The Freelance Playbook

The High Price of Miscommunication [Ep185]

May 24, 2021 Ariel Martinez
The Freelance Playbook
The High Price of Miscommunication [Ep185]
Show Notes Transcript

We're discussing one of the biggest jobs of my career, and how the budget went from $13,000 to a whopping $62,000 due to the lack of communication form all parties. This is an eye-opening episode. 
-----
Support our Affiliates:

_______________________________
iFilmmaker Podcast

_______________________________

Ariel Martinez

Gear used on the show:

Support the show (https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/my/profile)

 Ariel Martinez (00:00): I tried to hide it on somebody that was running. It was a running scene. And we're trying to hide the mic. Yeah, no, and not being able to monitor it. Mike Hernandez (00:10): Can't trust it. Ariel Martinez (00:11): Biggest mistake ever Mike Hernandez (00:13): Really Ariel Martinez (00:14): Biggest mistake ever Welcome him to another episode of the ifilmmaker podcast. My name is Ariel Martinez, Mr. Big, hairy magic Mike. Mike Hernandez (00:27): So when is that gonna go away? I Ariel Martinez (00:29): Don't know. I don't Mike Hernandez (00:29): Know. So Mike Hernandez, but Ariel Martinez (00:33): Hi Mike Hernandez. Mike Hernandez (00:34): Hi guys. Ariel Martinez (00:37): How you doing, man? Mike Hernandez (00:38): I'm doing good man. Ariel Martinez (00:39): Today. I thought we can talk about our setups as freelancers, right? So oftentimes as freelancers, I would say maybe 80%, 75, 80% of our jobs is doing interviews most, a lot of the time I just throw a number out there. I don't know if that's actually, but I know we do a lot of that. Yeah. A lot of interviewing. Yeah. And as freelancers as one man band shooters, um, I'm slowly getting away from that. But I still remember obviously my method, there's always a way that I would analyze what I'm doing and sort of have my method of setting up my productions. Right. Whether it's, uh, putting up a camera, then setting up the audio, then the lighting and or swapped that around, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, so I figured we can discuss that and how we analyzed every single room that we walk into to see what we're gonna start doing. So for example, you get hired to do a shoot. Let's say you didn't do any tech scout. Okay. You're showing up just walking in for the first time. Cool. We I've done a lot of shoots at hotels, right? Where we do interviews. They always get a hotel room. You walk into the room, you have your gear with you. How are you looking at it? Mike Hernandez (01:57): So, um, so it depends on the crew as well. Are we, do we have any crew? Are you just talking about just me, Ariel Martinez (02:03): Yourself, myself Mike Hernandez (02:04): By yourself. Got it. So I always want camera up. I wanna see what, what I'm looking at. Of course it's gonna be not exposed. Right? It's gonna be dark, whatever. I just like to see framing Ariel Martinez (02:14): Wise Mike Hernandez (02:14): Composition. So cause I would hate to set up all these lights and go, yeah, composition com composition here sucks. Let's go somewhere else and then no move all that stuff no over here. And I just, I would hate that because then that cuts into the time with the client and then they start questioning your abilities. So I'd like to work out first, where are we planning on doing this? I look at the sun, I look at the light coming in from the window and uh, think about that. Fill light, you know, I'm always looking for that fill light and then work off of that. So if I can get natural fill light that I don't have to put a light there then. Oh, that I need to, I, this is where my key light's gonna be. Here's where my hair light's gonna be really. So my, my practice and it could change. Okay. For per gig. So it's not always like, it's not one template. All sure. But um, I like to have camera up, look at that. And from there once I'm go, I, I, I sit like I'll have an assistant or someone, anybody sit down in position wherever that's gonna be. And I go, okay. I like this composition. All right, cool. Let's start lighting this. So then I go light number two. Um, audio for me is always last. Um, Ariel Martinez (03:10): Oh yeah, Mike Hernandez (03:11): Me too. Yeah. It's always, it's just, Ariel Martinez (03:12): I actually always forget it, but we'll talk about that in a second. Mike Hernandez (03:16): Um, but yeah, so audio's always last. So for me it it's camera, it's lights and then it's audio. Um, and so, uh, that's where I, you know, defined my lens choice. Yeah. Things like that. Um, and then yeah, once I know my, where my fill light is depending on window and all, whatever there might be, I try to use as much natural light as possible and, and enhance that. Sure. Um, so then I go lights and, uh, stands when I have a crew and I have some people I like to, I like to have a meeting, um, with whatever size crew I have. And let's talk about what, what the, the gist of the whole thing is gonna be and kind of ready, set, go, everyone go at the same time. Um, I'll be focusing on camera cuz that's just, that's what I'm, I'm working on. Mike Hernandez (03:55): And if I'm brought on board to basically second camera or whatever to, to assist, I will make sure that all lights are on stands, all options, whatever that was discussed in that meeting. So that's what I like from my team as well. Sure. So if we talked about, we're gonna have this light, this light, this light, this light. Yeah. Even though we have three other lights, I didn't mention them. Don't get them on. Don't get them prepared, get everything I mentioned prepared, put 'em on stands and we can go from that and have 'em on standby. I like that. Have everything kind of just right there. So I'm always thinking what's the quickest way and safest way we can do this so that when client says go, we're already ready. We're good. We're lit, we're approved. We got monitor up. Um, and so that, that's kind of my, so camera light audio. Ariel Martinez (04:34): It's interesting that you look at, look for the fill light because you is because you're always expecting to put a key light no matter what. Mike Hernandez (04:44): So I typically start now this is subjective obviously, and it can change. But um, I typically like to find out like, what is the natural light I can work around? Um, so if I can minimize the amount of lights I can have on, on a, you know, particular