The idea for this podcast came about after the murder of George Floyd on May 25th. Right after that, many in the therapy community were rushing to put out anti racist statements, posts, pictures and comments. Somehow that felt shallow, superficial and ineffective and really did nothing for me personally to gain insight into understanding racism in this country. When Tomeico asked me to do a podcast with her on race relations in health care so that we could share our perspectives, I instantly felt that this could be more meaningful than any post I could craft. Our hope is that sharing our conversation will serve as a catalyst for many others in the therapy community to start open and honest dialogues of their own with colleagues, coworkers, friends and family.