Igniting Evangelism, Modeling the Call, and Cultivating a Missional Culture

Phil Johnson shares how to create a youth ministry culture centered on missional living by modeling authentic evangelism and celebrating students who live out the Great Commission in their daily lives.

• Discipleship and evangelism should be integrated, not treated as separate ministry focuses
• Creating a missional culture starts with what we celebrate in our youth ministry
• Students often focus on their unique calling while neglecting the broader mission of sharing Jesus
• What gets celebrated gets remembered, gets repeated, and gets replicated
• Personal stories of life transformation carry more weight than theoretical teaching
• The priority should be falling in love with the mission before pursuing specific assignments
• Gen Alpha seeks adults who will slow down and walk with them through their questions
• Building a missional culture takes years of consistent modeling and intentional celebration
• Ministry leaders should not only share the gospel from stage but model evangelism in daily life
• Practical elements like mission trips and campus outreach reinforce missional values

Utilize the Vitals for Youth Ministry assessment tool with 25 questions that will give you a health score on each of the five vitals.

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Transcript

Embracing Missional Living

Phil 1:15

We wrestle with that question all the time of going, are people in love with the mission before that they run with the mission or the assignment that they feel like they've received or heard from God? And we do such a disservice to neglect the equipping of the saints, if you will, or just the next gen to be on mission in real time and to be having spiritual eyes open to see the opportunities that are right before them.

Eran 1:44

Hey everybody, welcome to Vitals for Youth Ministry Podcast. So glad you're here with us. This is a resource of Lead the Generation. My name is Aaron. I got Caleb in the studio with me.

Caleb 1:54

Excited to be here. Uh Rocking the Steelers hat. I was gonna say it's it's that time of year when we're recording, preseason's happening.

Eran 2:00

It's the only thing that matters in Pittsburgh.

Caleb 2:02

Fantasy drafts happening. Yeah, and I am like Michael Scott, like when he says this, I'm ready to get hurt again by the Steelers. I'm ready to be disappointed again.

Eran 2:12

Speaking of disappointed, we have a disappointed Timberwolves fan as our guest today. If we got Phil Johnson with us, Phil, I I love you. Sorry to come at you right out the gate. Dude, right out of the gate. We're excited to have you on the podcast today. I pray that you healed up from NBA playoffs earlier this year. Um, but he's silent right now. He doesn't even know how to respond.

Phil 2:33

Oh no, it's good. I recognize when hurt people hurt people, as Aaron as a Laker fan. That's just what I heard in that. It's true. That Luca didn't pan out initially. So we'll see how it all pans out. But yeah, as a Minnesota fan, heartbreak is near and dear to my heart for the Vikings, twins, wolves, all of the above.

Caleb 2:52

Oh man, so sad. Well, you know what? The Steelers were getting there. Now it just feels like when are we ever going to get out of this? But it's I don't know. Let's go, Aaron Rodgers.

Eran 3:00

Here we go. Team Aaron Rodgers.

Caleb 3:04

We'll put our bet on him. Well, Phil, for people who don't know you, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself? Uh, tell people a little bit about yourself.

Phil 3:12

Yeah, um, first off, just super honored and excited to be a part of this conversation. Um, Aaron, just what you've done for the last several years, especially with uh creating uh just uh relatable content for youth ministries from rural to city to urban, suburban, all that. I mean, you guys have done a phenomenal job of meeting a need that a lot of youth ministries had. So it's an honor to be a part of this conversation. Uh recently I've stepped into a role where I serve as the district youth director for the state of Minnesota Assemblies of God. And uh before that, uh served as a local youth pastor for a little over 15 years at three different churches. Come on. Uh most recently, it was uh Emmanuel Christian Center underneath the leadership of Nate Roosh uh for 11 years in uh just in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And so uh grew up in a small church in North Minneapolis of about 80 people. And so to see and be a part of the local church for, I mean, since I can remember, um, there's just so much uh to be thankful for and just grateful for uh just looking back and just God's hand on on this journey. And so, but yeah, learning what it means to be a district youth director and a DYD here. We just got done with camp season. We had four weeks of camps and uh lots of students, lots of students, but it was an incredible summer for sure and excited to be a part of the conversation.

Eran 4:31

Hey, tell us about your family, real quick.

Phil Johnson's Ministry Journey

Phil 4:33

Yeah, uh super spool with my family. My wife and I have been married 14 years. Um, she's my best friend, she's the funniest person I've ever met to this day. Uh, she'll get me like I'll be crying. I'm laughing so hard. She is the best. She's uh East Coast. She told me to make sure to say uh shout out to Aaron for being another East Coast person. Uh so she's from Erie, Pennsylvania. And so we met at North Central University. Come on. And uh so she is on staff at the church I previously served at. She serves as the uh executive over worship, production, communication, and uh, so she is uh art through and through. And then we have two boys, 10 and 8, Parker and Paxton. We are we joke that we're an introverts nightmare of a home. We are loud, active, all those things. And uh my 10-year-old is a big Chiefs fan. I tried to convert him to be a Vikings fan. We watched a little bit of the quarterback documentary and it backfired on me, and he just fell in love with being a Chiefs fan. And so he got out while he could. And then my eight-year-old, he just has that spirit of benia. We had to stop playing tag uh several years ago because he doesn't run, he just turns and swings on you, and uh he's a hoot. And then we have a dog, um Brady, he's a 13-year-old kakka poo. He's on his last leg, and so we uh showed the boys old yeller, and we're getting ready for Marley and me just to go.

