Here's What We Know

How Do I Raise Children To Be The Salt & Light Of The Earth with Steve Hines

• Gary Scott Thomas • Season 1 • Episode 189

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This week on Here's What We Know, we sit down with the brilliant author Steve Hines to discuss his book "Salt, Light, & Kids," and the challenges of parenting in today’s culture. In this book, Steve shares how to raise children to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world our culture desperately needs. Steve offers timeless wisdom for parenting in today's tech-savvy world and shares insights from his journey, from growing up in Alabama to becoming a lacrosse coach for young boys and now embracing the role of a grandfather, or "Bam,” as his grandchildren affectionately call him. Tune in now!

In This Episode:

  • Discover the importance of biblically based parenting.
  • Gary and Steve’s perspective on Nick Saban's retirement as head football coach at the University of Alabama and its impact on college sports.
  • Steve shares what led him to write “Salt, Light, & Kids,” an experience he attributes to divine inspiration.
  • Explore the heartwarming and sometimes challenging dynamics of mentoring and coaching young people.
  • Hear Steve’s insights on navigating the trials of digital influences and cultural challenges.
  • The importance of how you accept and respond when it comes to losing.
  • Steve’s take on being a grandparent: loving anything that someone you love so much loves.

This episode is sponsored by:
Dermawav
Winchester Western Wear (Be sure to tell them Gary sent you to save up 20%!)
Dignity Memorial

Bio:
Steve Hines, author of "Salt, Light, & Kids," lives in Nashville, Tennessee, with his high school sweetheart, Leigh Ann, to whom he has been married for 35 years. Together, they have dedicated decades to mentoring younger parents through parenting study groups and one-on-one relationships. As the father of two adult children and the grandfather of three adorable kids, Steve’s passion for supporting families continues to grow amidst the challenges of today's culture. A former C.P.A. and life-long entrepreneur, Steve is also a junior high and high school lacrosse coach and an ardent musician.

Website: https://www.saltlightandkids.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevehines2/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saltlightandkids
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@saltlightandkids
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saltlightandkids/
Salt, Light, & Kids:

Connect with Gary:

Thank you for listening. Let us know what you think about this episode. Leave us a review!

Speaker 1:

Hello, my friends, welcome back to the latest episode of here's what we Know, the podcast of unexpected conversations. And this young man sent me his book and said, hey, we should talk. And I read his book and said, yeah, yeah, we should. Before I get started, I want to encourage you to go and visit our sponsors, check out their businesses, because without them, we can't do this. So I just want to say that, right there. His name is Steve Hines. He wrote this book. Salt can't do this, so I just want to say that, right there. His name is Steve Hines. He wrote this book, salt, light and Kids, and he's had an interesting life so far and we're going to get into how to parenting well, today's culture, with a biblically-based parenting approach, and also just the story of what all's going on, steve how are you?

Speaker 2:

I'm great. Thank you so much From Hoover, alabama. Well, born in Nashville, moved to Birmingham when I was five and then moved back to Nashville four years ago, so I spent most of my life in Birmingham. Slash Hoover, I'm from LA.

Speaker 1:

Lower Alabama.

Speaker 2:

That's right. I saw that I grew up right on the Florida-Alabama line in a little town called Florella and I went to high school in Alabama.

Speaker 1:

My brother went to high school in Florida and we lived in the same house.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, and that's why we're both Alabama fans, I guess Roll.

Speaker 1:

Tide, roll Tide. Yeah, and that's why we're both Alabama fans, I guess. Roll Tide, roll Tide. I tell you the secret my mother-in-law has no idea what to get me for birthdays and Christmas, so I get Alabama gear every year.

Speaker 2:

Of course.

Speaker 1:

I've never bought a piece. I've never bought a piece. But in your honor, since I knew I was going to be talking to a Bama guy, I went and put on what I got for Christmas. Since I knew I was going to be talking to a Bama guy, I went and put on what I got for Christmas yeah. I see If you guys just listen to the audio, go check out the YouTube channel if you want to see my sweet new Alabama sweatshirt.

Speaker 2:

Of course, in mourning from Saban.

Speaker 1:

As we record this, because we record in the future, so we record this. This will be out much later, but as we record this, nick Saban has just retired. By the time this comes out, there may be a new coach. There probably will be a new coach named by then, but as of right now, we're still in the oh my god situation. Yeah, good for him. Well, at 72, he's done everything. You know, when you've done everything you want to do and you have more money than your grandchildren or great-grandchildren can spend and you see the mortality on the wall because you know, father time is undefeated right, none of us get out of here alive, and I like the idea that he sat back and said you know what?

Speaker 1:

How about I've devoted my career to me? My family has devoted everything to me. How about the last half of my life? I'm going to go back and devote everything to them. And that's what I like to think happened, and from his wife's post on social media, it seems like that's where they're going.

Speaker 2:

And I'll tell you what I like too. I of course like that. That's where they're going. And I'll tell you what I like too. I of course don't like it because I'm a big fan of his, but I like that he knew when to go out on top. If you're a Seinfeld aficionado, like I am, you think about George and showmanship, but I digress. I love that he didn't ride the train down, which is inevitable when you get older, and you know, like Mark Richt or some other people just kind of drove it to the ground. He had fourth and 31 this year and then he beat Georgia and the SEC championship and he knew when to go out on top.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I've read this he's arguably seen this is one of his best coaching years, because the team wasn't as good as it ended up being.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Right. You see the team in the first part of the year and then losing to Texas and barely beating South Florida, and he coached them up and it seemed like he had a lot more fun and he didn't seem, you know, after the Michigan game. He wasn't crushed, right, but he had done what he did. He's back on top of the SEC. And here's how you do it, classy you wait until after the championship game and then you leave. He didn't take anybody's thunder away.

Speaker 1:

So he let Michigan have their championship. He let the whole thing because if he could have retired out of the Michigan game, who would have cared about the Michigan game? Who would have cared about the national championship?

