{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":9.03,"endTime":13.41,"body":"Welcome to the Pick, Place,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":9.03,"endTime":13.41,"body":"Podcast, the show where we talk"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":13.41,"endTime":16.05,"body":"and everything related to getting"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":13.41,"endTime":16.05,"body":"a circuit board into the world."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":16.23,"endTime":17.85,"body":"This is Chris Denney with Worthington,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":18.39,"endTime":20.52,"body":"and this is Melissa"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":18.39,"endTime":20.52,"body":"Hough with CircuitHub"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":21.33,"endTime":22.3,"body":"Welcome back Melissa"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":22.59,"endTime":23.67,"body":"welcome back, melissa."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":24.57,"endTime":31.47,"body":"As, uh, as, as you know, things have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":24.57,"endTime":31.47,"body":"been crazy again, we're dealing with"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":31.47,"endTime":38.37,"body":"If you're listening to this and we're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":31.47,"endTime":38.37,"body":"going to publish this on Monday,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":38.37,"endTime":41.84,"body":"apparently nothing's going to change"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":38.37,"endTime":41.84,"body":"for like a year and a half, actually"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":41.86,"endTime":45.54,"body":"kind of funny story about that"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":41.86,"endTime":45.54,"body":"and well all the shortages in the world."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":45.54,"endTime":49.2,"body":"So I just came back from"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":45.54,"endTime":49.2,"body":"California, visiting my family."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":49.26,"endTime":54.03,"body":"And when I was there, I was going on this"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":49.26,"endTime":54.03,"body":"hike and, uh, you could see the ocean."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":54.955,"endTime":59.615,"body":"In Southern California, um, near"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":54.955,"endTime":59.615,"body":"Huntington beach, but you could"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":59.855,"endTime":60.575,"body":"Don't be creepy."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":61.685,"endTime":62.465,"body":"Don't be creepy?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":62.615,"endTime":62.825,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":62.825,"endTime":63.185,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":63.245,"endTime":65.795,"body":"Like when you say, wait, where"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":63.245,"endTime":65.795,"body":"you're from, you're supposed"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":65.795,"endTime":67.145,"body":"So nobody likes stocks down."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":67.145,"endTime":69.755,"body":"Like, oh, I'm going to go for a hike"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":67.145,"endTime":69.755,"body":"in Huntington beach to find Melissa,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":70.285,"endTime":74.195,"body":"I don't actually live in"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":70.285,"endTime":74.195,"body":"Huntington beach, but you can go there and"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":76.535,"endTime":82.535,"body":"Um, but you could see all"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":76.535,"endTime":82.535,"body":"of the boats that just lined"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":82.565,"endTime":82.955,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":83.345,"endTime":83.645,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":83.645,"endTime":86.015,"body":"So many of them just lined up."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":86.195,"endTime":92.585,"body":"So there might be some parts on"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":86.195,"endTime":92.585,"body":"there that you're waiting for or"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":93.335,"endTime":95.495,"body":"The craziest, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":93.335,"endTime":95.495,"body":"just the craziest thing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":96.215,"endTime":102.005,"body":"For example, the reason that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":96.215,"endTime":102.005,"body":"part shortage makes our job more"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":102.005,"endTime":104.525,"body":"like, can you get the part let's just"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":102.005,"endTime":104.525,"body":"assume we can get the part, right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":105.664,"endTime":114.679,"body":"Not being able to source all of the parts"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":105.664,"endTime":114.679,"body":"from one or two vendors just significantly"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":114.679,"endTime":119.81,"body":"buy the amount of time it takes to receive"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":114.679,"endTime":119.81,"body":"the amount of time it takes to kit."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":120.08,"endTime":122.39,"body":"Like it just compounds all these problems."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":122.39,"endTime":126.259,"body":"And then the opportunity for error,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":122.39,"endTime":126.259,"body":"when, when are the parts going to arrive?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":126.27,"endTime":129.62,"body":"Like everything came from Digi-Key and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":126.27,"endTime":129.62,"body":"two days and Mouser and three days."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":129.62,"endTime":133.85,"body":"But then these guys took six days"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":129.62,"endTime":133.85,"body":"and it's like, it's just all these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":133.85,"endTime":134.359,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":134.9,"endTime":139.46,"body":"Adding more pieces to the puzzle"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":134.9,"endTime":139.46,"body":"and adding more unpredictability and yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":140.87,"endTime":143.18,"body":"And that's that's even"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":140.87,"endTime":143.18,"body":"if you can get the parts, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":143.18,"endTime":145.82,"body":"Like, so just let's just"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":143.18,"endTime":145.82,"body":"assume we can get them."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":146.0,"endTime":149.39,"body":"It's it's still madness, but whatever"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":146.0,"endTime":149.39,"body":"that's what makes the job fun."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":149.39,"endTime":151.04,"body":"I guess, if it was easy,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":149.39,"endTime":151.04,"body":"everybody would do it."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":151.79,"endTime":154.04,"body":"One, one more"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":151.79,"endTime":154.04,"body":"random fact that I learned."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":154.04,"endTime":160.91,"body":"So my cousin works in product design"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":154.04,"endTime":160.91,"body":"and she was telling me how a shipping"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":160.94,"endTime":165.5,"body":"$2,000 and now a shipping container,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":160.94,"endTime":165.5,"body":"which you can't even really get right now."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":166.609,"endTime":168.7,"body":"The same shipping container costs, 14,000."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":170.99,"endTime":172.55,"body":"Yeah, my goodness."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":172.97,"endTime":177.65,"body":"It's funny because my dad and I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":172.97,"endTime":177.65,"body":"were thinking about building a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":178.46,"endTime":181.43,"body":"I guess we might want to wait on"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":178.46,"endTime":181.43,"body":"that one for awhile, you know?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":181.43,"endTime":181.82,"body":"Wait."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":182.48,"endTime":182.84,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":182.99,"endTime":183.24,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":183.38,"endTime":185.15,"body":"That was going to be a 20, 22 project."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":185.18,"endTime":186.77,"body":"Maybe we'll make it a 20, 23 project."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":186.77,"endTime":187.13,"body":"We'll see."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":187.49,"endTime":187.73,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":187.84,"endTime":188.06,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":188.359,"endTime":192.77,"body":"Um, but uh, more, more topic"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":188.359,"endTime":192.77,"body":"of shipping containers."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":192.77,"endTime":194.03,"body":"Let's talk about PCB layout."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":194.359,"endTime":194.69,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":194.75,"endTime":195.98,"body":"That's what we're here for."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":196.609,"endTime":204.17,"body":"I, I am a novice, uh, PCB layout"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":196.609,"endTime":204.17,"body":"engineer, and I love to dispense,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":205.22,"endTime":205.58,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":208.04,"endTime":211.58,"body":"It's uh, nothing better than, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":208.04,"endTime":211.58,"body":"know, it's like, you should do this."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":211.58,"endTime":214.58,"body":"And then everybody who actually does"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":211.58,"endTime":214.58,"body":"this for a living and is a professional."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":214.58,"endTime":215.57,"body":"Like, no you can't."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":215.9,"endTime":217.82,"body":"No, no, nobody can do that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":219.71,"endTime":219.89,"body":"But."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":220.7,"endTime":230.09,"body":"Uh, I thought maybe we can at least"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":220.7,"endTime":230.09,"body":"touch on some things that, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":230.15,"endTime":241.1,"body":"Uh, and we have had some in the past"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":230.15,"endTime":241.1,"body":"with like, um, Dave Wilcox about,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":241.85,"endTime":245.93,"body":"But there's just not that much advice"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":241.85,"endTime":245.93,"body":"out there for assembling a PCB."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":246.41,"endTime":246.71,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":246.71,"endTime":251.99,"body":"So like the overall advice we always"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":246.71,"endTime":251.99,"body":"give is try not to make things too small."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":252.08,"endTime":252.29,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":252.29,"endTime":254.72,"body":"That's just like bigger is better."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":254.72,"endTime":256.729,"body":"Just, yeah, just don't go crazy."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":256.76,"endTime":263.51,"body":"Trying to fit, you know, a little,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":256.76,"endTime":263.51,"body":"like we had recently one customer"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":263.51,"endTime":270.95,"body":"millimeter by 0.8 millimeter BGA"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":263.51,"endTime":270.95,"body":"with six balls on the bottom of it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":272.09,"endTime":277.999,"body":"I mean, to put that into some"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":272.09,"endTime":277.999,"body":"context, uh, that is, that is not"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":277.999,"endTime":279.53,"body":"That's like significantly smaller."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":280.31,"endTime":284.48,"body":"And a typical grain of rice with six"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":280.31,"endTime":284.48,"body":"hours, six separate solder joints on it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":284.48,"endTime":284.78,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":285.26,"endTime":289.7,"body":"And it's like, oh God, you, and they"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":285.26,"endTime":289.7,"body":"wanted to build like 3000 of these things."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":289.7,"endTime":293.599,"body":"And I was like, can you please"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":289.7,"endTime":293.599,"body":"please research a different package?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":294.38,"endTime":296.06,"body":"Like, we'll do it, we'll do it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":296.09,"endTime":302.99,"body":"But you're just asking for, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":296.09,"endTime":302.99,"body":"know, for problems at that point, I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":302.99,"endTime":303.68,"body":"No problem."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":303.68,"endTime":307.34,"body":"And then there was not a single"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":303.68,"endTime":307.34,"body":"yield issue, but like, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":307.37,"endTime":312.469,"body":"anyway, but that's, you know, choose,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":307.37,"endTime":312.469,"body":"choose larger devices if you can."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":312.469,"endTime":314.96,"body":"But this isn't about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":312.469,"endTime":314.96,"body":"like component selection."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":315.17,"endTime":322.729,"body":"I actually wanted to talk more about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":315.17,"endTime":322.729,"body":"the, the design rules you use in the best"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":322.82,"endTime":327.62,"body":"how it will impact the fabrication of it,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":322.82,"endTime":327.62,"body":"but how it will impact the assembly of it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":328.909,"endTime":332.9,"body":"So for example, and let's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":328.909,"endTime":332.9,"body":"just get right into it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":332.9,"endTime":334.849,"body":"Let's get into the meat of it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":332.9,"endTime":334.849,"body":"with an example right away,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":334.88,"endTime":340.514,"body":"vias, believe it or not can have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":334.88,"endTime":340.514,"body":"a significant impact on assembly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":341.775,"endTime":347.744,"body":"And now most people think, well, all via"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":341.775,"endTime":347.744,"body":"what w you know, you don't use vias for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":347.804,"endTime":354.585,"body":"So I, I always kind of assume people"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":347.804,"endTime":354.585,"body":"understand what these terms mean, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":354.585,"endTime":361.304,"body":"And if you're not sure what I'm meaning"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":354.585,"endTime":361.304,"body":"by a via I'm talking about something"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":361.304,"endTime":366.134,"body":"or current or whatever it is that you're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":361.304,"endTime":366.134,"body":"using it for from the top side of the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":366.134,"endTime":372.705,"body":"internal layer, you know, depending on"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":366.134,"endTime":372.705,"body":"what you're trying to accomplish, but,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":372.705,"endTime":377.614,"body":"So it's like a plated through"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":372.705,"endTime":377.614,"body":"hole, but there's no, like, you're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":377.674,"endTime":379.364,"body":"We're just talking about a via, so, okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":379.394,"endTime":383.144,"body":"Well, most of our audience should probably"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":379.394,"endTime":383.144,"body":"understand what if he is, but I wanted"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":383.144,"endTime":393.284,"body":"case, believe it or not, the a poorly"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":383.144,"endTime":393.284,"body":"laid out via can have a significant"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":393.284,"endTime":396.484,"body":"So for example, if, if, and the reason I."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":397.744,"endTime":402.004,"body":"This is top of my mind recently is because"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":397.744,"endTime":402.004,"body":"we've been dealing with a lot of these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":402.604,"endTime":407.764,"body":"Let's just get an episode of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":402.604,"endTime":407.764,"body":"good practice, you know, best"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":407.764,"endTime":408.994,"body":"And maybe this will be a part one."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":409.054,"endTime":409.474,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":409.504,"endTime":411.155,"body":"You know, maybe we'll"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":409.504,"endTime":411.155,"body":"do part two part three."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":411.184,"endTime":412.324,"body":"Maybe we'll keep it ongoing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":412.324,"endTime":425.794,"body":"But, um, the proximity of your via to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":412.324,"endTime":425.794,"body":"something that you have to solder can"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":425.794,"endTime":432.934,"body":"say for example, you place a via the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":425.794,"endTime":432.934,"body":"most obvious one we can talk about is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":432.934,"endTime":438.335,"body":"So you got an oh five and you're like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":432.934,"endTime":438.335,"body":"I'm just going to put a V up right here,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":438.335,"endTime":444.184,"body":"Well, you know, you got a big giant"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":438.335,"endTime":444.184,"body":"hole in the pad now, where do you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":444.184,"endTime":448.054,"body":"It's going to just get sucked"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":444.184,"endTime":448.054,"body":"right down in the hall, but."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":449.51,"endTime":452.12,"body":"That like electrically,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":449.51,"endTime":452.12,"body":"it's going to work."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":452.12,"endTime":458.93,"body":"Like you're going to put that on a work"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":452.12,"endTime":458.93,"body":"bench and you're going to put that through"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":459.44,"endTime":462.609,"body":"Um, and it's, and it's going to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":459.44,"endTime":462.609,"body":"work on your, on your test bed."