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Vitals for Youth Ministry
Welcome to the Vitals for Youth Ministry Podcast. Vitals for youth ministry is a biblical framework based out of Acts 2:42-46, developed by Lead The Generation that trains youth leaders to build a local church youth ministry focused on developing students into healthy disciples.
In this podcast we will focus on the topics and issues most relevant to leadership in Youth Ministry. The Vitals for Youth Ministry Podcast is hosted by Eran Holt, founder of Lead The Generation & Caleb Leake, Youth Pastor at Allison Park Church in Pittsburgh, Pa.
Vitals for Youth Ministry
Leaning Into the Mess, Releasing Your Grip, and How to Coach Young Leaders
Reggie Hill, Young Adults Pastor at Journey Church in Kenosha, Wisconsin, shares his expertise on leadership development in youth ministry and how to avoid becoming "the lid" to your own ministry.
• Shifting from being the superhero who does everything to a coach who develops leaders
• Creating ministry tracks that help students find their leadership lane based on passions and skills
• Using tasks to develop people rather than using people to get tasks done
• Overcoming perfectionism that prevents us from releasing ministry to others
• Looking for FAT kids—Faithful, Available, Teachable—as potential leaders
• Developing adult leaders through clear expectations and consistent pastoring
• Starting small with leadership opportunities that grow over time
• Focusing on outcomes over outputs when training leaders
• Understanding that students remember their relationships with leaders more than sermons
Remember, don't just prepare a message, prepare messengers. Jesus didn't just gather followers—He developed leaders who would carry His message forward.
Connect with Reggie!
Follow him on IG @_reggiehill or check out his website https://www.reggiehill.com/epk
If you're the only one growing, the ministry is already shrinking right, like if I'm the only one that's getting to use my gifts and getting to grow my talents, if I'm the only one preaching or leading worship. I wanted to have my hands on everything and I realized I was the lid to my own ministry.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, welcome to Vitals for Youth Ministry podcast. So glad that you joined us today for this episode. My name is Aaron, director of the Youth Generation. I got Caleb Leak in the studio.
Speaker 3:Yeah, youth pastor at Alice Park Church for five years now. Let's go.
Speaker 2:And excited about our guest today, caleb. We got Reggie Hill with us, who is a young adults pastor at Kenosha, wisconsin, at Journey Church, also does quite a bit of traveling and a youth ministry pro in his own right. Lots of youth ministry experience. So, reggie, glad you've joined us. You're probably a new voice to a lot of our audience, so take a moment and just tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, so grew up. First of all, thanks so much for having me. I'm honored Just even as we were talking off air man, like the guests that you guys have on this podcast and the things that you guys are doing is absolutely amazing. I love all that you do is lead the generation, aaron, and it's cool to get to meet you man as well. And so I just want to say, off the top of the like, so awesome to be here with you guys. Top of the like, so awesome to be here with you guys.
Speaker 1:So a little about me I grew up, born and raised in detroit, michigan. Um was uh, not interested in youth ministry at all, didn't even know like grew up really like uh, to repent a cost. So youth ministry wasn't even on my like mind as a young person, student, things like that. Growing up wasn't until I was actually like 18, 19 and a youth pastor by the name of Pastor Stephen Amaro you know, pastor Stephen, pastor Aaron and so he recruited me to be the check-in guy because I have a lot of personality, a smile. He said, hey, come be a youth leader, just run check-in for me.
Speaker 1:And it just grew from there. And now here we are, 15 years later, been in ministry and served in youth ministry four or five different churches now, and now the context I get to share here at Kenosha as a young adults pastor, I also work on the NextGen team with our kids and youth pastors so we help lead the NextGen department here at Journey and it's been I've been here now five, going on five years. And so, man, it's just been a privilege and honor to be in youth ministry and ministry this long.
Speaker 2:And you're a new dad. Yeah, I was just going to say.
Speaker 1:Yes, man, new dad. It's so fun Raising. I've got an eight-month-old who is named Carter Ray, and she is just the joy of our lives. Me and my wife Jade have been married three years and now we've added to our family. We had a puppy that is not as jealous as we thought she was going to be, but she's pretty jealous of Carter. Now that's taking center stage. But it's all good, carter, eight months old and having all the fun with learning how to sleep, train and do all that stuff man, it's a joy.
Speaker 3:Hey, I mean it's a good thing you've been donated the puppy. Usually that happens like it was an eight-month busy. It's like I tried man. I gotta lie usually gone.