set or interview, um, that's always a plus. Um, but I'd like to know now if there's no light, great, I'll make it, you know, not a problem, but if I have a window light and with great lighting, you have to be careful cuz it changes. Yep. So you can't, you can't just com you know, commit to just that. Um, but uh, sometimes I'll even put a light even like, if it's like a shear, uh, she, what do you call it? Shearers. Yeah. Shearers, um, I'll even put a light in there led, so it doesn't burn, um, just port it. So it's at least some consistency there. Sure. Um, but yeah, I just like to, I like to know what I have available and work around that Ariel Martinez (05:28): One thing I learned from full-time filmmaker park, Wobe, uh, what they practice and this is why it's good to look at everybody else's practice. Cuz you learn things from everywhere. You know, I've learned things from people that I've done this longer than, you know, so it's just, it's always good to always analyze people's work as opposed to criticizing all the time. But anyways, I learned that he puts his key light in the direction of where the, the, uh, the, the natural lights coming in through. Cause like you said, it changes often times. So what, what I like to do, I like to help that key light or natural light wrap around more on my subject and I'm a big fan of one light for a no fill. I'm a big fan of moody shadows. Mike Hernandez (06:18): Yeah. It's Ariel Martinez (06:19): Creative. And most of the time I can get away with it. But sometimes the, the job doesn't call for that sometimes a job calls for fully wrapped, perfect lighting, you know, uh, depends on what you're shooting, but for the most part, I like that. And so I see whether the natural light it's coming and that's where I put my key light and I always try to match that color. That's why it's important to me that my key light be by, by color so that I can always match the right temperature of what sunlight or natural light I have coming in. But like you said, when you walk into a room, you look at the, the vibe, first of all, background, what are we gonna get there? You know? And is it, what can we move? What's movable chairs, uh, all that stuff. How much space, how much depth do we have? There have been times where we've had a beautiful background, but no depth, no space to work in there's and then, uh, there's a ample space, but the background's nothing's working, nothing's driving there. So it's been tough. Mike Hernandez (07:21): I love when we have a ton of depth, Ariel Martinez (07:24): Oh, the space matters. And the more space, the better, uh, well, Mike Hernandez (07:29): One thing, please, everyone needs to do this before, when you walk into a set and you're looking at, or, or not set wherever location, take pictures before, or you move a thing, you will thank me when it's all over most prop, masters or stylist. Um, that's just the given, you know, cuz they're responsible for putting everything back exactly the way it was. But when you're on your own, you're not used to that. Cuz you don't have a department who's handling that. Yeah. Always take a before picture of as many things as you can that you think is gonna move. Cuz I guarantee you when it's over gonna go wait, where was that? Where was that? You know, Ariel Martinez (08:01): I'm very guilty of that. I hardly ever take pictures ever. Um, I just, at the end I was like, I think that's how it was. Yeah. Mike Hernandez (08:12): That's a really good point of looking at your, your surroundings and, and what needs to be moved and Ariel Martinez (08:16): Whatnot. Right? So I, again, it's more work. So the lazy, and this is a given the laser, you are the less nice, I guess you'll have image, right? Yes. So I have found when I put a lot more effort into my sets, meaning I have to move that couch cuz moving that couch, it's gonna make this shot better. And there have in a most recent shoot, it was, this is not a one man band, but it was two people. Two of us, my beat cam op he was another FX nine owner. There was this, it was at a, a beautiful house. And this is the, the, the shot where I had in one of my favorite interviews, we were shooting a light through a window. That's the one that we were able to set up. But that one couch, it's a white couch in front of the beautiful wall of all of their accolades and all that stuff. Ariel Martinez (09:13): We could just see the top of the, of the couch. He wasn't sitting on a couch, we needed depth. So we put him on the middle of the, of the room, but that couch is there and we don't wanna make it look, we wanna make it look like it's a plain nice big wall. We had to move the couch. It was a mission. We had to do it in sections. This was a super high end couch, super high in place. Uh, they said that be previously, that's where they normally do all their interviews when they have CBS coming over and U stations, apparently this is a famous person. Um, but they never move the couch and they always want to. And I'm like, I wanna move that couch. Yeah. So, but man, it ended up being such an amazing shot. One of my favorite interviews of all time that I've ever shot myself. Ariel Martinez (10:00): But if that couch would've been there, it would've been an eye sort. I know it. You know? So the more effort you put into your, your shoots, this is why it's good to have time to do stuff like this, move what you can, you know, take that extra step, take that extra time. That effort move stuff. You're going to love it at the end. If you need to move a bed, if you have the capabilities, obviously. Yeah. If it's not bolted down, if you need to move a bed, move the bed, TV, whatever you have to do. Think of your sets, like, like a blank canvas, anything could be moved around. You know, obviously with permission, you always ask permission to move things. If you're at somebody's house at a hotel, all bets are off. I spend time trying to see if I move kind of like a puzzle piece, kind of like, I don't know what you would call it. Like these little things that if you everything's a prop, really the couch, the practicals. Mike Hernandez (10:57): Yeah. Ariel Martinez (10:58): One thing I highly recommend, you could see if you're watching on YouTube, you could see the lamp here, aperture bulb. We'll link it down below. Yeah. Great to have in your kit because man, you never know when you're gonna be able to put that inside of a lamp socket. That's just laying in a, in the, uh, in the hotel