A Blueprint for Small Groups, Practical Leader Habits, & Creating a Culture of Belonging

We talk with Carrie Brooks about building a safe, Jesus-centered community where students can belong while they figure out what they believe. From a hilarious living-room play to a practical playbook for small groups, this is a master class in culture, habits, and care.

• Why belonging is the on-ramp to belief
• Five measurable habits for small-group leaders
• Structuring grade and gender groups that move up together
• Leading discussions where students talk more than leaders
• Using labs to practice Bible reading, prayer and evangelism
• Showing up at student events and building camaraderie
• Recruiting and retaining leaders through care and vision
• Creating low-cost, high-impact group events
• Why consistency and a three-month test matter

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Carrie Brooks 1:15

I think like it really shaped how I thought about youth ministry that there are so many places, and I say this to our our students at our youth ministry all the time, like you have so many places in your life that um have the potential not to be safe, right? Like the halls of our schools aren't really safe. Um, sometimes the the halls of your homes aren't really safe. So I want this to be the safest, friendliest, most welcoming place that there is, because when we have a community that is centered on Jesus, the one who welcomes us, who comes to where we are, who makes a way for us to belong, um, then then it should be a healthy community, right? It should be a place where everyone is welcomed and where they can belong while they're figuring out what they believe.

Eran Holt 2:03

Hi friends, welcome to Vitals for Youth Ministry Podcast. My name is Aaron, uh director of Lee the Generation. I got Caleb Leak in the studio with me today.

Caleb Leake 2:12

And it's a good day today because at the time we're recording, the Steelers won our first game.

Eran Holt 2:18

The weather's amazing.

Caleb Leake 2:19

The weather's amazing, and yeah, it's pumpkin spice latte season two, so it's just like we're hitting everything that makes it.

Eran Holt 2:25

And you know, you know, the the audience wouldn't know this, but the last time you and I recorded, it was like 95 degrees in here. Do you remember this? We were we were stuck to the chairs, and um, so we're we're excited.

Caleb Leake 2:36

It's a good day.

Eran Holt 2:37

It's a good day. It's it's a better day, though, because we got the one and only Carrie Brooks as our guest on the podcast. Carrie, what's up, friend? How are you? Hey, good. So excited to be here. Excited to have you with us. And uh, Carrie is no stranger to the Lead the Gen family. Um, you've been with us from the very beginning and have really helped lay the foundation for so much of what Lead the Generation is. But for uh maybe those that are a newer listener, um, as Carrie, tell everyone a little bit about yourself, your husband, your ministry. Give us some of the highlights.

Carrie Brooks 3:08

Yeah, so my name's Carrie Brooks. I have been uh married to my husband Isaac for seven years, just celebrated our seventh anniversary.

Eran Holt 3:14

Come on, yeah.

The Infamous Living-Room Homeschool Play

Carrie Brooks 3:16

And uh no kids, but we are hoping to get a house and a dog soon. That is like our focus and our dream. Um, and I am the youth pastor at Connection Church in Pottstown, Pennsylvania. Got an awesome group of students and leaders that I get to pour into every week, uh, going on 18 years of youth ministry. Which is crazy. Um yeah. And you know, when I'm not doing youth ministry, I'm hiking, riding my bike, or playing mini golf. Heck yeah.

Eran Holt 3:47

Let's go. Wow. I I can't youth pastors great hobby list right there, mini golf.

Caleb Leake 3:53

How often are you playing mini golf? That's are you like in a league?

Eran Holt 3:56

Are you like in a competitive mini golf league?

Carrie Brooks 3:58

Well, I oh, I wish. That would be so fun. My husband and I have this like goal in our marriage to play mini golf in all 50 states. And uh yeah, so we suck and we have we've done maybe like eight states. But who's better?

Eran Holt 4:13

Between the two of you, who's better?

Carrie Brooks 4:16

Okay, well, I'm gonna say me because Isaac's not on the podcast. But yeah, we just played over Labor Day. Um, and I schooled him by like 10 points. So I feel like that's a good, but that's the first time that's ever happened, so if I'm being honest.

Eran Holt 4:32

But and just for your benefit, Carrie, it's it's not points, it's strokes. So just want to, I just want to get your verbiage right.

Carrie Brooks 4:37

That's probably why they won't let me in the league.

Caleb Leake 4:40

Yeah, you don't know them at the league for that reason. Right. Dude, starting a league, I feel like a mini golf league would go crazy. That's a good idea. As long as you're not giving out points. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, you can call out points in that league. Oh my gosh.

Carrie Brooks 4:55

I got this crazy hole in one, though, when we were playing, and we were both losing our minds. We looked like idiots out on the all these families are there. They're just trying to teach their kid how to you know hit the ball, and I'm like dancing around.

Caleb Leake 5:07

So that's awesome. I've never heard someone say mini golf is a hobby, but I I absolutely love it. And uh, Carrie, you are a friend of Lead the Generation. So uh every time we have people on, we ask them for their youth pastor story. We have heard this youth pastor story, uh which means we're already excited about it. We're already excited about it because every time I hear it, I think it's hilarious.

