":"If you go to 1999"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":790.202,"endTime":792.712,"body":"I know, but like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":790.202,"endTime":792.712,"body":"I, I think of probably"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":792.717,"endTime":795.082,"body":"like you, Dave, I think of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":792.717,"endTime":795.082,"body":"the nineties as like not"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":795.082,"endTime":796.252,"body":"really being that long ago."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":796.402,"endTime":799.252,"body":"Like if somebody said they had"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":796.402,"endTime":799.252,"body":"like a 1999 car, I'd be like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":799.282,"endTime":800.302,"body":"oh, okay, that's not too old."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":800.302,"endTime":800.992,"body":"Then I'm like, wait a second."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":800.992,"endTime":802.302,"body":"No, that's a 23 year old."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":803.167,"endTime":803.657,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":805.282,"endTime":807.202,"body":"That's just, I don't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":805.282,"endTime":807.202,"body":"know, that's how my brain works."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":807.922,"endTime":809.812,"body":"But yeah, so I I, so I get it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":809.812,"endTime":813.952,"body":"You, I think about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":809.812,"endTime":813.952,"body":"when you mention sometimes these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":813.952,"endTime":815.302,"body":"things can happen by accident."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":815.842,"endTime":818.272,"body":"I don't, I don't know if this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":815.842,"endTime":818.272,"body":"is apocryphal or if this is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":818.277,"endTime":820.882,"body":"true, but apparently that's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":818.277,"endTime":820.882,"body":"how penicillin was discovered."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":821.302,"endTime":823.342,"body":"It was kind of an accident,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":821.302,"endTime":823.342,"body":"like he just left a window"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":823.342,"endTime":825.412,"body":"open and then all of his"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":823.342,"endTime":825.412,"body":"bacteria was dead, and he was"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":825.412,"endTime":826.942,"body":"like, Hey, what happened here?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":827.347,"endTime":831.541,"body":"Well, it, it the, the,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":827.347,"endTime":831.541,"body":"the myth is he had some bread"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":831.541,"endTime":837.671,"body":"on the side and it, it, it grew"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":831.541,"endTime":837.671,"body":"spores and all this sort of"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":837.671,"endTime":839.151,"body":"stuff, so I, I don't know it."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":839.151,"endTime":839.431,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":839.551,"endTime":841.201,"body":"Like I say, I think"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":839.551,"endTime":841.201,"body":"it's apocryphal, but it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":841.201,"endTime":843.301,"body":"is, it is fascinating"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":841.201,"endTime":843.301,"body":"either way, how sometimes"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":843.301,"endTime":843.991,"body":"these things just happen."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":844.231,"endTime":846.911,"body":"Well, it's like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":844.231,"endTime":846.911,"body":"in our industry we have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":846.965,"endTime":848.825,"body":"okay, so you have double"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":846.965,"endTime":848.825,"body":"sided circuit boards."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":849.92,"endTime":852.83,"body":"I hate to break this back,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":849.92,"endTime":852.83,"body":"bring this back into assembly,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":852.83,"endTime":855.98,"body":"but inventions happen in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":852.83,"endTime":855.98,"body":"very interesting ways."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":855.98,"endTime":858.01,"body":"So in our industry"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":855.98,"endTime":858.01,"body":"we have double sided"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":858.01,"endTime":859.21,"body":"circuit boards, and."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":860.59,"endTime":862.99,"body":"To support the bottom side of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":860.59,"endTime":862.99,"body":"a double sided circuit board,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":863.26,"endTime":866.323,"body":"you need to have pins set up"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":863.26,"endTime":866.323,"body":"where they're not gonna make"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":866.323,"endTime":867.763,"body":"contact with any components."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":867.853,"endTime":869.983,"body":"Otherwise, you crush the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":867.853,"endTime":869.983,"body":"component under the force"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":869.983,"endTime":871.063,"body":"of the, of the process."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":871.063,"endTime":873.613,"body":"So like when you're stencil"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":871.063,"endTime":873.613,"body":"printing, you need to support"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":873.613,"endTime":876.253,"body":"the bottom of the PCB so"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":873.613,"endTime":876.253,"body":"that it stays nice and flat."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":876.253,"endTime":878.353,"body":"And when you come over with"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":876.253,"endTime":878.353,"body":"the stencil, you have a nice"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":878.353,"endTime":879.733,"body":"crisp, clean print over it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":880.183,"endTime":883.753,"body":"If you, if it was sagging, you'd"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":880.183,"endTime":883.753,"body":"have a giant mess on your hands."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":883.814,"endTime":886.424,"body":"They've come, they've, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":883.814,"endTime":886.424,"body":"know, people have invented"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":886.424,"endTime":891.343,"body":"these, these conforming like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":886.424,"endTime":891.343,"body":"sort of, ah, it's not, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":891.343,"endTime":893.653,"body":"not, it's not exactly like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":891.343,"endTime":893.653,"body":"this, but it's something like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":893.653,"endTime":894.943,"body":"a bed of nails basically."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":894.943,"endTime":895.213,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":895.213,"endTime":898.753,"body":"Like you have a conforming,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":895.213,"endTime":898.753,"body":"you have a nest of pins that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":898.758,"endTime":902.233,"body":"conform to the shape of the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":898.758,"endTime":902.233,"body":"bottom of the pcb and it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":902.233,"endTime":903.103,"body":"supports the bottom of it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":903.493,"endTime":905.713,"body":"Well, that's, that came"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":903.493,"endTime":905.713,"body":"out of somebody like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":905.713,"endTime":907.473,"body":"myself who was struggl."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":908.038,"endTime":910.648,"body":"With putting all these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":908.038,"endTime":910.648,"body":"pins inside his machine and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":910.648,"endTime":912.388,"body":"he said, there's gotta be"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":910.648,"endTime":912.388,"body":"a better way to do this."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":912.388,"endTime":913.378,"body":"And, and"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":913.498,"endTime":913.948,"body":"Spring."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":913.948,"endTime":914.878,"body":"Spring load pins."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":915.118,"endTime":915.958,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":915.958,"endTime":917.488,"body":"Spring loaded pins a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":915.958,"endTime":917.488,"body":"better way to do it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":917.818,"endTime":920.081,"body":"And it's just, it's cool"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":917.818,"endTime":920.081,"body":"how these, and now there's,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":920.201,"endTime":922.391,"body":"there's a whole, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":920.201,"endTime":922.391,"body":"there's like three, four"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":922.391,"endTime":923.621,"body":"competitors doing this now."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":923.651,"endTime":923.921,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":923.921,"endTime":926.358,"body":"And I met, I met"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":923.921,"endTime":926.358,"body":"the guy who was."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":927.213,"endTime":929.103,"body":"If he wasn't the one to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":927.213,"endTime":929.103,"body":"invent it, he was one of the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":929.103,"endTime":930.543,"body":"earliest ones to invent it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":930.813,"endTime":933.496,"body":"And and he was telling us his"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":930.813,"endTime":933.496,"body":"story about, it's, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":933.496,"endTime":936.796,"body":"really fascinating how these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":933.496,"endTime":936.796,"body":"tools develop and evolve from"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":936.796,"endTime":940.216,"body":"people trying to solve their"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":936.796,"endTime":940.216,"body":"own problem and, and having"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":940.221,"endTime":942.526,"body":"an enormous impact on the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":940.221,"endTime":942.526,"body":"world because the amount of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":942.526,"endTime":945.796,"body":"time it saves us not having"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":942.526,"endTime":945.796,"body":"to set up all these pins, the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":945.796,"endTime":948.406,"body":"amount of chemicals it saves"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":945.796,"endTime":948.406,"body":"Dave not having to run through"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":948.406,"endTime":949.836,"body":"an electroless plating line."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":950.196,"endTime":952.296,"body":"It's, it is super cool"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":950.196,"endTime":952.296,"body":"how these things advance."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":952.296,"endTime":954.426,"body":"It's one of the things I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":952.296,"endTime":954.426,"body":"love about manufacturing is."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":955.611,"endTime":959.301,"body":"The, the improvements to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":955.611,"endTime":959.301,"body":"efficiency is just so fun to see"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":959.836,"endTime":963.616,"body":"Yeah, but you still need"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":959.836,"endTime":963.616,"body":"electroless copper sometimes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":963.831,"endTime":964.371,"body":"sometimes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":964.371,"endTime":964.641,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":965.511,"endTime":967.731,"body":", so what, what would the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":965.511,"endTime":967.731,"body":"application be where you, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":967.736,"endTime":970.411,"body":"it, it becomes, you can't really"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":967.736,"endTime":970.411,"body":"do the direct metalization."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":970.421,"endTime":972.511,"body":"If you're doing"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":970.421,"endTime":972.511,"body":"small hole microvias"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":972.911,"endTime":974.801,"body":"you might, you might"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":972.911,"endTime":974.801,"body":"want to use it."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":975.581,"endTime":977.171,"body":"Um, it's just more robust"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":977.696,"endTime":979.046,"body":"Can you, can you do both?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":979.196,"endTime":981.986,"body":"Can you do some electros in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":979.196,"endTime":981.986,"body":"some direct metalization?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":982.541,"endTime":985.264,"body":"when you get down"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":982.541,"endTime":985.264,"body":"to microvias less 0.1."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":985.294,"endTime":988.524,"body":"It might be a bit more"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":985.294,"endTime":988.524,"body":"difficult, so  the electroless"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":988.524,"endTime":989.314,"body":"copper might be the way to go."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":990.259,"endTime":991.909,"body":"would you just"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":990.259,"endTime":991.909,"body":"do the whole, that whole"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":991.914,"endTime":994.879,"body":"PCB in electros or, or"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":991.914,"endTime":994.879,"body":"would you do some of it?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":994.884,"endTime":995.149,"body":"Direct"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":995.154,"endTime":995.504,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":995.554,"endTime":995.904,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":995.909,"endTime":997.414,"body":"If it goes down"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":995.909,"endTime":997.414,"body":"one or the other,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":997.729,"endTime":998.089,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":998.179,"endTime":998.539,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":998.629,"endTime":998.929,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":999.349,"endTime":999.709,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1000.189,"endTime":1003.629,"body":"And, and is that gonna have,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1000.189,"endTime":1003.629,"body":"like if you're a designer Are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1003.629,"endTime":1007.659,"body":"you gonna have, when you think"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1003.629,"endTime":1007.659,"body":"about this process are, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1007.664,"endTime":1012.239,"body":"know, is this an area where,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1007.664,"endTime":1012.239,"body":"what am I trying to get at?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1012.269,"endTime":1012.479,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1012.479,"endTime":1015.059,"body":"I'll give you an example because"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1012.479,"endTime":1015.059,"body":"this is just the, the, the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1015.259,"endTime":1016.122,"body":"industry that I know of, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1016.122,"endTime":1018.929,"body":"We have, we have a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1016.122,"endTime":1018.929,"body":"customer, great customer,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1019.019,"endTime":1020.309,"body":"long, long time customer."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1020.335,"endTime":1020.386,"body":"I."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1021.211,"endTime":1023.641,"body":"Don't have permission to talk"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1021.211,"endTime":1023.641,"body":"about him or his product, so"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1023.641,"endTime":1027.497,"body":"I won't, but I'll just, he has"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1023.641,"endTime":1027.497,"body":"this motor controller chip on"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1027.497,"endTime":1028.907,"body":"his board that gets very warm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1029.297,"endTime":1029.597,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1030.167,"endTime":1032.697,"body":"And, and he talked to us"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1030.167,"endTime":1032.697,"body":"recently and said that,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1032.697,"endTime":1035.311,"body":"Hey, you know, I'm getting"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1032.697,"endTime":1035.311,"body":"about a 7% failure rate on"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1035.311,"endTime":1036.421,"body":"my boards from you guys."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1036.931,"endTime":1038.401,"body":"We were shocked,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1036.931,"endTime":1038.401,"body":"we were shot close."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1038.431,"endTime":1042.331,"body":"We never would like a 1%,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1038.431,"endTime":1042.331,"body":"maybe, usually less than"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1042.331,"endTime":1043.621,"body":"1% is what we're expecting."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1043.621,"endTime":1046.651,"body":"7% is astronomically"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1043.621,"endTime":1046.651,"body":"high for us."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1046.831,"endTime":1048.481,"body":"And we said, whoa, man."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1049.261,"endTime":1050.191,"body":"We investigated it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1050.251,"endTime":1052.866,"body":"And it turns out due to some"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1050.251,"endTime":1052.866,"body":"of the other components in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1052.866,"endTime":1055.266,"body":"his design, we had to use a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1052.866,"endTime":1055.266,"body":"particularly thin stencil."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1055.311,"endTime":1056.961,"body":"To, to process it properly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1057.111,"endTime":1059.481,"body":"But by making that sensor"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1057.111,"endTime":1059.481,"body":"so thin, we were starving"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1059.481,"endTime":1063.651,"body":"this one chip of getting"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1059.481,"endTime":1063.651,"body":"sufficient solder and, and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1063.681,"endTime":1066.701,"body":"conducting enough heat away"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1063.681,"endTime":1066.701,"body":"to make it operate properly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1066.71,"endTime":1068.48,"body":"But once we discovered"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1066.71,"endTime":1068.48,"body":"it, we, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1068.48,"endTime":1070.7,"body":"have all these tools, we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1068.48,"endTime":1070.7,"body":"have to, to improve that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1071.57,"endTime":1073.97,"body":"So now whenever he submits"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1071.57,"endTime":1073.97,"body":"an order, he makes sure"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1073.97,"endTime":1075.32,"body":"to call out, like, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1076.315,"endTime":1076.47,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1076.715,"endTime":1078.755,"body":"requires a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1076.715,"endTime":1078.755,"body":"certain process."