Athletic Recovery & Performance Podcast

Darren Treasure-Mental Performance Coach- Control what you can control!

August 05, 2020 Anthony Kjenstad Season 1 Episode 9
Athletic Recovery & Performance Podcast
Darren Treasure-Mental Performance Coach- Control what you can control!
Chapters
Athletic Recovery & Performance Podcast
Darren Treasure-Mental Performance Coach- Control what you can control!
Aug 05, 2020 Season 1 Episode 9
Anthony Kjenstad

🎧 Podcast episode #9
For over twenty-five years Darren has served as a mental performance coach for teams, coaches and athletes competing in the challenging and high-paced world of elite sport.  He has had the opportunity to work with multiple Olympic and World Champions, athletes and teams competing in the NBA, NFL, and MLB. His passion is coaching his clients to achieve their full potential with a focus on the development of self-awareness and personal mastery. At the team and organization level his work prioritizes the establishment of a learning culture and a motivational climate that promotes character, excellence, and the facilitation of psychological needs. A science practitioner Darren was formerly a tenured Professor at Arizona State University and currently holds an Honorary Professorship at Bath University in the United Kingdom where he continues his research on motivation and human performance.


In this episode I do a deep dive with Darren and get a behind the scenes look in to what makes the mind of a champion.  Athletes are regular people, like you and I, and they come to work with the same issues, anxieties and troubles we all have to deal with.  An often overlooked aspect of Recovery Is the mental aspect of recovery.  More Is not always better especially on the mental side and Darren does a great job discussing what It takes to give athletes the edge they need.

Books recommended by Darren:
Robin S. Sharma “The Monk who sold his Ferrari.” Harper One.
James Kerr “Legacy.” Constable.

Books authored by Darren:

With Professor Glyn Roberts “Advances in Motivation in Sport and Exercise.” Human Kinetics. 



Twitter: https://twitter.com/darrentreasure?lang=en

Please find Anthony Kjenstad, Jake Wilks and Firefly™
Email:  [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/athleticrecoveryandperformance/notifications/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/fireflyrecovery
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fireflyrecovery/
Website: https://recoveryfirefly.com/


Show Notes Transcript

🎧 Podcast episode #9
For over twenty-five years Darren has served as a mental performance coach for teams, coaches and athletes competing in the challenging and high-paced world of elite sport.  He has had the opportunity to work with multiple Olympic and World Champions, athletes and teams competing in the NBA, NFL, and MLB. His passion is coaching his clients to achieve their full potential with a focus on the development of self-awareness and personal mastery. At the team and organization level his work prioritizes the establishment of a learning culture and a motivational climate that promotes character, excellence, and the facilitation of psychological needs. A science practitioner Darren was formerly a tenured Professor at Arizona State University and currently holds an Honorary Professorship at Bath University in the United Kingdom where he continues his research on motivation and human performance.


In this episode I do a deep dive with Darren and get a behind the scenes look in to what makes the mind of a champion.  Athletes are regular people, like you and I, and they come to work with the same issues, anxieties and troubles we all have to deal with.  An often overlooked aspect of Recovery Is the mental aspect of recovery.  More Is not always better especially on the mental side and Darren does a great job discussing what It takes to give athletes the edge they need.

Books recommended by Darren:
Robin S. Sharma “The Monk who sold his Ferrari.” Harper One.
James Kerr “Legacy.” Constable.

Books authored by Darren:

With Professor Glyn Roberts “Advances in Motivation in Sport and Exercise.” Human Kinetics. 



