Intro (6s):
Trust the grinds presented by plan today's guest is Sandra Hakim.
Steve Ecker (40s):
Sandra is a chocolatier and a humanitarian. The first half of the interview, we talked about Sandra's online chocolate business, Basseema chocolate. We go over how she got started making chocolate. And what made her take the leap to run her own online business? The second half of the interview, we talk about her humanitarian work, which involves running a refugee camp in Greece. This was definitely one of the most impactful and engaging conversations Alec and I have ever had. So let's get right into it.
Steve Ecker (1m 19s):
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to trust the grind podcast today. We have a very special guests and as Sandra Hakim, and she is the owner and operator of New York base. Wow. I just ask chocolate's job and she runs an online business. That's very successful and selling what everyone loves chocolate. So we're very excited to have you on Sandra.
Sandra Hakim (1m 47s):
Thank you. Thank you. Nice to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Steve Ecker (1m 51s):
Absolutely. Thanks for making the time. So Sandra and I, we actually connected over the Seth Godin Akimbo Bootstrapper Workshop, got in bootstrappers workshop and we just kinda had similar work that we posted and we connected and we ended up, was going to have like a half hour conversation, but it turned into an hour. I gave my backstory, but Sandra's backstory is way more interesting than mine. So really excited to have Sandra and share her story. And I was really blown away by it.
Steve Ecker (2m 21s):
So let's just start off, but Sandra, can you tell us a little bit about your backstory?
Sandra Hakim (2m 24s):
Yeah, so I live in New York. I, I have an online chocolate store, like, like you said, I was born in Iraq. We moved to the USA after the Gulf war. And yeah. How old were you when, when, when you moved 13 and didn't speak a word of English, you know, the language and the culture and learning everything new and adapting, it was, it was brutal, but we survived then I'm so grateful.
Sandra Hakim (3m 1s):
I'm so grateful. My parents were brave enough to, you know, take that leap of faith and, and we're all here and safe and, and, and God, we're very blessed.
Alec Martucci (3m 13s):
So were you making chocolate as early as 13? Cause that's how you, that's how you make friends, Sandra, I'm just telling you, right?
Sandra Hakim (3m 22s):
Yeah, no, I, you know, I've always been an artist. So I, I was a painter, you know, art was my form of expression and actually I was a makeup artist. You know, when I, I grew up, I was a makeup artist living in LA, working on movie sets, print work, and, and a job took me to New York, a production company that was filming in New York. And I fell in love with the city. I loved the diversity.
Sandra Hakim (3m 53s):
I loved the energy. I loved the, the way people express themselves. And, and the, just, just all of it, you know, that whole real city feeling. And so I moved. So I've been in New York for 15 years now.
3 (4m 8s):
I mean, I've been in a few places around the world, but there's something about the energy. And also the acceptance of all types of literally everyone is in New York, like a big melting pot. And it's a very beautiful place. Now you're in Italy getting your masters. You want to elaborate on that experience.
Sandra Hakim (4m 26s):
I decided last year to, to move to LA, to get my master's in food and beverage management. And as we all know, the pandemic happened and then yeah, my school closed. Then we went online and I decided to move to Florence. So I went through the whole lockdown in Florence and it was amazing because it's a smaller city and we're wrong. We're almost like New York chaotic big, you know, so much going on, but it's a great city.
Sandra Hakim (4m 58s):
It's, it's a fantastic city. So it's, it's, it's been great. Things are back to normal and everything is really back to normal or shut down with or locked down was brutal. You know, we have police cars, we had drones. We, we had a curfew, 6:00 PM, what we survive and now everything is open and Europeans couldn't even travel, but unfortunately, Americans can't come yet
2 (5m 26s):
Off about this. Sandra, the fact that I would, without a doubt rather be, or even if everything was good as gold here, you know, would rather be in Florence or literally anywhere else in Italy right now. I mean, we need these drones. We need the police out here. We should repeat, we need up serious though. I wouldn't be able to go to a chocolate shop. You know,
Sandra Hakim (5m 49s):
I totally agree with you. I, I mean, in my opinion, I feel the lockdowns in the U S weren't like real lock downs. Unfortunately, you know, my family's still there and I mean, our lockdowns were so strict.
2 (6m 4s):
Can I, can I just ask real quick? I'm really curious. So best chocolate showpiece, 2010, I think it is of and correct me if I'm wrong. It was a university of Switzerland.
