In this episode, I talk with Dustin Diefenderfer, Founder of MTNTOUGH Fitness, about his journey from the missionary fields of Africa to training the ultimate outdoor athletes on the mountain. We talk about overcoming adversity, honing mental toughness, and pushing through mental roadblocks. Dustin has built training programs with the help of Special Forces soldiers, hunted some of the most rugged backcountry wilderness areas imaginable, and hails from the great state of Montana.
We also talk about the value of physical courage, a passion for hunting in the wild, and the many lessons Dustin has learned leading a company and serving his people.
Get a free month on MTNTOUGH+. Go to MTNTOUGH.com, click start free trial, then enter promo code MTNPOD
Check out MTNTOUGH on Instagram.
Sign up for the New Christendom Press Conference in June 2024.
Join the Patreon exclusive membership.
10 Ways to Make Money with Your MAXX-D Trailer.
Alpine Gold Exchange Website: alpinegoldogden.com
Set Up a Meeting: https://calendly.com/alpinegold/alpine-gold-consultation
Talk to Joe Garrisi about managing your wealth with Backwards Planning Financial.
Visit https://premierbodyarmor.com/hardmen and use promo code HARDMEN for 10% off your order. Got questions? Reach out to customer service or send their President an email directly at alex@premierbodyarmor.com and speak to him yourself.
Buy your beef or pork box today from Salt and Strings Butchery. Use code "HMP" to get $20 off your next order.
Contact Private Family Banking Partner at banking@privatefamilybanking.com to set up a free private consultation and get started building wealth now and unto future generations. "For a free copy of a new book "Protect Your Money Now! How to Build Multi-Generational Wealth Outside of Wall Street and Avoid the Coming Banking Meltdown" by Private Family Banking Partner, Chuck DeLadurantey, go to
In this episode, I talk with Dustin Diefenderfer, Founder of MTNTOUGH Fitness, about his journey from the missionary fields of Africa to training the ultimate outdoor athletes on the mountain. We talk about overcoming adversity, honing mental toughness, and pushing through mental roadblocks. Dustin has built training programs with the help of Special Forces soldiers, hunted some of the most rugged backcountry wilderness areas imaginable, and hails from the great state of Montana.
We also talk about the value of physical courage, a passion for hunting in the wild, and the many lessons Dustin has learned leading a company and serving his people.
Get a free month on MTNTOUGH+. Go to MTNTOUGH.com, click start free trial, then enter promo code MTNPOD
Check out MTNTOUGH on Instagram.
Sign up for the New Christendom Press Conference in June 2024.
Join the Patreon exclusive membership.
10 Ways to Make Money with Your MAXX-D Trailer.
Alpine Gold Exchange Website: alpinegoldogden.com
Set Up a Meeting: https://calendly.com/alpinegold/alpine-gold-consultation
Talk to Joe Garrisi about managing your wealth with Backwards Planning Financial.
Visit https://premierbodyarmor.com/hardmen and use promo code HARDMEN for 10% off your order. Got questions? Reach out to customer service or send their President an email directly at alex@premierbodyarmor.com and speak to him yourself.
Buy your beef or pork box today from Salt and Strings Butchery. Use code "HMP" to get $20 off your next order.
Contact Private Family Banking Partner at banking@privatefamilybanking.com to set up a free private consultation and get started building wealth now and unto future generations. "For a free copy of a new book "Protect Your Money Now! How to Build Multi-Generational Wealth Outside of Wall Street and Avoid the Coming Banking Meltdown" by Private Family Banking Partner, Chuck DeLadurantey, go to
This episode of the Hard man Podcast is brought to you by Joe Garrisey, with Backwards Planning Financial, by Alpine Gold, by our friends at Maxi Trailers, by Salt and Strings, butchery, private Family Banking and, finally, this episode is brought to you by Premier Body Armor. Well, welcome to this episode of the Hard man Podcast. Of course I'm your host, eric Kahn, delighted that you could join me for this episode. We've been busy here at New Christen and Press, a lot of really exciting things going on. We just got back a few weeks ago from the Wright Response Conference with Joel Webb and Pastor Joel Webb down in Texas. Got to meet a lot of you there. That was really a phenomenal experience.
Speaker 1:I got to talk on patriarchy, so really excited about that. The talk on biblical patriarchy should be releasing within the next few weeks so once we have that up we'll link to it here. But that was a really fun talk. Got to talk about how Russell Moore used to actually be a supporter of patriarchy, had some super-based things actually to say in the early 2000s. So be looking for that link. We'll include that as well for our Patreon supporters if you're over on Patreon where you can check out that talk. I think that's going to be. We had good feedback. It was really sounded like pivotal for a lot of people A lot of the first-time listeners to talk on patriarchy, so it was exciting. A lot of ladies thinking through should I be a career woman? Is that where I need to plug in, or what's my role for the household? So really cool to see so many people talking about that.
Speaker 1:On top of all of that, we're going to be talking in this episode with Dustin Diefrenderfer from Mountain Tough Fitness and recently, through all the weightlifting and weight training with Matt Reynolds, just hit 400 pounds on deadlifts. So I'm kind of in the mood to talk about fitness. And Dustin is really a cool guy. He's the founder of Mountain Tough, obviously. Yeah, just a really cool story how him and his wife kind of were missionaries, got the idea in coming back for what they wanted to do, and Adam Montana, mountain Tough is the result and really their goal is to change people's lives. Of course, especially they're aimed at the hunting community. So it's near and dear to my heart Love what they're doing. I've been doing them on Instagram for a long time but really pushing people to compete well on the mountain and to be ready for mountain hunting. So really interesting conversation with him today, really blessed by the conversation as well. I also love picking his brain about some of the challenges of running a company, providing for people some of the lessons that he's learned. So that was really insightful and I was really helped by that as well.
