Athletic Recovery & Performance Podcast

Clive Brewer-Head of Performance Columbus Crew- You can't be a scientist unless you have been a subject

June 16, 2020 Anthony Kjenstad Season 1 Episode 5
Athletic Recovery & Performance Podcast
Clive Brewer-Head of Performance Columbus Crew- You can't be a scientist unless you have been a subject
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Athletic Recovery & Performance Podcast
Clive Brewer-Head of Performance Columbus Crew- You can't be a scientist unless you have been a subject
Jun 16, 2020 Season 1 Episode 5
Anthony Kjenstad

🎧 New podcast episode In this podcast I get to sit down with a good friend Clive Brewer.  Clive is Head of Performance with the Columbus Crew and was previously Asst. Head of Performance with the Toronto Blue Jays. Clive also has worked with Wimbledon for the the last 20 years.

What does It take to run a high performance team, how did he get here and what does a optimal sports scientist look like In the future?  These are all questions I tackle with Clive and he has some great guidance.

"Stay In your lane" Is not a concept Clive believes in. Progressing as a Head of Performance in elite sports you have to understand all aspects of the departments you work with to maximize the performance of the team.

I truly enjoyed this conversation and learned both professionally and personally in this conversation.

To learn more about Clive please follow him on his social media links and obviously follow the success of the Columbus Crew as they depart on their season In July!

Twitter https://twitter.com/clivesportsandc?lang=en
Clive book https://www.amazon.com/Clive-Brewer/e/B01NBEK8XY%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share
Columbus Crew https://www.instagram.com/columbuscrewsc/tagged/

Please find Anthony Kjenstad @
Email:  [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/athleticrecoveryandperformance/notifications/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/fireflyrecovery
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fireflyrecovery/
Website: https://recoveryfirefly.com/

Show Notes Transcript

🎧 New podcast episode In this podcast I get to sit down with a good friend Clive Brewer.  Clive is Head of Performance with the Columbus Crew and was previously Asst. Head of Performance with the Toronto Blue Jays. Clive also has worked with Wimbledon for the the last 20 years.

What does It take to run a high performance team, how did he get here and what does a optimal sports scientist look like In the future?  These are all questions I tackle with Clive and he has some great guidance.

"Stay In your lane" Is not a concept Clive believes in. Progressing as a Head of Performance in elite sports you have to understand all aspects of the departments you work with to maximize the performance of the team.

I truly enjoyed this conversation and learned both professionally and personally in this conversation.

To learn more about Clive please follow him on his social media links and obviously follow the success of the Columbus Crew as they depart on their season In July!

Twitter https://twitter.com/clivesportsandc?lang=en
Clive book https://www.amazon.com/Clive-Brewer/e/B01NBEK8XY%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share
Columbus Crew https://www.instagram.com/columbuscrewsc/tagged/

Please find Anthony Kjenstad @
Email:  [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/athleticrecoveryandperformance/notifications/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/fireflyrecovery
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fireflyrecovery/
Website: https://recoveryfirefly.com/

Anthony Kjenstad :

Hello, my name is Anthony Kjenstad and welcome to the athletic recovery and performance podcast. In this podcast you'll follow my journey of understanding the science be hind recovery and performance and the technologies that help us get there. I will be interviewing athletes and the behind the scenes professionals that help these athletes reach optimal performance and recovery. Hello podcasters thanks for joining another episode. In this episode, I get to speak with Clive Brewer, the director of High performance for the Columbus Crew, which is a new position for him. He was previously the assistant director of high performance for the Toronto BlueJays has a unique perspective on the world of performance as he is literally worked all over the world in performance with professional rugby, Wimbledon tennis, track and field, Major League Baseball and now with the MLS. We talk about concepts like, "staying in your lane" and how that can be detrimental to progress in the training room. I also get to pick his brain on my own personal journey of who does recovery live within the training room. I hope you enjoyed the podcast and again looking forward to all your comments and suggestions. Thanks! For my community, go ahead and introduce yourself.