Sandra Hakim (6m 16s):
Yeah. It was the DCT university. So, so after, you know, being a makeup artist for over 10 years, I decided to getting to the nonprofit world. So I went back to NYU and I took a few classes on philanthropy. And right after graduation, I was approached by two nonprofit organizations who wanted to do a work in Iraq. They wanted to work with children. And so they wanted to go to Baghdad.
Sandra Hakim (6m 47s):
And at that time, I, I believe it was in 2008 and it was not a good idea to go to Baghdad because it was just, you know, trouble. Yeah, exactly. And I said, well, if you want to work with children and in Iraq, you can go to Curtis, Dan, which is a safer region. And, you know, if you go to Baghdad, you help these kids. But as soon as you leave the, the argument, they will not only steal the laptops, but abused the kids who interacted with Americans.
Sandra Hakim (7m 23s):
So it's best to take these projects to the North where it's safe and, you know, no harm will be done, but you'll be doing good work. So we went there and it was amazing. The, the project was great. And then I came back to the U S and we ran conflict resolution programs with kids from New York, DC and Minnesota. And we started a pen pal program between Iraqi kids and American kids. And I was translating all the letters between them and, and it was wonderful.
Sandra Hakim (7m 56s):
It was, it was amazing. And so the, the organization run out of money and I thought, alright, I need a career. So that's when I went into the food world and I started at a culinary school in New York, and I knew pastry and sweet where my passion. So I decided to look to Switzerland and take a course in chocolate making.
Sandra Hakim (8m 26s):
I ended up winning first place for my chocolate showpiece and yeah.
2 (8m 31s):
The humanitarian side. And, but before we get there, just, just because chocolate is, is, you know, your profession and enables you to do philanthropic work or correct me if I'm wrong. Of course, I'm curious, what was the piece that, you know, you won best chocolate.
Sandra Hakim (8m 49s):
So, yeah, the love was the theme. And most kids were, you know, like a man and a woman and like rings and things like that. So I thought, you know, love, you know, love is in everything. And so my showpiece was heart made out of chocolate. I drew it, I drew it first and then, you know, made the chocolate and assembled everything. And it was really, it was just really, really beautiful and really delicate and elegant. And I guess they liked it.
3 (9m 21s):
Love is a universal language, not just like in a relationship, it's real people, which is, I think it ultimately a great message to promote
2 (9m 32s):
Know you have your chocolate shop in New York, but, so what is the idea behind, is there any significance behind the name there? Where did it come from?
Sandra Hakim (9m 45s):
So, yeah, after I came back from Switzerland, I, you know, I entered and then I worked at a few chocolate shops in New York and I saw the quality was not nothing close to what I was eating and you know, what I was tasting in Switzerland. And so I thought, boy, if we need, we need to change that. So, so yeah, I, I decided to start my own business and the word Bessima means delicious in that Aramaic.
Sandra Hakim (10m 21s):
And I speak RMA because we're actually, Kelvion, we're Babylonian and that's our mother tongue. So I wanted to give something back to my heritage. And, and that's how the name came about.
2 (10m 36s):
I like that a lot. I think it's more, it's more than just the name almost. It's more than just delicious chocolate, right? It embodies almost the journey that, that you and your family have have had, and that it's enabled you to open a chocolate shop.
3 (10m 48s):
I'm curious to see how you got started with it.
Sandra Hakim (10m 51s):
I was working full time at a French bakery and, and then I thought, you know, what, why don't I start making chocolate at home? And so I would make chocolate at home and dropped some off at the coffee shop, you know, my local coffee shop and gift to friends and, and word of mouth grew. And so I quit my job and I decided to focus on my chocolate business. And I rented a kitchen in Brooklyn, shared kitchen in a restaurant, which was, yeah, that has its own difficulties.
Sandra Hakim (11m 28s):
But yeah, I started making chocolate and, and got a website going and connected with local stores and, and then events. And it just grew from there.
2 (11m 43s):
I like the fact that it sounds like you worked it out with someone where you were able to, I guess, lease their space for, for of the day
3 (11m 54s):
To, to get your business up and running. Because I feel like that's less of a risk at least financially speaking. And you're able to kind of get a feel to see if this is something worthwhile.
Sandra Hakim (12m 7s):
Yeah, no, you're, you're absolutely right. You know, I didn't want to get my, my own kitchen like right away, because as you know, New York are a now, so I'm there usually from like three, four to midnight. And then of course during the day I'm doing my own social media and doing my own marketing, my own billing, my own deliveries. I, I was the, the, everything,
3 (12m 38s):
Yeah. The ultimate entrepreneur where you were doing that, you're wearing every hat essentially. So I know every entrepreneur runs into roadblocks are unavoidable and some tough business moments come up, but what helped you get through them? Because it sounds like you were working very long days and that has to be exhausted.