Eran Holt 5:29

We were all sitting together for lunch one day, and uh, and so for the for those of you that are familiar with Vitals for Youth Ministry, you're familiar with Carrie because she was one of our contributors and she's a part of that whole project. And one of the days after we were done shooting some of our content, we're sitting around, uh, which is kind of where this whole idea came from. Legit, it's where it came from. We're sitting around just telling stories, and Carrie, you told this classic youth pastor story. Yeah. So the the floor is yours. We're really hyping this up, by the way. Oh no, but I think it's up to it. It will not disappoint.

Carrie Brooks 6:02

Yeah. So um, so in my first couple years of youth ministry, I was at this church that was kind of in a more rural area. And uh, I think as happens in rural areas, a lot of homeschooling families. And one of the things that I'm super passionate about um is showing up at kids' events. I I try now to, you know, hit as many as I can. I deploy my youth leaders to hit as many as I can because for me growing up, uh and we'll probably talk about this a little later, like my parents weren't at anything. So my youth pastor would show up and it it meant the world to me. So I was like, man, that's the kind of youth pastor I'm gonna be. And uh so I have all these homeschool kids and this one family, um, they're part of a co-op. They, you know, they're always getting together with other groups of people to do different things. Their kids played on like local sports things, whatever. They they tell me, hey, our kids are in a play. Um, could you come, you know, could you come to their play? And I'm like, heck yeah, I'll be, I'll be at this play. And so um, so the mom, the mom's like, all right, yeah, meet us at our house uh and we'll go to the play. So um I have I show up at the house at the time they tell me, and um, they're like, oh, it'll be like $10. And so I'm like, oh, do you oh, you want to do that now? Like, I'm at your door thinking I'm gonna pay at the play, but I'm like, that's fine. So I give the $10. And then their youngest kid, who's not yet in youth group, right? I have three that are in the youth group. This one that's not. Uh, he says, okay, follow me, please. And I'm thinking, like, I've been at your house before. Where are we going? And it turns out that this play is not part of a co-op. It is their family, their kids only in their living room. Their living room theater.

Eran Holt 7:44

And they charged you $10.

Why Safe, Welcoming Community Matters

Carrie Brooks 7:46

And they charge me $10. So I've given them my money now. I can't get it back. You know, I'm like, oh, oh, we're doing this. Okay. So I followed them into the living room. It is, you know, quite small. It would be as if, you know, Aaron, you're the audience, and Caleb, you're the stage. Okay. So it's like, it's just this tight little living room. They have put up curtains. I think there were bed sheets, actually, bedsheets, and they've built this little platform. And um, and this is uh 100%, as soon as the curtains are pulled back, I know this is a self-written homeschool plant. And like, like, look, I love homeschoolers, but this was wild, right? So this is like was long enough that they needed an intermission. And uh at the intermission, right, like the mom's like, Well, do you want to come into the kitchen for a snack? And I go in there, and they and they sold me popcorn. And do you remember how much it was like Meyer cookies? Yeah, do you remember how much it cost? I want to say it was like two or three dollars. Like it was, you know, whatever. Yeah, right. Well, and her the mom like popped it there there. I mean, I was like, you know, the production costs on this play must be must be high because bedsheets run a high high cost nowadays. That's yeah, it it went on for about four hours, and it was I I don't remember the whole play. Four hours. I don't remember the whole play. What I do remember is that um it was very clear that all of the kids really uh had not discussed what was happening in this play together. And it was like they were writing it as they were going. They all wrote their own parts. They're they're each kind of have their own character. The one thinks it should be a musical, and then the youngest one who's like very upset that he's not in youth yet, he's like jumping on the stage to like do his own performance. And the mom is sitting next to me and she's asking me these questions like, Don't you think they're doing a great job? And it's like, what how am I supposed to respond right now?

Eran Holt 9:45

The play by play from the mom.

Carrie Brooks 9:47

And then they needed an audience participation. And I and I think I did not say this yet, but the only person in the audience besides their mother was me. Like dad didn't even come to this play. And so, of course, now I'm part of, I don't remember what my uh my my role was, probably a barnyard animal of some sort, but I it just it was wild. Anytime they invited me to anything, I was like, where is it gonna be before I say yes?

Caleb Leake 10:13

Like, just want to.

Eran Holt 10:17

It's like just in the pool in the back. I have two questions. One, did you get a receipt so you could expense that to your budget afterwards? Right. And and two, how much therapy did you need after you were done? As you're driving away in your car, like, what just happened?

Caleb Leake 10:33

Well, four hours is a long musical for like musical standards, let alone homeschool in your house.

Carrie Brooks 10:40

I've had to some Broadway shows that were shorter than that. Like it was just it was wild. It was wild, yeah.

Caleb Leake 10:48

You are you do earn a like a star for that kind of thing. Like that's like that's a crown in heaven.

Eran Holt 10:54

Or or like to put it in like verbiage that you understand, Carrie, you get points for that.

Caleb Leake 10:59

Right. So wait, she does it one points. I monstrous.

Eran Holt 11:07

You get to deduct some points for that. There are there are extra jewels in your crown when you get to heaven, Carrie. Just just because you went and you survived and didn't come up with a like a compelling excuse or fake an emergency phone call in order to get out of it, you know. That's what I would be thinking. Like, dude, I gotta figure out. Oh my, I am so sorry. I can't even believe this is happening. Let's reschedule this. I gotta go.