Speaker 1:You tried to I tried I, I leave the door open. You know what I'm saying. I'm like hey, you know this she's throwing treats out the window like, yeah, that's my wife's dog and uh, happy wife, happy life come on so the dog is staying and, uh, if the dog goes, I probably gotta go too.
Speaker 3:So that's awesome. Well, we're excited to have you, man, and, uh, anyone who's been around youth ministry has a story like of, yeah, youth pastors doing something stupid, or you doing something stupid, or, uh, an intern or a student doing something stupid, or you doing something stupid, or an intern or a student doing something stupid. And that's why I love that we get to just talk with youth pastors. I get to just hear all these crazy stories.
Speaker 2:So we got to do an episode where it's just nothing but stupid youth pastor stories, and that would be hours and hours probably just being you. It's true, it's true.
Speaker 3:No, reg, but Reggie. You were teasing us a little bit about your story, but I'd love to hear what you got for us today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, so this was at youth camp and I believe, aaron, you were speaking for us at this youth camp, which is a funny story. As we were talking about this, I was like thinking what is? And this is a story I always go back to when somebody asks this. It's always go back to when somebody asks this. It's, uh, you know, youth camp.
Speaker 1:We're playing games and capture the flags happening and you know, all of a sudden, uh, one of the sweetest young ladies I've ever had in his ministry. She falls ever so gracefully, really, uh, and lands and like breaks her arm, like, like right in the middle of her forearm, like both those bones just noodled up. And the worst part was we got it on video. The videographer was like right there and he's like, oh, and so we go back. It made it somehow, I don't know. I believe we got permission from her or parents or something, but it made it in the UCamp like recap video. It was like, hey, look at this sick break. But yeah, it was like, hey, look at this sick break. But yeah, it was cool.
Speaker 1:Uh, the funny, like when you watch the video, you see her fall and you're like, how, how did you do that? By like she like slid in the third and broke her arm. It's like you need some milk, girl. That should not have happened. Her parents like weren't even shocked. That was the. You know, that's the biggest fear. Is like when your kid breaks her arm at youth camp that's a tough phone call, yeah that's a tough phone.
Speaker 1:We called and they're like yeah, we'll be there, which we like.
Speaker 3:They weren't even shocked they were like totally cool, they're like yeah, this is just her, like she.
Speaker 1:She a little bit of a klutz, but so such a sweet girl and man like they're like we got the extra insurance policy on it.
Speaker 2:We were prepared for this yeah, so we?
Speaker 1:I have that clip saved on my phone and have the photo saved in my favorites, because it's like I look at that photo, maybe like twice a year, like, hey, you know what, we can go through that nothing, anything's possible wait.
Speaker 3:So it wasn't. The video wasn't like her with her arm like like I'm dangling right, it was just the wind she slid oh no, we got, we got it all.
Speaker 1:Oh, you got it. We got her literally the video has her sliding like she's reaching for a flag, misses it, lands on her arm, breaks it, gets up and goes. Pastor reggie, and I, I'm like nurse, don't ask me, I don't know what to do with that.
Speaker 2:We got an ambulance here and I'm like oh man, did you guys go like like full-blown slow-mo on the recap video of the break like?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, well, until you ever mentioned, they slow-moed it, they replayed it and all the kids were like she got up, literally like her arm was like a piece of spaghetti, like it was just noodled up and yeah, but it was. She was a good supporter by that. She never cried. I was probably more scared than she was and, yeah, her parents were super gracious, super awesome. Like I said, they weren't shocked at all by this, which was like that's kind of concerning, but I think she was like the baby and they had like adult kids and so I was like, ah, whatever, like we've seen it all at this that or that happens more often than just that you oh man
Speaker 2:parents. That's awesome, you know, it's only good youth camp game.
Speaker 3:If somebody doesn't get a little bit hurt, in my opinion yeah, which is surprising coming from you because you're a Gen Z youth pastor, so you guys are a little soft.
Speaker 2:Like I was a Gen X youth pastor and like our metrics for how well camp went were based on how many injuries we had that week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, come on you guys remember kickball, water, water slide kickball.
Speaker 3:yeah, oh, we had like 14 broken ankles yeah absolutely the first inning, the first inning you're like okay, this is done.
Speaker 2:This is it oh man, yeah, in my first two years we played a game how many broken bones, how many kids threw up like those were the two numbers or how many kids passed out.
Speaker 3:We actually had to get a kid oxygen for one of our games, oh wow.
Speaker 2:It was like a two-mile sled push.