because oftentimes they work, but it's either on or off. And if it's on it's overexposed and blown out. Yeah. It'd be beautiful. You could just dim it down and be able to use it or it's just the wrong color temperature. You wanted a different color temperature or you could just make it a different color. Mike Hernandez (11:34): So like, this is probably aging me right here. But um, on most sets like, well we would do is we'd get a dimer and we would plug the, the lamp into a dimer. Yep. Um, and um, that, that's how we controlled that that's before all of this stuff. And then, uh, and then we would have gels, you know, we would've seen, um, Ariel Martinez (11:49): And that's still ATO did to do it. Mike Hernandez (11:51): Yeah. CDB and CTO and different, you know, different, um, thicknesses. And, but yeah, it's so nice when it's just, you can just, you know, put an app and done Ariel Martinez (11:59): The best thing about that is you could put any color it's RGB and then it's also whatever color temperature you want it to be. Mike Hernandez (12:06): It's getting too easy, man. We're getting lazy with Ariel Martinez (12:09): All this, but you know, what I love about this is that now we can really eat out those people that are really serious about this. And what I mean by that is like before the excuse used to be, everything was too expensive to have. Yeah. So nobody could do this to have a good quality camera to have lights audio. Now it's there for the taking now. It's so simple. Here you go. That's you Mike Hernandez (12:33): Create, the excuses are slowly, Ariel Martinez (12:34): There are no excuses. Absolutely none. So, um, yeah, like you said, and I'm one that I like to take advantage of how easy, because again, one man band stuff, I always try to find the most efficient way that I can work, you know, to get the shot that I want to get it and the nicest way too, you know? So yeah. It's just, that's, that's the name of the game for me. So, uh, working with the budgets that I have, that's what I have to look forward to. But man, so yeah. Moving stuff is, is very valuable to me to, and spend the time to do that. Uh, all right. So back to our sets, we, what is, what determines how much lights you use or what lights you use, Mike Hernandez (13:19): You know, um, at the end of the day it's it's what does the client want? Cuz there's so many styles. There's so many, you know, like I like the moody. I love, I personally love the, the off shadow work, you know, but I've worked with clients. They don't want that. They want it flat. They wanna see it, you know, lit everything lit, no shadows, no shadows. And I'm, I'm having to even match both sorts. So it's like two keys and I'm like, oh gosh, you know, sometimes you just have to do certain things, you know? So I always put here's my here's why you hired me. Right. Because this is what I bring to the table. Sure. At the end of the day, the client makes a decision. I mean, I can't force something on them. They do. They refuse to accept. Yeah. Um, when those things happen, then, you know, you conform and at the end of the day, it's all about what's the style, what's the style guide, you know, I get, um, you get style guides, you get, um, go buys, you get videos, you get stuff like this, a client. Mike Hernandez (14:07): And I always try to push for that by the way, always push for what your look reference. Yes. Gimme reference, give, go buys. Um, and, and then we go according to that. So yeah, just depends on what style then I just bring more, like I try to have more than enough. Every time I come into a set, I would rather always have more than have less. I hate I've had, I've been in a situation before I had to send someone out to go pick up some rental gear that we decided we needed for the shoot. Cuz we just didn't have enough. That is the worst. Cuz that just throws things off. Um, and that's only happened maybe once or twice in eight years. Um, but yeah, so I would say that that would be, that'd be right. My response to that is just what's what does the client want? Ariel Martinez (14:50): Got it. Mike Hernandez (14:51): Now if you're full control and, and it's, whatever you say goes right. Then I go with my typical, you know, like, sure. I love how this, this is moody right here. This looks great. You know, but what are you conveying? What's the story. Sure. You know, cuz EV different lighting, you can live with higher. You've got, you know, you've got RAC, nice. You've got that, you know? Yeah. You've all these different emotions to Ariel Martinez (15:12): Tell scary stories. Mike Hernandez (15:13): Yeah. And so there's different ways to manipulate lights, to give a story off. Sure. Especially in narrative, Ariel Martinez (15:18): But for me it's always all moody. Mike Hernandez (15:21): That's what you get. I'm moody. That's what Ariel Martinez (15:23): I like. I, I that's my own personal preference. Uh, but there have been sometimes where the client says it's a little dark, can we make it a little bit brighter? You know? So, um, Mike Hernandez (15:33): And you're like, yeah, sure. I so up. Yeah. Ariel Martinez (15:35): And then sometimes if the client's not there, I'm taking pictures of the shot and sending it to them. And oftentimes they like it. You know, there have been times where I'm fully set up, the client shows up maybe 20 minutes before the interview and says, this is good, but you know what? Let's try this corner better. Um, like, all right, cool. So, you know, we have to reset. It's not, it's not a, um, a bad suggestion from the client either. Sometimes. All right. Yeah. This works. We'll make it work. Let's see how else I can make this work. If I have to throw a light on that background, things like that. Um, but I mean, that usually typically happens if they want a say in it, but they get there 20 minutes before we have to start rolling. You know? So then I don't have any time to really kind of dress it up if I needed it to. Yeah. So that's, it's unfortunate when that happens. Um, where I just spent the last 35, 40 minutes setting, making this set up, this interview set up real quick and then it comes in like, all right, let's change it to this angle. Let's come to this room or whatever. So I quickly have to reanalyze the room and sort of put the lights and stuff like that. So, but then let's say your camera's set up, your, your lighting is set up. This happens to me so often where, all right. I think we're good. I'll this shot? Ariel