Carrie Brooks 11:33

I feel like, you know, I feel like because it was so rural, my phone may not have worked at their house. Like, they're like reception gonna be. So I'm like, bro, I hope you're not watching. Like maybe he's like, but that must have been some other homeschool family, but I don't think so. Is he gonna hear this?

Caleb Leake 11:57

Is there a possibility?

Multiplying Vision Through Leaders

Eran Holt 11:59

I don't know. I don't know. Do you just want to give him a shout-out real quick? I mean, do you want to I do not just in case? Oh, amazing, amazing, amazing. Love it. You are youth pastor extraordinaire, Carrie. Um, just again, if we're even being willing to go. Okay. But this uh the your story actually sets up really well. Uh kind of where we wanted to focus our conversation at today, because we want to talk about healthy community. Um again, if you're familiar with vitals, you know this. If you're not and you have no idea what vitals for youth ministry is, go to leadthegeneration.com, check out Vitals for Youth Ministry. We have built, and it's all free, we have built a training platform for you as a youth pastor, as well as all your adult volunteers and your student leaders based on the framework of Acts chapter two. Five vitals you need to produce healthy disciples, biblical truth, spiritual transformation, healthy community. That'll be our topic for today. Yeah. Missional living and leadership development. So let's dive deep, Carrie, with you. When we talk healthy community, we're thinking we're talking about the culture of our youth ministry, we're talking about relationship building with our students, with our leaders. Um, I'm assuming we'll probably maybe even touch a little bit on small groups and maybe the value of creating some healthy small group experiences in our youth ministry. So, Carrie, just dump jump in for us. What are some of your big thoughts? Um, um, you know, you've 18 years of youth ministry experience. You think healthy community, um, you think about building relationships with students. Um, just kind of take us from the top and we'll just kind of work our way through some of um the ways in which you've done that in your youth ministry.

Carrie Brooks 13:29

Yeah, I mean, so I said kind of in my little uh intro to the story, um, you know, growing up, I didn't have a Christian family. And um, I also didn't have a very involved family. There was a lot of uh traumatic things happening at home. And so um I was involved in a lot of stuff, mostly to stay out of my house. And um, but like I would go, you know, I'd play soccer, run cross-country ski, because I grew up in Maine, like all these things. And um, and you know, at the end of games, at the end of races, at the end of band concerts, like all these parents would be like kind of flooding their kid. Oh, I'm so proud of you. And for me, I there that wasn't my experience. You know, I had uh a mom who really loved me, a dad who was kind of absent. And um, but just like there wasn't time for them to be there. And I remember toward my upper high school years, we got this new youth pastor, and uh, I'll never forget it. I was coming toward the end of a cross-country ski race. So not even like downhill where everybody gets to stand together, like cross-country, you've just been in the woods for you know 20 minutes and you appear all of a sudden. And I'm coming across the finish line, and there's my youth pastor bundled up, um, ringing a cowbell, because that's what you do for these kinds of races. And he's just cheering me on. And I like I got to the finish line and just broke because I thought, wow, well, this guy, like someone loves me. And it was like, I never had associated um how unloved it feels when someone's not at something that's important to me until that moment. And um for me, that was such a big deal. And uh, I think like it really shaped how I thought about youth ministry, that there are so many places, and I say this to our our students at our youth ministry all the time. Like, you have so many places in your life that um have the potential not to be safe, right? Like the halls of our schools aren't really safe. Um, sometimes the halls of your homes aren't really safe. So I want this to be the safest, friendliest, most welcoming place that there is, because when we have a community that is centered on Jesus, the one who welcomes us, who comes to where we are, who makes a way for us to belong, um, then then it should be a healthy community, right? It should be a place where everyone is welcomed and where they can belong while they're figuring out what they believe. And so that's really um community means a great deal to me because of that. And uh it's something that we work really hard to create in our youth ministry to have kind of a family culture. Um, it's not perfect, um, but in the in the thought of being family, uh, we try to model after, you know, what does God's family look like? Where we're all welcome, we're all wanted, we're all known, we're all loved. Uh, and and so we we have a couple of different things that we do that, but um, that's just kind of like the general framework, I think, for healthy community for me.

Caleb Leake 16:20

Yeah. Okay, I love I love that it comes out of your personal testimony, like the the framework for how you do ministry. Um, but but I know this too, like amazing youth ministries like the one that you have, uh, aren't just that it's coming from you, but it's things that you've poured into your leaders and ways that you've multiplied that vision into other people. So what has it practically looked like for you to take that burden you have of helping, you know, students who feel unloved or people who feel like they don't have a place or don't have people to believe in them? How have you multiplied yourself into your team or even other students to catch that as well?