Speaker 2:

I'll tell you another thing I've thought a lot about too is kind of a life paradigm shift in our society is it would have had to have been so difficult, with the changes with NIL and the transfer portal and all that, to basically recruit three different classes? One, you recruit your high school players. Two, you recruit in the transfer portal. Three, you recruit your players you have on your team because you don't want them to leave. And with the narcissism and the money of all of these young players, that would have been extremely difficult. And I'm sure with him being kind of a old soul and you know the kind of person he is like him or dislike him he's figured it out and he has his morals and things he stands on and it's just gone today in the. You know this young generation in a lot of ways, so that had to be really frustrating.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and you get to the point where it's like I don't know if I want to put up with that, because it constantly changes. Trust me, the era that Mayor Bryant grew up in was so much more different than the era that Curly Lambeau coached right and neither one.

Speaker 1:

They would have said, okay, that's football, but it's not what I do. And then, when you got up and now with the transfer report, you're absolutely right, and Deion Sanders even said he put out the tweet going we've literally chased the goat away, right, is this what we want? Is this what we want in college football? And so it's an interesting take and you have an interesting background because you were a coach. You were a coach for a long time.

Speaker 2:

And you have an interesting background because you were a coach. You were a coach for a long time. Yeah, I did. You coached lacrosse. I coached lacrosse. It was a sideline, full-time job. I coached junior, high and high school boys lacrosse for 11 years I think, but it was in addition to my full-time employment, so I was, you know, burning the candle at both ends for a long time, but it was really great because I got to spend.

Speaker 2:

I've always had a heart for young, you know, trying to mentor young people, young young guys in the in the, you know, seventh to 12th grade range. And my son was growing up and I was coaching him, which is good and bad Depends on if you ask him or not in a lot of ways, but I did coach and there's, you can have so much impact, just like Saban, all his ex, his old players, say. You can have so much impact for good for for young people, and we need that today for sure, just because they're getting bombarded with you know how great they are and their lack of humility and things like that. So, yeah, it was a really good period.

Speaker 1:

Last time I coached was two years ago, I guess I'm still stunned that you coach lacrosse in the state of Alabama, because that's not the state of Alabama I grew up in. You know, we never my entire time growing up, there was never. I did not see soccer in person until I was a college student. Mm-hmm Right.

Speaker 2:

I went to Vestavia, my high school. The first time there was a soccer team was my senior year. There was no lacrosse. And it came to Alabama and it was just kind of a ragtag bunch of people that wanted to throw around to Alabama. And it was just kind of a ragtag bunch of people that wanted to throw around and we built that into a real league with 40-something teams. I think there was a lot. Then I ended up coaching up here in Nashville one year as well Did you play.

Speaker 2:

I did not, I just learned it.

Speaker 1:

Well, did you see that? I read a article about the guy who's the volleyball coach at Wisconsin, the women's volleyball coach, and they're like one of the most dominant things in the country, things in the country. He never played volleyball, yeah, but he figured out what they need to do. That's right and that's the concept I've said there by my father-in-law was saying you know, he doesn't like these people who do color commentary, you know who are on TV and they never played the game. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I had to remind him you know, howard Cosell never played the game. Bob Costas never played the game.

Speaker 1:

When you're talking about the game, that's not a skill set, right? There's a different skill set about. That's why they pair all those guys. You know, uh, the gym nance never played the game, right? That's why you pair those people, because there's a skill set that comes along with it. And there's been so many athletes who tried to do tv. Joe montana couldn't, yep couldn't do. It doesn't work. You, I'm still waiting to see if Tom Brady's going to work. Everybody goes and they're paying him a lot of money. I'm not convinced he will.

Speaker 2:

I am not either. I've seen Gronk lately and I'm not sure he's that great.

Speaker 1:

Well, he just doesn't have the skill set for it. And when somebody does have the skill set for it, when you see a Tony Romo or you see some of the studio hosts who are really good at it and you're like, wow, who knew, who knew? Yeah, and coaching. See, now I think I'm a little older than you, but here's the difference You're on to grandkids as we take this. I have an 11 and a 13-year-old.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 1:

This is the face of optimism you're looking at right here.

Speaker 1:

I'm glad you read my book then. Well, that's why you know I read it Right, because I have two boys. I have 11 and a 13 year old and I, as I tell them, it took me that long to meet your mother Right, took me that long to find that when I met her, I had no idea, I thought the chance of having kids had passed me by. And then on our first date, she's like do you want kids? And I'm like, yeah, I didn't even think that was an option.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Good for you.

Speaker 1:

And so it was awesome, and I think I'm much better at it than I would have been if God had blessed me in my 20s to be a different situation. Yeah, because you have a different relationship. But, as I tell them, I spent the majority of my life being as selfish as anyone can be. I was the first thought when I woke up each morning what I want to do, and I was the last thought when I went to bed at night. What do I want to do? Yeah, and I said now I am fifth, sixth, sometimes seventh on the list, but I will tell you this the farther down the list I get, the happier.

Speaker 2:

I get Absolutely, absolutely. I thought kids were the greatest thing in most instances when I had them, and then, when I had grandkids, I figured out that they were way better than kids Because you can give them back.

Speaker 1:

Here's my theory on grandkids, because I was telling this to my wife. My parents had passed years ago. So I said but here's my take on it I want to try to stick around and see my children's children. For this moment that, when they see their children and they are enveloped in a love they cannot understand, I want to go hey, look at me, that's you and me, that's you and me, that's you and me.

Speaker 2:

Now you know, and I think why we do love grandkids is because we would love anything that someone we love so much loves. Amen. I got to chill my kids and their spouses and obviously my grandkids live here in Nashville and I have a five-year-old granddaughter, two-year-old granddaughter and then a grandson on the way, due in a few weeks, several weeks, and the two girls besides my wife are my best friends in the world. Came over yesterday. Came over yesterday. We kept them seven hours, I think, in between building a fort and playing hide and seek and teaching them to catch a ball and riding the scooters in our house. It's just the greatest thing ever. So I'm really, really fortunate to have that relationship with them for sure.