Martinez (16:55): Oh, audio. Oh my God. Mike Hernandez (16:59): Oh, are they laugh? Oh, oh, oh wait, wait, wait, I Ariel Martinez (17:02): Need the boom. Where's the boom. So this happens all the time. Yeah. And it's so funny because I cannot emphasize enough on how important audio is on your interviews. So typically I like to give my clients two sources of audio when I possibly can. I like to give a boom option and I like to give a lavalier option personally. I always like the boom option better. Yeah. I'll, I'll get a Russell and it's never gonna be muffled due to it's being concealed inside to shirt. So it's always a clean sound Mike Hernandez (17:38): For interviews, easy, but other things, Ariel Martinez (17:40): Right. It can be difficult. It it's tough. Uh, so I then set up the boom and then, uh, I have to wait for the talent to show up, to see what they're wearing. Yes. To then put the Laier Mike Hernandez (17:54): On. I was on a Walmart shoot and they, the, the, um, the wardrobe department had had all these different choices. They narrowed it down to three outfits. Then they went from there down to one. That's what selected. And I, and I had to learn this when and doing audio, um, get with the wardrobe department ahead of time and start looking at the fabrics and how much noise the fabrics make. Um, that is that's huge. So I was on one where it had to be this one particular, it was the Walmart blue. It was very, it was all this stuff. That thing made so much noise. There's no way around it. Right. It was like paper. Yeah. And I learned from there on out get with the wardrobe ahead of time. So that's one thing to think about too. If you can think about audio and doing everything yourself, get with whoever it is is bringing clothes. Maybe you tell, 'em bring some options, listen to what's best for sound and see if you can push that direction. Ariel Martinez (18:44): Sure. And at the end of the day, the more you do it, the more experience you have with the, of the actual clothing, right? One thing I have found, and it's funny, but hairy people make their hair makes noise, Mike Hernandez (18:58): You know? Oh, I just shave them without, without them knowing, Ariel Martinez (19:00): Just put wax on there. Yeah. This is the mic. Speaker 3 (19:04): Sorry. GOBA, Ariel Martinez (19:06): Take the, take the mic off. Sorry for the noise. One of our neighbors are now deciding to play drums. Mike Hernandez (19:14): This is just like production. The moment we hit. Action. Plane ducks lawnmower. Ariel Martinez (19:19): Yep. Yep. Yep. What are your methods for live leaders? Mike Hernandez (19:22): So, um, I, so I did two, two ways I did to the shirt or I do, um, tape two. So always go right in this cavity, the cleavage, um, right. It's just the spot where, yeah. Especially for females, it really helps cuz Ariel Martinez (19:33): There's a little bit of separation. Mike Hernandez (19:35): Yeah. It's great from the shirt always go there. So also in another method too, it just depends on, on the scenario. I'll bring the cable from the back up by the neck, hidden and come up to the front. Um, there's, there's so many. And then you could, you could research so many different ways of doing this stuff and there's little, little dot. There is another things you can do. Ariel Martinez (19:52): Yeah. Audio putting a Laier on somebody effectively is an Mike Hernandez (19:56): Art. It is. And, and it's uncomfortable for both parties. Yep. And so I did it for like four years straight at the studio and I, you try to break the ice, you know, so my name's Mike, so I'll come up to him and like, Hey guy, Hey, how you doing, man? I'm Mike, I'm doing on the mics. I'm mic on the mic. All right. And then if it's a, it's a really pretty girl which typically models and everything I tell 'em um, Hey, just, you know, and this is the first one I did this with. I just, you know, I'm, you know, I'm married, so we're all good, whatever. And then she's like, yeah, but are you happily married? So from there now I was like, Hey, just, you know, I'm Mike on the mic, you know, I'll be micing today. And I'm very happily married. Okay. So I don't take any pleasure than other than getting great audio. And I do things like this just to kind of just soften the tone and, and just try to get the comfort level. Um, but yeah, just right in here helps. Yeah. Um, to the shirt few times, Ariel Martinez (20:45): What I've been doing lately and oh, obviously this is when I don't have an audio guy, but what I do lately, I just let the woman mic herself up. Right. So especially, it depends on what they're wearing. Uh, I'll ask em, you know, here, look, I have this set up for you. This is, and I use Moskin right from Walmart or, I mean, Walmart, CVS, Walgreens, you can get that anywhere. Um, all cut up and I tell 'em where they, this should be taped. Right. And the direction they should be facing and, you know, I trust them to place it. And I've never had an issue so far. You know, if I hear rusting, obviously they're gonna have to redo it. Yeah. Uh, but I, I personally just my own, I don't tell anybody what to do. Ha how they do their own audio stuff. But personally, I, I choose not to kind of avoid, kind of placing it myself. So Mike Hernandez (21:35): Let me, let me, um, say why though, um, when, when working with professional models and actors sure. That's actually what I was referring to. Okay. There that's totally a normal, but with like the stuff we've been doing with the actual and, and people who are actually like employees. Yeah. I don't, I don't, to be honest, I don't go for it. I don't touch it. I give 'em like what you're saying, full instructions on how to do it. Right. Sure. Sure. But at the end of the day, we're responsible for how it sounds. So I, I try to just confirm, Hey, do you have it like this? Yeah. I totally agree with you Ariel Martinez (22:01): Even that, cuz I don't have experience working with a bunch of models or anything like that. Most of the time it's people that work for the company or just somebody that they got to inter and they need to interview. Um, and that's sort of how I do it lately. I've been practicing a lot of the one that comes around the neck. Right. And then I have no problem getting, getting their shirt collar and sort of trying to stick it somewhere there and that's worked out well. Um, there's more effort that that requires, but again, you know, Mike Hernandez (22:32): I have, um, hyper Elgen, um, tape