Welcome to the first episode of 2024! Join Rebecca as she welcomes Amy Horner, CPA, MBA, founder of True Nine. Horner is a change enthusiast, keynote speaker and strategy consultant with a personal goal to complete 50 races in 50 states before her 50th birthday. Tune in for an invigorating conversation that intertwines motivation, embracing change, and the transformative impact of technology within healthcare and beyond.
Thanks for listening! Like what you hear? Follow us on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and be sure to subscribe to The Vurge for the latest episodes and more!
Interested in being a guest on the show? Click here to learn more.
Welcome to the first episode of 2024! Join Rebecca as she welcomes Amy Horner, CPA, MBA, founder of True Nine. Horner is a change enthusiast, keynote speaker and strategy consultant with a personal goal to complete 50 races in 50 states before her 50th birthday. Tune in for an invigorating conversation that intertwines motivation, embracing change, and the transformative impact of technology within healthcare and beyond.
Thanks for listening! Like what you hear? Follow us on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and be sure to subscribe to The Vurge for the latest episodes and more!
Interested in being a guest on the show? Click here to learn more.
Hey everyone and welcome to another episode of the Verge. Today we have Amy Horner with us. She is a strategic change executive, keynote speaker and also a chief member. Welcome, amy.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:I'm delighted to be here with y'all so nice to finally make it work and have you on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Nothing. There's nothing like a little scheduling gymnastics that we all are so familiar with but it worked out.
Speaker 1:Here we are yes, absolutely, of course. I want to start out with can you give us your history, your sort of brief bio, how you came about doing and how you've learned everything you've learned up until?
Speaker 2:this point Absolutely, and hopefully many more points to come right. We all hope that we have great career longevity. Gosh, be brief. I had no idea that I was going to get into strategic planning and organizational transformation when I started my career. I was an accountant, I wanted to be a CPA and I wanted to do audits forever. And things changed as opportunities presented themselves and really fell in love with understanding the change and innovation process that is so necessary for organizations not only to thrive but, in some cases, to survive.
Speaker 2:Organizations need to delve into strategic planning, not only when they want to, because they want to be doing something differently, but also when the need arises from things that are out of their control, that happen in their operating environment or in the world as a whole. I think we all know what happened here about four years ago. That required a lot of strategic thinking and strategic planning so that organizations could continue to be successful and serve their mission in the future. So I just fell into it, fell in love with it. Now, in the process of getting my doctorate, the focus of my research is on diversity of leadership and its impact on strategic change. I'm so excited to be here today with you and your audience, because I hear you want to talk a little bit about change, so I'm in the right spot.
Speaker 1:We love change. At Divergent we are definitely change agents, but we also are there to help and hold our hands of our clients through that change, because any type of change, small or large, is hard for everybody. So what are some key initiatives you do to help organizations get through small, medium, large types of change?
Speaker 2:I think the most important thing is, however small or large your initiative, is that you are tackling, as you go through change, to make sure that you have a collaborative group that's working together towards it. A collaboration is key. You'll be coming. You'll have people coming at it from different angles. That's so important, instead of just thinking of it in one or two ways, but to have a lot of people collaborating to look at whatever the situation is from many angles and from many lenses. Of course, as that collaborative process moves forward and starts to take shape before it rolls out because you do have so many people involved everyone else will start to know about it as well. So, by involving some of your key personnel and stakeholders, this won't be a foreign concept that the rest of the team isn't aware of until the second it drops. So I think that collaborative process involving so many people is key.
Speaker 1:What do you do with the people that hate change, have their feet in the mud, are saying you've done it like this for 15 years? I don't understand why we need to change the process. It's perfect as it is right now.
Speaker 2:Well, two things. First, I think you need to understand why they are there, why they are so stuck and wedded to the way that something has been done. Sometimes it's because they came up with the way it was done and it's theirs and they're very protective of it. Sometimes it's because the person who taught them is now their boss or CEO and by changing it, they feel like they're going to hurt someone's feelings and, quite honestly, sometimes it is easier to do things the same way that you've always done them. They think understanding the why for them, digging in setting their jaw and digging in their heels is the first step. But once you have an understanding of the why, I think really talking through. Yes, I appreciate that we've been doing it this way I think you said 15 years or however long it has been.