Five Measurable Habits For Leaders

Carrie Brooks 16:57

Yeah, that's such a great question. Um, I think, you know, the first thing is like even when I'm recruiting leaders, I'm always asking them, you know, what would make it ideal for you to keep coming back? And the answer to that question is always going to tell me like if they're a good fit for our community. Because if it's just like, you know, I want I want their answer to be somewhere in the vein of, you know, I just want to see students' lives change. I just want to see a student have something I didn't have as a as a teenager. You know, I see the culture and where it's going. And I just want kids to know they're they're loved. Like um, when they have a heart for the culture, the the youth culture in general, then I know I can help them, you know, get a heart that's really centered on um how this is going to be. For us, we say uh at our youth ministry a lot, we're not family how you've always known it, we're family how you want it to be. And we make sure to always kind of tie that in scripturally to a family where where God says, you know, uh from the beginning of time, even before the earth, the foundation of the earth, I I adopted you. Like I wanted you through Christ to be mine. And it gave me great pleasure to do that. And so it's like, man, God was happy. He was excited to to adopt us in. And we're all adopted in this family. Uh, and so um we, you know, we speak that a lot. It's part of all of our every service in our youth ministry, every leaders' meeting. Um, it's built in. But then we also have some really measurable goals for our youth leaders. Uh so I'll walk you through and uh and I can, you know, send over a little graphic for this too. But um we do uh these measurable goals. There's five of them, and uh, and they're based on like, you know, once a week, once a month, once a quarter, once a year. So uh we say to our leaders, hey, once a week, I want you to pray for all of your students by name. That doesn't mean you have to call them up and pray with them. It's just pray for them, pray through your roster. Um, and it's not every student in our youth ministry, it's their students in their small groups. So we uh you've probably heard Aaron say this if you've been around vitals, but we're a youth ministry of small groups, not a youth ministry with small groups. Um, and we can talk about groups in a little bit, but we do a lot within our groups. And so uh all of my leaders, you know, there's one or two, or sorry, two or three of them in a group with a group of students. And that's the those are their kids. That's who they're hanging with, sitting with, you know, spending time with. Um, and once a week, that's that's who they're praying for by name. And then once a week, also the second one is um you need to text, call, or voice memo one of those students. Uh so it's not every single one, right? But pick one kid that this week you're gonna shoot a text. Hey, man, I prayed for you today. Um, hey, anything going on in your life that that you want to talk about? Um, third is once a month, send a card to one student. Kids don't get mail anymore. And so, like, it's a it's a cool thing, right? To like get a card. And it could be like you pick a kid, it says birthday that month. You pick a kid that um, you know, they're going through a hard time, like it's up to you, but pick a different kid than you texted and send a card to one student.

Eran Holt 20:08

Kids don't get mail, they often they also don't know how to send mail. This is right. Oh, right. Is it bad that I had to I have to look up every time? Are you serious, Caleb? You're like, wait, where does the stamp go? I don't know. Legit I have to do that.

Caleb Leake 20:21

I'm like, I just gotta double check. No, I love that though. That's awesome. That's so intentional, too.

Carrie Brooks 20:27

It is, and it's and it's easy to ask. Hey, did you send the letter? Right. Right. Um, and then once a quarter, so number four, once a quarter is get in their world. So that could be you go to one of their events, like show up. We have our kids bring our schedule, their schedules to us. Um, their schedules are put into like a master calendar that all of our our leaders have access to. And then the leaders can just like text the group chat, like, oh, you know, hey, I'm I'm going to see, you know, Haley play softball today, who wants to join me? Um, but we say get in their world. So that could be go to an event. It could also be um, you know, take them out for ice cream, have them dropped off at the local parlor, and you two are gonna hang out for a little while or um, you know, get get a couple of them together, but get into their world in some way, spend time with them outside of our normal youth service.

Eran Holt 21:17

Do you give like um bonus points if they go to a homeschool co-op play? You mean strokes. Strokes, bonus bonuses. Yeah, they get extra strokes.

Carrie Brooks 21:27

We do we do have some kids who are in co-ops, and I'm always like, Do you guys do any events? And they're like, Really? I'm like, okay.

Eran Holt 21:37

Well, if you ever do, let me know. Let me know. We won't put that one in the calendar.

Carrie Brooks 21:43

Uh and then the fifth one is once a year host a small group event for whoever can come. So you and your co-leader pick something to do and just say, Hey, this is when we're doing it. And guess what? Not everyone's gonna show up, and that's okay. Don't, don't, I try to like train my leaders. Please don't stress your whole life trying to get everyone there for something everyone's gonna like. It's just not gonna happen. Pick something that works for you. Your kids will show up because they want to be together. Yeah. And so we have kids like this past weekend, our senior high boys' leaders or like our 12th grade boys, they went hiking. Um, so free. Yeah. Uh, you know, our our seventh grade girls all love art. So they did um, it was called like journals and cookies or creating cookies, something like that. It was like everyone bring a plain journal and your favorite cookie to share. And then the leaders bought stickers and paint and whatever, they made their own prayer journals and ate a ridiculous amount of cookies. So, you know, it doesn't have to be amazing. Um, I think one time I I said, you know, hey, we're gonna do this, like, you know, what's what's the event you're doing? And I was like having my leaders all share their events to give ideas. And um, the the senior high boys leader, who also is my husband, I should say that. Isaac leads our 12th grade boys. He said, We're going to Fogo to Chow. I said, No, you're not. No way. That's a high-end steakhouse. Uh we're not paying for it.

Eran Holt 23:02

Not on my bank account, you're not. Yeah, right.

Belonging Before Believing Explained

Carrie Brooks 23:04

So uh, you know, you have to kind of help them, but yeah, it was a it's it's good. So those are all measurable, practical, yeah, easy ways. Like they're smart goals, right? Because you're not asking them to do a whole lot. Um, we don't ask them to pay for anything unless they want to. Um, we actually, we one of our guys is super creative. He made us um uh like a bunch of greeting cards that have like funny phrases we say at youth. Uh, and so we just got a whole bunch made and then we just gave them out to leaders. I bought like a pack of stamps and was just like, hey, like now you have a tool in your hand you can use to write that card once a month. Right. But it doesn't even have to be that crazy, right? Like you can write it online paper, they're gonna be excited they got something. So yeah.