Speaker 1:One thing I want to say as we jump into this episode is be sure to check out newchristenedimpresscom slash conference. We have got a conference upcoming in Ogden, utah. That is June 6th through 8th. We're really excited about this host of great speakers, including Dr Joe Rigney. We've got Pastor Joel Webin, j Chase Davis is going to be there and Dr Stephen Wolfe is going to be there as well. We're really excited for that. A lot of really great guys. Brian Sauvay you may know him. He's got Imagine Dragons or, excuse me, something about dragons. He's got a couple albums out now and he's going to be having a live concert. We've got a singles mixer. So be sure to visit newchristenedimpresscom slash conference. Get your tickets now.
Speaker 1:Here's what I will also say. If you're sitting there and you're saying I'd love to come, but money is an issue, we want you to reach out. You can reach out to Cassie C-A-S-S-I-E at newchristenedimpresscom. We'd love to work with you If there's any way that we can help you get here. We really believe in the project of building Christendom 2.0. This conference is going to be about Alfred's Burrows and how can we establish Christian Burrows today, and so we want to encourage you with that. We want to encourage networking, meeting other great Christian people. If you're single, we have the singles mixer. Bottom line is we want you there and if we can help in any way with that, please reach out and we'd love to talk with you, work with you.
Speaker 1:We have just an incredible venue in Ogden, utah. We have Ogden High School and an old theater built in 1936. Recently had a $65 million renovation. They just don't make them like this anymore. It's just a phenomenal old style art deco type theater with stadium seating. It's just a really beautiful facility, because that's where we're going to be. We have plenty of seats, up to 2,000 seats, so really ton of space. We're going to worship there on Sunday, so please join us Again. Reach out if you would like to be a part of that. And at this point now we're going to jump into the conversation with Dustin Diefendorfer. He is again the founder of Mount and Tough Fitness. Well, welcome to this episode of the Hard Men Podcast. I'm your host, eric Kahn, and joined today by Dustin Diefendorfer, the founder of Mount and Tough Fitness. Dustin, thanks so much for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thanks for the opportunity. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Well, I've been following for a long time you guys' social media platforms following the fitness programs, looking at that, usually getting exhausted just watching them as I watch other people suffer vicariously. But I want to talk about this, like how you guys got into that. What was going on in your life under your corporate America? But at some point you make this transition, something clicks and you get into the really fitness slash hunting industry space. I just want you to walk me through. How did you get there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the founding story of Mount and Tough is amazing. It is a long story so I'll cover it for a little bit here because I got to go back a little ways to capture all the details of kind of how it all came together. But I'm a Montana kid. I was born and raised in Montana. My family, I had a ton of uncles, so my dad came from a family of nine and they grew up in the mountains outside of Sheridan Wyoming in the big horns. So with all these uncles and my dad we spent my whole childhood fishing, camping, hiking, hunting, shooting. We were looking for any opportunity outside all the time, from backpacking trips to horseback trips, lots of backpack fly fishing. And then that evolved as I got older into archery.
Speaker 2:My dad got into competitive archery when I was a sophomore in high school and we spent a tremendous amount of time hanging out at the bow shop. We actually went there every day at noon for a couple of years and shot our bows five days a week because he was an indoor competition shooter. And so those childhood years I grew up in this Billings Landmark archery shop and around all these older than me legendary hunters that were always in there tuning their bows and giving us little tips and tricks, and that same group that were helping my dad with his indoor competition shooting. They started inviting us on all these different backcountry archery elk hunts and that's really when my passion just took off for archery elk hunting In Montana. We're so blessed with amazing opportunities to fish, hike, hunt, ski, but there was something really special to me about being in the mountains in September and archery elk is unlike anything I'd ever experienced. You have these bugling bowls that are coming at you mad and screaming and knocking over trees and you have to draw an arrow on them and make a clean shot. And especially in those days you got to make a clean shot About 40 yards or less, and bows have come further than that now, but it was just the adrenaline pump that you got from. That was very addicting to me. So I went all in on that and started becoming as serious as I could be, focusing most of my life, whether that was the time I spent on things or where I lived or what I did for work.
Speaker 2:I was facing a lot of that around archery elk hunting and I finished college here in Bozeman and I graduated with a marketing management entrepreneurship degree because entrepreneurship was always something I was quite interested in and I really liked the idea of starting my own business someday. What happened was interesting, though. I guided fly fishing through college to get that degree and I was doing a lot of archery elk hunting. And I met my wife in college as well, and she was a runner, so I hated running, but she was the person that you hear about. Sometimes that got that runner's high and she just loved to run, and I was doing a lot of gym training at that time, and I was doing that gym training to see how I could be a better backcountry elk hunter, and so I was in the gym all the time, but I always had my eye on September. How could I be in the best possible shape to be prepared for the backcountry in September and the heavy packs that that was going to require? But when she and I met, I started doing some running with her and we started going all in on that journey too. We kind of go over the top on everything we do, which is one of our great strengths and our great weaknesses and the ultra marathoning that we eventually got into. Even though I hated running, I did start to kind of fall in love with the mental toughness side of it, especially because I was not a born runner. The mindset it took to finish some of those events was pretty addicting to me, because you're whole body is telling you to stop, your whole body is telling you to take a break and rest and maybe not finish. But you had to dig in between your ears and find these mental hacks, tips, tricks, tools to actually finish those events, and so that was really interesting to me because you didn't really experience that in the gym but you could experience that on these hunts and you could experience that certainly on these ultra events.