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1078.785,"endTime":1080.945,"body":"You know, I know you guys"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1078.785,"endTime":1080.945,"body":"normally follow your own"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1080.945,"endTime":1082.895,"body":"process and your own best"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1080.945,"endTime":1082.895,"body":"practices, but this chip is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1082.895,"endTime":1085.475,"body":"unique and we need you to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1082.895,"endTime":1085.475,"body":"do something special for it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1085.895,"endTime":1088.325,"body":"Is there anything about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1085.895,"endTime":1088.325,"body":"direct metalizatiion or the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1088.325,"endTime":1090.875,"body":"electroless plating process"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1088.325,"endTime":1090.875,"body":"where somebody might be like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1090.88,"endTime":1092.915,"body":"Hey, I know you could use"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1094.04,"endTime":1094.37,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1094.745,"endTime":1097.415,"body":"or direct mentalization,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1094.745,"endTime":1097.415,"body":"but because of this I need"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1097.415,"endTime":1100.265,"body":"you guys to, you know, use"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1097.415,"endTime":1100.265,"body":"this different process."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1100.96,"endTime":1103.07,"body":"the PCB fab will know,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1103.61,"endTime":1104.33,"body":"they will know."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1104.41,"endTime":1106.72,"body":". If they've used the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1104.41,"endTime":1106.72,"body":"wrong one, then the, the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1106.72,"endTime":1107.8,"body":"boards will fail at test."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1107.83,"endTime":1109.43,"body":"They won't, they won't"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1107.83,"endTime":1109.43,"body":"have a connection."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1109.5,"endTime":1112.93,"body":"Cause they've got no copper"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1109.5,"endTime":1112.93,"body":"in the holes and so they will"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1112.93,"endTime":1115.74,"body":"fail anyway, so they'll know"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1112.93,"endTime":1115.74,"body":"if they've used the wrong one."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1117.115,"endTime":1118.855,"body":"So there's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1117.115,"endTime":1118.855,"body":"an enormous cost savings"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1118.86,"endTime":1122.215,"body":"to the PCB fab and, and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1118.86,"endTime":1122.215,"body":"potentially to the end user."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1122.215,"endTime":1126.219,"body":"If, if they, if a PCB fab is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1122.215,"endTime":1126.219,"body":"reputable  by going direct"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1126.219,"endTime":1128.559,"body":"normalization, but then if"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1126.219,"endTime":1128.559,"body":"they have to go electroless,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1128.559,"endTime":1129.519,"body":"it's gonna be more expensive."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1129.519,"endTime":1132.249,"body":"So, and, and, and the reason"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1129.519,"endTime":1132.249,"body":"they'd have to go electroless is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1132.249,"endTime":1133.509,"body":"cuz they have very tiny drills."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1133.509,"endTime":1133.879,"body":"Is that correct?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1133.946,"endTime":1135.944,"body":"Yeah, my, I, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1136.544,"endTime":1141.906,"body":"We mechanically drill as we"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1136.544,"endTime":1141.906,"body":"said before, down to 0.25."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1142.146,"endTime":1144.536,"body":"Anything less than that is"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1142.146,"endTime":1144.536,"body":"normally done by laser and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1144.651,"endTime":1145.161,"body":"laser."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1145.281,"endTime":1146.661,"body":"And so those are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1145.281,"endTime":1146.661,"body":"gonna be electroless."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1146.661,"endTime":1148.191,"body":"So like if it's going"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1146.661,"endTime":1148.191,"body":"through a laser, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1148.196,"endTime":1149.211,"body":"going through electroless."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1149.266,"endTime":1149.756,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1150.051,"endTime":1150.381,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1150.921,"endTime":1151.311,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1151.766,"endTime":1152.256,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1152.256,"endTime":1155.906,"body":"It's a  more proven"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1152.256,"endTime":1155.906,"body":"and reliable process."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1156.746,"endTime":1157.796,"body":"Been using it for"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1158.606,"endTime":1159.956,"body":"like Decades."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1159.956,"endTime":1161.846,"body":"and we know what he does."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1162.641,"endTime":1163.721,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1164.351,"endTime":1166.396,"body":"You just gotta , you just"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1164.351,"endTime":1166.396,"body":"gotta control the, the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1166.396,"endTime":1168.106,"body":"speed of everything because"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1166.396,"endTime":1168.106,"body":"you don't have a climate"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1168.111,"endTime":1168.766,"body":"controlled building."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1168.796,"endTime":1169.606,"body":"It still cracks me up."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1170.921,"endTime":1171.411,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1172.731,"endTime":1173.581,"body":"Well, you do."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1176.746,"endTime":1177.736,"body":"blows my mind, man."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1177.856,"endTime":1178.486,"body":"Blows my mind."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1178.516,"endTime":1180.52,"body":"Only in England only."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1180.52,"endTime":1185.328,"body":"A copper etch etchese"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1180.52,"endTime":1185.328,"body":"differently than the older,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1185.808,"endTime":1187.188,"body":"the older the etch gets"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1187.728,"endTime":1190.248,"body":"because it gets more"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1187.728,"endTime":1190.248,"body":"copper into the etch it"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1190.248,"endTime":1191.478,"body":"doesn't etch efficiently."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1191.52,"endTime":1194.1,"body":"And it's the same"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1191.52,"endTime":1194.1,"body":"with temperature."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1194.83,"endTime":1196.48,"body":"If the temperature"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1194.83,"endTime":1196.48,"body":"arises, if it's a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1196.9,"endTime":1198.82,"body":"particularly hot day, then"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1198.87,"endTime":1202.23,"body":"you have to change the speed,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1198.87,"endTime":1202.23,"body":"the convey speed of the edge."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1202.785,"endTime":1204.285,"body":"That, that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1202.785,"endTime":1204.285,"body":"just blows my mind."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1204.465,"endTime":1205.335,"body":"It just blows my mind."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1205.35,"endTime":1206.193,"body":"But you guys know all that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1206.193,"endTime":1207.663,"body":"You know how to deal with"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1206.193,"endTime":1207.663,"body":"it and you know how to use"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1207.663,"endTime":1209.823,"body":"it, and you, the end product"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1207.663,"endTime":1209.823,"body":"comes out the same way."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1209.823,"endTime":1210.033,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1210.048,"endTime":1210.468,"body":"Oh."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1210.543,"endTime":1210.783,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1211.668,"endTime":1214.848,"body":"My favorite saying"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1211.668,"endTime":1214.848,"body":"is we build PCBs in"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1214.853,"endTime":1215.958,"body":"spite of our equipment."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1216.348,"endTime":1216.828,"body":"Sometimes"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1216.838,"endTime":1217.188,"body":"Ha."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1219.453,"endTime":1219.693,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1219.873,"endTime":1221.743,"body":"For listeners who aren't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1219.873,"endTime":1221.743,"body":"familiar with Dave is talking"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1221.763,"endTime":1224.493,"body":"about his old company, not, not"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1221.763,"endTime":1224.493,"body":"the current fabs that we use."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1224.493,"endTime":1224.703,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1224.763,"endTime":1227.178,"body":"The current fabs we use,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1224.763,"endTime":1227.178,"body":"I believe, are They're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1227.178,"endTime":1227.898,"body":"climate controlled."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1227.898,"endTime":1228.214,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1228.284,"endTime":1231.044,"body":"And, and computer controlled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1228.284,"endTime":1231.044,"body":"everything and monitoring"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1231.044,"endTime":1232.034,"body":"and yada yada yada."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1232.124,"endTime":1233.984,"body":"We, we, we work with"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1232.124,"endTime":1233.984,"body":"some really nice fabs."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1233.984,"endTime":1236.883,"body":"I, I gotta say, I've been"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1233.984,"endTime":1236.883,"body":"very impressed with the boards"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1236.883,"endTime":1238.023,"body":"we get from our suppliers."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1238.023,"endTime":1239.008,"body":"They've been top notch."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1239.067,"endTime":1239.367,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1239.367,"endTime":1242.877,"body":"So you, so that's kind of so"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1239.367,"endTime":1242.877,"body":"that this, this plating process"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1242.877,"endTime":1245.517,"body":"or direct mentalization process,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1242.877,"endTime":1245.517,"body":"I shouldn't call it plating"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1245.579,"endTime":1246.899,"body":"electros, what was it called?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1247.419,"endTime":1250.259,"body":"It is, it is"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1247.419,"endTime":1250.259,"body":"illustrating electric copper."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1250.282,"endTime":1252.246,"body":"But it's not the,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1250.282,"endTime":1252.246,"body":"it's not the major plating"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1252.246,"endTime":1255.276,"body":"that gets done in the later"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1252.246,"endTime":1255.276,"body":"process, the electroless copper"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1255.359,"endTime":1256.455,"body":"or the direct metalization."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1256.504,"endTime":1259.534,"body":"So after a cleaning, it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1256.504,"endTime":1259.534,"body":"goes into that process."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1259.534,"endTime":1261.509,"body":"And that's kind of the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1259.534,"endTime":1261.509,"body":"one two punch after"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1261.509,"endTime":1262.589,"body":"drilling, would you say?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1262.589,"endTime":1263.109,"body":"Is that correct?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1263.579,"endTime":1266.039,"body":"Yeah, it gets,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1263.579,"endTime":1266.039,"body":"it gets cleaned."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1266.099,"endTime":1267.299,"body":"Go through electroless copper."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1267.299,"endTime":1270.672,"body":"electroless Copper can take 40"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1267.299,"endTime":1270.672,"body":"minutes to run through a line."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1270.672,"endTime":1274.736,"body":"If you go, if you do have"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1270.672,"endTime":1274.736,"body":"DMSE then it will, it"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1274.736,"endTime":1276.656,"body":"will take five minutes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1277.106,"endTime":1277.856,"body":"Holy cow."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1277.856,"endTime":1278.756,"body":"That different."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1279.026,"endTime":1279.596,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1279.896,"endTime":1280.466,"body":"difference."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1281.126,"endTime":1285.254,"body":"So from there it can go"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1281.126,"endTime":1285.254,"body":"into outer layer print."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1285.914,"endTime":1286.274,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1286.724,"endTime":1287.894,"body":"Outer layer print."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1290.414,"endTime":1290.684,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1291.134,"endTime":1296.674,"body":"so it is exactly the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1291.134,"endTime":1296.674,"body":"same process as the inner"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1296.674,"endTime":1297.614,"body":"layer printing process."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1299.114,"endTime":1300.289,"body":"you're doing it on"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1299.114,"endTime":1300.289,"body":"the outer layers.."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1300.779,"endTime":1301.229,"body":"Oh, okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1301.229,"endTime":1303.179,"body":"So that was a few episodes ago."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1303.432,"endTime":1308.412,"body":"see if I can find, that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1303.432,"endTime":1308.412,"body":"was a while ago, man."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1308.482,"endTime":1312.162,"body":"Inter interlay production"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1308.482,"endTime":1312.162,"body":"to the drill shop."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1312.162,"endTime":1313.722,"body":"So that was episode 29."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1314.262,"endTime":1315.342,"body":"That's going way back."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1315.402,"endTime":1317.202,"body":"We talked about inter"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1315.402,"endTime":1317.202,"body":"layer production."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1317.232,"endTime":1319.953,"body":"So outer layer, outer"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1317.232,"endTime":1319.953,"body":"layer production, our"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1319.953,"endTime":1321.573,"body":"outer, outer layer print."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1322.683,"endTime":1324.723,"body":"It's the same thing we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1322.683,"endTime":1324.723,"body":"talked about in episode 29."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1324.723,"endTime":1326.733,"body":"Except now, now your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1324.723,"endTime":1326.733,"body":"sandwich is done."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1326.853,"endTime":1328.473,"body":"You don't have to worry"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1326.853,"endTime":1328.473,"body":"about your sandwich anymore."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1328.473,"endTime":1330.753,"body":"You, you, you're just worry,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1328.473,"endTime":1330.753,"body":"worried about the outside"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1330.933,"endTime":1333.603,"body":"or it's like, or it's like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1330.933,"endTime":1333.603,"body":"a two-sided board, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1333.603,"endTime":1335.373,"body":"If it's a two-sided board,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1333.603,"endTime":1335.373,"body":"there's no sandwich."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1335.463,"endTime":1335.913,"body":"You're just,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1336.228,"endTime":1336.828,"body":"exactly that."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1337.068,"endTime":1337.398,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1337.478,"endTime":1340.887,"body":"So it is gonna go through the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1337.478,"endTime":1340.887,"body":"same processes whether it's"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1340.945,"endTime":1343.315,"body":"laser imaging or using film."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1343.905,"endTime":1346.015,"body":"You're exposing it"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1343.905,"endTime":1346.015,"body":"with an artwork."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1346.805,"endTime":1352.63,"body":"So you put a photo photoimagable"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1346.805,"endTime":1352.63,"body":"film on the surface."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1353.92,"endTime":1358.36,"body":"You're using either laser"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1353.92,"endTime":1358.36,"body":"imaging, use a laser to"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1358.43,"endTime":1361.25,"body":"expose your pattern, or"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1358.43,"endTime":1361.25,"body":"you are using an artwork"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1361.955,"endTime":1365.822,"body":"Okay, so I've seen these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1361.955,"endTime":1365.822,"body":"before when I've been touring."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1365.862,"endTime":1369.012,"body":"PCB fabs, they have these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1365.862,"endTime":1369.012,"body":"drawers full of these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1369.012,"endTime":1370.932,"body":"transparencies with, with."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1371.897,"endTime":1372.667,"body":"That's it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1372.912,"endTime":1375.072,"body":"basically a negative"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1372.912,"endTime":1375.072,"body":"of the board of some"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1375.162,"endTime":1375.476,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1375.539,"endTime":1379.439,"body":"And they lay that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1375.539,"endTime":1379.439,"body":"over the copper and they,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1379.499,"endTime":1381.029,"body":"they register it somehow."