Zooming In on Dyslexia with Faye Bankler Casell

Faye Bankler Cassell, a certified academic language therapist and dyslexia therapist, discusses her work with parents and children through her website and YouTube channel. She highlights the literacy crisis in the U.S., noting that only 1 in 5 children with dyslexia are labeled and receive services. Faye emphasizes the importance of early intervention and multi-sensory learning. She also discusses the challenges of dyslexia diagnosis and the need for systematic, cumulative, and repetitious instruction to help children decode with fluency. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Welcome to the Teacher Ads Podcast. I'm your host, Melissa Milner, a teacher who is painfully curious and very easily inspired. This podcast is ever-changing, and I hope with each season, you find episodes that speak to you in your work as an educator. This is the seventh season of the Teacher Ad. And it's exciting to see the growth in how many educators are listening. Episodes are released every other week. If you enjoyed the Teacher Ad, please rate it on Apple Podcasts and leave a review. It helps the podcast reach more educators. I'm happy to share that the career mentorship program Major Choice is now sponsoring the Teacher Ads Podcast. I'm thrilled about the partnership. You can learn more about becoming a mentor at majorchoice.com/slash mentor. Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

My name is Faye Bankler Cassell. I am a certified academic language therapist, a special educator, a dyslexia therapist, and I am now working with parents through my website and my socials, homereadingcoach.com. Also on YouTube with a channel called Teach My Child to Read. I have been in private dyslexia therapy practice and in public school as a special educator and dyslexia therapist, and I am soon launching a home program for parents of kids with dyslexia.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Wow. Yes. Okay. So this episode is going to be a lot about clearly reading challenges all related to dyslexia, or do you work with other um reading challenges as well? Like, do you work with kids that just have attention issues and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Like historically, I have, you know, especially in the public school, ADHD co-occurs with dyslexia about 30% of the time.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

In my private practice, I am working with struggling readers. If the parents come to me, their reader is struggling, we will sit down and I'll do some assessing. And, you know, if it feels like a good match, we'll give it a go. So it doesn't necessarily have to be identified dyslexia. I a large portion of what I'm doing right now is trying to help families who've been shut out or having trouble accessing dyslexia therapy services through their public school.

unknown 4:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Or, you know, perhaps if they're homeschooling or in another environment, I am sure you know tons of data about the literacy crisis in the United States right now. And it has really impacted kids with dyslexia. And I would say that every week I talk to multiple parents who either the school is saying we're not going to test your child because they're passing. Never mind that it doesn't comply with IDEA. Or, you know, the grades are fine, or they will test the child and maybe say the child's dyslexic or not, that the child won't qualify. I've met parents who have fought for over two years to get their kids services. And I just hit a point where I felt like I wanted to create something that was cost-effective where parents could do some intervention at home either while they're fighting the school or just circumvent the school altogether. Because the reality is that about one in five people have dyslexia. And in the American school system, they believe that like maybe one out of five of those are actually labeled and given services.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Right. It's a very small percentage. It's kind of a big issue. And I know, you know, I don't know if you're specifically talking about Lucy Copkins or not, but um, when things aren't directly taught, that's a problem. And that was a problem for many years.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

And um, yeah, so uh I, you know, we're just catching up and getting back onto old school, but putting that in quotes, like actually teaching, you know, the letter patterns and the sounds and the old school and new school, because we've also done so many brain scans and studies, and we know so much. It is funny that you mentioned Lucy Calkin.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

So I went to teachers college, Columbia University, and my first semester there, they were not doing placements for us in the classroom, and I really wanted to be in the classroom, and so I volunteered to do an internship with the reading and writing project. And at that point, New York was funneling a lot of money into the program, and there were trainers all over the city, and then during the summer, the teachers were descending upon teachers college. Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

It was huge, it was huge, yeah. It was huge, and there's great things about let me just disclaimer, there are great things about Lucy Cockins' program.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