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":462.609,"endTime":464.84,"body":"And, but then like, you're going"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":462.609,"endTime":464.84,"body":"to put that out in the field."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":465.619,"endTime":471.08,"body":"And if that thing does anything other"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":465.619,"endTime":471.08,"body":"than sit in a climate controlled room for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":471.169,"endTime":473.659,"body":"Like you just don't have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":471.169,"endTime":473.659,"body":"enough solder on that part now."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":473.719,"endTime":477.109,"body":"Like you've just completely starved"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":473.719,"endTime":477.109,"body":"the joint of all that solder."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":478.069,"endTime":482.869,"body":"Most people know that most people and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":478.069,"endTime":482.869,"body":"probably if you're nerdy enough to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":483.049,"endTime":485.629,"body":"nodding your head and fanatically,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":483.049,"endTime":485.629,"body":"like, yeah, I would never do that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":487.129,"endTime":489.65,"body":"But even some, it was just like, duh."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":492.53,"endTime":500.989,"body":"Uh, so like, but even I've seen awesome"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":492.53,"endTime":500.989,"body":"engine, like, uh, typically like, so"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":500.989,"endTime":502.52,"body":"And you're like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":500.989,"endTime":502.52,"body":"this is one from Mike."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":502.52,"endTime":504.08,"body":"This is one from Melissa."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":504.08,"endTime":505.07,"body":"This is one from Jack."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":505.07,"endTime":505.849,"body":"And you're like, okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":505.849,"endTime":514.46,"body":"I, you kind of get familiar with, with"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":505.849,"endTime":514.46,"body":"how they do their layouts and, and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":514.46,"endTime":519.02,"body":"And you're like, oh, Jennifer's, this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":514.46,"endTime":519.02,"body":"is going to be great because she always"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":519.68,"endTime":524.675,"body":"And then every now and then you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":519.68,"endTime":524.675,"body":"see some stuff and you're like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":524.855,"endTime":531.155,"body":"So it's like little things that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":524.855,"endTime":531.155,"body":"may be, they know don't put a via"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":531.665,"endTime":535.265,"body":"Don't put a via, even too close to a pad."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":536.825,"endTime":544.775,"body":"So what we have had happened to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":536.825,"endTime":544.775,"body":"us recently is this company where"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":544.835,"endTime":549.755,"body":"we've had great success, good"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":544.835,"endTime":549.755,"body":"yields with them and everything"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":550.025,"endTime":555.575,"body":"But then they sent us this one board"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":550.025,"endTime":555.575,"body":"recently, it was a bit more compact"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":555.575,"endTime":563.135,"body":"really close to some, um, discrete like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":555.575,"endTime":563.135,"body":"0402, 0603 chips and caps and resistors."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":564.005,"endTime":576.395,"body":"And what happened was, it was so close"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":564.005,"endTime":576.395,"body":"that the fab ended up not being able to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":577.64,"endTime":579.59,"body":"So effectively, it's still"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":577.64,"endTime":579.59,"body":"doing the same thing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":579.59,"endTime":582.08,"body":"The solder paste is still"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":579.59,"endTime":582.08,"body":"just running into the via."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":583.55,"endTime":585.92,"body":"So like, yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":585.95,"endTime":596.09,"body":"Try not to get them that close"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":585.95,"endTime":596.09,"body":"because you you'll still end"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":596.09,"endTime":603.89,"body":"So my recommendation, and this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":596.09,"endTime":603.89,"body":"is not like a minimum, I always"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":604.79,"endTime":606.32,"body":"Like cozy minimums."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":608.66,"endTime":609.04,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":609.05,"endTime":615.95,"body":"I use that though, but like, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":609.05,"endTime":615.95,"body":"like, it's not just the minimum,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":616.73,"endTime":625.94,"body":"And so I like to say, keep the like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":616.73,"endTime":625.94,"body":"outside edge of your annular ring"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":625.94,"endTime":631.88,"body":"feature pad through plated through"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":625.94,"endTime":631.88,"body":"hole, whatever it might be at least six"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":632.06,"endTime":639.98,"body":"Because if you leave that much room,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":632.06,"endTime":639.98,"body":"then there will definitely be an area"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":640.58,"endTime":654.2,"body":"Um, but even better than, than, than"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":640.58,"endTime":654.2,"body":"just like at least leaving some room,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":654.23,"endTime":663.74,"body":"If you come to Worthington or, or, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":654.23,"endTime":663.74,"body":"know, set up your rules in Eagle or Altium"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":664.28,"endTime":668.27,"body":"It defines them as, uh, as"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":664.28,"endTime":668.27,"body":"all your vias being tented."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":668.3,"endTime":676.49,"body":"Now this gets tricky because if you've"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":668.3,"endTime":676.49,"body":"never actually done this and Eagle or"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":676.49,"endTime":679.79,"body":"Now I could be wrong, but it used"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":676.49,"endTime":679.79,"body":"to be not a one button click."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":679.82,"endTime":683.6,"body":"It used to be kind of tricky"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":679.82,"endTime":683.6,"body":"to try to tell the software"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":685.27,"endTime":687.83,"body":"KiCAD is like, brilliant."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":687.89,"endTime":689.3,"body":"Like, there's just like a button."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":689.3,"endTime":691.89,"body":"When you go to export your Gerber data,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":689.3,"endTime":691.89,"body":"it's like, do you want to tent vias?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":691.91,"endTime":692.51,"body":"Yes!"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":693.41,"endTime":697.33,"body":"It's like so easy to like, make"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":693.41,"endTime":697.33,"body":"sure your vias are tented in KiCAD."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":697.67,"endTime":698.9,"body":"The way they handle that it's brilliant."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":698.9,"endTime":702.29,"body":"But, um, in Eagle it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":698.9,"endTime":702.29,"body":"a huge pain in the neck."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":702.29,"endTime":713.699,"body":"You have to like go to your DRC, your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":702.29,"endTime":713.699,"body":"design rule  check  tool and you have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":713.719,"endTime":718.1,"body":"Like what's the maximum hole size"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":713.719,"endTime":718.1,"body":"you want covered with  solder mask."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":718.324,"endTime":721.564,"body":"And so you're like, okay, well what's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":718.324,"endTime":721.564,"body":"what size that I use for all my vias."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":721.984,"endTime":722.374,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":722.374,"endTime":727.234,"body":"Well, if none of them are bigger"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":722.374,"endTime":727.234,"body":"than, than 25 mil, then I'm going"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":727.234,"endTime":732.124,"body":"than, you know, 26 mil or 26 mil and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":727.234,"endTime":732.124,"body":"larger leave exposed than anything."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":732.275,"endTime":733.655,"body":"It's a huge pain in the neck and Eagle."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":733.655,"endTime":736.515,"body":"I don't know why it's such a pain"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":733.655,"endTime":736.515,"body":"in the neck and Eagle, but it is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":736.515,"endTime":742.864,"body":"And I'm not sure about your cadences"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":736.515,"endTime":742.864,"body":"and your pads and your, your, uh, mentor"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":742.864,"endTime":752.614,"body":"But if you can, if you can define"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":742.864,"endTime":752.614,"body":"your vias as being tented, because"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":752.734,"endTime":754.444,"body":"There's so many reasons"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":752.734,"endTime":754.444,"body":"that that's useful."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":754.834,"endTime":755.734,"body":"Visually."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":756.155,"endTime":757.474,"body":"It's just easier to look at."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":757.474,"endTime":759.364,"body":"Remember that humans are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":757.474,"endTime":759.364,"body":"building these things."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":759.635,"endTime":770.494,"body":"So like a person looking at a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":759.635,"endTime":770.494,"body":"board, a busy board and having all"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":770.555,"endTime":779.57,"body":"It can really actually be difficult"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":770.555,"endTime":779.57,"body":"to kind of like pick out the important"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":779.9,"endTime":788.9,"body":"Also, it allows you to put a silk screen"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":779.9,"endTime":788.9,"body":"over the vias because normally you'd have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":789.44,"endTime":793.88,"body":"Um, but if you put soldermask"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":789.44,"endTime":793.88,"body":"down first, then you can typically"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":793.88,"endTime":799.37,"body":"It'll be a little distorted because that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":793.88,"endTime":799.37,"body":"solder mask is going to be perfectly flat"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":799.43,"endTime":802.91,"body":"It'll be it'll work, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":799.43,"endTime":802.91,"body":"especially if you're using it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":803.51,"endTime":808.94,"body":"Um, there's, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":803.51,"endTime":808.94,"body":"all kinds of, there's all kinds"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":809.45,"endTime":816.68,"body":"Um, there's some disadvantages and, and,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":809.45,"endTime":816.68,"body":"you know, we could get into those, but"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":816.71,"endTime":819.44,"body":"cause I want to have a whole episode"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":816.71,"endTime":819.44,"body":"where we just talk about vias today."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":819.8,"endTime":821.45,"body":"It's just about how it impacts assembly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":822.32,"endTime":828.17,"body":"Um, and, and yeah, if you can, if you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":822.32,"endTime":828.17,"body":"can tent all your vias, that is huge."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":828.2,"endTime":829.569,"body":"We love tented vias."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":829.86,"endTime":830.88,"body":"Please tent your vias."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":831.23,"endTime":836.074,"body":"If you tent to your vias, your, your,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":831.23,"endTime":836.074,"body":"um, assembly shop is going to be happy."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":836.494,"endTime":837.635,"body":"It's gonna make life easy."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":838.175,"endTime":841.324,"body":"There's so many, there's so many"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":838.175,"endTime":841.324,"body":"upsides to assembly to have tented vias."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":841.895,"endTime":843.305,"body":"There's going to be no"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":841.895,"endTime":843.305,"body":"risk of solder bridging."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":843.305,"endTime":844.055,"body":"Cause that's the other thing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":844.055,"endTime":847.954,"body":"So let's say, okay,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":844.055,"endTime":847.954,"body":"you've done a good job."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":847.984,"endTime":853.175,"body":"You've made sure to keep your,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":847.984,"endTime":853.175,"body":"your vias six mil from the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":853.714,"endTime":857.015,"body":"Um, Uh, but you haven't tented your vias."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":857.224,"endTime":863.404,"body":"Well, when we go to do through hole"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":857.224,"endTime":863.404,"body":"soldering, if we're using an automated"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":863.404,"endTime":869.165,"body":"we, you know, we have a via really,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":863.404,"endTime":869.165,"body":"really close to a plated through"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":870.094,"endTime":873.994,"body":"We generally try to avoid filling"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":870.094,"endTime":873.994,"body":"vias with solder if we can."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":874.594,"endTime":881.854,"body":"Um, there's a variety of reasons for this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":874.594,"endTime":881.854,"body":"because we don't always know if the vias"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":881.915,"endTime":886.594,"body":"sometimes we'll actually ask like, Hey, do"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":881.915,"endTime":886.594,"body":"you mind if we fill this via with solder,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":886.594,"endTime":891.874,"body":"And so then that's going to limit the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":886.594,"endTime":891.874,"body":"size of the nozzle we use for maybe if"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":892.354,"endTime":899.344,"body":"um, or possibly we could accidentally"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":892.354,"endTime":899.344,"body":"create a solder bridge between that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":900.47,"endTime":908.689,"body":"So even six mil might not be enough,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":900.47,"endTime":908.689,"body":"you know, especially if it's near a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":909.02,"endTime":913.76,"body":"away from the next, you know, plated"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":909.02,"endTime":913.76,"body":"through holes so that you definitely"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":914.81,"endTime":923.66,"body":"Um, but if you, if you tent it, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":914.81,"endTime":923.66,"body":"if you cover that via with a soldermask,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":923.66,"endTime":924.829,"body":"Cause it's covered in soldermask."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":926.209,"endTime":926.54,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":926.569,"endTime":929.93,"body":"So this is, this is Chris"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":926.569,"endTime":929.93,"body":"Denney playing with everybody."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":931.13,"endTime":932.329,"body":"Please tent your vias."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":933.05,"endTime":941.63,"body":"Please one, one thing that, um, uh, I was,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":933.05,"endTime":941.63,"body":"I was talking to Dave previous guest on"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":941.989,"endTime":945.17,"body":"I said, what size would you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":941.989,"endTime":945.17,"body":"recommend people make vias?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":945.229,"endTime":947.549,"body":"If they want to make"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":945.229,"endTime":947.549,"body":"sure that they're tented."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":947.869,"endTime":951.56,"body":"And he said, no larger than"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":947.869,"endTime":951.56,"body":"0.3 millimeters or 12 mil."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":952.189,"endTime":958.579,"body":"Um, if you have it around this size,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":952.189,"endTime":958.579,"body":"then it will definitely be filled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":958.64,"endTime":962.599,"body":"And, uh, you will have very"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":958.64,"endTime":962.599,"body":"positive results with that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":962.989,"endTime":964.4,"body":"You can, you can go larger."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":964.4,"endTime":973.43,"body":"Certainly we've gone as large"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":964.4,"endTime":973.43,"body":"as like 30 mil, uh, which is .75"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":973.459,"endTime":978.26,"body":"But there's some potential"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":973.459,"endTime":978.26,"body":"fab defect issues."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":978.979,"endTime":985.099,"body":"Like you, you have like, you won't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":978.979,"endTime":985.099,"body":"get, you get this weird thing where"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":985.099,"endTime":986.78,"body":"It just kinda like covers the via."