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1381.089,"endTime":1383.36,"body":"I, I'm sure there's a fancy"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1381.089,"endTime":1383.36,"body":"process for registering it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1383.365,"endTime":1384.459,"body":"to the, to the board to make"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1384.483,"endTime":1387.753,"body":"I'm sure, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1384.483,"endTime":1387.753,"body":"every PCB shop's got"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1387.933,"endTime":1390.693,"body":"something slightly different"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1387.933,"endTime":1390.693,"body":"to each other, but Yes."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1390.903,"endTime":1391.143,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1391.743,"endTime":1396.783,"body":"And then they, then"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1391.743,"endTime":1396.783,"body":"they expose the copper to."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1397.443,"endTime":1400.683,"body":"Some very particular type of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1397.443,"endTime":1400.683,"body":"light because aren't these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1400.923,"endTime":1402.903,"body":"rooms usually like yellow?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1403.023,"endTime":1405.273,"body":"Isn't there like, like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1403.023,"endTime":1405.273,"body":"they have a different light"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1405.273,"endTime":1408.693,"body":"bulb than most rooms so"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1405.273,"endTime":1408.693,"body":"that the humans can see."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1408.723,"endTime":1409.893,"body":"Yeah, and it's yellow."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1410.423,"endTime":1411.543,"body":"it, it's yellow light."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1411.843,"endTime":1414.618,"body":"So, if it looks different,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1411.843,"endTime":1414.618,"body":"obviously, cuz you're, you"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1414.618,"endTime":1416.551,"body":"haven't got any UV light,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1414.618,"endTime":1416.551,"body":"any blue light at all."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1416.551,"endTime":1416.901,"body":"Ah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1418.136,"endTime":1421.016,"body":"So it takes all the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1418.136,"endTime":1421.016,"body":"UV out cuz you're using"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1421.016,"endTime":1427.076,"body":"UV in your exposure units"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1421.016,"endTime":1427.076,"body":"or in your laser imaging"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1427.706,"endTime":1427.871,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1428.276,"endTime":1432.286,"body":"to, to expose"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1428.276,"endTime":1432.286,"body":"the photoimagable film,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1432.346,"endTime":1434.326,"body":"which is gonna create"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1432.346,"endTime":1434.326,"body":"your pattern cuz your,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1434.356,"endTime":1438.142,"body":"cuz If you expose it"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1434.356,"endTime":1438.142,"body":"to uv, it hardens."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1439.537,"endTime":1440.027,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1440.652,"endTime":1442.972,"body":"If you just took it out"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1440.652,"endTime":1442.972,"body":"into a normal room, the whole"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1442.972,"endTime":1446.632,"body":"thing would harden and you would"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1442.972,"endTime":1446.632,"body":"just send that with a, with a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1446.632,"endTime":1448.132,"body":"blank sheet of copper again."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1448.612,"endTime":1448.882,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1448.887,"endTime":1449.987,"body":"We talked about that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1449.987,"endTime":1452.649,"body":"On the inner layer production,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1449.987,"endTime":1452.649,"body":"there's a special film that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1452.654,"endTime":1455.859,"body":"goes on the copper that changes"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1452.654,"endTime":1455.859,"body":"when you expose it to UV light."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1455.927,"endTime":1456.377,"body":"Gotcha."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1456.377,"endTime":1456.677,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1456.707,"endTime":1459.677,"body":"I, I don't wanna repeat too"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1456.707,"endTime":1459.677,"body":"much because, well, then"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1459.677,"endTime":1462.077,"body":"again, it was like 20 episodes"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1462.252,"endTime":1465.204,"body":"It was, it"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1462.252,"endTime":1465.204,"body":"was, it was 28 ago."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1465.266,"endTime":1468.356,"body":"The only difference between"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1465.266,"endTime":1468.356,"body":"inlays and outlays is you,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1468.896,"endTime":1472.826,"body":"this time you are exposing"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1468.896,"endTime":1472.826,"body":"on an inlay, you're exposing"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1473.186,"endTime":1476.073,"body":"a negative of your image,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1476.253,"endTime":1476.863,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1477.123,"endTime":1480.183,"body":"your tracking pattern,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1477.123,"endTime":1480.183,"body":"and on an outer layer you"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1480.183,"endTime":1482.253,"body":"are actually gonna expose."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1483.423,"endTime":1488.943,"body":"A positive image, so when"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1483.423,"endTime":1488.943,"body":"it comes out, so once it's"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1488.943,"endTime":1492.453,"body":"been exposed, it, it goes"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1488.943,"endTime":1492.453,"body":"through the same, the same"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1492.458,"endTime":1494.103,"body":"developer, developer line"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1494.133,"endTime":1498.903,"body":"to wash off everything that"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1494.133,"endTime":1498.903,"body":"hasn't been exposed by UV light."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1498.918,"endTime":1500.748,"body":"Cause, cuz the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1498.918,"endTime":1500.748,"body":"UV light hardened it so"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1500.748,"endTime":1502.068,"body":"that stuff's staying."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1502.188,"endTime":1502.518,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1502.713,"endTime":1505.593,"body":"So anything that's"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1502.713,"endTime":1505.593,"body":"still, that's unexposed"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1505.593,"endTime":1506.583,"body":"will get washed off."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1507.333,"endTime":1509.963,"body":"But this time  you"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1507.333,"endTime":1509.963,"body":"will see if you take it"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1510.163,"endTime":1511.313,"body":"out, out of that room."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1511.973,"endTime":1519.263,"body":"You'll see a panel which will"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1511.973,"endTime":1519.263,"body":"have a purpleish film over it,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1519.353,"endTime":1522.083,"body":"and you'll see the copper track,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1519.353,"endTime":1522.083,"body":"copper tracking underneath."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1522.353,"endTime":1522.963,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1523.048,"endTime":1524.303,"body":". Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1524.304,"endTime":1524.305,"body":". Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1524.311,"endTime":1524.403,"body":". Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1524.723,"endTime":1528.233,"body":"So, and that's, that"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1524.723,"endTime":1528.233,"body":"is what is gonna get played."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1529.368,"endTime":1529.523,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1529.733,"endTime":1533.858,"body":"And  the laser doesn't use"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1529.733,"endTime":1533.858,"body":"a transparency, it just"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1533.858,"endTime":1536.708,"body":"directly lasers the, the film."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1538.058,"endTime":1541.528,"body":"Yeah, but  it's hardening"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1538.058,"endTime":1541.528,"body":"the film where the laser goes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1541.888,"endTime":1542.458,"body":"Whe yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1542.828,"endTime":1545.308,"body":"Wherever the laser goes,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1542.828,"endTime":1545.308,"body":"it's getting hard and, and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1545.308,"endTime":1549.776,"body":"it's it must be slower than,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1545.308,"endTime":1549.776,"body":"than imaging has to be."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1550.136,"endTime":1551.856,"body":"Because imaging"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1550.136,"endTime":1551.856,"body":"you do all at once."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1551.87,"endTime":1554.781,"body":"Some of the laser"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1551.87,"endTime":1554.781,"body":"imaging equipment's quite"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1554.781,"endTime":1556.631,"body":"fast, but not as fast as."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1557.406,"endTime":1558.846,"body":"Put it in a drawer"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1557.406,"endTime":1558.846,"body":"for 30 seconds."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1558.846,"endTime":1560.916,"body":"I'll take it back out of a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1558.846,"endTime":1560.916,"body":"drawer and then next one,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1561.561,"endTime":1561.951,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1562.221,"endTime":1565.866,"body":"So that, that but,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1562.221,"endTime":1565.866,"body":"but there's no setup."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1565.866,"endTime":1567.366,"body":"You don't have to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1565.866,"endTime":1567.366,"body":"print these films."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1567.366,"endTime":1568.746,"body":"You don't have to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1567.366,"endTime":1568.746,"body":"store these films."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1568.746,"endTime":1571.866,"body":"You, you can switch from job"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1568.746,"endTime":1571.866,"body":"to job to job to job, to job."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1571.866,"endTime":1572.496,"body":"But you don't have to."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1572.751,"endTime":1574.881,"body":"And it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1572.751,"endTime":1574.881,"body":"gonna be more accurate."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1575.721,"endTime":1576.691,"body":"Oh, more accurate?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1576.696,"endTime":1577.041,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1577.071,"endTime":1577.731,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1577.731,"endTime":1581.362,"body":"You could, you could you could"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1577.731,"endTime":1581.362,"body":"print down to two thou lines."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1581.722,"endTime":1582.232,"body":"Oh, geez."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1582.322,"endTime":1582.622,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1582.907,"endTime":1583.567,"body":"With a laser,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1584.512,"endTime":1586.732,"body":"And why, why, why"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1584.512,"endTime":1586.732,"body":"is that, Dave, do you know?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1586.732,"endTime":1588.832,"body":"Is is it because the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1586.732,"endTime":1588.832,"body":"shadowing or something?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1588.832,"endTime":1589.012,"body":"Because"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1589.177,"endTime":1590.407,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1590.717,"endTime":1593.447,"body":"With a, a film and"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1590.717,"endTime":1593.447,"body":"artwork, a photo tool, you"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1593.447,"endTime":1595.299,"body":"gotta get total contact"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1596.289,"endTime":1596.724,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1597.084,"endTime":1599.684,"body":"I was almost wondering if"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1597.084,"endTime":1599.684,"body":"you vacuum sealed it or"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1599.709,"endTime":1601.089,"body":"It, yeah, it, it, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1601.089,"endTime":1604.659,"body":"It's normally vacumed between"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1601.089,"endTime":1604.659,"body":"two, two pieces of glass."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1604.774,"endTime":1605.384,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1605.894,"endTime":1609.074,"body":"But that imaging"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1605.894,"endTime":1609.074,"body":"process, you get a little"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1609.074,"endTime":1610.253,"body":"bit of what do you call it?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1610.793,"endTime":1611.543,"body":"Refraction."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1612.938,"endTime":1613.388,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1613.463,"endTime":1616.133,"body":"and you get an"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1613.463,"endTime":1616.133,"body":"undercutting of the light"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1617.138,"endTime":1617.318,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1617.323,"endTime":1619.328,"body":"Cuz your light, your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1617.323,"endTime":1619.328,"body":"light is being projected"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1619.328,"endTime":1620.768,"body":"by some kind of a bulb."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1620.828,"endTime":1621.158,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1621.158,"endTime":1624.038,"body":"And that's gonna, that's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1621.158,"endTime":1624.038,"body":"gonna broadcast not in a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1624.758,"endTime":1626.258,"body":"perfect line necessarily."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1626.258,"endTime":1627.728,"body":"You probably have a diffuser or"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1627.833,"endTime":1628.253,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1628.553,"endTime":1629.203,"body":"Of, of."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1629.948,"endTime":1632.228,"body":"Of sorts, but that's"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1629.948,"endTime":1632.228,"body":"not gonna be perfect."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1632.228,"endTime":1632.498,"body":"Like a,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1632.498,"endTime":1632.738,"body":"like a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1632.783,"endTime":1633.443,"body":"gonna be perfect."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1633.473,"endTime":1633.923,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1633.983,"endTime":1636.833,"body":"Whereas a laser's gonna,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1633.983,"endTime":1636.833,"body":"because lasers can get."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1637.403,"endTime":1642.143,"body":"Really, really small , like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1637.403,"endTime":1642.143,"body":"I can't believe how small"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1642.143,"endTime":1644.543,"body":"the apertures are that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1642.143,"endTime":1644.543,"body":"they're cutting on some"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1644.543,"endTime":1645.473,"body":"of our stencils now."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1645.503,"endTime":1649.044,"body":"Cause we're starting to get"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1645.503,"endTime":1649.044,"body":"orders for Imperial oh 1 0 5,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1649.044,"endTime":1651.024,"body":"which is, which is metric 4 0 2."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1651.504,"endTime":1654.789,"body":"So 0.4 by 0.2 millimeter"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1651.504,"endTime":1654.789,"body":"capacitors and resistors."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1655.209,"endTime":1659.979,"body":"And the apertures on those"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1655.209,"endTime":1659.979,"body":"stencils are just insanely small"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1659.979,"endTime":1660.879,"body":"and they're cut by a laser."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1660.939,"endTime":1663.039,"body":"So if they can do it on a."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1663.624,"endTime":1663.744,"body":"Think"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1663.984,"endTime":1666.094,"body":"Stainless steel, they"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1663.984,"endTime":1666.094,"body":"can do it on a pcb probably"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1666.099,"endTime":1666.934,"body":"even more accurately."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1666.939,"endTime":1669.384,"body":"Cuz I have to imagine that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1666.939,"endTime":1669.384,"body":"a laser's not as intense cuz"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1669.384,"endTime":1670.914,"body":"it's just exposing some film."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1670.914,"endTime":1672.384,"body":"It's not cutting"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1670.914,"endTime":1672.384,"body":"through stainless"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1672.594,"endTime":1672.92,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1673.245,"endTime":1675.885,"body":"Obviously the problems come."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1676.095,"endTime":1679.365,"body":"You can image a two thou"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1676.095,"endTime":1679.365,"body":"line in a two thou space,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1679.365,"endTime":1681.075,"body":"but the problem is etching it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1681.26,"endTime":1682.09,"body":"etching it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1682.09,"endTime":1684.33,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1684.6,"endTime":1687.06,"body":"There was, there was one"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1684.6,"endTime":1687.06,"body":"shop I was talking to."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1687.42,"endTime":1689.272,"body":"Maybe I mentioned them"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1687.42,"endTime":1689.272,"body":"on the show before."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1689.342,"endTime":1691.922,"body":"I don't know if we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1689.342,"endTime":1691.922,"body":"interviewed them on the show."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1692.462,"endTime":1694.58,"body":"We should maybe think about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1692.462,"endTime":1694.58,"body":"it, but there are shop"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1694.58,"endTime":1699.02,"body":"out in Michigan who they"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1694.58,"endTime":1699.02,"body":"came up with an additive"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1699.025,"endTime":1701.06,"body":"process to do one mill lines"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1701.24,"endTime":1701.54,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1702.05,"endTime":1703.13,"body":"really wild."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1703.67,"endTime":1706.55,"body":"yeah, where you are adding"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1703.67,"endTime":1706.55,"body":"a copper on instead of taking"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1706.55,"endTime":1707.81,"body":"a copper away with etching."