Twitter: https://twitter.com/darrentreasure?lang=en

Please find Anthony Kjenstad, Jake Wilks and Firefly™
Email:  [email protected]
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/athleticrecoveryandperformance/notifications/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/fireflyrecovery
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fireflyrecovery/
Website: https://recoveryfirefly.com/


Anthony Kjenstad :

Hello, my name is Anthony Kjenstd and welcome to the Athletic recovery and performance podcast. In this podcast you'll follow my journey of understanding the science behind recovering performance and the technologies that help us get there. I will be interviewing athletes and the behind the scenes professionals that help these athletes reach optimal performance and recovery. Hello podcasters Welcome to podcast number nine. In this episode, I will be speaking with mental performance coach darren treasure. Jaron and I met initially when I had the opportunity to work with Galen Rupp and his team integrating the Firefly into his recovery regimen. I thought it was interesting the mental performance coach was part of the Recovery Team. But now that I have had the opportunity to work with Darren, I've realized the best managed performance teams are the ones that all are on the same page. mental performance and mental recovery are an often overlooked side of an athlete's performance. And Darren gives us an inside look and suggestion on how we can integrate this into an athlete's performance and recovery regimen. Darren's background in this space is immense from his author book, "Advances in motivation in sports and exercise", to the multiple athletes he has worked with across Olympic and World Champions, as well as college programs and the elite in the NBA, NFL and MLB. I hope you get a sense of his passion he has for his clients. And I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Before I get this started, I also want to say a big thank you to everybody who's subscribed to the podcast. And also the comments have been amazing so I appreciate the comments. So we'll just jump into it. I think it goes easier when we just kind of jump into conversation. So the reason I developed a podcast is really to shed some light on technologies either that I represent or that I see in the community of a sports performance and so I've shed some light on my tools, different tools, you know, what enhances recovery, what enhances performance, we're talking about nutrition, sleep but I think one of the foundations that I find is overlooked is probably the mental health side and the mental wellness side of sports. So, I wanted to get you on and talk a little bit about what you do and and kind of help the community understand how someone like you can help an athlete perform at their top level. Can you give me a little background about yourself?

Darren Treasure :

So I was a university professor for 10 years after finishing my doctoral degree at the University of Illinois. So I was a professor of Illinois at Southern Illinois University of Evansville, and then Arizona State University for six years. All the way through that period of time I was consulting with individual athletes teams Federation's on mental performance and coaching and then in 2004, I took a sabbatical from ASU and then just decided not to go back and then since then, I've just been working full time, with various organizations ranging from FIFA to NBA teams, NFL athletes and professional runners.

Anthony Kjenstad :

You went to Chicago, I believe is that one of the foundations of the behind the scenes of this concept of mental performance coaches that kind of where it all started or is that one of the grassroots areas of the this concept?

Darren Treasure :

If you look at the history of sports psychology, it really began at the University of Illinois. That's where they there was the first lab established, looking at the the influence of psychological variables on sport performance, and then the influence of sport performance on various psychological outcomes. That's where it began with with a professor Coleman Griffith. And he wasvery influential in the field getting it started and we're talking early 1900s. So he worked with the Chicago Bears, he worked with Red Grange, he worked with a lot of individuals and that's really where the field began? It's gone through various iterations since then but yes, Illinois is often seen as the, the the origins of the field.

Anthony Kjenstad :

What's the biggest misunderstanding of your field? I assume, just from me initially meeting you and thinking about, you know how you would help an athlete. I'm always thinking it's coming from a place of being broken. But I would assume you're optimally used with an athlete who just needs some fine tuning in specific areas. Can you kind of comment and discuss about, you know, optimally how you're used and where you're most commonly misinterpreted as your your use?

Darren Treasure :

Well, I think that you know, as in every field, there are going to be individuals that are better suited to specific challenges from an athlete perspective. So I think where the field is evolved to which is a fantastic evolution is that we now have people who sort of deal with clinical counseling issues, because obviously elite athletes or high school athletes, college athletes, recreational athletes they are people too. So they they deal with exactly the same kinds of issues that the normal population would would deal with. We then have a real thrust now throughout, maybe not so much in the United States. So it's becoming more of a more prevalent, but around the world and Olympic sports in particular, there's a real push on mental wellness. So helping people make sure that they are mentally well, and then there's the group that sort of deals with performance enhancement. So piggybacking off of what you said, Anthony, so these are people who, you know, are working with athletes who are mentally well, that they do not have clinical counseling issues. And they are looking just to get better. And I think that one of the big misnomers in the field historically has been that you only see somebody who works in the area of mental performance or sports psychology if you have a problem. I think what you'll find is that the best performers in the world are often the ones who, to your point, are looking for a competitive advantage. They're looking to maximize everything that they're trying to do. So they buy into the idea of, you know, you don't have to be sick to get better. And so I think in the same way that they would see a nutritionist, the same way that they would attend to their recovery, the same way that they would see a strength and conditioning coach, a technical coach, a skills coach, they're going to seek out somebody who perhaps can just look at the their mental approach and their mindset, and maybe give them one or two strategies that could enhance that performance for by a very small amount, but it could be a very significant amount.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Yeah, that's what I thought was interesting when you and I met is that you were you were really part of the full decision tree. So you were involved in the recovery side and you kind of have to dabble in, I would assume all sides of sports performance and not just stay in your lane is that how you're best used when you're brought in on a, as part of the team? What are the two different approaches you take on that?