Speaker 3:We didn't even realize. Why am I?
Speaker 2:paying for a nurse to come. If she's not going to do anything, make her work, just kidding.
Speaker 3:I'm going to get my money's worth out of you.
Speaker 2:You made me buy that big old med kit that you wanted to bring with you.
Speaker 3:I hope my parents aren't listening.
Speaker 2:I, I hope my parents aren't listening.
Speaker 1:I don't think they are listening to this podcast.
Speaker 3:I would never say that we go to every safety precaution we can take. Yes, of course.
Speaker 1:That was awesome man. Always safety first.
Speaker 2:Well, there it is, folks. Welcome to Vitals for Youth Ministry podcast right, we love to talk about it. Oh, and the dog has woken up from his nap. He says okay, hi, buddy, that's a good stretch.
Speaker 2:You can lay back down now. Yeah, so, reggie, we call this podcast Vitals for Youth Ministry, based off of five vitals needed to produce healthy disciples and healthy youth ministry, found in Acts, chapter 2. So you got biblical truth, spiritual transformation, healthy community missional living and leadership development. If you're new to the Lead the gen fam or to the podcast, uh, roll on over to our website leadthegenerationcom. Check out all the vitals has to offer for you. It's all 100 free, which is amazing, but you got dozens of training videos for yourself, for your adult leaders, your student leaders.
Speaker 2:Um, you got online assessments. You got playbooks and and and roadmaps and all kinds of stuff to help you. So you can go check all that out. The podcast is a supplement to that and, reggie, we're excited to have you on the podcast today because we wanted to talk to you specifically about the vital of leadership development. I know that was a huge passion for you. It is right now for you as a young adult pastor, but when you were youth pastor as well. And here's what I'd love to dive in. First, I'd love to dive into how you develop student leaders in your youth ministry.
Speaker 2:I feel like every youth pastor I talk to is like I want student leaders, I need student leaders. Student leaders are going to be awesome. And then they're like how do I do it Right, Caleb you and I do it Right, Caleb you and I have had that conversation quite a bit, yeah. So, Reggie, just jump in and kind of walk us through kind of what your approach was to you know, leadership development for your students.
Speaker 1:Really. Yeah, it was simply that it was the fact that Jesus didn't just gather followers, right, he developed leaders. He, in fact, the more you look at scripture, he would oftentimes retreat away from the large crowds. He would pull away or he would say something crazy so that the crowd would leave and he would focus on whether it was the disciples or just a few followers that he had devoted.
Speaker 1:Like it really is ministry based, and I truly believe, like, uh, youth ministry, uh, healthy youth ministry isn't built necessarily on the backs of students, but it's built into students. Right, you, uh, and I'm I'm the person who believes. Like, if, if you're the only one growing the ministry is already shrinking. Right, like if I'm the only one that's getting to use my gifts and getting to grow my talents, if I'm the only one preaching or leading worship or doing this, I know how to. I was a youth pastor. Like, I wanted to know how to do everything, and so I was the best tech guy, I was the best sound engineer, I was the best communicator, I definitely wasn't the best worship leader, but I wanted to have my hands on everything and I realized I was the lid to my own ministry. Right, because I, and then the things that only I could do. I didn't have time to do right.
Speaker 1:And so student leadership became an opportunity for us to really develop students and work with students. It's not just about giving them a title or giving them tasks. It's really about, like, giving them a track to run on, giving them space to lead. And so we and our student leadership, we would create ministry tracks to help students really find the lane that they want to lead in, based on their passions or their skills or their availability or, whatever the case may be, what are they interested in. And then we'd oftentimes rotate them. So we had tracks like worship and tech and set up and tear down and check in and guest experience and social media and communication, and they would have, and then we partner them with either adult leaders or, most of the time, we partner them with interns that would kind of oversee that different area, that different track, and would coach them not control them, but coach them so that the students are still owning it and the students are still leading it and the students are still leading it.
Speaker 1:And our youth pastor does that here and he does an amazing job much better than I ever did, but does an amazing job with that and just allowing students to grow in the gifts that God's given them and to really, like have a training ground so that when they are in quote unquote big church, they already have amazing skills to offer the kingdom of God. Because they've been on tech and we found that a lot of times our students are the ones leading those, especially, like in the tech areas. Like are the ones leading it on Sunday morning as well, because it's something that they've grown into or grown up in, and so they're on the cutting edge of all of those things. And so we found that, like, when we give them ministry tracks and let them run on those tracks, man, they are so much more successful, because we don't just want to invite students to serve, we want to invite them to lead right. I remember one of our students. She started on the check-in team and, like grew in such amazing confidence and was able to do that that she would train, like our adult leaders on how to do check-in. So when we have new adult leaders come in, she was the one training them on how to run check-in and how to run planning center and how to do this and how we set things up and and it was like such a passion it didn't just give her something to do, it was helping her lead in those situations.