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1708.32,"endTime":1708.74,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1708.98,"endTime":1709.31,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1710.06,"endTime":1710.3,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1710.895,"endTime":1713.345,"body":"I dunno how expensive"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1710.895,"endTime":1713.345,"body":"that process is."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1713.69,"endTime":1714.56,"body":"Oh, I don't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1713.69,"endTime":1714.56,"body":"think it's cheap."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1714.725,"endTime":1716.825,"body":"I've never, I've never"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1714.725,"endTime":1716.825,"body":"actually seen it myself."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1717.41,"endTime":1719.87,"body":"I think my understanding"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1717.41,"endTime":1719.87,"body":"is they have one customer"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1719.87,"endTime":1722.904,"body":"for it, and I believe"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1719.87,"endTime":1722.904,"body":"it's a defense contractor."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1723.069,"endTime":1723.489,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1724.179,"endTime":1724.389,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1724.389,"endTime":1724.719,"body":"It doesn't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1724.804,"endTime":1726.332,"body":"they're the only"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1724.804,"endTime":1726.332,"body":"people with enough money to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1726.332,"endTime":1727.732,"body":"probably afford it, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1728.237,"endTime":1728.597,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1728.666,"endTime":1728.966,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1728.966,"endTime":1730.766,"body":"So that's, so,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1728.966,"endTime":1730.766,"body":"that's fascinating."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1730.856,"endTime":1735.566,"body":"The, the, I, I guess I didn't,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1730.856,"endTime":1735.566,"body":"you know, We've talked about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1735.566,"endTime":1737.006,"body":"my memory on the show before."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1737.126,"endTime":1740.096,"body":"I, it's, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1737.126,"endTime":1740.096,"body":"all up there, but my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1740.101,"endTime":1741.206,"body":"forklift is broken."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1741.566,"endTime":1744.956,"body":"And if this is , if"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1741.566,"endTime":1744.956,"body":"this is repetitive for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1744.956,"endTime":1747.356,"body":"listeners, I apologize,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1744.956,"endTime":1747.356,"body":"but I forget these things."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1747.791,"endTime":1751.646,"body":", I don't, I, my, I don't recall"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1747.791,"endTime":1751.646,"body":"talking about laser imaging."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1751.762,"endTime":1753.772,"body":"Do you laser image inner"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1751.762,"endTime":1753.772,"body":"layers to, or is that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1753.772,"endTime":1754.552,"body":"just an outer layer"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1754.732,"endTime":1758.812,"body":"no, you can you can"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1754.732,"endTime":1758.812,"body":"laser image soldermask as well."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1758.842,"endTime":1759.172,"body":"Sorry."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1759.232,"endTime":1759.642,"body":"so"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1760.462,"endTime":1761.452,"body":"Oh, oh boy."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1761.482,"endTime":1761.932,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1762.142,"endTime":1765.112,"body":"Yeah, now that's So"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1765.997,"endTime":1766.327,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1766.357,"endTime":1769.537,"body":"Now, now that you've"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1766.357,"endTime":1769.537,"body":"imaged it, then it's going"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1769.537,"endTime":1773.227,"body":"through that process of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1769.537,"endTime":1773.227,"body":"removing the film where it's,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1773.227,"endTime":1775.595,"body":"where it's soft, leaving"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1773.227,"endTime":1775.595,"body":"the film, where it's hard"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1775.595,"endTime":1777.385,"body":"what happens next to it."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1777.457,"endTime":1780.637,"body":"That will go to"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1777.457,"endTime":1780.637,"body":"the electro placing line."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1781.117,"endTime":1782.527,"body":"Okay, so we'll"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1781.117,"endTime":1782.527,"body":"get into plating."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1782.797,"endTime":1784.717,"body":"I think that's probably a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1782.797,"endTime":1784.717,"body":"good place to stop right there"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1784.722,"endTime":1788.287,"body":"if you ask me , because I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1784.722,"endTime":1788.287,"body":"suspect that's, that's a whole"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1788.287,"endTime":1791.248,"body":"other can of worms that we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1788.287,"endTime":1791.248,"body":"could open right away, huh?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1791.319,"endTime":1795.669,"body":"It can do, yeah, again,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1791.319,"endTime":1795.669,"body":"small house cause problems."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1796.344,"endTime":1796.854,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1796.884,"endTime":1797.334,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1798.744,"endTime":1798.924,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1798.924,"endTime":1799.524,"body":"So, alright."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1799.524,"endTime":1802.348,"body":"So Dave, if you've got what we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1799.524,"endTime":1802.348,"body":"like to do every time we talk"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1802.353,"endTime":1805.758,"body":"about an in-depth topic is we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1802.353,"endTime":1805.758,"body":"like to give designers a, a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1805.763,"endTime":1809.096,"body":"takeaway something for them"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1805.763,"endTime":1809.096,"body":"to think about as it relates"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1809.101,"endTime":1810.116,"body":"to this specific design."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1810.461,"endTime":1814.151,"body":"That, that like, Hey, if you're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1810.461,"endTime":1814.151,"body":"doing X, Y, Z, it's gonna make"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1814.151,"endTime":1815.351,"body":"this process more difficult."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1815.351,"endTime":1818.771,"body":"So we talked about the, the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1815.351,"endTime":1818.771,"body":"cleaning away of the resin."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1818.771,"endTime":1821.909,"body":"We talked about the the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1818.771,"endTime":1821.909,"body":"plating of the, of the holes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1821.909,"endTime":1822.329,"body":"Well, the."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1823.409,"endTime":1825.599,"body":"Like the pre plating, I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1823.409,"endTime":1825.599,"body":"dunno, there's gotta be a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1825.599,"endTime":1826.319,"body":"different term for that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1826.529,"endTime":1828.46,"body":"And then and then the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1826.529,"endTime":1828.46,"body":"outer layer imaging."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1828.51,"endTime":1831.321,"body":"Is there anything about their"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1828.51,"endTime":1831.321,"body":"designs that, that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1831.326,"endTime":1834.321,"body":"if they're, if, if they do"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1831.326,"endTime":1834.321,"body":"this, it'll make life easier."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1834.326,"endTime":1836.121,"body":"If they do that, it'll make"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1834.326,"endTime":1836.121,"body":"life more difficult, more"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1836.121,"endTime":1837.603,"body":"expensive, yada yada, yada."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1837.607,"endTime":1839.977,"body":"Not as far as"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1837.607,"endTime":1839.977,"body":"those processes go."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1840.046,"endTime":1843.346,"body":"But, but generally, generally"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1840.046,"endTime":1843.346,"body":"speaking, the smaller the whole,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1843.716,"endTime":1847.286,"body":"the smaller tracks, the smaller"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1843.716,"endTime":1847.286,"body":"gaps, the harder it is to make."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1847.34,"endTime":1850.82,"body":"But as far as that process go,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1847.34,"endTime":1850.82,"body":"that's just preparing the panel"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1850.892,"endTime":1852.542,"body":"to be able to place it 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get"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1890.367,"endTime":1891.162,"body":"to the bottom of the hole."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1891.237,"endTime":1893.297,"body":"It's like putting"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1891.237,"endTime":1893.297,"body":"marbles  in a small tube."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1893.357,"endTime":1894.707,"body":"They'll stick together."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1895.037,"endTime":1895.247,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1895.307,"endTime":1896.057,"body":"They'll all get stuck."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1896.357,"endTime":1898.907,"body":"You, you gotta shake"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1896.357,"endTime":1898.907,"body":"'em to get 'em to the bottom"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1898.907,"endTime":1900.107,"body":"of the bottom of the tube."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1901.082,"endTime":1902.522,"body":"can you literally"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1901.082,"endTime":1902.522,"body":"vibrate the boards?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1902.522,"endTime":1903.242,"body":"Do you guys do that"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1903.307,"endTime":1904.457,"body":"Oh, oh, oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1905.357,"endTime":1907.817,"body":"The most primitive method"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1905.357,"endTime":1907.817,"body":"is to hit with a hammer."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1908.222,"endTime":1908.882,"body":"come on,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1909.197,"endTime":1910.607,"body":"No, I'm not kidding you."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1912.467,"endTime":1916.247,"body":"The most primitive method is"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1912.467,"endTime":1916.247,"body":"to go along every couple of"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1916.252,"endTime":1918.347,"body":"minutes and whack with a mallet."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1922.727,"endTime":1926.117,"body":"You have some of"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1922.727,"endTime":1926.117,"body":"these are automatic,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1926.177,"endTime":1927.747,"body":"automatic like vibrate"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1928.397,"endTime":1928.877,"body":"yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1928.892,"endTime":1931.622,"body":"And you, you have air"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1928.892,"endTime":1931.622,"body":"bubbles in the solution,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1931.922,"endTime":1935.342,"body":"like to agitate the solutions"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1931.922,"endTime":1935.342,"body":"and all sorts of things."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":1935.342,"endTime":1935.582,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1935.867,"endTime":1936.377,"body":"Oh man."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1936.467,"endTime":1938.987,"body":"Well, let, let's, let's, let's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1936.467,"endTime":1938.987,"body":"hold onto that for next week."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1938.987,"endTime":1942.297,"body":"But I will tell you, it, it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1938.987,"endTime":1942.297,"body":"reminds me of we've got we've"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1942.297,"endTime":1944.941,"body":"got guy works for us who's,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1942.297,"endTime":1944.941,"body":"who's been in this industry."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1945.01,"endTime":1946.12,"body":"For, for a long time."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1946.12,"endTime":1950.11,"body":"And, and he said that, well,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1946.12,"endTime":1950.11,"body":"so during the reflow cycle"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1950.38,"endTime":1953.021,"body":"of, of surface mount assembly"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1950.38,"endTime":1953.021,"body":"when you're melting all"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1953.021,"endTime":1957.281,"body":"your solder paste, which we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1953.021,"endTime":1957.281,"body":"talked about in episode 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of"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2002.882,"endTime":2004.472,"body":"bagging a plating rack."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2005.552,"endTime":2006.482,"body":"hitting it with a mallet."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2006.842,"endTime":2007.652,"body":"That's so funny."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2008.942,"endTime":2010.442,"body":"Yeah, it's just, that's wild."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2010.502,"endTime":2011.852,"body":"Well, we deal with"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2010.502,"endTime":2011.852,"body":"the same thing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2011.852,"endTime":2015.362,"body":"Your, your, your analogy of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2011.852,"endTime":2015.362,"body":"marbles going through a tube."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2015.902,"endTime":2018.115,"body":"That's basically what we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2015.902,"endTime":2018.115,"body":"struggle with on 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but"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2082.9,"endTime":2084.16,"body":"it is not more accurate."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2084.165,"endTime":2086.721,"body":"It is not more"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2084.165,"endTime":2086.721,"body":"repeatable than stencil."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2086.721,"endTime":2087.081,"body":"Stencil."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2087.081,"endTime":2088.951,"body":"Still way more accurate,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2087.081,"endTime":2088.951,"body":"way more repeatable."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2088.951,"endTime":2090.373,"body":"But the jet printer"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2088.951,"endTime":2090.373,"body":"is getting there."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2090.663,"endTime":2094.677,"body":"We, we were able to successfully"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2090.663,"endTime":2094.677,"body":"jet print 01005 boards."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2094.707,"endTime":2098.187,"body":"It was a little heavy,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2094.707,"endTime":2098.187,"body":"it was a little, little"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2098.187,"endTime":2099.987,"body":"more solder pace than we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2098.187,"endTime":2099.987,"body":"would've wanted to have seen."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2099.987,"endTime":2102.057,"body":"But it did it, it did,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2099.987,"endTime":2102.057,"body":"it got the job done."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2102.057,"endTime":2105.792,"body":"So, And then you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2102.057,"endTime":2105.792,"body":"got special reflow"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2105.792,"endTime":2106.702,"body":"requirements with nitrogen."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2106.722,"endTime":2108.642,"body":"Anyway, it's a, it's a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2106.722,"endTime":2108.642,"body":"whole complicated thing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2108.684,"endTime":2110.255,"body":"This isn't a show about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2108.684,"endTime":2110.255,"body":"sense of printing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2110.255,"endTime":2113.718,"body":"This is a show about outer"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2110.255,"endTime":2113.718,"body":"layer production and the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2113.718,"endTime":2115.06,"body":"swath off of drilling"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2116.015,"endTime":2116.505,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2116.755,"endTime":2122.995,"body":"So yeah, I mean, you haven't,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2116.755,"endTime":2122.995,"body":"as it comes out outside"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2122.995,"endTime":2125.155,"body":"print, you haven't actually,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2122.995,"endTime":2125.155,"body":"technically, technically"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2125.155,"endTime":2127.305,"body":"got an outer layer yet."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2127.74,"endTime":2128.3,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2129.405,"endTime":2131.365,"body":"you still have you, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2129.405,"endTime":2131.365,"body":"still, well you've, you've"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2131.365,"endTime":2133.525,"body":"gotta wash away the soft"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2131.365,"endTime":2133.525,"body":"stuff and you've, you've"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2133.525,"endTime":2135.655,"body":"got the hard stuff left over"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2133.525,"endTime":2135.655,"body":"and you still gotta do stuff"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2135.745,"endTime":2137.815,"body":"Yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2135.745,"endTime":2137.815,"body":"still gotta plate it."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2138.385,"endTime":2139.855,"body":"You gotta plate the copper."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2140.345,"endTime":2140.835,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2141.025,"endTime":2145.855,"body":"So that will go down a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2141.025,"endTime":2145.855,"body":"series of, of baths and plate"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2145.855,"endTime":2150.505,"body":"for however long, however much"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2145.855,"endTime":2150.505,"body":"copper got a plate, usually"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2150.505,"endTime":2156.505,"body":"about, there's about 45 minutes"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2150.505,"endTime":2156.505,"body":"as a standard, like one ounce."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2157.105,"endTime":2157.675,"body":"Finished"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2158.005,"endTime":2159.415,"body":"Do you wanna get"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2158.005,"endTime":2159.415,"body":"into this now, Dave?