Today's Episode
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Today's Episode
Wonder Man (PILOT)
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Marvel’s first live-action Disney+ series since Ironheart, Wonder Man stars Yahya Abdul-Mateen II as Simon Williams in a Hollywood-meta buddy comedy. Ben Kingsley returns as Trevor Slattery, the infamous fake Mandarin, now pulled into Simon’s orbit as another agency takes an interest in Simon’s secret powers. Meanwhile, Simon just wants to land a role in the reboot of the childhood superhero that made him fall in love with acting.
On the podcast, we break down the show’s reception, our thoughts on the plot, how it compares to similar comedies, and where it fits into Marvel’s Phase Six. Welcome to Today’s Episode!
Welcome to today's episode of the podcast where we discuss the most recent installments of a different series every show. It is Friday, January 30th, and as we close out the month, Marvel is busy ramping up for its newest phase. You know, they're supposed to have the most amount of TV shows come out this year, despite, I think a few years ago, Bob Iger or whatever coming out and saying, we're gonna slow down on this thing. Can you name all the TV shows coming out this year? And and some of them are sequels, like uh second seasons too.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so I think I read that like The Amazing Spider-Man or your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man is gonna be uh season two. We're talking TV shows. Yeah. Daredevil, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Uh Daredevil, which just released its trailer. What'd you think of that? I didn't see the trailer for it. Oh, can I ruin something for you? Okay, go ahead. Okay, Kristen Ritter's gonna be in it. Jessica Jones, I think. Yes, Jessica Jones is and it's coming out in March. I don't think Oh, Vision Quest is supposed to be coming out in March. Perfect. Yeah, that's the third, that's a third one that's out there. I also throw in that Punisher, the special, it wrapped, uh, so that that's coming out. And then we already discussed X-Men 97 season one that came out a few years ago. They got great reviews. This show, Wonderman, which you just watched the first episode too. And I have a bunch of different reviews that I'm gonna jump into right now, just so that you can like tell me whether or not this makes sense. Okay. New York Times said Wonderman pushes Marvel into unfamiliar territory. USA.
SPEAKER_01:This is this is unlike any other Marvel show, I feel like.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, USA says that Wonderman is it might be too weird for Marvel. It's too weird for Marvel?
SPEAKER_01:That's what USA says. I mean, like, there's so many shows like it, like the studio, the franchise, entourage. I don't think it's too weird. And Marvel is no stranger to weird. So I yeah, I disagree with that.
SPEAKER_00:You know what? Kevin Feige or Fage or whatever, you know what he said when he heard that? When he heard anybody compare the two? He was livid. He was mad because they actually finished this show before those the studio and the franchise. Oh, really? And so he knew that people were gonna be like, they're jumping on the bandwagon. But in fact, they were the bandwagon. So the turn around the turnaround was so long for a week. It was the writer's stag that they had to delay it significantly. So I guess all these actors have aged, especially Ben Kingsley. If you see him now compared to what he's lost all his hair. No, so what who does Ben Kings Kingsley play again?
SPEAKER_01:Trevor Slattery plays the Mandarin.
SPEAKER_00:And you've seen him in like his character.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he was shown uh he shown up in Iron Man 3 originally, and then he showed up in Shang-Chi. Do you remember the controversy that surrounded the Mandarin when Iron Man 3 came out?
SPEAKER_00:I do remember that people were a little bit upset at the portrayal, like that he was just an actor in the end, right? Yeah, no, because you you hire an Oscar winner like Ben Kingsley and you think he's going to bring a lot of gravitas. Like it's the equivalent of when they brought in uh Christian Bale, and he took that role super seriously for Batman in a Thor film that was then panned because of how comedic it was, and he did not get the memo. It's like the opposite of that because uh I know Sean Chi was not the most or not, Iron Man 3 was supposed to be like the conclusion to Tony Stark, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, what the Mandarin is, is like it's Iron Man's Moriarty. And I think that it really fixed itself in Endgame when Thanos was really Marvel uh or Iron Man's foil. But I think that with the Mandarin, people were so mad at how good that first hour was. I remember all the reviews were like, this is an amazing film for the first hour, but fanboys will be pissed like midway through. And yeah, it's because Guy Pierce is apparently the real Mandarin.
SPEAKER_00:But Guy Pierce isn't in this show. So back to Ben Kingsley, he's he's playing just an actor. His real name in the show is Trevor Slattery, right? Yeah, and uh and I didn't know he was actually supposed to be a good actor. I thought he was supposed to be like just a flamed-out like dude who just like never got any work. But it seems like people in Hollywood still like him, even though he was technically a terrorist.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, I the one of the first things that Simon says, the main character of this, Simon Williams, he says to him, I really liked you as the Mandarin. And I feel like if anyone actually said that in this world, you'd be like walking the other way. Like that's a crazy thing to say.