However, you know, getting high-quality, you know, books into kids' hands, although they can't read them, but it's a little detail. I would watch them teach the three queuing method. And I would go home at the end of the day and tell my husband, tell my friends, it's so weird what they're doing. They're reading the sentence and then they have a post-it over the word, and they're asking the kids to guess what they think the word's going to be, and to guess by looking at the picture or to guess by looking at the first letter, which they would only show them the first letter. And I thought the whole thing was strange. I also felt like, you know, they're the experts. Anyway, I was in early childhood. So, and I when I left graduate school, I was working in early childhood special education. So I wasn't too worried about uh my literacy work because it's so much phonemic awareness, phonological awareness, all these things that are sort of those pre-reading skills. And when I was going into elementary school, that's when I said, Okay, I don't know what that was of trying to teach me, but I'm gonna go back. And that's when I became a dyslexia therapist.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

And that's when I heard Solda's story, and I said, Oh, everything makes perfect sense now. I thought it was strange.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

That's so interesting. And it's funny, the three queuing systems I learned when I was reading Recovery Trained.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Because that's it's all about does it look like, does it does it look right? Does it sound right? Does it make sense? Like that was it. And you were looking at the pictures and then you looked at the patterns, and then you yeah, and it helped some kids, but overall, it's not well.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

What's interesting is that's how dyslexic kids read. I mean, they guess from the picture and the letter, you know, a lot of kids.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

It's like a strategy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

It is a strategy, yeah. So, anyway, uh you we know the origin.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

So, you know, a lot of kids are flooding the system uh between you know, tier two and above, between um the reading crisis and then also COVID. So I when I was at Houston ISD, uh they would always bring all the sort of district people through. And I remember grilling one of them and saying, What is your plan? Because we cannot qualify every kindergartner who has been home this year. What is the plan? You know, and I I think And they didn't have one. No, I feel like uh unofficial plan is parents have to pick up the slack. And you know, to work with me, I'm a couch, so there are different people who do or Gillingham dyslexia therapy. I'm not a tutor, I'm a therapist, it's a different longer training. So I'm in Texas, I charge eighty dollars an hour. But if I were in the northeast, if I lived where he lived, hundred, hundred and twenty.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

And that's just not right. And so I've done I've done two things. One is I did put out an ebook. It's free, it's called the Dyslexia Roadmap for Families. And I can give you the link, they can access it from my website, and it's just a place to start so that people can start looking for where do I even go? What about testing? Uh, are there free and low-cost things? So I just kind of compiled. And you know, I think it's it's a living working document because after I put it up and distributed it, I thought, I missed this. But what's happening was I'm in these Facebook groups and different places where parents will come on and say, I think my kid has dyslexia. What do I do? And folks will come out of the woodwork. You know, there they're always parents with life experience. And it's important to distinguish between life experience that worked for your kid, and that is evidence-based fact, you know, information.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

And there are other people who were coming out of the woodwork who maybe aren't as qualified. And it just felt like a feeding frenzy. So I'm really, I just wanted there to be a place for families to start that then sent them off to reliable national kind of resources or state resources. So that's the first thing, and then doing this home program. So I'm doing the beta launch this month in March, and it's under$100, and it's 13 weeks, 53 sessions, and I'm just teaching the parents how to begin the intervention and supplying all the cards, and they print them out and I walk them through.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

So this is a strange question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Is that legal in the like Orton Gillingham world?

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Well, you know, I am not taking anybody else's materials. I've been trained on multiple, that's a great question. Yeah, multiple Orton Gillingham. Um, I am a certified academic language therapist. You know, I I've got my certification, I'm training, and I'm not infringing on anybody's copyright. So that is very important. Were I at a public school, were I anywhere else, right? I would be doing intervention.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

So I'm not making any claims. You know, I don't have I don't have studies, I don't have, you know, so I'm not making those kinds of claims.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

But you have to get those cards in the hands of the parents.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Right. I hired a designer and they print them on hard stock. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

So it's your, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

It's mine. I, you know, I've developed it all. Oh, yeah, no, no, no, no. No copyright infringement. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah. I wrote all the reading practices, I wrote the fluency decodables.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

It's been a labor of love. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

I mean, you should publish it through them, but that's another hole.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

You know, I really I want to I want parents to be able to use it if they need it, yes, print it out, have lifetime access, and be done with it. Because the thing is, there are so many different options for families. And if they want to hire a cult and do one-on-one, they can do that. If they want an Orton Gillingham tutor, if they want, you know, so they just really need options. So this is an option.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