Clive Brewer :

I'm Clive Brewer. I am the director of high performance with the Columbus Crew team in Major League Soccer.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Great, well, thanks for jumping on Clive. So, um, I got into this journey about three years ago, and I really didn't know what director of performance was. And I kind of figured you were the big boss. And I knew that but I didn't know the background of what it took to be in to be you. So I actually wantched your 2016 North American human performance summit lecture(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoerdHRHiR0) and I got a real good perspective, a better perspective anyways, about how you have to multi-task I mean, you almost sounded like a CEO of a of a business or an entrepreneur as opposed to a director of performance. So go ahead and from your perspective, define what Director of performance entails

Clive Brewer :

I mean, I don't like to think of myself as a CEO or a businessman, I usually kind of describe myself more as the conductor of the orchestra. You know, so if, or maybe even a cause a different way of looking at it, you know, if you want to every everybody looks at the car, right? That's the athletes as the players, that's the thing everyone wants to see. Right? And the car as you know, the car has an engine and a driver, the drivers typically the head coach, you know, turns the wheel, changes direction, makes that makes the car speed up, go slow. So the fancy car, there's a driver making the car move. And then under the under the hood, there's the there's the engine, you know, and this is the unseen work that people don't see. And, and largely, you know, my job is to fine tune the engine. I guess and keep the components working. So to go back to the analogy of the conductor, and I don't know anything about music, but you know, if you if you put the bet the best violinist with the best cello is with the best bass players etc. You're not necessarily going to produce the best music unless you've got someone in the front who's who's letting them know when to play and how to play and how loud to play and at what time to play and that sort of stuff. And I guess that's really my role within a sports team. So anything that's not related to the sports coach yourself, you know, the technical stuff comes into me. So typically physical preparation, sports medicine, nutrition, mental performance, those kind of things.

Anthony Kjenstad :

You know, from a background perspective, I think people like yourself have come from multiple backgrounds. What is the director of performance look like? 5-10 years from now is it a Is it a combination, athletic trainers, physical therapists, strength and conditioning coach, entrepreneur. I mean, it seems like you're doing so many different things. What if you're recruiting or developing a program for the next, you know, the next wave of people that are gonna follow you? What do you think would optimize your position moving forward?.

Clive Brewer :

I'm not sure that I think one of the things you do have to have come is you have to come through the trenches. You have to have had a profession within you know, within you know, you name to know you know, a number of them their athletic trainer, physiotherapy, you know, physical therapist, strength and conditioning coach, sports scientist, nutritionist, mostly my old boss at the Toronto Blue Jays when I was there, the VP of high performance. Angus Mumford was a mental performance coach and he has an unbelievable talent for developing culture and EQ and bringing people together and getting them to work as a team. So, um, you know, I, I honestly, I don't think there's a, there is an ideal background, if that makes sense. I'm not sure you prepare for it. But I think to put yourself in the position of, you know, where you want to be able to manage all of those aspects and bring them all together. You need to you need to be able to understand what, what makes things work on the ground, and you need to have an appreciation of all of those facets of work and how they come together and when they come together really well. So that you can you can bring that through but you know, I wouldn't necessarily say that anyone person needs to have, you know, a particular You know, I think athletic trainers could make a great performance director in the same way as straining conditioning coaches could and sport scientists good nutrition, you know, it's anyone can come from any of those background

Anthony Kjenstad :

You talk about going through the trenches as a director of performance. Talk to me about the fact that you haven't went through the trenches in some of these spaces. You've ended up you started in rugby, but then you went to baseball, you really had no idea about baseball now you're in soccer is, is the transition been harder in what you're doing from baseball, or from rugby into the baseball culture or from baseball back into a culture like soccer?