that I get from B and H. Okay. And then for, for that one, I definitely over the neck, I definitely tape it. So it has a stress relief. Mm. Um, I even do that when it's here in the chest, I do a stress leave on the side. Got it. Um, so the cable doesn't yanked out at any point that just kind of helps. Um, just saw the other day someone was telling me, um, just take the, uh, the, the wire, the microphone right at the tip, like right before the, maybe like three inches off the, the, the actual lab and just do like one of those knots where you just into each other. So it creates, it creates like a little safety right there. A little loop. Yeah. So I was like, Hey, that's cool. I'm gonna try that in my next, my next one. And see how that works. Interesting. Ariel Martinez (23:08): Yeah. Interesting. Mike Hernandez (23:10): But it's an art form Ariel Martinez (23:11): Really? That doesn't hurt the cable. Mike Hernandez (23:12): No, no, you don't tie it tight. It stays a big loop. Ariel Martinez (23:15): Oh, okay. You're Mike Hernandez (23:15): Literally just like folding it Ariel Martinez (23:17): Itself. Mike Hernandez (23:18): Got it. But that's a good point cuz I would never want to kink a cable, especially not Mike cable. Ariel Martinez (23:23): Yeah. That's interesting. But yeah, that's, that's super important to, to be able to practice that and make sure your audio is clean from both signals. There have been a couple times where halfway through the interview, either I get, I start getting hits on the audio for whatever reason there's interference on the lab or the cable. The, that my boom is connected to the XLR. I don't know. There's I hear stars hearing some static. And sometimes that happens if the cables running on top of like a power cable yes. Avoid that. And it's not coded properly if that's not a, this happens to cheaper cables. I I'm starting to realize, yeah, it doesn't Mike Hernandez (24:03): Have the copper coat. Ariel Martinez (24:04): So the better the coding, the better you can avoid that. So I kind of, I, I need to upgrade mine. Um, but's good point. That could happen as well. So when that happens, Ariel Martinez (24:18): Sometimes I have another cable option, but what if that's not the issue? I just wasted this time, switching, swapping cables, um, and this, and I assess it myself for my clients. Sometimes they don't even expect two sources of audio. It's what I like to provide. But then afterwards I'll tell them, listen, we got two sources of audio. However, there's a part where the boom started acting up a little bit, but the lavalier was super clean. So that's easily usable or vice versa. You know, we had a little bit, a few hits, but the, the boom was extraordinarily clean. So, and that's honestly as a backup, that's a good practice to have always to have something you don't wanna put all your eggs in one source. Yes. Uh, but it's, you know, ideally, ideally they should both be perfect, right. But this is where you get an audio guy to take care of that stuff. Um, as a freelancer, this is one of the things where you go above and beyond, right? Sometimes they don't ask for two. Sometimes they just need audio, whatever it is I like to offer two. But um, you know, if for whatever reason something happens, Hey, you gotta either upgrade your cable, upgrade your labs, find that interference, whatever it is you gotta do to fix it, you Mike Hernandez (25:38): Know? And you have another great option with the, um, technical sync Ariel Martinez (25:42): Technical sync also. Oh, so great. Good, good call there. So I have the track ease. So the technical sync track ease is essentially a recorder that you could just put on your talent and it just records. There is no wireless communication happening there. It does have time code and that's kind of how that uses it. But to be honest, I don't use it in that capacity. The way I use the track ease is as a back of it all else for the final thing, if nothing is working, I cannot boom this person cuz they're too far or there's too much space. And the, the lava leaders is having connection issues. And I've had this issue before. I just say, you know what, we're running outta time, put a tracking on them, hit record. Mike Hernandez (26:25): And there's 32 bit float Ariel Martinez (26:26): And it's 32 bit floats. So you don't have to worry about. So Mike Hernandez (26:29): The only worry is is if it's, if Ariel Martinez (26:31): It's, if it's rusting. So that's the part, Mike Hernandez (26:34): Cause you can't monitor it. Right. Ariel Martinez (26:35): I right. I cannot monitor it. Mike Hernandez (26:36): The backup of the backup. Ariel Martinez (26:38): So I had an issue where I had to go to my backup plan, which is a track ease. We had to do that. But the mistake that I made was we tried to hide it. Oh, at that point I would recommend just leave it exposed because I, I, there you don't have to worry about Russell. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Mike Hernandez (26:58): We don't like Mr. Ariel Martinez (27:00): Russell Russell sucks. Mike Hernandez (27:00): We hate Russell on sets. Ariel Martinez (27:02): I tried to hide it on somebody that was running. It was a running scene and we're trying to hide the mic. Yeah. No. And not being able to monitor it. Mike Hernandez (27:13): Can't trust it. Ariel Martinez (27:14): Biggest mistake ever really biggest mistake ever. And we were, we found out in post and we're editing this. Mike Hernandez (27:22): What are, what do you do with that? Ariel Martinez (27:24): So here's the thing we have to use it. We have to, but you're hearing the hit. It's a female running. It's not a male. It's a female biggest mistake. Guys learn from this mistake. Ariel Martinez (27:36): If you have to go back to a recorder only and whatnot, you cannot monitor, expose the mic. Do not try to hide it. If you cannot not monitor it, it's not worth it. So anyways, long story short, we're gonna have to use it. And I'm praying anybody listening to this. If you're an expert in audio editing and post, if we could try to remove some of those hit, like all it is, it's a constant. You could hear the steps, you know, she's bouncing up and down. We can hear the mic hitting every single time she runs every step she makes. I don't know if there's even a possible way to remove that, you know? Mike Hernandez (28:13): Yeah. There's guys that can do it. Ariel Martinez (28:14): I, I, I think there is Mike Hernandez (28:16): GM