Eran 5:57

Oh my goodness. You set the table well with old yeller, man. Have you Caleb, have you ever seen it? No, I have you're too young. I need to watch it. Add it to the list. Yeah, don't watch it. Isn't it sad?

Caleb 6:09

Is it like Marley and me? You're gonna cry. Okay.

Phil 6:12

Yeah, I'd say Marley and me is uh Marley and me for me is more emotional than old yeller. Old Yeller is a bit of that, like, that's my dog. Marley and me, you're like, this is just not right.

Caleb 6:24

Yeah, yeah, it's just sad. It just is like, I want to cry now and feel sad. Okay, all right, I'll add old yeller to the list of uh movies I need to watch. That's awesome. I know that you and Ans want to own a dog one day, so you probably should wait for it. We started with the baby, and so I think we got some time. Yeah, we didn't do the reverse. I know some people get a dog and then they have a baby, and then the dog is just no longer a natural order of things.

Eran 6:45

You went with a dog first? Dog, then babies. Yeah.

Caleb 6:47

Okay.

Eran 6:48

Well, I philosophically, here's what I believe. If you are incapable of training a dog, you should not be allowed to bring a human into the world.

The Youth Pastor Story

Caleb 6:57

Yeah, that's fair. That's a good test, right? You start with a dog. Yeah, that's uh that's a good way to tell if you shouldn't be a parent or not. All right. So I just went straight to baby, so who knows if I can take care of a dog or not. I guess we'll find out. You'll find out. Your kid's still alive, you're seven months, you're doing good. Yeah, yeah, he's still alive. So uh that's a good thing. All right. Well, anyways, let's uh let's just jump to the next thing then. So uh, you know, Phil, we love bringing youth people uh youth pastors on because they, you know, always have interesting stories in their youth ministry tenure. Uh, I say it's like a plague of stupid that tends to follow them, whether it's you or a youth intern or a youth leader uh or a youth student just doing something stupid. And so uh we love hearing what youth pastors, their stories that they have to share. So the table is yours. Go ahead and share uh your youth pastor story because everyone seems to have one.

Phil 7:48

Oh man, I feel like if I was to write a book, my first one would be like all the different mistakes and letdowns and all that. What's uh Aaron, you could correct me if I'm wrong. On the there's a leadership passage, it goes leadership is failing people at the rate they can digest. Ooh, whoa. And uh I feel like that's I I mean, I'm a product of that. And so uh I think one though that was just funny. I you know, listening back to some of the stories that have been shared, one that I'm like, you know, this will stand out, it's super gross. And and uh I'm glad you said, Cale, this would not be shared on the dinner table because this one usually is one like you don't want to have food around. But I was speaking at a middle school camp, you know, a junior high camp where all great stories begin. And I was speaking and I'm like looking around and I notice there's like this little commotion in the back. And you know, I'm trying not to like divert too much from the message, but I'm also wanting to give attention to what's taking place in the back. And I notice there's this young man, he has his foot over his knee, and he's kind of picking around. And, you know, I kind of lean in a little bit more and I notice he's not just picking around, but what's happening is he's taking dead skin off the bottom of his foot and he's eating it.

Eran 9:03

No, I knew it. I just knew it. I was cringing before you ever said it.

Phil 9:10

And it was the most difficult message I've ever preached as I'm trying to stay focused on where we're at, watching this junior hire the entire message, just picking at the bottom of his feet, in between his toes, bringing his hand up to his mouth. It was, like I said, it's not like necessarily a youth pastor fail, but it was one that I'm like, a youth pastor's story is one that stands out to me as one of the most difficult messages I've ever preached. And if it's a fail, I'm like, maybe I was just that boring. And according to Terry Parkman, why maybe need to keep my message to 20 minutes? Because at 40 minutes, they start eating dead skin off the bottom of their feet.

Eran 9:52

Please tell me you're preaching about dead things coming back to life. Like I I wish.

Caleb 9:59

I wish, I wish. And this young man in the front, he gets it, he knows it. Oh man. Oh no, that was the whole message? The whole message. It was the whole message. Oh message. I wonder what it tasted like. That's where my mind goes. I know that's so nasty. Is that what you but that is my first thought? That's just like, I wonder what, I wonder what was meaningful.

Phil 10:20

Pastor Aaron, it may or may not have been at a camp of two of our friends that we referenced in previous podcasts. Oh, you were probably, yeah.

Caleb 10:28

I mean, just yeah. That's the thing. The that's a thing that can only happen for a youth pastor. Like lead pastor, kids pastor, kids pastor, maybe, but I feel like middle school is they're just at that perfect age where there's not a lot of awareness and there's a lot of trying to do that.

Phil 10:46

You're not getting that in a C-suite conversation, like Carrie Newhoff has been talking about how he was counseling, like, hey, dude, this guy that I was coaching just took his shoes off, starting dead skin off the bottom of his seat.

Eran 10:57

It's like, it's like that that comedy routine from Michael Jr. where he talks about being proud of his middle school kid because he just said he wants to be a doctor, and he's like, Wow, I did it. Like I like, I mean, I raised a great kid. And then a minute later he was like, or, or maybe a dinosaur. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like that's kind of middle school, right? You never know what you're gonna get. Flashes of brilliance.

Caleb 11:18

Yeah. With 99% of it being eating dead skin out of the bottom of the cut. Yeah, yeah. That's incredible.