Speaker 2:But the trajectory kind of took a change after I graduated and I graduated here in Bozeman and right away I got this on paper amazing corporate job and we were interviewing Fortune 100 C level executives to share ideas as a think tank and this was actually before Zoom and Google Meet and these executives would come together on conference calls and I would facilitate these conference calls between 12 and 15 executives, but they had no idea I was this young kid from Montana and these were like C level executives from UPS and Starbucks, nike, american Express, american Airlines and they were just getting together to share ideas and then a corporate sponsor would pay for that event. It was, on paper, phenomenal. They were paying us ridiculous amounts of money for our age. But I quickly realized that I kind of did what the world tells you to do. I didn't do what my heart was telling me to do and my heart was really about adventure, being physical, being outside. But because I had that business degree, I kind of went down this corporate route and that caught up with me pretty quickly. And being in the office all the time and on the phone all the time and on computers all the time, without that adventure still in my life I definitely hit like a debate.
Speaker 2:The press state and my wife was going through a similar experience where she got a marketing degree, was at a phenomenal agency here in Bozeman, but she was in that similar boat where she just didn't feel like she was where her calling was telling her to be and we both felt kind of this discontent with we have these great things, great life here in Bozeman, but something was missing and so we both quit our jobs at the same time and we went and did missionary work in Africa for a while. So we went from Ethiopia to working with kids that lived. They actually lived in the landfill, so it would be like if you went to the Ogden landfill and there was 200 kids living there full time, and so they ate there, they slept there, they would pick plastic out of the garbage pile to sell to the recycling facilities, and so we spent time there. And then that led us, through a Bozeman connection, to work for this guy in Uganda, and he had been building orphanages in Uganda since 2001,. But his latest concept that we ended up going to work for was building future leaders of Uganda through entrepreneurship, and so he had this campus of 240 kids and the real goal was to teach them how to create micro-businesses so that they didn't spend the rest of their life in the welfare system. They could actually come out of the orphanage with skills to be a future leader of Uganda.
Speaker 2:So that really hit our sweet spot. I mean, that was exactly what we were looking for. It was physical, we were outside every day, we were farming, we had a pineapple grove, a chicken farm, a tilapia pond, and then just surrounded by all those kids, and it was 24-7 at adrenaline, like in Africa, you just never know what's gonna happen. And so we kind of felt like we found our zone. We were in the place we were supposed to be, and we definitely I still think that's accurate for the season we were there, and while we were there, my wife got pregnant with our first daughter, and our first daughter was we knew she was gonna be born in Bozeman.
Speaker 2:Just with the health risks over there, like there's even the basic first aid clinics over there are pretty terrible compared to American standards, and you have the health and safety risks, and we were naive, though, so we had never had a kid before we thought it was gonna be this fairly simple process where we were gonna come home to Bozeman, have our daughter born in the Bozeman hospital and stay with friends and family for six weeks or so and then just return back to work in Africa with this baby. And it's pretty funny thinking about it in hindsight, because that was the plan and we didn't have a plan B, because it was so clear in our heads that we'll just have her born in Bozeman and return back to work and in the Bozeman hospital. When she came out as this human, this angel that we were now responsible for protecting and providing for, I just kind of knew right away that we weren't going back for a while. And that's really kind of where we hit the ground with. Now's the time to start mountain tough and to back that up a little bit.
Speaker 2:What really happened in that moment in that hospital was I knew we weren't going back for a while. I didn't know how long that would be, but just to get to that. Orphanage is a difficult process, so getting a baby there was unrealistic. But because we were so certain that that was what we're gonna do, we were stuck here without a plan B no jobs, no house. We had sold most of our possessions to make all the Africa stuff work. So no vehicles. So we're stuck in Bozeman with no plan B.
Speaker 2:But for years, with the elk hunting and the running in the gym, these mountain tough ideas had been bubbling up for a long time, which is really cool because it was this. It was kind of this burn the ships moment that happened where it was like, well, I could go get a job again, or now's the time to kind of get this thing off the ground that I've been thinking about for a long time. And so that's when we went for it. And it was really amazing because no one, even now today, but certainly when we started no one was doing mission specific programming for the back country hunter and when I looked at it then all elite sporting organizations they train for a specific mission.
Speaker 2:So the NFL is gonna train specifically to win games and they're gonna train their offensive linemen for that job and they're gonna train the wide receiver for a different job.
Speaker 2:And the military knows this, nfl knows this, nhl knows this, pro soccer, baseball they all train specifically for critical skills to be successful.
Speaker 2:But no one had ever packaged that up for the back country hunter.
Speaker 2:And the back country hunter is a really unique athlete.
Speaker 2:They are very close to a military athlete, like a special operations person, but they are still unique because if you're successful in the back country, especially if you're alone or with one friend, you're gonna have to bring some heavy packs off the mountain and for your do it yourself elk hunter that's 400 pound loads. So if you're three to five to seven miles back there, you have to bring 400 pound loads off the mountain, and so it's a very unique skill set and no one was taking care of that demographic and so we went for it and we started with a flyer hanging in the Bozeman bow shop and it started in the park behind my house and it was really cool because it's felt God breathed since the beginning and it really felt like the market was kind of sitting there waiting for us to exist, because I feel like a lot of people had been crushed by the mountain but no one ever said like here's a step by step plan to make sure that doesn't happen again and that's kind of what we went after.
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Speaker 1:Yeah, it's incredible. I mean, there's so many moments like this. We were talking offline before this started, like even when I started Hardman Podcast. It was like I got furloughed for a couple of months during COVID and then God kind of used that time, put people in my life, was like exactly what you said, like now's the time to go for it, and it really is fascinating because there's affluence that you can attain in the corporate space. But it seems like the real key is finding that thing that you're passionate about, that you're really good at, and that's answering the bell for other people as well.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting to me because I think about just being blessed with being in the hunting industry for a number of years, almost a decade. You go on all these hunts and I remember the guides, like you'd be you know, be like British Columbia, and you'd get this list from the guides, and it would be like walk on the Stairmaster, like 10 minutes each week, and having done it, I was like that is a joke, that is not gonna do anything for you. And also the number of times like I went out, I was training for a triathlon, got my butt kicked on a mountain or had friends who were marathon runners. It's just different when you're carrying weight off your back. So, yeah, talk to me just a little bit about the mission specific and what's so unique about hunting that you start to look at that and you say like, okay, you need power, but you also need endurance. It's actually kind of complicated what you've got to prepare for.