Speaker 1:And so one of the key things we always say, one of the key phrases we have, is we don't use tasks to develop people. We use I'm sorry, we use tasks to develop people. We don't use people to get tasks done. Right, we use tasks to develop people. We don't use people to get tasks done.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of times when we hear student leadership or we hear internships, we oftentimes will go like, man, how do I get all this stuff done? Ok, I'll get a student leadership team and we'll just have all these tasks that they can do and get it done. And they get stacked chairs and they can set up the candy shop and they can set up all this. And it's not about all that. It's about developing their God givengiven talents and seeing like, hey, man, this person has a gift for communication. This person has a gift for hospitality. How can we use that? How can we develop that? How can we encourage them in that gift, that spiritual gift that they have, and develop that? So the kingdom of God is better, because I can't do it all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so good. Yeah, I mean I think this is hitting on a great thing for all youth pastors of. We can become the land If we, if we try to be the superhero, we try to be the one that's best at it all I think, okay, can I play devil's advocate for a second? Here's, here's the, I think, the tension youth pastors live. Man, if I give opportunity to students, everything's going to suck and there's going to be a period where it's just messy. And so can you talk about that dynamic of when you give opportunities for students to lead. I mean I probably will be better than them at whatever I'm going to give them for a little bit. You know 100%. So how do?
Speaker 1:you deal with that in between.
Speaker 1:So I think, what is it? I think it's John Maxwell who says if somebody can do something, 70 as good as you give it to them, hand it off to them and so um, because eventually their 70, 70 will become 120 of what you could do right. But there is that time and I think we are like we can be overly conscious about our excellence culture when it's really just perfectionism and hiding Right. Like you, you want everything to be perfect, as if that's going to make the difference in whether someone gives their life to Christ or not.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, at the end of the day, like the Holy, we're going to do everything we can to be hospitable to, to, to lead well, to have things perfected, but at the end of the day, god is going to do what God wants to do and I'm not going to let my perfectionism stop what God wants to grow and develop in that young person. Now I'm going to coach them, I'm going to show them how I do it. And that's the thing is because it takes time, right, it takes more time to develop people. It takes more time to just, hey, just go get this done or hey, I'm just going to do it myself.
Speaker 1:It's much easier to just do everything yourself. It's much easier. It's much harder to do it through other people. Harder to do it through other people to allow people to mess up and to give them coaching and to allow them really to like figure it out on their own. I think we want to control everything a lot of times as youth pastors and youth leaders, because we want to control the environments that we're in and instead of developing people to make mistakes and, like man, I think about the mistakes we've all made. I think about the mistakes I've made when I was interning man, my youth pastor's wife would give me a sticky note every single sermon of words I shouldn't say from the stage.
Speaker 2:Right Like.
Speaker 1:I was like I probably shouldn't even be allowed to speak anymore, but they allowed me space to grow and space to lead, and I think we have to do that for the same for the next generation. Even if it gets messy, even if it gets a little not as perfect as we want it to be, because at the end of the day, god's going to do what he wants to do. We just have to oftentimes get out of the way.
Speaker 2:I think I really struggled with that when I was a youth pastor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do too 've really struggled with that when I was a youth pastor. Yeah, I, I do too. Yeah, I was. I just I still struggle with that. Can I say that, yeah, I do as well. It's an identity security thing too, because I it I don't know I think I can allow what happens on a wednesday night reflect back at like, well, this shows how good of a leader or how bad of a leader I am. And so, yeah, I think I I tend to have a hard time releasing my grip on things, because living in that the sucky period of a student being messy or an intern being messy or a leader being messy, it's like, oh, I, I feel like I'm, I'm bearing that, even though that is a I can say that out loud and it sounds goofy and it's false, but it's a, it's a real thing.
