Why Intimacy with God Gets Lost in Ministry w/ John Zick

A heart-first kickoff to season two on the power of abiding in Jesus, why confidence flows from intimacy with God, and how to diagnose fruit to find the root. We talk with John Zick about honest stories, simple rhythms, and practical boundaries to guard your heart and lead from overflow.

• Defining abiding as ongoing relationship with God
• Rival mentality versus true fulfillment
• Fruit diagnostics from Galatians to locate your roots
• Anointing versus approval and the danger of autopilot
• Practical boundaries and calendar blocks for health
• Integrating prayer into ordinary moments
• Resetting vision for ministry by guarding your heart
• Resources from the Called Initiative and how to connect

Connect with John Zick!

✉️  Jzick@ag.org 

Check out the CALLED free resources at called.ag.org

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Transcript

Opening Thoughts On Abiding

John Zick 1:15

He will open the doors that need to be open. We've been told above all else, guard your heart. Because everything you do is gonna flow from that. So your responsibility is to abide in me. And then everything else will begin to flow from that. Set your mind on things above and not on things below. And the doors that he opens are so much better than the doors that we could open ourselves, or even that the enemy could open for us to distract us from the things about it.

Eran Holt 1:37

This is like the perfect kickoff to season two, right here.

Caleb Leake 2:01

I'm your host, Caleb. I got my co-host Aaron Holt, founder of Lead the Generation in the Room. And uh, bro, it's season two. It's season two. It's exciting. Kicking off 2026 in a brand new, fresh way.

Eran Holt 2:11

Yep. We got some we've made some we've made some changes to the to the podcast here. We've got some we got some cool stuff going on, some new you know, segments and stuff like that.

Caleb Leake 2:18

One of those things is like your jersey from college. I don't know if they can see it fully, but it's awesome.

Eran Holt 2:23

You got it framed and everything. That was my that was my big Christmas present this year from my wife. And uh so she took my college basketball jersey and put it in the shadow box and everything like that. 92 to 96.

Caleb Leake 2:33

I wasn't even born yet.

Eran Holt 2:34

Hey, we don't need to go there. It's totally fine. It was a long time ago. And it's good memories, and I weighed a lot less than, so it was great. And I had hair. That's just a good one. And I actually and I actually could like run and like you know, like and move around on a court, you know, like stuff stuff that I could never do now without hurting myself.

Caleb Leake 2:50

We need to get you some counseling. I go talk through that. Well, you tried to bring up my jersey as like this is really cool, and then you immediately trolled me by my age. You scored 1500 points, I see, and an MVP. You know who also wasn't born in 1996? It probably wasn't even thought of at that point. Was our we haven't we have a producer now. We have our we do. We have a technical director on set with us, Blaise. What's up, what's up, what's up? Blaise, say say uh say your favorite, favorite Christmas gift you got this year, uh, so everyone can get to know you a little bit.

Blaise White 3:22

My favorite Christmas gift I got this year was a heated jacket. Ooh, heated jacket. There's like a power bank inside to charge the back the actual jacket. Feels like a fire hat. It also works as a phone charger. So I've got a portable charger in the jacket, and it's it's incredible.

Eran Holt 3:37

So I got a question now for all of the viewers out there, because you can't see Blaise, you can just hear his voice. Yeah. But based on what his favorite Christmas present was, what do you what kind of perception would you have of like who this what is what do you think he looks like?

Brand New Segment: Vitals Check

Caleb Leake 3:49

What do we talk about that at lunch? Being like nobody's people just have their own version of what Blaise is like. Everyone's like, he must be a very frail, skinny young man who's always cold and chilled to the bone. That's true. Blaise, you're 20 years old, right? Yes, sir. You only need a phone charger, a phone charger bank if you're 20 years old or younger. I swear. Because I I mean, I I don't need to charge my phone more than once in a day. But my youth students, when we went to National Fine Arts, they're like, I need to find an outlet, bro. Oh my gosh, I'm down to 73%. I need to charge it right now. Like it's it's it's literally 8 a.m.

Blaise White 4:21

How have you writing a charge or you also have a really nice phone, Caleb? I do. That's true. Your battery health is good.

Caleb Leake 4:27

That's true. That's true. Well, a lot of awesome things happening here in season two, and we're excited for this podcast. And uh, we got an awesome conversation coming up today with John Zick.

Eran Holt 4:38

Yeah. John, incredible leader. If you don't know him, you're gonna love this conversation. John Zick is the director of the Called Initiative or the Call Department for the Assemblies of God. And um, what they focus on is helping train up and prepare the next generation of leaders in the church world, both uh full-time vocational ministry leaders as well as volunteer leaders. They have incredible resources. Uh, we'll drop some links in the show notes. You should check it out. Um, if you're familiar or have been a part of the Lead the Gen Fam for quite a while, then you're no stranger to John. He's been on podcasts with us before. He's spoken at our conferences in the past. Um, tremendous leader. It's a great conversation.

Caleb Leake 5:14

Yeah, absolutely. And uh we're starting a brand new segment here uh in season two. Before we get into that conversation that we're calling Vitals Check, uh, me and Aaron have lots of conversations with different youth pastors through the coaching and cohorts that happen, also through this podcast. And I'm a youth pastor now, I've been doing for doing it for about five years. And so we have lots of different conversations with different youth pastors. Uh, in our conversation with with John today, we talked about abiding, but one question that we had uh submitted to us, and I mean if you have a question, your youth pastor, a youth volunteer, youth leader, even a youth student, we'd love to hear from you uh and love to discuss and do a vitals check here uh with your questions. You can submit that through Instagram or even reach out to me and Aaron. Uh, but here's a question that was submitted to us. It says this uh nothing is technically wrong in our ministry, but I'm tired all the time and questioning whether I can keep doing this long term. How do I know if this is a uh normal fatigue or a sign I need to change something? So honestly, probably a thought that every pastor, whether you're in youth ministry or not, can relate to. Sure. Um, Aaron, give me your thoughts uh on this person's question.