Eran 11:24

But you know what, Phil? You you might get to heaven, and that kid might be like, Man, there was this camp speaker and changed my life. And he doesn't remember that he was eating skin off of his feet the whole time.

Phil 11:36

He's every word he was locked in.

Caleb 11:39

That's right.

Phil 11:39

He might have some dead skin in a Ziploc bag that's reminding him of that moment. Who knows?

Caleb 11:44

I saved it. Yeah. You're about to have the two middle schoolers too, who are gonna be you know, eating the dead skin, right? You got the 10 and the eight.

Phil 11:51

Oh, dude, I've mentally prepared of the phone type of phone calls I would get from my kids. Right? We don't want to have the entitlement, right? Uh, it's you know, our oldest would be the phone call for what he said. Our youngest would be the phone call for what he did.

Eran 12:08

I feel like Phil's gonna be like like right before they go to their first middle school camp, he's like, Boys, I just want to tell you a story real quick about what not to do during the service.

Celebrating What Matters

Phil 12:18

Yeah. No, I'm I'm nervous because they know the campground now. Like, you know, they're up with us at the campground all this last year. And we had a moment uh where we realized, like, oh, we're not at camp anymore because you know, they're just roaming the campgrounds and uh, you know, freely going about wherever they want to go. We get back home and you know, I get back from work, I'm like, dude, where's our kids? And my wife's been looking for our son. He just went met a new friend two blocks down and was just hanging out their house because he was so used to roaming campgrounds. I'm like, dude, this is not the campground. I know we're extroverts, but there's there's lines, my guy. He's like, Oh, I just met him 15 minutes ago. We're friends now.

Caleb 13:00

I went to his house. Hey, that's actually, you know what? That's awesome though, in terms of like, I feel like Gen Alpha Gen Z, like not just being on their phone and going out and doing something like that. I'm like, that's great. That reminds me of when I was a kid. And now I'm that old guy saying, I reminds me of when I was a kid. I can't believe I'm on that side now.

Phil 13:16

Dude, you're new to this parenting thing at this point, right? Yeah, yeah. Aaron and I are both stressing out. I'm like, dude, where is my eight-year-old?

Eran 13:23

Yep, yep. I mean, I just I moved my 19-year-old to Nashville last year, and I'm like, wait a second, you're gonna go live in another city all by yourself? Like, what how what is life right now? It's just crazy, but um, all right. So, amazing story. Thank you, Phil. Uh, good laughs right there. Uh very unique, too. We haven't had that. We've we've not had any dead skin eating, you know, stories before. Check that off the list. Yeah, we can check that this is good. Um, we want to talk with you. We kind of we kind of want to do a deep dive with you, Phil, on the topic of missional living. Um, we call this podcast Vitals for Youth Ministry because it comes from a resource uh from Lead the Generation called Vitals for Youth Ministry. Five vitals that we build our youth ministry around, five vitals that we want to see imparted into the lives of our students that we are endeavoring to turn into disciples of Christ, right? So all found in the book of Acts, chapter two, biblical truth, spiritual transformation, healthy community, missional living, leadership development. Right? So let's talk missional living, right? You have 15 plus years of youth ministry experience, youth pastoring experience, um, plus now your your new role as a district youth director. When you think missional living, when you think the value of that in a local church youth ministry, when you think the value of that in uh one of our students, right, what are some of the big thoughts that come um first into your mind when you're thinking missional living?

Discipleship and Evangelism Reunited

Phil 14:44

Thanks for teeing that up, Aaron. Yeah, I think for us looking back at what we've tried to do of that phrase living life on mission, right? I know it's one that we're super familiar with. And for us, you know, we look at Matthew 28, we look at just, you know, the whole purpose of Jesus coming to this earth. And when it comes to the development of baseline theology for our middle schoolers and high schoolers, it's hey, are you more in love with the mission, right? The mission of like why Jesus came, than it is some of these additional layers to it. I, you know, one of the things that Terry kind of touched on in the previous podcast that, you know, for us we've really tried to capture the last 15 plus years has been, hey, before you feel called to a career or you feel called to a people group or a country, like you have it has to be on an overflow of this deep commitment and ownership of the mission to go into all the world and to make disciples, to preach this good news of Jesus, the Son of God, who came to die for the sins of this world, who rose again three days later and left the gift of the Holy Spirit and one day will return. Like this, this good news of this is what Jesus has done for me, right? Um, I love how in a previous conversation you guys kind of had the, you know, evangelism and discipleship um over the last several years has been disconnected, but they need it's there's a marriage between it, right? Yeah, and it's so true because within the missional living is this ongoing testimony of uh can I tell you what Jesus has done for me? You know, one of the things that we've tried to weave in, even in messages that uh whether someone's new or it's you know just a regular Wednesday night message is going, Hey, here we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that I'm up here preaching, not because it is a job, but because of what Jesus has done for me. That Jesus has changed my life in such a way that I can't help but talk about him and what he has meant to me and now my family and the people that I get to do life with. That's because of Jesus uh and nothing else uh before that or after that, right? Like, and just to live this life on mission of being so about the mission of Jesus Christ and just like the Great Commission. And that is something that when we have programmed to begin to bring uh build that strategy and things of that nature, it's going, we have we wrestle with that question all the time of going, are people in love with the mission before that they run with the mission or the assignment that they feel like they've received or heard from God? And being able for students to uh decipher that because I think unintentionally, we can get really good at celebrating, you know, like when a student raises their hand and said, Aaron, your message was so great. I feel called to the mission field. And and we'll celebrate that, but we'll neglect the okay, well, what does that look like to share your faith or to be on mission in the hallway of your school? Uh, well, you know what? I'm just gonna go to college, I'm gonna take some classes, and then when I graduate, then I'll go on mission and be this missionary. Um, or then I'll go and share the gospel. But really, like we do such a disservice to neglect the equipping of the saints, if you will, or just the next gen to be on mission in real time and to be having spiritual eyes open to see the opportunities that are right before them. So to kind of like get the question rolling, right? Like that is something for us that we have in looking back and you know, just even this past year, with when we're looking at developing tools and integrating things for youth groups of going, how do we make sure we are elevated, like in spaces where the mission has not maybe been elevated to a place that it needs to be or it has kind of drifted, right? Or we've drifted our in focus and attention and energy. How do we make sure we're returning to that spot of making sure that the things that we are doing for God, right, are coming out of this overflow, this love and ownership for the mission and our own personal relationship with Jesus? Yeah.

