Athletic Recovery & Performance Podcast

Founder and Chief Wellness Officer of Therabody Dr. Jason Wersland discusses their new App launch and CBD-TheraOne

August 03, 2020 Anthony Kjenstad Season 1 Episode 10
Athletic Recovery & Performance Podcast
Founder and Chief Wellness Officer of Therabody Dr. Jason Wersland discusses their new App launch and CBD-TheraOne
Chapters
Athletic Recovery & Performance Podcast
Founder and Chief Wellness Officer of Therabody Dr. Jason Wersland discusses their new App launch and CBD-TheraOne
Aug 03, 2020 Season 1 Episode 10
Anthony Kjenstad

🎧 New podcast episode #10
There are not many people as passionate about their products as I am and I think you're going to feel that with my next guest Dr. Jason Wersland,  Founder and Chief Wellness Officer of Therabody and inventor of the Theragun. In this podcast, Jason goes over his journey from building this technology specifically for himself to over a period of eight years and many iterations realizing he had built a product with many applications from post injury therapy to self care, and recovery. 


Theragun recently rebranded themselves as Therabody and Jason goes into the thought process around that decision. We discussed the new Apps created for the product and the additional educational products they have created:
Therabody University 

Lastly, we dive into the topic of their new CBD line-TheraOne and how they have differentiated themselves, yet again, in a confusing space, which I think will pull back the curtains on this often misunderstood product and open our eyes up to how we can integrate this as part of our daily habit for recovery and sleep.

Dr. Jason Wersland
Instagram Therabody: @therabody
Instagram Dr. Wersland: @drjasonwersland
Instagram Therabody University: @therabodyuniversity
Website: therabody.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/drjasonwersland?lang=en
Email: DJW@theragun.com
Therabody University: https://www.theragun.com/us/en-us/search?cgid=therabody-university
Thier app is also available HERE to download

Please find Anthony Kjenstad, Jake Wilks and Firefly™
Email:  Anthony@athleticrecovery.net
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/athleticrecoveryandperformance/notifications/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/fireflyrecovery
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fireflyrecovery/
Website: https://recoveryfirefly.com/


Show Notes Transcript

🎧 New podcast episode #10
There are not many people as passionate about their products as I am and I think you're going to feel that with my next guest Dr. Jason Wersland,  Founder and Chief Wellness Officer of Therabody and inventor of the Theragun. In this podcast, Jason goes over his journey from building this technology specifically for himself to over a period of eight years and many iterations realizing he had built a product with many applications from post injury therapy to self care, and recovery. 


Theragun recently rebranded themselves as Therabody and Jason goes into the thought process around that decision. We discussed the new Apps created for the product and the additional educational products they have created:
Therabody University 

Lastly, we dive into the topic of their new CBD line-TheraOne and how they have differentiated themselves, yet again, in a confusing space, which I think will pull back the curtains on this often misunderstood product and open our eyes up to how we can integrate this as part of our daily habit for recovery and sleep.

Dr. Jason Wersland
Instagram Therabody: @therabody
Instagram Dr. Wersland: @drjasonwersland
Instagram Therabody University: @therabodyuniversity
Website: therabody.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/drjasonwersland?lang=en
Email: DJW@theragun.com
Therabody University: https://www.theragun.com/us/en-us/search?cgid=therabody-university
Thier app is also available HERE to download

Please find Anthony Kjenstad, Jake Wilks and Firefly™
Email:  Anthony@athleticrecovery.net
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/athleticrecoveryandperformance/notifications/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/fireflyrecovery
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fireflyrecovery/
Website: https://recoveryfirefly.com/


Anthony Kjenstad :

Hello, my name is Anthony Kjenstad and welcome to the Athletic recovery and performance podcast. In this podcast, you'll follow my journey of understanding the science behind recovery, performance, and the technologies that help us get there. I will be interviewing athletes and the behind the scenes professionals that help these athletes reach optimal performance and recovery. Hello podcasters and thanks for jumping on another episode. There are not many people as passionate about their products as I am and I think you're going to feel that with my next guest Dr. Jason Wersland, CEO of Therabody and inventor of the Theragun. In this podcast, Jason goes over his journey from building this technology specifically for himself to over a period of eight years and many iterations realizing he had built a product with many applications from post injury therapy to self care, and recovery. Theragun recently rebranded themselves as Therabody and Jason goes into the thought process around that decision. We discussed the new Apps created for the product and the additional educational products they have created, like Therabody University to educate both consumers and practitioners to maximize the effectiveness of their product lines. Lastly, we dive into the topic of their new CBD line and how they have differentiated themselves, yet again, in a confusing space, which I think will pull back the curtains on this often misunderstood product and open our eyes up to how we can integrate this as part of our daily habit for recovery and sleep. I really enjoyed this podcast I hope you do as well look forward to getting your feedback. Well, hey man, thanks for jumping on we saw each other I think last time at the MLB winter meetings and connected some dots on maybe how we were connected and I've been following your journey since and, just wanted to connect with you now that I've got my own podcast and trying to fill some time with my days. growimg my business and for the community if you could go ahead and introduce yourself.