Clive Brewer :

Um, I think it's, I mean, the one thing about my career is it's I mean, all I would say I, you know, came from rugby or whatever, but, you know, I've been really lucky I, you know, I need 20 Wimbledon tennis tournaments and, you know, I've worked in track and field athletics. When I was in sports when I was in this sport skaaland as a nationally for athlete, and I worked across probably 30 or so. You know, they gave me a good a pretty grounding for you know the ability to analyze what's required from a sport. The only way you ever really learn the culture of the sport is to embed yourself in it you know you can get an idea from the outside but until you're really in it and and working with the practitioners as you really begin to understand the the instrument the little nuances and how the locker rooms are different and the traditions of the sport are different and different roles that the coaches or managers or etc play. So, I've always been lucky in the fact of a number of opportunities enabled me to to make that transition and so doing it full time to come from from the UK where the last role over there full time was was in rugby into into baseball. The reason I The reason I made that jump was because it was the one move that was going to take me completely outside my comfort zone. You know, I was I mean prior to coming to the Blue Jays I'd seen a couple of Kevin Costner movies and a charlie sheen. And that was kind of my, you know, my introduction to baseball really, I didn't know anything about it. So. So coming into that there was a, you know, there's a big need for me to spend a lot of time try and seek out people that would help my transition through. I was lucky at some tremendous colleagues of the Blue Jays and they brought in an advisor called called Eric wedge, who is steeped in the history of the game. And, you know, has been a major league manager and has a phenomenal character and he was he was awesome for me in terms of, you know, making me see the game in a way a manager would see the game so I could better understand how to communicate what we were looking for how decisions are made, you know, that kind of stuff. So it's, it's more about trying to understand, you know, come back into soccer again. The you know, the environment is very different the head coach is responsible the manager is responsible for you know everything around the players in the environment and it's my you know, it's my role to come in and, and help and support that that process with him. In a much smaller team a baseball organization is you know, 300 players there were 52 staff in the performance department. There's a number of coaches, there's nine we had nine different teams in our in our minor league structure. So the communication pathway, the channel, the decision making tree was a lot more involved. There's a lot more there's a lot more wheels to grease. Now in Major League Soccer is 25 players, it's our staff and we're together every day so it's a very different you know, it's a face to face communication, very direct relationship. It's you know, so the the scale of things is very different. And it's, you know, it's it's my job to find to come in and say, how does the you know, the head coach or the gaffer, as we call them in soccer? You know, how does that how does the gaffer want the rhythm of the club and the rhythm of the team to be and then to help and support, you know, to bring my knowledge and expertise to help drive that rhythm.

Anthony Kjenstad :

When you were talking about the Blue Jays, you talked about coming from Europe and then into the US system, where you know, athletic trainers did athletic trainer things and strength and conditioning did strength and conditioning things now that it's your, your show where the what what early changes are you making with with your group now and you know, one of the things that hit me when I was walking to your discussion was that you can't come in and change everything. You got to look at 30% of the things that need change. What are your early focuses with the crew today? And what do you see this growing into in three, four to five years to see clubs Then we're having minor league clubs where they're, you know, building kind of like the European system in soccer. Do you see that happening in the MLS?

Clive Brewer :