Caleb 18:51

Yeah. I I so okay, to repeat a little bit, like you're saying oftentimes students get latched on to their unique calling that they feel like God has placed in their life, whether that's through giftings, through their personality, or through the specific area He's called them to. And then they tend to either skip over or completely ignore or wait until they get to that place to kind of latch on to the the broad mission that Jesus has called all of us to based on the Great Commission of Matthew 28, right? So I mean, I'll tell you, I totally feel that. That is like and I think culture really is is pushing find your unique purpose. What is the unique thing that you do? Do what you think you need to do. Uh Peter Reeves even talked about that of like we need to tell students to die to their dreams because what comes first is what Jesus is calling them to. And the first initial thing that all of us are called to as soon as we're saved is to begin to share the good news of Jesus. Yeah. So what does that shift look like? How do I what what are the perspectives we need to change, what practically needs to change in order for the right things to be in alignment? Does that make sense?

Phil 19:57

For sure. And I know you guys have a broad audience, so I think what I'm gonna speak to is what we've experienced and learn from kind of the trial and error side of things. You know what I love about people that have been in student ministry so long, and Aaron does a phenomenal job of talking about this, is oftentimes those first several years, you're really learning what to do and what not to do. I I joke that in my 20s, I thought I knew what to say, how to say it, what to do, and how to do it. And then in my 30s for student ministry, I now know what not to say and what not to do.

Caleb 20:30

That is sage advice.

Phil 20:31

And and you really begin like looking at, okay, God, like, thank you for your grace and patience of leaders above me and the patience of parents that have entrusted their students to our ministry. And then you begin to like, okay, God, this is what's working in our context. So I will share, I think, more so from our experience, what helped kind of capture the heart of like missional living that we saw a lot of just what we would consider biblical fruit, uh, just from some of those emphasis. And that really came back to wrestling with the reality of what were we celebrating, right? What were we celebrating from the platform? What were we celebrating within leadership? What were we celebrating on our social media? What were we celebrating with families? And really, this culture of celebration really began to form the culture of just living life on mission for us. Um, as you guys have heard, I know there's different iterations for different pastors and that have had this, but for us, it was what was celebrated gets remembered, gets repeated, and gets replicated. And so we just asked ourselves like, is this something we want them to remember? Why? Is this something we want them to repeat? Why? And then is this something we would love to see replicated as students are getting connected within the different ministry programs and discipleship pathways and development pipelines and things like that? And so for us, it was how do we communicate and celebrate this in a way that actually highlights this is a big deal? Because I think students, especially Gen Z and Gen Alpha, are really good at recognizing, oh, you're just you're celebrating this because uh this helps with numbers or this looks good, but really getting behind, like, no, we're celebrating this because this is a big deal that you not only brought your friend to church, but you actually are the one that had been praying for him for two months. And we are celebrating the commitment to stand in the gap. We call this intercession to pray for your friend. Let's celebrate the fruit of that. The a story that I use when it when it comes to this, we had a young man who grew up in the church, drifted away, got caught up in just a lot of drugs and alcohol, um, had an encounter with Christ that just brought him back to a place that he had drifted from, was so on fire for Jesus. Uh, we do these things every week called 180s. They're just testimony spots, opportunities for uh students to share who God is, who they were before God entered their story, and what's changed about their life now. And so this young man shared his testimony. And as he shared his testimony, he brought his friend from school. And his friend from school goes, Hey, Brandon's been talking about this Jesus the last several months. And I, as I heard him share, I'm like, I've seen that change in his life. Do you think that Jesus is someone that would love me? And Brandon was able to lead his friend to Christ out of his testimony. Now, the crazy part, the discipleship, Brandon began with his friend over the next six months. That friend then shared a testimony of what Jesus did in his life six months later. Only this friend then instead brought the entire track and field team. And out of those 18 students, 12 of them gave their life to Jesus and wound up becoming weekly participants. Wow, come on. And what we celebrate along the way was the commitment to prayer, right? Not just the numbers, but it was hey, this is what you did. And look at all that, those months of prayer. This is what matters. See how God moves through your prayers. Hey, see about those prayer moments, the discipleship. See those moments of staying after church, opening up your physical Bible, going through scripture, like see the fruit of that. And we celebrated that. And that was something that continues to be repeated then and uh remembered and replicated. So for us, Caleb, it was we went back and had to ask the question what are we celebrating? Why are we celebrating? And is this something that we want a part of our culture over the next several months that would highlight the missional living we desire every one of our students to be a part of? Now, the cost or requirement of that was for our youth ministry was we had to pause at different moments and go, hey, we actually have to have like data of measuring, are we really measuring or is this really working? And for us, that was done in quarterly, uh quarterly sectors for us. So we would pause and we would go like uh for us, it was okay, like, hey, where are we at with you know, salvations to baptisms to small groups to mission group or mission trip participation? Like there's all these different levers that we had in place that helped us measure, man, is this something that we are wanting to highlight when it comes to missional living in terms of students bringing friends, getting saved, getting water baptized, becoming biblically literate, um, you know, just being advocates, being lights into their school, starting Bible clubs or Bible studies. And those are just a few things that came out of answering those sets of questions. What are we celebrating? Where are we celebrating that? And is it actually helping us create the culture that we desire to see for a student ministry that is on mission?