aerial. If you're that Ariel Martinez (28:17): Guy. Yeah. If you guys have experience or if you know somebody that's really good at that, let me know. Cuz we're actually looking to fix it. We don't have a locked picture, which is why I haven't. Um, I haven't put it out there yet, but once we have a locked picture, I don't want have somebody editing with like a 35 minute run. Yeah. Interview it. Doesn't it's not gonna Mike Hernandez (28:37): Be used. Ariel Martinez (28:37): Exactly. So use little portion. I wanna have a locked picture once we know exactly the parts that we want to use. Yeah. I wanna put it out there. Seeing who can of this, um, who can fix this audio? Mike Hernandez (28:48): Yeah. I had a, um, a coach doing a demo demonstration with a model who not a model, another coach. Who's doing the actual fitness workout. Yeah. And this person's got like a shirt with another shirt and like a sweater on top of that. Right. This coach now everything was good until I realized how much he's gonna be moving and he's all over the play. Oh wow. I mean he's stretching, he's bending down. He's practically doing pushups. He's doing sit-ups all these different things. Yeah. So, um, I had it with, uh, with the mold. Right. I had it with the tape, um, to the chest and you, and then I even had the cap that came with it. Yeah. You know, you put the cap right on top. Yeah. It helped all so much, but it still wasn't enough. So then I got the furry, I put the furry on top of now because he had a heavy sweater. You didn't, you know how sometimes the Furry's they BCH. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can't use them right. To be hidden this time. It, this time it was perfect. Cause it was a sweater and that saved me. It was wow. So then I had another shoot with the same guy where I didn't have it available and I would get hits every once in a while. Oh they were manageable, but I'm like, wow, I need, let me find that, that stupid, you know, raccoon tell the little Ariel Martinez (29:51): Furries Mike Hernandez (29:51): I don't, Ariel Martinez (29:52): The you'd never use, but it's useful for Mike Hernandez (29:54): That way. So after that shoot, I went on Amazon and I just bought a pack of six. Cause I was like, just in case Ariel Martinez (30:00): I reuse that technique. I'm interested to Mike Hernandez (30:02): See if it works. I know some audios guys would be like, like, Hey, that's just too many layers. The quality was still amazing. So that's what I was worried about. The quality still amazing. And it got rid of the noise, you Ariel Martinez (30:12): Know, you know what I found, I find funny audio guys will field recorders for audio text. They know how to lab up and whatnot, but they never handle audio in post ever. I found that to be the case. So how do they know what that's interesting at the end? What is the good audio supposed to sound like? Because what we shoot on camera is not the final product cuz we color this stuff. Mike Hernandez (30:40): Yeah. You know, that's right. And we deal with four and after, right? Yes. A lot of 'em you find out they don't actually do much of that after they Ariel Martinez (30:45): Don't do much. And that's what I have. Look, I, I'm not, I'm not well versed in the, in the, in the industry of each individual, like audio texts, uh, gaffers, like I don't know their jobs a hundred percent. Mike Hernandez (30:58): Yeah. All the audio texts are writing right now. What that's BS, what, Ariel Martinez (31:01): What Mike Hernandez (31:02): I do, but Ariel Martinez (31:03): Um, just about most of the audio guys that I've worked with, at least yeah. They tell me they don't do post. Yeah. Which Mike Hernandez (31:10): I asked one of the guys, um, and he, he charges pretty good, which is, and I know he's really good. And he said that he's had enough experience, like, like talking with the editors to find out that everything was fine. And he's had that happen so many times that he now knows his age. Sure. Of what he considers good and bad is it works. And that's how he gauged it. Not that he edit it, but he would get feedback. Ariel Martinez (31:30): But the problem is the feedback is coming from a one objectively skilled person. That's true. What if the next person that's handling this doest know how to handle that. Right. It's Mike Hernandez (31:41): Just so interesting cuz we think, Ariel Martinez (31:43): And Mike Hernandez (31:43): Then we color. Right. And we see the, after we deal with the whole process. Ariel Martinez (31:46): Right. And that's where I think, and you hear this all the time. The best directors are the ones that know how to edit. They know how to light, they know how to audio. They, they know the whole process. Right. And again, Hollywood aside, we're talking about VI video production businesses. Right. The people that know it takes the people that know that if they say we can fix it in post, they can fix it in post. Yes. Right. Yeah. Um, if I'm on one of my sets and I say, let's fix it in post. I know because I've been there and I've done that before, you know, uh, I, you say that by the way, Mike Hernandez (32:20): But you know, the range, Ariel Martinez (32:21): You know, you know the range of what you can work and what you Mike Hernandez (32:24): Can't, you always ask, one of the things you always ask is, Hey, is there gonna be music on this? Right. That's one of the first things you ask. Right? Ariel Martinez (32:30): Yeah. And so that, that, I always found that interesting that they don't do post production Mike Hernandez (32:36): Observation. Yeah. Ariel Martinez (32:38): Oh and, and I wonder why is it because they lose? I mean, if, Hey, if they're working so much that they, they just can't, it's not something that they're looking to Mike Hernandez (32:46): Do. Well, how often do you send your audio off to an engineer to work on? So that maybe the opportunity's just not Ariel Martinez (32:52): Maybe I know, I know a lot of my friends do they send off their audio to be worked on by actual audio, uh, specialist Mike Hernandez (33:00): I've had do it twice. That was it. Ariel Martinez (33:03): I'm sorry. Mike Hernandez (33:04): I've only had to do it twice. Send it off to auditor. Ariel Martinez (33:06): I don't think I've ever done that. And, and, and I want to do it. Uh, my, my, my guy, Julian jar has actually pushed me to do that. Cuz he said once he started doing that, his stuff has been coming out. Amazing. That's great. Um, so