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's one of the things that really excited me about the opportunity to come to Columbus was you know, first first and foremost for any organization takes great people. And so the the ownership group that took over Columbus have got a great vision for the future. You know, they want to put put Columbus Crew at the center of the community in Columbus, it's a vibrant city and they wanted a vibe in club to reflect that. So that you know, they got a brand new stadium and also a brand new Performance Center being built and so around that is a structure where you got to performance and the way you need that feeder system, you know, you need that feeder system of so a reserve grade team and then a full time Academy process to come through and, and that's definitely the vision of the club. And the ownership in the front office is sold me on that as the exciting opportunity to grow and develop and build something for the future. And, you know, in the GM, the technical director, we're, you know, we have some real enthusiastic but experienced knowledgeable people who know how to win. And a report the head coaches is a guy that's, you know, he, he's won the MLS Cup before, you know, he has a track record of it. He's a winner as a coach, and when you've got people who know how to win and know how to do things, then you have the opportunity to instruction moving forward. So that that really gives you know that's the vision and the structure and my role is to bring in you know, to bring on board the support service around that to deliver that player development process and deliver players who are durable and athletically able to athletically perform well enough. week in week out to achieve the winning performances of a coach once. So, you know, when you go and see when you go into any scenario, there are things that, you know, you're going to look at it and say, Well, you know, what needs changing? I think, you know, I've learned from enough mistakes in the past. It's about where do you Where do you focus your mental and physical energy? You know? I think the, the, and I will answer your bit about the athletic trainer strength coach in a minute, but the the thing in terms of in terms of where you put your emphasis, I, you know, I think the British approach sometimes is a lot more about you would you would look at 70% That's right, 30% that, you know, you want to change so you put all your effort into the 30%. That requires changing. And the reason for that was, is typically the fact that professional sport is fairly cutthroat if you can't make change and if you can't influence things Quickly, you don't get you don't get the opportunity for long, you know, in in Premier League Soccer, you know, I think the the average duration of a manager being post is probably less than 18 months, you know, so you've got to be able to, to put the energy into the, in the effort where the change needs required because things are good, good. You know, when I, when I came into the Blue Jays, for example, the staff there and and they did a very stable staff and a very structured staff that hadn't changed for a long time. And putting putting, you know, if you put 100% of effort into the things that needed to change there, it probably wouldn't have worked because, you know, they had to be ready for that change, you know. So, and again, this is where this is where Angus and his theory and were absolutely vital in helping me understand that and understand the culture of the sport of you know, even America because coming to a different country, different you know, we have Europe Different ways of doing things and his his guidance Mark Shapiro, the President, who's a phenomenal individual, and their guidance in terms of what is an acceptable rate of change for people and where should we focus our efforts? And when when are we ready for that change was invaluable for me in terms of in terms of learning that approach. But the biggest The biggest difference I found fundamentally, I think, when I came here was the phrase stay in your lane, you know, and that that, for me represented a fundamentally different approach, one that I hadn't come across before because you know, I'd always viewed if you stay in your lane, you get overtaken so I always fostered cultures beforehand where you encouraged professionals to step into other environments and challenge each other and make each other better. I became a far better strength and conditioning coach when I really learned to look at the human body in the way of your therapist does. And also to communicate learn from the physiotherapist because it meant that we could start to put things, you know, we could start to develop exercises developed programs together that made the players better. I was a much better sports scientist and I was taught this Luckily, early on in my career, my professor said to me, You can't be a scientist until you've been a subject to understand things, you know, so for me, I've always been about getting people to explore, explore the professionals around them. And the biggest data set that we've got is the knowledge and expertise of our professionals, you know, so what we need to be able to explore that exploit it and to be able to have people who are going to challenge us and ask that ask the Why are we doing this and how do we do it? So I was very used to the environment whereas you know, and again, I don't want I played the please don't think this is stereotyping but I think a lot of environments you come across are very Like trainers do sports medicine and they don't do anything else and straining conditioning coaches do strengthing auditioning and you don't see them outside the weight room. And there's forcefield codes, sports coaches do the on field stuff. And that was the environment was alien to me because ultimately if we're all about making the plays better, and then we sit down and we put the players at the center of discussion rather than saying, okay, what's my knowledge base, and I'm only going to focus on that. If you get that if you get the knowledge bases, driving the discussion, it takes things in a different direction. If I give let me give you an example. And be fed up with me soon but, you know, it's it worked really well for me, and I probably stole it from someone so. But if you look at hurdling in track and field, you know, if you ask a physiologist how to improve someone's hurdling ability, they'll tell you it's a increase the speed between hurdles, if you ask a bio mechanist, they'll tell you to increase the rate of that Force takeoff or the angle to takeoff. And if you ask the psychologists, they'll tell you to visualize the center of mass going over the hurdle at a lower height. Whereas the reality is if you speed increase the speed between the hurdles, you are going to necessarily have to decrease the takeoff force. Because to increase the takeoff force, you need to decrease the velocity going into the takeoff stride. So, if you do if you take either of those two approaches, you interfere with the other two and if you take either of those two approaches, you don't change either center of mass going over the hurdle. So, you know, the key thing for me is an interdisciplinary guy is I wouldn't take any of those disciplines what I do is sit with a coach and say, What makes this hurdle better? And if we understand what makes the hurdle better if he says is we need to increase the force of takeoff and I'm going to go Okay, we're gonna buy mechanist in and we're getting strength coaching to do just that. If it's no is speed between the hurdle is not enough. Okay, we're going The world Okay, how do we increase that speed between hurdle? Is it a technical thing? Or is it a physical thing? What's the limitation there and we addressed that. So it's it's very much put the put the put the code in the player or the coach and the athlete at the center of the process and then bring in the respective discipline knowledge around the fact that one discipline is not going to solve the problem, you know, once we can once we can take you know, once we can take multiple perspectives of this and bring into a case of plan, then we're going to be much better off.