That's pretty cool. Okay, I I get what you're saying now. That makes a lot more sense. So you say you're not a tutor, you're a there was a wording you gave.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

So a cult, a certified academic language therapist.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

So we are certified through the Academic Language Therapy Association.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

And recognized by the International Dyslexia Association. Gotcha. Gotcha. So right. So you have some different Orton Gillingham kind of institutes that will certify tutors, associates, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

So in order to be a child, you have to do something like 700 supervised hours, kind of two and a half years of instruction, you know, yeah. You have to go all the way through a dyslexia therapy protocol a few times. You have to do recorded videos. It's a whole long, lengthy process. So it's very intensive. And um, yeah.

unknown 15:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

So that's a little bit of a difference.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

So I guess, you know, when I think of dyslexia, I feel that it's very misunderstood. And it's, you know, the moving around of letters. Well, that's not all that dyslexia is. A lot of it is they can't hear the sounds. Like, can you just kind of break down how you know a child has dyslexia and not just some other issue with reading?

SPEAKER_00 15:50

The best way to know that they have dyslexia is to test them. And I do not diagnose, identify label kids. Gotcha. So that is not in my purview.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

However, I, for example, there's a family right now who asked me, they said their daughter's having reading struggles. Can I come work with her? Absolutely. So after several sessions, I went to them and I said, I don't diagnose, but I'm seeing so many characteristics that are common with my dyslexic student. I am encouraging you to please test her and find out if that's what's going on or if something else is going on, right? So there are certain, you know, signs that families will see. And I should say that there's no reason to wait for a dyslexia identification before you intervene.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

I was just gonna ask you that.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

There's no harm, right? Right. So the the way that we teach kids with dyslexia to read are essential for kids with dyslexia, that they are helpful for everybody. Yep. So there's no nothing negative is going to happen.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Science has now shown us with about 92% accuracy that you can identify at age five and a half. So the kids don't even need reading instruction, honestly, because like you said, so much of it is the phonological. That's where it's impacted. So if a family is, you know, trying to kind of feel out their kids, maybe if there are any sort of warning signs of dyslexia, certainly if there's been any history of speech and language delays, that is a risk factor.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

And then you just kind of go from there. So I tell parents, every book, not every book, but many of the books you're reading are going to be have rhymes in them. So one of your first things can be as you read the book aloud, can your child pick out the two rhyming words on the page?

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Or which words rhyme? Because I work with third graders, fourth graders where I'll say three words and ask them which two rhyme and deer and headlights.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Or I might say you can play kind of a guess my word, duh. Can they push them together and figure out the word?

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Breaking apart compound words, flashing light, and then within there, breaking apart multisyllabic words, and then just manipulating the phonemes. So, you know, if I say lamp and I take away the old and I put in a what is it gonna say? And they come up with camp.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

So those are the kinds of things that are going to give you some information about if they're ready to learn reading instruction. And then there are the other kind of bigger things like do they recognize the letters of the alphabet, most importantly, the letters of their name. Those are the first and most important ones. Okay. And if they're struggling with the letters of their name, then that's something you want to monitor. And then early letter sound joining together, just other things where kids will maybe just sort of have trouble sorting through information, remake remembering the days of the week and the order that they're in, or every Monday we go to art class and we walk out of art class and you turn to me and say, What day are you today? So those kinds of things can be. It can often look like ADHD because there can be so much trying to escape reading activities, you know, um, just sort of the the trying to get away from things. So, so I do believe that a lot of times schools and others will say, I think it's ADHD.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Right. Absolutely. It's so dead on. So, what are your goals when you're working with these students? Is it different depending on where they're starting? Like you're meeting where they are, obviously, and building from there. But like what the end goal is that they are reading independently, or is the main goal just that they can read with you and they can read with mom and dad and work towards independence eventually? Like what what's the end of the thing?