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":986.839,"endTime":990.319,"body":"It's still fine, but like PCB"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":986.839,"endTime":990.319,"body":"fabs, don't like to see that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":990.619,"endTime":995.03,"body":"But at the end of the day, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":990.619,"endTime":995.03,"body":"not going to really impact the quality"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":995.18,"endTime":1003.129,"body":"So, you know, but if you can try to keep"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":995.18,"endTime":1003.129,"body":"your vias nice and tidy 0.3 millimeter"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1003.129,"endTime":1004.839,"body":"And I'm talking about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1003.129,"endTime":1004.839,"body":"the actual hole itself."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1004.869,"endTime":1009.849,"body":"If that wasn't clear, I'm not talking"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1004.869,"endTime":1009.849,"body":"about the annular ring size, I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1010.449,"endTime":1012.939,"body":"If you did it about 0.3 millimeter,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1010.449,"endTime":1012.939,"body":"you should be in good shape."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1012.939,"endTime":1015.069,"body":"There that's a pretty small hole."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1015.129,"endTime":1017.77,"body":"Like, you know, it's kind"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1015.129,"endTime":1017.77,"body":"of a pain to drill holes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1017.77,"endTime":1020.949,"body":"That's that size, but"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1017.77,"endTime":1020.949,"body":"it's not like impossible."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1020.949,"endTime":1022.119,"body":"Like they do that all the time."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1022.389,"endTime":1027.52,"body":"You know, even down to six"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1022.389,"endTime":1027.52,"body":"mills, I forget where they have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1027.609,"endTime":1029.02,"body":"It might be like six mill."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1029.109,"endTime":1030.369,"body":"They have to start using a laser drill."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1030.369,"endTime":1033.399,"body":"So we're on there, but like at 12"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1030.369,"endTime":1033.399,"body":"mill, you're still using a steel drill."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1033.399,"endTime":1038.859,"body":"You're still, you know, So that's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1033.399,"endTime":1038.859,"body":"vias, let's talk about edge clearance."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1039.13,"endTime":1048.46,"body":"So, um, normally when you hear, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1039.13,"endTime":1048.46,"body":"definitions of, oh, you know, what's your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1048.85,"endTime":1051.79,"body":"And we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1048.85,"endTime":1051.79,"body":"copper to the edge of the PCB."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1052.27,"endTime":1053.71,"body":"Um, let's just talk about copper."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1053.71,"endTime":1054.85,"body":"Let's not talk about holes here."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1055.36,"endTime":1064.45,"body":"Um, normally a PCB fab will say, oh,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1055.36,"endTime":1064.45,"body":"about 0.2, five millimeter or 10 mil, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1064.45,"endTime":1070.44,"body":"And that makes sure that, you know, they"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1064.45,"endTime":1070.44,"body":"can put the copper feature down and then"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1070.44,"endTime":1072.58,"body":"And they know they won't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1070.44,"endTime":1072.58,"body":"damage the copper at the edge."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1072.61,"endTime":1081.22,"body":"That's, that's kind of the, the clearance"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1072.61,"endTime":1081.22,"body":"you hear from most of them, but that's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1082.24,"endTime":1091.63,"body":"So what we like to talk about is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1082.24,"endTime":1091.63,"body":"three millimeters from the edge"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1093.024,"endTime":1093.264,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1093.264,"endTime":1096.685,"body":"So you can bury, um, copper traces."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1096.685,"endTime":1102.625,"body":"You can have ground pours, you can"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1096.685,"endTime":1102.625,"body":"have all that kind of stuff within"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1102.625,"endTime":1107.034,"body":"try not to put any parts within three"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1102.625,"endTime":1107.034,"body":"millimeters of the edge of the PCB."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1107.935,"endTime":1116.985,"body":"Um, there's, there's an awesome,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1107.935,"endTime":1116.985,"body":"it's, it's enormous and you have to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1117.635,"endTime":1118.945,"body":"Is it an IPC spec now?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1119.034,"endTime":1121.615,"body":"It might not be, I'm trying"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1119.034,"endTime":1121.615,"body":"to think of who publishes it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1121.615,"endTime":1123.175,"body":"It might just be SMEMA that publishes it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1124.104,"endTime":1127.314,"body":"Boy, this is why I'm the, I'm a novice"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1124.104,"endTime":1127.314,"body":"engineer, not an expert engineer."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1127.975,"endTime":1131.524,"body":"Um, but anyway, the, the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1127.975,"endTime":1131.524,"body":"spec is called SMEMA."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1131.574,"endTime":1132.564,"body":"Don't ask me what it stands for."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1132.564,"endTime":1143.245,"body":"I have no idea what it spans a stands"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1132.564,"endTime":1143.245,"body":"for SMEMA, and it defines basically how"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1143.844,"endTime":1150.354,"body":"Um, the spec is really written, not for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1143.844,"endTime":1150.354,"body":"shops like Worthington or CircuitHub"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1151.465,"endTime":1152.875,"body":"Okay, so that, yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1152.875,"endTime":1160.825,"body":"So when you're making a pick and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1152.875,"endTime":1160.825,"body":"place machine or a stencil printer,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1161.005,"endTime":1168.325,"body":"There's going to be other vendors"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1161.005,"endTime":1168.325,"body":"making reflow ovens and conveyors"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1168.325,"endTime":1175.465,"body":"So you want to be able to set"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1168.325,"endTime":1175.465,"body":"up one assembly line and be able"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1175.675,"endTime":1178.885,"body":"So how do you make sure that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1175.675,"endTime":1178.885,"body":"everybody plays well together"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1179.035,"endTime":1185.365,"body":"And so they wrote a spec and it basically"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1179.035,"endTime":1185.365,"body":"defines like the height of the machine"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1185.365,"endTime":1193.375,"body":"yada, but importantly, it also defines"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1185.365,"endTime":1193.375,"body":"the clamps, the machine clamps that hold"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1193.645,"endTime":1199.165,"body":"So cause you gotta hold a PCB while"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1193.645,"endTime":1199.165,"body":"your stencil printing, gotta hold"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1199.165,"endTime":1201.355,"body":"know, cause otherwise you don't want"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1199.165,"endTime":1201.355,"body":"these things moving around on you."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1201.355,"endTime":1203.575,"body":"You think about how accurate"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1201.355,"endTime":1203.575,"body":"you need to do all these things."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1204.175,"endTime":1213.19,"body":"Um, it defines, uh, Uh, the, the,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1204.175,"endTime":1213.19,"body":"the, the size of the fingers on"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1213.79,"endTime":1215.44,"body":"And that spec is three millimeters."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1215.92,"endTime":1221.44,"body":"So the edge of the PCB will be"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1215.92,"endTime":1221.44,"body":"covered by three millimeters of clamp."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1221.62,"endTime":1222.52,"body":"If that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1223.75,"endTime":1233.02,"body":"And if you have any components in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1223.75,"endTime":1233.02,"body":"the way, then we need to add kind"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1233.29,"endTime":1243.97,"body":"Now this, this three millimeter spec"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1233.29,"endTime":1243.97,"body":"is so it's so poorly known, like nobody"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1243.97,"endTime":1248.32,"body":"machine manufacturers that nobody ever"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1243.97,"endTime":1248.32,"body":"designs their boards with this in mind."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1248.56,"endTime":1248.83,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1249.55,"endTime":1258.469,"body":"It, it is such a problem that we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1249.55,"endTime":1258.469,"body":"just, we gave up years ago and we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1258.469,"endTime":1261.679,"body":"We're just not even, we're not even going"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1258.469,"endTime":1261.679,"body":"to consider the three millimeter edge."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1262.55,"endTime":1264.26,"body":"It's just, it's, it's such a problem."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1264.26,"endTime":1267.949,"body":"We're just going to add a rails"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1264.26,"endTime":1267.949,"body":"to everything, and we're going"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1267.949,"endTime":1277.34,"body":"We're gonna put our tooling holes on"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1267.949,"endTime":1277.34,"body":"there and we're just going to move on"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1277.489,"endTime":1285.139,"body":"switch their designs, to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1277.489,"endTime":1285.139,"body":"we have three millimeters of clearance,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1286.219,"endTime":1288.439,"body":"but what are the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1286.219,"endTime":1288.439,"body":"advantages of not having rails"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1289.1,"endTime":1293.929,"body":"then you don't need"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1289.1,"endTime":1293.929,"body":"to depanelize the rail."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1294.685,"endTime":1294.925,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1294.985,"endTime":1296.455,"body":"You don't need to remove"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1294.985,"endTime":1296.455,"body":"them from the board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1296.695,"endTime":1299.995,"body":"You get a nice clean, routed"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1296.695,"endTime":1299.995,"body":"edge from the PCB fab."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1300.205,"endTime":1303.145,"body":"Cause they're just gonna you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1300.205,"endTime":1303.145,"body":"use a nice router on the edge."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1303.265,"endTime":1308.935,"body":"So the rails we tear off, they have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1303.265,"endTime":1308.935,"body":"these beautiful edges, these beautiful,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1310.225,"endTime":1311.665,"body":"And we throw them all out."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1311.875,"endTime":1319.525,"body":"Well, we recycle them obviously, but,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1311.875,"endTime":1319.525,"body":"uh, uh, we need those in order to handle"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1319.525,"endTime":1328.615,"body":"the clearance that we need so we can"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1319.525,"endTime":1328.615,"body":"eliminate the paneling them altogether,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1329.125,"endTime":1334.525,"body":"Um, it also eliminates the,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1329.125,"endTime":1334.525,"body":"the extra stress placed on the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1334.945,"endTime":1337.795,"body":"Not entirely because we're probably"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1334.945,"endTime":1337.795,"body":"still not going to build your boards."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1337.795,"endTime":1341.665,"body":"One up are probably still going"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1337.795,"endTime":1341.665,"body":"to build them two up four up six"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1342.265,"endTime":1345.715,"body":"Um, there's uh, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1345.715,"endTime":1347.575,"body":"It's just, there's just it's."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1347.605,"endTime":1347.965,"body":"It's."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1348.985,"endTime":1354.655,"body":"Plenty of clearance, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1348.985,"endTime":1354.655,"body":"nothing we have to worry about when"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1354.655,"endTime":1356.274,"body":"There's just all kinds"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1354.655,"endTime":1356.274,"body":"of good reasons for it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1356.274,"endTime":1356.514,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1357.054,"endTime":1365.874,"body":"Um, that three millimeter spec, if"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1357.054,"endTime":1365.874,"body":"everybody, if everybody knew about three"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1365.874,"endTime":1374.574,"body":"to the nearest solderable, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1365.874,"endTime":1374.574,"body":"copper area and fiducials, we would"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1376.764,"endTime":1384.864,"body":"Like we would, we would have no need"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1376.764,"endTime":1384.864,"body":"to, well, no, we still might need to,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1384.864,"endTime":1387.445,"body":"And so you could still"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1384.864,"endTime":1387.445,"body":"potentially damage it anyway."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1388.33,"endTime":1392.5,"body":"My point is, uh, that is something"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1388.33,"endTime":1392.5,"body":"that not many people are aware of."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1392.5,"endTime":1393.64,"body":"And I wanted to get that out there."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1393.64,"endTime":1399.19,"body":"So people thinking about it and it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1393.64,"endTime":1399.19,"body":"like, oh, Hey, you know, if I can do"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1399.25,"endTime":1405.04,"body":"and you've got a good design and it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1399.25,"endTime":1405.04,"body":"works, and you have one millimeter of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1405.07,"endTime":1413.65,"body":"Like, like I said, it's such a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1405.07,"endTime":1413.65,"body":"pervasive problem that we've just,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1413.71,"endTime":1414.86,"body":"Like we didn't."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1416.385,"endTime":1417.945,"body":"Don't worry about it, I guess is my point."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1418.845,"endTime":1425.085,"body":"If you've got a design that works,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1418.845,"endTime":1425.085,"body":"but if you're designing something"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1425.145,"endTime":1431.205,"body":"from the edge of the PCB, to the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1425.145,"endTime":1431.205,"body":"nearest solderable feature, then"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1431.265,"endTime":1438.315,"body":"And that'd be pretty nice because what'll"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1431.265,"endTime":1438.315,"body":"happen is let's say, you know, you go"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1438.345,"endTime":1441.045,"body":"cool product and we're building a couple"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1438.345,"endTime":1441.045,"body":"of hundred a month or something like that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1441.375,"endTime":1445.455,"body":"And then, and then, you know, somebody"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1441.375,"endTime":1445.455,"body":"picks it up and it goes viral."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1445.455,"endTime":1447.285,"body":"And all of a sudden you're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1445.455,"endTime":1447.285,"body":"selling like 2000 a month."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1447.675,"endTime":1454.305,"body":"Well now though, the added costs of those"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1447.675,"endTime":1454.305,"body":"frames and rails and the paneling process"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1454.845,"endTime":1461.415,"body":"And if you've already designed your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1454.845,"endTime":1461.415,"body":"board in mind without the need for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1461.625,"endTime":1463.305,"body":"You know, you've saved"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1461.625,"endTime":1463.305,"body":"yourself, all that money."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1464.835,"endTime":1472.21,"body":"So it's just kind of like thinking"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1464.835,"endTime":1472.21,"body":"ahead, Uh, so that you don't run"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1472.21,"endTime":1476.53,"body":"future and have to continue to pay"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1472.21,"endTime":1476.53,"body":"for these processes that otherwise"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1477.43,"endTime":1489.22,"body":"Um, it reminds me of, of like the, uh,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1477.43,"endTime":1489.22,"body":"see if I can find this for the show notes,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1489.22,"endTime":1502.18,"body":"from, but there's like a, there's like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1489.22,"endTime":1502.18,"body":"a, a cartoon drawing of, of, uh, uh, an"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1502.18,"endTime":1508.57,"body":"the consumption of, of energy used to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1502.18,"endTime":1508.57,"body":"use the product and it, and it has a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1508.57,"endTime":1514.15,"body":"And it's like, which, which one of these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1508.57,"endTime":1514.15,"body":"things cast the biggest shadow in cost."