Speaker 2:But the world has changed, everything has changed. I mean, things have changed in the last 15 weeks, let alone 15 years, yeah, and if we do oftentimes continue to do things the same way, we're not going to be able to keep up. And it really would be almost miraculous if organizations are still doing things the same way they had been doing them 15 years ago, because things just are so vastly different with technology, the pace of change Now we're looking at AI and machine learning we need to do our best to change along with it and, I think, helping people understand that if the organization doesn't change whatever it is that's been around for whatever period of time, not only is it jeopardized their role, their job but also the likelihood of future success of the organization, and I don't think anybody wants to stand in the way of those two things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always find like coming down is the wrong words, but really getting to their level and understanding what their process is now and then being able to lay out the options moving forward right, we have the old option, we have option A, we have option B and we can try these options and we could roll back if we have to, knowing that that's probably not the right choice ever, but I always find that it kind of gives them a sense of calm and also, instead of coming down with a sledgehammer, really sitting down and having their voice heard and seeing what their process is now allows you to build that rapport and hold their hand as you're about to pull them through some like humongous change you know along the way.
Speaker 2:I think that's great, and to the extent we can have the people who are going to be impacted by the process draw up some of what the new process would look like. Right, you know, if you take a step back from anything you do and look at it from a consulting type lens because you're the one that does it you probably are the one who best knows how it could be done better. You just haven't made the innovative strides to do that, to do that on your own, and so I do think that that helps too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always find showing them a visual of current state, future state and also especially with electronic health records. Now we're sort of out of the phase of implementing those, although there's still mergers and acquisitions going. Site visits do wonders in allowing those people that are stuck in their ways for the 15 years to go, you know, across the state or to another site that where it's already live and happening and they're happy and willing to show the new process and excited. That is always a great nugget to offer to the people that are you know stuck in the mud.
Speaker 2:I love that and having champions other than yourself, because you're going to be the villain in somebody's story, at least one person's story. If you're the person that's always leading a change initiative, they will not have a large fan club, potentially of a lot of people, and so having champions to help who maybe were resistant but have seen the benefits of the change, you know kind of go out to the front lines and help with implementation and help with really just the positive impact that it can have, I think that's huge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are you doing in an organization and you're seeing the red flags pop up that there's going out to be a change made? And how do you get that executive buy-in at an organization level so that politics are well? They're always at play, but how do you ease that stress there?
Speaker 2:And that's a tough one. Sometimes it's the team that wants change and the executives who are the ones that are stuck. It's not always a top down, you know, directive or initiative, right? I think a lot of times, particularly now that you have the younger generations, who have a different work style that they prefer. They are much more tech enjoyable, right, they enjoy tech much more than, I think, the older generations.
Speaker 2:They are starting to push change, and so you do have almost the reversal of what we expect, when it comes to the people who are making the decisions, is that the team wants change and the executives might be resistant to it. And you know you hinted at this and you're right All the executives have to buy in, they have to buy in a unified voice and they have to be part of the process. And I think it's also important to remember that when you are in a position of leadership executive or any other leadership role everyone is watching how you are truly embracing the change, if you are leading it, if you are implementing, if it's new software, if you're implementing it and using it, and one person who's not aligned can sort progress more than I think they actually realize. And that's when things can really start to unravel, because then you might have people picking sides.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it can really derail the project right. So I had a situation where I was leading the implementation of a call center at an organization. At the same time the CEO that was there got asked to leave and a new CEO came in and we all gathered together in the boardroom and said are we going through with this change or are we not? There was very mixed feelings on. Some people were like no, because the providers didn't want all that change. Others were like this has to happen. Here's the ROI and the CEO would not let us leave that room until we all decided to march at the same beat. That was huge for us and we went through with the change and it worked out. But we all had to come out there, like you said, marching to the same beat because it's gonna be looked at at all levels.