Anthony Kjenstad :

So so in the theory or in the spirit of staying in your lane, being a vendor, being a salesperson to you and, and trying to get access you one of the things and selling into the recovery space. One of the things I'm really challenged with and this is a question for me, and maybe not permitted is where is the record moving? Who where does recovery live because in your world where you have a performance director like yourself and an athletic trainer in strength and conditioning and strong personality, In a strong entrepreneurial spirit of, of the things that you just said, it's very easy to get technology, whether it's good or bad to the right person. But if I go into another team and they don't have you were in your mind is recovered, because everybody's talking about recovery. Everybody thinks it's important. Maybe everybody hasn't defined it exactly in nutrition, sleep blood flow. excetera. But, but where does recovery live in your mind? In the training room, if everybody's staying in their lane?

Clive Brewer :

Yeah. And again, I think that's a it's a really interesting question in the same way as in the say, to my mind, it's like who owns training, right? Because the purpose of training is to enhance the product on the field, but we do some training on the field, or the ice or the, you know, whatever we call it, right pitch. There's a funny story about I came here the first time I came into it, Well, I started talking about an artificial pitch, and which actually meant a turf field to translate, but he goes as late to American all the time. So I spent I spent a lot of time talking about this artificial pitch and they of course, the baseball guys thought I was talking about some form of mechanical throwing device. So, so yeah, I try and avoid the term pitch now but back in soccer, we can't so yeah, you know, the the product is on products on the pitch field ice court, you know, etc. So we train on that, but we also train in the weight room. So the strength conditioning coaches and training and the reality is No, they don't because, you know, in a lot of the preparation worked before you go in the strength room on the field is done in the training room. So you have like trainers own training? No, they don't, you know, so, and recoveries the opposite you know, the so for me, it's, it's a fundamental part of the training process is literally about, you know, you have to stress the body. enough that it's positive If stress and not distress, and then you you go through a recovery process to enable it to get better every time. No, because the body's that clever self learning organism. So I really I often struggle with that that question in terms of so where does it sit? The answer is it's, it's it sits everywhere. You know, my nutritionist is an expert in recovery in the same way as there are some modalities that you know, that belong well in the training room. And other modalities that are maybe more active that belong in the strength room. And there are some that actually just belong in the athletes bedroom, the most fundamental of which is sleep. You know, sleep is the most fundamental recovery going. So if we can find ways of helping athletes sleep better, then who owns that and, you know, it's so, for me, it's a much more targeted thing about trying to understand where this particular who was Engage, you know, for you who will engage the athlete with this technology, you know, and if it's going to be better introduced through, it tends to be more passive for example, it might be a treatment room thing. It tends to be more active, it might be a weight room thing. That may be the avenue to go down if there isn't if there isn't a, you know, a central point who can direct it internally?

Anthony Kjenstad :

Yep. No, I appreciate your perspective. Yeah, but I

Clive Brewer :

don't again, I don't necessarily subscribe to any person owns it. It's more about who is going to best engage the athlete with it.