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Are you talking about as a dyslexia therapist in general? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

My goal is coach, all of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Well, that's a work in progress, and it's building up. I mean, it's starting from the beginning, but it hasn't uh I haven't built the the built it up yet. But when I work with a kid, my goal is that they are able to decode with fluency so that they can comprehend the text that they are reading.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

So the whole within a single session, whether it's learning, right, a syllable type or you know, a graphing, phony match or whatever the case may be, building vocabulary and oral language, word attack skills, working with, I use a lot of graphic organizers, a lot of support and multi-sensory tools so that the brain scans that are done of typical readers and then dyslexic readers, for typical reader, you can see all these different areas of the brain light up.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

For a dyslexic reader, there's underactivity kind of in the area that would promote efficient uh reading. And then they're very strong in the other side of the brain. So it's not uncommon to come across a brilliant kid who has phenomenal skill sets and cannot read. So um that's very common.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

And again, I don't want to speak for tutors because I'm not a tutor, but my understanding and impression is there they kind of will work to plug holes and sort of um and then obviously use the Orton Gillingham approach. Yes. For us, I start at the very beginning and I kind of test you in and check, you know, to make sure that all the foundations there, that all the and depending on where the child's coming in and testing, I I might start at the very beginning. Now, if you're older or you're pretty decent, I might zoom through that a little bit and then slow down. But it's a lengthy process when I'm doing the full intervention with a kid, we're talking three to five times a week, year and a half to three years.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Oh my gosh, are you serious?

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Yeah, we're going through every single syllable type. We are learning how to decode everything. And it just keeps building and building and building because for a dyslexic learner, they need to be systematic, cumulative, repetitious. It has to be explicit. Yeah. So when you hear the sound A and it's at the end of the word, it's usually spelled A Y. When you hear it and it's here, you know, I it is all the yeah. Very explicit and so it's a lengthy process and then also kind of walking them through ways to approach a variety of texts so that they can be ready to comprehend. So and then handing off those skills. The other thing is that the multisensory piece is really important. Um, because like I said, the brain kind of needs some extra helping up. So a lot of the things that we'll do with the kids, like if I'm working with a kiddo who's still learning letters, we might do a lot of tactile things where I'm starting with, let's say, just these, you know, few sounds and these few letters, and reaching into a bag, can she guess what letter it is by feeling it? That's it. You know, just by touch. Um playing a guess my letter kind of thing just through yes and no uh questions, like is it does it have curves, is it only straight lines? Does it come after n? Does it, you know, is it a vowel? Is it this? The kids are watching their mouths and they're learning that vowel sounds, the mouth is open and your vocal cords are vibrating, so that as they say a word, they can easily, if they don't know, identify the vowel and then go from there.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

So that's kind of cool for certain learners that need that almost almost tactile in a way, sensory.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Some people will have you feel. Um, I have them watch if they need to feel, you know, when at the very beginning, when children are really struggling to even count syllables, I'll be like, here's my track, your jaw's gonna touch your hand because the ball will open your mouth.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah. And the English language is so complex to be able to teach all the different patterns, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

When we get further along, we really delve into the history of English language because when you understand the history of it, then it it can help you, it can really help map those words.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

I mean like the morphology with the roots.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

The morphology, but also right, but also the history of English. So, right when the Normans invade the Anglo-Saxon, that's when all the soft C's and soft G's start coming in.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

So interesting.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Those are also a lot of legal terms, those are a lot of art terms. So red, black is totally your Anglo-Saxon, but magenta. So those kinds of things, and then you know, getting into the content areas, sciences, that sort of thing, and learning about the Greek influence, and now we have a sound that's spelled with a chore. It was a, you know, so those sorts of things or from the French, it was chef, you know. Um, so so yeah, it's a it's a lengthy endeavor, and that is why I say that it just makes me furious because um that we're not that that every family has to kind of reinvent the wheel, and that we're we're really failing these kiddos and these families because nobody should have to pay like a$6,000,$5,000,$10,000 a year penalty because their school has been teaching other kids the wrong way and won't teach their kids, you know, it's uh it makes me kind of that is that's kind of a that that is it's so funny because I just um interviewed uh Christopher Paps, who's an uh investigative reporter, and he was all focused on the Baltimore City schools.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