Darren Treasure :

I think that, you know, with an individual athlete, if the individual athlete contracts with you to work with them, it's a little bit more challenging because you don't have access necessarily to the other members of the performance management team. And, and you really are sort of helping them individually. And I think it's, it's, it's some times challenging because maybe you see things that are taking place in areas that you don't have a connection to those individuals. I think when you're brought into a team setting, I think that's when it works really well when it's more of an interview disciplinary or multi disciplinary approach, where there are a number of individuals who are all trying to achieve the same outcome, which is to help the athlete and or team optimize or maximize their performance. So I know that, you know, staying in your lane can sometimes be extremely important. I think I always look at it more about just recognizing that everybody in the performance management team is an expert in their own right and then making sure that we're philosophically on the same page, which is everybody gets an opportunity to perhaps provide input as to what may be best practice, what may be evidence based, what may actually help the team and or individual move forward, but recognizing it's a collective. It's really a team approach to helping the athlete optimize their development and performance.

Anthony Kjenstad :

So yeah, it's it's so individually when you're dealing with let's say an NBA athlete, do you find that you can actually communicate with other members of their staff whether they have their own sports psychologist or are you talking with their athletic trainers sometimes or are you getting that communication? Or is it really just one on one with the athlete would you say most of the time?

Darren Treasure :

in those cases, it's very much athlete driven. So if the athlete wants that and the athlete sees value in that, then the athlete is the one who sets that up and creates those connections. It's happened in lots of different ways. I mean, some athletes, they truly value having an objective outside person who isn't associated with or working for the franchise. So it gives them in many places a safe place where they have no doubts as to what's actually transpiring and what's taking place in those conversations is just staying there. There are other athletes who you know are they see it to their advantage to make sure there is communication and it's happened in both ways. I mean, I, I've been fortunate to work in house for an NBA team. I've worked with individual NBA players just simply as their guy and I've also worked with NBA players where we worked both with individuals within the franchise and then other experts as part of that individual athletes Performance Team that again has nothing to do with the NBA team.

Anthony Kjenstad :

So you know, one of the things I find interesting in life is I always say a plumbers pipes always leak. So you're working with elite athletes every day but you also have members of your household your children who are, you know, elite athletes in their self Do you find you find it easier to take care principles you already know and transfer that to your children or is it? Is it harder to work with your children on some of the things that you've known have made your athletes better?

Darren Treasure :

No, I'm useless working with my own children. Because what is the starting point is very different. I am. I don't know what on earth I'm talking about as far as they're concerned so there's there's no expertise or perception of expertise in that regard. So you know, it's it's funny, I think as they get older, they appreciate it more. I think part of the problem with being a parent or one of the challenges of being a parent is you're so invested. So you sometimes it's hard to it's hard to let go. Great example. So for example, I have an NBA players playing this afternoon in the last scrimmage of before they start live games of the week and last night, he was supposed to send me just his thoughts on today's game. And he didn't do it. I got up this morning, and there they were. And I think about it with my son, for example, I would not have let go last night, I would have been say, Where is it? Where is it? Where is it? And I know that the way I approach my NBA player is the appropriate way to do it but sometimes with your own children, it's impossible just to know when to turn the faucet off, and just go, Okay, he's fine. He'll get to it when he you know, when he's ready, when it's the appropriate time for him. So I think that that's one of the biggest challenges is and I'm still learning Very much so.

