Today's Episode
We watched it. Every episode covers the latest installment(s) of a different TV show.
Today's Episode
The Gray House (PILOT)
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Amazon Prime Video’s The Gray House is an American historical miniseries with a huge cast and a pilot that drops us into Richmond on July 4th, 1860. While jumping around several POVs throughout the ~hour-and-20-minute premiere, we start to see how the Van Lew family carefully sidesteps the most controversial politics in public while risking everything behind the scenes.
From alligators to fireworks to horse-jousting duels, there’s a lot to cover in our discussion. Colin Morgan is unrecognizable, and Mary-Louise Parker is once again protecting Mary Jane — just not in the same sense you probably think. Tune in to hear our favorite and least favorite moments. Welcome to Today’s Episode!
Welcome to today's episode, the podcast where we discuss the most recent installment of a different series every show. It is Friday, March 6th, National Oreo Cookie Day. When was the last time you had an Oreo cookie? Probably a couple days ago. Like, yeah. Awesome. So you still enjoy them? Yeah. I always think of them as a kid's dessert, which, like, yeah, but it does remind me of in the office, James Spader, when he took over as the boss and he was like kind of uh snooty, and yet he came out and he was like, I don't think they've ever perfected a cookie better than the Oreo.
SPEAKER_00Do you remember Oreo cakes? Yes, and I don't think fondly of them. They they yeah, they came out in like 2013 and then Oreos quickly discontinued them, but they were basically like, what if we made an Oreo even more soft and even more sugary?
SPEAKER_01If if you take any version of Oreos and you stick it into a blender, though, what color does it turn? Gray. Gray. Like the gray house. That is what we are talking about today. This is an American historical drama television miniseries. And that usually means one thing. It means Taylor Sheridan is on the payroll. But no, not this time. This show is produced by Kevin Costner, who is an alum of a Taylor Sheridan series. Not Landman, not uh 1923, probably his most famous.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Yellowstone.
SPEAKER_01Not 1883, but yes, Yellowstone. Uh, we talked about this in the Marshalls podcast, but uh he's he's a he's a Western dude, like you can tell. He really loves this type of stuff. He did Horizon, and uh he that's why he left Yellowstone was to do a different Western.
SPEAKER_00He even did Let Him Go, which was a Western movie, has that docuseries out right now, Kevin Costner's The West. Right.
SPEAKER_01And but so like he wasn't actually the reason, though, that I really wanted to do the Greyhouse, it was because of the rest of the ensemble cast. I mean, you have Mary Louise Parker, you have uh Keith David was supposed to be in the show, but he is credited. I was waiting for that. But it's a who's who of different people. And what is funny is aside from Mary Louise Parker, it seems like most of the main cast is British. And they're all doing Southern accents. And the thing about a Southern accent, an old-timey Southern English accent is uh or you know, American English accent, is that I can't tell whether it's good or not.
SPEAKER_00So, in my opinion, they're doing fantastic. Well, someone who isn't British is Morgan Freeman, who starts off the TV series. I knew that he was an executive producer, but I didn't actually think that we were going to hear him. Apparently, he does. It starts off like a Shawshang thing where he's doing the narration. It was a last-minute decision to just throw him in at the beginning of the series.
SPEAKER_01Or like a March of the Penguins situation where he's but it's he's he's discussing this because yeah, the Civil War is about to go down. It's July 4th of 1860. 1860, yeah. Uh Abraham Lincoln is president because all these states that are going to secede. And they were listing off all the all the South states, but Virginia is up in the air. It's like whether or not it's kind of in the middle there, and you've got some people believing one thing, and then you have others who are like gung-ho pro-slavery.
SPEAKER_00I know that South Carolina seceded. Uh, it was the first one to secede, and that was in December of 1860. So ultimately, if this is following history, Virginia, it's it's still gonna take a while before this.