He wrote a book and everything. And a lot of that is, you know, he's talking about them inflating grades just to get the kids through, because like if you inflate the grades, the kids will stay in school and they get money for population that's in school. And so they're inflating grades, so the kids will stay, and not the kids are they're graduating and not able to read.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Interesting. There was a news story not too long ago in the last few months about a young, a young woman who graduated with honors from high school and could not read because of something like that. I will say that in Texas there are a lot of Celts. We we've kind of found more our credentialing organization is in Texas, and we've definitely really grown a lot in the South. We're harder to find, you know, up north. But so down here, there was a period when the school districts were spending a lot of money getting people this kind of training. But teachers leave, things happen. And so some of the curriculums, another reason that I I would never, you know, uh put my name on something that somebody else taught me, these curriculums, you're not allowed to teach them unless they've trained you as a Cal.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Correct, correct.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Um so what's happening is it's just it's a lottery here in Texas and in many states. You could walk into your school, you could get services, you could have a phenomenal curriculum taught by a licensed pro. And because the districts found that really expensive, they were able to adopt a state-approved curriculum that is not as robust, that is very basic, and they are able to train any teacher they want for four half days versus my like two whatever years. And it's really a lottery. You can have the best intervention of any kid, or it could be kind of a wash.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

That's uh luck of the draw. Yeah. It is there a reason, and I'm sure there is, why there's not just like what you're doing just on a much more national level, you know, like for all schools in the nation, we want you to come out reading. We're giving this money to train these many kids, you know, these many um teachers on Orton Gilling hand, you know, or whatever they decide, and just push that out as a national. I mean, it's up to the states, I get it.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

But I uh there's so much that's up to the states. There have been some really great dyslexia advocates who are pushing really hard, and a lot of the states are adopting dyslexia handbooks and different regulations. I I was in Houston where the Nighthouse Center is, and that's where I did my training and my initial certification. Now I'm in San Antonio and we've got Scottish Wright here, they're phenomenal, they've got their own dyslexia curriculum, and they keep it under lock and key, you have to be a Celch, you know, those kind of things and trained by them. And others that are much more accessible. What I noticed happening in my school district here, and I can't say if it's on a national scale, but the school district spent a lot of money and they trained up these teachers to be competitive.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

And then they switched the curriculum to a much thinner, skimpier, and told them not even to do the really high quality one. So you have because they need to adopt this other one, and they can train teachers in four half days or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

So then you have these highly trained people who like they can go work at a private school now, or they could go private and charge money, or you know, that kind of thing. And so I I do understand that there has to be something that you can do in mass that's high quality. I don't know what the solution is. And every state, you know, our state has a variety of options that different school districts pick different things. So I know kids in one school district that are doing a phenomenal program in person four or five days a week in a small group. And I've heard of school districts where they put them on a computer to do a computer program that I I have no problem with anybody using as a supplement, but that's not a primary intervention.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

So boy. I mean, in my at my school alone, I feel that I don't know if it's my district or my state, but my school alone, there's one, two, three, four, at least four people trained in Wilson. And it's it's Wilson. I don't know what the difference is.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

I know Wilson, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Yeah, maybe five. Like it was like a few years ago, it was like, let's get these people trained. Um 100%. And we lost my co-teacher, got trained and was like, oh my gosh, and couldn't use it at our school as she went to uh another school in the district where she could could use what she'd learned. Um, so yeah, so throughout the district, I think we're we're pretty we're doing okay with it. And I don't know if that's true of all the districts in the state in mass or not. But in Texas, in Texas, it it's interesting how you say there's a multitude of options and different schools are choosing different, like it's not that's not regulated even at state level, then it is, it is.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

We uh Texas actually has a dyslexic handbook that a lot of states use as a model.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Um, so they identify the qualities, and I believe they have a list of curricula that meet their standards.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Within that, there are Wilson type phenomenal ones.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Gotcha. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

They so they have to meet a certain minimum threshold of standard that the district can then pick from.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Right. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. I I'm gonna throw this out, see if you have any idea of what you would say. Um, top three or five um recommendations for gen ed classroom teachers that have these wonderful readers in their classroom.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