Speaker 2:I tend to tend to tends to be the battle for me when I when doing the holy spirit had to do a real like work in my heart is where um and he did and and obviously I'm a part of of that in the sense that I'm asking for that and allowing for that transformation to take place. But I, you know, holy spirit really had to get, get me to a place in my heart where I placed higher value and had more joy in seeing a student be on stage or seeing a student serving somewhere in a role, um, as opposed to me having higher value, uh, on the excellence or the perfectionism or or the you know, how well they do the job or how well they lead the song, preach the sermon, do the transition, make the announcements. You know all of that kind of stuff, you know. But early on in youth ministry I did it all and, um, I knew and I actually had, I lost, I actually lost some youth leaders over it, because I, I remember some youth leaders, like they stopped serving and then um, kind of came back to me that what they were saying was, um, it's they, they.
Speaker 2:They said, yeah, it's pretty much our youth ministry right now is pretty much the Aaron Holt show. He does everything, you know. He leads the worship, he does the preaching, he does the analysis, you know, Wow. And then it kind of hit me, and I think initially I was super defensive about it, in a bad way, you know, and it took probably years after that before I finally got to the point where I was like this is not about me, you know, this is about students. You know what was that? What was that journey like for you, reg?
Speaker 1:because you said you struggled with it too. Yeah, I mean, and I, if I'm being honest, I still struggle with it, because I'm a person that when I walk in, you know this, like, uh, being a guest in a lot of spaces, aaron, yeah, um, when you walk into spaces, you're like your senses kick on. You're like, okay, how's the lighting, how they set up the lobby? Uh, is the music too loud? Like what DB is this room right now? Like is this at 95? Cause it feels like it's at 97 right now.
Speaker 3:It's you know, and so I have to.
Speaker 1:So what I try to do is, with our leaders, our student leaders, people I'm coaching, I will literally take them with me and go hey, let's walk around and I'm going to show you everything. I see, I'm going to show you everything. So, hey, see how that box is over there, that empty box is by the trash. Can let's tear that up and put it in the trash? Can you see the lights that are just flickering on the wrong color? Let's go up there and let's fix those lights so that they do it.
Speaker 1:And so I will literally take time when I could be talking to people, or when I could be prepping or praying for the sermon, or whatever the case may be, like going over my notes one more time. I will take time to walk through different spaces and say, hey, this is what I'm saying, this is how I, and so I want you to see, see it how I see it and then allow them to do that Right. A lot of those so like uh, for me it takes time, like, it takes effort, it takes missing the mark a week in, a week out, like we've had, we got leaders even here in our ministry. Now that, uh, I'll go like hey, I know you saw that and I know you know I saw that and I know you know that, I know that, you know that, I know you saw that.
Speaker 1:Like I know you saw that and so, uh, that's where it is. It's. It's really about like, hey, it's not about me. Yeah, it's not about me and I'm secure enough in who I am as a leader and who I am, uh, as a pastor and all those things, to allow other people to do things and to mess things up and to, but also to get it right and to do it better than me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because eventually they will do it better than you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I have to be okay with that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:We talk about this. You know a lot on on on vitals, not just the podcast but on all the other resources that vitals and the concept of five vitals from book of acts is a is a movement from the attractional model to a missional model yeah, right and I think this is one of the things that one of the good things about the attractional model was it.
Speaker 2:It taught us to value excellence, and so we all leveled up yeah, okay, let's, let's, let's fix that. You know those, those lights that flickering, let's get that sound issue worked out, all of that kind of stuff. It taught us a level of excellence, but, but one of the downsides is it also taught us that we needed to control with our own gifting and as as the leaders, we needed to be the one that was like front and center most of the time. And I think one of the things we're seeing now is we're seeing this movement towards missional, which really, in a sense, is like okay, let's put students back in student ministry again. Right, let's put the mic back into the hands of students again. They need to own, and that's part of the mission that they need to own it, and I'm watching you do that here at our home church and our youth ministry here. Caleb, you've been working really hard to make that shift towards. I got to get higher levels of ownership among my student leaders. What's that been like for you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it's again, it's living with the, it's living in the mess of it. And what I really want to know from Reggie actually is like the developmental side, I think, is the one that I'm always trying to tweak how do we develop people so not just like giving them tasks, but then like equipping them to actually handle those things? And your line you said that was so good, it's we don't. We don't, what was it? We don't give people tasks to just yeah, we.
Speaker 1:We don't use tasks to develop people. I'm sorry. We use tasks to develop people. We don't use people to get tasks done.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely so, that developing side of it.
Speaker 1:what does that look?