Eran Holt 6:25

It might be a sign, it might not be. Um I think since we're talking vitals check, I mean do a vitals check. So do a vitals check on your um in in every major area of life, so physically, you know, how how's your health? How's your physical health? Um, are you eating well? Are you sleeping well? Um, are you finding time to exercise? How's your mental health? Yeah, right? Are you um are you are you filled with peace? Are you filled with joy? Are you filled with, you know, like is there fulfillment um in what you're doing in life and in ministry? Um relationship check, how are your relationships? How are your friendships? Do you have meaningful friendships? You know, if you're married, how's your marriage? Right? Uh if you're not married, um, you know, do you do you have great friendships that kind of fill you up? You know, so there's there's a lot of different, you know, checks there. Obviously, there's a spiritual check, which I think the conversation that that we have here with John coming up is a will be wonderful, vital check, you know, uh in that regard. So I think it starts there. Um I had a mentor say to me once that you should in a healthy way view your life like multiple sides of a swimming pool. So most of the time swimming pools are round, but let's just say that the pool is like uh a square or it's almost like a you know octagon or something like that. And every side of the pool represents a different side of one's health, right? So you have emotional health, you have physical health, you have spiritual health, you have relational health, you have leadership health, you have ministry health, you know, you could you give yourself four, five, six categories, whatever. Um, but if if every side of the pool uh is represented by one of those, you know, areas, then um think of it this way. Um if there's a hole in one side of the pool, it doesn't just affect water on that one side.

Caleb Leake 8:06

Yeah.

Eran Holt 8:06

It's it affects everything. Right. And so sometimes when we when we use terminology like burnout, which is usually always emotional far before long before it's physical, um, it's good to kind of do a a vitals check in that regard and say, okay, what is happening in one or two areas of my life that is creating this feeling, this stress, this tension that I am feeling that I'm I'm terming it, you know, maybe you're terming it burnout. What is happening that is creating that? Um that's how you do like a good assessment where you you know, even the this question, the way it's written, it's like, okay, it seems like everything is going great in ministry. So maybe ministry isn't the problem then. Maybe it's somewhere else that is the the problem, and then I'm not recognizing it clearly what it is that is causing stress or tension or exhaustion in every other area of my life, and until you can clearly identify what that is, whether it's one thing or two things or whatever, until you can clearly identify it, then you can't really address it.

Caleb Leake 9:05

Right. One one of the I think big questions I've wrestled with, and I think Aaron, you're very similar to me in the way you think. So this is you, this is you too. But like I think I constantly would feel um, and I can still feel this way when it's like, when will what I do ever be enough? It feels like my parents like it's not like I'm doing bad, but it never feels like my parents are like amazing, or my lead pastor is like, wow, you're killing it, or like my attendance numbers are never quite where I want them to be, or I set these goals and I never like quite get there. Like that feels like, you know, how do you wrestle through that feeling of like I just feel like I'm never doing enough? Or really, what's the root problem of what's going on there? You know?

Eran Holt 9:44

So I call that I I don't know if other people use this terminology, but it's just what I've called it for myself. I call that a rival mentality. And and so you it can apply to every one of the categories that you just said. When will when the numbers are when will my lead pastor say that when will when so that's so you're you have a mentality that eventually when and if I arrive, then I will experience fulfillment.

Caleb Leake 10:12

Right.

Eran Holt 10:12

Right. So that's a rival mentality, and a rival mentality works against you in such an unhealthy negative way because it never allows you to be fulfilled.

Caleb Leake 10:21

It also doesn't fulfill you once you arrive.

Eran Holt 10:23

Exactly. That's why. Because you you it's like I'm it's not good enough now, and then once I get there, it won't be good enough again. Right. And then I'm in the same cycle perpetually, right? Right. So that's why it's a mentality. So you you have to correct that at its source, right? Right. And so, um, and you kind of already, and whether you realize it or not, I think you already kind of used the word that you're really looking for is the word fulfillment. Right. You're looking for the gift of fulfillment, right? That it is really only given to us by God, right, and through our relationship with God, where I'm able to in fully embrace the current season I am in, you know, apply that past, present, and future. Right. I want to be able to fully embrace the season that I'm in so that I am fully fulfilled.

Caleb Leake 11:08

Right.

Eran Holt 11:09

And my fulfillment is not based on this number or this accomplishment or this affirmation from my pastor or whoever voy whoever's voice has weighed in my life and I'm I'm hungry for their approval in some way. Like my fulfillment is based on uh a whole set of foundational principles that are only found in my relationship with you know God. So, you know, am I am I close to God? Am I in relationship with him? You know, am I go back to the swimming pool? Am I functioning in healthy ways in all these multiple areas of my life? So you're not really looking for a rival, you're really looking for fulfillment.

Caleb Leake 11:47

Yeah.

Eran Holt 11:48

One of the ways that you can assess this, um, I think it was Craig Groschell. I think I heard him say this. I'll give him credit for it, if you know, even if it wasn't him. But I think I heard him say once, a hungry need is a dangerous need. And so one of the things ways I've used that phrase to help me is like when I'm when I'm experiencing unfulfillment or when I am experiencing, you know, what I maybe would term burnout, I'll I I'll self-assess and I'll ask myself, what what is my what am I hungry for right now? Right. Like what what is it inside me that's driving me or that's pushing me or that I'm longing for right now? And if I fully give myself to it, where is it gonna lead me?

Caleb Leake 12:28

Right.

Eran Holt 12:29

Hungry need is a dangerous need. Okay, I I wanna go back to Jesus is my source and Jesus is the only one that can meet these needs. And yes, I would love it if I hit a certain number because it would it would feel good momentarily at least, and it might make my direct report happy. Right. You know, yes, I would love it if my lead pastor would just pull me aside one day and say, this, this, this, this, and this, you know, you know, whatever that is. Um and if that happens, great.

Caleb Leake 12:56

Right.

Eran Holt 12:56

But I don't need it. Right. That's that's the point I'm trying to make.

Caleb Leake 12:59

Yeah.

Eran Holt 13:00

Like I'm okay if it happens and it it would feel great at least temporarily if it does, but I can't have that as a hungry need in my life. Yeah, it's gonna cloud my lenses the way I look at everything.

Episode Sponsor: Allison Park Leadership Academy

Caleb Leake 13:10

Yeah, that's wisdom. Yeah, I would say, man, like with what Aaron is saying here, like if you don't have a coaching mentor relationship, like how Aaron is even coaching us right now, that's a necessity. Because when you're living your own head and own world and it's just you, you come to conclusions that aren't right, you start believing in feelings that are gonna be changed the next day. And often that's what you need. Sometimes when you're discouraged in ministry, like you preach a bad message and you're like, I'm down, maybe I should quit. Like, go take a nap and eat some good food, and you'll probably feel better the next day.

Eran Holt 13:39

And back to that question, I mean, there is the possibility that you part of the reason you're feeling that is because you you're finding yourself in a system or a structure with ministry demands that are placed on you that over time you've discovered is not really a good fit for you.