Anthony Kjenstad :

So. Yeah, I think we all are. So, you know, as part of this algorithm of performance and maximizing performance when somebody seek somebody out like yourself? I'm sure it's financial. You know, it's, you know, they don't want to pay extra amount of dollars for a gun that will help them massage better. When do you see your value your value with atheltes? You know, at elite level, you know LeBron James spends a million dollars on his body every year and brings in people like yourself, but I think as I'm diving down into this performance recovery world I'm seeing a lot of what I call them prosumers you know, these elite triathletes, these people running hundred mile races. When does somebody at that level, start to consider adding somebody like you to their team? You're at a very high level is there is there a place people can find somebody of your caliber maybe that they can fit in their budget and also at an elite youth level? When is it valuable to bring somebody like yourself in and maybe step out of the way if that athletes very close to maybe going to the next level or getting a college scholarship, but, you know, performs super well at practice but doesn't perform so well in the games. When did when did somebody bring you in at those levels and, and how do they integrate you? What's their expectations? I'm sure it's not, you know, three conversations and they're better, how do they integrate you into what they're doing?

Darren Treasure :

If we talk about the high school community, I think that's incredibly important developmental stage for young people and young athletes. And I would see the value of someone like me, who is providing a structure for how they should approach, development of performance in their athletics is how transferable those skills are to other aspects of their lives. If you look around the world in countries which have a far more advanced approach to academies and youth development, this is an incredibly integrated component of what those young men and young women experience on a daily basis. So with those athletes around the world, it's just part of what they do. It is no different than the technical work they do, the tactical work they do and the physical work they do. It is all integrated in an holistic approach to the overall development of the young athlete and a lot of those skill sets that I work on with youth athletes in particular are directly transferable to academics, to their social lives, and should be predictive of them being able to deal effectively with life. So I think that that's a great opportunity in an area for growth and I think that is where a lot of the growth is taking place. And as people become more familiar with, what the field offers, and is more familiar with the availability of resources, I think that's an incredible contribution that the field can make to young people around this country in terms of those prosumers, as you as you described them, these elite level, non professional athletes, I think but those individuals, there is a huge amount of opportunity for them to tap into their mind and their approach, just to make sure that, you know, again, just because physically maybe they're not quite able to be a professional, there's no reason why they can't be, from a psychological perspective, a professional. I mean, because maybe the limiting factor is their bodies. They're just, they're just there are some realities in sport where there's some physiological gifts that certain people have no matter what you do training wise, you're still not going to be at the absolute elite level. But if you are fully committed to trying to fulfill your potential why wouldn't you also look at your mind? And why wouldn't you also at least work with somebody who can help provide you or give you a structure to approach your training and your sport?

Anthony Kjenstad :

So speaking to this structure and training, is there anywhere we can go as a reference guide or like, you know, sports psychology for dummies, in essence, to kind of get on that road? Is there any books you recommend? Is there any, you know, do you yourself, have your own website where somebody can go to and kind of get the foundations of this before they bring somebody like yourself on their team?

Darren Treasure :

Well, I think that a good starting point is there is the Association for the Advancement of applied sport psychology or the Association for Applied sport psychology. It's a good resource. They have a directory of individuals who are people can reach out to to see if there's a fit for them. The United States Olympic Committee also has a directory of individuals who have that, you know, they can connect with. I think there are there are a lot of resources out there online. And I think that there are, there are a lot of books out there now that I mean, I would say that during this wonderful COVID period, I've reread or read an awful lot of the books that I find extremely interesting and helpful. Some of the teams I work with, you know, the first thing that one of the coaches I work with quite closely, she did was reach out and say, you know, you know, my team, I want them to read a book, How can we what book would you recommend that would help them grow And so we know so she sort of literally took that team created a book club as it were, and took them through a book to help them learn how to apply lots of the things we've talked to them about in a slightly different way. So I think there's lots of opportunities and resources out there to go and find.

Anthony Kjenstad :

What would be your top two book recommendations or the book you recommended to her to do her book club?