Dr. Jason Wersland :

I'm Dr. Jason Westland, the founder and creator of Theragun.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Awesome. So I'm starting with that walk me through your journey. You started as a sales rep actually, which was a little. I didn't know that about you and age 29 you changed from sales rep to Chiro, and you follow your dream. Maybe you had some mentors in your family or community that kind of swayed you that way. So walk me from that journey of Chiro at age 29 to now to you and Theragun and how you got here.

Dr. Jason Wersland :

Well, I like to say that I spent my 20s figuring out what I was going to do and I grew up! Once I once I came to school, in 2000, and the end of 2000. I moved to LA to go to chiropractic school. It took me a lot longer to finish chiropractic school than what was originally planned. It was a usually a three and a half to four year program, but the I was a little older and had kids was working at the same time going to school. It took me longer it took me almost seven years to do that. So in 2006, towards the end of 2000, in the middle of 2007 was when I was getting ready to graduate though my last year of school and which was there's an overlap my first year, having my own practice was when I had the motorcycle accident. So I was just splitting traffic, going to my old school, actually to take a physical therapy test and I a car cut me off in the freeway I was splitting traffic and I slammed into the side of this car going about 55 miles an hour and I sustained a lot of soft tissue damage in the my right side I had a nine millimeter disc bulge in my neck C-5, C-6 for those of you who understand that and it started to affect my index and middle finger, and my thumb I couldn't feel anything they were they wouldn't function, then atrophy started to come from my accident was in October of 2007, I started, I was going to see my chiropractic business partner at my practice, and he would treat me. So I would get treated for, you know, an hour sometimes, but maybe a little bit more. And then I would leave and I'd go home, and I would do the same thing that anyone else does. And, and that experience of leaving somewhere where I felt hope, like I was something was gonna happen, I was able to kind of fix myself, and going by myself in the car back to my house, by myself sitting in my house into a state of hopelessness, and powerlessness, I couldn't do anything and as a chiropractor, that drove me crazy. I think as a person, to my personality, where I was just sitting there, but it almost felt like I was going backwards it was like one step forward to the clinic and then two steps backwards and I didn't like that I wanted it to be the other way around. So I was looking for something that I could treat my myself, I didn't even know what it was, but I could treat myself in the hours where I wasn't being treated and as a Chiro and as a body worker, physios and different things, you understand that there's a difference between injury and pain and a lot of times, they're independent of each other and, and for me, I needed to deal with the pain so that when I got back to my practice, my business partner could deal with the injury. But if all I was doing is going to have him deal with the pain, then we're not getting anywhere. And I understood that as a Chiro so I started looking for something to treat myself in the hours where I wasn't being treated, so that when I was being treated, we could facilitate more treatment, more movement or dealing with with the injury. My brother is a chiropractor in Utah, and he'd been in a water skiing accident about two years prior to me, and he'd had a similar injury. And when I would fly home to see my kids, we would stay at his house because our kids were the same age and I'd see him treating himself. So we'd be out there with this traction device pulling on his neck and he used this vibration thing under his armpits and stuff, and I just thought he's crazy. Like, there you go. Chiro's doing their thing again so I go back to Utah. I have my injury, and I called my brother and I said, Dude, sorry, but what were you doing? Like what was that. And he basically explained to me that this thing that vibrated was called the Viper CA, so you probably know what they are Anthony, but a ViberCuff and I would take that thing about the size of a coke can with a adjustable speed on the bottom and I just put an eighth my armpit and the vibration would make the pain go away. It could, it would make me calm down. And when you have a nine millimeter disc bulge pushing on the nerve, it's, it's painful. The weight of a dime, can impede a nerve up to 60% and if you put that sort of pressure on a nerve, it's gonna be aggravated and there's a lot of pain associated with that. And I understand that now. Looking back on it, it was probably one of the biggest blessings I had as a therapist, because it gave me empathy. It helped me understand and when I'm working with a patient just worked on one the other day. It brings me back. I don't know how to say it, but it brings me back and I feel it. I feel their pain, I feel their hopelessness. I feel these questions in your mind of is this how it's going to be? Will I ever get better? Can I? What for me, it was like, Can I be able to throw a football to my son? Will I be able to hold my daughter's hand and swing around and like those are things that are real to me and I was scared about that. So to be able to feel empowered. That's what this thing started to provide for me. I realized that vibration and percussion or percussive therapy were different through this process, you know, like your glasses that are on your head or your watch on your arm on your arm or your wedding band or socks or a belt, whatever that is, when you put that on your body is aware of it for a few moments, but then it goes away and that in that process is called accommodation and your body accommodates this information. Well my body started to accommodate to this vibration because It wasn't strong enough and it wasn't powerful enough, it didn't give that it didn't have a good enough punch. I didn't know that at the time but I just instinctively knew I needed something stronger, I could feel it. And so I would go get treatment and I'd come back, I'd go get treatment, I'd come back and I'd use this Viper Cluster in my car and back at the clinic in my house, and I'd sleep with it. And it just became less and less effective. And I was getting really irritated by that. People that are close to me kind of to say I turned green sometimes because I was so frustrated by it. So I was sitting in my house and I thought, I localized I located located my pain, my pain was in my