Eran 25:41

Love it. You know, I I love the simplicity of what we're you're telling us, Phil, when you're saying just what are you celebrating? Because anybody can do that. Any size youth ministry, you you you might be listening, you might be watching, and you're just you know, you're a volunteer in a in a small context and you got 10 kids, but you're still celebrating something. Right. So I I love this, the practical advice that you're you're giving us there. Um and I will I'll just mention here, just because it kind of fits with what you just said, Phil, about um like asking yourself the question, not only what are we celebrating, but like what are we measuring, right? So we there is a tool that's a part of the Vitals for Youth Ministry resource library called our online assessment tool. Absolutely free. 25 questions, you can go take that, and it'll actually give you your health score on each of the five vitals. So it'll kind of help you identify maybe some areas where you can celebrate. Hey, we're doing really great, you know, in this area, but it'll also help you identify some areas where you maybe you have some gaps or you have some blind spots. I think we all probably have some blind spots in leadership. Absolutely. Um, so Phil, I want to come back to you, just a question about something you said really early on when we jumped into this topic of missional living. Um, you had talked about how there's been like this divide between evangelism and discipleship. Right? Jesus puts the disciples on mission in Matthew 28, go and make disciples of all nations, but now um we're kind of identifying there's a pattern that we see in a lot of churches and a lot of youth ministries where evangelism and discipleship are considered two separate things where they probably really biblically speaking should be one. So philosophically, why do you think that has happened? Why do you think we the church has kind of migrated that way? I just would love to get your your you know, your opinion on it, your hot take on that. Um, but also like how do we how do we put those back together into a more biblical, healthy way of viewing both evangelism and discipleship?

Personal Mission Before Platform Ministry

Phil 27:33

Yeah, I think it came from good motives, you know, like in some previous conversations you guys have hosted, I think it was meant well to like, hey, how do we provide additional time, energy, and focus by maybe separating them? But you know, they're all on a track to come back together. And I think there was good intentions that were meant, but but I think once again, when it comes to creating a culture that celebrates them holistically, right? That discipleship and evangelism. Because discipleship, when done well, well, just naturally out of an overflow of that, evangelism's taking place, right? And and we've uh I think for us, we have seen that done in such a way that, you know, friends that even uh, you know, their friends that are far away from Christ and their TikTok theology that they bring in, that there's enough of a biblical literacy because discipleship has taken place that where, you know, in times past I've seen where, oh, we have to lean on the leader and kind of like this old covenant style leadership of like, well, this is the person that talks to God, and they're gonna have the answer. But when discipleship has been done well, consistently in a way that helps like identify the tools that students have access to, right? That's the walking with, we are finding that that evangelism is just a natural overflow of that. And then in the sharing, like the evangelism, like the in a healthy model, right? Right, it's this is what Jesus has done. It's not walking out with fingers pointed. Uh, I grew up in a an evangelist house. So my my father was the one that was on the street corners, not with the sign yelling at people, but he had a guitar singing to people. I you know that about how much Jesus loves them, right? And that's awesome. But then I got to see modeled in our home, those people that my dad and his team were leading to Jesus on the streets of Minneapolis were all sudden sitting at our dining room table for Thanksgiving. Wow. Right. So like there was an overflow, like discipleship then began to take place. Or those that were being discipled now, we're they're out on the streets evangelizing with my dad and his team. So there was like for us, like for my brothers and I, we just saw it holistically modeled, and you shared Eric, biblically modeled, of just going, like, man, it it's both, right? It's not either or, but it's a both and um when it comes to the practice of that. And and that was just something that for me is just we saw it modeled, we saw it lived out in a way that were like, hey, why wouldn't this this be the way that we would go about that? Right. And so I think I was very grateful, you know, at the time I didn't maybe see how healthy it was. Um just being, you know, like, oh dad, don't, don't, why are we singing that song again? Or, you know, like dad, like, you know, are we really gonna like are we really gonna go down this street or like and just being a teenager in those moments, but looking back and just so thankful for uh my dad and and just how he modeled that in such a way that I'm like, oh, like that's how it could be done. And that's an example. And even seeing now, like my brother, he's a youth pastor here in Minnesota, and one of the youth leaders my dad discipled uh during that time. Their kids now are a part of my brother's youth ministry. Uh like to see the longevity of that and just to see the fruit of a process of you know discipleship done well, evangelism is an overflow of that, right? Evangelism is just naturally taking place. And so was thankful to see that modeled in that way. Cause once again, it's like, okay, like here's a blueprint. Now it does take time, right? You know, one of the things, and and Aaron, I'm sure you're seeing this with reports with Gen Alpha, Gen Alpha, like they are so much more spiritually open, right? Right. They want to go deep, but they're also spiritually open to a lot of different things. It's not just the church, but what really the cost of Admission for a conversation with Gen Alpha, what we've been discovering has been will you slow down long enough to have a conversation with me to answer the questions that are important to me. Because with Gen Z and millennials and all that, there's this celebration of how much can I get done in the least amount of time? How do I optimize? How do I, you know, what's the instantaneous, the streaming, all of that? But with Gen Alpha, even more so, they're going, Will you just walk with me with where I'm at and the life experience that I've lived? And it's a little slower than maybe some might like, but it's, I mean, they are taking it and it's finding good soil. And uh so that is something that even back to the question of the discipleship and evangelism, you know, finding that okay, youth pastors, like what if part of our answer to living on mission isn't doing more with in less time, but maybe it is like kind of you walk, look at the story of Jesus and the road to Emmaus, right? It's he could have gone and done all this stuff on a big public spectacle, but he walked with two people and just answered questions in real time in a manner that became personal and that they became advocates and went and shared and were light as well post uh um that conversation with Jesus. But that is something that we have seen just even with Gen Alpha coming out of that discipleship and evangelism kind of pathway, if that makes sense. But so I know I added a few additional items there, but something that we're seeing.

