May 6, 2024 Season 4 Episode 26
Minnesota, United States: Hope Flanagan (Seneca) is Noodinesiikwe (Little Wind Woman) from the turtle clan. She comes from the people of Tonawanda, Seneca Reservation. Her interconnectedness with nature informs her work with young people. She brings a deep respect and authentic style of storytelling as a means of gifting knowledge and wisdom to help others. Her gift is the same for you.
Accessibility Options: Watch the unedited video interview with subtitles or read the edited podcast transcript by visiting this podcast's web page.
May 6, 2024 Season 4 Episode 26
Minnesota, United States: Hope Flanagan (Seneca) is Noodinesiikwe (Little Wind Woman) from the turtle clan. She comes from the people of Tonawanda, Seneca Reservation. Her interconnectedness with nature informs her work with young people. She brings a deep respect and authentic style of storytelling as a means of gifting knowledge and wisdom to help others. Her gift is the same for you.
Accessibility Options: Watch the unedited video interview with subtitles or read the edited podcast transcript by visiting this podcast's web page.
At one point, I had a position at the University of Minnesota in an honorarium for working in journalism. And there was an opportunity that came up that would be, well, do you want to work with young people up near the Boundary Waters and this was in the 70s. But I was told if I did that, that I would not be able to work in journalism after that. That would be the end of that. And it was like, Okay, that's all right. I know which one I would rather do.
Paul Meunier:Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association, and I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I, I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker. Hi, everybody, I'm truly excited to introduce our guest, Hope Flanagan, from beautiful Minnesota here in the United States. She is much more than an average community youth worker. She's a guardian of Earth's wisdom. From her earliest days, Hope knew her life path would be intertwined with the nurturing of young minds and spirits. But what truly sets her apart is her deep-rooted connection to the Earth and its inhabitants. For Hope youth work isn't about her achievements, though there are plenty of remarkable ones to go around. It's about her heartfelt approach to understanding our interconnectedness. In a world often disconnected from nature's rhythms, Hope has always found solace and guidance in the woods, in the whispers of the wind, in the songs of the birds, and all its abundance it provides. Since 1976, her journey as a youth worker has been more than a career. It's been a sacred mission to nurture, guide, and teach with an Earth-centered wisdom that resonates compassion. For this episode, we have the privilege of diving into Hope's story where every plant, every breeze, and every living creature plays a part in shaping her mission to support and uplift our young people. Get ready to be inspired as we explore Hope's true-hearted approach to life and learning. Welcome to the podcast, Hope.
Hope Flanagan:Thank you. It's good to be here.
Paul Meunier:Well, it's wonderful to have you and I'm super eager to learn more about you and your story. So, are you ready to jump in and get going?
Hope Flanagan:Well, I'm a bit overwhelmed by your introduction. I'm just trying to do whatever I can to support the Earth and the young ones that are here.
Paul Meunier:Well, you do a remarkable job and I don't feel like that was over the top at all, because we've gotten to know each other and spend time together. And I truly am impressed with the oneness and the wholeness and the approach that you bring to our young people. I truly admire it. And I truly think it's inspiring. So, I hope you'll just accept it for what it was. It's my interpretation of you. How's that?
Hope Flanagan:Thank you.
Paul Meunier:You're welcome. Alright, let's start this off and just kind of backing up to when you were younger as a child, what was life like for you Hope, when you were a young child?
Hope Flanagan:For me, I found that sometimes it was challenging inside the house. And there could be things going on that were difficult. And I found that it was more substantial, dependable, less scary to be out in the woods. So, it was a gift that we lived near woods always and that we could go out there and be around the plants, the trees, the birds, the insects. Everything out there was welcoming and dependable.
Paul Meunier:Yeah, I could see how you would find solace in that. And then did somebody teach you all that or was that just instinctive for you to want to spend time enjoying nature?
Hope Flanagan:Well, back in those days, I was lucky enough to have my mom who would send us out there when we didn't have like chores to do or something we had to do. My sister and I would, I especially, would be spending time in the woods and she would too. There was always something to do out there.
Paul Meunier:Yeah. What kind of things did you like to do? I mean, were you into trying to identify different plants or learn about different things, or did you just like being out there?