Caleb Leake 13:53

Right.

Episode Sponsor: World Serve International

Eran Holt 13:53

And and so the way that you're naturally wired or the way that God has divinely wired you is just not a good fit in this ministry. It it doesn't give you the permission to demonize the the ministry that you're a part of, but it might be God's way, um, and you gotta pray through this, right? But it might be God's way of helping you learn more about yourself so that you realize, okay, what they're doing, that's great. Right. God's using that. That's a healthy perspective for me to have. Um, I'm growing in such a way that I'm realizing I'm not really a good fit for that moving forward. And the longer I stay here, the more tension is gonna be created in me and in them as well. Because if if I'm not a good fit for them, then they're not a good fit for me. We both, you know, right? So there is the possibility that that's happening. But yeah, I wouldn't rush to those conclusions. I would pray through that. I'd get a coach to coach me through that, all of those things.

Caleb Leake 14:41

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think the conversation we had uh with John Sick is also gonna be really Oh, it's gonna fit right in with this.

Eran Holt 14:47

Yeah.

Welcome John Zick

Caleb Leake 14:48

So uh yeah, stay tuned for that. We'll be right back after the break. Today's episode is sponsored by Allison Park Leadership Academy. This is a ministry school based out of Pittsburgh PA, and it's one focused year of practical hands-on ministry training as well as solid biblical teaching. APLA is passionate about training you, equipping you, and sending you out into what God has called you to. And really that's the main mission is to help you step into what God has made you for. And so, for more information or even to apply today, you can head to Allison Park LeadershipAcademy.com.

Eran Holt 15:23

Hey, today's episode is brought to you by WorldServe International. If you're not familiar with WorldServe, absolutely incredible organization that has helped bring clean drinking water to over seven million people in sub-Saharan Africa. Even beyond clean drinking water, WorldServe empowers women by providing biodegradable sanitary pads to adolescent girls, helping them stay in school, helping them continue to pursue their education. WorldServe also supports food security by helping communities learn how to grow their own food through drip irrigation, resulting in hundreds of thousands of pounds of food distributed each year. One simple way to get involved is through the well. We're gonna put a link in the show notes, go check it out. Supporters uh sign up to support WorldServe through $20 a month. That's really, really simple, but you're making a huge difference providing clean drinking water uh all over Africa. So, WorldServe, thank you. Thanks for being a sponsor today for the podcast. Well, John, so glad to have you on the podcast today. Uh, you're not a stranger to lead the generation, so it's always great to have you. Uh, thanks for coming back, being a part of today's episode.

John Zick 16:39

Absolutely glad to be on and excited for the podcast. Yeah, great.

Caleb Leake 16:43

And uh yeah, we're excited to have you because uh, you know, having any youth pastor, youth leader, next-gen leader, youth evangelist, you've been around youth ministry for a long time, uh, that means you have a story because every single person in youth ministry tends to have it. I say it it's like a plague of stupid that follows us that we just can't escape. Uh, whether it's you or an intern or a student doing something stupid. So, yeah, man, the floor is yours. We'd love to hear uh one of your youth ministry stories.

John Zick 17:12

So, you know, obviously, like you said, there's lots of them, right? Being in being in ministry. And, you know, probably half of them are inappropriate, like you wouldn't be able to share. Yeah. It's good to have that discernment to say that, you know, so especially, especially if it's being recorded. You know, if this was like a room of youth pastors and no recording is happening.

Caleb Leake 17:32

Yeah.

John Zick 17:32

Well, I mean, you shared, I'll say this. You shared with us one that I'm like, yeah, definitely don't share with that.

Eran Holt 17:36

Because uh I think we all have those. And you're showing wisdom already, John, because we did have one person who shall remain nameless, share a story that we Caleb and I kind of looked at each other the whole time. We're like, I I can't believe this is the story they chose like of all their stories.

Caleb Leake 17:48

Like this is gonna be online in perpetuity for everyone to see. So yeah, yeah, good good wisdom right there.

John Zick 17:54

So here is my best knowing that it's being recorded story. Good knows that. Good. So it was was, you know, uh youth pasturing, and uh we you know had this rule no cell phones during service. And so worship had started, and um, I'm walking in from the back, and there was this student off to the side that I saw a cord plugged in, you know, to the to the wall in the the back of the sanctuary area. I'm like, all right, this guy's you know on a cell phone, charging a cell phone, whatever. So walk over there, I'm like, hey man, you know, no cell phones uh during service. You can keep it, but you know, just don't have them out. And, you know, we definitely don't want you charging it. And he's like, oh, dude, it's not my cell phone. And I'm like, oh, okay, well, what are you charging? And he like stepped back and he was charging his ankle, is what it looked like. And I'm like, hey man, what what's going on? He was like, hey, I'm on house arrest, and this is my I don't even I don't even know what it's called. What's what's the saying on the ankle?

Caleb Leake 18:54

It's like ankle. I I don't even know either. That's where I'm gonna not know. It was like a parole thing, right?

John’s Journey: Praying Without Ceasing

John Zick 18:59

It's not like a tether, right? I mean it's like a GPS tracker, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he he said the only two places allowed are the church and my house. Uh you know, for and then school, you know, for the however long he had it on. And he was charging, he's like, it's about to die, and I need to charge it up, you know, otherwise or else my pro officer's showing up right here. I kid you not. I took a picture of it. So, you know, he's in the back charging his ankle, and then he at one point during worship had his hands up and was worshiping, you know, and just was it was a super cool moment. And I like stepped back and took a picture. I'm like, that's youth ministry at its finest. You know, you have someone charging their house arrest, ankle bracelet, and worshiping Jesus all on the same night.

Eran Holt 19:50

Yeah, bro. And the kid was thoughtful enough to tell his pro officer, can you mark the church as a place that I think they just go back?

Caleb Leake 19:56

That is really sweet. I feel like every youth pastor has had that moment though where they go to a kid like thinking they're gonna get them, like it's like I got them, they're caught. It's like, oh, I'm sorry. Sorry, I totally didn't realize. Oh, that's like so that's so sweet. What a sweet youth pastor story that was. That's yeah, you know, that's not even bad. It's a good recorded youth pastor. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. That's probably one of our best.