Speaker 3:like for you guys, and uh, yeah, talk us through that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's about giving them real responsibility, not just tasks, right? So I don't give them. Here's a list of things I want you to do. I give. We talk about this. We talk about outcomes over outputs, right? So, like, hey, this is the outcome I'm looking for. I want, when people walk in, I want them to feel welcomed, I want them to feel the so sometimes we'll even talk through like the senses this is what I want people to feel smell, taste, if you're talking about snacks, like this is what I want them to all those different things. I want them to see that it's clean. I want them to see a smell, a good smell. I want them to see that. Or I want them to feel welcomed. I want them to hear good music in the lobby and I want them to hear silence. Right, so I talk about. A lot of times.
Speaker 1:We'll talk about like outcomes over like, this is exactly what I want you to do. I said, hey, this is what I'm looking for, this is what I'm looking for. Now you figure out how that looks to you and then we can go back and we can review. Okay, hey, this didn't really make the mark, or this. This is what I mean when I say this, when I say this, this is what I mean, right, and so language is really big for us.
Speaker 1:But also, like, the biggest thing we talk about is outcomes. I want our student leaders, I want our adult leaders, I want our teams to know the outcome that we're looking for, not necessarily how to get something done. Yeah, because that's what creates ownership, that's what creates a sense of like, worth over like, hey, I'm just doing the seven things on this checklist that Pastor Caleb gave me or that Pastor Reggie gave me. I'm not, I'm, I'm actually owning this. Like I get to be a part of the, the vision of this, and to like, tweak it and hear there, and so that takes time, that takes a review, right, that talks about a regular mentorship, regular feedback of like, hey, um, I know you think, like, we have people that, like, cleanliness is different levels to different people, right, things look clean to you that are definitely not clean to me, right, and so, uh, that's the messiness of it. But it's like, hey, um, I had a pastor say clean to me, right, and so that's the messiness of it. But it's like, hey, I had a pastor say this to me you get what you inspect, not what you expect, and so regular feedback is really important for us, and leadership starts with a responsibility, not a microphone. So I won't put necessarily a student or a young adult up on the microphone just because they're flashy or they're cool or they've got the right swag or they hold the care of their Bible and they got all the signal. I'm looking for faithful people who will do the thing right, who will uh I tell you this earlier, we were off here.
Speaker 1:I look for fat kids, right. I look for fat kids. I look for kids that are faithful, available, teachable. I always say like I want. I want those fat kids around, because it's usually not the jock, the most influential kid I had a kid. I love this kid to this day. He's an amazing young adult and he was one of the best players on the football team, captain of the baseball team, was on the basketball team, was on the track team, so like. He was at youth group like four weeks a year and I'm like man, this is an amazing kid, but he's not going to be a student leader because he's not here, and so I really tried to invest in the kids that were going to be there majority of the weeks, not because the kids are more important, but because those are the kids that are faithful, available and teachable, and then I can really invest my time in and show them how to do this and walk them through what steps I took to get the outcomes I want. Yeah, so good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh yeah, I was going to say I've. I mean, I I relate to that in that I think every youth group has the kid who's like super influential, but they're never there. You're like, I wish you were there, yeah, and sometimes you can. I mean, I found myself like chasing those who aren't there, rather than shepherding the flock that's already around me.
Speaker 3:That's like feed me. You know they're like hungry and ready. Uh, yeah, and it's like man, yeah, do what god has given you. You know, steward what god has given you and the people it seems like you, it seems like that was Jesus' model too. It probably was. I mean, they weren't necessarily the superstars, the disciples were all the fat kids right.
Speaker 1:They're just like where else will we go, Lord, when else? We got nowhere else to go? I got nowhere else to go.
Speaker 2:So, Reggie, with the time we have left, transition into talking a little bit about what leadership development looked like for your adult leaders. You know, like the adults that were volunteering in your ministry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's important for adult leaders to treat them as an integral part of the ministry team, right, they're not just like volunteers, like they're leaders, right. And I think we oftentimes will look at volunteers okay, they show up 10 minutes before service starts or 10 minutes after right. And I think we oftentimes will look at volunteers okay, they show up 10 minutes before service starts or 10 minutes after right. They stand in the back of the room and they're just kind of like nannies or behavior modification shepherds, like no, no, hey, you're going to be a small group leader, you're going to be a volunteer, we're going to offer training, development. So we always did like monthly leadership developments, monthly team meetings. So we're developing them, we're giving them clear lanes and consistent feedback and real ownership of different areas.