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2159.415,"endTime":2160.915,"body":"Or do you wanna hold"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2159.415,"endTime":2160.915,"body":"this for a future"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2161.185,"endTime":2164.155,"body":"but yeah, it depends"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2161.185,"endTime":2164.155,"body":"if you wanna, we've done"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2164.155,"endTime":2165.145,"body":"outer layer printing"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2165.715,"endTime":2166.165,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2166.345,"endTime":2167.305,"body":"And this is part of it."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2167.515,"endTime":2168.906,"body":"And, but you"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2167.515,"endTime":2168.906,"body":"haven't actually got"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2168.911,"endTime":2169.645,"body":"an outer layere yet."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2169.915,"endTime":2170.365,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2170.485,"endTime":2170.875,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2171.835,"endTime":2172.285,"body":"That's fine."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2172.285,"endTime":2172.915,"body":"Let's do it then."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2173.005,"endTime":2177.895,"body":"you got an image of"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2173.005,"endTime":2177.895,"body":"an outer layer so to, to"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2177.9,"endTime":2178.735,"body":"actually finish it off."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2179.605,"endTime":2183.145,"body":"It's gotta the electro plate"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2179.605,"endTime":2183.145,"body":"so you plate in copper."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2184.985,"endTime":2187.885,"body":"You're plate copper into the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2184.985,"endTime":2187.885,"body":"holes and you've gotta have"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2188.275,"endTime":2189.115,"body":"18 marks down the holes."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2190.105,"endTime":2195.055,"body":"So you are putting, I think"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2190.105,"endTime":2195.055,"body":"it's two thirds on the top"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2195.055,"endTime":2196.165,"body":"or one third in the hole."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2196.225,"endTime":2198.295,"body":"Some of that, that you end"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2196.225,"endTime":2198.295,"body":"up what you end up with."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2198.9,"endTime":2199.49,"body":"Oh, okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2199.495,"endTime":2199.69,"body":"So if."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2200.77,"endTime":2203.265,"body":"Let's say, let's say you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2200.77,"endTime":2203.265,"body":"have let's just say 20,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2203.265,"endTime":2204.255,"body":"just to make the math easy."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2204.255,"endTime":2206.914,"body":"Let's say, let's say your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2204.255,"endTime":2206.914,"body":"walls are 20 micron thick."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2206.969,"endTime":2209.684,"body":"Then you potentially"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2206.969,"endTime":2209.684,"body":"have 40 microns thick"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2209.714,"endTime":2210.884,"body":"on the, on the surface."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2211.199,"endTime":2211.439,"body":"surface."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2212.219,"endTime":2214.301,"body":"And that's basically"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2212.219,"endTime":2214.301,"body":"a one ounce."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2215.011,"endTime":2216.851,"body":"If someone asked for a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2215.011,"endTime":2216.851,"body":"one ounce, outer layer,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2217.181,"endTime":2219.371,"body":"that's, that's what the,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2217.181,"endTime":2219.371,"body":"that's what they would get."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2220.316,"endTime":2220.946,"body":"Fascinating."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2221.156,"endTime":2223.736,"body":"And again, I know we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2221.156,"endTime":2223.736,"body":"talked about this before."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2225.116,"endTime":2227.666,"body":"Where, why don't they just"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2225.116,"endTime":2227.666,"body":"call it the thickness?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2227.666,"endTime":2230.606,"body":"Why do they call it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2227.666,"endTime":2230.606,"body":"one ounce ? I don't."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2230.801,"endTime":2231.611,"body":"it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2231.656,"endTime":2232.886,"body":"It's gotta"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2231.656,"endTime":2232.886,"body":"be a legacy thing."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2232.901,"endTime":2234.461,"body":"but it's the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2232.901,"endTime":2234.461,"body":"amount of copper plated."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2236.551,"endTime":2240.193,"body":"On on a foot of material"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2236.551,"endTime":2240.193,"body":"in an hour, I think it is."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2240.193,"endTime":2240.583,"body":"So like"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2240.583,"endTime":2240.793,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2240.793,"endTime":2241.153,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2241.258,"endTime":2244.828,"body":"yes, It's some super"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2241.258,"endTime":2244.828,"body":"bizarre calculation that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2244.828,"endTime":2246.778,"body":"rather than just calling"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2244.828,"endTime":2246.778,"body":"it a particular thickness,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2246.778,"endTime":2247.738,"body":"they call it one ounce."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2248.068,"endTime":2248.428,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2248.548,"endTime":2250.708,"body":"It always drives me crazy."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2251.713,"endTime":2253.333,"body":"I think if you"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2251.713,"endTime":2253.333,"body":"take that copper off, it"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2253.333,"endTime":2254.563,"body":"actually weighs an ounce."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2254.573,"endTime":2255.733,"body":"I don't, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2256.063,"endTime":2256.333,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2256.348,"endTime":2257.878,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2256.348,"endTime":2257.878,"body":"my understanding too."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2257.998,"endTime":2259.138,"body":"Yeah, that's my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2257.998,"endTime":2259.138,"body":"understanding too."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2259.258,"endTime":2264.686,"body":"And, and when you're doing"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2259.258,"endTime":2264.686,"body":"this plating, so is the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2264.691,"endTime":2269.006,"body":"material that the film that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2264.691,"endTime":2269.006,"body":"is left on the pcb, is the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2269.006,"endTime":2270.476,"body":"copper attracted to that?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2270.476,"endTime":2272.456,"body":"Is that why it no."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2272.461,"endTime":2272.966,"body":"Opposite."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2273.341,"endTime":2273.551,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2273.551,"endTime":2277.528,"body":"So, so the, the film will"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2273.551,"endTime":2277.528,"body":"be again, if you, if it's"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2277.558,"endTime":2279.286,"body":"just a a one ounce board"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2279.561,"endTime":2280.171,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":". Dave","startTime":2280.306,"endTime":2283.426,"body":"It's gonna be like, like"},{"speaker":". Dave","startTime":2280.306,"endTime":2283.426,"body":"20 micron film cuz you're not"},{"speaker":". Dave","startTime":2283.426,"endTime":2287.265,"body":"plating more than more than"},{"speaker":". Dave","startTime":2283.426,"endTime":2287.265,"body":"20 microns onto the board"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2287.685,"endTime":2287.835,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2288.885,"endTime":2291.945,"body":"because you got,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2288.885,"endTime":2291.945,"body":"you got 17 half an ounce"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2291.95,"endTime":2293.115,"body":"of copper to start."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2293.73,"endTime":2294.34,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2294.42,"endTime":2294.74,"body":". Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2294.795,"endTime":2298.635,"body":"So you probably use a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2294.795,"endTime":2298.635,"body":"25 micron film to be honest."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2298.845,"endTime":2299.205,"body":"But"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2299.265,"endTime":2299.565,"body":"if it,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2299.67,"endTime":2301.62,"body":"So, for listeners"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2299.67,"endTime":2301.62,"body":"who don't know, normally in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2301.625,"endTime":2304.02,"body":"PCB fabrication, you, if you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2301.625,"endTime":2304.02,"body":"want a one ounce board, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2304.02,"endTime":2306.0,"body":"start with half ounce and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2304.02,"endTime":2306.0,"body":"you build up to one ounce."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2306.0,"endTime":2307.368,"body":"Just repeating that."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2307.368,"endTime":2310.038,"body":"Occasionally  you'll"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2307.368,"endTime":2310.038,"body":"build it  with a like half an"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2310.038,"endTime":2313.761,"body":"ounce a quarter of an ounce"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2310.038,"endTime":2313.761,"body":"or, or nine micron film if"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2313.766,"endTime":2315.471,"body":"you got really small tracks."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2316.041,"endTime":2321.831,"body":"But, but you are then, you're"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2316.041,"endTime":2321.831,"body":"then gonna plate copper into"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2325.191,"endTime":2328.711,"body":"that cavity where you've exposed"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2325.191,"endTime":2328.711,"body":"all your tracking, you've."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2329.511,"endTime":2332.971,"body":"Like a little trench if"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2329.511,"endTime":2332.971,"body":"you like, and you are"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2332.971,"endTime":2333.871,"body":"gonna put copper in there."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2335.576,"endTime":2336.066,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2336.541,"endTime":2339.481,"body":"so if, if you are"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2336.541,"endTime":2339.481,"body":"building a two ounce board,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2339.811,"endTime":2343.381,"body":"you're gonna be plating one"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2339.811,"endTime":2343.381,"body":"ounce of copper onto the top."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2343.386,"endTime":2345.361,"body":"So you need 40 micron film?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2346.066,"endTime":2349.096,"body":"So you're kind of,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2346.066,"endTime":2349.096,"body":"you're kind of filling the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2349.096,"endTime":2351.206,"body":"valleys with this process."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2351.391,"endTime":2351.691,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2352.246,"endTime":2352.736,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2353.121,"endTime":2353.146,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2353.176,"endTime":2356.836,"body":"so so you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2353.176,"endTime":2356.836,"body":"over plate it but too much"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2356.836,"endTime":2360.136,"body":"copper on cuz then it will"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2356.836,"endTime":2360.136,"body":"mushroom over the top and"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2360.196,"endTime":2361.636,"body":"trap, trap the filming"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2361.936,"endTime":2362.426,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2362.426,"endTime":2363.306,"body":"Yeah, that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2363.306,"endTime":2363.586,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2363.796,"endTime":2366.796,"body":"that film then then"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2363.796,"endTime":2366.796,"body":"does not get washed away"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2367.366,"endTime":2367.816,"body":"Right"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2368.116,"endTime":2370.066,"body":"through the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2368.116,"endTime":2370.066,"body":"film strip process."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2370.133,"endTime":2372.743,"body":"Will cause that's how you"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2370.133,"endTime":2372.743,"body":"call shorts on your board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2373.133,"endTime":2374.873,"body":"when you, when you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2373.133,"endTime":2374.873,"body":"put it through the film"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2374.873,"endTime":2379.283,"body":"strip process, isn't there"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2374.873,"endTime":2379.283,"body":"still copper underneath that?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2380.243,"endTime":2380.693,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2380.753,"endTime":2382.883,"body":"Okay, so then there's another"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2380.753,"endTime":2382.883,"body":"process to remove that."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2383.138,"endTime":2384.608,"body":"Yeah, be before."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2384.788,"endTime":2387.968,"body":"Before the film strip process,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2384.788,"endTime":2387.968,"body":"you put it through a tin plating"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2390.503,"endTime":2391.553,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2391.613,"endTime":2392.453,"body":"That's okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2392.453,"endTime":2393.743,"body":"So, okay, so hang on."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2393.788,"endTime":2395.948,"body":"and then that"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2393.788,"endTime":2395.948,"body":"becomes your etch system."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2396.263,"endTime":2399.661,"body":"your, your, your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2396.263,"endTime":2399.661,"body":"your film is the mountains."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2400.201,"endTime":2402.901,"body":"Your plating process is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2400.201,"endTime":2402.901,"body":"filling the valleys so that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2402.901,"endTime":2404.941,"body":"now the valleys are the same"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2402.901,"endTime":2404.941,"body":"height as the mountains."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2405.391,"endTime":2407.911,"body":"Then you're putting tin on."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2408.601,"endTime":2408.991,"body":"Top of the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2409.066,"endTime":2411.946,"body":"The on, on that copper"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2409.066,"endTime":2411.946,"body":"where the, the, basically"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2411.946,"endTime":2414.226,"body":"the valleys on the top of the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2411.946,"endTime":2414.226,"body":"valleys, you're putting tin"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2414.796,"endTime":2417.706,"body":"and then that's protecting"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2414.796,"endTime":2417.706,"body":"the valleys, and then"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2417.706,"endTime":2418.456,"body":"you're gonna wash away the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2418.831,"endTime":2421.051,"body":"so, so, so then you"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2418.831,"endTime":2421.051,"body":"wash away the mountings"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2421.516,"endTime":2421.726,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2421.951,"endTime":2429.151,"body":"and then you'll see your"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2421.951,"endTime":2429.151,"body":"outer layer image in tin, but"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2429.391,"endTime":2430.561,"body":"the rest of it all copper."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2430.831,"endTime":2433.301,"body":"And that's the, that's the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2430.831,"endTime":2433.301,"body":"copper that you then etch."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2435.346,"endTime":2435.496,"body":"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2437.806,"endTime":2439.976,"body":"And then, and then"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2437.806,"endTime":2439.976,"body":"you have to strip the tin"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2439.976,"endTime":2441.256,"body":"lead off the board, and then"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2441.256,"endTime":2442.466,"body":"you, and then you have copper."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2443.436,"endTime":2444.226,"body":"my goodness."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2444.231,"endTime":2444.556,"body":"This,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2445.376,"endTime":2445.796,"body":"But."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2446.056,"endTime":2450.871,"body":"it is such a, a it,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2446.056,"endTime":2450.871,"body":"it, it is such a, How do I,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2450.871,"endTime":2452.611,"body":"I, I can't think of a good"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2450.871,"endTime":2452.611,"body":"analogy for it, but you're,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2452.611,"endTime":2454.321,"body":"you're going back and forth"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2452.611,"endTime":2454.321,"body":"and back and forth and back"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2454.321,"endTime":2455.251,"body":"and forth so many times."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2455.251,"endTime":2458.311,"body":"That's where my brain always"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2455.251,"endTime":2458.311,"body":"mixes it up and, and why"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2458.311,"endTime":2460.741,"body":"I struggle to, to wrap my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2458.311,"endTime":2460.741,"body":"head around the process"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2460.741,"endTime":2461.791,"body":"to create these things."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2462.091,"endTime":2465.571,"body":"So, but that makes me wonder"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2462.091,"endTime":2465.571,"body":"though, we've been talking"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2465.571,"endTime":2466.801,"body":"about a one ounce board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2466.825,"endTime":2469.435,"body":"If, if you have a really small"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2466.825,"endTime":2469.435,"body":"track, like you were saying,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2469.435,"endTime":2473.815,"body":"if you had a two mill line"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2469.435,"endTime":2473.815,"body":"for some reason, Is it easier"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2473.815,"endTime":2477.475,"body":"to do a half ounce board"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2473.815,"endTime":2477.475,"body":"than it is a one ounce board"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2477.475,"endTime":2480.175,"body":"when you have really thin"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2477.475,"endTime":2480.175,"body":"lines, or is it no different?