Sandra Hakim (12m 58s):
You do have moments where you're so exhausted. You just want to work for somebody else. Cause it's just sounds easier. But I think my love for chocolate and my love for the reaction I get, when people try my chocolate or eat my chocolate, it's, it's a, it was so rewarding. And I, I love seeing people happy and, and enjoying, enjoying good food.
3 (13m 25s):
We were actually going to ask you is seeing people's reaction in your chocolate, the best part of what you do. Absolutely. Absolutely. We haven't touched on it, but your chocolate is also healthy, correct?
Sandra Hakim (13m 37s):
That's right. That's right. I sourced from like the best sources, most organic, most ethical, most sustainable. And that that's really important to me. You know, I'm happy to pay more than fair trades for the chocolate that I, I buy and, you know, because I want the farmer to have a sustainable life and their children and their children's children. That's really important. And same with other raw ingredients.
Sandra Hakim (14m 6s):
Everything I use, you know, like if I'm getting macho from Japan, you know, I want it to be from the best source and, and the best possible, you know, company that has, you know, that does ethical work, but I don't buy the cheapest too. It's just, it's, it's, it's not my company. And yeah, I, I, I find the most important thing when, when you're working with foods, if you have, if you have clean raw quality raw ingredients, then your product will just does its own magic.
Sandra Hakim (14m 51s):
And I use 50%, less sugar than regular companies, because I feel like chocolate is a perfect food on its own. So you don't need to put sugar so much sugar to cover any, anything, you know, I want it to be like, as pure, as clean, as healthy as possible, because I want you to enjoy it. I want you to feel great after you have chocolate. I don't want you to feel, Oh, you know, I, I have a tummy ache.
Sandra Hakim (15m 25s):
So the feeling is also really important.
3 (15m 27s):
Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people, when they eat chocolate, they get this guilty feeling of it being packed with sugar and unhealthy. And they're like, Oh, like, this isn't good for me, but from what it sounds like, your chocolate is pure, just enjoyment. And also it's good for you. That's right. That's right.
2 (15m 46s):
I also, I really like how you take in consideration where your money is going and also therefore the clients or customers money, you know, cause people like to see that their money is having a positive effect besides buying a beautiful chocolate and you, it get to a very talented chocolate tier.
Sandra Hakim (16m 2s):
If we don't support the farmers, then we won't have farmers.
2 (16m 10s):
Yeah. It's too obvious. So what being an entrepreneur and we kind of touched on roadblocks, at least in regards to maybe transitioning from leasing a kitchen to your own shop and you know, this, that, and the other in between there, but are there any other road blocks that, that you can tell us about like maybe some tough business moments and, and how you got through those particular moments?
Sandra Hakim (16m 37s):
There are always obstacles when, you know, you're, when you're doing quality chocolate and you're you present it to companies that they want the chocolate, but they want to pay for M&Ms and it's, it's like, okay, if you want, I'm going to go to the M and M shop.
2 (17m 4s):
So eating M and M's is what motivated you to not be MNS, right?
Sandra Hakim (17m 11s):
Yeah. So, you know, the, the, the, you know, you come across these situations and you just have to be firm with your decision when, you know, when companies want to like, take it for nothing and, you know, you, they would argue, okay, well, use cheaper chocolate, you know, and, and, and make it. And I'm like, sorry, that's just not gonna work.
3 (17m 35s):
What you value is having the freshest ingredients, you know, making really quality, well thought out chocolate. And by you making the cheaper chocolate, that conflicts what you stand for. So it's good that you're taking a stand against those companies versus just
2 (17m 50s):
Trying to make it.
Sandra Hakim (17m 52s):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
2 (17m 54s):
Unless Steve has any other questions I'd like to actually shift to the more your humanitarian causes and what you've done outside of, outside of chocolate, specifically, Sandra, one of, one of the many things that stuck out to me was actually a story that was part of your journey, the beginning of your journey, where I believe you were on in a coastal town along the shore, and you saw something out in the ocean, is that right?
Sandra Hakim (18m 26s):
Right. So in 2015, the refugee crisis hit Greece and well, not just Greece, Turkey, Greece, Europe, you know? And I think I, yeah, I remember I saw a picture of a boy washed up on the shore. It was in the New York times. And so I, I was reading the article and it was just like, how is this happening? How is this possible? And I just cry. So I asked my friends that do nonprofit work.