SPEAKER_00:He does end up sort of redeeming himself in Shang-Chi. Yeah? Yes. That and also the fact that he had that magic footstool that was like bouncing around and stuff because he gets kidnapped. And then I I don't remember very clearly, but I do wish that they had brought the Beauty and the Beast footstool along to Wonderman. I think it could have provided a little extra magic. So we're saying that it's unfamiliar territory, that it's too weird for Marvel. The Guardian said that it's a Marvel show with almost no superhero action.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, right. The there, in fact, even the references are so small. I think they talk about Simon Williams having like a superpower at some point. Well, you see it.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I watched the show too, or the first episode as well. And there are times I think he starts with shaking his apartment when he gets really mad, and then he's also sitting there trying to memorize his lines, and he starts to freak out, and you see the red orbs go around his irises.
SPEAKER_01:But I'm talking more about like kind of the Ant-Man quantum mania where they're like bringing up Spider-Man. There's like very little references to any superheroes in the world.
SPEAKER_00:It's there are more references to common media, Sons of Anarchy, right? American Horror Story. It just seems like they're, yeah, trying to downscale it into a more character-driven story, and that's why it's under Marvel Spotlight as opposed to the regular Marvel logo.
SPEAKER_01:That was one of the things I, yeah, one of the first things I mentioned, because Marvel Spotlight is like offshoot Marvel stories.
SPEAKER_00:Literally, they've only had Echo and this. So it's so far. Okay. Yeah, it's not supposed to be like this all-embrasive plot that is world-defining, but it would be interesting if season two they decided to switch it up. And the first season was a spotlight, and then the second season, suddenly it's back to the Marvel logos. Um, no, I think that they this is the only other one that they've set up like it. Decider said that it's accessible to even non-Marvel fans. Do you agree?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Because again, it's it doesn't have anything to do with superpowers.
SPEAKER_00:And the last one I'll give you is that Popverse said Wonder Man is the Andor of Marvel Studios. Okay. I don't think.
SPEAKER_01:What does that mean? I well, Andor was so loved by like a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00:You could take it directly like that. You could also think about it like Star Wars flailed around for a long time, still is, um, in some people's minds. And so, like, Andor kind of it was this offshoot storyline that shouldn't have worked as well as it did. Kind of like the movie it was based off of Rebel, whatever. Um, but Rogue One. Rogue One, thank you. Um, and and so the fact that it worked is kind of just a mystery. Do you think that Wonder Man is in the same vein?
SPEAKER_01:I don't think that it's as good as Andor, but they're completely different shows. I think the last time we've gotten this many pop culture references was probably back in the Guardian of the Galaxy franchise, but even then I don't think that the references, and we already mentioned a couple of them, are as recent as these ones here.
SPEAKER_00:Your one of your favorite shows is Sense of Anarchy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I do like it when the main character brought that up. I I really like the detail to it because he's supposed to, he's supposed to be on the show American Horror Story, which I found, yeah, which was also on FX just in the past.
SPEAKER_00:I couldn't tell because I know they mentioned Ryan Murphy, but then it seemed like the bad guy that they were setting him up to be killed by in the show, and we will we will discuss the plot in a second, but like that he that it wasn't like one of the American Horror Stories villains that I was aware of. Like I mean, it could have been a rubber man guy, but like I thought it was like a vampire or something that was gonna get him.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I guess now that we see the mask for it, but no, he's literally supposed to be on American Horror Story, like that's the episode, and I found that super ironic and cool because on my the last show that I reviewed was The Beauty, which was a which was also a Ryan Murphy show, but also it had Evan Peters, Anthony Ramos, and Rebecca Hall, all from the MCU. Rebecca Hall was in Iron Man 3, if you remember that.
SPEAKER_00:And I think Ryan Murphy's coming out with another story, like really soon. I think it's Love Story or something like that.