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2480.97,"endTime":2485.74,"body":"I've never built"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2480.97,"endTime":2485.74,"body":"anything below 3000 personally."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2486.535,"endTime":2490.045,"body":"When you build, when"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2486.535,"endTime":2490.045,"body":"you build three or"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2490.045,"endTime":2491.275,"body":"three mill tracking gap,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2491.875,"endTime":2492.175,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2494.395,"endTime":2499.585,"body":"you have to have a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2494.395,"endTime":2499.585,"body":"maximum, like one ounce,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2499.585,"endTime":2500.545,"body":"a maximum, one ounce."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2500.855,"endTime":2503.245,"body":"If you build it, if you"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2500.855,"endTime":2503.245,"body":"build 3000 tracking gap"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2503.245,"endTime":2506.575,"body":"on, on an ounce layer"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2503.245,"endTime":2506.575,"body":"with one ounce copper,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2507.235,"endTime":2509.035,"body":"then you do extreme well."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2509.065,"endTime":2511.855,"body":"But, but you have to"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2509.065,"endTime":2511.855,"body":"start with nine micro."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2512.91,"endTime":2513.025,"body":"okay?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2513.415,"endTime":2515.545,"body":"So you only"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2513.415,"endTime":2515.545,"body":"etching nine microns"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2515.845,"endTime":2516.265,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2516.685,"endTime":2520.644,"body":"because, for example"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2516.685,"endTime":2520.644,"body":"on two ounce copper, the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2520.644,"endTime":2524.944,"body":"reason why you can't, you"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2520.644,"endTime":2524.944,"body":"can't build a four thou"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2524.994,"endTime":2526.194,"body":"track on two ounce copper."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2526.194,"endTime":2530.904,"body":"Copper is because the, the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2526.194,"endTime":2530.904,"body":"track is then becoming you."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2530.904,"endTime":2532.374,"body":"You, you're getting"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2530.904,"endTime":2532.374,"body":"tower blocks."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2532.974,"endTime":2533.574,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2533.694,"endTime":2534.114,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2534.129,"endTime":2537.939,"body":"So that the tracks"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2534.129,"endTime":2537.939,"body":"become unstable and you can"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2537.939,"endTime":2539.379,"body":"just brush them off the board"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2539.664,"endTime":2540.174,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2540.234,"endTime":2540.894,"body":"Holy moly."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2541.449,"endTime":2543.579,"body":"cause they just"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2541.449,"endTime":2543.579,"body":"collapse on each other."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2543.979,"endTime":2545.139,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2545.439,"endTime":2547.329,"body":"It's like building a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2545.439,"endTime":2547.329,"body":"Lego tower too tall."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2547.389,"endTime":2547.689,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2548.529,"endTime":2549.819,"body":"It sat Jenga."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2550.539,"endTime":2550.989,"body":"Jenga."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2551.049,"endTime":2551.439,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2552.129,"endTime":2552.519,"body":"Jenga."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2552.729,"endTime":2556.978,"body":"Did I tell you I built a like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2552.729,"endTime":2556.978,"body":"a adult height Jenga set, like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2556.978,"endTime":2560.848,"body":"a lot of two by fours, this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2556.978,"endTime":2560.848,"body":"massive, massive Jenga set."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2561.358,"endTime":2562.678,"body":"I will never do that again."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2562.798,"endTime":2563.278,"body":"That took."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2564.088,"endTime":2567.208,"body":"I think I spent like 40 hours"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2564.088,"endTime":2567.208,"body":"making this stupid thing"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2567.208,"endTime":2569.128,"body":"and I made all different"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2567.208,"endTime":2569.128,"body":"colors and everything."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2569.128,"endTime":2570.988,"body":"So when we go camping, all"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2569.128,"endTime":2570.988,"body":"the kids get to play with it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2570.988,"endTime":2571.618,"body":"Everybody loves it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2571.888,"endTime":2573.718,"body":"But I will spend the money."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2573.778,"endTime":2575.368,"body":"Don't try to build one"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2573.778,"endTime":2575.368,"body":"of those things yourself."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2575.373,"endTime":2575.908,"body":"It's crazy."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2578.233,"endTime":2579.673,"body":"Yeah, cause you gotta"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2578.233,"endTime":2579.673,"body":"make, you gotta make them"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2579.673,"endTime":2581.773,"body":"all different thicknesses"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2579.673,"endTime":2581.773,"body":"and slightly different so"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2581.773,"endTime":2582.883,"body":"you can slide them out."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2583.153,"endTime":2586.573,"body":"Well, I, I sanded them"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2583.153,"endTime":2586.573,"body":"all so that they, they were all"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2586.573,"endTime":2589.213,"body":"irregular, which, which added"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2586.573,"endTime":2589.213,"body":"to the game, you know, and,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2589.243,"endTime":2592.811,"body":"and the sanding, the amount"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2589.243,"endTime":2592.811,"body":"of sanding pads I went through"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2592.811,"endTime":2595.781,"body":"and I broke my rotary sander"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2592.811,"endTime":2595.781,"body":"and I was like, oh my gosh."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2595.781,"endTime":2600.056,"body":"It was never, ever, ever, I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2595.781,"endTime":2600.056,"body":"just gonna, if, if, if, I ever"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2600.056,"endTime":2601.556,"body":"lose it and I want one again."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2601.556,"endTime":2602.156,"body":"I'm just buying it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2602.156,"endTime":2603.536,"body":"I'm never building one"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2602.156,"endTime":2603.536,"body":"of those things again."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2604.016,"endTime":2606.146,"body":"But I had, I had taken"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2604.016,"endTime":2606.146,"body":"apart this workbench I had"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2606.146,"endTime":2607.046,"body":"built outta two by fours."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2607.046,"endTime":2608.276,"body":"I'm like, oh, I got all"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2607.046,"endTime":2608.276,"body":"these two by four s."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2608.281,"endTime":2609.416,"body":"I'll build the giant Jen set."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2609.416,"endTime":2610.466,"body":"No, no bad idea."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2610.556,"endTime":2612.146,"body":"This is what the listeners"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2610.556,"endTime":2612.146,"body":"tune in for, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2612.266,"endTime":2614.654,"body":"Chris Then's special"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2612.266,"endTime":2614.654,"body":"special camping projects."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2614.704,"endTime":2616.534,"body":"So that, that's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2614.704,"endTime":2616.534,"body":"fascinating to me though,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2616.564,"endTime":2617.822,"body":"because we actually had."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2617.881,"endTime":2618.631,"body":"Total coincidence."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2618.631,"endTime":2620.821,"body":"But the customer I was telling"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2618.631,"endTime":2620.821,"body":"you about earlier where he had"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2620.821,"endTime":2624.328,"body":"this motor control chip that was"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2620.821,"endTime":2624.328,"body":"overheating he needed the extra"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2624.328,"endTime":2626.338,"body":"copper because he's pushing a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2624.328,"endTime":2626.338,"body":"lot of power through the board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2626.338,"endTime":2628.378,"body":"So he needed a two ounce"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2626.338,"endTime":2628.378,"body":"board, but he designed"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2628.383,"endTime":2629.278,"body":"it for a one ounce board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2629.278,"endTime":2632.518,"body":"So all the track gaps and widths"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2629.278,"endTime":2632.518,"body":"and everything were really only"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2632.518,"endTime":2636.186,"body":"robust and had high yield on if"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2632.518,"endTime":2636.186,"body":"it had been a one ounce design."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2636.486,"endTime":2638.496,"body":"But because it was a two"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2636.486,"endTime":2638.496,"body":"ounce and he requested two"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2638.501,"endTime":2639.906,"body":"ounce, we could get it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2641.181,"endTime":2644.476,"body":"Our PCB supplier would"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2641.181,"endTime":2644.476,"body":"send us all these X outs."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2644.476,"endTime":2647.326,"body":"We would, you know, we'd"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2644.476,"endTime":2647.326,"body":"have, we'd, we'd, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2647.326,"endTime":2650.386,"body":"if we, if we got a 500"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2647.326,"endTime":2650.386,"body":"of 'em, we, we would get"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2650.482,"endTime":2651.502,"body":"you know, a two up panel."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2651.772,"endTime":2655.271,"body":"So normally you'd expect"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2651.772,"endTime":2655.271,"body":"250 panels, but we'd end up"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2655.271,"endTime":2658.271,"body":"with like 400 panels cuz so"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2655.271,"endTime":2658.271,"body":"many of them were X outs cuz"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2658.271,"endTime":2659.051,"body":"they just couldn't do it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2659.141,"endTime":2663.101,"body":"And it, and I, I'm not sure"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2659.141,"endTime":2663.101,"body":"why that was the case, but"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2663.101,"endTime":2666.251,"body":"anyway, and his new design,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2663.101,"endTime":2666.251,"body":"he still needs a two ounce"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2666.251,"endTime":2668.741,"body":"copper and he designed this,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2666.251,"endTime":2668.741,"body":"this time, he designed it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2669.986,"endTime":2673.046,"body":"Two ounce copper process"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2669.986,"endTime":2673.046,"body":"and much better results,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2673.046,"endTime":2675.386,"body":"which I think, if, correct"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2673.046,"endTime":2675.386,"body":"me if I'm wrong, Dave,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2675.386,"endTime":2676.526,"body":"but that's an eight mil"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2676.976,"endTime":2678.026,"body":"Yes, yes."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2678.826,"endTime":2678.941,"body":".Yep."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2679.661,"endTime":2679.961,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2680.036,"endTime":2683.037,"body":"So if you need that extra"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2680.036,"endTime":2683.037,"body":"copper for power requirements"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2683.037,"endTime":2684.147,"body":"or whatever, go eight mil."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2685.137,"endTime":2685.437,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2686.547,"endTime":2686.697,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2686.797,"endTime":2690.952,"body":"So, if you're doing a if you're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2686.797,"endTime":2690.952,"body":"doing a three mil track or"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2690.952,"endTime":2695.032,"body":"four mil tracking gap, you, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2690.952,"endTime":2695.032,"body":"wanna consider the fact that you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2695.032,"endTime":2698.302,"body":"might only be able to do a half"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2695.032,"endTime":2698.302,"body":"ounce copper board or a three"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2698.302,"endTime":2699.532,"body":"quarter ounce copper board."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2699.967,"endTime":2700.237,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2700.323,"endTime":2702.123,"body":"It might be difficult"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2700.323,"endTime":2702.123,"body":"to do a one ounce copper"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2702.123,"endTime":2703.653,"body":"board with, with that tiny."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2705.198,"endTime":2710.268,"body":"a, a good PCB fab"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2705.198,"endTime":2710.268,"body":"will be able to do around"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2710.658,"endTime":2716.078,"body":"three, three and a half mill"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2710.658,"endTime":2716.078,"body":"tracks and gaps on one ounce"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2716.463,"endTime":2717.113,"body":"they will."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2717.113,"endTime":2717.513,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2718.188,"endTime":2718.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2718.445,"endTime":2720.635,"body":"You go any longer than that,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2718.445,"endTime":2720.635,"body":"they probably won't make it."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2720.935,"endTime":2722.635,"body":"Like they just won't"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2720.935,"endTime":2722.635,"body":"be able to do it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2722.96,"endTime":2723.83,"body":"yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2724.205,"endTime":2724.655,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2724.67,"endTime":2724.91,"body":"know."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2725.745,"endTime":2728.903,"body":"Our PCB fab we use"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2725.745,"endTime":2728.903,"body":"in China, they've posted"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2728.903,"endTime":2731.303,"body":"on their website just"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2728.903,"endTime":2731.303,"body":"recently, they've actually"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2731.303,"endTime":2732.842,"body":"made two mill tracking gap"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2733.832,"endTime":2734.492,"body":"board recently."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2734.492,"endTime":2737.672,"body":"So they, they're, they're"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2734.492,"endTime":2737.672,"body":"pushing to get down that far."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2738.137,"endTime":2738.437,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2738.467,"endTime":2738.947,"body":"Very nice."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2738.947,"endTime":2739.787,"body":"They've been a good supplier."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2739.787,"endTime":2741.857,"body":"You talk about our new"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2739.787,"endTime":2741.857,"body":"supplier or our, our, the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2741.857,"endTime":2742.577,"body":"one we've been using for"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2742.577,"endTime":2744.047,"body":"I don't wanna be"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2742.577,"endTime":2744.047,"body":"been using for a while."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2744.157,"endTime":2744.647,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2744.797,"endTime":2745.157,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2745.337,"endTime":2746.297,"body":"They've been great to us."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2746.297,"endTime":2748.367,"body":"They, we, they've really"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2746.297,"endTime":2748.367,"body":"grown along with us."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2748.434,"endTime":2749.632,"body":"It's been fun to watch them and."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2750.202,"endTime":2750.862,"body":"Good team there."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2750.862,"endTime":2752.962,"body":"Good, good Folks like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2750.862,"endTime":2752.962,"body":"working with them."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2753.024,"endTime":2754.974,"body":"It's like anything, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2753.024,"endTime":2754.974,"body":"it doesn't matter where you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2754.974,"endTime":2757.524,"body":"are in the world, you can be a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2754.974,"endTime":2757.524,"body":"good shop or a bad shop and we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2757.524,"endTime":2758.604,"body":"happen to have found a good one."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2758.609,"endTime":2760.414,"body":"So works out nice."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2760.414,"endTime":2762.094,"body":"Alright, so I think,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2760.414,"endTime":2762.094,"body":"I think I get it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2762.604,"endTime":2764.944,"body":"Is there anything we're missing"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2762.604,"endTime":2764.944,"body":"on the outer layer production?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2765.409,"endTime":2768.379,"body":"No, you should have,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2765.409,"endTime":2768.379,"body":"once you strip the tin off,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2768.529,"endTime":2773.509,"body":"you should have a, a nice"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2768.529,"endTime":2773.509,"body":"and etched copper strip."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2773.509,"endTime":2776.119,"body":"The film, you'll have a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2773.509,"endTime":2776.119,"body":"nice, nice, shiny outer"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2778.229,"endTime":2779.479,"body":"layer plated board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2779.599,"endTime":2780.529,"body":"What gets stripped first?