subscapularis and kind of underneath my where I rotators were, and I needed to get to them. I could feel it with my thumb. But I couldn't that thing that I had the Viper Cluster wasn't getting to it. So I realized, okay, that's making the pain stop, but it's not really causing any therapy. So I thought, you know what I need I need something that punches it. So I literally, you know, I I grew up around tools my whole life. I think that's one of the really unique things that I brought to the table as a as the inventor of this product is my ability to use my hands. I mean, from the time I was little I remember I used to go to scouts and we take leather working classes. I love that. I love making arrows and quivers on the arrows. And my hands were really this sort of these tools and as a chiropractor, Chiro is hands and practor is practice so chiropractors use their hands, it just ended up fitting. Having something that I could use in my hands on myself was something I was looking for, and I made something. So in early 2008, I finally made something that I can use on myself, and I did in the first six months of 2008 to July, I got myself better. I mean, the first few months was pain, really pain, just pain relief. Then the next few months was range of motion increase and I learned how it was effecting the Golgi tendon where it activated the Golgi. And now you Have a larger range of motion and it wouldn't hurt so much and then the next few months was rehab. Just using it at the gym. I would walk around Gold's Gym and find a plug with this thing because there's a plug in, and I'd only work out near a plug and I had friends of mine be like, What the hell are you doing go and use that thing. But I started to experience, not realizing, but I kind of gathered this library of information over the first several months of 2008. But Anthony, I was it served its purpose. Like I was done, I got better. And I thought I will find something like this in the market. Someone will bring it to me the way the universe works. I get the bet. There's something out there. I'll run into it. It's just not hitting my windshield, right? Put it aside, went back to my practice. Several months later, a patient comes in, and it was an identical situation and I think when I talk about this, Anthony, I tell people, I wasn't thinking about using that on other people. And I have several patients, you know, we get sometimes eighty new patients a month, and several months have gone by, and I never thought to use it on anyone but this particular patient had a very similar injury, similar mechanism of injury and his is his diagnostic study showed something very similar. His insurance was similar to what I had, which is shit. Sorry if I'm not supposed to swear. But no, that's 12 visits. Yeah. And I knew that I wasn't going to get him better and 12 visits, so 12 visits, we burn through just treating pain, I wouldn't be able to get to the injury part. So I thought, Man, I wonder if this will work on him. So that's the first time that I really thought of sharing this crazy tool with someone else. But I did, and it worked. And that's what sort of stirred this whole thing on I was the first patient. This guy was the second patient. I walked him through literally what I had gone through. I told him that this isn't going to treat you your injury. I just need you to use it to treat your pain. And when you bring it back to me to see me on a daily basis I will use it to treat your injury, but I'll use it in a different way. So I just took what I'd learned and just applied it to this guy. And then from there on Anthony, it was just I was kind of this walking lab, from working with NASCAR to working on Unbreakable performance with some of the top athletes in the world and then just regular people from my mom and you know, guys like you and I that are just out trying to do our thing. I was seeing these effects that were really profound. So from 2008 to 2016 I basically made five different versions and recreated it worked on the attachments and tried to find you know, really define ergonomics and understand how these attachments work on the tissue of the body and realizing that hard plastic attachments don't really do anything they feel good but don't have any therapeutic effect. Understanding all of this I kind of created this massage gun space in from 2008 to 15. Not really doing it in an intentionally? Trust me when you're asked to leave Indian Wells training room with all the tennis players, that doesn't feel like success, you know, I was asked to leave golf driving ranges, like get out here the things too loud. But I was I wasn't I, the more people got to know me they understood my sincere desire is to help you. If you buy this, you don't buy it, I don't care. I want to at least help you understand how it works and how to use it. So I meet my business partner, the beginning of 2016 and 2015. We start Theragun as a company in June of '16 we launched our G1 that month. One year later, in July of 2017. We launched our G2 Pro, which I know a lot of people that have today is still pretty loud. There's a story behind that why that happened. And then in 2018, end of '18 launched our G3 Pro and that series our G3 and Liv and then in 19, we launched our GR Gen 4 products, which is what you see now our Pro elite prime, and the little mini things crazy awesome. So that's kind of the nutshell what's happened and I think to wrap it up really quickly, Anthony relationships and connection is really important to me. It's important to me on a patient level, it's important to on a friendship level, and to be able to connect with people and understand what they really need. What we've learned with Theragun and we've been we've we've evolved into Therabody is that Theragun didn't represent what I do. It doesn't represent what we do as a company. It represents a product and now with our App with our with our Bluetooth technology with our quiet force technology motor that's in that in our devices, with our with our CBD line in Therabody really is about offering natural wellness solutions that you can trust that are scientifically validated that integrate into your life and so Theragun as you can understand that doesn't really represent that it's just one of the tools so Therabody now as a company will grow into an educational platform, understanding how to use these new devices that seem to be popping up every day in different areas. We have 22 studies in the last three years that have just validated a lot of the things that I've seen anecdotally from you know, Cristiano Ronaldo to Sloane Stephens to my mom, you know that that it's it's it has its its uses, so I know that was probably long winded sorry.