Caleb 32:46

Man, I feel like Gen Alpha too is such fertile soil for uh they they hunger authenticity. And so the idea of evangelism, I feel like is very natural to them once they catch it. And so I feel like there's such a huge opportunity for this. Um, and I love what you're saying of celebrating the right things and then also modeling for them, which really was what Jesus was doing for his disciples of modeling what it looks like. Um and so is that is it does it really just boil down to those two things of like when we celebrate the right thing and then we because I know I I I Is it really that simple? I know. Well, it's really easy, especially in the so I'm five years in, and it's it's easy to overcomplicate really simple things. You're also, I feel like the young mindset is to think like, okay, what's the instant fix? But all of this is the slow turning ship of culture that cannot be done overnight. Probably can't even be done in a year. This is like a multiple year investment of this is the place I'm trying to build. This is the culture I'm trying to set. Um so yeah, yeah. Is there anything additional on top of those things, or is it really just that me as a youth pastor, I should see part of investment for me is not only celebrating the right things, but me personally taking time out of my schedule to say, I'm gonna walk with him and model what it looks like to honor the first call in my life, which is to share the good news of Jesus?

Phil 34:07

Yeah, I I mean, and I know that's where there's so many great resources, and that's why we need people like Aaron in this world that's helping, you know, sharpen our tools and highlight the things that can help us go farther, faster. You know, for me, it's always gone back to uh, you know, I grew up playing sports and a lot of it, you know, came back to, man, what am I doing to get better? Yeah. What am I doing to make sure that when I step onto the court with my team, that I'm not costing them the game? You know, Dr. Liz Wiseman has a quote, uh, to top off your strengths and level off your weaknesses. And uh, so for me, it's always like kind of like that. That's been the approach. I know uh, you know, the the oversimplicity sometimes I I can fall into and just like, hey, like be the best at the main things, right? Make sure the main things are the main things. And so for me, one of the ones having boys in our house or 10 and eight-year-old that I've tried to just continue to go back to is like, hey, what does it look like for me to make sure I'm opening a paper Bible up? You know, not just hearing the word just on audible or just having it spoken to me. But when I'm discipling someone, do I have a paper Bible in front of like teaching them to go through the message? Like when, you know, we're driving like my boys now at this point, they they know why we have cash in the center council and snacks in the center council of our car, because we have this thing that anytime we see someone on the corner, like we always want to be able to do something for someone, even if it's not even a dog, just but it's living with eyes wide open and trying to model that, you know, and then even feeling personally challenged. This is not to project onto anybody else listening, but for me, I'm going like, man, I don't want the only time I'm sharing the gospel to be from a platform with a microphone. I don't want the only time that I'm offering uh an opportunity for someone to surrender their life to Jesus to be in a church setting where their parents drop them off or they're coming on a Sunday morning, right? That I want to go, God, open my eyes to see those opportunities to live on mission outside the church walls. And what I have just found that it's as that's been personal to me, it's so much easier to champion and celebrate that in the ministries that we lead because it's not something that you're clocking in going, okay, where are my opportunities? How do I coach? And what's the, you know, what what is, you know, what's Orange Curriculum have? What does Vitals have? What are, you know, what is what's this leader sharing about this topic? But it's going like, God, this is what I experience because what we do see with Gen Alpha, Gen Z as well, I'm sure Gen Beta will have story just wins out. You know, like when you go, hey, I know there's all this TikTok theology. Yeah, but I heard that, but let me tell you about this encounter or this experience that was just lived. You know, my boys and we just had this conversation with this young man, or I had a leader that told me the story about an interaction they had with this student because all of a sudden it's life on mission. It's in the trenches that we no longer have to just live off the stories told of old of man, let me tell you about this one time that this one person had this encounter about this healing. I'm like, no, I want to have those personal stories in my life. I want to be on mission in such a way that those stories are told in real time, not hey, let me tell you what happened 10 years ago at camp. Yeah. But it's going, hey, let me tell you what happened last week. That we saw a young person come in, they had a torn groin, they're on crutches. God physically healed them Tuesday night and they ran five miles on Thursday for missions. Wow. Let me tell you about like these are things that are happening in real time. But it starts with God, may I live my life with wise spiritual eyes wide open to see the opportunities before me in my community, in my world, so that I can respond to it. Because woe to me if I am to call myself a pastor and not look for those opportunities outside of the church walls. And so I know some of those things sound super simple, but for me, I think it just comes back to what are those practical things for me as a follower of Christ first before I'm a DYD to make sure that I'm fulfilling that call, that first call to be uh a follower of Christ on mission. And so I think that's what it comes back to for me. And then there's the overflow. And, you know, as Terry even shared in the previous one, I mean, we're gonna swing from attractional to munitional, and then we're we are so good at overcomplicating all these things in church world. Yes. And uh, but I think for me, it's just going back to the main thing, the main thing. I'll end with this. I'll all right and I'll send it back to you. But you know, my basketball coach for AAU used to always say, Johnson, if you get really good at doing the things that you can control, you're always gonna have a spot on the team. And so it was for me as a point guard, is don't turn the ball over, find your shooters and lock down on defense. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna do what I can control. I can't control if my shooters hit their shots, but we had some pretty good shooters that we played with. So that uh they made me look a lot better than I actually was. Yeah. But it was making sure that before even stepping into those leadership roles of going, man, I want to pay that price because if I don't pay that price as a leader, the teams that I lead and the families that entrust their kids to me, they pay the price to the lack of leadership that I've uh been willing to pay for. And so I think for me, it just comes back to the personal side of am I living a life on mission? And then just out of that overflow, championing and celebrating the right things in a ministry context to help, you know, plant seed, water seed that's been planted, that one day that they will become fruitful followers of Christ in their young adult years and adult years. That's so good.