Hope Flanagan:it. So, I remember doing that, and then we would have different things like I remember going out and picking like it would be time for the wild plums to be ready or the hazelnuts were ready. So, we'd go out and we'd gather. And I just love doing that. It was always like finding something new and looking at something in a new way, when things would be revealed when I would be out in the woods.
Paul Meunier:I bet. So, your mother must have known and spent time in the woods herself, or somebody taught her about things. Because if you could bring any plant to her, she must have known an awful lot about nature.
Hope Flanagan:I feel like she did. I know I remember my mom and my uncle, they would have a paper tacked to the wall. And it was they would the way they would communicate is Who did you see? Or what did you see? And it was usually, you know, some kind of a bird, you know, that had come through. So, we were always looking at what kinds of birds we would see when. You know, I remember I was paying attention to March 15 was when the robins would return and the flickers would return. So, then you'd watch you know, the whole season of who was coming, who was going, or what was going on outside. It was wonderful in the spring to watch when the woodchucks would have their little ones or when you would see, oh, gosh, different kinds of plants coming in blooming. So, it was a beautiful way to pay attention to things that were going on out in the woods.
Paul Meunier:Yeah, there really is a rhythm to everything that Mother Nature has to provide to us. And if you tune in, pay attention to it, it's much more than there's just snow on the ground. It's a very complicated web, right?
Hope Flanagan:Yes, it's a challenging time. And I'm seeing a lot of our teenagers struggling with that now, too, because with climate change and things that humans have done, that there's a disruption in that. So, I get concerned that our young ones have that. I mean, they're connected, they can feel it. And so with this problem with I see it every single day, going out in the woods and seeing oh, gee, yesterday I was noticing like a decrease in water. And of course, the peat moss I was looking at, it was really struggling. And some of the what we call swamp tea was having a really hard time. So, you look and see how is everything getting affected because it's so intertwined. And it affects all of us. It affects the young ones, they notice it too.
Paul Meunier:I agree. There's a lot of anxiety about climate change, especially in the younger generations, and rightfully so. They're the ones that are going to face the biggest consequences of what's going on. But back to your childhood, when you were young you were born in upstate New York and part of the Seneca Nation. Is that right?
Hope Flanagan:Yes, we were in a little area called Bridgeport. And we lived in an area where there was apple trees and quince trees and cherry trees. And I remember walking to a canal and following my mom over to the canal. So, I remember picking from the apple trees and quince trees and cherry trees and seeing the life that was around us. So, that was a gift.
Paul Meunier:Yeah, wonderful. You, you were always tuned into nature from a very early age, it's clear to see. And then your family moved or you moved to Wisconsin when you were six, is that right?
Hope Flanagan:Five.
Paul Meunier:Five. Okay, do you want to talk a little bit about that? How come your family moved? What was the reason for that?
Hope Flanagan:Well, there was definitely challenges in the family life that were pretty, pretty intense. My mom had lost two sons. And there were big challenges with that situation. So, there was a lot of negative things going on where my dad moved away. And we stayed back for two years, but then we had to move because we were told you have to be with that family structure. So, that was hard. Because you know, that was in the late 50s. Well, yeah, late 50s. So, you know, it was difficult back in those days.
Paul Meunier:I bet and then so you, your mom, and your sister moved to Wisconsin?
Hope Flanagan:Yes.
Paul Meunier:Did you ever see your dad after that?
Hope Flanagan:Well, I know I mentioned to you earlier it was a really difficult time. There was some legal stuff that was involved. There was definitely things that made the inside of the house very scary and it had long term effects on the family. It wasn't a safe place to be. You know, I think young people experience that. And then when they get older, you know, you usually go through that really, really trying difficult time of trying to reconcile with what happens, you know, like to find a way to have some sense of self-esteem and not crash and burn. I see a lot of young people that go through challenges when they're young, or really dysfunctional family situations, and then are not able to ever get out of that. So, I see that over and over again. I think the only way that I've been able to do something outside of that is to try to turn some of those challenges into an avenue where I can work with young people that have gone through a lot of those same kinds of things, sometimes much worse, sometimes the exactly the same. It's, especially for Native folks, I see it over and over and over again, where, you know, you couldn't expect to get help from social services. I know my mom thought we were going to be taken away. So, we were given matching necklaces, my sister and I. I still have my necklace. And you know, because if we were taken away and put in different homes, we would always want to be able to identify each other. And that was one way we felt, I felt and I think she felt that we would be able to find each other again.