you pay, what is it? Four or 500 bucks for an audio guy to work on your audio on certain projects and it comes out solid. Yeah. It comes out like mastered everything. Perfect. You don't have to Mike Hernandez (33:31): Worry about it. Ariel Martinez (33:32): Yeah. I'll be honest. I don't really do much work on my audio. Um, when, on my own projects that I do for my clients, but maybe it's something I would look into. I have Mike Hernandez (33:42): A, a whole like thing that I do with Adobe audition. Yeah. And it's, it's a, I love it for me. It's been working great. Yeah. Yeah. I get a lot out of it. Ariel Martinez (33:50): So speaking of audio, that is actually something when walking into a room, huh? We need to listen for. Mike Hernandez (33:57): It's a very good point. Another thing that's an oversight. Yeah. Ariel Martinez (33:59): It's a, it's a big oversight because we look at lighting. We mentioned lighting a lot earlier. Uh, we mentioned composition and camera placement and directions and uh, practicals and all that stuff. But the sound of the room is extraordinarily important. You know? So as I mentioned, sometimes the shot is better and one room, but there's more depth than another. Sometimes it's better in one room, but there's better sound in another. What do you con what would you prefer? A better shot or better sound, Mike Hernandez (34:36): Better shot? Um, I'm also, I'm also very biased. Like even in a notice, someone who's like only like camera department, you go to their house, they'll have a big TV, a horrible sound system. You go to audio guy, you go to, they'll have a tiniest little TV and an amazing sound system. It's like, it's what you prefer. So that's funny. Um, cuz I feel like I can, I can manipulate audio a little bit more than what I'm stuck with working with on visually. So like I can put sound blankets down, which I, I do that. I put sound blankets down, it's an interview and you don't see the floor, at least in the front where the voices are. I like that. I put it on the side if I can control it and doesn't mess up my lighting. Right. You know? Right, right. Um, so I can, I feel like, but the video there's only so much you can do. And I feel like it's just such a priority. Sometimes people will see before they even hear anything depending on what, where it's going, where it's landing. Um, but yeah, I feel like I can manipulate with sound blankets and do something. Ariel Martinez (35:22): I think I agree. And even though I have always said, you can forgive bad video with good audio, but you cannot forgive bad audio with good video on the final product. Right. So that's, I've always said that Mike Hernandez (35:37): So good. Ariel Martinez (35:39): Now here's the thing, when it comes to you on set fully experienced, you know what to expect, you know that the audio's better in the other room, but this shot looks way better. Right. So according to what I said, somebody might take that and, and say, let's just go with the better audio. However, like you just said, if you know how to treat the room to make it sound better with better mic placement and maybe you can send it off to somebody that can really work on that audio, it might be worth it to get that better shot, you Mike Hernandez (36:13): Know? Yes. But if I get stuck in a room with an AC unit, Ariel Martinez (36:17): Oh yeah. Mike Hernandez (36:18): There's it passes the threshold of where I'm comfortable with. Sure. Ariel Martinez (36:21): I'm out. Yeah. Yeah. Mike Hernandez (36:22): I'd rather just have some something else Ariel Martinez (36:24): That doesn't look as pretty. Yep. Mike Hernandez (36:25): Yep. So, you know, there's variables to it. Ariel Martinez (36:27): Yeah. Yeah. How, how much are you willing to risk the audio for that shot? You know, so that's, that's the thing there, to Mike Hernandez (36:34): Be honest, I'm not willing to risk it. If the audio's gonna be that bad, I'm not willing to risk it. Cause it, it without good audio, it's like, it's junk, to be honest, you can't use it. Ariel Martinez (36:45): I saw this was years ago. I took the red education course. Uh, when I was working a lot with the red dragon when it was more prominent, um, I took the course and I'm, and I've networked. I met a lot of red and whatnot, cool people, all that stuff. And we sit in contact and one of the guys there, after that, they released it. Like they I've been seeing them on social media, posting a lot about this film that they're working on a passion project, they're loving it. And he shoots on red, he's a red owner. So he finally released it and set it up, put it in a, in a local theater for release so that people can see it and go watch it. And um, I didn't go to the, the, that theater, but then I saw it when he released it online and whatnot. So I took a look at it and uh, Ariel Martinez (37:35): Oh man, I was, I was embarrassed for him. Put it that way. It was, I don't know how to say it. I could not believe that this was shot on a red it's like, so they shot it knowing the capabilities that you can change things in post like white balance and stuff. A lot of the interviews I could tell the, I could see the quality of the red, but it's like, didn't do any kind of color correction, no color grading. I see this red cast on this one interview, then a blue cast on the other, the white balance was awful everywhere, but to make matters worse, I can tell that you're in an, the most equalist room ever. And it sounds like you're using an on camera microphone. Mike Hernandez (38:22): Oh my God. I scratch audio. Ariel Martinez (38:24): Holy cow. Geez. Um, Mike Hernandez (38:27): I wonder if it was one of those things where like the audio got deleted, so holy Ariel Martinez (38:33): Camera. I couldn't. So I couldn't believe, and so I told him respect, I didn't say break it down like this, but I did tell him like my thoughts cuz he asked me and respectfully I told him everything. He was like, yeah, I gotta work on that. I gotta get better on that. But I guess it, I was under the impression that he knew what he was doing. He's a red owner. Right. Mike Hernandez (38:54): He just think owner, you think Ariel Martinez (38:55): Exactly. He took the education course, which ain't cheap by the way. Wow. I think it's like 1500 bucks to take that course. And it's a two, two day course two to three day course. But man, I was like, so disappointed. You Mike Hernandez (39:09): Know, it's funny though, cuz there's different