SPEAKER_01:Which is a love story, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Which is tackling JFK's uh life and obviously doing his own spin on that one. Um, regardless of what you think of Ryan Murphy, does that mean when he got fired, when Simon gets fired from the set, they were actually calling Ryan Murphy?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it case because that's because they said the showrunner. They needed to get, yeah, the shot done for the day. And I can also even connect it a little bit to uh Starfleet Academy, because if you remember Starfleet Academy, I talked about Star Trek Into Darkness, and that came out two weeks after Iron Man 3.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so you're basically Kevin Fage's like worst fan right now because again, he he wanted to be a trendsetter. It seems like all these other articles were willing to say, yes, this is completely new, hasn't been done before. Simon Williams is a struggling actor marooned in LA. It's kind of his own la la land, but he doesn't dance, or at least we haven't seen him dance yet. Uh, and he comes in aggressively overprepared for a part. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And we learned that that's not like the first time he does it for all of his roles.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And it just feels like he doesn't, he has no self-awareness. Yeah, if you're gonna be an actor, you kind of have to realize when other people are starting to get a little annoyed with you.
SPEAKER_01:It made me cringe and it reminded me a lot of Aaron Sorkin because I did like watch his masterclass, and the his biggest pet peeve was when actors were weighing in too much. Whenever they wanted to like change a line in the show or they wanted to have their own story, Aaron Sorkin was always like, that's the most annoying thing an actor can do.
SPEAKER_00:And that's why Sorkin has a lot of people who don't like him, you know, like uh Rob Low and stuff like that. But but uh there are other directors like Christopher Nolan who says things like uh most actors are lie detectors, they are very perceptive and they can tell when things aren't going their way or when when they should be doing something.
SPEAKER_01:Well, even Simon Williams, when he first is talking about like the moonlight that they have set up, like the director does end up changing this uh where it is. So you think at first that like Simon Williams has this like eye for directing, even though he's an actor, and then it's like, oh no, he's just gained too far.
SPEAKER_00:I think most people knew where that scene was going right off the bat. And it was nice to see that it was unlike the franchise where everybody's kind of an asshole to one another, the actors, the the studio heads, the assistant director, kind of pushing blame onto anywhere else but themselves. And even in the studio, it's like tried not to blame us, even though they they know that they're the assholes. In this, it was like everybody was trying to be part of a team until they realized that Simon is a problem. And so then they send their fixer out there to just kind of fire him. That's what happens. And then he comes home to even worse news because his girlfriend is leaving him. She is leaving him under the pretense that he doesn't he doesn't understand her or he doesn't ask her about her life, or like you know, he doesn't care for her. He doesn't open up, right? But this guy seems sort of like an open book, so I wasn't quite buying that.
SPEAKER_01:Were you? Well, I thought that like it was just to show that he was down on his luck.
SPEAKER_00:I know it was supposed to show. I'm just saying, like, this guy is very hard on his sleeve. You know, he's like, I care about movies, I write my notes everywhere, I overthink things, I'm desperate for validation. It seems weird that his girlfriend would then be like, You're so closed off.
SPEAKER_01:But maybe I think I think it's maybe just to show how upset, like movies are the only thing he really cares about.
SPEAKER_00:Right. He's but like that's most actors, isn't it? Until they make their big break, it's it's kind of obsessive about their career. Even that new George Clooney flick, the J something or other. Yeah, thank you. Where he in the past is like working with a big acting crew, and then he like goes in there and he gets the job, and then suddenly he kind of dis dismisses everybody. He steals the guy's girlfriend, you know, all that jazz.
SPEAKER_01:I would say that this is like has a dash of almost Wes Anderson vibes to it. It may not be as uh as crazy as those films get, but definitely like the way that it's shot.
SPEAKER_00:Wes Anderson's Wonder Man. You know what also had a Wes Anderson vibe was that Apple TV show about Billy Cruttup that where he was like selling tomorrow? Yeah, it was Tomorrowland or something. No, it's not Tomorrowland. It's the George Clooney. I keep on referencing George Clooney films, but yeah, where they even have a TV show in that show that's in the 60s, kind of like Wonderman, where he keeps on seeing like this kind of goofy guy running around, and now they're doing a recasting for that. But before all that happens, Simon, he's down on his luck, he's lost out on his gigs, he's lost his girlfriend, he goes to see a movie in the middle of the day. Who hasn't? You know, like just by themselves to like relax.
SPEAKER_01:It was a retro movie theater, though. They're playing like young Frankenstein and uh if you've been to LA, they have a ton of those everywhere. And he goes to see Midnight Cowboys. That's a strange one to see.
SPEAKER_00:I think this is like the first film to be rated X.
SPEAKER_01:I think it was the first film to be rated X and also like win an Oscar or something like that.
SPEAKER_00:I haven't seen it, but I know enough about it. And I also do know a fact that he didn't bring up, which was that like I think Harrison Ford originally tried out for one of the main roles.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Wait, which one? Well, the John Voigt character. Oh, okay. So he was like the cowboy.