Eran Holt 23:50

I feel like you just wrote the book on like what it looks like, practically speaking, yeah, to be a great volunteer small group leader.

Caleb Leake 23:57

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the key there is like measurable and attainable. Like simple. All those things are super simple, but they go so far. Like showing up to a game, even if that's just what did you say? It was once a quarter showing up and there were. Once a quarter, yeah. Yeah, like that is so attainable. Because oftentimes with with leaders, the tension you feel is it's like, well, they have real jobs and real lives, and some of them have kids. Yeah. And so it's like, how do you get this to fit and how demanding can you be? Um, but that's a great way to create that culture in a way that's real simple, real attainable.

Eran Holt 24:31

Carrie, I want to ask you. Um, you said this uh a couple minutes ago before you walk through like the five measurable goals for small group leaders. Um but I want to ask you to unpack this statement. You you said earlier we want to create an environment where students can can know that they belong before they figure out what they believe.

Caleb Leake 24:49

Yeah.

Eran Holt 24:50

Right? So can you just unpack that a bit for us? Where did that come from? How did how have you worked that into your culture? I mean, I'm hearing the five things you want leaders to do, and I'm hearing very loudly like this is how we help them know that they belong. Sometimes my experience has been that leaders are intimidated because they feel like all of their relational, you know, efforts with students is going to focus on the belief part, tough questions, theology, what's happening in culture, right? It feels like you got a really health healthy balance between those two. So let me kick it back to you. Just kind of unpack that statement for us a little bit, belonging before believing or while figuring out belief.

Carrie Brooks 25:28

Yeah. I mean, I think you know, when I look at the gospel, I'm like, man, Jesus came to die for everyone. So therefore, everyone can belong when their faith gets them to a place where they um where they become part of his family, right?

Eran Holt 25:44

Yeah.

Carrie Brooks 25:44

But I think that, you know, kids are looking for a a safe place to plug into. And if the like the basis of being in the family of God, right, is that there's a faith element, right? There's a, I'm gonna place my faith in Christ and now I've become adapted into his family.

Eran Holt 26:03

Yeah.

Carrie Brooks 26:04

But I think when it comes to our youth ministries, like we there has to be something that gets them in the door. There has to be something that makes them want to come back. Um, but because a lot of them are are coming in, you know, they're we're telling our kids to invite their friends. We're we're going into schools and like making, you know, oh, come come to our youth group, come check it out. But if you have to believe before you get in the doors of the youth group, then your youth ministry isn't really missional. Um it's it's a place for churched saved people. And I don't actually think that that's, you know, maybe what all youth ministries should be. Uh, at least for us, like we we want to be missional. We want our kids to have a heart and passion to reach their friends, to reach the lost. And so for us, we say, like, hey, you can come here and belong to the youth ministry. Um, and we we have kind of this like discipleship process. I would say I'm you, I'm gonna use that little air quotes because um I wouldn't say like any of our leaders could say this out loud necessarily, like it's kind of brewing in my head. But we kind of say, you know, you belong, then you believe, you behold, and then you behave. Right. So I think kids come in and if they can feel welcomed and they can feel loved and they can feel like I have real friendships here. I have a safe space that I that I can't find somewhere else. And not just because we're friendly, but because we are focused on Jesus. I said to my kids, even this past Wednesday, we were talking about what does it mean to be family, because we just welcomed in all of our new seventh graders. And I said, hey, listen, this is not a youth ministry just for people who already have a relationship with Jesus. I know some of you are here and you're trying to figure out what you believe, and that's okay. Like we're so pumped you're here. And so you can belong here without believing this, but what you need to know is we are always, always going to talk about Jesus. We are always gonna tell you that his word is the only absolute truth. We're gonna tell you um how you, we're always gonna worship, we're gonna tell you how you can connect and have a real relationship with him. So we're not, for those who might be concerned, right? We're not watering down the gospel. We're not um trying to, trying to like push that out of the way. Um, and we're certainly not saying you don't need faith to be part of the family of God. But what we are saying is, you know, while you're here, you're gonna learn truth. But this is a place you can find deep friendships and you can find the path you want to be on. And then um, when you start to believe and you behold Jesus and all of his glory and all of his goodness, you know, then that's gonna change the ways you behave. That's gonna change the outcome of your life.

Eran Holt 28:34

Right. You tried to make that sound like you didn't have it together, but you just it was super together. That was his only thing. I don't know. You'd I don't I don't think you can see Caleb's visceral reaction to that.

Structuring Small Groups For Relationship

Caleb Leake 28:45

He he was Yeah, wait, yeah. You said you said belong to behold to believe to behave. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's that is brilliant, and uh it's so accurate. I think sometimes I feel like when parents drop their kids off, it's like changed w how they behave, and then hopefully they find belonging and you know, all that stuff. So it's like we can weirdly get it twisted. Um but yeah, it's that's beautiful, and I think that's a a a great way to illustrate why community is so important to youth ministry, um, because their whole world at that age group is built around who am I and where do I fit in in this, you know, in this world.

Eran Holt 29:26

Yeah.