Anthony Kjenstad :

So so let's shift to the new season. I just saw the new season was released. You guys are going to do a tournament. It's over about a 30 day. session. It looks like you're going to play about 2016 games. What are your biggest concerns coming off of you know the virus COVID virus and jumping into a war like that. Where you may be playing more back to back games or more sessions? What What things? Are you preparing for now that you're most concerned about with these athletes? Putting up again?

Clive Brewer :

Yeah, I think first and foremost is probably say we're excited by I think, you know, everyone wants to play right? the you know, the unfortunate onset of COVID is slow down, what was it what was a great start to the year for us and, you know, the guy, the guys are players, they want to play the coaches want to coach, we want to we want to make athletes better. So, you know, I think fundamentally, everyone's excited that we can get going again in this fashion. And, you know, a lot of work has been done by by Major League, soccer and others to actually make this happen and give us this opportunity. So it's exciting. It's also unprecedented, you know, and that's the, that's the good thing about this is the is the fact that, you know, the people are going to come back from this and those that take the most innovative approaches to solving the problems we're going to face Because we've just spent a period of time learning how to coach athletes remotely, monitor athletes remotely learning how to stay on top of, you know, their their development in a situation where they're training from home and coached in a way that we haven't done before. And so now coming into that there's the transition about how do we go from having worked on individual programs with players where we can keep them fit, but we can't keep them soccer fit, the demands of the game are only ever going to be replicated by playing the game. And so, you know, we can wait we could do running, we could do sprinting with them, and, you know, they'll get to the point where we've been able to do individual practice where, you know, they can run with the ball, dribble the ball, they can be at our facility and be supervised doing it in individual sessions. So we can get them fit but but it's still not soccer, you know. And then we did small group work with them where the players are spaced out around a few But they can pass the ball to each other. But again, they're not getting that acceleration, deceleration and not spend a lot of time in the crouch position. They're not getting the spatial awareness and then the sudden law, there's a space there, I'm going to I'm going to accelerate into it. decelerate rapidly collisions from tackles, etc. So we're excited we just enter in. We've been approved now to go to full training. And so, you know, we're implementing the process for that and we will enter full training very shortly. And means now we can begin to start preparing the players but is a short lead in for that normally, normally a preseason phases, you know, four weeks or so before your first game. We got just over three, I think before our first game will be played. And then we'll be into competitive games, which are back to back normally a preseason phases, six weeks between the start of the preseason and your first competitive game of the year. So we're kind of coming In that way, half, and whether they're going to competent, competent, competitive games, which are four days apart, so there's not going to be a lot of recovery time in between and training time in between. So we, you know, it's the challenge for us is how do we build up our chronic training load, sufficient to protect the players and enable us to produce a very high quality product when we're in tournament? And then from there, how do we shortcut the recovery process sufficiently enough from the heat of Orlando, from the humidity of Orlando from the stress of playing competitive 90 minute games, and recover players enough in four days to do that for you know, for, you know, a number of weeks, so that's very much on our mind at the minute. It's about, you know, it's about you know, working with the head coach now to put together that plan that enables us to build

Anthony Kjenstad :

does having athletes in one facility in one area allow you to monitor the things like sleep nutrition a little better, and you'll be able to control those variables a little better, because you'll have complete access to them but there won't be as much going out on the town or traveling from place to place do you think you'll be able to to effectively reduce recovery attempts? Because you'll have a better handle on on those type of things?