perspectives on this. Like you can take a, a consumer camera. Yeah. And if you know lighting and good audio, you can make that look phenomenal. Oh yeah. You know, so it's, it's the skill. It's not just the gear you own. It's the skill you have. Ariel Martinez (39:25): Yeah. It's not about the camera. I mean yeah, yeah. That's exactly what it is. But again, let's say right. Put it this way. Even if it was a nice shot, good image edge. Well balanced, white balanced, whatever that audio alone was so bad that the entire thing was Mike Hernandez (39:42): You can't focus on it. Right. Oh the thing about great audio is it's it's, it's truly great when you're not having to pay attention to it. That's when it's phenomenal. Yeah. It doesn't doesn't favor the people who put all this time in, because it's, it's when don't notice it is that it's Ariel Martinez (39:57): Phenomenal. Same thing for lighting, same thing for lighting, you can notice a beautiful picture. But if your goal is to get a natural looking picture where you don't see the harsh shadows coming on one direction or the other, or maybe you do, but it looks normal as if it's lights from the ceiling, you know, but it's one direction. Mike Hernandez (40:16): We, we were just shooting on a golf of course. And we had the sun coming from one direction. Sure. But then we had this HMI light and with the diffusion that was put in front of it, it was just, it was a Hampshire frost and it just, it was too contrasting. We caught it. Yeah. And we're like, just, that just doesn't look like it would be natural. Ariel Martinez (40:30): I can clearly see that there's a light hitting. Mike Hernandez (40:31): Yeah. So then we, you know, we put a two 16 on there and boom. It just look perfect. Yep. Ariel Martinez (40:37): Yeah. Yep, yep. Yeah. That all works. And um, or sometimes the harsh lights where you have a, the perfect spot is where there's one light on the ceiling that's hitting down and it's way too harsh. And you have your lighting set up, but I could still see a slight raccoon eyes coming in there and then the shadow from that light. And sometimes we oversee that stuff. Mike Hernandez (41:00): Yeah. Ariel Martinez (41:01): And then if you take the time to get a flag to cover that light or gaff that light or whatever you can do to stop that light from coming down and hitting, touching your subject, you know, Mike Hernandez (41:12): We were shooting at orange theory, fitness. You ever been in one of the gyms. Yeah. So premium membership gym. It's phenomenal. Yeah. But it's all orange in there. Yeah. And we were doing a shoot for them. Ariel Martinez (41:20): It's the worst place to shoot Mike Hernandez (41:20): And, and they, you know, they like it, they, they, they run with the concept, but for this particular place, with their guidance, they didn't want it to be so, so we wanted to control it. So we would just, we, we found ourselves putting trash bags, layered trash bags on the three on the, um, I dunno, it was like six different because all their ceiling lights are orange and they're like about that big right there. So what is that like about what is that three? Uh, two. Yeah. About three feet wide. All the way around. And so we had to get trash bags and get ladders and cover them up and you gotta do what you gotta do. You can't turn off the house lights. Not there. No. It was a strip that we were on. They couldn't do it. Yeah. So we had to garbage bag them. Mike Hernandez (41:56): Yeah. They can't turn off the house. I'm not saying they can't, this is a headquarters. So maybe because it's headquarters, it's not like a functioning real gym. It's their model gym where they test everything out. It's weird. But I don't wanna talk negative about them, but um, it's no, they it's sucks. Just kidding. It's fine. Cut that part. Yeah. No, but so sometimes you'll be in situations where you just gotta find a way. So normally what we would do is we would get a sand, uh, sorry. A C stand, want an arm and a flag, a black flag, solid, a solid flag. And just put right up against the light. If you, if it's not in the shot, that helps. There was a big shoot though. I did where we had to flag so many, the gaffer had to flag so many sea, the lights that he ran out of. Mike Hernandez (42:35): 'em and there was still this one that was hitting our subject. Oh no. So he got, I don't know what they call it. I know it's an apple box, but it's a very thin one. So he picked one of those up, put it on pink. The pancake is the, is the thinnest pan there's pancake quarter. There's like this right here. So that's a half. Oh, that's a quarter. Okay. So he got that and he put it on that clamp, the Carini and then he put that up and used it to block the lights that, Hey, I mean, it worked it's a little heavy, but it worked it, you know, they got a C stand put sandbags everywhere. Nice. Well, but uh, that's see that. That's a little scary though, cuz if that falls away and that was right over, that was over. I let's just, I do not recommend that one, but it worked, it worked recommend write over our subject doesn't matter. Mike Hernandez (43:19): But it was if could fall was up pretty high. Yeah. I wouldn't, I just wouldn't recommend it. So what you do with that is you just get a foam core. If you have foam core or anything, that's like a, um, you know, poster board, any like that, that would, that would help. That would be better than a quarter. I mean, they, they had ran out of all their flags. Cause we had flag. No, I hear you mights already. You gotta do what you gotta do. It was a beautiful restaurant capital grill. If you're in Miami delicious place. Is that where we're going today? Right now? Maybe. Okay. I don't know. Yeah. McDonald's this guy, but anyways, this is great, man. It was great convers lot from your stories. I'd learned a lot from yours, man. This is, this is Speaker 4 (43:54): A match habit Speaker 5 (43:55): Right here. Just come on right Mike Hernandez (43:57): There. Okay. All right. Well anyways, thank you guys for watching this episode of the iPhone maker podcast. If you wanna follow either one of us, we're putting links to our Instagram down below on Facebook, our website, I filmmaker podcast.com. You can all, all that stuff. It's is it gonna be on MySpace? It's on MySpace. I have to ask is Tom, if he's gonna allow us to, is Tom still alive? I think he is interesting. Anyways. Thank you guys for watching this episode and we'll catch you on the next one later.