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2780.529,"endTime":2781.819,"body":"The film or the, or the tin."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2781.89,"endTime":2783.15,"body":"The film gets"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2781.89,"endTime":2783.15,"body":"straight first."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2784.23,"endTime":2786.63,"body":"then he gets etched and"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2784.23,"endTime":2786.63,"body":"then he strip the tin"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2787.68,"endTime":2788.13,"body":"Oh, boy."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2788.91,"endTime":2790.92,"body":"See, I told you, I warned"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2788.91,"endTime":2790.92,"body":"you this was gonna be"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2790.92,"endTime":2793.05,"body":"too much, Dave, because"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2790.92,"endTime":2793.05,"body":"now , I warned you."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2793.26,"endTime":2795.75,"body":"I warned you this is gonna"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2793.26,"endTime":2795.75,"body":"be too much because now I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2795.75,"endTime":2799.695,"body":"have questions about, I have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2795.75,"endTime":2799.695,"body":"questions about, The etch"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2799.785,"endTime":2802.755,"body":"because I feel like etch is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2799.785,"endTime":2802.755,"body":"like, we should have like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2803.355,"endTime":2805.455,"body":"this PCBs are called etch."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2805.815,"endTime":2807.435,"body":"Like this is like a whole show."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2807.495,"endTime":2808.665,"body":"We could just talk about etch."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2808.73,"endTime":2809.22,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2809.715,"endTime":2810.915,"body":"All right,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2809.715,"endTime":2810.915,"body":"so we'll save that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2811.005,"endTime":2811.635,"body":"We'll save that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2811.695,"endTime":2812.445,"body":"Can we save that?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2813.065,"endTime":2814.665,"body":"etch actually is"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2813.065,"endTime":2814.665,"body":"probably the hardest thing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2815.145,"endTime":2816.465,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2816.525,"endTime":2818.385,"body":"We need to have a whole"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2816.525,"endTime":2818.385,"body":"episode just on Etch."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2818.535,"endTime":2818.895,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2819.015,"endTime":2820.135,"body":"I don't know much about it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2820.595,"endTime":2820.945,"body":"Ah,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2821.505,"endTime":2822.195,"body":"It won't be long."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2822.435,"endTime":2823.515,"body":"I'm not a chemist."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2824.895,"endTime":2825.435,"body":"It's okay."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2825.675,"endTime":2826.665,"body":"I know the fundamentals."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2827.46,"endTime":2829.05,"body":"Well, we'll talk"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2827.46,"endTime":2829.05,"body":"about the fundamentals cuz"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2829.05,"endTime":2831.54,"body":"your, your fundamentals are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2829.05,"endTime":2831.54,"body":"gonna be like my details,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2831.6,"endTime":2832.14,"body":"you know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2832.35,"endTime":2833.67,"body":"That's how little"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2832.35,"endTime":2833.67,"body":"I know about it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2833.67,"endTime":2834.553,"body":"So, well, that's great."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2835.453,"endTime":2835.843,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2835.873,"endTime":2841.843,"body":"I, I, I, I, I love having"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2835.873,"endTime":2841.843,"body":"you on Dave, because it just,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2841.873,"endTime":2844.703,"body":"every time we talk about these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2841.873,"endTime":2844.703,"body":"things, it blows my mind and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2844.963,"endTime":2847.963,"body":"I continue to learn more and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2844.963,"endTime":2847.963,"body":"more, and I, and it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2848.263,"endTime":2850.033,"body":"it really is so valuable."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2850.393,"endTime":2855.808,"body":"Once I understood a little bit"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2850.393,"endTime":2855.808,"body":"about the pcb design process"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2856.378,"endTime":2859.168,"body":"and learned a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2856.378,"endTime":2859.168,"body":"about the PCB fab process,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2859.408,"endTime":2865.288,"body":"it made me a much better PCB"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2859.408,"endTime":2865.288,"body":"assembler because I finally"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2865.293,"endTime":2870.958,"body":"understood why things happen"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2865.293,"endTime":2870.958,"body":"in certain ways, and I was"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2870.958,"endTime":2875.208,"body":"able to identify problems in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2870.958,"endTime":2875.208,"body":"the process that weren't in my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2875.213,"endTime":2878.248,"body":"control, but I could go back"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2875.213,"endTime":2878.248,"body":"to the designer and say, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2878.253,"endTime":2881.218,"body":"I know this is what you did"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2878.253,"endTime":2881.218,"body":"here, and you can change it this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2881.218,"endTime":2882.388,"body":"way and make my life easier."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2882.943,"endTime":2885.253,"body":"And I could go back to the fab"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2882.943,"endTime":2885.253,"body":"and be like, I know what you did"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2885.253,"endTime":2887.623,"body":"here, but I need you to change"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2885.253,"endTime":2887.623,"body":"it to make my life easier."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2887.923,"endTime":2888.793,"body":"It's all about me, Dave."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2888.823,"endTime":2890.503,"body":"It's all about me and my, my"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2890.572,"endTime":2893.512,"body":"I'm exactly the same,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2890.572,"endTime":2893.512,"body":"but before I joined CircuitHub,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2894.072,"endTime":2899.242,"body":"I, I was engineering PCBs with"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2894.072,"endTime":2899.242,"body":"no idea about what components"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2899.242,"endTime":2900.082,"body":"were going on the board."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2900.232,"endTime":2901.682,"body":"I didn't, I didn't care."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2902.347,"endTime":2902.587,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2902.587,"endTime":2903.037,"body":"Didn't matter"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2903.112,"endTime":2904.282,"body":"I got care in the world."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2904.282,"endTime":2905.402,"body":"I just built the boards."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2905.482,"endTime":2909.052,"body":"We talk about having"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2905.482,"endTime":2909.052,"body":"solder dams boards, and"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2909.382,"endTime":2913.312,"body":"we have discussions about"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2909.382,"endTime":2913.312,"body":"solsolderms weekly, I guess"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2913.657,"endTime":2914.107,"body":"Dave."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2914.137,"endTime":2916.637,"body":"Dave, you and I probably have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2914.137,"endTime":2916.637,"body":"more discussions on solder"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2916.657,"endTime":2918.787,"body":"dams than my wife and I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2916.657,"endTime":2918.787,"body":"have about discussions about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2918.787,"endTime":2919.627,"body":"what were having for dinner."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2919.717,"endTime":2922.627,"body":"I mean, it is just, we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2919.717,"endTime":2922.627,"body":"talk about this endlessly."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2923.302,"endTime":2926.752,"body":"But, but, but now I,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2923.302,"endTime":2926.752,"body":"I now understand some of"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2926.752,"endTime":2929.182,"body":"the components that going"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2926.752,"endTime":2929.182,"body":"the boards, and I'm looking,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2929.187,"endTime":2932.182,"body":"I'm looking at data sheets"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2929.187,"endTime":2932.182,"body":"for boards and what the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2932.182,"endTime":2933.472,"body":"minimum recommended pads are."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2933.532,"endTime":2937.582,"body":"And if a customer's put a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2933.532,"endTime":2937.582,"body":"four pad on and the minimum"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2937.582,"endTime":2943.012,"body":"recommended pads like 0.25,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2937.582,"endTime":2943.012,"body":"I'm, I'm going, well, I can"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2943.012,"endTime":2944.062,"body":"show you a bit off that then"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2944.522,"endTime":2946.372,"body":"I, I can show you that"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2944.522,"endTime":2946.372,"body":"a little bit and, and"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2946.372,"endTime":2947.302,"body":"that will give us a down."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2947.902,"endTime":2948.532,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2949.312,"endTime":2950.242,"body":"Thank you very much for those."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2950.322,"endTime":2951.742,"body":"We, we do appreciate the solder"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2952.042,"endTime":2952.882,"body":"Yeah, so like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2952.972,"endTime":2954.892,"body":"the assembly very easy."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2955.432,"endTime":2958.252,"body":"it must be a better, a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2955.432,"endTime":2958.252,"body":"better cam engineer as well."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2958.642,"endTime":2960.472,"body":"Knowing a bit more about,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2958.642,"endTime":2960.472,"body":"about the components."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2960.612,"endTime":2961.282,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2962.047,"endTime":2962.527,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2962.947,"endTime":2963.697,"body":"Super cool."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2963.727,"endTime":2964.207,"body":"Super cool."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2964.207,"endTime":2964.657,"body":"I love it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2964.747,"endTime":2967.714,"body":"I, this is, this is this is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2964.747,"endTime":2967.714,"body":"a cool collaboration that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2967.714,"endTime":2969.934,"body":"Worthington has had with"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2967.714,"endTime":2969.934,"body":"CircuitHub and, and bringing"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2969.934,"endTime":2973.915,"body":"you in and, and and doing some"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2969.934,"endTime":2973.915,"body":"of our own in-house design"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2973.915,"endTime":2977.635,"body":"has helped as well, albeit"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2973.915,"endTime":2977.635,"body":"very limited in house design,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2977.635,"endTime":2979.277,"body":"but does help a little bit."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2979.303,"endTime":2979.723,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2980.053,"endTime":2980.443,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2981.283,"endTime":2982.933,"body":"Are we ready for my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2981.283,"endTime":2982.933,"body":"favorite part of the show?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":2983.583,"endTime":2984.713,"body":"go on then."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2984.763,"endTime":2986.053,"body":"All right,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2984.763,"endTime":2986.053,"body":"let's do it, Melissa."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2986.503,"endTime":2987.103,"body":"Let's do it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2987.478,"endTime":2989.338,"body":"I know you, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2987.478,"endTime":2989.338,"body":"got one queued up for"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2989.413,"endTime":2991.753,"body":"I do, cuz I've been"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2989.413,"endTime":2991.753,"body":"encountering this several"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2991.753,"endTime":2993.193,"body":"times this past, past week."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2993.216,"endTime":2995.466,"body":"I got another"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2993.216,"endTime":2995.466,"body":"packaging one for us,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2995.496,"endTime":2997.716,"body":"cuz I know that's one of the."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2997.761,"endTime":2998.181,"body":"packaging."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2998.181,"endTime":2998.811,"body":"Pet peeve,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2998.886,"endTime":3002.391,"body":"of our favorites is"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2998.886,"endTime":3002.391,"body":"when you go to open, I don't"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3002.391,"endTime":3005.811,"body":"know, like any kind of like"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3002.391,"endTime":3005.811,"body":"mayonnaise or ketchup or like"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3006.171,"endTime":3011.541,"body":"any, any sort of a tube squeezy"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3006.171,"endTime":3011.541,"body":"like container that has the,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3012.051,"endTime":3015.351,"body":"that has the small opening and"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3012.051,"endTime":3015.351,"body":"they have that little white"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3015.621,"endTime":3021.501,"body":"protector, and then it has the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3015.621,"endTime":3021.501,"body":"little clear plastic tab that"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3021.501,"endTime":3024.321,"body":"always says like, you pull it"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3021.501,"endTime":3024.321,"body":"up and then like you pull that"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3024.321,"endTime":3026.421,"body":"to open and it never works."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3027.141,"endTime":3027.591,"body":"It never"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3027.591,"endTime":3031.881,"body":"works either it is just like"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3027.591,"endTime":3031.881,"body":"not strong enough, or maybe"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3031.881,"endTime":3033.981,"body":"your hands are slippery"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3031.881,"endTime":3033.981,"body":"and then you end up having"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3033.981,"endTime":3036.051,"body":"to just, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3036.051,"endTime":3038.721,"body":"I usually take, I usually get a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3036.051,"endTime":3038.721,"body":"knife and I just stab the whole"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3038.826,"endTime":3039.756,"body":"That's what"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3038.826,"endTime":3039.756,"body":"you end up doing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3039.756,"endTime":3040.086,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3040.536,"endTime":3041.526,"body":"Just cut the thing out."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3041.556,"endTime":3044.646,"body":"I know, I, I, well, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3041.556,"endTime":3044.646,"body":"because I think they started"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3044.646,"endTime":3048.156,"body":"out with just the, just,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3044.646,"endTime":3048.156,"body":"just the white film and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3048.161,"endTime":3049.296,"body":"everybody couldn't get it off."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3049.296,"endTime":3050.286,"body":"And they're like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3049.296,"endTime":3050.286,"body":"this thing sucks."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3050.286,"endTime":3051.816,"body":"And they're like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3050.286,"endTime":3051.816,"body":"we'll give you a little tab."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3052.326,"endTime":3053.946,"body":"And we all know tabs don't work."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3053.951,"endTime":3054.966,"body":"We've already talked about this."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3055.746,"endTime":3056.046,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3056.706,"endTime":3057.336,"body":"I don't mind."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3057.366,"endTime":3060.156,"body":"You know what, I think"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3057.366,"endTime":3060.156,"body":"it's heinz they give you,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3061.236,"endTime":3064.066,"body":"they give, they give you a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3061.236,"endTime":3064.066,"body":"little extra paper on the."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3064.791,"endTime":3066.981,"body":"That hangs over the edge"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3064.791,"endTime":3066.981,"body":"and that you can get your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3066.981,"endTime":3068.301,"body":"fingernail on those work pretty"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3068.571,"endTime":3069.591,"body":"Those work better."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3069.891,"endTime":3070.941,"body":"Yeah, those are better."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3071.991,"endTime":3077.588,"body":"You know what, I wonder if you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3071.991,"endTime":3077.588,"body":"know how like, glue gets easier"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3077.593,"endTime":3079.688,"body":"to take apart when it gets warm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3080.498,"endTime":3083.738,"body":"I wonder if you like run"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3080.498,"endTime":3083.738,"body":"that under some hot water"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3083.738,"endTime":3085.748,"body":"or something and then, and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3083.738,"endTime":3085.748,"body":"then maybe the tab will"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3085.753,"endTime":3087.638,"body":"work because then the glue"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3085.753,"endTime":3087.638,"body":"isn't quite as strong."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3088.478,"endTime":3088.928,"body":"I'm gonna try."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3089.828,"endTime":3091.028,"body":"Follow up future episode."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3091.028,"endTime":3092.198,"body":"I'll try that out next time."