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1514.36,"endTime":1514.63,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1514.63,"endTime":1516.1,"body":"Is it the, is it the designer?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1516.43,"endTime":1517.57,"body":"Is it the logistics?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1517.63,"endTime":1518.65,"body":"Is it the factory?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1518.83,"endTime":1521.05,"body":"Is it the, the, the use of the product?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1522.07,"endTime":1526.915,"body":"Well, it's always like 90"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1522.07,"endTime":1526.915,"body":"percent, you know, the designer"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1527.784,"endTime":1532.854,"body":"They're going to have the biggest"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1527.784,"endTime":1532.854,"body":"impact on the cost and quality"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1533.394,"endTime":1540.024,"body":"Um, and so thinking about these things"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1533.394,"endTime":1540.024,"body":"ahead of time, then it's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1540.024,"endTime":1545.274,"body":"significant savings when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1540.024,"endTime":1545.274,"body":"manufacturing, you're going to improve"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1545.274,"endTime":1548.094,"body":"So, yeah, that's my point."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1548.364,"endTime":1552.104,"body":"Think about these things I have the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1548.364,"endTime":1552.104,"body":"time, but if you haven't, like I"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1552.235,"endTime":1558.324,"body":"But, if every engineer in the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1552.235,"endTime":1558.324,"body":"world listens to this podcast and starts"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1558.324,"endTime":1563.425,"body":"millimeters, then we might have, we might"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1558.324,"endTime":1563.425,"body":"be able to eliminate rails completely."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1564.054,"endTime":1564.624,"body":"Is that what you're saying?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1565.87,"endTime":1566.29,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1566.74,"endTime":1568.33,"body":"We could, we could possibly do that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1568.33,"endTime":1569.59,"body":"We could possibly do that now."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1569.98,"endTime":1575.92,"body":"Um, like I said earlier, we have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1569.98,"endTime":1575.92,"body":"racks that we put these PCBs into"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1576.03,"endTime":1578.08,"body":"And you also redesign the racks."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1578.14,"endTime":1584.8,"body":"Yeah, no, like seriously, at the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1578.14,"endTime":1584.8,"body":"end of the day, you re you know, you,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1584.89,"endTime":1589.93,"body":"W you know, you're out like a thousand"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1584.89,"endTime":1589.93,"body":"bucks worth of new racks versus,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1589.93,"endTime":1593.41,"body":"thousands and thousands and thousands"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1589.93,"endTime":1593.41,"body":"of dollars are wasted on rails."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1593.41,"endTime":1597.91,"body":"And, uh, depending every year,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1593.41,"endTime":1597.91,"body":"you know, it's, it's a drop"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1597.91,"endTime":1603.07,"body":"So, yeah, I would be very pleased if"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1597.91,"endTime":1603.07,"body":"all of a sudden, every board showed up"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1603.07,"endTime":1609.985,"body":"the edges, but, but even if they do that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1603.07,"endTime":1609.985,"body":"and they still don't put copper, uh,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1610.044,"endTime":1612.715,"body":"We still need to add rails to it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1610.044,"endTime":1612.715,"body":"because we'd got to add fiduciary."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1614.304,"endTime":1614.754,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1615.085,"endTime":1617.655,"body":"Well that brings you"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1615.085,"endTime":1617.655,"body":"into your next point.."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1618.264,"endTime":1618.774,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1619.075,"endTime":1623.905,"body":"Uh, we need fiducials at least at"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1619.075,"endTime":1623.905,"body":"least two fiducials on your board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1623.905,"endTime":1626.425,"body":"And if you're not familiar with"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1623.905,"endTime":1626.425,"body":"fiducials, you're not alone."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1626.425,"endTime":1629.725,"body":"So many PCB designers are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1626.425,"endTime":1629.725,"body":"not familiar with fiducials."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1630.264,"endTime":1636.294,"body":"Um, they're basically just a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1630.264,"endTime":1636.294,"body":"dummy copper feature on the board."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1636.835,"endTime":1638.935,"body":"Usually like a one millimeter circle."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1638.935,"endTime":1643.254,"body":"They can be a half millimeter"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1638.935,"endTime":1643.254,"body":"circle, but that's about the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1643.554,"endTime":1646.675,"body":"I recommend a one again, my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1643.554,"endTime":1646.675,"body":"cozy recommendations, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1647.095,"endTime":1651.445,"body":"Um, oh, by the way, the three"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1647.095,"endTime":1651.445,"body":"millimeter edge clearance is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1651.445,"endTime":1652.105,"body":"That's a minimum."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1652.135,"endTime":1657.655,"body":"My cozy recommendation would be five"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1652.135,"endTime":1657.655,"body":"millimeters, by the way, I meant to, here"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1657.655,"endTime":1661.615,"body":"We got 20 minutes of Chris saying"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1657.655,"endTime":1661.615,"body":"three millimeter and it's not"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1661.615,"endTime":1663.774,"body":"Five millimeters is my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1661.615,"endTime":1663.774,"body":"actual recommendation."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1663.865,"endTime":1664.825,"body":"Anyway, I digress."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1667.075,"endTime":1675.925,"body":"But on your fiducial, I recommend a one"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1667.075,"endTime":1675.925,"body":"millimeter copper feature and then a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1676.405,"endTime":1682.765,"body":"So kind of like a, if you think about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1676.405,"endTime":1682.765,"body":"it, your annular ring would have a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1682.795,"endTime":1684.655,"body":"Half a millimeter or one millimeter."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1685.105,"endTime":1685.465,"body":"I'm trying to think."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1685.465,"endTime":1688.135,"body":"No, it would be the annular ring"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1685.465,"endTime":1688.135,"body":"would be about half a millimeter."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1688.435,"endTime":1690.865,"body":"So your copper circle is one millimeter."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1690.955,"endTime":1695.995,"body":"And your annular ring of solder mass"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1690.955,"endTime":1695.995,"body":"clearance is, um, half a millimeter."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1695.995,"endTime":1700.975,"body":"In other words, the total diameter of your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1695.995,"endTime":1700.975,"body":"solder mask clearance is two millimeters."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1700.975,"endTime":1703.765,"body":"The total diameter of the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1700.975,"endTime":1703.765,"body":"copper is one millimeter."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1704.125,"endTime":1707.575,"body":"And the reason you do that, And a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1704.125,"endTime":1707.575,"body":"lot of people find this surprising."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1707.575,"endTime":1716.754,"body":"Why do you, why do you pull the mask"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1707.575,"endTime":1716.754,"body":"away from the fiduciary that's because"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1717.145,"endTime":1720.655,"body":"Uh, very well it's typically"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1717.145,"endTime":1720.655,"body":"mask is very shiny."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1720.715,"endTime":1723.415,"body":"It has kind of like a,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1720.715,"endTime":1723.415,"body":"um, a glossy appearance."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1724.165,"endTime":1730.254,"body":"And when you shine a light down on"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1724.165,"endTime":1730.254,"body":"that with your, your vision systems on"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1730.254,"endTime":1734.274,"body":"the fiducial is, it's going to see all"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1730.254,"endTime":1734.274,"body":"this extra light coming from the mask."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1734.274,"endTime":1736.225,"body":"And it's going to, I, I don't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1734.274,"endTime":1736.225,"body":"know where the copper is."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1736.225,"endTime":1736.855,"body":"I can't tell you."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1736.885,"endTime":1737.335,"body":"Sorry."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1737.815,"endTime":1747.504,"body":"You know, and then you're just, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1737.815,"endTime":1747.504,"body":"you're, you're Sol you can't move on, but"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1748.495,"endTime":1754.585,"body":"Sort of finish it's it's very dull"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1748.495,"endTime":1754.585,"body":"and doesn't reflect any light at"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1754.855,"endTime":1758.815,"body":"And so you get just this beautiful,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1754.855,"endTime":1758.815,"body":"nice, bright, copper circle."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1759.115,"endTime":1761.875,"body":"Your vision systems can"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1759.115,"endTime":1761.875,"body":"lock right on to that thing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1762.115,"endTime":1764.305,"body":"And you know, you can be off to the races."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1764.305,"endTime":1767.215,"body":"So that's why we have that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1764.305,"endTime":1767.215,"body":"mask clearance on fiducials."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1767.395,"endTime":1773.515,"body":"I think I have, I think on our website, I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1767.395,"endTime":1773.515,"body":"have like a whole article all about that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1773.705,"endTime":1775.975,"body":"Got this, looking it up"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1773.705,"endTime":1775.975,"body":"real time as we speak."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1776.515,"endTime":1778.285,"body":"That's always how the pros do it, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1778.675,"endTime":1779.065,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1779.095,"endTime":1783.265,"body":"I do have a whole article"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1779.095,"endTime":1783.265,"body":"called use fiducials, beautiful."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1783.445,"endTime":1784.555,"body":"Working with a manufacturer."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1784.585,"endTime":1786.835,"body":"What are fiducials and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1784.585,"endTime":1786.835,"body":"why are they useful?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1786.925,"endTime":1790.045,"body":"So, um, yeah, we'll link to that too."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":1790.045,"endTime":1791.245,"body":"We'll put that in the show notes too."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1791.365,"endTime":1794.125,"body":"What about if you're"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1791.365,"endTime":1794.125,"body":"using a matte soldermask"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1795.295,"endTime":1796.495,"body":"?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1795.295,"endTime":1796.495,"body":"Chris: Still, yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1796.505,"endTime":1810.235,"body":"Still recommend it because, um, matte"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1796.505,"endTime":1810.235,"body":"is still more reflective of matte"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1810.385,"endTime":1812.815,"body":"And the other thing is"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1810.385,"endTime":1812.815,"body":"you may change your mind."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1813.715,"endTime":1816.535,"body":"You may go, eh, I don't"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1813.715,"endTime":1816.535,"body":"really like the matte green."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1816.565,"endTime":1821.185,"body":"I want, you know, glossy black,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1816.565,"endTime":1821.185,"body":"and then it's like, okay, well now,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1821.755,"endTime":1822.535,"body":"You can't change it."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1822.625,"endTime":1824.215,"body":"You're stuck with your matte color."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1824.245,"endTime":1827.275,"body":"You, you can't change it to glossy now"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1824.245,"endTime":1827.275,"body":"because we can't see your fiducials."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1828.085,"endTime":1831.505,"body":"So yeah, it's just, it's"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1828.085,"endTime":1831.505,"body":"a good idea to do that."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1832.78,"endTime":1838.09,"body":"And you don't have to, like, you"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1832.78,"endTime":1838.09,"body":"don't have to like put up, put a soak"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1838.09,"endTime":1841.78,"body":"fit one or anything like that with,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1838.09,"endTime":1841.78,"body":"you know, you don't need to put a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1841.78,"endTime":1846.19,"body":"Like it's just a dumb feature"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1841.78,"endTime":1846.19,"body":"that we'll know exactly how"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1846.19,"endTime":1852.58,"body":"You'll know exactly what that thing"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1846.19,"endTime":1852.58,"body":"is when they see it, it's, it rings as"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1852.58,"endTime":1855.1,"body":"their salt knows exactly what you're"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1852.58,"endTime":1855.1,"body":"doing with that thing on the board."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1855.1,"endTime":1856.57,"body":"So, so don't worry about that."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1857.02,"endTime":1859.21,"body":"Um, we'll make use of it for sure."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1859.45,"endTime":1866.86,"body":"The other thing is like a lot of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1859.45,"endTime":1866.86,"body":"people are like, oh, well, aren't you"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1867.04,"endTime":1868.69,"body":"It's like, well, yeah, of course we are."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1868.93,"endTime":1880.24,"body":"But you know, things happen, you know,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1868.93,"endTime":1880.24,"body":"like we we've had these situations where"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1880.24,"endTime":1884.61,"body":"rail fiducials in the wrong position, but"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1880.24,"endTime":1884.61,"body":"they put the PCB fiducials in the correct."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1885.565,"endTime":1887.605,"body":"So we didn't have to"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1885.565,"endTime":1887.605,"body":"get a new stencil made."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1887.605,"endTime":1895.585,"body":"We were able to just use the PCB fiducials"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1887.605,"endTime":1895.585,"body":"to line up the stencil, um, uh, panels get"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1895.585,"endTime":1899.004,"body":"So we got a four panel, you know,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1895.585,"endTime":1899.004,"body":"two by two, uh, broken half."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1899.035,"endTime":1902.965,"body":"Well, we can still build them because now"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1899.035,"endTime":1902.965,"body":"we have fiduciary on the individual PCBs."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1902.965,"endTime":1907.195,"body":"We can shoot, you know,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1902.965,"endTime":1907.195,"body":"um, what else, what else?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1907.254,"endTime":1912.685,"body":"Uh, you know, things happen"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1907.254,"endTime":1912.685,"body":"and having more fiducials is"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1912.685,"endTime":1914.305,"body":"So yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1914.395,"endTime":1915.235,"body":"Get those on the board."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1916.735,"endTime":1918.445,"body":"Make Chris happy here."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1919.254,"endTime":1926.425,"body":"So let's talk about, we had another"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1919.254,"endTime":1926.425,"body":"issue recently with a customer where"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1926.425,"endTime":1933.085,"body":"board goes into like the exact dimensions"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1926.425,"endTime":1933.085,"body":"of their PCB, um, or vice versa."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1933.085,"endTime":1935.425,"body":"They made their PCB, the exact"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1933.085,"endTime":1935.425,"body":"dimensions of the enclosure."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1935.785,"endTime":1940.495,"body":"And it was, it was like, oh man,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1935.785,"endTime":1940.495,"body":"this is, it's just brutal because."