Speaker 2:Well, in that particular scenario, the CEO was absolutely critical to that moving forward. This year. He hadn't said absolutely. I'm 100% behind this and I wanna make sure everyone else is 100% behind it. Just imagine the parallel scenario that happens there. Right, drama and disaster. Right, let's be theatric about it, but these things do happen when people aren't aligned. So I think that's an awesome, that's a great success story.
Speaker 1:To be to point out. He actually wasn't initially on board. He was one of the skeptical ones but after a couple hours in the meeting room he was persuaded and jumped on the boat with everybody and obviously as a CEO he was the biggest change champion and it all worked out. But initially he was kind of one foot in and the canoe went out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean that happens as well. People might not be skeptical or not behind the change. They just might not fully understand, yeah, and so I think it does take sometimes some explaining to do if and maybe sometimes we're not the best explainers because we believe so wholeheartedly in change, right, we're not necessarily breaking it down to the appropriate level or speaking someone else's language obviously euphemistic but you do have to do a good job of explaining it and that helps to get people comfortable as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so on that level and communication, we had talked about a couple of weeks ago about the communication, the different communication levels and how often you need to communicate to get changed through to all different titles at the organization. So, with that said, what would you suggest and what are the key initiatives that you really push when you're helping an organization?
Speaker 2:I think when you have an organization that's going through, let's say, a significant change, let's go with an entire back office reorg that has to do with new software and tying everything in, because I know you talked about that a little bit earlier. Right, with the systems change that's going to impact people at every single level and every single function of the organization and that definitely is a change that people are resistant to. They're accustomed to the processes and, potentially, the platform that they have been using. They're very comfortable with it, they're efficient with it and anytime you bring in a new piece of software or a new rollout, you are going to have some disruption and some inefficiencies that come with it.
Speaker 2:But I think understanding that and building in a little bit of flexibility and time is a success mechanism. And then, talking to the people at those other locations or other levels, like we had talked about earlier, have a champion right. Have a champion at other levels to talk with peers, to get peers comfortable, to get people on board. Every organization has leaders in the organization that might not have corner offices and fancy sparkling titles Right. They are leaders because of either what they do or how well respected they are or the relationships that they have made inside the organization, and those people will be helpful if they're on board with the change and so making sure that those people are identified, involved, enthusiastic, that's a great place to start.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they help bring along everybody else and guide them to the right choice along the way, right Knowing that everybody's voice is getting heard.
Speaker 2:Right. And sometimes that person, that almost lynchpin, is the person who's been at the start vocally and potentially physically most opposed to the change. And then they start to see the benefits of whatever the new is and adopt, implement, yeah, and they become the biggest champion because everybody knows how against it they were and sees them change their mind, and that can create momentum like no one who's been enthusiastic from the start ever could.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I don't know, maybe it's because I like a challenge, but I always like to come in the change and you scan the room and you see the one that's going to be the one that you just stand out. Right, if you observe, if you like observing nonverbals like I do, the kicker and screamer is there in the room, stands out the most, and I set eyes like I'm going to change this person around and I'm going to involve them the most in the change and they're going to become the change champion Again, reaching back to because their voice is heard and you're pulling them along and you know others are going to follow to your point, because they're the largest voice in the room but does not have the fancy title and has probably been there for 30 years, right, so that relationships and trust that they have with everybody else is there, and so, yeah, I like that challenge.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's just such an interesting point you bring up. I think all of us, even myself and probably you as well, we do this. I don't think that we always realize that our facial expressions, in our body language, speak louder than any billboard with large bold print when we don't like something or when we're skeptical about something that is very difficult to mask. And, yes, you're right, you do know who it is when you walk in that room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and for me that's hard to mask. I'm like a person where you get what you get, and sometimes it can be come across too blunt, but you know, at least you know that this is who I am. It's not going to change. So, yeah, I love pulling that person on. It's a challenge. Let's talk politics through change, right? That's always like the biggest topic, the elephant in the room. Nobody talks about it, and so how do you guide people through the politics or persuade the board in certain ways and have communication at that level so that it doesn't interrupt the change that is getting in place?