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3092.528,"endTime":3094.628,"body":"My poor wife is gonna be like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3092.528,"endTime":3094.628,"body":"opening a brand new thing at"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3094.628,"endTime":3098.588,"body":"ketchup and I'll be like, no, I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3094.628,"endTime":3098.588,"body":"need to try the hot water test"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3101.318,"endTime":3101.678,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3102.068,"endTime":3102.848,"body":"Amen to that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3103.148,"endTime":3106.448,"body":"You know, and it's like, let,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3103.148,"endTime":3106.448,"body":"let's say, let's say the hot"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3106.448,"endTime":3108.968,"body":"water test is successful,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3106.448,"endTime":3108.968,"body":"then how come they don't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3108.968,"endTime":3110.138,"body":"say, warm this up first?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3110.198,"endTime":3111.758,"body":"You know, why don't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3110.198,"endTime":3111.758,"body":"they just say, run this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3111.758,"endTime":3112.688,"body":"under hot water first."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3112.688,"endTime":3112.958,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3112.988,"endTime":3113.828,"body":"You could print on it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3113.888,"endTime":3115.628,"body":"They print on it cuz"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3113.888,"endTime":3115.628,"body":"it says pull here."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3115.808,"endTime":3117.548,"body":"They should say Run under hot."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3118.703,"endTime":3119.573,"body":"Then pull here."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3121.148,"endTime":3122.378,"body":"That's just"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3121.148,"endTime":3122.378,"body":"a lot of work though."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3125.063,"endTime":3125.573,"body":"This is true."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3126.023,"endTime":3127.673,"body":"Or maybe, maybe,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3128.258,"endTime":3129.368,"body":"wasting water."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3129.593,"endTime":3132.023,"body":"is this, refrigerated"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3129.593,"endTime":3132.023,"body":"before you, before you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3132.023,"endTime":3134.033,"body":"open it, or are you pulling"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3132.023,"endTime":3134.033,"body":"it out of a cupboard?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3135.788,"endTime":3137.588,"body":"I would say it's"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3135.788,"endTime":3137.588,"body":"usually out of cupboard"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3138.253,"endTime":3138.863,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3138.973,"endTime":3139.583,"body":". Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3139.773,"endTime":3140.383,"body":". Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3140.678,"endTime":3142.808,"body":"depending on who"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3140.678,"endTime":3142.808,"body":"has put away the groceries."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3145.773,"endTime":3147.215,"body":"Honey, why did"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3145.773,"endTime":3147.215,"body":"you put the steak in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3147.215,"endTime":3148.303,"body":"the silverware drawer?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3149.413,"endTime":3153.387,"body":"It was who was telling me?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3154.007,"endTime":3155.567,"body":"Oh, is a coworker of ours."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3155.687,"endTime":3158.015,"body":"He was telling me that he"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3155.687,"endTime":3158.015,"body":"visited a friend of his"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3158.02,"endTime":3163.715,"body":"in France and he had a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3158.02,"endTime":3163.715,"body":"roast beef in his cabinet."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3164.54,"endTime":3166.91,"body":"He cut off the mold that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3164.54,"endTime":3166.91,"body":"had grown on the roast"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3167.3,"endTime":3168.02,"body":"Oh no."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3168.26,"endTime":3168.86,"body":"Oh."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3169.01,"endTime":3169.37,"body":"it up."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3169.79,"endTime":3172.52,"body":"And he considered this to be"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3169.79,"endTime":3172.52,"body":"perfectly normal because the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3172.52,"endTime":3176.33,"body":"French just buy their, like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3172.52,"endTime":3176.33,"body":"their food each day rather"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3176.33,"endTime":3178.73,"body":"than like store it in giant"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3176.33,"endTime":3178.73,"body":"refrigerators like Americans do."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3179.12,"endTime":3181.79,"body":"And I'm thinking to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3179.12,"endTime":3181.79,"body":"myself, I think that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3181.79,"endTime":3182.66,"body":"might just be your friend"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3186.495,"endTime":3188.945,"body":"It has mold on it,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3186.495,"endTime":3188.945,"body":"then it has been out for"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3188.945,"endTime":3191.165,"body":"more than just a day in the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3191.165,"endTime":3191.825,"body":"first place."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3192.005,"endTime":3192.995,"body":"something I right there."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3193.325,"endTime":3193.685,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3193.685,"endTime":3195.125,"body":"Dave, is this a European thing?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3195.605,"endTime":3197.195,"body":"You guys keep your roast"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3195.605,"endTime":3197.195,"body":"beef in the cupboard?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3197.525,"endTime":3198.635,"body":"It's, it's all dry."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3198.635,"endTime":3200.105,"body":"That's, that's dry"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3198.635,"endTime":3200.105,"body":"cured, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3200.105,"endTime":3201.845,"body":"Dry cured for 30 days."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3202.475,"endTime":3204.245,"body":"Just, just, just"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3202.475,"endTime":3204.245,"body":"hung up and dried."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3204.545,"endTime":3207.725,"body":"I dunno about the mold part,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3204.545,"endTime":3207.725,"body":"eh, , I'm not sure about that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3209.225,"endTime":3209.895,"body":"Well, like, yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3209.9,"endTime":3212.345,"body":"I guess if you're buying a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3209.9,"endTime":3212.345,"body":"prosciutto, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3212.555,"endTime":3215.033,"body":"the prosciutto, they hang"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3212.555,"endTime":3215.033,"body":"up in the butcher, you know,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3215.273,"endTime":3217.943,"body":"Yeah, it, it,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3215.273,"endTime":3217.943,"body":"it's all dry, dry cured."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3217.943,"endTime":3223.953,"body":"But yeah, I'm not sure if"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3217.943,"endTime":3223.953,"body":"fat a mold, I mean like"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3223.958,"endTime":3225.833,"body":"what the cheese is mold."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3226.283,"endTime":3228.263,"body":"So they cheese."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3228.518,"endTime":3229.328,"body":"is moldy cheese."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3229.333,"endTime":3230.408,"body":"I love a good moldy"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3230.513,"endTime":3232.763,"body":"And the funniest thing"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3230.513,"endTime":3232.763,"body":"about buying cheese is they"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3232.763,"endTime":3235.643,"body":"wait right until the last"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3232.763,"endTime":3235.643,"body":"four weeks of its life before"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3235.648,"endTime":3238.403,"body":"they sell it, because it's"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3235.648,"endTime":3238.403,"body":"got used by daily on it."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3239.003,"endTime":3240.173,"body":"But it's, it's moldy."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3240.503,"endTime":3242.513,"body":"It's been maturing"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3240.503,"endTime":3242.513,"body":"for two years."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3243.103,"endTime":3243.953,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3244.133,"endTime":3244.553,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3245.033,"endTime":3245.633,"body":"Oh man."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3245.633,"endTime":3246.953,"body":"I love a good gonzo."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3247.073,"endTime":3247.463,"body":"Oh, man."},{"speaker":"See, it's, it's, it's 11","startTime":3247.523,"endTime":3251.153,"body":"59"},{"speaker":"See, it's, it's, it's 11","startTime":3247.523,"endTime":3251.153,"body":"AM which means it must"},{"speaker":"See, it's, it's, it's 11","startTime":3251.153,"endTime":3252.233,"body":"be Turkey sandwich time."},{"speaker":"See, it's, it's, it's 11","startTime":3252.233,"endTime":3254.213,"body":"And that's why I'm hungry"},{"speaker":"See, it's, it's, it's 11","startTime":3252.233,"endTime":3254.213,"body":"and I'm ready to eat."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3254.873,"endTime":3255.073,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3255.173,"endTime":3256.013,"body":"gotta wrap this up."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3256.373,"endTime":3257.153,"body":"Gotta wrap this up."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3257.393,"endTime":3258.593,"body":"Well, thank you very much, Dave."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3258.683,"endTime":3259.992,"body":"It's a pleasure as always."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3260.04,"endTime":3261.3,"body":"We look forward to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3260.04,"endTime":3261.3,"body":"having you back."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3261.45,"endTime":3263.67,"body":"What, what are we gonna talk"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3261.45,"endTime":3263.67,"body":"about in the next episode then?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3263.67,"endTime":3265.29,"body":"Just to, just to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3263.67,"endTime":3265.29,"body":"prime the listeners."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3265.353,"endTime":3268.686,"body":"We now gotta put a, a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3265.353,"endTime":3268.686,"body":"nice colorful coat in on the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3268.686,"endTime":3269.598,"body":"Oh, solder mask."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3269.928,"endTime":3269.988,"body":"US"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3270.708,"endTime":3272.028,"body":"So that's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3270.708,"endTime":3272.028,"body":"before the etch."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3272.878,"endTime":3273.648,"body":"it's been etched."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3274.128,"endTime":3275.568,"body":"No, no, no, no."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3275.658,"endTime":3277.308,"body":"We gotta have a, we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3275.658,"endTime":3277.308,"body":"gotta have an episode"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3277.308,"endTime":3278.368,"body":"where we get into Etch."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3278.538,"endTime":3281.118,"body":"It's, it's gone through,"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3278.538,"endTime":3281.118,"body":"it's gone through a, like"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3282.228,"endTime":3283.908,"body":"a strip, an X line already."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3283.998,"endTime":3286.639,"body":"So it's, it's, it's gone"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3283.998,"endTime":3286.639,"body":"through, it's gone through"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3286.644,"endTime":3290.508,"body":"a conveyor, taking the film"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3286.644,"endTime":3290.508,"body":"off, etched it, taking the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3290.508,"endTime":3293.838,"body":"tin lead off, and at the"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3290.508,"endTime":3293.838,"body":"end of the line you got a"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3293.843,"endTime":3295.158,"body":"nice finished outer line"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3295.638,"endTime":3297.618,"body":"Chris is saying"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3295.638,"endTime":3297.618,"body":"he wants to talk more"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3297.663,"endTime":3299.073,"body":"how long have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3297.663,"endTime":3299.073,"body":"we worked together?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3299.223,"endTime":3302.373,"body":"Do you, do you think that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3299.223,"endTime":3302.373,"body":"that is satisfactory?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3302.373,"endTime":3303.663,"body":"You have any idea?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3303.813,"endTime":3304.443,"body":"No way."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3304.503,"endTime":3306.603,"body":"I, I have so many questions."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3306.873,"endTime":3307.953,"body":"I have so many questions."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3307.953,"endTime":3308.913,"body":"We'll, we'll get into that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3308.913,"endTime":3311.103,"body":"Everything you just said"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3308.913,"endTime":3311.103,"body":"in 30 seconds, we'll, we'll"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3311.103,"endTime":3312.933,"body":"get into in 30 minutes"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3311.103,"endTime":3312.933,"body":"on the next episode."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3313.533,"endTime":3313.803,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3313.803,"endTime":3314.103,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3314.673,"endTime":3315.033,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3315.183,"endTime":3318.603,"body":"And then, and"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3315.183,"endTime":3318.603,"body":"then we put some pretty"},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3318.603,"endTime":3319.503,"body":"colors on the outside."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3320.148,"endTime":3321.468,"body":"Yeah, then we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3320.148,"endTime":3321.468,"body":"put pretty colors."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3321.498,"endTime":3323.868,"body":"I'm actually super excited"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3321.498,"endTime":3323.868,"body":"to talk about that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3323.868,"endTime":3327.078,"body":"We'll, we'll get into that cuz"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3323.868,"endTime":3327.078,"body":"that, that affects my world."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3327.078,"endTime":3329.758,"body":"And then it also affects our"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3327.078,"endTime":3329.758,"body":"customers world quite a bit."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3329.758,"endTime":3332.082,"body":"And I think a lot of, a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3329.758,"endTime":3332.082,"body":"lot of listeners would be"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3332.082,"endTime":3334.332,"body":"surprised to hear what an"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3332.082,"endTime":3334.332,"body":"impact that has on assembly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3334.337,"endTime":3336.771,"body":"So, pleasures always Melissa,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3334.337,"endTime":3336.771,"body":"pleasures always Dave."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3336.839,"endTime":3340.529,"body":"As usual, we really, really"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3336.839,"endTime":3340.529,"body":"appreciate the listeners listen."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3341.804,"endTime":3344.204,"body":"recommending and reviewing and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3341.804,"endTime":3344.204,"body":"all that kind of good stuff."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3344.204,"endTime":3346.604,"body":"And please, please, please,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3344.204,"endTime":3346.604,"body":"as always, let your friends"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3346.604,"endTime":3347.234,"body":"know about the show."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3347.234,"endTime":3349.184,"body":"If you've enjoyed it and you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3347.234,"endTime":3349.184,"body":"think somebody else you work"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3349.189,"endTime":3352.424,"body":"with or in a similar field"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3349.189,"endTime":3352.424,"body":"might be interested to hear"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3352.424,"endTime":3354.474,"body":"about it, we would love to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3352.424,"endTime":3354.474,"body":"have them as a listener."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3354.474,"endTime":3357.489,"body":"And please do continue to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3354.474,"endTime":3357.489,"body":"write in with questions"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3357.549,"endTime":3359.371,"body":"and episode ideas."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3359.431,"endTime":3362.941,"body":"And if you were unsatisfied"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3359.431,"endTime":3362.941,"body":"with Dave's response about the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3362.941,"endTime":3365.612,"body":"processes, let us know because"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3362.941,"endTime":3365.612,"body":"I don't wanna be the only."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3366.012,"endTime":3368.532,"body":"So , you can email us."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3368.629,"endTime":3372.119,"body":"Contact pick place podcast.com."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3372.119,"endTime":3376.438,"body":"I am at W Assembly on Twitter,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3372.119,"endTime":3376.438,"body":"and Melissa and her crew are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3376.438,"endTime":3377.908,"body":"at CircuitHub on Twitter."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3378.898,"endTime":3381.028,"body":"Thanks for listening"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3378.898,"endTime":3381.028,"body":"to the Pick Place podcast."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3381.028,"endTime":3383.488,"body":"If you like what you heard,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3381.028,"endTime":3383.488,"body":"consider following us in"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3383.488,"endTime":3386.308,"body":"your favorite podcast app,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3383.488,"endTime":3386.308,"body":"and please leave us a review"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3386.308,"endTime":3389.368,"body":"on Apple Podcast or wherever"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3386.308,"endTime":3389.368,"body":"you get your podcast from."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3390.768,"endTime":3392.068,"body":"Thanks very"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3390.768,"endTime":3392.068,"body":"much everybody."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3394.018,"endTime":3394.318,"body":"Thanks Dave."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3395.428,"endTime":3396.028,"body":"Thanks, Dave."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3396.033,"endTime":3396.873,"body":"Great stuff."},{"speaker":"Dave","startTime":3396.878,"endTime":3397.213,"body":"Cheers."}]}