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1941.38,"endTime":1948.55,"body":"First of all, keep in mind that even"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1941.38,"endTime":1948.55,"body":"the best fabs can only hold like a 10th"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1948.61,"endTime":1954.76,"body":"you know, on the edge of the PCB and the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1948.61,"endTime":1954.76,"body":"larger, the PCB gets the harder it becomes"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1955.45,"endTime":1960.52,"body":"And then when it goes through a reflow"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1955.45,"endTime":1960.52,"body":"of, and it's going to get stretched"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1960.94,"endTime":1964.78,"body":"And then maybe it goes through a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1960.94,"endTime":1964.78,"body":"wave solder or a selective solder,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1964.78,"endTime":1969.55,"body":"Or, you know, you put it in a thermal"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1964.78,"endTime":1969.55,"body":"chamber for testing or you like,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1969.55,"endTime":1973.57,"body":"going to change the size and shape of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1969.55,"endTime":1973.57,"body":"your PCB, not by a ton, but by enough."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1974.35,"endTime":1981.88,"body":"And if you're not careful and your"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1974.35,"endTime":1981.88,"body":"enclosure is, you know, you don't"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1982.93,"endTime":1984.61,"body":"You're going to, it's"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1982.93,"endTime":1984.61,"body":"going to be a nightmare."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1984.61,"endTime":1984.97,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1986.23,"endTime":1990.91,"body":"You definitely want to give yourself"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1986.23,"endTime":1990.91,"body":"a little bit of wiggle room on the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1991.48,"endTime":1994.57,"body":"Uh, it doesn't have to be"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1991.48,"endTime":1994.57,"body":"much, it could be a millimeter."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1994.78,"endTime":1998.2,"body":"It could even be half a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1994.78,"endTime":1998.2,"body":"millimeter, probably half a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1998.2,"endTime":1998.65,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1999.07,"endTime":2006.21,"body":"Um, but if you did a millimeter, that's"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":1999.07,"endTime":2006.21,"body":"probably, that's probably my cozy"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2006.25,"endTime":2013.59,"body":"uh, you know, limit to, uh, or, you"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2006.25,"endTime":2013.59,"body":"know, expansion of your enclosure or"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2013.98,"endTime":2020.64,"body":"So if you've got, if your enclosure"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2013.98,"endTime":2020.64,"body":"is, is, uh, you know, a hundred"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2021.03,"endTime":2021.84,"body":"If that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2022.29,"endTime":2023.07,"body":"Pretty simple, right?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2024.3,"endTime":2032.14,"body":"But let's say you've got some, you know,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2024.3,"endTime":2032.14,"body":"you know, like Chris I've, I'm making a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2032.46,"endTime":2038.31,"body":"I I've got these critical dimensions"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2032.46,"endTime":2038.31,"body":"that, that I need to make sure are"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2039.96,"endTime":2048.449,"body":"Well, you can always send us, uh, or"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2039.96,"endTime":2048.449,"body":"any cm or any fab, you can send them"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2048.48,"endTime":2051.42,"body":"these are my critical dimensions"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2048.48,"endTime":2051.42,"body":"that you see this line here."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2051.42,"endTime":2060.389,"body":"And this line here, you must maintain"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2051.42,"endTime":2060.389,"body":"100 millimeters between these two edges,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2060.389,"endTime":2065.79,"body":"If you send a drawing and you,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2060.389,"endTime":2065.79,"body":"you, and you define something as a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2066.029,"endTime":2071.19,"body":"there that's going to become, there's"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2066.029,"endTime":2071.19,"body":"going to be extra scrutiny and extra"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2071.61,"endTime":2073.949,"body":"It's going to affect"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2071.61,"endTime":2073.949,"body":"how it gets panelized."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2073.949,"endTime":2076.5,"body":"It's going to affect the way"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2073.949,"endTime":2076.5,"body":"that it gets held in the panel."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2076.949,"endTime":2080.52,"body":"There's going to be all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2076.949,"endTime":2080.52,"body":"things that we do to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2081.029,"endTime":2088.199,"body":"Um, it could increase the cost of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2081.029,"endTime":2088.199,"body":"your design because now maybe we"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2088.199,"endTime":2091.23,"body":"That's less expensive to assemble"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2088.199,"endTime":2091.23,"body":"because we can build more boards at once."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2091.23,"endTime":2094.62,"body":"Maybe we have to use smaller"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2091.23,"endTime":2094.62,"body":"panels now because we have to"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2095.61,"endTime":2100.68,"body":"So try not to like, ideally you"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2095.61,"endTime":2100.68,"body":"want to give yourself enough wiggle"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2100.68,"endTime":2105.03,"body":"critical dimensions, but if you do"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2100.68,"endTime":2105.03,"body":"just make them clear to us ahead of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2105.03,"endTime":2111.48,"body":"Cause that was, that was part"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2105.03,"endTime":2111.48,"body":"of the issue we had is we didn't"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2111.48,"endTime":2114.87,"body":"Had we known that ahead of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2111.48,"endTime":2114.87,"body":"time, we would have, we would"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2115.26,"endTime":2118.05,"body":"And, uh, they, they"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2115.26,"endTime":2118.05,"body":"would have good success."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2118.05,"endTime":2119.58,"body":"It was, it was a bummer."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2119.61,"endTime":2126.9,"body":"I felt bad about that situation,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2119.61,"endTime":2126.9,"body":"but yeah, if you go into it with"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2128.16,"endTime":2136.68,"body":"Uh, also related to the outline"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2128.16,"endTime":2136.68,"body":"of your PCB, try as much as"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2138.09,"endTime":2143.07,"body":"I know this may sound crazy cause"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2138.09,"endTime":2143.07,"body":"you like, you go to Adafruit and"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2143.07,"endTime":2148.425,"body":"flower shapes and you can make you"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2143.07,"endTime":2148.425,"body":"can make almost any shape you want."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2148.455,"endTime":2152.895,"body":"Like, I'll never forget somebody"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2148.455,"endTime":2152.895,"body":"made a Minnesota Vikings."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2153.375,"endTime":2159.495,"body":"Uh, you know, if you're not from the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2153.375,"endTime":2159.495,"body":"United States and Minnesota Vikings are a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2159.525,"endTime":2166.995,"body":"they have as their logo, this sort of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2159.525,"endTime":2166.995,"body":"like cartoonish looking Nordic Viking, you"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2166.995,"endTime":2174.465,"body":"And he's all angry looking cause"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2166.995,"endTime":2174.465,"body":"you know, it's football and uh,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2174.615,"endTime":2178.155,"body":"Like you can make some really"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2174.615,"endTime":2178.155,"body":"awesome shapes, but it's expensive."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2179.385,"endTime":2180.675,"body":"It's expensive to do that."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2180.915,"endTime":2187.365,"body":"But when you use a nice rectangular,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2180.915,"endTime":2187.365,"body":"uh, PCB, we can probably V score it."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2187.395,"endTime":2191.535,"body":"So if you're not familiar with what"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2187.395,"endTime":2191.535,"body":"the scoring is, it is basically."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2192.9,"endTime":2201.6,"body":"A or cutting a groove in, in the,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2192.9,"endTime":2201.6,"body":"uh, panel where two PCBs, but up"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2201.61,"endTime":2208.44,"body":"So, you know, say let's go back"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2201.61,"endTime":2208.44,"body":"to our a hundred millimeter by a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2208.44,"endTime":2212.25,"body":"And maybe like a three by four panel."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2212.7,"endTime":2212.97,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2212.97,"endTime":2216.72,"body":"So we have 300 by 400"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2212.97,"endTime":2216.72,"body":"becomes the panel size now."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2217.32,"endTime":2218.4,"body":"Um, and."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2219.225,"endTime":2221.055,"body":"That that makes it easier for us."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2221.055,"endTime":2225.194,"body":"Cause we have to, we, you know,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2221.055,"endTime":2225.194,"body":"when you move one PCB at a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2225.194,"endTime":2227.714,"body":"You've got to pay a human to"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2225.194,"endTime":2227.714,"body":"move each one of these PCBs."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2227.714,"endTime":2231.225,"body":"But when you can move 12 at a time,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2227.714,"endTime":2231.225,"body":"it's much less expensive, right?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2231.225,"endTime":2232.725,"body":"It's a lot less manual labor involved."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2232.725,"endTime":2233.805,"body":"That's why we panelize things."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2234.435,"endTime":2236.625,"body":"Well, if you cut a V groove into."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2237.53,"endTime":2242.42,"body":"Uh, into these, when you, when it"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2237.53,"endTime":2242.42,"body":"comes time to separate it V grooves"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2242.84,"endTime":2253.19,"body":"Um, they just, you can snap them in"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2242.84,"endTime":2253.19,"body":"half, just by hand or more commonly,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2253.19,"endTime":2263.3,"body":"And we'll complete the, the separation"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2253.19,"endTime":2263.3,"body":"of the PCB from each other using"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2263.3,"endTime":2266.27,"body":"And then using this blade,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2263.3,"endTime":2266.27,"body":"we complete the separation."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2266.27,"endTime":2268.76,"body":"It looks like, honestly, it"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2266.27,"endTime":2268.76,"body":"looks like, like a pizza slicer."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2268.79,"endTime":2276.77,"body":"Like that's about the, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2268.79,"endTime":2276.77,"body":"th there's another article we can"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2276.77,"endTime":2279.71,"body":"And we'll be sure to include"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2276.77,"endTime":2279.71,"body":"that in the show notes as well."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2280.25,"endTime":2286.67,"body":"Um, but if you have kind of like rounded"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2280.25,"endTime":2286.67,"body":"corners or you have some kind of odd"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2286.67,"endTime":2289.76,"body":"or, you know, it fits into kind of a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2286.67,"endTime":2289.76,"body":"crazy look and enclosure or something."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2290.27,"endTime":2292.01,"body":"Then we can't use V groups."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2292.04,"endTime":2293.09,"body":"We can't use V scores."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2293.48,"endTime":2294.74,"body":"We have to use."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2296.009,"endTime":2297.93,"body":"What's known as a routed process."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2297.93,"endTime":2305.129,"body":"So it's literally like a router,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2297.93,"endTime":2305.129,"body":"um, not, not a computer router,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2305.46,"endTime":2308.19,"body":"I don't, I grew up, my dad, you"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2305.46,"endTime":2308.19,"body":"know, did a lot of woodworking."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2308.19,"endTime":2310.109,"body":"So I knew exactly what"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2308.19,"endTime":2310.109,"body":"a router was growing up."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2310.5,"endTime":2316.83,"body":"But if you're not, it's like a very"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2310.5,"endTime":2316.83,"body":"high speed drill and you have a,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2316.83,"endTime":2321.899,"body":"of that high-speed drill that cuts,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2316.83,"endTime":2321.899,"body":"you know, uh, cuts away at material."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2322.649,"endTime":2328.2,"body":"So when they route a PCB that the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2322.649,"endTime":2328.2,"body":"super high speed drill is going to"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2328.2,"endTime":2333.06,"body":"edge of your PCB, or, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2328.2,"endTime":2333.06,"body":"you've got it round, it's going to walk"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2333.629,"endTime":2333.72,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2334.47,"endTime":2338.16,"body":"When we're putting this 100 millimeter"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2334.47,"endTime":2338.16,"body":"by 100 millimeter circle now."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2338.22,"endTime":2338.49,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2338.49,"endTime":2340.14,"body":"So we're not using a rectangle anymore."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2340.14,"endTime":2342.81,"body":"We're using a 100 millimeter"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2340.14,"endTime":2342.81,"body":"diameter diameter circle."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2343.5,"endTime":2345.57,"body":"We're still want to put that"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2343.5,"endTime":2345.57,"body":"in a three by four panel."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2345.63,"endTime":2347.73,"body":"We still don't want to"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2345.63,"endTime":2347.73,"body":"handle one board at a time."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2347.73,"endTime":2357.33,"body":"We want to handle 12 boards at a time, but"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2347.73,"endTime":2357.33,"body":"the only way to do that is to route the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2357.33,"endTime":2364.38,"body":"Cause they kind of look like,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2357.33,"endTime":2364.38,"body":"like if a mouse bit, you know,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2364.38,"endTime":2365.25,"body":"That's kind of what it looks like."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2365.25,"endTime":2367.08,"body":"So everybody's just"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2365.25,"endTime":2367.08,"body":"always called mouse bites."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2367.08,"endTime":2377.28,"body":"But anyway, um, they're like a perforated"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2367.08,"endTime":2377.28,"body":"tab that break off the edge of your"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2378.3,"endTime":2386.49,"body":"But the problem is where it's"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2378.3,"endTime":2386.49,"body":"broken off leaves this kind of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2386.88,"endTime":2393.15,"body":"Um, like we're, we're all the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2386.88,"endTime":2393.15,"body":"little perforations are you"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2393.9,"endTime":2394.56,"body":"Sticking out."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2395.01,"endTime":2397.35,"body":"So you don't have a true circle anymore."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2397.35,"endTime":2404.28,"body":"You still have these annoying little,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2397.35,"endTime":2404.28,"body":"you know, re you know, remnants of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2404.28,"endTime":2407.34,"body":"sticking out the edge of the,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2404.28,"endTime":2407.34,"body":"uh, of the, of the board outline."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2407.88,"endTime":2413.73,"body":"Well, that can become a problem,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2407.88,"endTime":2413.73,"body":"because what if your enclosure is,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2413.73,"endTime":2417.93,"body":"by a hundred millimeter, you know,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2413.73,"endTime":2417.93,"body":"it's gotta be it's Chris, you know,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2417.93,"endTime":2419.79,"body":"I gotta make sure this is a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2417.93,"endTime":2419.79,"body":"perfect circle or whatever."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2420.12,"endTime":2426.21,"body":"Um, we're, we're going to have"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2420.12,"endTime":2426.21,"body":"problems trying to achieve that because"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2426.21,"endTime":2434.16,"body":"way to solve that is by literally"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2426.21,"endTime":2434.16,"body":"filing them, like, like, like a nail"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2434.52,"endTime":2434.85,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2434.88,"endTime":2436.8,"body":"Manually filing these things away."