Eran Holt 20:18

Yeah. Um, John, we love having guests like you um on the podcast. You've you were you've been with us on other podcasts, the student leadership podcast, um, which is still out there for um those that are checking that out. And then um you've been a part of a lot of our conferences over the years. Uh so no stranger to the Lead the Gen Fam uh at all. So um today on Vitals for Youth Mystery Podcast, we want to kind of dial in with you on one vital, the vital of spiritual transformation. Um, I think this is I mean, all the vitals are important, right? So we don't ever want to like raise one above another, but I think there's some, you know, some for me at least, there's ones that I tend to be like, these are my passion ones. So like biblical truth and spiritual transformation are the ones that I'm like, let's go. Yeah. And um, so spiritual transformation, discipleship, how we encourage kids, you know, in their walk with the Lord, becoming more like Christ, all of that. And so let's just do a deep dive on that topic, if that's all right with you. And I'm just the floor is yours. Um you know, when you're thinking students, student. Ministry, um, you know what you're doing now at the National Office with the Assemblies of God in the call department, you're really helping students step into leadership, step into calling. Uh, you're still traveling actively, um, wearing the hat of like a youth evangelist now. And so you're you might not be youth pastoring currently, but you've still got students all over that you are helping become more like Christ. Um, so talk to us about spiritual transformation. Encourage the audience today on that topic.

Gifting, Anointing, And Approval

Diagnosing Fruit To Find The Root

John Zick 21:42

Yeah, no, I love this topic as well. And and really, you know, when you think of spiritual transformation, you're kind of talking foundation, right? These are kind of foundational blocks that, man, regardless of where you're at in the country, you know, I was in California for a season, I've been in Michigan for a season. Now I'm in Springfield, Missouri. Um, you know, youth pasturing in California was a lot different than youth pasturing in Michigan. You know, it's a different culture, it's a different dynamic, um, you know, all those different things. But there's certain things that it doesn't really matter where you're at, you know, these apply, right? There's some things that's like, hey, this only works in this culture, right? Some things that that we did in California would not have worked in Michigan. Um, you know, and that's just based on the culture and based on the demographic. But then there's certain things that kind of transcend culture or location. It's like, no, these are just building blocks, right? These are foundational pieces. And that's what I love about, you know, the one that we're going to be talking about today, which is just abiding, you know, abiding in Christ, abiding in your relationship. It doesn't matter where you are in the in the country or in the world, this is a foundation piece, right? This is this is needed uh for for any leader, for for any student. And and why I really wanted to talk about this topic is as I've been traveling, you know, the the questions that I've been getting from students, you know, and and Aaron, you know this, but would you get, you know, maybe a question one time or two times, it's like, okay, cool. But once you start to get like five, six in different spots, you see a pattern, you know, in different, you start to see a pattern, right? And you start to wonder, like, okay, is this a generational thing? Um, and and I um one of the the questions that I get all the time from students, I I get it from leaders occasionally, but a lot of times from students is how do you speak so confidently? How are you so bold? Which, you know, it's just kind of like the first couple of times I got I'm like, I don't know, you know, like I didn't I didn't know there was, you know, but it was just like something that they saw, like they they noticed a boldness and a and a confidence in communicating, and that that was attractive to them, right? Yeah. And so what I've you know begun to say with these students is man, you you can't, there's no shortcut to abiding with Jesus, right? And you won't have true confidence, whether you're a student or a leader, you cannot have true confidence outside of abiding. Yeah, right. It just it doesn't happen. Uh you you can try to have it in other things, and and we all know this. You can have it in gifts, you can have it in abilities and successes and all, but true confidence only comes from abiding. There's no there's no shortcut, right? There's no other way around it. Yeah, um, there's no back door to this, you know. If you are not abiding in Christ, if you are not spending time, obviously come out of you know, John 15, where where it talks about how, you know, I am I am the branches and the fruit that's being produced and abiding in me. And and you start to to dive in, you know, to um this chapter a little bit, and what does it mean to really abide? What does that really look like? It's it's this remaining, you know, it's this this dwelling, it's this ongoing relationship and and conversation. And you know, it's it's beautiful when you think about it, but oftentimes it's the thing that we don't have time for, right? Is how um, you know, and and especially in ministry, and it's like, man, how do you do this? How do you communicate, you know, with with boldness and confidence? How X, Y, and Z, you you know, whatever question you ask, it's like apart from abiding, you really can't do it. And that's you know what Jesus says here in scripture is apart from me, yeah, you can do nothing. Um now it's tricky because of the things that we've created in our culture, we can look like we are having uh fruit or success, but it's not necessarily heavenly success. Yeah, right. And so that's that's where it becomes really hard. Um you know, when when you look at the things that we would gauge success on today, numbers or accolades, you know, all those, all those different things. The scary thing is is Satan can open those doors for you here on earth. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, when we look at the the temptations with Jesus and Satan, you know, when when Jesus is brought in in into the wilderness and is fasting and is then is tempted. Uh, one I can give you all these kingdoms, right? I'll Jesus never said no, you can't.

Eran Holt 26:38

That's true. That's true.