A couple of things that I would love to say to Gen Ed teachers is that you it's always healthy to assume that 15 to 20% of your class is going to be dyslexic. So it's really helpful to hear them read, right, to understand what the errors are to set the baseline. They're already doing those things. One of the things that I think is really important to know is that kids who are cognitively precocious can mask it so well, we cannot use grades and passing, you know, sort of those first grade benchmarks as an indicator. It really has to be them decoding orally to you, because with a lot of those kids, they've kind of got the bandwidth to be able to memorize a lot of how the words look. And so they can sort of fly under the radar visually third grade. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Yeah. So those guys are are harder to catch, but but really you can you can pick up on it when you have them reading and you're doing those sort of phonological things. I would love to see general educators and all educators, like a therapist. I I come at it from a Fed background.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Not many dyslexia therapists do not. So, really, the really embracing the multisensory learning. So the tactile, the visual, the kinesthetic, you know. So when I'm teaching kids, like I've got hand signals, we've got visuals, we've got chance, and I have seen a lot of primary teachers doing phenomenal things on Instagram. I mean, so it's it's happening. It would be awesome if it would happen in every classroom. So um, those are those are some important things. I think another thing that um, you know, I always recommend that parents but teachers too, uh, maybe read Sally Shaywith's Overcoming Dyslexia. I think it's a really nice look at dyslexia the lifespan. I think she's got a wonderful language of how to talk about dyslexia to kids, to adults. So she, her model of dyslexia is an iceberg of weakness and a sea of strength, which I think is a very empowering way. Yes. And when I talk to kids about their dyslexia, I borrow from her. And I, you know, I tell them that they have something called dyslexia. Have they heard that word? Have they been told that? And then I ask them, like, do you know what it means? Or can I tell you what it means? And I tell them that dyslexia is a condition, you know, uh in your brain where smart kids struggle with reading. And does that sound like you? And they're like, Yeah, yeah. Cause you can do this and this and this, and you're good at this and this and this, but reading's hard, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Yes. So for some kids, reading is easy and the things that you're able to do are hard. And for you, it's this way. But there's a special kind of teaching that we can do that helps dyslexic kids read, and I know how to do it. You know, it's just a very superpower. Just, you know, like here's the here's what it's called, here's what it is. And, you know, a lot of well-intentioned, I've come across some really well-intentioned parents, particularly deaths, who don't want their kids to know they're dyslexic because they don't want it to be a crutch. And I would encourage any general educator to try to dissuade that and plug some holes in that argument because the kids know that they're dyslexic. They just haven't been given a name and given some support around it.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

It's affecting their identity, it's affecting their self, their, you know, yeah, because they don't know what's wrong with them. That what's wrong with me, what's wrong with me?

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Another great thing that can happen is that teachers who are dyslexic, older kids who are dyslexic can be mentors, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

I had an assistant teacher who was dyslexic and would would talk to the kids, you know. Um, there are some nice organizations that will, you know, put sort of teenage dyslexic students with younger ones and just sort of it's just helpful to see where you're going and that you're gonna learn. And a lot of a lot of, you know, I I'm at this one teacher who every week she um as part of her dyslexia therapy groups, she shows them just small snippets of interviews with really accomplished dyslexic adults, you know, so that you can see like Steven Spielberg did just find this person. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

And I I think there's an Einstein book, it's like a picture book about Einstein, but it talks about his dyslexia. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Yeah. So I think it's really, it's really empowering for both the parents, the kids, and the teachers to have these sort of models in their head of what we're working toward and what kind of capabilities are possible that this is, you know, this is their weakness, but it's not the defining thing of their life.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

A lot of people, a lot of adults, a lot of young adults will credit their dyslexia with their work ethic, you know, they always just had to work harder, and that was they just got used to it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

And of course, creativity and all that. I mean, yeah. So how many, what's the percentage of dyslexic students that they have literally the stuff, the letters moving around on the page? Is that every dis because I don't hear a lot of that going on with the students we've had.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

So a lot of people do think that's when they see letters backwards or letters moving on the page.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Letters backwards, but the yeah, the moving on the page.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

I've never I have met some kids who have that experience.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Again, I'm I'm not a diagnostician, I'm not a scientist, I'm not a researcher, so I don't know about the percentages. But I will say that it can't be an experience of kids when the text is way above. It's just there's there there is information that they're working five times harder than your average reader.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

And yet they're tired, the overwhelm. And when you meet dyslexic people have told me when you meet one person with dyslexia, you met one person with dyslexia, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:07

It it's it can be a total different spectrum. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

And it is the way that your brain is processing the information that's coming in. So that can be different for each dyslexic. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, processing, it's a processing issue where they will experience that.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

But yeah, it's like a confusion in the brain, and the brain just gobbles it up.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

I would say that in my teaching, I've had three kids complain to me that the letters are moving. That doesn't mean that other kids don't feel like it's happening, but you know, that that's yeah, I think it's been such a like an over exaggeration of what a dyslexic kid is.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

And I remember, I don't remember who was telling me, but they're like, they're like, the main thing is they can't hear the sounds. I'm like, wait a minute, what the main thing?