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2437.46,"endTime":2445.08,"body":"Um, or we've even like in the worst cases"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2437.46,"endTime":2445.08,"body":"we've, we've used, uh, um, like a belt."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2445.92,"endTime":2454.26,"body":"You know, very carefully, but use"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2445.92,"endTime":2454.26,"body":"like a benchtop belt sander, and kind"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2454.47,"endTime":2455.28,"body":"It's awful."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2455.58,"endTime":2458.34,"body":"Like you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2455.58,"endTime":2458.34,"body":"pay somebody to do this."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2458.34,"endTime":2460.98,"body":"Trust me, like, this is"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2458.34,"endTime":2460.98,"body":"just a waste of time."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2460.98,"endTime":2462.09,"body":"It's a waste of money."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2462.39,"endTime":2463.5,"body":"Nobody wants to do it."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2463.53,"endTime":2468.63,"body":"Like, nobody's like, you know what I"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2463.53,"endTime":2468.63,"body":"want to be when I grow up, I want to"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2469.23,"endTime":2469.65,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2470.1,"endTime":2472.68,"body":"No, like nobody wants to do that job."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2473.25,"endTime":2477.78,"body":"Um, I'm grateful for the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2473.25,"endTime":2477.78,"body":"people that do that job."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2477.84,"endTime":2487.59,"body":"Uh, and you know, EV I got to tell"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2477.84,"endTime":2487.59,"body":"you, the culture at Weddington assembly"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2487.59,"endTime":2492.18,"body":"that job is, but anybody in the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2487.59,"endTime":2492.18,"body":"building at Worthington would just be"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2492.39,"endTime":2493.68,"body":"Like, nobody's going to whine about it."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2493.68,"endTime":2494.85,"body":"Like we just get stuff done."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2494.91,"endTime":2495.84,"body":"It's, it's awesome."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2495.93,"endTime":2499.05,"body":"But, but at the end of the day, you know,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2495.93,"endTime":2499.05,"body":"that that's kind of a waste of time."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2499.05,"endTime":2500.28,"body":"Like it's a poor design."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2500.43,"endTime":2511.135,"body":"If you have to take these things off,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2500.43,"endTime":2511.135,"body":"um, well, I worked with a customer"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2511.225,"endTime":2520.705,"body":"Uh, well, uh, consumer ish, it was"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2511.225,"endTime":2520.705,"body":"for retailers and, um, it, uh, it had"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2520.705,"endTime":2527.035,"body":"and it was really, you know, it was"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2520.705,"endTime":2527.035,"body":"very user facing, so they wanted it to"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2527.035,"endTime":2528.625,"body":"And so they couldn't use a nice rectangle."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2528.625,"endTime":2533.875,"body":"Like I always recommend they had to"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2528.625,"endTime":2533.875,"body":"have it in this particular shape and"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2533.875,"endTime":2538.555,"body":"them and I'm like, look, guys, this"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2533.875,"endTime":2538.555,"body":"is crazy trying to file off each of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2538.945,"endTime":2548.515,"body":"And they, they came to us first"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2538.945,"endTime":2548.515,"body":"and they said, Hey, what if we"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2548.545,"endTime":2553.435,"body":"Like, what if we do like a little cutout"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2548.545,"endTime":2553.435,"body":"where you can put those perforated tabs?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2553.435,"endTime":2557.215,"body":"So once you snap them off, they're"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2553.435,"endTime":2557.215,"body":"not proud of that edge anymore."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2557.485,"endTime":2559.105,"body":"And it'll fit inside our enclosure."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2559.135,"endTime":2559.735,"body":"No problem."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2559.735,"endTime":2560.415,"body":"We won't have these."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2561.21,"endTime":2566.28,"body":"You know, nubbin sticking out"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2561.21,"endTime":2566.28,"body":"and making it difficult for us"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2566.91,"endTime":2574.11,"body":"And that's the technical term,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2566.91,"endTime":2574.11,"body":"not just ask Carol she'll, she'll"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2574.14,"endTime":2578.07,"body":"Carol loves to use the word"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2574.14,"endTime":2578.07,"body":"nubbins for little, little"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2578.67,"endTime":2581.31,"body":"Um, everybody knows what they"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2578.67,"endTime":2581.31,"body":"are, as soon as you use the term."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2581.31,"endTime":2581.7,"body":"You're like, yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2581.73,"endTime":2582.12,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2582.15,"endTime":2582.63,"body":"It's another one."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2582.69,"endTime":2583.89,"body":"Of course it is."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2584.55,"endTime":2587.19,"body":"Um, but yeah, you don't have"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2584.55,"endTime":2587.19,"body":"those things getting in the way."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2587.19,"endTime":2604.56,"body":"So I have had in my, my, my drafts folder"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2587.19,"endTime":2604.56,"body":"of, of our blogging software, a draft of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2604.56,"endTime":2614.37,"body":"three years ago about the process to"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2604.56,"endTime":2614.37,"body":"recess the PCBs or recess the edge of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2615.135,"endTime":2616.665,"body":"Podcast is going to be recorded today."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2616.665,"endTime":2618.015,"body":"I finally published it today."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2619.935,"endTime":2621.765,"body":"So it's officially out in the wild."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2622.245,"endTime":2626.475,"body":"Um, you can find on our website,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2622.245,"endTime":2626.475,"body":"reassessing your piece would"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2626.475,"endTime":2627.795,"body":"We'll include it in the show notes too."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2628.305,"endTime":2635.175,"body":"Um, but this is a great way of maintaining"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2628.305,"endTime":2635.175,"body":"sort of those critical dimensions"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2635.175,"endTime":2640.245,"body":"time, you know, not forcing a bunch"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2635.175,"endTime":2640.245,"body":"of manual labor to get it that way."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2641.415,"endTime":2641.835,"body":"I love it."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2642.015,"endTime":2643.955,"body":"I just thought it was a brilliant idea."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2644.085,"endTime":2650.955,"body":"And I, and I, and I just decided"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2644.085,"endTime":2650.955,"body":"to steal it, you know, unreservedly"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2652.185,"endTime":2658.785,"body":"It would be funny if, uh, the original"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2652.185,"endTime":2658.785,"body":"engineer who, who worked with us on this"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2658.785,"endTime":2660.075,"body":"He's talking about my product."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2661.365,"endTime":2668.715,"body":"If anybody's ever ordered a PCB from"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2661.365,"endTime":2668.715,"body":"OSH park, a fantastic PCB prototyping"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2669.195,"endTime":2673.845,"body":"Um, they, uh, they always"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2669.195,"endTime":2673.845,"body":"send you no matter what."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2674.669,"endTime":2676.95,"body":"They send you your boards"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2674.669,"endTime":2676.95,"body":"with these perforated tabs."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2676.95,"endTime":2678.299,"body":"And sometimes they don't"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2676.95,"endTime":2678.299,"body":"even break them off."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2678.299,"endTime":2679.62,"body":"Sometimes they leave them right on there."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2679.68,"endTime":2681.45,"body":"At least we have the decency"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2679.68,"endTime":2681.45,"body":"of breaking them off."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2682.95,"endTime":2690.33,"body":"Um, and, and so if, if you've ever"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2682.95,"endTime":2690.33,"body":"gotten boards from OSH park, you know"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2690.33,"endTime":2697.529,"body":"So make sure to, you know, keep this in"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2690.33,"endTime":2697.529,"body":"mind when you have an odd shape of a PCB"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2697.529,"endTime":2701.519,"body":"it is to just reach out to us ahead of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2697.529,"endTime":2701.519,"body":"time and say, Hey, I've got an odd shape."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2702.419,"endTime":2703.68,"body":"I have these critical dimensions."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2703.83,"endTime":2708.359,"body":"I can't deal with, you know, these"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2703.83,"endTime":2708.359,"body":"perforated tabs, what can we do about it?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2708.72,"endTime":2716.399,"body":"And it's not as simple as like you just"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2708.72,"endTime":2716.399,"body":"defining where you want the perforated"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2716.64,"endTime":2722.37,"body":"you actually have to, it has to be a"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2716.64,"endTime":2722.37,"body":"collaboration between the designer,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2722.43,"endTime":2731.759,"body":"All three parties have to be"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2722.43,"endTime":2731.759,"body":"involved in working up this design"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2732.495,"endTime":2733.365,"body":"PCB fab."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2734.085,"endTime":2742.635,"body":"And then how we, you know, where your"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2734.085,"endTime":2742.635,"body":"perforated tabs are and how many of them"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2742.635,"endTime":2746.595,"body":"It will also have an impact on the fab"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2742.635,"endTime":2746.595,"body":"process, but it will have a significant"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2746.595,"endTime":2752.775,"body":"Because if you only use a couple little"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2746.595,"endTime":2752.775,"body":"tabs and you got a great big giant"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2752.775,"endTime":2759.404,"body":"You might need 3, 4, 5, 6, 7,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2752.775,"endTime":2759.404,"body":"know, 10 tabs to hold your,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2759.825,"endTime":2763.234,"body":"So we really need to kinda,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2759.825,"endTime":2763.234,"body":"you gotta kind of have to go."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2763.274,"endTime":2763.575,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2763.575,"endTime":2765.495,"body":"So here's, here's my rough design."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2765.495,"endTime":2766.515,"body":"Here's my outline."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2767.745,"endTime":2769.965,"body":"Let's talk to the F let's"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2767.745,"endTime":2769.965,"body":"talk to the assembly house."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2770.684,"endTime":2772.755,"body":"What, what panel size works for them?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2772.934,"endTime":2774.904,"body":"They'll talk to the fab"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2772.934,"endTime":2774.904,"body":"house, the fab house."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2774.925,"endTime":2776.625,"body":"We'll figure out what"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2774.925,"endTime":2776.625,"body":"panel size works for them."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2776.625,"endTime":2782.474,"body":"They'll agree on kind of the overall, you"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2776.625,"endTime":2782.474,"body":"know, is it going to be a two by two or"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2783.104,"endTime":2786.675,"body":"And then we'll say, okay, we"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2783.104,"endTime":2786.675,"body":"want to put perforated tabs here."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2786.915,"endTime":2788.234,"body":"And then you go back to the designer."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2788.264,"endTime":2789.764,"body":"Can we put perforated tabs here?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2790.005,"endTime":2791.955,"body":"And you'll say, you can put"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2790.005,"endTime":2791.955,"body":"them here, here and here."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2791.984,"endTime":2793.245,"body":"But this one you have here."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2793.575,"endTime":2798.944,"body":"I can't, you know, I, I've got"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2793.575,"endTime":2798.944,"body":"to put my Bluetooth radio, you"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2798.944,"endTime":2800.715,"body":"And so it's like, okay, well, all right."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2800.715,"endTime":2804.404,"body":"So back to back to the assembly and fab,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2800.715,"endTime":2804.404,"body":"all right, we got to move this one over."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2804.404,"endTime":2805.455,"body":"Can we move this one over?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2805.665,"endTime":2806.774,"body":"And then we go back to the designer?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2806.774,"endTime":2807.075,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2807.075,"endTime":2807.404,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2807.404,"endTime":2817.234,"body":"Everything looks good and all through"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2807.404,"endTime":2817.234,"body":"once all three parties agree on how to do"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2818.399,"endTime":2824.49,"body":"He can include a drawing too, of the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2818.399,"endTime":2824.49,"body":"importance of putting the perforated"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2824.79,"endTime":2826.649,"body":"And then he's going to be very happy."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2826.649,"endTime":2829.62,"body":"Every, you know, boards are going to ship,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2826.649,"endTime":2829.62,"body":"they're going to be easy to panelize."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2829.95,"endTime":2831.96,"body":"We're not going to have to"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2829.95,"endTime":2831.96,"body":"spend time filing these things."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2831.96,"endTime":2832.95,"body":"They're going to fit in the enclosure."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2832.95,"endTime":2833.639,"body":"Just fine."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2834.059,"endTime":2834.75,"body":"It's going to be great."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2834.779,"endTime":2837.84,"body":"So that's, um, it's a cool process."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2837.84,"endTime":2843.359,"body":"We've had a lot of success with it, with"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2837.84,"endTime":2843.359,"body":"a number of customers over the years and"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2844.889,"endTime":2845.279,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2845.58,"endTime":2846.42,"body":"Yeah, that's really clever."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2847.95,"endTime":2849.24,"body":"I want to have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2847.95,"endTime":2849.24,"body":"more episodes like this."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2849.24,"endTime":2854.189,"body":"Just kind of like a quick"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2849.24,"endTime":2854.189,"body":"takes on, you know, layout"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2854.189,"endTime":2855.99,"body":"I think, I think there"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2854.189,"endTime":2855.99,"body":"should be a part one."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2856.47,"endTime":2856.92,"body":"I agree."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2857.34,"endTime":2859.17,"body":"And then in like three years"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2857.34,"endTime":2859.17,"body":"we'll have like a part two,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2862.2,"endTime":2865.439,"body":"well, lots of other"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2862.2,"endTime":2865.439,"body":"advice before that's right."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2865.859,"endTime":2866.22,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2866.729,"endTime":2866.939,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2866.939,"endTime":2867.779,"body":"And you mentioned."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2868.649,"endTime":2876.3,"body":"We also want to take this, take"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2868.649,"endTime":2876.3,"body":"all these tips and, you know, make"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2877.38,"endTime":2877.74,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2878.069,"endTime":2887.49,"body":"Which I actually just did for the,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2878.069,"endTime":2887.49,"body":"um, SMT or through whole episode"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2888.259,"endTime":2888.529,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2889.814,"endTime":2889.995,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2890.715,"endTime":2891.045,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2891.075,"endTime":2896.354,"body":"More of those we get, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2891.075,"endTime":2896.354,"body":"do get requests from time to time"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2896.354,"endTime":2896.774,"body":"I love it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2896.774,"endTime":2898.694,"body":"You know, but I'm like driving"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2896.774,"endTime":2898.694,"body":"when I'm listening to it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2898.694,"endTime":2901.305,"body":"And then I forget like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2898.694,"endTime":2901.305,"body":"did he say three millimeters?