Speaker 2:I think it's so interesting when you are a full-time employee for an organization, regardless of your role, you're probably already very familiar with the politics of the organization, yeah, and if you know that those politics are going to make it unlikely that a change is going to get through, you can always hire a consultant. Right, maybe plug your consultants that can help you through it and make them the villain or the one that has to navigate some of those muddy waters. But if you do know the politics, you also might even be better poised to get through them. Because you're familiar with them and you know how they work. You can see what hasn't worked in the past, where the politics have thwarted something. Or you also always know the best person to get on your side if you do want something to happen.
Speaker 2:Everyone knows who that person is on the leadership team. Everyone knows who to go to when they have an idea that they want rubber stamped or to be circulated the board. If it's a board that loves change, then that's a little easier. If it's a board that's very resistant to change, I do go back to either consultant or a third person or a third party coming in or a very unified front on the leadership team that's bringing this change. It can't just be one person right. It does have to be a unified front and, I think, also knowing those politics, being aware of just exactly what the sticking point is right.
Speaker 2:Some people are very hesitant to spend money on a new initiative. Some people have tighter pocketbooks than others. Some people are worried that brand recognition or brand reputation will change. Some people are worried about going into a new market or being too soon or too late to roll something out. People have all sorts of reasons at the leadership level why change is something that they're going to push back on. So I think making sure that you know what that is and using we can all be a little political Using those politics to get basically what you want is a bit of an art form.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I agree. I like that you're touching on the consultant versus the employee or the direct hire. I always find that as a consultant, it's good and there's good and bad. Right, the pro is that you don't know the politics, so you can come in and help push the change, almost oblivious a little bit to what the politics are, because you're hired to create the change and implement that with the organization, but then also working with the employees because they know the politics and they're going to help you, as the consultant, coming in and guide you away from those potholes that are existing and save you a couple months of work, right.
Speaker 2:I mean you hope. You hope they're not going to push you into the pothole, right? That's good. It's not Sometimes. Sometimes it depends on how excited they are to see you coming in the door. It is so interesting to talk about consulting for change versus being a full-time employee. Who's the change agent? It's very different and the navigation of relationships is very different. One is not always necessarily easier than the other, Right.
Speaker 1:No, I agree. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. When I was CIO in Vermont, we pushed a lot of change in the IT department and I got people trained up and part of it was, yes, I was the direct hire, but I always told them I wasn't there. I knew I wasn't going to be there for life. So how do I place them in the right strategic spot so that they all grew up there and had family there, so that they had a spot? I was the one taking the spear, if I could, for them, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. Making sure that we leave organizations better or better positioned for success than they were the day we walked in. It doesn't mean they were unsuccessful the day that we walked in. It's just like we opened this, with changes coming at us very quickly and it's all around us and we either initiate it or we react to something. But the change is going to come and regardless of how long you're at an organization whether you be on a three to six month consulting gig or whether you'd be a full-time employee that's there for five to 10 years, leaving the organization in a better situation than you found it, I think it's just the ultimate goal.
Speaker 1:Yeah always, always, let's shift over. You and I are big runners, so tell us about your goal, because I think it's a super awesome goal, life goal that you're working on achieving right now with running.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I know the last time we talked we were both nursing hip injuries and I'm very excited to report that mine is about at the 90% mended part.
Speaker 3:So I'll be able to jog this weekend, which I'm obviously very excited about.
Speaker 2:I can hear the change and the tone of my voice, because being injured is it is not a lot of fun. I have always been an athlete right, I was a college varsity soccer player. I'm a lifelong athlete and I love running. It really is my opportunity to clear my head, to think through invasion, to tackle problems, to just kind of get out of my own way. And so I have been a runner minds higher life.
Speaker 2:And when I was 40, looking at the next big milestone of 50 and talking to a lot of people about that, particularly talking to a lot of women about that, we seem to have this fear of aging, or maybe not a fear of aging, but we're not celebrating it.