Paul Meunier:Wow, those were tough times. And when you're young, sometimes we don't realize what we're going through, it just seems like it is what it is because you don't know a whole lot to reference it against. But looking back at it now, how did all those experiences in your childhood, how did they shape you? And how did they form you to who you are today? What kind of influence did they have?
Hope Flanagan:Well, I was grateful that my mom and my
Paul Meunier:So, your mother encouraged you to learn, do sister and I we had each other, and that support and that nudge to try to excel despite whatever anything else was going on. The whatever you could to kind of be self-sufficient maybe? Or do three of us were definitely involved in like, learn as much as you can, and be aware of what's going on around you. I know I can only speak for me at this point. But it was an important thing you know, to just be aware and do whatever you could to stay in tune with how can you support the ones what you could do to protect yourself. So, you went to around you? Or just the environment as well you know. Because we all kind of focused in on that. school. Was school easy or hard for you? I know you've got a degree so but what was school like, coming from your favorite place into the woods to sitting as a Native American person in a school desk? What was that like for you?
Hope Flanagan:Well, it certainly wasn't an easy thing. I think, I think a lot of our young ones to feel that today, where you're in a situation where you don't feel like you fit in ever, you know. So, I definitely see that, where the young ones get in situations where they don't feel like they fit in. And sometimes it's really scary for them, you know, which understandably, it's scary. Sometimes it's threatening. I know for me, I mean, there didn't seem to be many options. It's like, Well, are you going to be an extreme people pleaser or are you going to really, really suffer, you know? So, those were kind of the choices back then. And I know I tried my best to fit in despite whatever was going on at home, or whatever challenges we were facing.
Paul Meunier:Well, you certainly must have learned how to navigate pretty well, because you've done well for yourself. And you also have been supporting young people for a long time. At what point in your life did you realize this is something I'd like to do? Young people are important to me. I'd like to do what I can to give back. When did you notice that?
Hope Flanagan:There was a number of times. I remember, oh gosh, early on being asked to do some work with young people out in the woods like Oh, of course, you know, how fun is that? At one point, I had a position at the University of Minnesota in an honorarium for working in journalism. And there was an opportunity that came up that would be, well, do you want to work with young people up near the Boundary Waters and this was in the 70s when you know, things had just sort of stabilized a bit up in the Boundary Waters that you know, it was being set aside and things were things were not quite such a hotbed of controversy. So, I was really fortunate. But I was told if I did that, that I would not be able to work in journalism after that. That would be the end of that. And it was like, okay, all right, I know which one I would rather do. So, it was really clear then.
Paul Meunier:Well, that's a wonderful story. And you've never looked back, it was a pretty clear decision for you to make. And you've just kept forging forward trying to find new ways and new young people to help find their own way in their own life. That's really cool. Thank you for sharing your background with us, Hope. It has been really helpful getting to know you, and understanding your connection as to what you know, Earth and everything around it.
Hope Flanagan:I want to say also, though, that I've always had elder ladies too, that I could go to, and I still, I still go to elder ladies in the community and ask questions, and ask for guidance. So, I never have, you know, just thought, hey, I know stuff. It's not really about that. To me. It's more like seeking guidance. And it's always about that. It's about every single day doing your thank yous and putting your thank yous down and every single day asking to the Creator, to the Spirits, What do you want me to do today, you know, and then clarifying that if you don't get clear direction, you know, go find one of the ones that you can help, an elder that you can help. And they'll help, you know, guide you to what you can do to be of service. So, that's the important thing.
Paul Meunier:Do you have ESP because that's what I wanted to talk to you about, your work with young people and your search for knowledge and truth. And we do have to take a short break, so we'll be right back.
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Paul Meunier:Hope, right before the break, we were talking about how you gain your knowledge and gain your wisdom and you seek it out from other people. Who are your go-to people now in your life where you seek wisdom and truth and understanding from?