Anthony Kjenstad :

That was perfect. I think one of the things in doing a little more background on you know, I think a lot of products come from somewhere else right like they came from this idea and and you learned more about it as you developed and one of the things I was interested in, when I was looking more into you is is you know, I even saw the technology a a deep tissue, soft tissue massage device but when you start talking about it you're talking about affecting the nervous system. The Mechano-Transduction of heat and the Golgi tendon, which geeks me out. I love that stuff. dive a little bit into, you know why the listener here would think it's one thing but in your mind, it's a completely it's that but it's even deeper. Can you dive into a little bit about the nervous system and how you have a positive effect on that?

Dr. Jason Wersland :

Yeah. You know, there are a lot of vibration products on the market and vibration initially to the body feels good and it's a feeling, you know, if I, if I take my pen, and I just, you know, I just run that down my arm that feels good. I can feel that it gives me goosebumps, it has a feeling it. There's a sense that my body receives, but there's no real therapeutic effect and so what what I learned that Theragun provides is what we call mechanical transduction which is mechanical heat and when you when you punch the skin, at with our millimeters in our science, you're actually hitting a tissue inside the skin called the chromatin and the chromatin releases heat inside. So it's a little bit like melting butter in a microwave how it melts from the inside out, you're actually causing heat being generated deep inside the tissue that drives from the inside out. You know, a lot of times using graston tools or you know, a lot of those surface tools, you're you're bringing blood to the surface, but you're irritating the surface. It's micro traumas, that's allowing the body to do its natural response to that. I don't want a micro trauma on the skin. That's not where I want the therapy. I want the therapy in the tissue. So our 16 millimeters actually accesses those points inside the body that drives the heat from the inside out. So that's the first one that it does that it's kind of Have a cascade of events. The first thing it does is it overrides pain and this is why our, our, our pain travels to the brain inside the body about 55 miles an hour. So I have pain in my nec and I have pain in my fingers, and then the tissues down my arm. When I took the Theragun what it was wasn't called them Theragun. But if I took that on, I put it on my opposite arm, or I used my unaffected hand and I did it on my chest or my, my quad away from the affected side that information now travels to the brain because it's stimulating the skin at 268 miles an hour. So now I have pain in my right hand at 55 miles an hour sending a signal to the brain and then I take this thing and I put it on my quad and it's now going into the brain 268 miles an hour, I'm overriding that stimulus. So it's beating that stimulus to the to the brain. That is overriding pain. So that's what happens very first. Like people like, Oh my god, I feel so good. as it sits there. The next thing that happens is it activates the Golgi tendon, that stimulus releases the joint. and now the Golgi tendon allows that what they call activates the Golgi tendon. It allows your body to have a larger range of motion because it's not so tight. People kind of think sometimes our muscles are tight, muscles don't get tight. It's the white tissue that's holding them to the bones that gets tight. And the Golgi tendon is inside that white tissue. So if I'm a baseball thrower, or I'm, you know, Maria Sharapova playing tennis and I have a constricted range of motion in my shoulder. If I can take something and increase that range of motion and activate your Golgi tendon. Now the actin and myosin in the muscle fibers bind tighter.

Anthony Kjenstad :

How are you educating the consumer on this? So I know this has got a post injury application. It's got a a wellness, recovery application. I know that you guys are building content around this, it must be constantly that you're doing this because who, whoever you're educating, you've got to educate them kind of what you just did. Right. So where does the general consumer find this education of how do I use this for recovery? How do I use this if I've got patellar? tendonitis, Achilles tendonitis, do you have all that content on your new website?