Boundaries, Calendars, And Daily Unwind

Not So With You: Kingdom Standards

John Zick 26:40

Right. He never said no, you can't give me because he can. He he's the prince of the world, right? Like he can give you the kingdoms of the world. He can give you wealth, he can give you popularity, he can give you fame, he can give you all of these things. So there's a there's a just a danger when we gauge our success as as pastors, as leaders, as people who are set on heaven and not on earth, when we begin to gauge our success on things that the enemy can also give us. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, Jesus never said, No, you that's not yours to give. Right? He he combated it with scripture. Um, you know, man should not live on bread alone. You know, you go through the different temptations. He would combat it with scripture, but he never said, That's not yours to give. And so, you know, it there's this danger of we can and Satan's good at what he does, you know, let's just let's just be honest, he's been doing it for a long time. And so he can begin to disguise the the fruit, you know, of of culture and make it seem like, man, this is this is good, this is great stuff, but at the end of the day, at the end of the day, like you cannot there's just no shortcut around true abiding with Jesus. And and that's the fruit that lasts, right? That's the fruit that that we need to be going after. That's the fruit that that we need to be chasing. And um, man, it's not again, this is, you know, some of this stuff is is fresh as it's just, you know, the Holy Spirit's been hitting me with some of this stuff, but it's like, man, I think, you know, a lot of times we can, and I've heard it and I I've probably done it myself of like, man, you know, I get up at 4 a.m. and the first hour of my day is is spent, and and we do it as if like, you know, it's a badge of honor. Yeah, you know, let's just like let's say I'm at a marriage conference, right? And and I'm on on the stage and I'm on a panel, and they say, What's the success to marriage? Man, the success to marriage is I give my wife one hour a day. And and she gets to pick when it is, but she only gets an hour, right? And and that's people be like, what are you talking about? You know, that's an awful marriage. No, no relationship in life can be built on one hour a day. Right. Yeah. No genuine relationship, you know, of intimacy and true abiding. And so, uh, but a lot of times we and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with setting time, you know, aside and saying, hey, this is time where I'm reading or whatever. Right. But true abiding is just this ongoing relationship. Yeah. You know, it it's it's sitting, it's dwelling, it's remaining, it's taking your everyday, ordinary life, placing it before God. It's it's the the waking up and the lying down, it's the going to work, it's just every part of our life we are aware of him, right? We're aware of his presence. We're we're talking to him throughout the day, we're we're praying, even if it's just in our heads, we're we're singing, you know, it's just this beautiful relationship. And when you have that type of intimacy with him, when you're abiding like that, it's crazy how the things of this world just seem to kind of fade. Right. Right? They just don't matter. Like it's just like I'm known by the creator of the universe, and there really isn't anything else better than that. Yeah. You know, like you can't, you can't buy that, you can't, you can't achieve that, you can't, you can't try to earn that and accomplish. I mean, there's just there's just nothing better. And so it just begins to kind of put things into perspective. You know, I I think one of the main things that that abiding does for us is it just begins to align our minds and our soul and our will with the things of heaven, right? It just begins to align us with the things of God. And and that's what we see in scripture when Jesus does it, you know, his biggest moment before he's going to the cross, he's he's aligning himself with the will of heaven. Yeah, he's abiding, he's spending time, he's talking, he's making sure that he is, you know, set on the things of heaven. And so it's just such a it's such a cruel I know like we've heard it, you know, we've heard abide. Yeah, we know this verse, you know, it's a passage, it's not like a hidden passion passage. It's it's known, we've preached it, we've studied it, but are we truly living it? You know, are we really making him part of our everyday where we are just conscious of him, that we're we're aware of his presence before we're going into meetings and during things, it's just like, man, I just want this ongoing relationship with with you and the fruit that is produced from that. You know, we we know in a Galatians, you know, Galatians 5 love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, you know, those are the things that begin to just pour out of us when we are truly spending time with him.

Abide To Bear Much Fruit

Caleb Leake 32:03

Yeah, dude. So walk me through then like your personal journey with this. Because it like when a student came to you and was like, Man, why do you feel this way? How are you this confident? Um, like walk me not only through like how the Holy Spirit got you here, but maybe even your personal journey with abiding. Because I think some people would say to that student, I've been doing this a long time, or like, you know, you gotta, you gotta get up there and take any experience you can get, right? But like you chose to identify something that's totally outside of any sort of confidence or speaking. It's it's what happens in your relationship with God being in the forefront. Talk to me about like your journey with that principle. Um, because obviously you've been you've been speaking a long time, but it goes deeper than just your experience that you're saying is what gives you that confidence in that way. Yeah.

John Zick 32:51

Yeah. And and you know, I don't want it to be like a Jesus juke. Right. You know, it's like one of those answers where, you know, it's like, no, I just want practical, a practical, well, it's like the practical answer is abiding. Right. You know, like that's right, that's just what it is. And you know, I think where it started for me actually was back in high school. Um, I I remember, you know, and I wrote about this in you know the the called book. Um, but I I remember, you know, that that verse of of pray without ceasing. And I was maybe a sophomore or a junior in high school. Uh, what is that, first Thessalonians um five, maybe, but you know, just pray without ceasing. And I remember seeing that and like, man, how what does that mean? Like, how is that possible? What does that look like? And so uh, you know, brought it to my youth pastor. I'm like, hey, what is this? What does this mean? How is this?

Caleb Leake 33:46

Every student needs to hear that. Come bring questions to the youth pastor.

Resources And How To Connect

Closing And Review Request

John Zick 33:50

Brought it, yeah, brought it to my youth pastor and just said, Hey, what does this mean? You know, I'm in sports and all these different things. How do you pray without CZ? And for a while you think, like, man, I need to be spending 10 hours on my knees, you know, and man, if I'm not, I'm not a good Christian if I'm not doing that. And he just kind of explained to me, hey, it's just this ongoing relationship. I was like, okay, yeah, like I I can understand that. And, you know, up until that point, I found my the really the only times I was praying was like before meals or, you know, right when I woke up or when I went to bed. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna try to pray, you know, just throughout the day, just in my head, whatever. Set out to do it the first couple of weeks, you know, just didn't happen. Didn't matter how much will I had, you know, just didn't happen. Um, and so then one night I was like, all right, holy spirit, how can I do this? Like, I want this to be part of my life, I want this discipline where we're just walking together. Um, and just kind of had the thought of setting a reminder in my phone, you know, it was a razor flip phone, uh, the dark blue one. Come on. And uh the dark one in the bottom. Yeah, yeah, the dark blue one. Um, you know, the what you can play snakes on it, and that's about it.

Eran Holt 35:03

T9 texting. Come on, baby.

John Zick 35:05

Yeah, yeah. I remember the commercials of it, you know, so thin that you can shave with it, you know, when it was open. But um so, you know, just put a reminder in there. So I put a reminder in my phone for every hour that would just go off, it would buzz and just say pray. Um, and I literally, you know, looking back, I was training myself, right, just to do this. And the reminder would go off, didn't matter what I was doing. You know, it's not that I would stop and close my eyes, but I just start talking to Jesus in my head, you know. Um, and after a few months, I I realized that I would be talking to Jesus in my head, and then the reminder would go off. And so I'm like, oh, I beat the reminder, you know, like I've I've I've trained myself, you know, I've built this discipline. Yeah. Um, and that's I I would tie it back to that moment when I was in high school, and that's just kind of been part of my life. And people have always said to me in different settings, like, man, you just seem like you don't care about people's opinions, you know. And I'm like, Yeah, I really don't, you know, and where does that come from? You know, like it took me a while to connect all the dots, right? Of like, yeah, you're right. I I I really don't. And why don't I? And um, as I just began to pray about it, it's like because I'm spending time with the only opinion that actually matters. Yeah, you know, and and it's not, it's not that I'm perfect in this by any means, but I have just learned, I've I've seen firsthand the benefits of abiding and what it does. Um the I mean, man, it it's again, you just can't, you can't buy it. It's not worth any amount. Like I I couldn't trade my abiding time for millions of dollars, right? I you just you can't, it's just absolutely incredible what comes from it and the confidence that you get to walk in when you have the relationship with the one that that created you, like a true relationship, you know, not not this, hey, I did the the you version, you know. I I remember, you know, uh maybe a year ago now I got done speaking at this conference and I got off stage and started to, I was back in the you know, back area behind stage and was just second guessing myself. Like, oh, I could have said that this way, or oh, I forgot to say this. And then that's just not like me. And so I paused in that moment. I said, Holy Spirit, why am I doing this? Where is this coming from? Um, and I felt like the Holy Spirit said, You haven't spent adequate time with me, you know, in the past couple of weeks. Um, and I'm like, Well, I've I've done the U version, you know, I've been traveling, it's been, it's been a lot. Um, like I stuck, I still have the streak on the U version app, you know, all those different things. The streak. Uh yeah. He's like, no, you haven't spent adequate time with me. And because you haven't, your confidence is now shifting from being in me to being in your gift. Um, and because it's in your gift, you're feeling insecure, you're second guessing yourself. And and that was a you know, a week and a half, two-week time. So it doesn't take long, right? Like that that wasn't years, that wasn't months, that was like a two-week window where I really hadn't had that time with him. Um, and I had started to to drift, you know, in in that short window. So it's real.