Speaker 2:It's really interesting and that light bulb moment definitely went off for me through that ultra marathon kind of running season of my life and we weren't running the crazy ones that you see now. You know, now there's it's fairly common for these ultra marathoners to run 250 miles in the mountains and I remember when we were more into it the top of the echelon was a hundred miler, like if you'd ran a hundred miler you had done something crazy. And now they just took that out and they didn't even. Not only did they double it, they added an extra 50 miles. So now, like the cream of the crop, massive elite events are 250 milers. But when we were more involved in that community we were running the 50 Ks, which is quite less than you see now.
Speaker 2:But that year that we were doing a lot of those types of events, those events are in the mountains that you're going to be hunting in later that year, especially in Montana. So you go run a 50 K and you're in. You're in those mountains training and doing the event in July, knowing you're going to be back a couple months later in September to hunt elk, sometimes off those same trail systems. And so I was so excited that it was going to be a phenomenal year and because I was training so much in that same back country and it certainly was from the perspective of if you focus only on cardio, you're lean and you're mean and you can get to where you're flying through the back country. But that year was one of the worst pack outs of my life and it was because of what you just mentioned that it is a complicated system where if you lose all your muscle mass or you lose too much muscle or you don't focus on strength training at all, then you will be able to move through the back country, but the heavy packs are going to throw a different element at you. And that's definitely what happened to me and that's really when I thought that someone should break down that mission and train to these skills and and so mount and tough when we started.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what we have done. We focus a tremendous amount on cardio and endurance and stamina, but we're also spending a lot of time on focusing on strength and muscle endurance and and your chassis. So your chassis is like, if you think of a F-150, everything underneath that F-150 that's allowing that system to operate really well on the external perspective. That chassis becomes really important when it's time to get a heavy pack off the mountain. And so that's going to be your core, but it's also your core traps back, lower back and your single leg stability through your hips, ankles and knees. And so we treat we treat every mount and tough athlete from this whole list this very holistic approach of how do we create essentially the, an ultimate hybrid athlete that is Really good at strength, but not Traditional strength, because traditional strength you can move a lot of weight for one to five reps. That doesn't do you a lot of good in the back country because you need to have strength with an incredible about of muscular endurance. So we focus a lot on that hybrid training style so that our mountain tough community has a very high degree of Functional fitness, and so the functional fitness allows them To be always ready for anything that life is going to throw their way.
Speaker 2:But I think it is important that we did decide on our founding day. When we founded the company, we said this is all going to be backed up by a high degree of mental toughness. And so in those early years we said we're going to be the best in the world helping our customers become more mentally tough Because we knew from all our experience in the back country that the mental oftentimes, most times, trump's the physical, and so that mental side Can trump your physical condition, your physical shape for the hunt. So we knew it would be a mistake to not focus on that. So, in addition to all the training that we're doing Around the critical skill requirements to be successful backcountry hunter, we we bake into everything we do. How can we make these folks more Mentally tough between the ears?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so interesting. I know you guys recently had I think was Andy Stumpf was on talking about that with the mental. You know, it always struck me that even when we're in high school we do these workouts For pitchers and catchers and I remember our coach would always do things like okay, run a mile and then we'll be done. You get done with the mile and you'd have like 10 more things and you're like this guy, I want to. But it really messed with the mental aspect of like he would say later like yeah, cuz you're gonna hit points where you want to be done. You thought you were done but you've got to find another gear.
Speaker 1:I can remember I think was two years ago I end up helping a buddy pack out In the Colorado it deep snow, this is late season pack out an elk and and he shot it like 4 pm On a Saturday night. So it's like we're gonna pack this thing out in just frigid temps, it's like zero or below and we we pack out half quarter. My son and I go up there, get another. We come back. I think we're done, because I thought he had grabbed to and gone to the truck and and I was like Where's the quarters, where's your quarters? And he's like, oh, I kind of got lost and these other guys helped me out.
Speaker 1:We made it back to the truck and he was like we got to go back and I was thinking that was one of those moments of mental toughness and especially because my son was there, I was thinking to myself, well, what are you gonna show? You know, because a lot of it comes down to leadership too in these moments and it really quickly can turn into a survival situation as well. Right like these are potentially life-threatening situations hypothermia, getting lost, having enough water, do you have food, are you warm? That sort of thing. So I'm curious in in your training and what you guys do like how is it that you actually build in that mental toughness aspect?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so, it's so cool because of them. You know, the mental toughness side of things is Endless and kind of the possibilities are are endless and we we see that Every day with what a lot of people are are able to accomplish and that they're pushing those limits. Every year we see these crazy accomplishments from a lot of different people, and Mountain tough has always viewed it as we have to. We have to teach people how to overcome adversity and not let any adverse situation knock them down and keep them down. And it's really cool to me to think about it from that perspective, because a lot of times when you hear mental toughness, our mental fitness, your, your mind does quickly usually go to a sporting figure, so some sort of professional sporting figure, whether that's a fighter or a football player or a mountaineer. But True, true mental toughness to me, now that I've been able to Spend a little bit of time in it through the years of mountain tough we're going into our eighth year now is Not really physical. It's how can you get your mind into a position that Nothing in life is going to take you down and keep you down. It's no matter what life throws at you, it. It might hurt. It's gonna hurt and it it could knock you down, but you're gonna get right back up and you're gonna immediately go to that solution based thinking rather than staying in negative based thinking. And so Over the last couple years We've we've spent more time focusing on the mindset for our customers and in a bigger picture approach, so that not only are they applying it on these backcountry hunts, they're applying it at hard days at home, hard days in the office. So that same mind is the same mindset tools in your toolbox Can be applied whether you get hit with a blizzard on a archery Elk on on day seven, or if you get, it does happen or the. You're gonna want to use those same tools if you get hit with a massive financial crisis at work and and you get laid off and you have to come up with a different plan. And so the same Mental toughness tools can be applied in both those situations. And the more that we practice them in, the more options we have in that toolbox, the better, and so, even through the podcast, like with Andy and a lot of these other guests, in addition to the training we've done at mountaintuff Recently, it's become more apparent to me that the more tools you have in that mental fitness toolbox, the better, because different tools work better in different situations. And the more we can practice Doing hard things, the the bigger that toolbox gets and the more robust it is. So in in mountaintuff's training we do a lot of Turning ceilings into floors.