Caleb 39:33

Man, that that really resonated with me. That the point of is the only time I'm sharing the gospel from the stage. I think that's a lot of youth pastors. And I wonder if that's also the reason why we feel like we see culturally in our youth ministries that so many students yearn for the specific calling that we are modeling for, which is from the stage, the specific thing we're called to, the unique gifting that we have, rather than what you're emphasizing here, which is me living a life uh that is just truly about following the Great Commission first and then the stage and everything coming as a second as a byproduct. I wonder if that's part of the reason why we feel that way, that they have kind of been switched in order, is because of maybe the way we even approach our own ministry.

Phil 40:19

Well, to even shout Aaron out, I've seen Aaron model this in real time at conferences where Aaron will find the person that's sitting by themselves and he'll strike up a conversation and he'll get to know them. And they have no idea who Aaron is, but Aaron will genuinely lean in to take an interest in who they are and figure out like what are the areas, like why are they at this conference? What's their point of tension that they're wrestling with, and not just go, hey, here's everything that we can offer you. But I've watched Aaron model this of just like the doing life with people, not because he's even the speaker at that conference, but to see that, and that's where I think, Aaron, where you have such a respect of when you walk in a room, is people have watched you model that off the platform outside of conference circles. And just to even shout you out and and and give you honor, just watching how you've modeled that for the years and years that I've known you and sat in those seats and watched and been a um just a benefactor of those moments and that intentionality. I just want to say thank you that you've modeled our life super well when it comes to intentionality and life on mission.

Eran 41:20

I I love the practicality and the simplicity of what you're sharing. I appreciate you um say it's so kind of you to share that about me. But um I'm thinking about you know, whether you those that are watching, listening, whether you're full-time vocational, been in youth ministry for a long time, where you're just getting started, or you find yourself like part-time, bivocational, or even volunteer, right? Um the simplicity, the uh the authenticity of what you just shared in our conversation today, Phil, is so moving because it's like, okay, how do I change the culture in my youth ministry? How do I set the table for our ministry to be more missional? All right, I'm gonna celebrate when I see a student living the life on mission. That's something that everybody can do in any size context, and I'm gonna model it with my own life. And again, that's something anybody can do. It doesn't matter whether you got a bachelor's degree and you know, youth ministry or theology or whatever, you know, like this is this is just following Jesus 101. You know, we're just I I'm a follower of Christ first before I am um the guy or the girl with a a title of pastor on a stage with a microphone, you know. And so um I just I appreciate the simplicity of that film. I think we need that. We need moments like this to kind of just refocus in and redial in on like what's this thing all about?

Caleb 42:42

Right.

Eran 42:42

Because it's easy, you know, we can get overwhelmed, the strategy and philosophy and methodology and Gen Z, Gen Alpha, you know, like all the you know, the shifts happening in our culture, right? And that's all that's all good stuff. I love all that stuff. I think it's great.

Caleb 42:58

That being said, this is a really like it's a big commitment too. Like the as as simple as it is to say this is who I want to be and this is what I want to do. Yeah, it is a long-term, not sexy commitment to make, which I again, I think when I think about me, I think especially early on, I was looking for the sexy, the easy, the quick things that we can instantly plug into the youth ministry, and it's like this will fix it, right? Yeah. Um, but it's a long-term commitment that will, man, it it is it is the the one that will produce fruit because we see it's modeled in the Bible, yeah, and we see that Jesus modeled that too. Absolutely. So I love, yeah, I love that you just kind of echoed what scripture even tells us to do in that way. And I think this is gonna be yeah, huge for so many youth pastors and youth leaders. Phil, thank you so much, man.

Eran 43:46

You were getting ready to say something. Go ahead. Yeah, he did, yeah. Yeah, go ahead.