Darren Treasure :

Well, I recommended Robin Sharma as the monk Who Sold His Ferrari, which is a book that I've read two or three times because it speaks to me and my constant battle to try to find peace and purpose and to make sure that I'm actually making good decisions. So you know, it's a phenomenal read. It's it, you know, it. It's a great story, but it has a lot of practical lessons that you can learn and strategies that you can put into place in your own life.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Awesome. I'm going to pick up that book. So speaking to the elite athletes, I think being around them a lot more now with dealing in this recovery world I think one of the things I think you hit on in your Runner's world article with Kara Goucher is this lack of confidence in elite athletes is that one of the biggest things that you you deal with is, is what we would see outward facing as somebody that's accomplished so much and done so many. I was blown away from Kara and reading that article about and I don't know much about her prior to the article, but I think it was the whatever Olympics It was 2012 where you guys came in and maybe it coached her for a slower race and she ended up kind of not performing at the level she wanted to and she ended up being ninth but when you look at her time, she had still shaved off 30-40 seconds of her PR So, you know, talk to me about what are the common things that elite athletes tend to have to work is it mostly confidence?

Darren Treasure :

Again, athletes are just like everybody else. So I think that I would be very, very concerned if an athlete never has any doubts. I would be very, very concerned if an athlete never questioned themselves, their training environment, whether what they're doing is really working. I think that that's all part of the process and I think that the, the skill is being able to manage that situation, understanding it, and then have strategies to put in place to help yourself. So yeah, I mean, I think confidence is a big piece, I think control, understanding what you can control and what you can't control, and then being able to actually do something about it. I think that's again, I think what I think if you listen. Did the challenges that elite level athletes face, they would be no different than the challenges that a mom, a single mom raising two kids face, that an entrepreneur face, I think the challenges are very, very similar. I think that the key is to have the strategies to actually be able to manage those challenges effectively. And I think you know, what we control? It's a very logical one, when you sit down with an athlete and you go through what they can control, what they cannot control, but then they'll say, Yeah, okay, great. I get it. I don't have any control over what the coaches thinking, I don't have any control over what the people are saying in the media. I don't have any control over XYZ. What do I do about it? And then it's actually then taking the next step, which is to actually teaching them the skills and they are skills and they are trainable to help them more effectively deal with those situations. This COVID situation has been very interesting. And I've been extremely impressed with the way that the vast majority, if not all of the athletes that I'm lucky enough to work with have dealt with this situation. You know, some of my NFL guys, for example, it's been very, very difficult. It's still very, very difficult but you know, because even today today is, you know, the 28th of July, it's the first day that VETS are reporting, they still don't really know what's going on and, you know, so it's, it's extremely challenging.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Yeah, I think it's interesting with the NFL, I mean, you're now getting a lot of feedback, but they're allowing these players to opt out, and I'm sure there's a component of letting your team down. You know, still not really understanding COVID and how is it bad is it not as bad as everybody seems in then, you know, you're sitting on a multi million dollar contract, do you opt out for a year for your health and leave all that money on the table? There's just got to be a ton of things you're trying to manage as an athlete, when it when it relates to COVID, especially when you're kind of in this healthy population that doesn't truly seem to be. They're getting it, but they're not typically that affected from it at a health level.

Darren Treasure :

You know, I think it unfortunately, or fortunately, however, one wants to look at it. It does come down to a decision about finances and health. And what are you willing to sacrifice for what do you what do you wish to gain? Because I think that a lot of the people who are opting out some of the first people to opt out, you know, maybe they've already made a heck of a lot of money. And then it's like, Okay, well is the risk really worth the reward. I mean, I have one athlete I work with at the moment, he's in a contract year, that's, I have another athlete who signed a very, very large life changing deal back in April, with a huge amount of guaranteed money, who's like, I would not be surprised if he chose to opt out. My player who is in a contract yet, he's in a much, much more difficult situation. He hasn't made, you know, that huge amount of money that would give him the ability to make that decision. So I think it's, it's extremely complicated and difficult, but again, the numbers are different but the question and the challenge is the same. You know, so I think it's, it's very, very challenging at the moment for all of you for everybody. It's very, very challenging athletes are no different.