Speaker 2:Turning ceilings into floors is a is a well documented mental toughness Hack that helps people really develop the mindset that we're looking for and so turning ceilings into floors. You see it a lot out in the world where someone Says I could never run a 5k. A 5k is impossible. I'm not a runner, I don't run. There's no way I'm doing a 5k. So that 5k is that individuals Ceiling. And then you spend some time with them so it's like, well, let's get you there. Can you walk around your block? Yes, okay, so they walk around the block. Then can you run around your block? Yes, and eventually you get them to do that 5k. That 5k is their new floor and it used to be their ceiling.
Speaker 2:When that moment happens, that person has this Dopamine and adrenaline experience where it feels so good to finally turn that Ceiling into a floor that oftentimes you'll see them go from the 5k to the 10k and the 10k to the half marathon and the half marathon to the full, and then you even see it go to the Iron man a lot of times from that and you'll see them lose 40 or 50 pounds through that experience. All from that Turning a ceiling into a floor experience. So so we do that every day on our programs. A lot of times in our programs we're gonna, we're gonna show you a workout that looks impossible and then we're gonna help you get through that. And you're gonna get through it at the end and be like I really I did not think I could accomplish that and I did. There's stuff like that baked into our programming and there's a lot of other tactics to like false finishes where you think you're at the finish but we're gonna let you know you're actually not at the finish, just to see if your mind can handle that that breakdown moment right there.
Speaker 2:The mindset stuff is so, so cool because I think, learning over the last eight years, I really truly believe now that our mindset is exactly like our muscle.
Speaker 2:So if you body build and you build a big bicep, you spent specific time training that bicep specifically and we can do the exact same thing with our mind and exactly like that bicep, if you stop working on it then it is going to atrophy and our mind is the exact same way, from my experience.
Speaker 2:So you see this a lot of times with even special operators. They were extremely mentally tough to get through selection and get through their career. But if they get out and they stop, and they stop doing hard things and they stop looking for adverse situations and putting themselves through them, then their mindset atrophies. And we see that a lot where the ones that continue learning, continue trying new things, continue to add hard things into their daily regimen, they keep that mindset, that mental toughness, at an elite level through their entire lives. But you can also watch some of them that quit and quit, putting themselves in adverse situations, and that elite mindset can atrophy. So viewing it as a muscle has been really helpful to me, because if you view it as a muscle then you know that from that perspective you should be training it every day, and so finding hard things to do every day is going to help you when you actually kind of get punched in the face by life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's so key too. I mean, we have the world we live in now. It's so easy to live a comfortable, air conditioned, soft, cushy life. But you're absolutely right, I remember doing triathlon. I did that for a while because it was really hard and I really enjoyed just. You know, it was a release from work, but it was also like a way to push myself to be able to slog through the miles.
Speaker 1:As you said, I wasn't like a natural runner but I liked the mental test of can I keep pushing when I don't feel like it? Right, am I able to do that sort of thing? And then in more recent years, even doing just powerlifting style training. And I remember starting that and it was just because it was so hard. I was like, yeah, I really like this, I need to push myself in this way for this season.
Speaker 1:And I remember, like starting out and I'm deadlifting like 200 pounds and my trainer, matt, he told me he was like we're going to get you to 400. And it's that floor ceiling, because I was like, dude, I can't even do like 225. Like that feels like it's going to snap my tiny little torso in half, like what am I going to do? And it's that incremental, just like just trust me, just follow the program, just do the work every day, and it's crazy. Then you'd hit like I hit like 300 and he was like okay, that's your news, that's your new floor, we're going to keep pushing.
Speaker 1:And I feel like that's got to be something about coaching, having guys push you. I don't necessarily it's hard to do that just for myself, but if you can find like a community like you know you guys, like you have an app, you have trainers, that sort of thing, that level of accountability also helps you get there. And somebody else who's like you know if you've trained other people and you know where you can get them. They don't know that they can get there, but it seems like that's a huge part of it too right Is the accountability piece as the trainer you know, like you're actually way more capable than you even think or know, so correct me if I'm wrong Like that piece is really hugely important for people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that piece is huge. I do agree that that is that is difficult to do alone. The only there's been a few things that I've seen to be really helpful to that point and I think it sounds like you you're doing it and I think that it is. It is related to trying new things and being a beginner at something and going from beginner to intermediate to advanced and once and once you're at advanced, shifting gears and trying something new. That's hard, but for someone who is out there alone and doesn't have that coach or that community to to push them to that next level.
Speaker 2:One of the things over the last few years that I've seen work the best is they call it the Spartan effect, and the Spartan effect is putting something difficult on your calendar.
Speaker 2:That is going to make you pretty uncomfortable, and I've I've seen that to be a true game changer.
Speaker 2:Even for me personally it's been a game changer, and so if I am ever feeling like I'm in a training rut or my training is getting a little boring, then signing up for something that is outside of my comfort zone fixes that problem immediately and it fixes that intensity in the gym alone immediately, and it has to be a little more than just looking at an event on the internet that I mean.