Dr. Jason Wersland :

Yes. So it's all you it's definitely all on our App so if you download the Therabody App it actually communicates with your device, whether you have a an elite, a mini or a pro, a pro, you can actually push the protocol to the device, the Theragun. So if you have a Prime, and you pull up something about tendinitis, you can actually program from the App, and the Theragun, the Prime or the mini, whatever you have, or the Elite, I'm sorry, will actually turn on for you and you just follow the protocols. So to answer your question, we have two ways of being of educating our App, which is the lowest hanging fruit, you can download it and you just go through the app. Inside the app, you have these cards, you might need a card what we tried to do is, is imitate what you get when you walk into a doctor's office. You ever seen those walls that has all the cards and there's one there for like diabetes and high blood pressure and, you know, arthritis or muscle pain, we just chose cards. So if you choose that card, let's say it's, let's say it's a body part, let's say it's hamstrings, you choose the hamstrings once you choose that card, and you click the button, it'll actually turn on the Theragun and you can see from the App, where to put it, how long to hold it there and it tells you how much pressure to apply. That's the interactive experience. We also have Therabody University. So Therabody University we actually have 100, 200 and 300 level courses. So you can jump on our inspire 360 or whatever platform we're using and you can take our foundations course. So let me walk you through this. You're a licensed massage therapist. You want to understand how to use this device, you just bought it and it's amazing. Oh my god, this is great. Then you reach out to us and we actually can push to you the licensed massage therapy course. But we recommend you take the foundation's course first. So the foundations course comes to you. And it's basically origins of our product history of procussive therapy, the science behind it and how to apply it in your life. Simple, easy, takes 10-15 minutes. The next step to that would be for licensed massage therapist to take our course. So we actually have a licensed massage therapy course within Therabpdy University that issues them four hours of continuing education credits, and it gives them a certification at the end of that course they're now certified to use Theragun on their clients and also on themselves for self care. So within the course the Therabody university we have licensed massage therapy courses. We have personal trainer and strength and conditioning coach courses and we have practitioner courses. So at whatever level you're at plus the foundation's course so if you're, I sent the foundation's course to a buddy of mine in Idaho. He's got a bunch of high school kids and we donated some some Theraguns to the team and they need to know how to use it. So we actually pushed the 15 minute Foundation's course, he threw it up on a screen. bunch of guys are sitting there understanding how to use it now. It's like herding cats. You got a high school football team. It's very possible

Anthony Kjenstad :

Those ones that needed the most though, right?

Dr. Jason Wersland :

Right. So they'll be able to have them just understand the basics of how to use it. That's really what that's for. And then from, you know, strength and conditioning coaches, the guys that work with the Lakers, or the New York Jets or the New York Rangers or the you know, whoever that is that's out there. These guys now have access to our strength and conditioning coaches course, that shows them how to condition someone before, during and after Strength training and then you also take them out on a field or a quarter a pitch or whatever it is, you now have the trainers that are out there, they've also been trained. So what we're trying what we want to do with Therabody University is create an ecosystem around those products, so that whoever's around if you're not familiar with it, someone else of authority in your space is.

Anthony Kjenstad :

So one question to further and follow your path here of Therabody and adding CBD to this. A lot of the pro athletes have been afraid to get consulted on using CBD products are you guys doing anything in your CBD space where it's I think NSF certified where these athletes can actually integrate it into their recovery.

Dr. Jason Wersland :