Anthony Kjenstad :

So Darren, you and I met because of of Firefly as a recovery modality on the physical side, but what do you talk to me about the recovery on the mental side with your athletes.

Darren Treasure :

You know, I think historically, the mindset of elite level athletes was more is better, to have more is better than more on top of more is even better and I think that, you know, I when I was at Arizona State we did had a PhD student who did a phenomenal dissertation on burnout of elite level athletes, and overreaching. And, you know, one of the things that came out of that research study, and that body of research that we sort of looked at was how important the psychological piece was. That the way that athletes perceived the workload, the way that they perceived the demands upon them was such a huge factor, why they were doing what they were doing. So I think that one of the things that I try really hard with my athletes is to get them to understand that recovery is just an integral part of who they are as elite level athletes. So that when psychologically, it's not just something you do at the end of practice, it's not just it really is part of a lifestyle, and recognizing how important it is not just for your body to recover, but also to give your mind the opportunity to have some downtime and to recover. That is just so, so important. So whether it's meditation, whether it's mindfulness training, all of those things are now such an integral part of being an elite level athlete. I think that if there's one thing that can enhance athletics and enhance that experience is when people really recognize that taking a day off or going through their recovery and making this an active recovery day isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign of strength, and it's a sign of understanding and truly getting what it is to be an elite level athlete and trying to become an elite level athlete. I'm experiencing that firsthand with my 15 year old son who literally wants to train every minute of every day and it's a battle every day to get him to take time off. It's a battle every day to give him a day off. Because he is completely of the mindset that the only way he can be successful is to grind every single day. Because that's what he's seeing on social media. That's what he's hearing. And the reality is, that's just not true. The best athletes you LeBron James is of the world that you mentioned earlier. There's a reason they're putting a million dollars into their body, but they're also putting a lot of effort and time into recovery of their mind and I think that's a really important part of the psychology of recovery.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Any go twos for you on the recovery of the mind, I mean, do you weigh yoga or meditation higher than just getting up and walking the dog and turning off social media for a day? Are there kind of any tricks that you have for your athletes or is it all really individual based on the athlete?

Darren Treasure :

What I try to do is to give myself athletes like a toolbox with lots of different tools in it, because depending on the way they're feeling that depending on what's going on in their lives, they may want to choose one modality or approach over another. Fundamentally, it's two things. One is breathing, just learning everything about the breath. And we know from the research that that's the key to a lot of recovery. And it's also very, very important psychologically. And the other one is distraction. I mean, there's just this whole idea of, like you said, going for a walk with the dog in the morning with your significant other may be the greatest form of recovery for some athletes. It could also be the worst kind of recovery for some sort of athletes, depending on the dog or your significant other, but, I mean, I think it's knowing thyself. I mean, I think that's the key thing. I mean, one of my athletes is, you know, has a morning routine that he does every day. But the one thing that I always can feel with that he needs, you know, contact with his significant other is very important. And I think that when that relationship is good, he is in a much better mind space or headspace, however you want to describe it. And I think working on that relationship is a very, very important part of his overall sense of self and speaks to where do you put your time and effort because we are going to put our time and effort into what we value. And for him, it's value in that relationship so you need to put the work in and I think that those all things sort of very holistically sort of interact and I think it's just but the starting point is saying, this is important. If you never get to that point, it doesn't matter you can have all the tools in the world you can have all the gimmicks in the world. It's no different than the Firefly business, right? I mean, you could have every single recovery modality in the world but if you don't value it, and it's not an integral part of your everyday experience. You've just wasted money. My brother. Do you remember those Nordic tracks skiiers.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Yep, yep.

Darren Treasure :

I remember my brother, he bought one of those. He was very proud of the fact that he bought one of those. Do you know what that Nordic track skier became within like three days?

Anthony Kjenstad :

Clothes hanger?

Darren Treasure :

Without a doubt. So it's like, you know, if you don't really truly value it, it doesn't matter but one of the things I try to get across to my athletes is you have to value recovery, both physically, but also psychologically, because that ultimately is going to give you the opportunity to reach your potential.