Speaker 2:The absolute best thing you could do to kind of change your mindset right now, today, after listening to this podcast, is actually registering for something. That's hard for you and everyone's hard is different. So for some people that's going to be a half marathon. For some people that's going to be like a Spartan beast event. For some people that's going to be a powerlifting competition or jujitsu competition. But the real magic seems to happen when you register, like you need to swipe that card and register, and once, like, register and buy your plane tickets, and your whole week changes immediately. Your ability to prioritize time changes immediately and all of a sudden you're not missing workouts, you're waking up on time, you're going to bed early and your intensity at those workouts goes to a whole new level and all you did was register and swipe your card. It's a really cool trick that's been helpful for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can think of that too, especially when it's like you buy the hunting tag and you're like, if I don't get after this, this is going to be a miserable experience, so I better get after it. It's also interesting too, because it's one of the blessings I think of our time is that even when I was a kid, we didn't have like smartphones or even cell phones or anything like that. But you guys have developed the app. This is really useful, particularly because people are traveling. Anything that you can do to keep people on the program, like keep doing it, even if you're at a hotel, even if you're in an Airbnb, whatever, but I guess for our listeners. Talk to me a little bit about the app. What does it feature? How is it helpful for the end user?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the Mountain Tuff app has come a long way since the beginning and now it's pretty fun to talk about it now, because one way to describe it quickly is sometimes we say it's like Peloton for badass dudes. So what I mean by that is there's kind of everything in there now. So we have programs from no gear to minimal gear, sandbag kettlebell to full gear, and we have programs from beginner you've never trained before through intermediate, all the way up to very elite and advanced programming. And then we have programs that are self-guided, where we're going to tell you on video what we want you to do today and then you go do it. And we have programs on there that are fully coached. So that is essentially as close to live as you can get, like a Mountain Tuff personal trainer in your pocket. You hit play, you're going to see a Mountain Tuff coach either myself or Sarah or Mark or Nick and we are going to coach you through the workout. And you hit play and that's all you have to do. There'll be two Mountain Tuff athletes on screen that you can benchmark off of and compete with, and so physically, from the physical standpoint, there is a huge catalog of training programs in there. Whether you train at home, we have you covered. Whether you train at a full gym or a robust gym, we have you covered. And based on your personal preference, if you like to do self-guided programs or coached programs, we have you covered.
Speaker 2:Additionally, if you're a back country hunter or you're planning on hunting this year, we have hunting programming that covers 365 days of the year. So we have the preseason, the in season, the post season, so we'll cover you as a hunter, five days a week for the full calendar year. Based off that mission, specific training, philosophy, and then, additionally from we're just such huge believers on training holistically, and what that means for Mountain Tuff is we're going to train you physically, mentally, spiritually and nutritionally. So in the app you'll find a full library of specific mindset curriculum, and so we have a mindset 1.0 and 2.0 program. So that's not a physical program, it's like a masterclass on mental toughness. And then you'll find the same thing from a spiritual development standpoint. We have content in there on marriage, fatherhood, because we want you sharpening physically, spiritually, and then there are several nutritional programs in there as well. So the app is so fun and exciting for me to look at now just from where we started.
Speaker 2:We started with one program that was preseason prep for the back country hunter, and now one of our most popular programs is the MGD. We call it the minimal gear daily, and we were talking earlier about being in a community and being with a coach. It's as close as we could get to stepping foot into a mountain tough class but digitally, so it's fresh every 24 hours. If you miss it, you miss it. You don't get to see what everyone did that day. So it's brand new every day. It expires every day and you're there with us in the lab and all you have to do is hit play and that product's really taken off.
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Speaker 1:I want to ask you too, on the training. One of the tough things is always a blending endurance, cardio, maintaining muscle mass. My immediate thought I watched you guys do in the programs across the years and probably the easiest way to answer can you have endurance and maintain muscle mass? I'm like I don't know. You and your crew are yoked. I guess the answer is yes. That's great In terms of the training. How do you balance that so that you're not losing muscle mass? I'm sure nutrition is going to play Pivotally in here, but finding that right balance between you know what people think of as higher cardio calisthenics versus you know strength training, traditional style.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really kind of. They're calling that the the hybrid athlete. Now, you know, a few years ago there was no name for it, but now there's a lot of literature and science around this hybrid athlete and and there there actually was a guy two years ago that squatted 500 pounds and then later that afternoon he ran a five-minute mile on the same day. So he squatted 500 and then ran five minute mile on this on the same afternoon and I think he was kind of like the spearhead of the name hybrid athlete. He wanted to prove that you could really. You could really have both and that to my, in my mind, in my opinion and from what I've seen, that is accurate you can have both it. You, if you want to be the best in the world at one thing, you do need to go all in on that one thing. But if you want to be an always ready athlete, always ready for anything that life is going to throw at you and that's important to us, because If your daughter asks you to run a Spartan next week, we want you to be ready it's not something you're gonna say no to because you're not trained up or if that or if that buddy calls again to pack out that bowl. We want you to be ready, not say say no because you're not in shape, but to answer the question about how we balance that. We we we make sure we never miss those primary strength days.
Speaker 2:And so Especially Americans now are so Diverse in their training schedules and their training weeks, and we were just talking to the, the Ranger Regiment, about this last month and we got out to see them and learn a lot from them in Georgia, and that was kind of their question was you know, we're, we're here one day, we're not here one day, we're traveling. Sometimes we have a gym, sometimes we don't in. Their question was how do I really make sure I don't lose that strength? Because they have the endurance side very well covered with all the running that they do, and Mountain tough has been looking at that for years and the answer is relatively simple now to us and it's you can't miss those.