SPEAKER_01And like with all the television series we've discussed, we have gone through like the historical events. 1883 was a little bit past that time. Death by Lightning was also a little bit past that that time. Um American Primeval was past that time. American primeval was a little bit earlier, but then also you do have Manhunt, which was following directly like a few years later. Um, and so we've we've circled that time in history, and I was expecting to see a lot or hear a lot more names that I recognized, but I didn't. Like I recognized John Wilkes Booth, Paul. Paul Revere, yeah, yeah, Jefferson Davis. Um, but like Wise and Sharon and Van Luz, who are their main characters, like those are just there's a billion names and a billion different people in this, and we're never gonna get it straight because we're literally doing the podcast having watched the first episode. And what's an interesting about that is it's not spoon feeding you, you know? Right. Like if this was a Netflix show or even a Taylor Sheridan one or a Kurt Sutter one, I feel like with the Abandons, I feel like they would have been prioritizing, drilling down on who every character is, what their opinions are. And outside of maybe the Van Nesses, the the mom and the daughter, I don't think we got like a full impression of depth of what people's politics were and where they're coming from. There's a lot of mercurial personalities at work. And it's it's just fun. The only thing I wish that Amazon Prime had absolutely kept, at least for Apple TV, is that stupid x-ray function. So I would be able to tell you who at any given moment was making the decisions that we're going to be talking about in the plot later on.
SPEAKER_00I agree. And I'm glad that they didn't do like just kind of the exposition overload that you were talking about. The people behind this are pretty acclaimed. You have Roland Jaffe, who directed all eight episodes of this. He's a Palm d'Or winner and also an Oscar nominated director. And he hasn't actually worked on anything since 2019. And they were able to get him for this on. Yeah. And then you have the same uh writers for all eight episodes, the three that worked on them. Daryl Fetty, John Sales, and Leslie Grief. Leslie Grief developed and produced what I deem the best show of 2022, The Offer. Right.
SPEAKER_01You're saying every single episode was the same writers. And the cool thing is like you can go back, because the first episode, a lot of it takes place during this gala that uh that the Van Nesses are are throwing. Sorry, I keep on saying, do I say Van Nesses? It's the Van Lou's, right? Yeah. Yeah. So the Van Lous are throwing, and everybody's conversation, I think, is really kind of uh appropriate to the time and setting, but it is so like you could be bored over it if you're not paying attention. But going back and re-listening, it's like there's a lot of indicators as to where people stand on certain on certain things concerning whether or not the Civil War was really started solely for slavery, also because like they said that the union didn't really care about the slaves, that they were really just interested in the fact that they can't grow crops and stuff. And so that they're like jealous of how rich the South is getting. But um, everybody knows that ultimately the issue, the main issue was the freedom of the slaves.
SPEAKER_00So who are the who are the villains? Because you said the van lady. Oh man, don't ask me that.
SPEAKER_01Like I I honestly, like obviously the racists are the villains. Right. Right. But who's who's the real racist? At the end of the episode, we we are introduced to sort of a deep throat figure who like lives in the shadows and is responsible for part of the underground railroad. He's like wearing a mask, right? Or something like that. Right, it is a he, so it's not like um uh but but the interesting thing about that is like the Van Lou's are kind of playing it uh both sides right now because they're in Virginia and they're supposed to be surrounded by a lot of people who are very pro-South. And so they are pretending to be pro-South and that they were punishing their slaves and such while at the same time facilitating that some like it being a safe haven. I think that the place like Church Hill or something has become known in the underground as a place where people can escape too, and that's really bad for their reputation. But at the same time, they don't really care too much because Elijah and Elizabeth are both they're they're on the good side, I guess.
SPEAKER_00And who do you follow more, Eliza or Elizabeth? Well, you saw the episode too.
SPEAKER_01Who how would you answer that?
SPEAKER_00I would say it's probably Elizabeth, because Eliza seemed like she was kind of doing stuff to help Elizabeth. Right.
SPEAKER_01So the in the first hour or like maybe 40 minutes, it's all taking place between like on July 4th, this big party that's being thrown at Churchill.
SPEAKER_00It reminded me of the Gilded Age with the way that people were dressed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they literally call it a gala or a gala. And and uh the weird thing about this show is that everyone's British. So it's like an internationally produced show that's all about American Civil War. Um, yeah, so I almost compare it to Spartacus, too, where the English is for the most part transitioned into an old-timey, you know, southern way of speak. Um, and then every once in a while they'll throw in a really well-known line from either like the Star Spangled Banner, or I think one guy quotes Paul Revere. Um, it he doesn't say the British are coming, but he says something along it. Like, I think it's uh no taxes without representation.