Speaker 1:

What do they call you? What do they call you? What are your grandkids?

Speaker 2:

called. You'll love this Bam. Guess what it's short for. What are your grandkids called? You'll love this BAM Guess what it's short for.

Speaker 1:

I got nothing.

Speaker 2:

Bama. We couldn't go with Bama because it's probably a trademark issue. And I went through some other names with my daughter and she's kind of like me, she's pretty strong-willed, and she's like nope, nope, nope, nope when I'd come up because I wouldn't want to be grandpa or whatever, because I'm just feel like I'm not the traditional named granddad. So she proposed BAM and I was like, yeah, let's rock that Roll tide and so I'm BAM.

Speaker 1:

Well for me it's different Again. I'm in a different era of raising kids. I tell my wife because, like my mother-in-law is, she's not grandma, she's Gigi. Her name is Gala, so Gigi is grandma Gala, but Gigi right. And my brother-in-law's father-in-law is not grandpa. You want to hear the best name of all time for a grandparent?

Speaker 2:

Lay it on me, uncle Chip, uncle Chip, and he's a grandfather.

Speaker 1:

And his name's not Chip.

Speaker 2:

And his name's not Chip, that is. That's the kind of thing I like.

Speaker 1:

I like, because he's like you. He's fighting. He's fighting the old. No, no, if I'm grandpa, I'm old. By the way, he's older than you, and not both of us, right? He's a good deal older than me and, as I always tell him, his name's lindsey. Uh, lindy, I'm always like lindy. You're the definition of grandpa, yeah you know, for me though that's pretty good.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to go, I'm going to embrace it, I'm going to be grandpappy. That's what I tell my wife. I want to be grandpappy. She goes. There is no way I'm going to be married to a grandpappy.

Speaker 2:

I threw out the name Diesel and she shot it down Diesel, which I was kind of kidding, but she wasn't having it. She's like no way.

Speaker 1:

That would be. Yeah, that'd be a deal breaker. Now, what do they call your wife? What do?

Speaker 2:

the grandkids, call your wife Nemi Right now, nemi N-E-M-M-Y Nemi, so we're Nemi and Bam.

Speaker 1:

Wow, wow, wow, wow. Nobody wants to be grandma or grandpa anymore. You know, we've aged out, you know, and the culture changes, right, the culture changes and we all just sit back and go gosh. I remember my grandparents, and they were 5,000 years old and I'm not 5,000 years old. I look good.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, hey, I'm still building forts and riding scooters in the house, so I can't be grandpa. No, we have a trampoline in the backyard and years ago my kids were like, hey dad, come in and jump on the trampoline with me. And I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to tell you, you have an old dad.

Speaker 1:

No no, dad, dad doesn't jump in trampolines anymore. Now the good news is most of your friends, their dads, are young enough to be my sons. They'll jump in that trampoline with you. That's good, Right. And it's gotten me out of coaching too. You know most when you're, when your kids are playing small sports, they always want you to be a coach. But I'm always like look at all these young dads. I think that'll be a better option. Everybody will be like, yeah, you're right, That'd be a better option.

Speaker 2:

We have a trampoline.

Speaker 1:

You still jump in it. Oh, yeah, yeah but they're two and three.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, they're two and five, but we get into some pretty serious jumping and battling and double bouncing each other and all that. Now, I'm not saying that I come out unscathed. My knee will hurt or my back will hurt or whatever, but I'm going to do it as long as I can.

Speaker 1:

Yeah well, I'm just telling you, it's staring you in the face. In about four or five years you'll go. No, you know I'm not. I'm going to let your daddy get up there and jump in the trampoline with you. That's what I want to do because you know Bam needs to be able to sleep tonight. That's right, bam's going to try to make it through the night without six of leaves.

Speaker 2:

Yes, hey, I'm the only person that I know, I think, or at least I've heard of. I've sprained my ankle several times sleeping and I'll get up and fall on the floor when I step my foot down and I'm like how do you sprain an ankle? While you're sleeping, but I have a lot of weird things, like that restless leg syndrome, and you know I'm always the one with the weird injuries, so I just rock it though I just kind of go with it.

Speaker 1:

I sat on the couch watching TV with my wife, I don't know, about a year ago, and all of a sudden I got a cramp on my knee and I went oh, oh, and she goes. What's the matter? I said.

Speaker 2:

I'm old.

Speaker 1:

I don't need that. There's no other excuse. I got nothing, I don't know why, and give me three seconds, it'll go away. Yeah, I'm absolutely fine, all right. Well, before all of our time goes up, and I wanted to talk about the book Salt, light and Kids, as we talk about everything and I warned you that. I warned you before we got on. I'm like I just wherever the conversation leads is where I'm going to go.

Speaker 2:

I love it. So, first of all, tell me where you got the title Salt, Light and Kids, the initial title. I'll tell you first. The initial title of the book was Leaving it All on the Field, with the sports metaphor of how important I talk about this in the book. Actually, one of the chapters now is named Leaving it All on the Field.

Speaker 2:

Talk about how important it is, as parents, to 110 percent effort all the time, because a lot of, for a lot of parents, parenting is kind of just another thing you do. So the initial title is Leaving it All in the Field. And then my editor, who's a woman, said what does that mean? And I thought well, I'm not going to have half the population not knowing what I'm talking about. So I changed it to Saltlight Kids and it was interesting because I probably had 20 working titles after that and I was just praying, Lord, lead me to the title. And in the middle of the night I don't know if it's a dream or if I woke up, but I woke up the next morning and knew exactly what the title was supposed to be Salt Light, Kids, which is two things when I started writing the book and I can tell you the story about why I even wrote a book.

Speaker 2:

I'd never written a book before, but I'm really convicted that people need to be salt of the earth in the secular definition, meaning be dependable and honest and hardworking and want to go the extra mile. And all that and I kind of started writing with more of a secular slant than God said. No, this has got to be about me. So I include both the salt of the earth in the secular definition and salt of the earth and light of the world, like Jesus talks about in Matthew 5. And so it just. We want our kids today more than ever, I think, parents who have a really high level of interest in their kids and in how they parent for them to be good people and to be lovers of Jesus. So Saltlight Kids, parenting well in today's culture, and the well is the key part, because for most people it's not hard to become a parent, but for everybody it's hard to parent well. So that's kind of where the title came from. The Lord gave it to me in the middle of the night one night.