Anthony Kjenstad :

And I think you hit it spot on with your children it has to start at that level, right? Because I think one of the negatives of being so competitive as I am an entrepreneurial side is it gets probably fed into your children and we've got them in, you know, club sports and they're working out every day and they're and but there is no real guidance on this whole mental wellness side, mental awareness side and I think we're seeing it more because of this COVID thing. I think coming out of the other side of the tunnel of COVID I think there's gonna be a big focus on the mental health our athletes and, you know, I think there's hopefully going to be a better focus I'm certainly trying to do with our children every day talking about it, but it's just so challenging. I mean, getting the messaging down at the youth level, where I think Firefly could be more beneficial, maybe at the youth athlete, you know, that goes to that weekend tournament and as playing, you know, my daughter would play a volleyball tournament, they pick 12. If they made it to the final bracket, they'd be played 12 games in three days, you know, The attacks on their body, but there's no focus at all on the wellness or even really sleep ans nutrition at a youth level. It's kind of there's so much more work to be done. I definitely think but but even, you know, as I talk even to some of your athletes, speaking to Clayton Murphy one of the things that hit me is you said, Hey, this athlete needs to get up and walk the dog every morning with their, with their significant other that's a big part of their mental recovery. But one of the things that Clayton said to me that was interesting is he doesn't like to have a, he doesn't like to have a rhythm of things he has to do, because what ends up being in Europe, and he likes to have a cappuccino in the morning from Starbucks, and there is no Starbucks and that takes him out of his rhythm. So there's also the opposite as well. Right?

Darren Treasure :

Well, I think that's why you know, having multiple go twos as opposed to one goto Yeah, but just as an aside, amusing story. So I have one athlete I work with and she, she she is very well known think she's superstitious, and very ritualized in the way, she approaches game day and I've tried very, very hard to sort of loosen some of those things up for the very reasons that you just mentioned. So we've agreed to it, we've agreed to disagree. And we now we now talk in terms of she has a very structured routine. But we're trying to have some flexibility within her very structured routine.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's an interesting journey, the deeper you get. The more you know, it's just there's so many different tangents like business, you almost have to stay in your lane to some degree and not make it to variable as well, just because you can find yourself chasing. I'm going to send you a book that I just started reading from Fergus Connolly. I don't know if you know Fergus, he's a PERFORMANCE SPORTS scientists and I'm just early into the book, but one of the big things he's hitting on as well One of the things you focused on is control what you can control. And, and he's got this diagram of what you can control. And it's really only your mental thoughts and how you respond to things. I mean, almost everything else you can have some influence on. But it's, you really have no control. And I know that for myself, but just like seeing the diagram and kind of reading the first chapter, I was like, yeah, you really, you can only control what you you think and how you respond. And I'm assuming that's kind of your messaging to most most your athletes.

Darren Treasure :

Everything else is noise everything else is noise. And we just live in an environment where there's a lot of noise. And there's a lot of externals. And, again, if you can learn if you can recognize that everything around you is just noise and then you can deal with your own inner voice and make sure that that's helping rather than hindering. If you you're, I mean, that's a big part of what it means to be the best you every single day.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Yeah. Well, hey, I appreciate your time. Thanks for jumping on and giving my community a little deep dive into how you help athletes perform at their best. I wish you the best. And we will stay connected as we follow this COVID thing and hopefully we can get back to the regular world soon.

Darren Treasure :

Thanks, Anthony.

Anthony Kjenstad :

Thanks Darren have a good one.

Unknown Speaker :

Well, that wraps up podcast number 9 on my way to 10. I've got a few exciting ones in the book. So I hope you guys continue to listen. Again, if you could go to wherever you listen to your podcasts and hit subscribe, and also leave a comment I'd really appreciate the feedback. I do put all of the notes and links into the notes of the podcast. So if you want to learn how to get ahold of Darren or follow up with any of my other guests or just learned more about what they're doing or their book, recommendations, etc. I put all those links into the podcast.

Anthony Kjenstad :

I do appreciate you guys. continued support, and I hope you have a great day.