Yeah, NSF is, as you know, well respected in the sporting world on the globe. It's not just in America, and we're working closely with them. They do not certify any CBD topicals at the time. Right now currently, we're working closely with them, because we are the only product on the market that has USDA certified organic topicals like a lotion. Then NSF is starting to realize, oh, okay, that's where that industry is going. We've got to start doing some testing towards that so we're actually working with the NSF on some of those products because of the five products we have there's only one ingestible the rest of them are topical. Yeah. So it's it's it's not an easy thing. And and, and I respect that our company totally respects that because it's what validates them as a as the leaders in that space. One of the things that's really important for people to understand is that we carry in our products, less than .03% THC, per volume. So if you're taking this, the THC that's in your body gets metabolized within the first 24 to 48 hours and it is it's a facilitator. One of the things that's really been empowering for us as a company is to do the educational portion of CBD and I think that the NSF even with the NSF, and what some of these other organizations, the some of the teams we work with in the in Europe, once we start explaining to them that CBD hemp plants are not the same as marijuana plants sometimes that's all they need. Oh, wow, I didn't know that. No, it's not the same. And more More importantly, and I think even more powerful Anthony is people don't understand that we actually have our own cannabinoid systems in our body. And that cannabinoid system is what communicates from our brain to our nervous system, and our brain to our immune system. That's recovery. When you lay down to go to sleep, or you've gone to see massage therapist, your seeing your trainer, if you're pro athlete, you want a facility your nervous system and your immune system health. So you want to facilitate a healthier immune system and a healthier nervous system. That's how blood flows. That's how life begins, like all those things. And what we've been missing from our ignorance is the benefits of CBD because we thought CBD and Weed were the same thing. And they're not. So I think that's one of the messages we have to share and understanding as the first we have our, our COA'S, which basically provide our steps along the way. We actually put that on our website. So each one of our products comes with a this code URL code. Yep, so they're called. And you you if you scan that, this will take you right to our website, and it will tell you the testing that's been done on this tube. We have four different tests along the way. So we're trying to elevate the standards of CBD because the reason we made this Anthony is I didn't trust half the stuff I was getting. Some of it had more. Some of it had less. I had a, there's an athlete that I know is a halfpipe skier. And she took some CBD failed the test had more THC and they said it was and they stripped over medals. Think about how devastating that is. Yeah, she actually sued the company. And they won. Because what they put on the bottle was not what was in the bottle. And that's how this world is. It's like a wild wild west. You can say whatever the hell you want. We can't afford that. I can't afford that. If I pulled this tube out, and I threw this on Cristiano Ronaldo, and he fails a test we're done. And he's in trouble. Who needs that extra drama. So that's a really where we've come from. And so the fact that we have these topicals that are USDA certified organic, it's because we've had four different tests, we do testing of the ground, and it has to be USDA Organic. We do the testing of the of the harvest. So once it's harvested, we make sure that all The products are organic. Then once we extrude it, we get it down to the oils, they test it there, and then we test it once it's been bottled. So by the time you get this, whether you're my mom, your Cristiano Ronaldo, you're going to be able to be comfortable and confident in the fact that this is what it says it is from the first squirt to the last squirt of this bottle, and the ongoing bottles. And that's not an easy process. But it's also building confidence in our in the use of our products. And those are just checkboxes along the way bringing it back to NSF. Those are checkboxes that NSF wants to see. Like show us visibility. Give us where you're where you're extruding this, where's it made, and we actually have our own land in Boulder, Colorado where this is harvested. And it's it's USDA certified organic land. We do it in Boulder, Colorado because they have the highest standards for CBD right now. And we wanted to raise elevate the standards of that. So that's it I know that's a long winded answer.

Anthony Kjenstad :

It's great because I go to all these sports meetings and I see 20 different CBD boosts and you go up and you can't like you said, there's no education on it. There's no understanding so nobody wants to touch it. I think you guys are doing a great thing where you're a big name out in this world and you're actually grabbing the technology and understanding and educating the end user. Walk me a little bit if you could through you've got five different solutions, Activate, Recover, Revive, Sleep and Sooth How do you differentiate a CBD version for sleep versus recover is one more of a topical while the other ones ingested before you go to bed,

Dr. Jason Wersland :

Basically, and I can break them down. So we have five different products. When we were developing these products. We had a scientist and we have an engineer and then myself and my wish list was I wanted something that was warm, that would warm the tissue. So think about it in a clinic setting Anthony you're familiar clinic settings. patient comes in, they lay down, well, they usually do something to heat the tissue. God knows what that is. But there's 1000 different ways. Well, I needed something that I could put on them that I trusted that worked that kind of was replacement in my hands. So if I'm working on I've got a stroke patient that I work on use him as an example. I work on his affected side, it's his left side. Well, I start with his feet and his hand and his calf, because that's where all of his tight tissue is. I rub that on that tissue. It becomes warm, the blood flows there, even though he's even though he's got that, you know, the stroke issueHis foot calms down and it immediately relaxes but the brain thinks my hands are still there because it's warm. He's warming that tissue. So we have a warming product which is Activate and I used Activate yesterday, every Sunday. I kind of have my It's like my mini Olympics for myself. Like I try and outdo what I did the Sunday before and my workout and yesterday was gonna be rough and I knew it. So I actually put Activate on every muscle I was going to use and you get this blood flow and it doesn't get tired, you don't get fatigued and I'm using Theragun between my sets. So Activate is warming and it works as an athlete or it works in a clinic setting. Recover is cooling. So now once I'm done with my patient, and I want to kind of close off that blood flow, shut that down, because that's what you want to do as a therapist. Now I'm going to take that cooling lotion and put the cooling lotion on him. If I get to a point where I'm working on an athlete and there's a localized painful area somewhere that sore they got a knot and you know tendinitis or something that's where we use Revive and Revive is our strongest, most concentrated CBD. And it's we have to be careful because can't say pain yet yet, but it's basically for those areas that are about the size of the palm of your hand or smaller that are painful.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Are you delivering with the gun in many instances?