Speaker 1:We also believe like, hey, we're supposed to pastor our leaders before we expect them to pastor students. We're going to pastor them before we expect them to pastor. So if I expect them to lead a small group, I better be leading them and pastor them a shepherd, and know what's going on in their lives before they come in and bring all that baggage into their small group. Right, and they're dealing with something at home and they have nobody to talk to about it. And then they're coming in and just dumping on their middle school small group and you're like oh, I don't know why you're talking to the kids about this, because they haven't been able to process it anywhere else. And this is what I know. Students will always rise to the level of trust you give them, but adults will rise to the level of clarity you give them.
Speaker 1:And so we've always tried to give leaders clear lanes, to give them, I mean, we have like real job descriptions, like as if they were working for us. Job description hey, this is your expectation, these are the expectations you give them, these are the we need you at these things. Like, hey, if you want to be a small group leader, that's a real commitment. I can't have you miss half the weeks of the year. Right, you can't invest in somebody that you're not here. And so, if you're going to be that, this is a commitment you're making.
Speaker 1:Clarity is kindness. We preach that around here often that clarity is kindness. And so, when it comes to our adult leaders, we treat them like they're a part of the team, not like they're just adults or moms and dads who are just walking in to help chaperone. We train and develop them, give them opportunities. We even like even now on my young adults team, we have some folks that are leaders and table host leaders. I give them opportunities to preach as well, like it's not just me preaching, it's our adult volunteers who have those giftings and communication that can really preach. Well, why would I just leave that for me? Because my job is the pastor. So, giving them clear lanes and then pastoring them as well, as is the ways I found to be the most successful when it comes to adult leaders.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Well. And and when your leaders are great? Honestly, students remember way more what they say than anything that I preach.
Speaker 3:Every time a student comes up to me and is like, well, it was great. It's usually not like your sermon was awesome. It was like my leader prayed for me, or my leader said this about me, said this to me, or my leader was at my baseball game this past week. It's like. Those are the moments when it's like, okay, the youth ministry is so much bigger than just me and that's why I know it's great, that's another one of the shifts that's taking place in youth ministry from attractional to missional.
Speaker 2:So, as attractional taught us, what students will be most impacted by is the quality of your preaching on week in, week out, right, and now the data confirms.
Speaker 2:Well then, you might be a great preacher and that's awesome and you should work hard at that right. But the data says they're going to forget a whole bunch of what you say and most of their memories, their impactful moments in youth ministry, is going to be built around a relationship that they have with either their friends or adults that have significant impact on their life. So, like, if I, if I said to you, if I said to you guys, like, like I'll give you like 30 seconds to write down the titles of the top five sermons that have changed your life, we probably couldn't even write down the titles of five sermons we've preached, right, let alone someone else preaching them to us. But if I said to you 30 seconds and write down the names of five people that have impacted your life significantly, yeah, wow, that's easy. Yeah. And what we're seeing now, what you're saying there, Caleb, we're seeing that shift taking place. It kind of reemphasizes everything Reggie's saying Absolutely, and how important our leaders are.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, even I bet students will remember a message when you give an opportunity to a leader or a student leader to share way more than they'll remember a message that. I preach Right, because it's like, oh my gosh, he's up there and I have a relationship with them and they've been pouring into them and it's this, yeah, yeah, into them, and it's this, yeah it, yeah, I, I, the more opportunities you can give.
Speaker 3:It is living in that tension of like, okay, it's not gonna be as good, but with the end goal of eventually, they'll probably be a better leader than I could ever be and if my leaders are better than I could ever be yeah, and honestly, if students relationships are not based on what I give them, but what their leaders give them, it's like yeah, that's a hard transition to make, though, because I mean I became a youth pastor because I was a great youth leader. So then it's like that's a hard transition to make, though, cause I mean I became a youth pastor because I was a great youth leader. So then it's like, oh man, I'm no longer that guy for some of those kids, but I need to be that for my youth leaders. Is that shift?
Speaker 2:And when I became a youth pastor, I felt like this is my moment. I did I'm not saying that was good, I'm just saying like this is. I felt like this is my moment. So that's why the microphone's in my hand, that's why I'm preaching, that's why this is my mom, this is what I've worked for, this is what I went to school for this. So this is my moment. So that was that complicated the shift for me of it's not about me, it's about you know the students and the leaders and you know all that and we've kind of all you know shared.
Speaker 2:You know like, yeah, we've all. We all go through that, right, yeah, so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So for the, for the youth pastor who's like man, yeah, I want to do this. I want to start giving more ownership. What do you think are some easy first steps that like they could begin to take, Like put your coach hat on for a second. What are things they can start to implement now?