Caleb Leake 29:26

And so creating that safe space, uh safe place where they can belong and not feeling intimidated that they have to understand uh or grasp everything that it means to follow Jesus yet, because that's that's the key to discipleship of that age group, which I think makes youth ministry distinct from any other youth ministry because that that part is so vital.

Eran Holt 29:45

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you carry, you have helped us so much just kind of unpack some of the foundational um principles of like here's what healthy community looks like. Um you've even given us some practical stuff on the side of uh if you're a small group leader, here's some things you can do that are very simple, very measurable to create you know belonging and create an opportunity for kids to behold and believe and behave. It's all brilliant. I love it. Um could you just um we got a couple minutes left with you? So there's probably some youth pastors listening, um, whether they're you know full-time vocational like you are or like you, Caleb, or you know, whether they're bi-vocational part-time volunteer, but they're trying to wrap their head around like the structure of small groups. Okay, how do I do it? How do I create small group structure? So um, not that your structure, Carrie, will be applicable to everyone who's listening, but I just think it's helpful. So could you just walk us through that side, the kind of the logistics and structural side of how you created your small groups and how it works with your leaders and all that?

Carrie Brooks 30:48

Yeah, absolutely. So um I think for all those listening, I would just say there's a lot of right ways to set up small groups. Yes, and so just like Aaron said, like this may not work for you. You got to figure out the model that does work and you got to give it at least three months of trying it before you can say it worked or didn't work. Um, for us, we split all of our students into grade and gender based small groups. So I have, you know, seventh grade girls, seventh grade guys, ninth grade girls, ninth grade guys, all Way up. Um, we didn't do that for a long time. We used to just do like middle school girls and middle school guys, high school, you know, until we had enough critical mass to put them in grades.

Eran Holt 31:26

Yeah.

Carrie Brooks 31:27

Um, but for us, one of the things that we do is our small group leaders, um, which, you know, hopefully when they come, they they stay for the whole time, right? But like we ask them when we recruit, we say, like, hey, come be the class of 2031. That's the grade we just brought in. Seventh graders are 2031. Does that not make you feel so old? Um, yeah, it's crazy. So we say, hey, come be the class of 2031's leader. Imagine what it would be like to walk in with these terrified seventh graders and to help them follow Jesus until the day they walk the line and graduate. Come on. Imagine sitting with them. You know, so we we try to like cast some vision for them. Now, not all of them stay, right? Like, I think that's that's youth ministry. You have people who come and go. But right now, uh my senior high leaders have been walking with the same group since seventh grade. Wow. And so they're, you know, they're funny because they're they're saying to me, like, um, I'm not ready for them to be seniors. Like they're getting choked up. I'm like, I know, like, welcome to my world. They all leave me, you know. Um, so for us, that's the way they do it. They move with their, they move with their leader or their leader moves with their group. Um, and what that's done for us, just so, you know, if you're wondering like why do we do that? Well, what that's done for us is it's allowed there to be, uh, instead of trying to train leaders on like age-specific youth ministry, which I think is important, but um, what it's done is it's allowed us to do relational youth ministry. Cause now it's not, I need to know how to relate to every seventh grader. It's I need to know how to relate to this kid for the entire time. And um, so I would say however you're gonna set your groups up, right? Set them up in a way that fosters relationship. Um, keep them, you know, do do things that help them build, build relationship more than just um having your groups whenever you have them. So we have our groups the same night as our youth ministry, um, because that's, you know, our kids are so busy, that's the night I can guarantee they're all gonna be in a group. And so uh for us, we do groups either at the end of every message or sometimes we do them throughout the message. Like they'll split up into their groups within the room. And um, this has gotten trickier the the bigger we've gotten, but they'll we put circles throughout the room, they'll get in their groups, I'll preach like the first point, and then I'll be like, all right, you have seven minutes, I'll put a timer up on the screen, talk about it. Um, that works really well for our middle schoolers. Our high schoolers would prefer just to talk, you know, at the end and really unpack and have deeper conversation, but we figure it out. Um, but we do them often. I think consistency and frequency matters. And so, however you're gonna set them up, whether that's on the same night as your group, a different night, you're gonna, you know, mix some guys and girls, whatever you're gonna do, um, you need to think through what's gonna be highly relational for my students, what's gonna create a safe space where they feel like they can talk about the deep things in their life. Because Gen Z and Gen Alpha, they actually need to talk out their faith. Like if they're not talking about it, um, then they're they're not going to actually like own their discipleship process. They need to talk as a way to be part of it. Um, and then you need to train your leaders. Like, this is not um a second chance for them to preach the message.

Eran Holt 34:52

Yeah.