Speaker 1:

Now I've read about how the book came into and I wanted to talk over this experience with you. I actually saw a buddy of mine this morning and I was sharing this with him, sharing the thought I said. Here's one of the things I want to ask him, because he said he was sitting in a car with his granddaughter, who was asleep when the Holy Spirit talked to him One hundred percent.

Speaker 1:

One hundred percent and I'm like I've, I'm envious, I've had, I've had God give me feelings. I've had God speak to me through my children. You know they'll sayvious. I've had, I've had God give me feelings. I've had God speak to me through my children. You know where they'll say something and I'm like I, I got you, I hear you, I got you. But I've never had that feeling of hearing the voice that I wanted to ask you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, tell me about that Just got a Holy spirit chill again. I've my over my career. I've always been an entrepreneur and started companies and stuff like that, and so I always work really hard from I started my first company when I was 26. So 30 something years of entrepreneurship the Lord's kind of taking me out of the secular rat race, so to speak, and has been preparing me to do something different. I thought it would either be a minister somewhere, a pastor maybe at a church, start a nonprofit, and you and I have emailed some before.

Speaker 2:

I'm a musician and I know we both have a love of music, and so when I moved here to Nashville I started writing a bunch of songs and sending them places and things like that. And so one day, a little over a year ago, I was sitting in the car with my at that time one-year-old granddaughter and she was taking a nap. It was the middle of the afternoon and of course you don't wake them up, you, and of course you don't wake them up. You let them sleep as long as they will. And so I told my daughter I'll stay in the car with her and I'm sitting there in total silence, which is unusual because you know we're always looking at our phones or you know something'sshot or whatever.

Speaker 2:

The Lord, in no uncertain terms, said I want you to write a book on parenting. And this was weird because I'd never thought about it, ever about writing a book on parenting. My wife and I had always taught parenting, small groups and things like that for a couple of decades, so I had experience in that but never crossed my mind. And I sat there and it didn't take me two seconds to really confirm what it was that I was supposed to do next. And I went home and told my wife I don't know why and it just blows my mind, but I'm supposed to write a book on parenting.

Speaker 2:

And I started writing and I wrote the first draft it's about 200 pages, I guess in probably about four days. It just everything was just pouring out and I also mentioned in the first of the book when I was typing I felt like I was a scribe sometimes and I don't want to be too weird. But you know, when the Lord gives you words, you, you, you know you go with it. And so he has a message in this book, for I don't know if it's for, you know, one small group to teach or for it to sell a million copies and you know, change the world copies and you know, change the world.

Speaker 1:

I don't know, but it was one of the very limited times you know maybe three or four or five in my life that I really feel like I heard his voice. Wow, sick. Yeah, I've not been blessed with that. And my buddy was telling me he shared with me. He said share me a time where the Lord literally just said, no, do this. And he goes, just like you and I were talking, bring him here. That was one thought Bring him here.

Speaker 2:

That's not, gary, to discount what you said a minute ago. I mean he speaks most of the time, almost all the time He'll speak to us through the Holy Spirit and whispers, I say in the Bible, says and just little nudges and things like that. Those are just as miraculous, any you know, hey, don't send that. Like last night.

Speaker 2:

I was sitting there and you know you can imagine social media is blown up with Saban, particularly, you know, with all my Alabama connections. And there's this Auburn group that was just saying he wasn't a good coach, he just had better players, and it was all people I wasn't a good coach, he just had better players and it was all people I went to high school with. And I just wanted to send something so bad. And I was about to start typing and just the nudge was don't to be at peace with everyone, at least as far as it depends on you. So I didn't get up this morning.

Speaker 2:

The same post is there when I look and I don't spend much time on social media at all. But and then I was going OK, I need to say something because people had added comments all Auburn fans and the Lord said no. And so those little nudges are just as miraculous. The Holy Spirit is, you know, with believers all the time, in those little nudges, or if it's you know, a loud voice like Moses heard it's all God talking to us, yeah, and I know.

Speaker 1:

the other thing about the Alabama thing is a friend of mine went to Michigan, graduated from Michigan. He texted me during the game he goes. This one must be like to be an Alabama fan, right, and I said I hope you're good enough, long enough to be hated. Nobody hates William and Mary, nobody hates Arizona State, nobody does. Nobody hates Georgia Tech. You got to win and win for a long time. And you know, as I always tell my friends and I have a lot of friends who went to Auburn too and the other side, they were all so complimentary, right, because I saw their posts and they were like we're going to look back and it was just like Bear Bryant, we had a chance to play against the greatest coach we ever had and I actually beat him a couple of times. Yeah, they did you go that way and go there. It is Well, it's daunting to the idea of going to write a parenting book, because the first thing I would think is that, after talking to you, I think anybody's sense of humility would have to be overcome, because your first thing is why would anybody listen to me and I don't have all the answers and I did things wrong and my kids can tell you.

Speaker 1:

When I was just a bonehead, you know I tell my boys this all the time there are going to be things about me you don't like and you're going to go. I will never do that and I'm all in on it because I want you to be better at this than I am, right. How did you overcome that, right? How did you?

Speaker 2:

overcome that In writing the book. My parent I was. I was always an overly confident person because I was more sure of myself than anything else and that's pride and that's not the way to be. And so in parenting the greatest news for my family was I had my wife, who had been married 36 years in the next month and we were really good yin and yang together and she kept me grounded and always made sure that I didn't go off the rails like I could do. But it's been interesting.

Speaker 2:

Looking back I see the errors we both made in parenting and I wasn't trying in the book to say here's what you need to do and you'll come out on the other end with this type of kid. It's really a story of our parenting, good and bad, and you read the book you know we had plenty of bad and I didn't go into nearly all of it in the book because I didn't want to incriminate my son mainly. But it's kind of here's what we did, here's what we learned, here's what the Bible says. And hopefully from these stories I tell a ton of stories you can, you know, relate and empathize in where your you know your own situation is with your kids and be benefited.