Sandra Hakim (18m 57s):
And I said, is anyone going to Greece? Is it, is this really happening? I'd like to see for myself. So two of my friends were going and they were going for two days and I said, alright, do you have room for one, one more person? And as soon as we arrived, we, the Greek driver was driving us around the Island. And he's like, this is where they come from. And, and, and there was a bonfire and we ask these people what's happened, you know, what's going on. And the, they said, there's a boat coming.
Sandra Hakim (19m 29s):
So we parked the car and, you know, head to the shore and, you know, soon enough it's, it's about what's coming. It was pitch black. It was like, I think 11:00 PM. They like, all I can hear is like, help us help us. And I said, when people are asking for help, so we, we go into like, to the water, like up to our like ankles and that what was thinking, the people that were helping these people, we just joined them and pull the boat, the boat to the shore, to, to, to the, you know, what do you call it?
Sandra Hakim (20m 6s):
The shore. And, yeah, it was packed with people, packed with women, children, you know, it was like the worst situation ever. Like everyone was crying and screaming and, you know, disoriented. And there were great volunteers who had set up a, a first response. We call it a first
2 (20m 35s):
Area or like a shelter.
Sandra Hakim (20m 38s):
Yeah. Like a small first response camp. And there were volunteers from, from well, volunteers from everywhere. So, so yeah, we, we did that throughout the night, you know, helping them get dry, give them new clothes, register them, you know, translate what the doctors give them hot tea, you know, you know, comfort them, you know, telling them that they're okay. You know, they're going to be okay, everything's fine.
Sandra Hakim (21m 9s):
They're here now. And yeah, we did that until like two, three in the morning because it was like boat after boat, after boat. And, and, and then two days of that, and my friends were like, all right, well, we're heading back to New York. And I was like, actually, I'm going to stay for a few more weeks because it's, it just felt right. I couldn't abandon these people, knowing that I could help so much just the language itself.
Sandra Hakim (21m 40s):
What's such a link between the two, you know, entities. So, yeah. So I stayed for the next two weeks and did that for, you know, every day. And, and then when I went back to New York and I had to go back to New York because I was still running my online store and it was during the holidays, it was really busy and fulfilled all my orders and gave all my, my clients three month supply because I was planning to go out and go back in January.
Sandra Hakim (22m 11s):
And, and then, so I did that and January came, I went back to Greece. Then I, are you familiar with the rescue international rescue committee? It was either the UN or international rescue committee. They're like, we want you to like, Oh, okay. So I started working for them. And then this situation just kept changing.
2 (22m 36s):
You know, you mentioned earlier how it was like your first day there, these, these folks come ashore, they're saved and they're distraught disoriented. But one of the first things they hear is someone speaking their language, speaking Arabic, like, was that, was it clear that that may have been sort of comforting to them?
Sandra Hakim (22m 56s):
You know, when the volunteers would tell them, you know, obviously, obviously there's a language barrier. And then when they hear Arabic, they like, they start crying and they give me a hug and, you know, it's like, they just feel like everything is going to be okay because you recognize someone that was comforting. Someone speaks their language,
2 (23m 17s):
But yourself, those little moments, did that help you answer the call to stay? Because you originally said you were only supposed to be there for two.
Sandra Hakim (23m 26s):
Yeah. Oh yeah. After I saw that, I was like, if I go back and within two days, I would be thinking, and I would just be thinking about these people and thinking that I, I saw something horrible happening and I turned my back. So I, I, I couldn't that. So I decided to stay and do as much as I can. And then plan to come back.
3 (23m 53s):
You went back, you went back to New York, then you went back to Greece. How did you kind of transitioned since I believe you were running the refugee camp at one point, is that right?
Sandra Hakim (24m 5s):
Yes, exactly. So you're up close their borders. And I was, then I was working with the international rescue committee, helping the mainly women and children, you know, protecting women, women and children in this said illegal camp that borders Macedonia. So eventually they, they evacuated that camp and they decided to put the people in a, like in government camps and the government camps for the worst possible condition you can imagine.
Sandra Hakim (24m 41s):
So we decided, so my two philanthropist philanthropist, friends decided to build a refugee camp in Thessaloniki. And they asked me if I would run it. And of course I said, yes, we took over a warehouse and built everything from the ground. We had rooms, each room had a refrigerator beds, a dining, you know, like a small dining table, just a humane, like basic humane need to feel normal.