SPEAKER_01:Everyone everyone knows obviously the taxicab fact. What's the taxi cab? Uh Robert De Niro? No, Dustin Hoffman. He almost got run over by the like that that taxicab scene where he almost gets run over was like real life. Like, oh, I haven't seen this happen.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I I don't know that. Um, I do know again that he uh, because I I saw an IMDB trivia sheet, so I did look at this one too. That he was afraid that people, because they mentioned the graduate. Yeah, that was uh what's his face's previous film? Dustin Hoffman. Dustin Hoffman's previous film. And so he's too afraid that the director wouldn't take him seriously, or the casting director wouldn't take him seriously. So he like staged himself as a hobo or or as a homeless person out on the street, um, outside where they were supposed to meet, and he kind of was just like panhandling and stuff. And the director shows up and he like waits a few minutes before he introduces himself just to show that he can play kind of that grungy looking character. Um, because that that is who he's supposed to play in the in the movie. Anyway, so he bonds at that point with Trevor Slattery, who's also there, Ben Kingsley. And later on we find out that Ben Kingsley was actually planted there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like he's every single time they meet in this episode, it's all been planned.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so what do you think the big deal is with that? Because at first I wouldn't have guessed that they would have the whoever's hired him would have decided to hire someone that famous to go tailing this no no-nothing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, and I I honestly I think that the ending of the episode really was my least favorite part of it because I was just totally chill with the fact that Trevor Slattery and Simon Williams were just going to be buddy buddy comics and that he was helping him and that the you know this TV show was going to end up being whatever it was. I felt like they just decided to add the very end on there to like show some stakes, and I was not a fan of it.
SPEAKER_00:Did you recognize the voice? Because it is someone that you would know as soon as I told you. No, I did not. I don't want to ruin it for you, but it's someone you've definitely seen in the Marvel universe, and it makes just a lot of sense, I guess, if they're really kind of looking at this from a government wants to control anybody with a superpower. The funny thing is that they all these articles have been mentioning the Doorman Clause. And later on you have an episode called Doorman, so I'm assuming they get more into that, but they they go by it really quickly. Simon is supposed to mark off in the contract that he does not have superpowers. Right. Because why do you think that they don't want superpowered people playing parts or roles? Is it just the fact that they don't want they will save some jobs for the rest of us, type of thing?
SPEAKER_01:I you know what I actually really didn't think about because when you work at something like the boys, they also make fun of Hollywood, right? They have the actual superheroes in that TV show playing themselves.
SPEAKER_00:The way they put it is that it's an insurance thing. It's like it's way too the amount of destruction that usually comes with bringing in a superhero. My question, I have a couple about that. A, did that apply for the blip? Because if you're having half the amount of people, you would think that they would have like opened the door, maybe saying, Okay, we'll we'll allow a few soups in here because we definitely need the staff. Like, would they have broken that ceiling? Yeah, I mean, maybe also Black Widow, Scarlet Johansson, like very pretty. Do you think that they she didn't have a superpower?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, yeah, but I think that if you're a master assassin, a master assassin doesn't allow to be on there. Yeah. She's not, she's she's an Avenger, but she's not a super well. You can say the same about Hawkeye, but I would still consider him to have a.
SPEAKER_00:Hawkeye, I looked it up. He does have superpowers. Like technically, he has like super accuracy range. I put them in the same category. You might, but uh, other people don't. Like she literally does not have power. She was just trained up for Mino. I could be Black Widow if I started training right now. No. Uh what's the opposite of a widow? Amando. Okay. Uh, yeah. So Wonder Man is based off this cheesy 80s sci-fi superhero flick. They're remaking it. Trevor Slattery says, Hey, that's what I'm working on right now. And of course, that gets the attention of Simon. He goes in for the audition, having gone to Janelle, his uh agent, right?
SPEAKER_01:Who was not going to give him the job, but then uh the second that she leaves, he goes to the computer, finds out where it is, and then calls on the phone and acts like her and acts like he's a last second audition. No, he's he's acting like one of her um like secretaries. I think he said, Yeah, the name was like Imani or something.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he's just making up uh a whole character for himself to try out for a different character. He gets to the audition, starts freaking out. He doesn't have a problem memorizing. Trevor Slattery helps him get the part.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, yeah, you need to mention that Trevor Slattery not only was there, but he was also making the room that he was auditioning for like crack up, even while the people that was there auditioning for the role was like the guy inside there is killing it.