SPEAKER_00Waiting for Paul Revere to actually show up because he's credited as being in the show. Yeah. So when we see him, I that should be fine. Oh, that that is neat.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah. So there are three storylines to keep track of at the beginning. One is there's an escaped slave, uh, there's two of them actually that are being chased down by um this guy named Bully, which is aptly named. And then there's another girl named Mary Jane, who uh people are confusing as a slave, but actually she is a free person and she has papers, but they instantly get ripped up by this bully dude.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, real life African American who served the union. Well, no, because obviously the union hasn't existed yet. No, I understand, but I'm saying that's who she is in history. She's like a real person.
SPEAKER_01Right. But again, that would have been after the war, and this is nine months beforehand. July 4th, he rips up her paper. She has to sort of be sneaking around. Now it's weird because when she shows up, she's walking, and then she progressively gets more and more sick throughout the episode. I don't think she gets super no, actually, she does collapse into the corner. I take that completely back. So she gets help from the Baker man to uh bring her up to Churchill, where she says that they know who she is and that they will protect her. And sure enough, that is what happens.
SPEAKER_00Well, deal is struck, right? Because originally he's not going to do it. Well, originally he thinks, yeah, that she could just be bad trouble for him. But when she she shows up, she's like, no, the Van Luz will pay for me.
SPEAKER_01And she's like, either way, it turns out you're gonna get money from this. Either I'm telling the truth, and uh who who's the guy who is like Ishima or something like that? Ishman, I think. Ishman Isham Ishim Worthy. Ishim Worthy, okay. So like he is the main like downstairs dude at the at Churchill. So he is uh African American, and he's the one who has the connection to Van Van Luz, and he's able to like speak on her behalf. And so he tells the Baker man, yes, she that Mary Jane does belong there and that he'll pay whatever to to keep her there. At the same time, the runaway slaves that they're chasing, this bully guy in his group with of dogs, uh, one of them dies on the on the run, and then the other one makes their way through the forest, gets to Churchill, and this is just coincidental, and he asks for Ish Ishmael. I keep on thinking of like the shark guy from Josh.
SPEAKER_00It's Isham Worthy. It's like he's an uncle, he's the uncle Isham or something. Well, not only that, but Ben Bereen is actually the godfather of Usher and is the first cousin once removed of Shane Bereen. So so I find it funny that he has he has connections there. But yeah, no, he he is supposed to be um solid guy.
SPEAKER_01He literally looks up at the sky after the slave shows up and he's like, Are you testing me, God? Like, what the frick is happening right now? I have to take care of two situations and it's the middle of this party. So he hides the guy, but obviously the dogs find their way to the uh to church hill and that interrupts the party a little bit. Right. And that's where uh you find out that a bunch of stuff happens, but the Van Lou's come in, the matriarch and also the uh the daughter, and they try to prevent them from checking everywhere. Right. And right when it seems like they're gonna be caught, that's when Mary Jane pretends to have picked up one of the slaves' boots, which explains why the dogs were leading them there. And then she gets slapped for that, and she slaps back, she gets arrested. That was, I think out of all like the shocking stuff that happened in that episode, that was probably the most where I was like, oh, whoa, that's I think that's the scene where like in a lot of TV shows, people would or that the it would be presented in a way where people would then say, Oh, that's woke. You know? Yeah. Where like this is the scene where I just it is alternative history where they changed something, but it did not feel that way. It felt like this is a very credible thing that could have happened because the they don't just like let her go from that. In fact, the Van Lou's instantly pretend that they're gonna punish her and then force her arrest so that she's not hung right then and there or hanged right then and there. So I thought that was pretty good. And it ended up closing out the evening. Now, what we're we haven't talked about is during the gala, everybody's rubbing shoulders, everybody's talking about the tension between the political tension between what's going on with the South and the and the North and who's getting on who's uh uh like who's pissing off who. How did you feel about the politics conversation? Because obviously, there was so much going on I couldn't keep track. Okay. I don't know where every ever everybody's political identity was happening. But at the same time, you also have this guy who's showing up who's supposed to be the love interest to the uh the daughter whose whose name is Elizabeth, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you're talking about Hampton Arsenal, right?