Leading Discussions That Students Own

Carrie Brooks 34:52

They might have like curriculum they're going through if you're not doing it at the same night as your youth ministry. But for us, I say to my leaders literally every week, if you're talking more than they're talking, you're doing it wrong. It's actually written in there, they get like a little um small group folder every week with the questions all in it and and like on the first page in bold and highlighted and with a box around it. It's like, if you're talking more than they're talking, you're doing it wrong, you know? And um yeah, I walk around like after I'm done preaching, I don't lead a small group. So I I walk around and I eavesdrop. And, you know, if there are leaders who are talking more after after service, we pop aside and just, you know, hey man, I noticed you were you were kind of answering the questions a lot. Like, tell me, you know, were your kids pretty quiet or like what happened? Um, but yeah, you're just you're trying to figure out um what's gonna make it relational. Um, and then, you know, give your leaders good training, I think, for um for what it looks like. You know, maybe you have a an introverted group, maybe you need to count to 20 silently and let them really process the question. Um, maybe you need to reword it. Maybe, you know, maybe you need to give them a prompt. Like, maybe they need to have, if they're a really chatty group, you know, they need to have like a our our eighth grade girls have the talking teddy bear. They're only allowed to talk if they're holding it. Because they need it. Their leaders were like, how do I shut them up? You know, I'm like, great, you know. Um and then I would say like you build family within the family, right? So for our small groups, uh, I didn't say this when I was walking through like the five measurable goals, but when we do get in their world, um, one of the things that I encourage my small group leaders to do is to instead of texting all the rest of our leaders, like, hey, I'm going to Haley's softball game, text your small group. Hey, I'm going to Hayley's softball game. You want to come cheer her on with me? The amount of kids that we have showing up at their rival school's game to cheer on the kid in their small group who's at that school is like weird to me. It's so fun. Um, and you know, we just like show up, show up.

Eran Holt 36:57

That's great.

Carrie Brooks 36:58

Um we also do like we turn our small groups into, I call them like labs. Um, and so like a couple times a year, we say, like, okay, our small group is going to be the place where we learn how to do a Bible study. Um, and so the regularly scheduled, you know, thing kind of ends for the night. And we we give them uh, you know, hey, look up this passage in the Bible, talk about what you think it means. And we have some resources there for leaders to use. Um, they learn how to read the Bible in their group, they learn how to pray in their group, they learn how to share their faith in their group. Why? Because they're not gonna do it outside of people they don't trust if they can't do it with people they do trust. Right. So we try to do that. We also compete in our groups, like like anytime we do games and stuff, I'm like small group fee, small group. And it's like, you know, if the seventh grade girls can take down the 10th grade boys, you know that's a fun night. And so like, but they're building camaraderie, like they're building the connection when they are fighting together for for something, you know, like gift cards or whatever. Like um, you know, but we we find fun things to do uh that allow them to just have some fun together. Um, you know, pray to pray together, play together, stay together, and we try to put it in there.

Caleb Leake 38:15

Dropping little nuggets, Carrie's just have you know this like a clinic right here on a small group right here. This is amazing. Well, and I know for like I mean as a youth pastor, I always get so inspired when I hear different stories of what's working at different places. And obviously, no matter where you're at, if you're a volunteer youth pastor or a bi vocational or uh you're full-time, like you have to adapt to your environment, to your culture. But just having things that can inspire you, Carrie, it's really awesome to hear how you're doing it.

Eran Holt 38:43

You said two things too that I think was so important to highlight. One, you you you got to commit to small groups and try out your model, whatever your structure is gonna be for more than three months. Yeah. I've seen way too many leaders that we coach that just, you know, you try it out. I'm not looking at you, Caleb. You bet in my ear about that. I am looking at you, Caleb. But just, you know, they tried it out for like two weeks and it was like, ah, yeah. And then the second thing, which is equally and possibly even more important, is the quality of your small group leader is gonna determine the quality of the small group. And that's why, Carol, you mentioned you know, training your leaders and investing in them was huge.

Caleb Leake 39:16

Yeah, so I want to ask a question on that because you you have lots of leaders who are sticking around for many years. Is there something you're doing beyond because you talked about casting vision for them, which I think is amazing? Is there something else you think you are doing that's helping them gather that or qualities inside of those leaders you're recruiting that you feel like helps them have longevity?

Carrie Brooks 39:40

That's a good question. You know, I feel like when they see the lives of students change, they want they want it more, right? I think we all want that if we really love Jesus when we see when we see it. So like one of the events that we do every year that's like an all hands on deck event is our retreat. We run like our own winter retreat. And I'm like, I make that mandatory for our leaders. I'm like, it's over a weekend, you know, unless you work in retail, you're probably not taking time off. Like, we're gonna pay for you to come. We're gonna, you know, if you need child care, I'm gonna help you out. Like, we're I'm gonna do whatever I can to get you there.

Eran Holt 40:16

Right.