Dr. Jason Wersland :

Absolutely. I had a patient the other day that I was working on, that's a football player and he had, he had medial knee pain and I felt like where it was coming from was from his hamstring his abductors. So I put Revive right on where the knee pain was and I put Activate on the rest of the tissue up his hamstring and up his adductor and I drove that through with Theragun. I treated him for about a minute I had a move, sort of do some dynamic movements and I treated him again. Then he went back to work when he was done came over and I put Recover on the whole thing, just caked that area with that lotion, and he stands up like oh my God, this feels amazing. But the long term effect of using CBD any of the products is its ability to help you heal the nervous system and your immune system. So we talked about Activate, talked about Recover, warming, cooling, Revive, basically a save comes in a roll on or a jar and then you have Sleep which Let me taste a Soothe which is a massage oil. Massage therapists are using CBD anywhere you look now you go to massage therapist, they'll have a CBD add on or a CBD choice in their menu. So we felt like it's really important to make our Soothe massage oil and we sell that in gallon jugs to a massage therapist. Lastly and not, not least we have what we call our Sleep tincture. So you take this that dropper is about 30 milliliters

Anthony Kjenstad :

So your going sublingual with it?

Dr. Jason Wersland :

Yep, sublingual. You do a minute 30 seconds to a minute and with your tongue and then you swallow it. Okay, it is not a sedative. Like some people, my my fiance's grandmother was like, Oh my god, they'll help me go to sleep. It doesn't really help you go to sleep but once you're asleep, it puts you in a restful state and it facilitates that communication now from the brain to your immune system and your nervous system which gives you a longer REM sleep and you wake up in the morning you actually feel more revived? And we did we've done two sleep studies with this we're actually in the middle of doing one with another company and every time we do one it's overwhelmingly positive.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Have you measured like a deep sleep change with like I have the Oura ring and one of my most challenging things as I can't get deep sleep and I was talking to the guy from the Wizards the Head Performance guy from the Wizards and I was like give me some strategies on deep sleep like and he's like, giving me some nutritional strategies and stuff like that. So I'm actually gonna reach out and and get some of that from you because I've I'm not by any means an elite athlete, but because I'm in this biohacking space now I always am like, Okay, I gotta get better at this got to get better sleep got it. And I was so frustrated I could not get deep sleep. I cannot seem to augment that. So I'm Have you point to Yeah, search on what you're finding if you could,

Dr. Jason Wersland :

Yeah, we actually did it with the aura ring. We actually did it with the Oura Ring. We had you have to have more than 30 people to create a validated study I don't remember if we had 38 or 42 or something we had a considerable amount of people and we were also I was doing a separate study with separate group at the same time with our Activated and Recover. So Jen's on the call my EA and I'll make sure that we send them out to you You got to try it and it's really good I think that you've been wearing the Oura ring so you so when you do add this little piece of our CBD sleep tincture you'll be able to see a difference it's not like you just started the Oura ring the same day you started this?

Anthony Kjenstad :

No, no, I'm gonna give you the feedback cuz I've really been watching it. So I know you're busy. Last question, because this actually just came up for me today. I got a call from the Blue Jays said hey, we're doing all of our games in New York, Buffalo and we can't use our normal recovery regimens. We can't use water tanks, etc. so they're going to use my product and now they're turning the corner on that. I just thought of you and your product. I mean, it's gotta be a game changer in that space as well, where they want to send the athletes not in this recovery room environment and maybe they can't get their hands on every athlete so educating their athletes how to self care with your device is got to be huge for these teams. Do you have teams that are really gravitating to that?

Dr. Jason Wersland :

Yeah, we do. I mean, we have relationships with teams. That's, that's, that's kind of why I feel like that's one of the foundational reasons we grew so quickly as a company is, these athletes were getting it and they were using it because it was so effective. And, you know, as you know, it's so incestuous. You know, one of the top NBA guys in the states may know a top Premier League player in the UK and tell them, hey, you got to try this. And that's sort of how we grew in a real organic way. But what you're saying is exactly right. You know, a lot of our education is based off the fact we want to empower people. And you've been in sports and around pro sports you've seen these kids, whether I don't care what What sport it is, you know, they come in and they're they're young 20s they've always had their bodies treated by someone else and and and it doesn't matter what professional athlete or what sport they've played, when I start working with them and I empowering them, they're spending less time on the training table, because they're realizing these are just some little bumps and dents that they can fix themselves. If they understood what was going on and they don't have to be an injured reserve. They don't have to talk about an injury they had that really wasn't an injury was just something that was painful and they can treat themselves. So I think we do have a little bit of ways to go, you know, kind of coming back to talking about NSF. We have to respect that process and I and I trust me there's a lot of times I want to circumvent that because I worked on a hockey guy a couple weeks ago, I was like, I want to put this on you. I know it'll work but I don't want you to feel nervous or jeopardize something that's happening on your space. So I think it's super cool that they're coming to you. You know, you talked about silver linings with this COVID thing there's, there's people like you and I who have been steadily doing our thing, creating these relationships and connections with different athletes and different people with just the desire to help them and we know that that it does. And I think you're just having your foot in the door when the opportunities there to be able to kind of leverage some of that. That's kind of what we're doing as well.