SPEAKER_01And it took me an hour into the the show to realize it's one of my favorite British actors, Colin Morgan, right? Yeah, humans from he from literally uh Merlin. I mean, he's I I understood.
SPEAKER_00I understood why you had trouble recognizing him. He looks not only so much older, but yeah, different hair. I think he even has like a mustache, right? He had an excuse of a mustache.
SPEAKER_01It wasn't a full-blown mustache like some of the other characters there.
SPEAKER_00Not like John Wilkes Booth's mustache. But it's funny because Elizabeth Van Loo, who is played by Daisy Head, her father was one of the main characters, Other Pendragon in Merlin. So they both know each other, but from Which Pendragon? Other Pendragon? U-T-H-E-R. Uther? Uther.
SPEAKER_01The dad? Yeah. Yeah, Uther Pendragon, Arthur Pendragon's dad, the guy from um uh Buffy? Yes, you're saying Vampire Slide.
SPEAKER_00And you're saying he's the dad of He's the dad of Daisy Head in real life, who plays Elizabeth Van Loo in this show.
SPEAKER_01That makes her even more British, which again is so weird because you're watching them present such an American, like when America split. Maybe that's why they're doing it. Is they're like, see, you guys thought you could survive without us, and you guys went straight to war. We're gonna just rub your noses into it. No, the show's interesting because it's supposed to be very historically accurate, or is it is it? That's my main question.
SPEAKER_00Like the people, the people are real. Like again, Elizabeth Hanlu. Oh, okay. No, she was a real abolitionist in Richmond and she was born 1818. But there's things that when I was like looking to see how authentic it was that are have obviously been like a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01If this was just based on like a book, which I don't think it was, it wasn't, then I'm sure I would be nitpicking like why characters were doing what in what circumstance. But because it's not, and I'm just enjoying like the whole ambiance and vibe of the whole story, like I was okay with everything that I saw. Um it so where are we with the story? The guy, yeah, Archibald or whatever his name. What is his name? Hampton Arsenal. Arsenal. Arsenal? Yeah. So Hampton, Hampton, he shows up with an alligator, and the alligator's name is Antoine.
SPEAKER_00My favorite part about the whole episode.
SPEAKER_01He lives in Louisiana, so he thinks, in order to impress this girl, how much better than to bring her an alligator? And she does seem to enjoy it. She gives him a kiss afterwards. Yeah. And so they seem like they're going to be a couple. However, he also gets a little delayed because what happens is that two people start picking a fight with each other at the party, outside of the whole runaway drama. And those two people, I believe, are Obi-Wise, who's connected to the governor, not Obi-Wan. And then also Sherrod Clemens, who is a senator or something. And so they just do agree to a duel, but then Elizabeth steps in and is like, aren't we all just Americans fighting under, or not fighting, but like living under the American flag for our freedom? And why should we be pushing ourselves towards this violence?
SPEAKER_00This part felt just the most like, let's have a B story for like no reason because it didn't even like, yeah, really get resolved. It more just kind of- I think it's all set up.
SPEAKER_01So, like, that's when we have Hampton, he agrees to be the second, and instantly, like for 40 minutes, we're watching the party, the July 4th celebration. We see fireworks and we see dancing and we see escape slaves running through the dark forest, and we see uh a Mary Jane getting into uh uh trouble when she tries to save the slave and getting arrested. And you think, well, this whole episode is going to be following this one night for some particular purpose. But no, as soon as the party lets out, it becomes obvious that they just jump straight to the duel the next day in the morning. In the morning, on horses. Unlike any duel that I've seen recently because I watch a lot of duels. That's my uh whenever I see a duel presented on TV, it's literally just walk 10 paces, turn around and shoot. Right. I think John Wick, I think of the movie The Duel, which came out in like 2020. But they're jousting as if they're on the in the Knight's Kingdom.
SPEAKER_00I agree. It was the it was the strangest thing because they're like running on horses towards each other.
SPEAKER_01And the I guess the pistols they're using are so inaccurate that like this is commonly done. And it's like if you miss on the horse, then you guys can just call it square and you're both men, and that's it. So that's what happens, is they both miss. And then the other guy's like, I'm not, I'm not giving up on this. Let's go again. Right. And so that's what they do. And one guy gets shot, I think the Sherid guy gets shot in the leg, which I think is what is pr like setting up why Jefferson Davis at the end of the episode gets that telegram or whatever, and is is then saying, like, we're going to war, or you know, the equivalent of like get ready because we're not ready, but we're we're going to do this.