Clive Brewer :

Yeah, I think it very much varies with the individual and you know, it depends on different sports as well. You know, you get to soccer players are not used to being away from home for long periods of time, they used to sleeping in their own beds. Baseball players are used to being on the road for the entirety of you know, 190 days. So, you know, sometimes just just actually not being in your own bed is, you know, they that can that can that can get in the way of recovery a little bit. You know, the athletes don't don't sleep as well or adapt as well. So The answer is yes and no. Or it depends. And that's a sad answer that nobody wants to hear. But that's the that's the reality things. I mean, we use, we use sleep sensors to monitor the athletes sleep patterns. And the reason we do that is we want to understand, you know, when they sleep well what are they doing so that we can help them enhance that, you know, when they don't sleep so well? What are they doing so that we can reduce that and help them create you know, proper sleep hygiene and routines and that kind of thing. So that we do that anyway, regardless of where we are. In between being able to control them in us in a hotel is is, you know, we have a we have a fantastic nutritionist who does a great job of working with the players to say okay, what you know, what type of diet and what type of menus and what type of dishes work really well for you. plays a home, they can cook the things with under the guides nutritionist that they want to eat. So, whereas when you're in a hotel, you're not cooking for yourself, you are eating the, the menu and no matter how much variety we try and put on that it's still not view cooking your own food. You know if that makes sense. So, but there's, there's pros and cons in it. And, you know, we'll, it'll be it'll be an interesting environment for us for a prolonged period of time. And I mean, the key thing is, it will be exciting because we'll be back playing game training full time and back together in the squat. And, you know, the teams that the teams that adapt best to that challenge the teams that will come out and do really well in it.

Anthony Kjenstad :

I appreciate that. I can see your I'm losing you a little bit. You're You're It's been a long day for me. I have one, one additional question for him that I'll let you go. So a lot of my community that I'm trying to develop and kind of pivot after the success I've had in the elite, you know, mmm Be NHL community. MLS community with Firefly is on these elite marathoners, triathlete, OCR athletes. So I mean them as prosumers You know, they're they're, they're elite athletes performing at a high level, but they're not professional. Give them top three hacks, you know, if they had your ear for a minute and, and a beer and cut you in a bar, you know, what are the top three hacks you have for them? Or, or if that one isn't strike your fancy, you know, a parent, you're sitting down with a parent who's got, you know, you've been to the US now for a while you see how crazy we are about sports. We're doing specialization and you know, we're taking our kids to weekend tournaments where they're playing eight nine games and in a period of 48 hours, give you knowing what you know, now what are what are some of the top two three things that they can do to you know, themselves like you were roughly cool printing room.

Clive Brewer :

You actually broke up right in the middle of the first question. So I didn't I didn't get much of it you give me that. Give me the first question again and I'll try and answer.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Yeah, you know, I kind of switching gears with selling into the pro delete a space. I'm really doing a lot with marathoners, OCR athletes, triathletes, and I think there's a really misunder there's a lot of people getting there on talent alone, and they're not really monitoring sleep, nutrition, recovery, they all talk about it, but you know, recovery in most conversations is foam rolling, I stretch out. So you know, them the community top three hacks. If they got you in a pub and they got your ear for three, you know, two, three minutes, what are the three things they can focus on to take to the next level?

Clive Brewer :