SPEAKER_00 43:07

I thought it was the stuff moving on the page. What do you mean it's sounds? So yeah. It's the phonological system that's yeah, that's impacted. And yeah, at one point in history, people thought that it was a vision problem and they were attacking it as a vision problem. And that's why you still have people who are talking about colored paper and colored overlays and all those kinds of things. Yes. I do have things that I'll use for kids so that it will block out, you know, the other letters and words so they can focus in, you know, or even just using an index card so they don't, you know, feel like they're not drawing attention to themselves because it can the overwhelm can set really quickly when there's a lot of print on a page, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense, actually. Okay, so this was amazing. How can the listeners reach you if I mean are you open to just teachers saying, I'm working with the student, here's what's going on. Like, do you coach teachers on this?

SPEAKER_00 44:14

That's a great I'm very flattered that you asked. I'm not so in my in my world, uh the people who would teach teachers are kind of QIs, qualified instructors. I'm not one of those.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

You know, I'm always happy to kind of brainstorm with teachers.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

I share strategies, information for teachers, parents on my socials. So the uh home reading coach on Instagram and Facebook. I do deeper dive videos. I will say they're really geared a lot toward family and responsive to kind of frequently asked questions. But if a teacher has like a frequently asked question, so one of the things that I did on the YouTube channel, which is called Teach My Child to Read, I interviewed two former, well, they used to be called LSSPs, but licensed school psychologists who now are private licensed psychologists. Then we did kind of a three part video where I just asked them, what's the difference? You know, in getting tested privately and getting tested publicly.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Do you do IEEs? Are you allowed to? How does that work from your end? You know, so just trying to get the information out there that people would want to know. So those are a couple ways. My website, homereadingcoach.com, has links to everything. I do have that free ebook. Yes. And that kind of just goes over basic stuff. What are some of the interventions? What are some of the training centers? What are the low cost free options? How do I request testing? You know, a few advocacy tips. Here are the parent groups, just sort of a broad to get you started.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

You know, and then I do work privately with kids and in person and virtually. And I send them all their materials so that they're still hands-on and we're still doing all of that. And then I I consult with families. I mean, sometimes they just want to sit down and have me look at an IEP or talk to them, you know, and kind of think about next steps in the path forward.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

So I do that too. That's great. I I think all the I'm so glad you've got all the social media and you get the videos and, you know, because teachers can plug in. And I know in the past for for things that I've wanted to learn about, it was about it was for parents, but I, I mean, I got so much, so many gems from it as a teacher just from listening to what was for parents. Like, like it doesn't, you know, it's we're all trying to help the child. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

I mean, and one of the things I do on Instagram each week, I document and then provide links for the things that I picked up from Instagram that week. So I do kind of a little curated, here are the things that I was saving and sharing and learning from, just so again, you know, so that we can kind of get more good strategies out there. And I will just say if there are any parents who are interested and feel like they need to kick start things at home, they'll find information about the reading breakthrough on my website as well.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Very cool. Uh uh, thank you again for taking the time to come on. You reached out to me. That was really great. I'm like, oh my god, dyslexia, yes. Like, um, yeah, I'm gonna have you on. Are you kidding?

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Thank you so much. I really, really appreciate you including me in your podcast. Yay!

SPEAKER_01 47:55

For my blog, transcripts of this episode, and links to any resources mentioned, visit my website at www.teteachure.com. You can reach me on Twitter and Instagram at Melissa B. Milner, and I hope you check out the Teacher As Facebook page for episode updates. This podcast is sponsored by the Career Mentorship Program Major Choice. You can learn more about becoming a mentor at majorchoice.comslash mentor. Thanks for listening, and that's a wrap.