Sandra Hakim (25m 15s):
You know, we'll have, have gone through so much and to put them in and built the ground with, you know, just to that, that's, that's just not right. So, so yeah, we provided the groceries and they would cook their own food. And we had educational classes for the adults. We had education classes for the children. We built a playground. We managed to get a partners with, with a medical team.
Sandra Hakim (25m 50s):
It's like a lot of psychology team, a immigration lawyers. You know, we, we partnered with many wonderful organizations and it was really successful. It was really wonderful.
3 (26m 2s):
How did you kind of maintain a positive mindset or just like a strong, resilient mindset to keep going? Because I imagine what you dealt with was extremely heavy.
Sandra Hakim (26m 13s):
Honestly. Like God kept me sane and I had to be strong for the people I had to, you know, if, if, if they see me functioning and, and, and, and if, if I'm leading well, then they're confident that everything's going to be fine. So I had to be that every day, it doesn't matter how I was feeling. I have to show up that way. And, and then, yeah, so I like, I, I would hold meetings once a week with, you know, meetings with the women meetings, with the men separately because of the culture, you know, like we, we worked together, you know, I wanted them to feel valued also and feel that they're not just refugees, you know, that they, they have skills, use your skills.
Sandra Hakim (27m 10s):
You know, if you want to build something, if you want to build a chair or table, we, we have, you know, so we have like workshops where they can do these things. We had, you know, like the women's meetings. I, you know, I said, well, what do you guys need? What do you need? And they're like, all right, well, let's start a sewing sewing program. And, and so the women were teaching other women that didn't know how to sew and, you know, they would make pajamas for the kids.
Sandra Hakim (27m 40s):
And so through, you know, small things like that, it really kept the peace and it brought the people together.
2 (27m 48s):
It sounds like it enabled a sense of community. Is that
Sandra Hakim (27m 52s):
Absolutely. We've had a wonderful community
2 (27m 56s):
Get there though. Are they?
Sandra Hakim (27m 59s):
Yes. I remember there was this adorable, gorgeous little, two year old, her face was just in, in not only shock, but like, like this fearful phase, like she's in fear, she's in, in, she never smiles. She, you know, she, she has like a fear on her face when, when she first arrived and, you know, month after month after month, her face lights up, she runs, you know, across the camp, smiling, playing with other kids, you know, just like her spirit was back.
Sandra Hakim (28m 39s):
And it's incredible when I look at photos from one day arrived. And from when, you know, like a year later being in the camp, like completely different people, really like, it's incredible how children can pick up fear. And even at, like, at that age, you know, they know something is wrong and when they feel safe, it's, it's, it just, it just shows
2 (29m 6s):
We would like to go back to, to chocolate if that's okay. I got a quick question on a lighter note. So the red hot chili peppers donated to the camp. That's one of my favorite bands. Will that be one of your favorite pants because of the donation?
Sandra Hakim (29m 21s):
I love them. They're one of my favorite. I saw them in LA, like, I think like eight years ago or nine years ago, a long time ago. And it was like the best concert.
2 (29m 38s):
Can I ask Sandra, how did they come across? You are, have,
Sandra Hakim (29m 42s):
Have a wonderful network at P you know, network group. And basically, you know, they were really active. They reached out to everyone they knew and, you know, told them about the project that we were doing. And people were really generous. Our camp was privately funded, so everything, you know, everything we, we, we did was donations from, you know, like PR the private sector, which was incredible.
Sandra Hakim (30m 13s):
And that's why we were able to do, you know, what we did because it was not waiting for the government to, you know, so like, so normally if you're, if you're a government can, and let's say you need a wheelchair for someone, you have to sign off, maybe like 10, 10, different, like, you know, papers to get that approved. And it would take maybe six to eight months to get a wheelchair where, and like, when it's like private, the first person needs a wheelchair.
Sandra Hakim (30m 50s):
There is no, no need to go through all that BS and just get that wheelchair. Now
Steve Ecker (30m 56s):
It's too many barriers where yours was more of a read and react and act accordingly and get help people faster versus being like political about it. I like, did you want to ask your chocolate question? So when can I buy some
Sandra Hakim (31m 13s):
Well, so, so I'm here until October and hopefully I'll be heading back to New York, October, November. And as soon as I come back, I'm reopening the kitchen and I'm so excited to be back in business and all this stuff that I've learned here, I will, I will infuse in my new recipes.
Steve Ecker (31m 37s):
Hey, we might be more excited to try it.