Okay, cool. Yeah. Okay, so the one the I'll answer both questions. For you, in terms of in terms of recovery for your, you know, your, your weekend warriors or your very, very serious athletes who are not professional, if that makes sense, I think they spent they spent an awful lot of time on the, you know, the technology and the equipment in terms of the training and stuff. But for me, performance equals fitness minus for T, right? And so what you need to do is to maximize your fitness and minimize your fatigue in order to maximize your your performance opportunities. So, what are the things that you can do following training around and in this mistake, you know, I've probably been guilty of making this mistake early on in the career where I didn't pay enough attention to nutrition, for example, because it was all about like the athletes can eat what they want, as long as they're training hard. The problem is with that approach is that you, you don't put diesel into a Ferrari You know, the fuel doesn't work well. So you need to find the right. You need to find the right ways of fueling the work that you want to do. So nutrition is is vitally important. And, and the other thing is, is, you know, I you also won't find me saying that a keto diet is better or vegetarian diet is better or this diet is better The answer is, is there's going to be something athletes like eating and the structure that suits their body and some things that don't suit their body. So, you know, working with working with experts around the area of nutrition is massively important. And, you know, the same way to find things that you can fit into your daily routine. And one of the things that that, you know, you know, I love about the Firefly, having been involved in some research on it earlier on is is that it's a passive device. It doesn't require you to do anything you can carry on with your, your normal life or your normal sitting, or whatever it is, and you You put it on and yeah, it's significantly enhancing that blood flow around the body. So we know it's reducing inflammation, we know it's increasing blood flow, and all the benefits that increase blood flow and circulation bring. So for those for those things and those opportunities, I think, you know, for things that you can integrate easily the work you do around it. And one of the things I, you know, I discovered early in my career on track and field working with funded athletes who were full time versus athletes who weren't funded, but were operating on the same level of performance. The difference was how much recovery could those players those athletes get the amount of training time was typically the same. One tended to train before and after work and the others tended to train them and then spend the rest of the day recovering from it. So it's about how can you get those those forms of recovery that would that would fit into you know, out of the attic and you get increased blood flow, etc. to train in the donation upon all the things that you need to do, as well on the daily basis, please important that recovery isn't ignored. You know? And for those for those parents who've got you know, potential world champions and I believe like in every elementary school there's a there's a potential World Champion there. You know, it's more about how do we make sure they get the right opportunity to access developmentally appropriate coaching and developmentally appropriate expertise that will enable that you know, enable the diamond to be chipped away and structured into it into a jewel. The important thing for me around that is trying to understand them that I you know, I used to look at travel baseball and stuff and the number of games people played and I'm against high school kids were playing and pitching and delivering and stuff and and talking to people and these guys are playing very similar or doing very similar in instructions as to what the pros are doing. But the difference is, is behind every major league team, there's a staff of 14, helping them recover, treating them, making them better. You know, their job is full time dedicated to keeping these athletes on the field. Whereas within a high school there just isn't that kids just play, you know. And so, my advice is always make sure that you've got the right expertise that's helping you guide that athlete structure. But make sure that you're also spending sufficient time training and developing the physical qualities that enable you to go through the performance. Don't just go through the performance because I think if you're just doing that, then the incidents that we see of ACL reconstructions, or UCL reconstructions in baseball, for example, are just gonna carry on getting higher because people are doing the high velocity performance demands but haven't gotten the physical capabilities or the expertise to support recovery from those demands.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Yeah, it's almost like if you don't get a Tommy John's as a youth pitcher, then you're you didn't get that that badge of honor. Right. And what I think a lot of parents don't understand is if they would have shut the athlete down for the same amount of time it took them to recover from the surgery, they might have had the same outcome is kind of what I hear in that community anyways.

Clive Brewer :

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like every injury is, you know, every injury is unfortunate. And you know, a lot of those we you know, we invested a lot of time and technology and expertise in trying to make sure our pitchers didn't get put in a position where one of those is going to occur, you know, so I don't mean I never see as a badge of honor I see as a failure in a program. And so no injuries happening sport, we know that but but let's try and make sure that they don't, and particularly ones that are going to shut someone down for 14 months is that you know, that's that's bad for that development.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Well, Clive Hey, I appreciate your time. Congrats, you guys getting out on the field? Um, where can everybody reach you if they're trying to follow somebody like you? Or you? Or you? I know you're active on Twitter, I see you out there on Twitter all the time. Where else can everybody find you?

Clive Brewer :

I think Yeah, generally, you know, I, I kind of do. I mean, you say active on Twitter all the time. I don't think I've been on there for two weeks. But, you know, I'm on Twitter, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Facebook, I mean, those kind of things. And, you know, it's, I'm, I'm not one of those guys that I, I'm not a salesperson, I haven't got a product to sell, you know, and so if you want to follow me on there, or, you know, get in touch with me, those those kind of ways, then, you know, my product is about the players on the field and, you know, etc. And usually, that's more of a product of the staffs expertise around me than than the work I do. You know, I'm very lucky to be surrounded by a great bunch of staff who do a great job every day and you know, so My my role is just, it's just to help them get better down, the players get better. And so if that's that's the kind of stuff you'll see me so Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, I brew the simple.