Labs, Games, And Building Camaraderie

Carrie Brooks 40:17

Um, but and and when I'm recruiting leaders, I'm like, hey, can you just come to this event as like a warm body? I just need like a couple other, you know, I won't make you stay with kids, but like, can you come help like hand out food? Can you help come help like set up these games and never fail? By the end, they're like, Can I do this? Like, I can I be part of this. And I'm like, yeah. Right, right. And so retreat is the gateway. Dude, it is. It is. I think like I I try to, I try really hard. And what I can't make this happen, right? Only Jesus changes lives, but like we try to create environments where kids can connect with Jesus and where leaders are seeing growth happen so that they're like, oh man, like this is something more than just, you know, like glorified babysitting. And I would say, like, how you run your youth service and how engaged you allow your leaders to be actually matters, right? Like my leaders all have responsibility on a on a we have our youth on a Wednesday night, right? So they're they're leading, they're leading their small group, but they're also helping with the worship team. They're training kids. They're um, they have like certain kids they have to connect with, they're overseeing student ministries. And so, like for us, it's like you're not just here to be a warm body in the room. You're here to connect with students and to point them to Jesus. And so, like, there's an expectation that um, you know, your your main job, like I'm not gonna pile you with things to do. I just want to know you connected with a kid tonight. Like have one meaningful conversation tonight. And the more they have it, the more they want it. And I think that ends up being, you know, one of the things that keeps them around. And the the ones that have had to leave, you know, I think um some of them have moved, some of them, it's just, you know, they've they've it's been their time. They've been, or you know, especially when they graduate out of class, they're like, I can't do seventh graders again. Like, I I gotta step down, you know. Um, but even with them, like I've tried to be like, why don't you stay and be a coach of our leaders? Like, why don't I give you a group of leaders to connect with? And I think for me, one of the big changes that I made, you know, in the last two years was I stopped leading a group of um students. So now on a Wednesday night, because I'm still connecting with students, but like my main focus is to care for my leaders. So I'm walking around asking my leaders, like, hey, how's your weekend? How's it going? Like, what's going on? Hey, we've been praying for your husband. What happened with his job? Or like one of our leaders, you know, her husband's been deployed for a year. So I'm like checking in, like, hey, can I drop by with food for you and your kids? Hey, can I treat your kids to a movie night? Like, I'm gonna care well for my leaders and their families. Um, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna go out of my way to do as many things as I can for them because I want them to walk in the door and feel really loved. Like everything I want them to do for their students, I'm gonna do for my leaders so that, you know, they're they're just essentially modeling what's been done for them to make that a culture for our kids.

Eran Holt 43:13

This is amazing. Yeah. If I'm if I'm a youth pastor right now, every one of my leaders are watching this episode. Yes, yeah, this is this is a master class. Yeah, this is a master class. This is so good. Um so let me let me just you know, set set this up here real quick. So all of this incredible content from Carrie, there's a whole bunch more from Carrie on the Vitals for Youth Mystery platform. That's all free. And then if you really love what you're hearing, Carrie helps us uh do a lot of coaching with Lead the Generation, which we are gonna be bringing back our coaching cohorts next year. Uh after Lead the Generation Conference, right? So if you're if you've been rolling with us this whole podcast, then here's you know a nice little moment for you. So April 25th in Reading, Pennsylvania, hosted at GT Church, we're bringing back Lead the Generation Conference, a one-day in-person experience for youth pastors to bring their entire leadership team of adult uh volunteers and student leaders. And the one and only Carrie Brooks will be there. Let's go not just helping us run the conference like she's done for all of our past conferences, but also Carrie, you'll be doing a session there that day. I'm sure at this point you're probably not exactly sure what you're gonna be talking about, but maybe it'll be about small groups. I don't know. It could be. Um, but we're excited about that. Um, it's gonna be an incredible day. And um, by the time you hear this uh podcast, uh everything will be up on the site. Registration, uh early uh group discounts, all that kind of good stuff is gonna be going on. So hopefully we'll see you at the conference. You'll get a chance to uh connect with Carrie. That'll be amazing. So heck yeah.

Caleb Leake 44:45

Carrie, this has been awesome. Thanks for being here. Uh how can we connect with you if they have questions or if they want to reach out to you? What's the best way to do that?

Carrie Brooks 44:53

Yeah, feel free to uh email me. My email is just carry at come to connect.com. Um, and then uh I'm on Instagram, but I'm like really bad at my personal Instagram and like somewhat decent at our youth Instagram. So uh at connection youth, so it's CXNYTH uh is our youth one, and then um mine is at Carrie Ann My Wayward Son, like the lyrics from Kansas.

Caleb Leake 45:19

Oh nice. Oh, were you gonna sing it? Yeah, it's so long. No, it's so long.

Eran Holt 45:25

I've but I like I'm surprised you even know it. What dude? Little gen zero. There you go. There you go. But uh no, I've always I always knew that was your like insight. I was I just never put it together. Like I didn't, I just like was like, oh, I wonder why. I was like, so well, you know what?

Carrie Brooks 45:40

My youth pastor used to call me, he'd be like, oh, carry in my wayward son. And it just like it it just shows you, man, like how much impact. This is I haven't been in youth group in 20 something years. And uh then my youth pastor.

Eran Holt 45:55

Yeah, that's amazing. Got my Instagram handle again.

Carrie Brooks 45:58

So, or find me on Facebook too. We're I'm still old, so you can use that.

Eran Holt 46:02

Amazing. Well, Carrie, thank you so much for being a guest today on uh Vitals for Youth Ministry and uh incredible content. Can't wait for everyone to get their hands on it and use it. Hopefully, it will help uh all of you in your respective churches and local church youth ministries. Uh, use it for yourself, use it for your leaders, uh, use it as a bridge to uh to get uh your leaders into Vitals for Youth Ministry and all the resources that are are there to help you sharpen and grow as a leader. So um thanks so much. If you've been with us this whole time, thank you. Um give us a shout out on a platform of your choice that you're listening on. Give us a like, give us a share, give us a rating, um, give us a review, whatever. Um, just help us spread the word about Vitals for Youth Ministry podcast. And uh, we look forward to seeing you at Lead the Generation conference coming up next year, April 25th, 2026, in Reading, Pennsylvania. Yep, it'll be great. Carrie, thank you. Caleb, thank you. We'll see you all on the next episode of Vitals for Youth Ministry.