Building Long-Term Missional Culture

Phil 43:50

I want to hear I was just uh echoing what Caleb shared, uh, you know, like the years I, you know, for us, I was 11 years at a manual, and there's a very specific like some cultural items that took years one through seven. And I share with pastors that when they were recently coming uh to a manual to say, hey, we want to learn how to do A, B, and C. And I would share, like, hey, I'm gonna give you years one through seven because you see years eight through eleven and you go, that's cool, I want that. Yeah. But here's years one through seven of what took for us to get there. And so it is a commitment. And most of the time for the youth pastor, you don't get the credit, it's the small group leader or it's the volunteer that's gonna get the credit for that. But you know, it's some are called the plant, some are called the water, some are called the harvest. And, you know, for us, like, you know, I just feel called a shepherd and uh making sure it's the right things are being celebrated, the right things are being focused on. And so, no, it's been uh a blast just having this conversation. You guys are ones that I know if we were in person, uh, this conversation would have gone much, much longer.

Caleb 44:52

Well, that's why we need a timer on us, too, because we can just we can just keep going.

Eran 44:57

And and there was, you know, a lot of stuff I didn't say early on about the Lakers and the Timberwolves.

Caleb 45:02

Yeah, that was off screen before we started recording.

Eran 45:05

I just I just decided we'll just uh he's a guest, Phil's a guest, I want to treat him with honor. And you were so kind to me anyways, Phil. So we'll uh we'll have that conversation in private. But um, no, this has been this been so good. My encouragement to those of you, um, if you're still listening all the way you know here to the end, um uh take to take what Phil said to heart. Ask just ask yourself the question Am I am I modeling this in my youth ministry? And what am I celebrating? Um whether intentionally or unintentionally, what is it that I'm celebrating most often in my youth ministry? Um, and then I think it would be valuable for you, it'd be a good resource for you. Jump on a Lead Generation website, grab that online assessment tool, 25 questions, it'll take you about 10 minutes, it'll give you a good health checkup, you know, and you'll be able to see, you know, here's some areas where we probably need to put some focused attention, you know, in order to build our youth ministry around the vitals. Um and I've discovered, and I don't I don't know, I mean, Phil, you might have a thought on this um as we're we're I know we're kind of laying in the plane here, but when we see a lot of the um assessments come back um from different youth ministries across the country that have used that tool, um the the number one pattern we see is youth ministries that rate really low or score very low in missional living. Any any just random thoughts as to why you think that might be a pattern that we see?

Phil 46:26

Yeah, I I know I'm in an outlier state uh when it comes to with Minnesota and missions giving and missions trips, but I found that, you know, for us building out that initial culture of some very tangible, practical things, right? It's making mission trips a yearly thing and not a bi-annual thing. I know it there's a commitment to time, energy, and finances, but there's something so special, like when you are giving students an opportunity to put feet to their faith in those spaces that whether it's um, you know, if their church does kingdom builders, like, hey, going to visit a kingdom builder partner uh as part of their mission trip. Or for us at Speed the Light. And, you know, our trips that we try to go and visit for those trips, uh, for a speed the light partner, so our students can see in real time just kind of the impact they're making. But then also on the back end of that, it's like, you know, there's the emphasis of, hey, what are you doing at your school? You know, like uh we have something called Youth Alive, and you know, we we do like Youth Alive one days and things that bring emphasis and value to being on the local campus. Like, hey, you might feel called to be a missionary one day to another country or a worship pastor that does not negate you from, you know, a responsibility as a Christ follower to your local campus to be light into the darkness. So some of those practical things I think, you know, missions trips, missions giving, um, sometimes that you pastors just have not seen modeled maybe previously. Um, but that's one of the things that, you know, stepping in the role here, I know I'm on third base. I stepped into a role that uh Mark Dean, who is a DYD for over 25 years, and then Kirby St. John, who is in my role for seven years, modeled that so well that it's deep in our culture of just some of those practical outlets of reinforcing missional culture by just uh getting different experiences that expose students beyond um just their own local context to see it in a broader scope and a more holistic scope. Those are some things that I would just wonder, like as they're taking that assessment, how like what's the frequency maybe of you know, mission trips and uh missions, outreach and outreaches that they that they do in their community and how often those are taking place um to kind of put that in front of their students. But I know I'm in an outlier spot with Minnesota for sure.

Eran 48:47

Yeah, but you're modeling something really well, and you're not just modeling the the top end of it, like the look at the record we set and giving and all of that, but you're also modeling the simplicity, right, yet challenging aspect of like are we modeling this at the local level, local church youth ministry, local youth pastor, youth leader, volunteer? What are we celebrating? All of it's so incredibly helpful. So, Phil, thanks so much. Uh amazing and honor to have you on the podcast. And um just thanks for sharing from your life, from your experience. Um, we appreciate it. Um, Caleb, any any closing thoughts for us?

Caleb 49:23

Dude, I just yeah, I feel this is gonna be great. It's great for me too. I that's why I love getting to sit on this podcast because I just get to hear from great youth leaders and youth pastors and youth DYDs. And so, yeah, thanks for making the investment in so many of us. Um, because it really is it's the simple model you're setting that actually is making a huge difference.

Eran 49:42

So amazing, yeah, amazing. Well, thank you again, Phil. Um, thank you to those of you that are watching, you're listening. If you love the podcast, uh, we'd love it if you give it a subscribe, give it a like, uh, share it with somebody. Ding the bell. Yeah, whatever that is, a review, one of those five-star something or others. I don't know, whatever platform you're watching on. But thanks for joining us for this episode of uh Vitals for Youth Mystery Podcast. And now I can't wait to see you on the next one.