Speaker 2:You can't miss those foundational strength days, no matter what your week looks like. So Like if, if your week is crazy, you you still need to make sure you don't miss your deadlift, bench, squat day, because you can maintain a lot of strength with minimal gear and bodyweight workouts, but you can't add strength without that heavy load and that muscle adaptation. And so when people have weird schedules now we just say, well, that's fine, you can do a minimal gear workout on on Monday and Friday. But before you leave for this trip, make sure you get that Deadlift and squat and bench done, because if you don't add that heavy load then you're not going to increase that strength. But in our programming that's usually set up for you and structured for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really helpful. Well, it's also interesting too. I noticed a lot of the. Again, I was talking to Bill Rapier, you know, and and really the. I think what happened with them was they went to Afghanistan. They're in the mountains, so this Dev grew doing mountain operations and then I think he was saying at some point they realized like whatever we did for fitness and all the high cardio, like that wasn't cutting it in the mountains. And I think he's out of Salt Lake, but you know Mark Twight, they connected with him and did a bunch of training.
Speaker 1:So I've looked into some of that and it seems like more of that is making its way in. It's a little cross-fitty In the sense of like we're not doing like. You know, the problem with a lot of the powerlifting I found was, you know, it's like okay, you can do like three sets of three across like an hour and a half, but once you start, once you start putting in like even kettlebells and Farmers carries and stuff like that, you get to the end of the workout and you're like, yeah, I know it was a good workout, because I kind of feel like puking and I've felt that way for a little while now. So it seems like you're seeing more of that Integrated and it's an interesting interplay too. Like you guys have had a lot of conversations, you had a lot of interplay with the you know, the special forces type communities. I'm curious, like, as you talk to those guys, like what about it inspires you, you know, passion-wise, what are you? What are you pulling away from these guys?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really amazing because we went after the backcountry hunter specifically and Without us knowing it, those first several years in mount tuff's history, some special operations guys started picking up our programming and doing it, and they were doing it for for a while without us ever knowing about it, and we were and we still continue to, you know focus very much on on the backcountry hunter and what happened is those communities eventually contacted us and said you know, hey, we've been doing mount and tuff for the last year or so.
Speaker 2:We love it, and this is the reason why we love it and most often what they would say is that they're they have the best Trainers in the world at their fingertips in a lot of these communities and they have amazing coaches, amazing facilities and Unlimited resources sometimes for training, coaching, recovery.
Speaker 2:But what I got as the most common answer was that they oftentimes felt like they were getting trained like a D1 football player and the D1 football player coaching is Great, but it wasn't.
Speaker 2:It wasn't transferring over to the backcountry objectives that they wanted to always make sure that they were ready for, and and so Normally it was always organic that they would see one of our mount and tuff ads on Social media and they would notice that we focus on the backcountry. They would start dabbling in what we do and then a lot of them stuck with it, which has been, which has been really cool. And you know, we've learned. We've learned a lot from that experience in terms of how we can Help serve those individuals, and we have. We've definitely done that in the last couple years because some of those original groups that found us organically they they would say I know you're making this for the backcountry hunter, but the military does have some slightly different skill requirements and so, based on their feedback, we've built military specific programming and so that you'll see some of that in our app as well, our military specific Pre-deployment programs, which is a hybrid of what we were doing for the hunter and then incorporating their feedback.
Speaker 1:One of the things, too it makes me think of. We talked to a lot of guys about the issue of masculinity and especially young guys. I'll talk with them. You know, a lot of times you hear things like you know, I want to be a more confident man and one of the things I tell them is like we have to actually be competent at things, and Physically is so important.
Speaker 1:On this, I found myself in this way too, where it's like if you're being a slug and you don't have any fitness goals or you know you haven't done anything different for a long time, it really is a, I think, a feature, not a bog of masculinity, where men have to continually be Proving themselves and working on something and improving.
Speaker 1:But but I've noticed too, it's like as you hit those goals, that's where you actually get the confidence from Right, and it could be a lot of times I've found it's in kind of adjacent categories. Like, okay, one guy might say, well, what is my powerlifting? Or what is this endurance event I signed up for? What does that have to do with my job? But then you'll find, if guys do that in the fitness category, we really are whole people. So you go back into the world and it's like, wow, I'm, I'm more confident in all these other areas. So I'm curious for you personally, as you continue to. You know, as a company, grow, achieve new goals, work on new things every year how has this mountain tough? How is it shaped? Who you are as a man?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really awesome question because it with entrepreneurship, it definitely is this we're always learning in adapting and changing, and so we are big believers on you can't fail if you're learning, and so we like to take big risks and if we fail, that's okay, as long as we learn from it. And that has been amazing, but it definitely has. I Think all entrepreneurs probably get to where their Successful business isn't the exact business as their original vision and Then you, you kind of have to reconcile that in your mind and and I'm going through a lot of that lately and I think that you know my original vision was to Never be in corporate America again and that meant you know no boring systems or meetings and and no days being stuck in the office all day, and so you know a huge part of my desire to start start mountain tough was to train and kind of push people to their limits on the gym floor, and that's what it was definitely for those first four or five years, and I loved that more than anything else To have a group of like six to 12 guys on our gym floor and being able to push them like further than they've ever been before. I got so much like that was so rewarding for me. And it's physical too, like there's no technology involved, it's just you with some awesome guys, and that's what I wanted. And then we continue to grow and grow.
Speaker 2:So now I'm trying to figure out what that means, because, because we've been successful, I'm in the office more and I'm on computers more and doing more stuff than ever before off the gym floor because we have so many amazing people around us now. And I actually don't know what the right answer is yet, because for a long time I said that when this happened which I kind of knew it would by that I mean we would grow large enough to have to have systems, and systems that I didn't like but knew were necessary I knew that that day was coming. I used to kind of joke around with my wife that, like, when that day came, it was probably time for me to start something else. And one of my advisors said you might want to balance that thought out with maybe it's time to grow up. Growing up could mean being mature enough to embrace those systems. Even though it's not super adrenaline pumping, to me, it might be the right thing, and I think there's validity on that side too, because Mount Tuff's huge goal is to change 100,000 lives, and we really are changing lives At Mount Tuff.