Hope Flanagan:Well, I've always had elder ladies, like I said, and I definitely go to groups of people. There's a Ogiimaagwanebiik Nigigoonsimiinikaaning up in Canada, I'm so thankful. Today I was with a group in the Ojibwe immersion classroom with the little bitty ones. And those are teachers too. You know, those little ones they just came here from the spirit world. So, they're full of knowledge and understanding and clarity. And I feel like I get to learn from them. I'm learning all the time from, you know, spending time and watching what's going on around me. I also go to 12-step meetings. That really helps me. I just went to one today, like I usually do. I know I've got quite a bit of time in the 12-step arena. But that to me is a helpful way to stay clear and get guidance.
Paul Meunier:You have a real growth mindset, you're always looking to learn, aren't you?
Hope Flanagan:I'm trying.
Paul Meunier:And I love what you said about how you learn from young people. I think that is so very true. If we pay attention, they will teach us so much. What do you think you've learned from young people in all your years? What have they taught you about yourself?
Hope Flanagan:Oh my gosh, they are teaching me all the time, almost on a daily basis. When I'm around the teenagers, you'll get certain lessons, around the little ones, you'll get other lessons. Gosh, the little ones today I was with two-to-five year olds in the immersion classroom and we were teaching them how to make the offering that you do on a daily basis to say thank you, you know. And watching them doing things that might be hard for those two-to-three year old hands but they're doing that with an understanding of that you always express gratitude, you know. So, watching them work on that. The little bitty ones and watching the other ones around me that really want to learn the language, like the women in the classroom too that are learning the language and learning that mindset about like, in the Ojibwe immersion classroom, you always have to think about what is alive. There really isn't like, he said this or she did that it's this living being and that living being, and the whole language is structured around the living nature of everything around us. And what's your relationship with that living being.. So, it might be a plant, a tree, and insect, a bird, might be a human, but just really, you might look at it in terms of Niijibimaadiziik, my fellow living beings. So, you might be looking in terms of today we were doing a lesson about what rabbit was doing. Of course, rabbit could change his form and do all sorts of different things. But he was doing something that a human would normally do. You know, it's like, yeah, we don't have to be obsessed with this human form. Because we're all part of that fabric of life, not just the ego of humanity.
Paul Meunier:I love that perspective so much, thinking of every living thing as a, as a being, and regardless of what it is, and we're all interconnected. You must be thought of as an elder. What are the young people, do they do they seek guidance and seek advice from you willingly, or where are young people at today in their willingness to accept guidance from you and in stories and wisdom.
Hope Flanagan:Gosh, this year, the stories were passed on to me from an elder at Ponemah Minnesota from the Red Lake reservation. Ona Kingbird passed these stories on to me, and I was so fortunate that she, she passed stories on to me. So, this year, I think I'll have to count, but it was over 30 different instances where it's like, will you come and tell stories because the stories can only be told when there's snow on the ground. And, yeah, we have some young ones like where I'm working now, I work at Dream of Wild Health, and I was really proud of the young ones that were willing to go up in front of people and either lead with a story, one or the Aadizookaanag, or to try to act out one of the stories. So, to try to get that those old stories and all those old things embedded in their hearts and in their beings. That's really important. And then even today, with those little ones, they pass on that tradition of like, if you want to know something from an elder, you gift them something or if they gift you something they get, you get something back. So, a teaching is just as important as, you know, any physical thing. A lot of times it's way more important than any physical thing. But like today, we were showing the little ones, we're doing that with what they were making the offering. And then yesterday, one of my coworkers did the same thing too. I was teaching her about plants. And right away, she gave me her earrings to show yeah, you gave me a gift. And I'm like, wow, that's old style. You know, like, that's what you're supposed to do if somebody is teaching you, then you gift them back. But not everybody always remembers that, you know. I'm always doing, forever doing references for young people. Or if somebody's struggling like going through treatment or something like that, I'm being asked to do prayers a lot nowadays, like for wakes, or family members that are struggling, like, I'll be asked to do that kind of thing. So, if I can be useful, that's the whole thing of why are we here on this Earth but to trust the Creator, learn, and help each other, help all the living beings.
Paul Meunier:That's beautiful, Hope. It really is. And I love that idea of storytelling as a gift. And that sharing of wisdom, that sharing of insight that you gain through experiences and often gained from other people sharing that story with you, right? And I gotta believe there's so much hunger for that kind of stuff in our young people today, because you don't know what to believe anymore. With fake media and deep fakes and all the kinds of things, you don't know what's true anymore. And I gotta believe they look at you and say, here's a person we can trust and this story that she's sharing with me, I have to reciprocate and give something back. But it's to help me. They gotta, they gotta believe you're there to help them. Is that right?