Speaker 2:

The greatest thing that's happened, I think, since writing the book, though my son I mentioned. We're really close. I coached him all through the years. He was a good athlete and he had a lot of wayward years, starting about where your oldest boy is age-wise about 13. But now he turns 30 in a couple of months and he is so sold out for the Lord and he's read the book twice.

Speaker 2:

He actually wrote an after afterward in the book and he says not long ago, probably about a month ago, he said you know, one of the greatest things was reading the book and knowing exactly what I'm talking about, because he was there and at that time I couldn't stand what you were doing and I didn't understand it. But now, looking back, it really makes sense what you and mom were doing and so it's really validating that, even though we made a bunch of errors mine mostly being impatient and probably too demanding to have both him and my daughter be, you know, really in love with the Lord and have great marriages and all that. So it's not without, you know, challenges by any stretch in our personal story, but it's great to see how they turn out.

Speaker 1:

We're going to come back and pick up more on that story. How do you deal with a child in turmoil? So we'll come right back more with Steve Hines on. Here's what we Know. So you alluded to the book and we don't have to go into details. I'm not asking you for that.

Speaker 1:

But there was a trying time with your son, right when he was, as you said, going off the path you had hoped he was going to be on Right, and it's so easy for us to lash out in anger, and I've told my kids this sometimes. I said sometimes, and I've tried to be best. One of the things I've learned is I don't ever raise my voice. I don't because I don't ever want them to be afraid of it. You can be afraid of disappointing me, but I don't ever want you to be afraid of me. I want you to know that I love you more than I love me. You know and and so, but but when I do sound where I'm, everything is based on fear, because I'm afraid for you, I'm afraid something's going to happen. I'm afraid, you know, if you're walking out in the street, I'm not going to go. Hey, come back, I'm going to go. You know, because I'm afraid for you, because I can do the math.

Speaker 1:

Where you can't do the math Right, I know two plus five equals seven. Where you think two plus five equals orange. You know how. How did you? How do you deal with that? How did you? How did you slowly pull him back in? I know your wife was involved in that, but this is father to father talk.

Speaker 2:

Right Prayer number one. I mean there was a. I'll say this I understood him a lot better than my wife did because I was a boy. That was an idiot, you know at his age too, so I got it. My wife was one of the three girls and you know at his age too, so I got it.

Speaker 2:

My wife was one of the three girls and you know, every time something would happen and see pretty serious stuff. At times she'd be like I don't understand. I was like I totally get it, because you know I did some of the same stuff back then. But and of course she would start saying you know, know, are we parenting wrong? What are we doing wrong?

Speaker 2:

And I would always say and going back to the working title, when I first wrote the book Living on the Field, an encouragement that I give to parents all the time now is you're not really guaranteed of the result in what your kids are going to turn out to be. Sometimes, no matter what, it's going to be a really, really, really bad situation at some point. But we would always hang on the promise train up a child in the way they should go and when they're old they won't depart from you, and that's the Lord, that's a promise from the Lord, and so I take that as a promise and we always did. And then number two, with Leanne, my wife, I'd always say we're trying as hard as we can, we're leaving it on the field, we're completely invested in our kids turning out to be good.

Speaker 2:

You know Christian people and yeah, we blew it. Yeah, I blew it. She may have blown it, but as long as we're giving it everything we got, we got to rest in that and, you know, take solace in. You know he just had, you know, the police just called us or whatever it is, but we're doing everything we can and we're doing it the right way, with prayer, you know, and asking God to guide us, and that's all we can do.

Speaker 1:

I love how you said it's the effort. The effort is the most important part, you know, and in the biblical studies and stuff, and I you know, the Bible gives us a way to go. It's a common sense way to go, which is, you know, these are the easy ways, as my pastor would say. This is him telling you this is the way to an easy life. You can go away from it, but this is the way to an easy life. As far as an easier life, then you go.

Speaker 1:

One of the questions I did want to ask you is how did you balance that? How did you balance parenting your daughter? Because when you have a child in trouble, they get all the attention good or bad get all the attention, and the other one, like I'm from a family I've got five there's, I got a brother and four sisters right, and I've had one of them who had issues and it was very hard because that one would get all of the attention Right. But when there's a bunch of you Right, it's easy to kind of not pay attention. I would think it'd be very hard when you have two kids, and we don't see many five, six, seven kid families anymore. It's usually one, two, three kids. So I thought it was very interesting. How did you guys balance that when it came to your daughter, who did not seem, at least from the book, to be nearly as big of problems that were issued as your son gave you?

Speaker 2:

She was a totally different problem. She was the best behaved in terms of, you know, partying and all that kind of stuff, but she had the worst attitude you can imagine, and a lot of and I say this not to be self-deprecating, but a lot of it was her resentment to me, because we both have in my smell some, thank the Lord, but we both had really strong personalities. So she was mad at me for 20 years and so it was. It was not the same problems, but it was still issues that that we had definitely with her. Uh, just mainly attitude, and you know, sometimes those are worse than some of the other ones when they're consistent, and hers was pretty consistent, so she was not without challenge by any stretch.

Speaker 1:

You know, that's the thing. I share this with my sons all the time, and I've said this story and if you're a faithful listener to the podcast, you've heard this story before. But one of the biggest parenting lessons I ever had in my life was when I was 10, 11, 12 years old and I was arguing with my mother about something, and I have no idea. Now you have to understand. I'm an oops baby. My oldest sister is 18 years older than me. Her son is two years younger than me and he has five grandchildren. If you're doing the math, those are my great, great nieces and nephews.