Sandra Hakim (31m 41s):
Thanks, Steve. Why don't we overwhelm Sandra and hit her with the rapid fire.
Steve Ecker (31m 45s):
Sandra, are you ready for the rapid fire questions besides chocolate? What's your favorite candy? What's your favorite song right now?
Sandra Hakim (31m 56s):
I'm terrible with names, but I'm going to look at Spotify and the name is rock star by a dead baby. Wow.
Steve Ecker (32m 9s):
I was expecting post Malone, but the baby is way better.
Sandra Hakim (32m 16s):
He's like the first. Yeah. I love him. He's great. Yeah.
Steve Ecker (32m 19s):
What's the first thing you do in the morning
Sandra Hakim (32m 21s):
House. I get my coffee and croissant and get on the bike for a few hours and then come home. Who do you admire the most? My mother.
Steve Ecker (32m 31s):
What's your favorite summer activity?
Sandra Hakim (32m 33s):
Going to the beach with friends and enjoying the sun and the ocean and swimming. Just not have a single worry on my mind. What's your favorite kind of flowers? Peonies.
Steve Ecker (32m 46s):
What's one thing you wish everyone would do help others. Yeah. You walked that walk for sure. And final one. What's your personal motto.
Sandra Hakim (32m 54s):
It really is. Just go for it. You just do it. You know, you, you have something in your mind just don't overthink it. Just do it. Take action.
Steve Ecker (33m 4s):
We also do one farewell question. Are you familiar with the movie Ferris? Bueller's day off.
Sandra Hakim (33m 10s):
I have to. I have to. I'm terrible with names.
Steve Ecker (33m 12s):
Yeah. It's like a kid skipped school in Chicago, like high school. And basically just has like a day off with no yeah.
Sandra Hakim (33m 20s):
Instructions or limitations. So you get the opportunity. You have your best friend, two of your best friends and your partner, whomever, and you guys are, are, you know, high school age, and you all of a sudden have the opportunity to skip school and get away with it. What are you doing? That was a teenager. Yeah. Let's say a teenager. Or if you want to say, say now, just to keep it up, family friendly, know what I would do. I would probably call a few of my girlfriends and take a trip to a town that's not too far from here and spend a day at the spa and then have a really good meal with a really good wine and just enjoy, enjoy Tuscany.
Steve Ecker (34m 8s):
That's definitely the most majestic. We shot it
Sandra Hakim (34m 14s):
Before we go. Sandra, can you just tell everybody where they can find you social media let's do Instagram best, best CMI chocolate, which is B a S E M a and then chocolate. I'm also on Facebook, but not so active on Facebook, but Instagram would be the easiest platform. And then, and then when is your store opening up again? Cause I'm sorry, Sandra. That's all I'm thinking about here.
Sandra Hakim (34m 46s):
I'd make you something now and I'm
Steve Ecker (34m 52s):
We want to get out of the U S so yeah.
Sandra Hakim (34m 55s):
Oh my God. I can't believe that I will reopen in October. No, I'm sorry. I'll be reopening in November, in November, just in time for the holidays. It sounds like exactly. Did you have a website actually? I'm sorry. I did. Yeah. I had a website, but I put it on hold, but yeah, it's www w dot B a S E M a chocolate.com. Okay, perfect. And otherwise, the best way to reach out and contact, you sounds like Instagram for now, right?
Sandra Hakim (35m 25s):
Yes. Yeah.
Steve Ecker (35m 27s):
Well, that's all I had. And Sandra, thank you again so much for making the time to do this Alec and I really enjoyed this conversation and we think people will get lot of benefit outfit.
Sandra Hakim (35m 38s):
Well, thank you guys for having me. This was really, really wonderful, and I'm still happy to finally meet you. And this was really great. Thank you for all you're doing.
Steve Ecker (35m 51s):
We hope you enjoyed that episode with Sandra Alec and I both really admire how Cedris make an impact on the world and her desire to help people. Also, if you can tell, we are very excited to try her chocolate in November. Be sure to follow her at Bosley ma chocolate for all updates on Sandra's chocolate business. Now, if you could rate and review, trust or grind on Apple, that would be awesome. We're pretty new to the podcast end game, and we want to hear your feedback. Trust the grind is presented by plant dope shit for 15% off, use promo code trusts or grind at checkout.
Steve Ecker (36m 25s):
Visit WW dot dot com for more information that you, everyone for taking the time to listen, stay safe out there and have a great day.
Steve Ecker (36m 41s):
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