SPEAKER_00So you say that's probably the impact, kind of the president had to be.
SPEAKER_01We sort of know that because that's what's baking. Uh it seemed like Elizabeth had stopped the duel at first. And the fact that Hampton contributed to it comes along later because Elizabeth and Hampton meet up in a beautiful setting.
SPEAKER_00That was that was gorgeous. Everywhere. The scene, I mean, like it's it looked like something out of Spongebob, the flowers, frolicking field, but I was like, whoa, that is a great one.
SPEAKER_01They do not throw picnics like that anymore. Anyways, I've seen that sort of like in Pachinko, and I think in like Star Wars, where Anakin and and what's her face was like hanging out in the room. It's like a sci-fi place. I was like, this is great. It's it's good old Virginia, and so she starts giving him a little bit of like pushback on, hey, why are you even like doing the it's not it's not manly to to kill each other? And then he's like, no, but it is, and she's like, All right. And they don't have sex, they start by kissing, and then you're like, okay, this is leading to one of those. So it kept on defying my expectations. It wasn't spoon feeding, it wasn't doing the normal, like with the Western stuff that you just have these super cliche characters. There are very racist people, and then there are those fighting for the good fight, you know. But uh overall, like they went through it at a at a good enough pace where I was just kind of trying to keep up. Um, so at the end there, Elizabeth returns home. We haven't really talked about her in-law, the the Lorette lady. Lorette, yeah, Van Lou. She's married to, I think, her brother, Elizabeth's brother, John Van Loo Jr., I think. Like demeaning him and trying to sleep around and and telling him that he sucks, you know.
SPEAKER_00She's also very racist herself, so I don't know why she was his pick. I can't see, I can't see her making it out of this series. She reminds me of like the evil aunt from like 1883 in the first episode. Right.
SPEAKER_01If this was a a simpler show that wasn't based on reality, she would be the one to have the full turn by season six. Yeah. And she would be the one fighting again. It's like, look how much you change. Good for you. Um, yeah, so that's when we see that Elizabeth, even though her mom is really, really, I think, pro, like not pro-slavery, but pro helping the slaves under the table, being part of the underground, um, and doesn't want the secret coming out that that's what they're doing. Uh, she's not as part of the underground as Elizabeth is because she meets up with a mysterious figure, deep throat figure back in the day, who does admit that like he's like, I will show myself to you and so that you know who I am. And she's like, it's better you don't. And um, I think he's gonna be like the love interest too. I don't think he's Hampton, but I think he's going to be like a someone else. A love triangle. Maybe it it would be weird if they introduced Hampton to be her, they seem so close. They seem like outlander bound right now. And I I don't know if that relationship's gonna work. It feels like he's gonna betray her in some way. Uh, so she meets up with him and she's like, I'm tired of doing this. It's putting my family at risk. So we're gonna stop doing that. And then we get a scene, I think, where back in in the town, the regular town, there's a couple ones that we have to discuss. One is they they do bail Mary Jane out. And and because they're such a famous household and they were throwing this big party, the constable in charge was actually at the party and he's like, I'm so sorry you went through this. We're gonna waive the fee. You take her home and punish her as you will. And then also there's a scene in town where the baker guy who we saw help Mary Jane, right, who blocked the view of the guard. He signed us kind of similar to the artful dodger and Oliver Twist and all that. He is taken by an urchin. They they work out a scam and they steal his wallet. And at the same time, we learn that that urchin is actually a lady. Uh, she's like a girl, and she's taken in by this other lady who may be a prostitute or just like work at that hotel. It, but she does make that like sign about like, don't go in if there's a uh if there's a sock on the door.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, if there's a sock on the door, like I think she said, yeah. But the the the stranger part about it was just how open she was to help the girl.