Speaker 2:We call it like a positive Trojan horse or a positive bait and switch, where most of our customers are signing up because they're going to Alaska to hunt sheep or they drew a Colorado elk tag and they drew that tag and they're like, oh, I gotta start training. I'm going to Mount Tuff, which is amazing and I love that. But we know that what is actually happening is they're about to become better fathers, they're about to feel better, they're about to sleep better, they're about to have this amazing season of training that makes them better employees, bosses, friends, parents. They're going to have more energy to hike with their kids and play with their kids. So the positive Trojan horse is this huge life change is about to happen.
Speaker 2:They thought it was about the Colorado elk tag, but it's really not. It's probably going to change the next 10 years of their life, or 20, or it could have generational ripple effects, and so we see those testimonials every single day. It's insane what doing hard things each day will do to your life. I mean people are overcoming cancer battles, alcoholism, depression, suicidal thoughts, and so the balance of doing the adrenaline pumping stuff that I used to do versus growing up to actually make sure we change those 100,000 lives. I quite haven't figured that out yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really is a tough balance. I mean, we've gone through the same things as businesses grow. I always talk about it among our guys. The wild west phase of startups is really fun, and especially when in the startup, you kind of do everything and you're involved in everything and that's what we love.
Speaker 1:And then there's this hard point where, as stuff grows, you have to train and develop other people, allow them to hold them accountable, but allow them to do their job, and then kind of step back and do a lot of the I call it just the kingly work of oversight and wise management. And yeah, it's interesting because through that process, what I've had to do, too, is the same. It's like, how do I keep maintaining the passion I still have enough of the things that really fire me up on a daily basis but also looking at that long-term impact in such a way that it's like, yeah, it's a crazy thing, right? It's like you do the thing, you get successful, you get chained to a desk and you're like, wait a minute, this is not the part I love.
Speaker 2:It's interesting.
Speaker 1:This is not so amazing.
Speaker 2:I think, it's crazy too, because it is kind of very connected to the DNA of Mount and Tuff. It's very connected to mental toughness.
Speaker 2:It's like so much of what you're doing and so much of what I'm doing is a game of just never quitting Big time, Like never quitting on the episodes you've done. Never quitting on what we've done is what has gotten us here, but it's not what really got us here. It's more than what got us here. It's how many lives these little touch points have touched. I mean every piece of content you've created and every piece of content that Mount and Tuff has created since the beginning, those lives that it has touched over those years. I mean, if we would have stopped, it's crazy to think about and I think, no matter what season we are in life, in business, in our leadership seat, in our job, so much of all this is about just don't quit, just one foot in front of the next and see what each day brings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so good. Last thing I want to ask you just about the podcast. I want to point people to that. Of course we'll have links for that in the show notes as well. That's been really encouraging. You've got to talk to a lot of cool people because you think about the value of getting all these conversations before your audience, your listeners, your customers? I guess what stands out is why that conversation piece is so helpful in shaping men and women who might participate in the program.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when we started the Mount and Tuff podcast, we looked at it from a perspective of there's thousands of excellent hunting podcasts and there's thousands of excellent fitness podcasts and we didn't want to enter any of those competitive landscapes because of that. But we knew that there were very little mindset podcasts in the niche that we wanted to go after and there are a lot of self-improvement type mindset podcasts, but when we looked at it there were very few that were looking at the best of the best in what their actual mindset tactics looked like. And so that's what we went after. Was what if we interviewed some of the most inspiring folks in the world specifically on how their mind operates, so how they overcome obstacles, how they overcome adversity, how they win Olympics, how they win championships, and so that's what we've done and it's been the coolest thing ever. I mean, it has been a highlight of my life in those long-form conversations. It does do exactly kind of what we talked about earlier in the conversation of the bigger. The more tools you can put in that toolbox of mental fitness tricks and tips, the better, because every day a different tool is going to get the job done more effectively and every single one of those episodes gives, because they're long-form conversations gives you, or the listeners or the mountain tough community, one more tool to add to that box, and it might not apply to you, but it might be something that you pull out a year from now in a really nasty situation.
Speaker 2:And that's what's happened to me. Is there have been points that people have told me that in the middle of an adverse situation I just go to now unintentionally. So I remember Matt Fraser said that the way he was getting through some of the hardest CrossFit games workouts ever put in front of him before is he has this mindset tactic that no matter how hard a workout is, no matter how bad you're dying, no matter how bad it hurts, if you can get your mind to think about how quick you're going to recover when it's done. So the hardest physical thing you've ever done in your life. Two minutes afterwards you feel about 90%. Five minutes afterwards you feel about 95%. And when I heard that, I've applied that 10 times since I've heard that and with the Mountain Tough Podcasts we're just trying to get as many of those tips out on the table as possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so helpful. Definitely, like I said, encourage people to check that out. For listeners who are interested in participating in the program, best thing go to the website, sign up there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just mountentuffcom. And everyone who starts Mountain Tough starts on a 14-day free trial. So start your trial and that gives you two weeks to try some programs. Get on a program, check out the mindset and the spiritual content before it'll ask you to be a monthly or an annual subscriber.
Speaker 1:Awesome, awesome. Well, we'll definitely provide links for that in the show notes. Again, encourage people to check that out. Podcastandmountaintoughcom. Dustin, once again, thank you so much for joining me on this episode of the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you, really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thanks again for listening to this episode of the Hard Men Podcast and special shout out to our Patreon supporters. If you're not yet a Patreon supporter, you can join today for as little as $5 a month, and that definitely helps keep this work going. We are glad to partner with you for content that builds a new Christendom and reclaims biblical masculinity. At the same time, you can check the show notes for the link to become a Patreon supporter of the Hard Men Podcast today. Stay frosty, fight the good fight. Act like men.