Speaker 1:

Wow, so by the time, it was almost about being raised by a single mother, right? Because my next closest sibling was four years old and I'm arguing about something and to this day I can't remember what it was and she looks at me and she goes son, the problem is is, you don't know what my job is. She goes my job is to teach you how to raise my grandchildren, and you may not hear any word I'm saying today, son, but one day you will cling to every word. Now I can tell you why she said that, because it was emblazoned in my mind. I can still see her face. I can see the sun behind her as she talked to me and it was like the Lord said that that's what you're here for. So I tell that to my kids all the time. Babe, I'm just trying to teach you how to do it when your daughter comes up and goes. But, dad, I want you to be able to go. What'd the old man do? Let me think about that, you know.

Speaker 2:

And again, it's the effort. It's not the easy, it's the effort. That's going to be the title of my book. Yeah, the people I just want to, you know, encourage parents that are listening. You're, that's going to be the title of my book. Pray for wisdom and you have to give it everything you have, and sometimes giving it everything you have is doing nothing. I talk in the book some about letting kids fail or, if they get in trouble at school, don't go bail them out, let them handle it themselves. I think one of the biggest issues with the younger generations today and, like I said, I never try to just blanket, you know, throw a generation under the bus.

Speaker 2:

But one of the issues I see with the younger kids of today is nobody wants to take responsibility for a fault and everything's always somebody else's fault. And so I encourage parents let your kids fail and let them get themselves out of it. For instance, at school and I say this in the book too we made a pact, leanne and I, my wife, that we would never go to school and complain about or to a teacher or somebody in authority relative to our kids, unless our kids were in danger, you know, were being bullied or something like that. But if they made a bad grade on a test, or if both of my kids were always the ones that had to be sitting in the front next to the teacher because they talked too much, and which is, you know, I guess, knowing my kids, and we just always let them suffer the consequences and they learn how to be resilient and to have resolve and how to, you know, deal with things that weren't that pleasant.

Speaker 2:

The same, you know, with coaches and sports. Hey, if your kid, you know, has to run laps, maybe they need to run laps when they get home. Don't go as a parent and get mad at the coach. Why are you singling, you know, johnny out, and so one of the things I encourage parents to do is let your kids fail. I use the, if you remember, the bumpers in a bowling lane and I said, if your kids are bowling all the time with bumpers, they'll have better scores, but then, if you take the bumpers away, later in life they're going to be throwing gutter balls all the time, whereas when they're young they're having to bowl without bumpers. Ie mom and dad making their lives perfect and, you know, always taking up for them. They'll have worse scores early on, but they'll be better bowlers in life.

Speaker 1:

So I completely agree with that. I understand because we talked in your book. You talk about the participation awards. You know everybody gets a trophy, which I think is cool up until a certain age. But here's the fun thing If you have a truly competitive kid, I remember my son playing flag football when he was like eight and they came in at second and they had a medal for them and he wouldn't go get the medal.

Speaker 2:

Good for him.

Speaker 1:

I went and got it because I knew he had won it later on, Because, I mean, there were 12 teams and you came in second. That's probably. That's probably. That's something I'm proud of. But I was like, well, there you go, you know, and I didn't make him go get the medal. I'm like here, give it to me, and, sure enough, you know, a day later he's like should have got that medal, and I'm like, yeah, I got it.

Speaker 2:

You don't want them to be poor losers yeah, but you also want them to value progress and winning and the contribution that the team made.

Speaker 1:

the team did that. It'd be different if you're playing tennis, okay, or if you're playing golf. Those are individual sports, but when you're on a team then you have to take pride in the team. That's right. Which leads me to that, because you did coach and I get the feeling you were a pretty fair athlete, right? Yes, I was.

Speaker 1:

So as I go through the sports journey, here's the story. My oldest is very good. He's one of those kids who just picks up a sport and he'll figure it out. And in this past year his game is where, in everything he plays and I've, I think I have been blessed in this way I played sports but I was never good. I enjoyed the effort, I was a good practice player, but in the game I'd choke and I told my kids that I'd choke balls bounce off my face. I mean yeah, but uh, but I never had. So I've never.

Speaker 1:

I've never had to sit back and say you should have done this, this would have this, You'd have done that, this and that, and that I should never do that. My thing is is he used to be very competitive and they'd lose a game His we take separate cars because his mother didn't want to be in the car with him. If he lost Right, Right, no-transcript and you should have Now, if he ever gets into radio or podcasting, maybe I will go. Hey, I would have. How did you fight that, or did you give in to it?

Speaker 2:

As far as telling my son what he should do differently.

Speaker 1:

Well, just handling sports because you were an athlete? Yeah, my point is is I wasn't an athlete, so I had. No. I always told him the only thing I will ever say to you is if you have a bad attitude or if you do something that's not under the coach's purview. So if you sit back and yell or do something stupid, that ain't the coach's job. Mm-hmm, that's mine and you don't want my job.

Speaker 2:

Right. One of my mottos in life and it's always because I played sports my whole life and when I was coaching as well was just win and a lot of my life. I personally was not a good loser because I placed so much importance on winning. But in sports the cool thing, boys and girls, is you can teach so many life lessons. Like you're talking about your son, you can teach him hey, losing is terrible. We need to know that. Nobody should be just fine with losing and I'll probably have some people that disagree with me on that, but that's just the way I am. But how you handle losing is really important in terms of you know, in everything you do whether it's losing sports or you get fired from your job or somebody gets a promotion over you, whatever we have to have the mind of Christ and be humble and resilient and all that.

Speaker 2:

But you said something about the attitude. That was the thing that bugged me with players more than including my son, because he kind of had Well, my dad's a coach, you know, and so I get benefits from that, and actually the opposite was true. I made sure he didn't get any benefit from that, benefits from that, and actually the opposite was true. I made sure he didn't get any benefit from that, but teaching the the attitudes, just the camaraderie and the support for each other and not being you know, I guess you know somebody that causes dissension on the team and things like that. So it was, it was, it was a big learning curve for me, uh, in coaching him for sure.