Speaker 1:Day one, a leadership development program with clear milestones. I would schedule regular one-on-one meetings with your adult leaders and your key student leaders. Here's the biggest thing is don't wait until they're perfect. Invite them when they're available. Right, like we said this look for the fat kids. Like, who are the? Put your list of like hey, here are my fat kids in my youth ministry. You don't need a scale for this, right From faithful, available, teachable, but. And then you create opportunities and start with small opportunities. Right, right, like, do not despise small beginnings. Right, like, start small opportunities. Allow them to help with checking. Allow them to help with like, welcome, allow them to do the announcements. Like. I became the announcements intern at my youth group. Like, I was giving announcements every single week and guess what, on Sunday mornings at church. Now I do announcements most of the time.
Speaker 1:And so like. But it's like, and people ask like, are you? And I was like, no, I've been doing this for 15 years, man, like. But because it was somebody that gave me the microphone and didn't have to do everything and didn't have to be the rockstar youth pastor. He just said you know what I'm going to let you do it, I'm going to get you to let you get up there and say stupid things on the mic and have to correct you afterwards and you know what? All those things got coached out of me.
Speaker 1:So create opportunities for people to lead. Create opportunities for people to do different segments, whether it's hey, we do this thing in our context now in our young adults ministry, we call it the 180 moment, where we talk about we just allow students to share their testimony, for you know, 180 seconds about how God which three minutes how God took their life from before Jesus, when I met Jesus, and after my life met Jesus. I don't need any of that. One of our interns, one of our volunteers. He finds the people, he gets their stories, he goes over it with them, he reviews it with them and then he practices it with them, and then they do it.
Speaker 1:I don't even know who the person is a lot of times, until they're up on the stage, which is probably not a good idea. But I have that much trust in that individual to do exactly what I know they're going to do and what I've asked them to do. And so we found a little bit. And this is what I tell youth pastors and what I would like to tell anybody listening to this is hey, don't just prepare a message, prepare messengers. Right, like we're called not to just write a sermon, but Jesus prepared his disciples with the message to go out, with the message to go out, and he prepared his messengers to preach the gospel. And I think we have to do the same thing, not about just preaching my sermon, but about actually preparing people to go with the gospel, to go out with the good news.
Speaker 2:I love it. Yeah, yeah, dude, this has been so great. Reggie, thank you so much, man, for just pouring into the Lead, the Gen fam and everyone that's a part of this podcast. This has been great and I think, super helpful and practical. Right, you know like, sometimes we benefit from guests on the podcast that challenge our thinking, you know like, and just kind of blow our mind and then you know, but you've given us something for our hand today. This is like here's just like practical things that we should be doing or that we need to be thinking about to develop our leaders, to develop our our student leaders and uh, dude, that's, that's a big deal. Man, there's a lot of people out there listening today. They're like, yeah, I, just this is, I can go to work right now, you know, because I got stuff to do, that's how I feel too.
Speaker 3:I'm like all right, sweet, I got some things I need to get to. That's why I always I feel fun being on this podcast, because I just get to listen to cool guys as youth pastors. I'm like sweet, I'm like the little undercover guy, it's awesome.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to co-host you. Who was good looking and had hair, you know, so I was like you fit the bill, man Wow.
Speaker 1:I'm just the pretty face.
Speaker 3:You're just the pretty face.
Speaker 2:Hey, reggie, people want to connect with you. Where can they find you online? Social, all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, on Instagram underscore Reggie Hill and then Facebook is just Reggie Hill.
Speaker 2:And I don't know, just ask Aaron and maybe he'll give me my stuff. Hey, and let me also say, like, if you're a youth pastor and you're looking for a guest speaker for an event you're doing, reggie travels a lot, incredible communicator, and so, yeah, hit him up, for sure He'll do a great job. He'll bless you, bless your ministry for sure. Thanks for blessing us today. Being part of this, reggie, this has been really great. If you are a faithful fan of the lead, the gen fam, and you're, part of the podcast fat kid, you're a fat kid right
Speaker 2:you're faithful man right, um, no, we just thanks for being a part of the vitals of for youth mystery podcast. We would love it, it would honor us so much, um, if you would give us a review, give us a like um, share it, subscribe all that stuff right yeah, whatever, whatever platform you're on youtube, apple, spotify, whatever but thanks for being a part. It's been really great, reggie. Thank you again, uh, for joining us as our guest. Caleb, the good looking face of the podcast.
Speaker 3:It's been great.
Speaker 2:And we'll see all of you on the next episode of vitals for youth ministry podcast.