Anthony Kjenstad :

But I mean, I looked at your journey, right? You started this in 2008. And, and you didn't really realize it was a business until 2015-16. Right? So seriously, you're a seven year overnight success. So no, I appreciate the journey. I appreciate you jumping on the podcast. I definitely am going to stay connected with you guys and where you're going. Where do you want people to find you obviously you talked about the Therabody University you talked about the about your App, which I just downloaded this morning. Where else can they find you? I'm assuming Linkedin and Instagram, you're not doing a Tik Tok videos are you?

Dr. Jason Wersland :

No way, man. I, my son said something about that. I'm like, I can't even keep the social media. I have to straight. I don't need another one. We have Therabody University on Instagram.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Okay, I'll link to the podcast.

Dr. Jason Wersland :

We have our Therabody Instagram just a standard regular therapy account. We have a few of those in different parts of the world because we want to make, you know, Germany's Instagram more localized to them. We realized as I've been able to travel the world, we've realized that Spain is not America. Serbia is not America, UK is not America so we want to have the content to them. So it'll be Therabody and then any sort of country after that, then mine is Dr. Jason Wersland that's @Therabody. I am on LinkedIn. You can also email me and I I give an email DJW@theragun.com. . If you have questions. You know if there's things that come up from this podcast today, people want to follow up. I answer those I obviously have a little bit help with that but I answer almost every one of those emails, I go through them on a daily basis and make sure that people are getting what they want. So I want to tell you and I appreciate this, you know, part of part of part of the humbling part of this is meeting people like you that are giving us a platform to share our desires and our wishes as a brand. We want to empower people. I want people to understand that you don't always have to take a medication, that there's a lot of ways most of our problems are musculoskeletal. And that's just movement, neurology, blood flow, all of those things. And when you take the ability in your hands to treat yourself, there's something really magical that happens. You know, my parents live in Norway. My mom had a bilateral bunionectomy and you can imagine what that's like not being able to walk for several weeks, but to be able to use the Theragun on the lower legs and to increase the blood flow and to be able to take away some of the daily pain she had so she's not taking so much medication, all the way up to, you know, different athletes that have these injuries and being able to treat themselves at home. That's, that's really where we see it. And I've got to say this to our licensed massage therapy course, we've actually certified over 500 massage therapists during COVID We are not a company that wants to take away from massage therapists we want to give back and give them tools that help their longevity. These things can be worn out our hands our tools and you can wear them out really quickly if a couple days, a couple years of seeing five or six patients a day for five days a week. That's rough. So I think sometimes if I don't point that out people feel like we're trying to take that place and it's not you know, we have some trainers with some teams are just so grateful. You know, I'm thinking of Danny Long the trainer for the for the Atlanta Falcons. He's like, Man, it's just made my life so much easier.

Anthony Kjenstad :

I love that guy. He's great. Yeah, he's awesome.

Dr. Jason Wersland :

And he's and he says it's made my life so much easier I don't have to touch so many of the athletes I just get to focus on the ones that really need my help the other guys I can just sort of monitor them after you know three or four times using it they just know what they're doing so it's that's the perfect storm for us perfect storm for me.

Anthony Kjenstad :

They can hand that athlete now in this day and age a unit and they go home with it and they take care of themselves and they're no they're getting that extended care for for not much you know, relative to the cost of taking care of these guys right so right and now that you're giving them this platform where they can actually self care and monitor cuz even my wife and I when we use it, like she loves it right? But I'm like, man, they're even when I was listening to you talk on a different podcast, they doing a little research I'm like, we're not even using this thing optimally Like we need to dig down and because we're getting into that 51 year old aches and pains peloton two hour ride like oh, you know, yeah, yeah. So no, I agree. I did. thing

Dr. Jason Wersland :

I did a podcast this recently with a guy who said, I couldn't figure out why my calves kept getting sore the next day after using Theragun. He said, I realized I was looking at your App and I'm only supposed to use it for two minutes for recovery and I've been using it for like 10 or 15. Think about that your calf if I took that out, and it was a slab of meat, and I just kept pounding away at it, it's eventually going to break down. So at to your point, that's part of the reason we put these protocols together is there's part of it, it is instinctive, but there's a large part of it. It's not and we have the responsibility of making sure you know how to use it effectively and efficiently and, and that you're confident.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Awesome, man. Well, hey, I do appreciate your time. It's great reconnecting with you, even though it's over a Squadcast and I'll keep following the journey and really appreciate you jumping on Jason. Thank you for having us, Anthony. It's really cool. All right, take care, man. Well, that wraps up podcast number 10. It's been a great journey so far. And one of the Biggest blocks I was told would be, I would not make it to number 10. So I feel like I just checked the box. If you like the content, please tell the friends subscribe. The link is in the show notes. Comments are always welcome and appreciated. So please take an extra minute to do that if you have any time. I hope all of you and your families are safe and I really appreciate you spending the last 45 minutes with me. Have a great day.