Speaker 2:And I wanted to make sure I celebrated the March to 50. And so I combined my love of running with my love of travel and launched my 50 races in 50 states by 50 goal I on New Year's Day so New Year's Day of 2024, which probably by the time this post will have already happened I will have crossed my 40th finish line, my 40th state, and it has really been rewarding. Now, of course, I had a two year hiatus because of COVID. There weren't any races for about two years from COVID so I had to do a little catching up. So the buy 50 might be in jeopardy by something like 12 to 18 months, but I'm still absolutely determined to run a road race in each of our 50 US states and I have already run in the district I ran in DC a handful of years ago, so technically I have a bonus race in there, so it'll be 51.
Speaker 1:What is your race like? Your 50th Like? Do you have like that? This is the state I'm going to. Is it like Hawaii or something it is? It is, I mean.
Speaker 2:I'm going to count by trade, right by trade and by training. So we have to align my 50th state with the 50th state to come into the union. That really only makes sense. We have to align those numbers. So the Hawaii will be the last one and it'll be a huge celebration. Hawaii isn't necessarily a weekend trip. I have to spend some significant time there. Hawaii is one of three states I have yet to visit, so that just will be a really cool cap to this goal. Super exciting.
Speaker 1:I know I need a new goal for 2024, aside from getting my hip better, which is why my bike is in the background. It's the only thing I can be able to do these days and swim, but running is like my ultimate Check out, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, there are one mile fun runs. I think people like you and I, who really love to do long distances, never really looked at those before, but they are available.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's got to be over five. I am doing a 5k with my daughter for Turkey Trot, which this is already going to be posted, and this is the first year that I'm not pushing her when she's eight. I pushed her for way too long and this year I said you're done, I'm not, You're running with me. So it'll be her first real running 5k which is pretty good.
Speaker 2:I think that will be a lot of fun. It is a Turkey Trot, so it is in the spirit of a good time. I don't want to let anybody's out there to really set any PRs in the Turkey Trot.
Speaker 1:No, no, just earn the badge of eating a second piece of pie.
Speaker 2:Throughout my 50 races, 50 states. I have run a few Turkey Trot races and I think one of my favorite was my Colorado race. I ran with two of my friends in Grand Junction, colorado, as a Turkey Trot. It was a fundraiser for the local volunteer firefighting group and it just was a really beautiful course. It was a gorgeous day. If you'll have them in the Grand Junction, that part of Colorado is very different with all the Mesa's, and so there's my Turkey Trot story.
Speaker 1:And have you had to quickly change any of your races because you've had certain things thrown your way weather.
Speaker 2:Oh, gosh weather. Yes, my Florida race. I ran in Key West. It was actually postponed to the start. It was postponed by about an hour and a half because of a squall that had come through overnight, and so we ran in something like still 20 to 30 mile an hour winds, and as I was running my legs were knocking into each other, so I actually ended up with bruises on the inside of my shins and my calves from that. But it was Key West and there were plenty of adult beverages afterwards that got my reward for that. But that was really interesting to run in weather. I have run the only road race in America that occurs on a frozen surface. That happened in Madison, wisconsin, a few years ago in February. It was really cool and I will tell you, running on ice, that's the least forgiving surface I've ever run on.
Speaker 3:That hurt.
Speaker 2:Hopefully that was a short race. It was a 5K, so, yes, the shortest they can get Last question, Miss Guini.
Speaker 1:What is your superpower that you give back to the world? What would you say is your biggest superpower?
Speaker 2:The biggest superpower is really I like being able to have an impact on other people, and so I try to do that through teaching, leading and motivating. I do a lot of workshops, I do a lot of teaching with other people. I mentor quite a few people really in the middle of their career Managers who want to get to director level and directors who want to get to C-suite Just working with them to whatever leveling up they'd feel like they need or want to do to get to that next step. And I really do love to motivate people, not in a drill sergeant sort of way, but in a, you know life is fun and we should be embracing every single moment of it. And I know I am and come with me and let's do it together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I could have talked about running all day, but I'm also glad we talked about change, because that's one of my favorite things still.
Speaker 1:Awesome.
Speaker 3:Thanks for tuning into the Verge podcast brought to you by Divergent, a leading healthcare IT consulting firm. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Be sure to hit the follow button to stay up to date with the latest IT developments and the exciting ways tech is transforming healthcare today.