Speaker 1:

We've had the conversation that I said. You know, and you're enough of a sports nerd, it's not that Michael Jordan even said he didn't enjoy winning, he just hated losing. Yes, and if you watch that documentary with Michael Jordan, there's nobody I would rather not spend time with than Michael Jordan. Yeah, he just doesn't seem happy, right, and when I see Jesus, you know when, when you sit back and talk, there's more, there's more celebration in heaven when we get one wayward person to come back and all the righteous people, what that says to me is it's about the winning, you know. Enjoy the wins. You know, don't base everything, but find the joy in the wins. Find the joy, you know, instead of just glom on to the failure of losing. Right, be Michael Jordan, but you'll be happier and in the long run, that, to me, is where you want to be.

Speaker 1:

And I know people send me emails right now going. I'd rather be Michael Jordan. Okay, I don't know. His kids can't stand him and he's on his. What third wife I mean? Do you? And, as far as I can tell, nobody is his close friend anymore. All the people he used to hang out with Charles Barkley, as I could tell, nobody is his close friend anymore, all the people he used to hang out with.

Speaker 2:

Charles Barkley nobody, you just can't be around. Somebody who just wants to win and not lose all the time, enjoy winning and find grace in losing.

Speaker 1:

I just think it's especially today and we talk about trying to raise kids today and this is a different world than you and I grew up in about trying to raise kids today. And this is a different world than you and I grew up in. It's a different world than people 15 years ago grew up in and it will be. I had a buddy of mine who was saying my daughter's not going to have kids and I'm like why he goes? How would you have kids? And today, can you see what all's going on in the world? And I looked at him and I said I don't know about you because he was older than me. I'm like but do you remember they used to have us hide under desks for nuclear bomb attacks.

Speaker 1:

Do you think it was easy to have kids in the 1600s when they could die the first eight years? The mortality rate in the first eight years was astronomical and yet they still found the hope right. It's like I do want to. I encourage my kids all the time because I think we can influence them. I always tell them I hope you have children, I hope you have a ton of children, my wife and I, because we're older parents if we could have met each other much younger. We both agree we've had six kids. There's no doubt in my mind we'd had six kids, that they can be the biggest pains in my neck sometimes, but they're the most fascinating, joyful things I've ever been around.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, kids are awesome.

Speaker 1:

And I try to encourage it. And I don't know how many parents are doing that anymore. You know, because we all look at oh this and oh that they're a blessing. I mean, that's what it says in the Bible there if you're truly blessed, you have children elon musk thinks so too well, yeah, it'd be nice if you'd narrow down the motherhood things. But who am I to say how many wives did david have?

Speaker 2:

so you know concubines and yeah elon's saying, he's preaching uh, everybody needs to have kids or we're going to, you know, implode as a society. But kids there's plenty. You know plenty of verses in Proverbs and all that about the. You know the quiver and all of that. And kids are great. I do have to say I hear what your friend is saying. No, it's. I think there's some challenges now in society that we didn't have, you know, when we were young and they didn't have you know, in the 1600s, mainly due to technology and social media. I think that's a whole new ball game in terms of parenting. So it's, it's something not to make you not have kids, but it's something to really stay on top of.

Speaker 1:

It is, and I think that's where the um it's. I think we're more savvy about technology as every year goes by, right? Uh, because we start understanding. Like my, my oldest has a phone to take to school. He can't take it to his room, it's got to stay downstairs. He's limited amount of time and it's my phone. I'm opening it up and looking at it anytime and I say your friends know that. And he goes yeah, and he doesn't have any social media sites. So we've become very savvy on how we do it. And all the studies show is these younger generations are when I say younger generations, I'm talking 12 to 18 are starting to pull back from the social media. They're starting to pull back from all of this because they know the negativity that comes with it. So there's always that learning curve.

Speaker 1:

And especially social media blew up because we didn't really know how to. We didn't know what it did. It's like the dot com bomb, because I'm here in Silicon Valley, my boys ask me what happened. Well, we didn't know what it was. So we figured what we would do is throw money at it, because if we throw enough money at it then we'll all make a lot of money. But we didn't know what it did, right, right. Well, now we're all becoming a lot more versed, right that we can pay attention, which is my biggest parenting advice to anyone Pay attention, pay attention.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I love the verse and I use this a lot when Jesus was, I use it for parents when Jesus was sending out the disciples. And in Matthew 10, 16, he says be as wise as serpents and gentle as doves. And I use this really relative to social media, because we always have to be gentle as doves, meaning have a Christ-like spirit and have love and joy and peace and all the fruit of the spirit. But we have to be wise as serpents when it comes to technology, because most parents have no clue how much it really affects their kids. If their kids are, you know, on Tik TOK, for instance, and and even in the programming on TV, it's Satan is getting to our kids at younger and younger ages. I'll tell you this. This is another story that just really hit home.

Speaker 2:

As a grandparent, I'm more worried about my grandkids than I was about my own kids when they were growing up. And a few months ago I was sitting with my five-year-old granddaughter and we were watching Trolls and I'm just sitting there, I don't know anything about it, and she said see that boy right there. And I said see that boy right there. And I said yeah, and she said he just had a baby. And I sat there and I said, what now? She said that boy right there just had a baby. This is in Trolls and a kid's cartoon. And I said, well, that's impossible because God made it where, you know, girls have babies and boys are the dads. And she didn't go. Oh okay, she said, well, that one did. And I thought, what a in my heart punch, a gut punch to me, to you know, with my granddaughter, who I love crazy amounts, seeing already how she's being confused with God's plan by kids' cartoons. And so you got to be wise as serpents and stay on top of it. I mean, I cannot stress that enough.

Speaker 1:

And don't be afraid to point it out. I mean I do that with my boys, especially boys, right? And I'm having to sit back and go listen. Media companies have an agenda, Movies have an agenda and they're trying to make everything. They show you this stuff all the time because they're just trying to make it be accepted.