Hope Flanagan:I had a beautiful experience. We've been taking the younger ones out to the sugarbush because part of our work at Dream of Wild Health is to get them to learn about food and food sovereignty, to learn how to grow your own food or go out in the bush and pick your own food, find your food. But to be responsible for, you know, how do people feed each other and feed themselves? We were out at the maple sugarbush two weeks ago. And I was with a group of the teenagers. And I was so proud of those young ones, because it's easy to stop with blame and say, oh, somebody destroyed this Earth and that's why it's too warm, you know, that kind of thing. But then you have to go past that, and not get stuck with resentments. But go into, okay, now what can we do with how things are right now, you know? So, I was really impressed with the young ones. One young lady said, We've got to stick together, we've got to support each other. Which is just like the trees, the maple sugar trees. They were doing pretty good even though it's a severe drought, because they were, they were connected. And they were supporting each other. And they were supporting all the little babies that were underneath them that were maple trees, but probably other things, too, through their root connections, mycorrhizal connections to all kinds of like, support that these biodiversity depends on. The next young man said, realization. I said, What do you mean by that? And he said, Look at the truth of it, you know, spend time really looking at what's going on, don't be in denial, and don't you know, like, lie to yourself about, oh, nothing's going on, the weather's just fine, there's no climate issues. That's ridiculous, you know, because then you can't face and find solutions. And the last one, she said prayer, and gratitude. And I thought, Wow, that's pretty amazing to hear a teenager say that nowadays. So, I was really grateful for that, you know, that young ones that are thinking like that. I do believe that Native folks have a little bit of a step up in that we've just recently been through some really, really rough stuff. So, we know about how do you survive when another group of people has cut down all the trees on your reservation and there's no trees anymore? And, oh, maybe there's no water anymore because water rights is such a big issue on a lot of reservations. So, you know, like, how do you survive under these, you know, challenging circumstances. So, you know, it's interesting because you'll see that, that a lot of times that Native respect for whatever it is on the land, and the biodiversity that is in the land, supports the biodiversity that's around us.
Paul Meunier:I share your sense of optimism for the totality of our young people today. They seem to be tuned in to what's going on. And hopefully, we'll start righting some of the wrongs, especially as it comes to climate and taking care of Mother Nature and respecting all the abundance that it gives us if we just pay attention to it. So, thank you for sharing that story. And I think about you and my short relationship I've had with you and I think about how I want to say you're humble. But I think it's different than that. I don't even think humble is in your vocabulary, you're just so real and down to Earth and grounded and stationary, that humble is something you try to do. I don't think you try to do any of this. I think you're just naturally a beautiful person, and you've spent your entire life trying to share it with other people. And for that I am super grateful that you've committed so much of your life, to passing on to young people the beauty of what's around them. And on behalf of our listeners all over the world, thank you for all you do. And thank you for being a guest on The Passionate Youth Worker podcast.
Hope Flanagan:Thank you. And thank you for speaking with me today. What a gift.
Paul Meunier:It was fun. And I am the receiver of the gift. I guess it's mutual. If I learned anything from you today, it's mutual. But I think I'm the lucky one. Before we go, what words of wisdom or inspiration, would you like to leave with our listeners today, Hope?
Hope Flanagan:I would say this isn't all there is, this physical world. So, I didn't create this world. Creator created it so whatever happens next, we were the last ones here, not the first. I mean, first there was Earth and the plants and the insects and the animals. And then the very last ones are the humans. So, the teaching is in that particular lesson. And I think science pretty much does the same thing is we're supposed to be learning from our elders, you know. And there's been times when things were wiped clean and started over, you know, with floods and glaciers and things like that. So, it's important to be aware and accepting of whatever gifts we have on a daily basis. If you have water today be thankful. Put out your thank yous that you were able to drink water today, you know. So, things like that where, you know, you'll always want to remember that if you have another day of life and another opportunity to learn, that's what you are thankful for.
Paul Meunier:If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org, that's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host, Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.