Eran Holt 38:22

One of the dangers that we all face in ministry, regardless of what your your role is, you know, you can just click it into auto mode.

Caleb Leake 38:30

Right.

Eran Holt 38:30

And rely on and rely on gifting.

Caleb Leake 38:33

Right.

Eran Holt 38:33

And like, you know, you you travel and speak uh quite a bit, John. I do as well. And so that means that there are times where we're using the same message multiple times, and it gets really tempting then. Yeah. Well, and talk about like because it's like, well, I already know I know the message. I have the I have this message memorized, I know this mature really well, and so then it's you know, it's like, oh, okay, you know, whatever, just get them do my thing. And right.

Caleb Leake 38:54

And fruit isn't always an indicator, like you were saying. Like you can have fruit because you have a gift that God gave you, even though maybe it hasn't been because it's an out of an uh you know, overabundance of you abiding in in the presence of the person.

Eran Holt 39:06

And the mistake that we can make is like you can confuse anointing for God's approval.

Caleb Leake 39:11

Right.

Eran Holt 39:12

Exactly, yeah. So because God, because the anointing will still show up. Right. And that, but that's not a sign necessarily of God's approval as much as it's a sign that God cares for the people that you're ministering to.

John Zick 39:22

Right. And so Yeah, I mean his presence is there, right? Force three gather in my name, it's it's there. Right. It doesn't say when it's the right speaker or the right worship team that it's gonna be there. You know, it's just yeah.

Eran Holt 39:35

So if you confuse moments when the anointing is on you to minister for God's great approval, or we could just put the word abiding in there, it starts with an A as well, so the alliteration works. Nice.

Caleb Leake 39:44

There you go.

Eran Holt 39:47

So if you confuse anointing for abiding, you get yourself in trouble.

Caleb Leake 39:50

Right.

Eran Holt 39:51

John, you said earlier, um, I found it really intriguing. I'd love for you to unpack it a little bit more. You said that um it's really easy to get confused between I'm so I'm gonna this is not exactly how you said it, but it's what I heard in my head. It's it's easy to confuse God's approval from man's approval. That's what I heard in my head. And so you but you were talking about how the the enemy can actually provide some of the false fruit that we lean on. So could you circle back to that for me? Because I'd like to just jump into that for a minute.

John Zick 40:19

Yeah, yeah, and and I don't even know, you know, obviously there's there's false fruit, but what what really begins to show where your wherever we abide determines what we bear, right? Does that make sense? So so we're abiding no matter what. We're either abiding in the things of of heaven and with Jesus, or we're abiding in the things of culture, right? There's no middle ground, it's it's like one or the other. And so the the fruit, if you're if you're thinking like, oh, I will I have ministry success, or man, these doors have been opening and accomplishments, if that's how you're gauging your success or your approval of like, yeah, God is you know pleased with what you're doing, it's just a dangerous spot to be. Um, and and when your roots are in those things, you know, uh Galatians tells us they're there's the fruit of the spirit, right? But then we see it. Also in Galatians, where there is the fruit of the culture, right? Sexual immorality, impurity, idolatry, hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, uh, selfish ambition, division, envy, right? These are these are the fruits that culture would produce. And I think a good way to discover, okay, where am I finding my confidence or where am I abiding? Am I abiding in culture or am I abiding in Jesus? Well, if you're if you're finding that there's just constant jealousy in your life, that's a fruit of culture, right? That's that's a fruit of that. That why is there jealousy? Um, because someone who's abiding in Christ, there's not jealousy. You're you're celebrating other people. You're not jealous of other people, right? You see, you see their victories as a team victory. Um when you're jealous, you see their victories as a threat, right? So there's there's just a difference. There's division, there's selfish ambition. Uh man, I find I'm I'm just kind of chasing things that that make me feel good. Um, so it's really being self-aware enough to say, okay, what is what is the fruit currently in my life? And something my mom would always say to me growing up is what's the root of the issue? You know, what's the root of the issue? What's the root of it? You know, kind of where it got annoying. You know how we have moms who say those things over and over again.

Eran Holt 42:36

Thank God for moms, especially spiritual moms. Come on.

John Zick 42:40

But she always wanted to get to the root of the issue. And, you know, she was teaching, uh, teaching me that obviously there's there's fruit and you can pluck fruit, but if you don't get to the root, you're gonna continue. And so I think the fruit is a good indicator of where your roots are. Um and if our roots are in, you know, what some of the things that culture's chasing, right? Fame, let's just use fame. If our if our root is in fame, the fruit that's gonna be produced is envy, division, selfish ambition, jealousy, hatred, you know, adultery, and pure, you know, all those things. But if our fruit is in him, then we're gonna have love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, you know. So I think the fruit is a good indicator of of where you're abiding. Because again, what wherever you abide determines what you bear, right? And and you're you're abiding no matter what. You're either abiding in culture or you're abiding in the things of God. Um, and if you're not intentionally abiding in the things of God, I found from my life uh that when I drift, I don't drift into the things of God. I drift into the things of culture.

Eran Holt 43:51

Yeah.

John Zick 43:51

And so if I'm not intentionally building the things of God in my life, then I am slowly drifting into the things of culture. Uh and the fruit, that's why that moment, you know, when I got off stage and all of a sudden all this, you know, questions and man, this person could have done it, but jealousy and all those things, I'm like, okay, that's a fruit. Where is that coming from? Yeah. Well, my roots were planted somewhere they shouldn't have been, you know, and not in Jesus. And so um, I think fruit, you know, if if we can be self-aware enough, you know, that's that's the next challenging part is being self-aware. God search me, know me, know my hearts, know my thoughts, know my my selfish ambition. Uh anything that is not of you, remove it from me. You know, having that type of prayer and mindset.