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2901.305,"endTime":2902.475,"body":"Did he say five millimeters?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2902.475,"endTime":2905.265,"body":"And could, could you, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2902.475,"endTime":2905.265,"body":"know, write it down somewhere?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2905.265,"endTime":2912.585,"body":"Could you, you know, have pictures"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2905.265,"endTime":2912.585,"body":"or notes showing, you know, these"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2912.585,"endTime":2918.135,"body":"easier to talk about it than it is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2912.585,"endTime":2918.135,"body":"to write it all down, but we got"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2918.194,"endTime":2920.325,"body":"It's um, I'm, I'm glad"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2918.194,"endTime":2920.325,"body":"you're starting to do that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2920.325,"endTime":2927.795,"body":"And, uh, you know, get me involved"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2920.325,"endTime":2927.795,"body":"and don't be afraid to just give me"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2928.215,"endTime":2929.024,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2930.104,"endTime":2930.585,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2930.795,"endTime":2934.575,"body":"I think it's time for the most, the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2930.795,"endTime":2934.575,"body":"most important part of the show."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2935.934,"endTime":2937.555,"body":"I'm so excited about this one."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2938.425,"endTime":2942.654,"body":"Now this is, this"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2938.425,"endTime":2942.654,"body":"is low-hanging fruit."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2942.745,"endTime":2943.705,"body":"I understand."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2943.705,"endTime":2951.444,"body":"Like, I, I, the reason I love my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2943.705,"endTime":2951.444,"body":"pet peeve on printers and perforated"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2951.474,"endTime":2956.575,"body":"is because they're like these weird"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2951.474,"endTime":2956.575,"body":"nuance things that nobody ever thinks"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2957.564,"endTime":2963.444,"body":"But this one, lots of people complain"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2957.564,"endTime":2963.444,"body":"about, but I am wholeheartedly"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2963.444,"endTime":2968.635,"body":"that is America's lack of complete"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2963.444,"endTime":2968.635,"body":"adoption of the metric system."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2969.205,"endTime":2973.045,"body":"Now we've adopted some of the"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2969.205,"endTime":2973.045,"body":"metric system, but not all of it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2973.104,"endTime":2975.865,"body":"And it drives me crazy."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2976.465,"endTime":2978.894,"body":"It's it's just, okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2978.955,"endTime":2980.035,"body":"Let me give you an example."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2981.175,"endTime":2990.354,"body":"When you go to buy milk at a grocery"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2981.175,"endTime":2990.354,"body":"store here in the United States,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":2991.734,"endTime":2992.335,"body":"A gallon."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2995.055,"endTime":2995.625,"body":"Or quart."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2995.685,"endTime":2995.925,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":2996.194,"endTime":2997.875,"body":"W which did you, okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3000.455,"endTime":3002.825,"body":"I did not know what a quart of milk was."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3003.274,"endTime":3003.814,"body":"I did not know."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3003.814,"endTime":3004.265,"body":"Excuse me."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3004.385,"endTime":3008.765,"body":"I did not know what a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3004.385,"endTime":3008.765,"body":"court was for decades."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3008.944,"endTime":3012.215,"body":"Not until I want to say"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3008.944,"endTime":3012.215,"body":"like maybe a year ago."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3012.665,"endTime":3014.404,"body":"I probably not even quite a year ago."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3014.404,"endTime":3016.654,"body":"Did I finally know what a quart measured?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3016.715,"endTime":3017.734,"body":"Do you know what a quart is?"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3020.524,"endTime":3020.885,"body":"No,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3021.455,"endTime":3022.505,"body":"it's a quarter gallon."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3024.095,"endTime":3024.785,"body":"That's all it is."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3027.095,"endTime":3028.234,"body":"See, I'm not alone."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3028.745,"endTime":3031.385,"body":"I was like, why not call it a quarter?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3032.194,"endTime":3032.435,"body":"Wait."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3032.435,"endTime":3032.795,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3032.944,"endTime":3034.085,"body":"Why not call it one fourth?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3034.505,"endTime":3035.735,"body":"Why are you going to call it a quart?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3036.305,"endTime":3047.715,"body":"Oh, I it's just, I it's a quarter"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3036.305,"endTime":3047.715,"body":"gallon for courts is a gallon it's it's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3047.925,"endTime":3049.545,"body":"Unless it sounds like you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3047.925,"endTime":3049.545,"body":"didn't know that either."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3049.575,"endTime":3051.345,"body":"I I'm certain we're not alone here."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3051.345,"endTime":3053.984,"body":"There's probably a lot of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3051.345,"endTime":3053.984,"body":"people that don't know that"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3054.314,"endTime":3054.734,"body":"It's just the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3054.734,"endTime":3057.825,"body":"size of a small"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3054.734,"endTime":3057.825,"body":"milk that is to me."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3057.975,"endTime":3058.455,"body":"Right,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3058.515,"endTime":3058.785,"body":"right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3058.785,"endTime":3062.115,"body":"You know, it looks okay,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3058.785,"endTime":3062.115,"body":"but what is okay, Melissa?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3062.144,"endTime":3066.375,"body":"You, you, you've got, you've got"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3062.144,"endTime":3066.375,"body":"a gallon of milk in your, in your"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3066.585,"endTime":3070.935,"body":"Now you want to get, you know, uh, uh,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3066.585,"endTime":3070.935,"body":"uh, your partner really likes soda."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3071.175,"endTime":3072.734,"body":"So we're going to go get him some soda."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3073.035,"endTime":3077.625,"body":"And, and what size container are"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3073.035,"endTime":3077.625,"body":"you going to buy that soda and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3077.625,"endTime":3077.894,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3078.8,"endTime":3079.76,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3080.689,"endTime":3083.809,"body":"And every American listening to this is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3080.689,"endTime":3083.809,"body":"going to be like, yeah, of course you buy."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3083.87,"endTime":3084.05,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3084.08,"endTime":3086.12,"body":"That's what soda comes in,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3084.08,"endTime":3086.12,"body":"comes in two liter bottle."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3087.109,"endTime":3089.84,"body":"It's not that we can't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3087.109,"endTime":3089.84,"body":"adopt the metric system."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3089.84,"endTime":3093.08,"body":"It's not like there's anything"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3089.84,"endTime":3093.08,"body":"inherently different about Americans."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3093.08,"endTime":3098.66,"body":"That for whatever reason, we just can't"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3093.08,"endTime":3098.66,"body":"rep wrap our poor little minds around,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3098.66,"endTime":3107.779,"body":"an hour, it's just like for whatever"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3098.66,"endTime":3107.779,"body":"reason we've refused to, until it"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3107.96,"endTime":3113.96,"body":"And you see, once you get used"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3107.96,"endTime":3113.96,"body":"to a certain unit of measurement,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3114.05,"endTime":3116.63,"body":"When you buy soda, you buy"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3114.05,"endTime":3116.63,"body":"a two liter bottle of soda."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3116.63,"endTime":3118.7,"body":"When you buy milk, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3116.63,"endTime":3118.7,"body":"buy a gallon of milk."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3118.91,"endTime":3122.21,"body":"If milk came in a leader, you would"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3118.91,"endTime":3122.21,"body":"just know, oh, this is a liter of milk."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3122.21,"endTime":3123.559,"body":"This is a two liter thing of milk."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3123.559,"endTime":3125.24,"body":"Like it's not going to be confusing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3125.45,"endTime":3127.399,"body":"It'll be confusing for like a week."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3127.58,"endTime":3128.54,"body":"And then you'll get used to it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3129.559,"endTime":3130.67,"body":"Like we should just."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3131.585,"endTime":3137.644,"body":"Done just eliminate all the,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3131.585,"endTime":3137.644,"body":"the English measurement system,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3137.644,"endTime":3139.264,"body":"What do, what do we even"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3137.644,"endTime":3139.264,"body":"call this thing anymore?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3139.354,"endTime":3139.804,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3140.045,"endTime":3141.245,"body":"Antiquated is what we call it."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3142.825,"endTime":3144.484,"body":"You're just"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3142.825,"endTime":3144.484,"body":"talking about everything."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3144.484,"endTime":3145.024,"body":"I'm guessing"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3145.054,"endTime":3145.835,"body":"for everything."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3145.984,"endTime":3149.464,"body":"Like, like this whole episode, I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3145.984,"endTime":3149.464,"body":"kept having to say millimeters."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3149.495,"endTime":3150.365,"body":"Oh, and mills."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3151.054,"endTime":3151.415,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3151.774,"endTime":3158.045,"body":"And, and, and, and here's the worst part"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3151.774,"endTime":3158.045,"body":"when, cause we have a lot of, we have a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3158.285,"endTime":3162.694,"body":"When we say a mill to them, to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3158.285,"endTime":3162.694,"body":"them, it means a millimeter, right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3162.694,"endTime":3163.804,"body":"Because what is a mill?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3163.804,"endTime":3166.955,"body":"A mill is a million or, or really,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3163.804,"endTime":3166.955,"body":"excuse me, it's not a million."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3167.014,"endTime":3167.734,"body":"It's a, it's a."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3169.01,"endTime":3172.25,"body":"Oh, that's even more confusing, but"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3169.01,"endTime":3172.25,"body":"it's millennium thousand, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3172.279,"endTime":3173.09,"body":"That's why it's a mill."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3173.479,"endTime":3176.12,"body":"Anyway, it's a thousandth of a dimension."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3176.24,"endTime":3182.149,"body":"So a mill in metric is a millimeter"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3176.24,"endTime":3182.149,"body":"because it is 1000 millimeters in a meter."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3182.21,"endTime":3183.05,"body":"Of course it makes sense."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3183.08,"endTime":3188.93,"body":"So when you say, oh, this has to be"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3183.08,"endTime":3188.93,"body":"10 mil to a person from England, then"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3189.229,"endTime":3193.609,"body":"If you tell an American, this has"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3189.229,"endTime":3193.609,"body":"to be 10 mill, then they're going"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3194.12,"endTime":3198.92,"body":"Completely different dimension,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3194.12,"endTime":3198.92,"body":"not even close to each other, but"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3199.79,"endTime":3202.849,"body":"So yeah, just it's, it's awful."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3202.849,"endTime":3204.529,"body":"It's really seriously awful."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3204.979,"endTime":3207.649,"body":"Uh, and you know what, like."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3208.759,"endTime":3215.089,"body":"Millions and millions of dollars of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3208.759,"endTime":3215.089,"body":"mistakes have come out of this where"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3215.569,"endTime":3221.599,"body":"Um, I, before the show, I, I"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3215.569,"endTime":3221.599,"body":"found an article about there was"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3221.63,"endTime":3223.279,"body":"Well, not, I shouldn't call it a disaster."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3223.279,"endTime":3224.99,"body":"I don't think anybody"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3223.279,"endTime":3224.99,"body":"lost their life from it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3224.99,"endTime":3230.45,"body":"But, um, you know, they lost millions of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3224.99,"endTime":3230.45,"body":"dollars worth of equipment because they"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3230.45,"endTime":3234.17,"body":"didn't do the conversion properly between"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3230.45,"endTime":3234.17,"body":"the standard units and the metric units."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3234.62,"endTime":3240.139,"body":"Um, there, there was actually a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3234.62,"endTime":3240.139,"body":"Canadian airline that ran out of fuel"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3240.649,"endTime":3243.95,"body":"one system and didn't yeah, they're"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3240.649,"endTime":3243.95,"body":"like mid air ran out of fuel."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3244.969,"endTime":3245.719,"body":"I think they landed."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3246.319,"endTime":3252.17,"body":"Pretty sure they landed, but, um,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3246.319,"endTime":3252.17,"body":"still, and, and it's like, okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3252.2,"endTime":3259.7,"body":"So I, I, uh, I know Melissa, you, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3252.2,"endTime":3259.7,"body":"have traveled and I've, and I've traveled"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3259.7,"endTime":3265.129,"body":"where they they've adopted the metric"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3259.7,"endTime":3265.129,"body":"system, you know, four hours that can be"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3265.819,"endTime":3268.849,"body":"Uh, but I spent three weeks in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3265.819,"endTime":3268.849,"body":"Australia a couple of years ago."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3269.929,"endTime":3272.63,"body":"Zero problems adjusting"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3269.929,"endTime":3272.63,"body":"to the metric system."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3272.689,"endTime":3282.139,"body":"Like within a couple of days, like you got"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3272.689,"endTime":3282.139,"body":"used to, you know, what was a comfortable"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3282.139,"endTime":3285.679,"body":"I got used to buying milk"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3282.139,"endTime":3285.679,"body":"and a particular size."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3285.74,"endTime":3292.34,"body":"And you know, you know, when you order"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3285.74,"endTime":3292.34,"body":"coffee, you want 300 mils know, that's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3292.34,"endTime":3293.599,"body":"It's not, but you call it mill."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3293.599,"endTime":3295.429,"body":"Is that a 300 mil coffee or whatever?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3295.969,"endTime":3298.189,"body":"Um, it's not hard to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3295.969,"endTime":3298.189,"body":"adjust to these things."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3298.309,"endTime":3298.58,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3298.639,"endTime":3301.01,"body":"In kilometers an hour, a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3298.639,"endTime":3301.01,"body":"hundred kilometers an hour."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3301.01,"endTime":3301.91,"body":"It's like, it's easy."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3301.91,"endTime":3303.859,"body":"It's super easy to get adjusted to."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3304.34,"endTime":3310.58,"body":"I, and the argument is that everybody"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3304.34,"endTime":3310.58,"body":"makes is, it's like, okay, well now we"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3310.58,"endTime":3312.2,"body":"So that they're nice round numbers."