Speaker 1:

Right, and you can have your own morals. You don't have to judge anybody, Right? I mean you remember, neither do I judge you. Go and sin no more. Key part of that is go and sin no more, but still, right that you can hold forth to your values. You can treat people with kindness, you can treat people with love, can treat people with acceptance within your values, but the moment that they demand that you lose your values to step into their values, you lose your values to step into their values. Now you're creating a conflict that's going to be hard to overcome for you and you will at some point. You will, Because we've raised them, they have a deep faith. At some point the Holy Spirit's not going to leave you, he's going to go. Hey, you know, right? I mean you've got to figure out, and that's not to judge anybody else. Everybody else got their own story to tell, but don't ever think that there's not an agenda going on social media pretty much, if you think about it.

Speaker 2:

I like to take points in time. Think about when Columbine happened in 99. And it was school shooting and it was like the biggest thing that happened in a decade. It's all people talked about. We couldn't believe it. And now if I see a school shooting on TV, it's just another headline and I don't even really listen that much to it.

Speaker 2:

Or if you think about what Satan's done with drugs, you know, used to when you and I were young if you got caught with pot, you're in huge trouble and you're getting arrested and all that. Now it's legal in lots of different places and you know there's different viewpoints on that and you know that's OK, I guess. Or if you think about crime, used to, if you got caught shoplifting, you're dead. You know, as far as you know, with your parents and with the police, and now up to $950, it's OK. So he's been in our society and in our culture. He's been masterful at making things slowly and slowly and slowly become okay and then even embraced. If you think about the deviant sexual lifestyles, what used to be wrong became tolerated and then from tolerated to celebrate. So you got to keep your eyes open, man Not to be too alarmist, but I'll say I am alarmist about that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's what I go back to. Pay attention. I mean because, again, whatever your morals are, whatever your standards are, you and I are both Christians, but I know there are some faithful Muslims, some faithful Jews, some faithful Mormons. You know plenty of people who have a value system. You know, and as long as it's not hurting other people, if it's all about the values that you live within, pay attention and if you want your children to be raised with morals and values, it's up to you. You are still.

Speaker 1:

They had this study. A buddy of mine wrote a book and he showed me this study. They talked to teenagers between the ages of 15 and 19. And they asked who do you wish you could spend more time with? The number one answer Parents. Wow, number one answer. Number two answer and parents was like 58 percent. Number two was friends at 30 percent. So even when they roll their eyes and act like they don't want to, they do. They want those. They do. They want those times with you. Create those times. Play the game night. You know, do stuff Sit, make your. I have. We did it last night. You have to make them sit down and watch a movie with you. Come here, come, no, no, no. Sit down, watch a movie and, at the end of the night, blah, blah, blah. Everybody was having a great time.

Speaker 2:

That's right.

Speaker 1:

They want that time with you, even when you don't think you did. You and I, my parents passed for a long time and I would sell my boys the same thing If I could. I don't think there's anything I would not sell that I own to have five more minutes with my mother, right and so. So by this time now I'm not going to be here all the time, you know, but I'll be, you know, but I plan on spending eternity with you. I always told my kids this when you get to heaven, the first face you see will be Jesus, but you know who will be peeking over his shoulder? This guy Right.

Speaker 2:

That's right.

Speaker 1:

I look forward to it. Well, I have enjoyed the conversation. I told you I'd go down to 37 different rabbit holes.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

I love it and everything else. And we didn't even get a chance to talk about your music. And have you had, have you had, any success in the songwriting?

Speaker 2:

written a ton of songs. But you know how Nashville is. You can't do it halfway, You've got to be out there and I'm not willing to be out there. So it's turned into more of a passion project for me, but I love writing and recording.

Speaker 1:

That's my advice have it, stay fun. That's right, Because getting into it, you're right. There's so many athletes who are now in the music business and I had well Brett Young told me it's the most competitive thing he's ever been in.

Speaker 2:

You know he played pro baseball and he goes. It's the most competitive thing I've ever been in. And now AI is going to ruin it anyway. Yeah, I think I think it. Anyway. Yeah, I think I think you were talking about how social media has kind of lost its luster, because now chat GPT is going to be the next you know dot com kind of thing it's. It's going to be really interesting to see where that all goes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's I. I always sit back and you know my favorite saying and everybody who knows me knows this is nothing ever turns out the way you think it will. Nothing ever does you know. And so it's the fact that the AI, and the first thing that they developed with the AI is how to spot AI Right. So they've developed bots now who can spot AI Right. So it's, it's always that, and I think it will create more demand for craftsmanship, for the handmade human touch Right, because I've read a lot, I've heard some of these AI songs. At some point it's just like orange juice and toothpaste and you can't. There's words that we all think of it. You know Tim McGraw's years of bad decision running down her face. Ai can't write that.

Speaker 2:

Because AI hasn't felt it Right.

Speaker 1:

But when we hear that line we go, oh boy.

Speaker 2:

Have you ever asked Chad GBT to write a lyric for a song?

Speaker 1:

No, I've had him write a column in my voice.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And it's interesting and if you're listening, I'd ever used it and even I found it stilted. I'm like oh kind of, but I would never have said that, I would never have brought that up.

Speaker 2:

My experience and I'm not a country artist. So when Chat and GBT first came out, I said I typed in like three keywords for a country song, like a song about my ex, so I can't remember what it was. And for me in 10 seconds it wrote intro verse, verse, chorus verse, you know, outro, outro. And it was better than anything I could have ever thought of. Really, yes, I still have it upstairs in my music studio. I couldn't believe it. It was amazingly well-written. So we'll see, but keep an eye on AI, as it relates to lots of stuff.

Speaker 1:

Oh well, we're here in the world of AI. I mean, it was all developed up at Stanford and one of the guys who developed it he said you know the thing that we found out about AI? You know what you know? The biggest thing? It learned how to do Lie. It will give you the result that you want not the result that's right. It will learn what your preferences are and it will give you the results you want. And he goes and we can't explain it. We don't know why.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we don't know what we have. Just like when social media came out or the dot com it's. Who knows what it's going to turn into.

Speaker 1:

Steve, I've enjoyed this hour. Thank you so much for being generous with your time.

Speaker 2:

Thank, you, gary, gary, blessings to you, brother, I really appreciate it. Blessings to you too. I'll talk to you again sounds good.