Caleb Leake 44:38

I kept thinking about that prayer as you were saying that, like, God search my heart, which is sometimes one of the scariest prayers to pray. And sometimes I want to, I don't know if I want to pray this. I don't know if I want to have this come to my mind, but but it's so good. And I I love that you laid out almost the you know, these products of our life, almost being a diagnostic to show us where where is our heart and where have we been drifting? Um, and I feel like we live in a world that is just always competing with our time, competing with our affection. Um so John, I'd love to know like what are some boundaries you set up for yourself, or what do you even would what would you say to somebody who's like, I'm I'm struggling to abide? Like, what are some necessary sacrifices or boundaries you have to put in place in a world that is constantly wanting your attention and affection and loyalty? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

John Zick 45:32

I mean, you know, very, very practically, you've got to own your calendar. Um, you know, uh you've you got to block things out. Like if you, you know, go to my calendar, that principle I learned when I was a sophomore in high school, I still apply today. Um, you know, like you, I have blocked off in my calendar, you know, physical health, spiritual health, family health, mental health to where meetings cannot be scheduled over those things. Um, I have it blocked off at the end of the year.

Caleb Leake 46:06

I also really thought he was gonna show a dark blue razor. I was like, this is gonna be awesome. It's the same phone.

John Zick 46:13

It's the same phone. Um, that's awesome. End of the day from 3 30 to 4 30. I have just mental health daily unwind, blocked off in my calendar to where meetings cannot be scheduled. Because I've just found if I don't block it, there's gonna be meetings that come up, right? And and take that. So I every day I block it off. Um now every day at 3 30 am I focused on mental health, not necessarily, but there's not going to be a meeting there, right? Right. Um I'm able to just kind of do those different things. So that helps just owning, you know, truly owning your calendar and setting boundaries, um, you know, and and just really being practical about that. Again, it it's not so much about I don't have time. God's not saying, give me five hours a day where you're in a prayer closet. Now there's gonna be seasons where it's just like, man, I just feel like I need to be praying, and and and and there's that's beautiful and that's great. But you know, Romans uh 12, the message, it says, take your everyday, ordinary life, you're sleeping, you're eating, you're going to work and walking around life and place it before God as an offering. I mean, that's that's what we're talking about here is taking our everyday, ordinary life. And again, what we talked about at the beginning, it's just being aware that he's he wants to be involved, he wants to walk with you, he wants to be in relationship with you. This isn't a one hour a day and then I'm done, and I get to check it off my box. This is ongoing throughout the day. The Holy Spirit's gonna be speaking to you, and and when you're you know, when you're abiding, you'll you'll find that you're you don't get away with things for very long. Yeah. Right? Like, there's so many times where you know I'll just be in conversation with my wife. I'm like, how are they allowed to do that? The Holy Spirit would not allow me to do that. You know, like how are they getting away with it? Like, what what is going on here? And it's just like, man, when you are truly abiding, uh, he's he's checking you, right? He's shaping you, he's molding you. You you can't get away with selfish ambition when you're truly abiding in Christ. Yeah, right. Those things just just come up and and he removes them, he cuts them off.

Caleb Leake 48:25

Um well, and on the on the flip side, too, like even the positive stuff, when you're abiding, the beautiful things of the world that God has given to us as gifts hit different. Like exactly waking up and having coffee, there are times I'm like, God is so good to me. We're having a good meal in that way. It's like it's like yeah, you start to give thanks for the things that God has even put. 100% the mundane things.

Eran Holt 48:46

John, when you when you talk about like putting it. Like, uh, I mean you said it in like in a funny way, but when you when you talk about like how how are they able to get away with that? So I I remember, I won't go to the detail, but I I was sitting at lunch.

John Zick 48:58

Tell us the person backstory.

Eran Holt 49:00

I was sitting, oh no, you would know every one of these people. I was sitting at a at lunch and with uh you know some other people that travel and speak and everything like that, and the conversation turned negative, and I joined in and I felt so convicted afterwards. Like, why did I just keep my mouth shut? And one of the people at the table was someone who's been like a lifelong mentor of mine, and so I had a follow-up phone call with them later. One to apologize because I felt like I was wrong, I shouldn't have done this, but but I also needed to process like like why am I feeling the way that I'm feeling? And and this was my mentor's statement to me. Others may, I may not. Yeah, and that's when you said what you just said, it just reminds me that you know, if there's a standard of abiding or a standard of of integrity that the Holy Spirit is asking of you, that's what he's asking of you. And you and I have no idea what he's asking of other people, so just stay out of that completely. But I need like I needed that word from my mentor in that day.

Caleb Leake 49:59

Yeah, yeah.

John Zick 50:00

I mean, you know, it's what Jesus says to the disciples when uh Peter and or James and John come to Jesus and say, Can we sit at your right and left? And the other, you know, tend to hear about it, they're indignant, is what the Bible says. They begin to what how could you do that? And Jesus says, you know, hey, the rulers of this age lord authority over people. And he uses this line, and it, Aaron, it reminded me of what you just said. He said, But not so with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not so with you. That's not how we act as people who are part of the kingdom of heaven, right? Just because they're doing that, not so with you. We don't lord authority over people, we serve people, right? Was his point there. Um and and so often, not so with you. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what they're doing, it doesn't matter what what culture is doing and people are getting away with, and and all these, not so with you because welcome to the club. You're a citizen of heaven. Welcome to the club. This is the standard I have for you to. And again, that shouldn't even bother us because we're abiding, right? I don't care if I get recognized by outward things. Uh, C.S. Lewis uh says excessive need from without is proof of bankruptcy from within. Wait, say that again. Excessive need from without is proof of bankruptcy from within. Wow. So the only time you're looking for things to fill from without is because you're bankrupt within. You're not spending time with Jesus, right? And so you'll just begin to find the things that you used to care about you don't care about anymore. They just don't matter. Like I I could truly go to a church in a small town of 20 people and spend the rest of my days pastoring and not thinking twice about it because I have this relationship with Jesus, and that's the most valuable thing on planet earth, and that will go with me wherever I go. It doesn't matter if I have fame, doesn't matter if I'm recognized, all these different things, you know, that we would gauge as success. You just you just don't care about it anymore. You you begin to live as like a person that can't be bought by these worldly things, right? Because you just have such confidence, you know, in the things of heaven.