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3312.29,"endTime":3312.92,"body":"No, you don't."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3313.25,"endTime":3313.819,"body":"No, you don't."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3313.939,"endTime":3319.88,"body":"You just start selling it as a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3313.939,"endTime":3319.88,"body":"355 milliliter can, which is 12"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3320.12,"endTime":3323.0,"body":"So it's kind of annoying"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3320.12,"endTime":3323.0,"body":"to say 355 milliliters."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3323.0,"endTime":3327.279,"body":"So what, so what can we please"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3323.0,"endTime":3327.279,"body":"just, can we please just this."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3328.234,"endTime":3328.384,"body":"Uh,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3331.474,"endTime":3334.594,"body":"I'm just so tech, like okay."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3334.654,"endTime":3339.394,"body":"For example, and a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3334.654,"endTime":3339.394,"body":"will say like, oh, well just quit"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3339.455,"endTime":3340.594,"body":"And this just is the way it is."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3340.745,"endTime":3344.795,"body":"Well, imagine if there was like two"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3340.745,"endTime":3344.795,"body":"different ways of measuring time."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3346.745,"endTime":3346.984,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3346.984,"endTime":3347.615,"body":"Like, oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3347.644,"endTime":3356.554,"body":"Well, you know, uh, if you go to, if"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3347.644,"endTime":3356.554,"body":"you go to England, they don't measure"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3356.884,"endTime":3359.224,"body":"And it's like, we have"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3356.884,"endTime":3359.224,"body":"standards for a reason."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3359.314,"endTime":3363.245,"body":"Like, let's like we have a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3359.314,"endTime":3363.245,"body":"10 based numbering system."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3363.274,"endTime":3370.174,"body":"You, there's not a country that uses like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3363.274,"endTime":3370.174,"body":"a 16 based numbering system except for"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3370.745,"endTime":3375.335,"body":"Um, but like everywhere in the world,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3370.745,"endTime":3375.335,"body":"we use a 10 base numbering system."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3375.365,"endTime":3379.505,"body":"Nobody uses anything, but a 10"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3375.365,"endTime":3379.505,"body":"based numbering system for math and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3379.505,"endTime":3383.944,"body":"So like this is standards"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3379.505,"endTime":3383.944,"body":"or is it there for a reason?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3384.514,"endTime":3385.535,"body":"Can we all just get on board?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3386.345,"endTime":3387.455,"body":"With the metric standard."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3387.755,"endTime":3389.404,"body":"Oh, that's what it called freedom units."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3392.075,"endTime":3396.635,"body":"And that's sort of the, that's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3392.075,"endTime":3396.635,"body":"sorta like the passive aggressive"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3396.635,"endTime":3397.474,"body":"Freedom units."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3400.595,"endTime":3404.974,"body":"That's the word I was trying to think of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3400.595,"endTime":3404.974,"body":"earlier because 'Merica and our freedom"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3406.604,"endTime":3407.594,"body":"leave it to America."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3407.834,"endTime":3408.104,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3408.104,"endTime":3411.434,"body":"That it would somehow it would turn"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3408.104,"endTime":3411.434,"body":"into like a, a political thing."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3412.724,"endTime":3416.174,"body":"Oh, it's, it's, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3412.724,"endTime":3416.174,"body":"there's some politics behind it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3416.174,"endTime":3416.984,"body":"I'm sure there is."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3416.984,"endTime":3418.334,"body":"I'm sure there is."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3418.364,"endTime":3428.174,"body":"There's got to be some, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3418.364,"endTime":3428.174,"body":"politician, they got paid off by some"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3428.174,"endTime":3433.544,"body":"convert all of my, you know, if I'm"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3428.174,"endTime":3433.544,"body":"going to make a Fox body Mustang,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3433.544,"endTime":3436.634,"body":"And I don't know, it's just right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3436.634,"endTime":3442.034,"body":"Cause wasn't it like the eighties"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3436.634,"endTime":3442.034,"body":"when America decided to convert"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3443.624,"endTime":3448.604,"body":"That's why, like some things like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3443.624,"endTime":3448.604,"body":"some industries, like soda went"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3449.114,"endTime":3449.444,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3449.474,"endTime":3450.134,"body":"Well, okay."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3450.164,"endTime":3454.364,"body":"So I guess that's kind of, I mentioned I"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3450.164,"endTime":3454.364,"body":"had a, like a little tangent off of that."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3454.394,"endTime":3456.884,"body":"Um, and I think you might've"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3454.394,"endTime":3456.884,"body":"listened to the same thing, but yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3456.914,"endTime":3464.894,"body":"When the Canadians converted to metric,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3456.914,"endTime":3464.894,"body":"I think in the sixties or seventies,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3464.894,"endTime":3471.494,"body":"industry was like, well, now we would"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3464.894,"endTime":3471.494,"body":"have to re redesign all of our tooling and"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3471.494,"endTime":3473.144,"body":"And that's why they started using bags."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3474.074,"endTime":3475.034,"body":"Cause it's all, it was a lot."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3475.184,"endTime":3475.364,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3475.364,"endTime":3480.794,"body":"It was a lot easier to just,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3475.364,"endTime":3480.794,"body":"you can fill up the bag as"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3480.794,"endTime":3483.794,"body":"And then yeah, he used the bag and"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3480.794,"endTime":3483.794,"body":"said, so they didn't have to make."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3485.009,"endTime":3489.659,"body":"I think I did listen to this and"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3485.009,"endTime":3489.659,"body":"then like people at home, they have like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3489.659,"endTime":3489.989,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3490.019,"endTime":3492.809,"body":"Like they cut the top off."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3492.839,"endTime":3493.259,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3494.609,"endTime":3498.869,"body":"And it's just like a thing that like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3494.609,"endTime":3498.869,"body":"everybody's like, oh yeah, this is"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3498.869,"endTime":3503.609,"body":"And that's probably like talk about like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3498.869,"endTime":3503.609,"body":"eco-friendly like, how awesome is that?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3503.639,"endTime":3508.769,"body":"You just have this tiny little bag"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3503.639,"endTime":3508.769,"body":"that holds hold your milk, and then"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3508.769,"endTime":3511.379,"body":"over and over rather than buying"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3508.769,"endTime":3511.379,"body":"a new hard container every time."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3511.409,"endTime":3511.979,"body":"That's brilliant."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3512.039,"endTime":3512.459,"body":"I love it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3512.849,"endTime":3513.089,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3513.419,"endTime":3519.479,"body":"I think a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3513.419,"endTime":3519.479,"body":"provinces have since converted"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3520.339,"endTime":3521.789,"body":"I think, I think"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3520.339,"endTime":3521.789,"body":"I was praising them"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3522.239,"endTime":3523.319,"body":"one of the provinces."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3523.389,"endTime":3524.969,"body":"I think they're still mostly bags."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3526.019,"endTime":3526.679,"body":"That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3527.129,"endTime":3528.029,"body":"I think that's super cool."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3528.029,"endTime":3537.779,"body":"I love, I sort of love the whole, like"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3528.029,"endTime":3537.779,"body":"the, the idea of like, uh, of like a"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3538.169,"endTime":3542.159,"body":"Um, this is, this is why I, like,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3538.169,"endTime":3542.159,"body":"I kind of hate water bottles."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3542.639,"endTime":3542.849,"body":"They got."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3543.959,"endTime":3546.719,"body":"Individual use water"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3543.959,"endTime":3546.719,"body":"bottles that drives me."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3547.799,"endTime":3548.939,"body":"No people love them."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3548.999,"endTime":3552.299,"body":"People love they're convenient."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3552.299,"endTime":3559.139,"body":"And if like, yeah, if you're on a road"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3552.299,"endTime":3559.139,"body":"trip and you, you forgot to bring a bottle"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3559.139,"endTime":3562.559,"body":"need water, you run into your seven 11 or"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3559.139,"endTime":3562.559,"body":"whatever, and you grab a bottle of water."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3562.559,"endTime":3563.429,"body":"It's super convenient."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3563.429,"endTime":3563.819,"body":"I get it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3564.389,"endTime":3570.449,"body":"Um, but like, like when, whenever, you"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3564.389,"endTime":3570.449,"body":"know you, I go to somebody's house."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3570.449,"endTime":3571.949,"body":"Cause I don't do this at my house."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3572.249,"endTime":3577.799,"body":"Um, but whenever I go to somebody's"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3572.249,"endTime":3577.799,"body":"house and I'm like, ah, I need some"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3577.799,"endTime":3585.239,"body":"like three giant stacks of water bottles"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3577.799,"endTime":3585.239,"body":"you like, is there, is there, is there"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3585.299,"endTime":3590.759,"body":"Like, is there poison in"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3585.299,"endTime":3590.759,"body":"your tab water anyway?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3590.789,"endTime":3591.239,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3591.539,"endTime":3593.459,"body":"A metric system go metric system."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3593.489,"endTime":3593.999,"body":"Let's do it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3594.509,"endTime":3594.659,"body":"Let's."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3595.619,"endTime":3597.389,"body":"I, I, it's not going to be in my lifetime."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3597.479,"endTime":3598.019,"body":"I doubt it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3598.439,"endTime":3598.889,"body":"I doubt it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3599.879,"endTime":3601.499,"body":"I wish it was a really do wish."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3601.499,"endTime":3601.859,"body":"It was."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3602.009,"endTime":3610.979,"body":"I wonder, you know what, I wonder if"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3602.009,"endTime":3610.979,"body":"like every vehicle sold by 2030 or"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3610.979,"endTime":3614.219,"body":"that they're not going to make, um,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3610.979,"endTime":3614.219,"body":"internal combustion engines anymore."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3614.969,"endTime":3619.859,"body":"Uh, if it all becomes electric"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3614.969,"endTime":3619.859,"body":"and like there's the one less"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3619.859,"endTime":3621.599,"body":"Everybody talks about"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3619.859,"endTime":3621.599,"body":"a gallon of gas, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3621.599,"endTime":3626.219,"body":"That's like, that's the sort of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3621.599,"endTime":3626.219,"body":"thing that everybody points to"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3626.219,"endTime":3630.539,"body":"Again, when people stop buying"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3626.219,"endTime":3630.539,"body":"gallons of gas, will they be more"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3630.989,"endTime":3632.069,"body":"Like I wonder maybe."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3632.879,"endTime":3638.339,"body":"And then can we start to buy leaders of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3632.879,"endTime":3638.339,"body":"beer and leaders of what other liquids,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3642.719,"endTime":3644.069,"body":"well, wine, what do you buy?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3644.069,"endTime":3644.369,"body":"Wine?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3644.399,"endTime":3646.079,"body":"750 milliliter bottle, right?"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3647.609,"endTime":3649.469,"body":"This is not, this is a solved problem."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3649.499,"endTime":3649.739,"body":"We have."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3650.684,"endTime":3655.454,"body":"We have to read the world of"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3650.684,"endTime":3655.454,"body":"this ridiculous nonsense of"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3655.754,"endTime":3657.854,"body":"I mean, that would be cool"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3655.754,"endTime":3657.854,"body":"if that did happen in our lifetime."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3657.854,"endTime":3662.924,"body":"And then when we're seniors,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3657.854,"endTime":3662.924,"body":"you can tell all the young ones"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3664.904,"endTime":3666.614,"body":"I heard a podcast."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3669.404,"endTime":3670.904,"body":"What's a podcast."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3675.074,"endTime":3677.504,"body":"Uh, yeah, we'll see."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3678.584,"endTime":3679.064,"body":"We'll see."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3679.094,"endTime":3679.574,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3679.664,"endTime":3683.024,"body":"I hope everybody enjoyed my, uh, my"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3679.664,"endTime":3683.024,"body":"pet peeve about the metric system."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3683.024,"endTime":3684.374,"body":"That's that's low hanging fruit."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3684.464,"endTime":3686.594,"body":"I got to come up with a better one."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3688.244,"endTime":3688.844,"body":"I got to come up with."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3688.864,"endTime":3690.764,"body":"If that's that's pretty sad."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3690.824,"endTime":3691.754,"body":"I can do better than that."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3692.444,"endTime":3693.794,"body":"Let's be done with the show, Melissa."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3693.944,"endTime":3694.334,"body":"We're done."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3694.394,"endTime":3695.144,"body":"I'm done ranting."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3695.174,"endTime":3695.804,"body":"I've had enough."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3696.014,"endTime":3696.584,"body":"It's a good day."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3696.824,"endTime":3697.094,"body":"Good."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3698.714,"endTime":3699.044,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3699.104,"endTime":3704.354,"body":"As always, please reach out to us if"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3699.104,"endTime":3704.354,"body":"you agree that the metric system should"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3704.354,"endTime":3707.174,"body":"United States and what other country,"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3704.354,"endTime":3707.174,"body":"there's another country that uses it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3709.449,"endTime":3711.759,"body":"I don't know either way"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3709.449,"endTime":3711.759,"body":"America should adopt it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3712.149,"endTime":3713.559,"body":"And if we don't, shouldn't adopt it."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3713.559,"endTime":3717.519,"body":"Please let us know by contact"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3713.559,"endTime":3717.519,"body":"at pic place, podcast.com."},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3717.549,"endTime":3724.029,"body":"You can email us there, or you can tweet"},{"speaker":"Chris","startTime":3717.549,"endTime":3724.029,"body":"us at CircuitHub or at w assembly and tell"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3725.469,"endTime":3727.389,"body":"Thanks for listening"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3725.469,"endTime":3727.389,"body":"to the pick place podcast."},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3727.479,"endTime":3731.439,"body":"If you liked what you heard,"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3727.479,"endTime":3731.439,"body":"consider following us on your"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3731.439,"endTime":3734.739,"body":"leave us a review on apple podcasts"},{"speaker":"Melissa","startTime":3731.439,"endTime":3734.739,"body":"or wherever you get your podcasts."}]}