SPEAKER_00:So whoever hired Trevor Slattery, we are to believe, knew that he would be able to ace any audition that he would go to, as well as still kind of keep this guy within his hemisphere. Right. If I'm being liberal, I would say maybe they just said keep an eye on this dude. And the fact that this Wonder Man opportunity came around just was spontaneously great. Yes, that it's all just luck, but it does seem way too convenient the fact that he is able to win them over and that his one bit of bit of advice, which is the equivalent of just calm down, take a breath.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And also just like don't think about it. Ends up working so well. Yeah, he's like, it's gonna shut down your frontal lobe. Unless the people that for Wonder Man are also working with the person that has hired. No, no, no.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's that's way too thought process. Yeah. The thing about his powers, Wonder Man's powers, is I think it's just like, again, ionic force field, he can cause earthquake for for the most part. What does that allow you to do? I mean, if you're fighting Thanos, I guess everything would have been a lot shakier.
SPEAKER_01:I'm assuming we're going to know more like as it goes on. I think it's just more a ride.
SPEAKER_00:Well, no, because like the least amount of superheroes show like I wouldn't be surprised if you don't see his powers at all. It's like a small villain superhero.
SPEAKER_01:So you think you think that scene where he's in his trailer is going to be the only scene that we see with him, his superpower where he's able to shake things? You think that's going to be it? Maybe.
SPEAKER_00:Who knows? I thought that the scene happened at the girlfriend's apartment. It's been a couple of days. Anyway, so yeah, the studio, the franchise, the boys, Barry. We've seen the meta critique of Hollywood before. Where does this fall on the list?
SPEAKER_01:I really enjoyed this episode. I thought that Simon was very likable, and the fact that he cares so much about what he's doing just adds to his character. I like the Mandarin. I like Ben Kingsley as a Mandarin. Honestly, ever since he's shown up in Shang-Chi again, I think I like how these episodes are also very, very short too. A little over 20 minutes, at least for the pilot.
SPEAKER_00:I think the most is like 35.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And the attention to detail, like I said, with the like FX channels and everything, and then the chemistry between the two Simon and Trevor is what this show is banking off of. Some romance. I wasn't that much a fan of the ending, and I know that you. Said that Kevin Fehey, uh, this was supposed to be the first of those shows, but it still feels like it's just in a line of like curb your enthusiasm episodes, extras, entourage. So, because of that, I'm going to give this a seven out of ten, but I can gladly say that I am interested in seeing where the rest of the show is going and we'll watch the rest of it.
SPEAKER_00:Star Wars, Game of Thrones, or Marvel? Which has the highest funny potential? Funny potential? Yeah. So Game of Thrones, we just talked about the Knight of Yeah, Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. Yes. And then Marvel, we have this.
SPEAKER_01:Star Wars, you have I'd actually surprisingly probably put Star Wars last, but put Game of Thrones second, and then maybe put Marvel first. Acolyte?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Acolyte wasn't like sort of.
SPEAKER_01:It's funny that it's I mean, Marvel at this point, I think like you can say maybe phase one wasn't that funny, but it's kind of always expected to be a comedy whenever you're supposed to see a TV show or movie, somewhat.
SPEAKER_00:I do agree with some of the critics that this is a different level, though, of comedy. Because like, yeah, all Marvel movies have Fat Thor or something like that, where it's like kind of a joke for everyone. But this one is like I tasteful. I don't know how to put it, but like it seems like a smarter type comedy, maybe. Um, Yahya, Abdul Mateen II, that's the guy who plays Simon. You recognized him from Aquaman, the villain in that. Uh he's played. Yes, and he came out famously saying that acting in big superhero flicks like Aquaman is clown work and that he does it for a paycheck, like George Clooney. One for him, one for himself. Or one, you know. Um, and and so now that he's playing this character, a lot of places were quick to point out like maybe he got the role because of like his critique of the industry and like they thinking that he would be able to take some of that reality uh mindset and put it into this guy. Do you like? I mean, he definitely doesn't have as much superpowers. What are the chances that like Wonder Man is a like part of Doomsday? Doomsday? Like it like if he's gonna show up or not? I know that spotlight the whole idea is that it's its own thing, right? But like, what are the chances that it he ends up leaking into in some way?
SPEAKER_01:I'm sure, you know what? I'm sure in the two films that they're going to have, he's going to be in at least one scene.
SPEAKER_00:Right, but what if he was like the most integral part? Like that's they need him. Why would they introduce him with a superpower unless that superpower wasn't necessary for like the end game? I don't know. Um, yeah, thanks for listening. We'll see you on the next episode. Hope you enjoyed this one. Bye. Bye.