Eran Holt 52:14

Yeah. And I think that's a challenge for us is that like we can we all have areas where we can be bought off.

Caleb Leake 52:20

Right.

Eran Holt 52:21

You know, the enemy, the world, culture, even church culture. You know, it can kind of buy us off. It can it can provide some affirmation in certain areas of our life where we have, you know, needs. Um, it can it can kind of meet the the quick fix of emotional insecurities that we have, you know. We don't always see that for what it is. I love what you were talking about with your mom, where your mom was like, what's the root of that? And I found that question has been very challenging in my life, but also very, very helpful when I'm feeling something or I'm struggling with something, just simply stepping back and saying, Okay, Holy Spirit, reveal to me what is what's producing that fruit in my life. I don't like that fruit. Yeah, where did that come from?

John Zick 53:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eran Holt 53:03

That's not always easy, by the way.

John Zick 53:04

That's for sure. Well, and that's where that you know, you you've got to be self-aware. And and you know, um the the scary part of that is if you ignore that long enough, eventually you will just be living in unhealthy fruit and think it's normal. Right. Um Wow because you because you you know, you kind of shut off his voice. Like I feel like, you know, he's get the Holy Spirit's gonna convict you, right? And you can either respond or you can shut it off.

Caleb Leake 53:30

Right.

John Zick 53:31

Um, and Aaron, that's exactly what you're talking about. That's responding in that moment is okay, hey, what's going on here? Holy Spirit, let me take a step back. This is a fruit that I'm not used to, that I I don't like, you know. Um, it just doesn't align. Why is that there? Let's get to the root. Okay, here's the issue. And I'm telling I'm telling you, I mean, 9.9999 times out of 10, it's gonna be it's gonna go back to abiding. Right. Yeah. It just is. I mean, you you name it, it's gonna go back to abiding, the root, abiding, abiding, abide in me. Um, you know.

Eran Holt 54:06

And let's like let's so let's add the context into that passage because you're talking John 15, but when you zoom out from John 15 and you include like John 12 all the way through, I think up to John 17 or 18, this is like Jesus' last couple moments with his disciples. Yeah. Before he gets to John 15, Jesus says, broken the news, I'm gonna leave you. That shakes the disciples. But then he also, and Judas betrays him, that shakes the disciples. Um, and then in addition to that, Jesus also says, Hey guys, everything you saw me do, you're gonna do all of that. Yeah, greater things are you gonna do. So it's like Jesus has really thrown like some serious pressure on the disciples here. Yeah, and then his ultimate answer to how to handle the pressure of life secret sauce abiding, what you're saying, John.

Caleb Leake 54:52

Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah. So and this really good when you zoom out isn't groundbreaking either. This isn't anything that's like, oh my gosh, I've never yeah, but you know what? It's exactly if you if this was something every pastor, every youth pastor was like, This is the thing I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna get my razor, dark blue razor phone, and I'm setting an alarm every hour. Yeah, it's like this will transform ministries, this would change the culture you have, the the problems you're facing. Because again, yeah, the scripture lays it out, and we even see Jesus did this too.

John Zick 55:21

So it's like, yeah, how do I get vision for my youth ministry? You abide. Right. I mean, you again, you just everything goes back to this. Yeah, right. Apart from me, you can do nothing. But if you remain in me, you will bear much fruit. Yeah, you know, and and that's what we've been called to do. We haven't been called to open doors for ourselves, we haven't been called to, you know, climb ladders. And I'm not saying we don't work hard, you know, but I'm just saying he will open the doors that need to be open. Right. We've been told above all else, guard your heart. Yeah. Yep. Because everything you do is gonna flow from that. Yeah.

Caleb Leake 55:58

Yeah.

John Zick 55:59

So your responsibility is to guard your heart. Your responsibility is to abide in me, and then everything else will begin to flow from that. Set your mind on things above and not on things below. And the doors that he opens are so much better than the doors that we could open ourselves, or even, you know, that the enemy could open for us to distract us from the things of heaven.

Eran Holt 56:20

I feel like this thought, um, this is like the perfect kickoff to season two, right here. Absolutely. Cause this episode will drop like early January, which like most of the church world is like prayer and fasting, kickoff season, reset. You know what I mean? So, John, thank you. Like, kind of like, because we we can go a lot of different ways on this podcast. Sometimes we go super like in your head, thinking, challenge your thinking. Sometimes we go super practical, you know, step by step. Here's how to do it in your youth ministry. This is like for the heart, right here. This is like heart alignment moment, you know, right here at the beginning of the year. So um, so good, John. Thanks so much for just kind of you know sharing, like, hey, here's what God's doing in my life, here's what God's showing me. And thanks for being vulnerable too. It you know, it's not it doesn't go without in my in my mind noticing when you're you're talking about like, yeah, I walk off stage after preaching, and then the Holy Spirit's like, Hey, John, you're not actually spending enough time with me. You're relying on your gifts too much. Like I appreciate your vulnerability and your your humility, your transparency there. Cause I think you're modeling something that is healthy and challenging, you know, for all of us.

John Zick 57:20

So it's ongoing. You know, it's it's a full-time job to guard your heart in today's culture. Um luckily that's that's what we have been asked to do, and he'll do the rest. So yeah, but it is a full-time job for sure.

Eran Holt 57:35

John, for um, for leaders that are listening, they want to connect with you personally or they want to connect with what you're doing at the national office with called and some of the incredible resources you guys have. What's the easiest way for them to get in touch with you? Email, website, whatever.

John Zick 57:48

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Our website is uh called.ag.org. Uh, and there's tons of resources on there, free resources. The only thing that is charged on our website is the books that we have. Uh everything else is free. So we have small group series that are free, videos, all those different things. Um, so yeah, go to call.ag.org. Uh, my email jayzikzn zebra i c it's like John Wick, but with a Z. Oh, I see what you did there. Yeah. You like that? Yeah, yeah. Uh Jzik at AG.org. Awesome. You can reach out to me there. That's so good, man. So good.

Caleb Leake 58:29

Heck yeah. Well, thanks for joining us. And uh thanks for listening. You suck it all the way through. Uh, we'll have all of what John just said in the show notes below. So if you want to reach out to him there or check out called, which I've actually used that called series stuff, so it's awesome. Uh, I recommend checking that out if you're a youth pastor. And uh, we'd love if you gave us your review, whether you're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, uh, whatever you can do to help uh blast us out to other people. We are so appreciative. And we are thankful again you joined us. We'll see you on the next one.