SPEAKER_01Well, it wasn't the fact that she just like, yeah, she's a good person. That was her saving the cat. But then she went downstairs and she met one of the other senators or whatever, right? Another politician, and she's kind of like seducing him. And so, whatever all these different alliances are going to mean later on, I think it's gonna lead to something fruitful. But for now, it's just kind of like, okay, there's a new character here. I guess the weakest part of the show is that we knew everybody else. We, by the end of the episode, I feel like I know who Eliza, Eli Elizabeth, and Mary Jane are, but I'm not so sure about Clara or this other. This other kid.
SPEAKER_00I just like after a certain while it was just like, okay, I'm I'm just gonna watch the episode because I cannot keep track of all the characters. So it's kind of amazing to me that you were able to because of just how many there were.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they we could talk about any specific like 10-minute section of this thing for a really long time, but we're trying to give like an overall impression of the show. I think it's one of those ones where I will need a little bit of a break to before I tune back in. You know, there's a lot of content, and I feel like it may be too um, there might be too much information flowing past at any one given time. But I did enjoy it and I think there was a lot of effort that went into it. And so I I will give it like an eight out of 10. I do think it's a really it was a really solid pilot.
SPEAKER_00I think, yeah, I would give it probably a seven out of ten, and it's gotten pretty good reviews as a 7.6 on IMDB, 60% on Ron Tomatoes, Collider, uh said it was a brutal, unrelenting exploration of lies of histories, forgotten heroes. I'll just wrap up by talking about the other two writers here because you would maybe think that they would know how to write old-timey stuff. But John Sayles wrote the piranha, the original piranha film in 1978. Rowan directed. The alligator makes sense now. Wrote and directed eight men out, and also wrote the Spider-Way Chronicles movie in 2008, and then Daryl Fetty started as an actor showing up in things like Happy Days, Starskin Hutch, one day at a time before transitioning into being a writer in the 90s. So that kind of touches up on all three for them. Did you um have a favorite character? Probably Colin Morgan, but it's just because I like Colin Morgan so much. So Hampton. I I guess Elizabeth is like the main main character.
SPEAKER_01There was a part during the duel where it turned into like metal guitars. Yeah. So it was weird because like the majority of the time, even with the music and the music box and stuff, it was violins and it was very date dated to that time. And I thought that that's what they were going to stick to. And then that one scene happens, and it it was it was just so weird to have that to put in there.
SPEAKER_00Just yeah, you people who are going to watch the series should probably know that like they are going to have a lot more of that killer mic is a very good thing. So it's only like Dickie Dickinson a little bit.
SPEAKER_01And like again, uh the young Dodger or whatever, the Arful Dodger.
SPEAKER_00Willie Nelson, John Bon Joby, like Willie. They're also doing it. Like it's it's just it's it's Shania Twain. Like they get.
SPEAKER_01You can tell me Willie Nelson shows up, and there's like a young Willie Nelson because he was alive back then. I the John Wilkes booth thing also is interesting to me because we've done so many. Like, I know his brother was a famous actor. They they made a comment that his dad was really famous there. Um, and so seeing him try to flirt with the Van Lou lady um and then be called out for it. I found it so weird that the husband comes over, stops that from happening, and then the wife gets mad at the husband.
SPEAKER_00It was like, why did you stop me from sleeping around behind your back? Something that I did not mention is actually this was shot in 2023. Wow. And it's taken some time. I think it took like till September 2025 before Amazon Prime actually got the distribution right now.
SPEAKER_01It took a while for Morgan Freeman to add that like extra minute commentary at the very beginning.
SPEAKER_00That's not the only time you hear him in the series.
SPEAKER_01I'll say that much. I'm glad about that. I hope he ends the series too. And and it's like uh it I hope it ends a lot like Shaw Shank. Just on a beach somewhere, yeah, with him like catching up with uh Elizabeth and Eliza and stuff. Yeah. Um, would you compare it to would you compare it to like Dejengo or anything? No, because it's not as like uh dark as that. Yeah, I would say maybe the house being as big as it is and like the the southern ideal of like, oh, we're just gonna have a bunch of people working for or you know, being slaves for our area and we're just gonna disregard them. That was certainly the sentiment of a lot of people. While at the same time, they're not saying that everybody in the South believed the same thing.
SPEAKER_00Right. No. So that's cool. And you can definitely get those different perspectives and things like manhunt and stuff like that. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for listening to the pod. We'll see you on the next one. Bye. Bye.