#138 - Unconventional Pathways to Stardom: A Deep Dive with Cas Haley

Ever thought about the transformative power of music and how it connects us all? Or pondered over the courage it takes to follow your dreams, especially when they are unconventional? Join me, as I have a heart-to-heart conversation with the phenomenal Cass Haley, a singer-songwriter, who has carved out a unique niche within the music industry. We journey through his life, beginning with his unconventional upbringing in Paris, Texas, and how it shaped him into the artist he is today.

Cas opens up about the challenges he faced, the risks he took, and the sheer determination it took to hold onto his dreams. We talk about his remarkable journey on America’s Got Talent, where he made it to the top four, and how it opened up subsequent opportunities. Cas shares candid insights about the music industry, the importance of maintaining control over his music career, and the dangers of identifying too strongly with his work.

In our conversation, we also delve into his upcoming album project and about the power of creating content in today’s digital world. We reflect on the importance of a fluid identity in a high-stakes industry like music and how content creation is probably the most powerful tool for a musician in this day and age. Listen in as we navigate the complex landscape of creativity, identity, and music with Cas Haley. This conversation is not just for music enthusiasts but for anyone who wants to understand the nuances of following your passion and making it your career.

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Transcript

Cass Haley's Musical Journey and Roots

Speaker 1 1:00

Hey , what's going on , guys ? I got a special guest here today . We have Cass Haley . He's a talented singer-songwriter with a soulful voice and a gift for creating music that combines different genres and influences . I also want to note that I saw Cass about two years ago now , and when I went in I didn't even know who Cass was . I was like who is this ? What's going on ? It was in Rock Brothers Tampa and it was an incredible experience . It was different than any other performance I've ever seen , and that's why I really wanted to have Cass on . So , Cass , how are you doing today ?

Speaker 2 1:34

Doing good man . Thanks for the intro , I appreciate it .

Speaker 1 1:37

Absolutely so . Where did your journey start ?

Speaker 2 1:41

You know . So I was from Paris , texas , raised here , and I still live here . My parents are both musicians . They were like kind of teenagers of the 60s and my dad had been , you know , my entire life . My dad was always sort of pursuing a side hustle with music . He wanted to make it his normal thing . But just how life goes , he had five kids so he also had a construction business and poured concrete . So growing up , man , it was music and construction for me , learning the guitar , learning and performing with my parents and also learning how to dig a hole in the ground and pour some concrete , and so that's my roots . You know , very country .

Speaker 2 2:33

We lived on a little backwards kind of farm about 10 , 15 miles outside of town and you know my parents were , like I said , they were kind of they were teenagers of the late 60s and really in that hippy vibe . So they had built this barn where they would have these kind of little festival kind of quarterly parties and it had a full stage and a full PA and that's why I learned how to play music was on a stage my entire life . I had a stage there that you know was separated from our little , you know one bedroom A-frame and it was pretty . It was pretty wild . My parents prioritized things very differently , like we didn't have running water , we had a cistern with an outdoor shower and an outhouse for a long time , but yet we had a barn with a stage and a PA and this like they prioritize this kind of space , which was really cool and really interesting .

Speaker 1 3:37

So you know , that's my roots man country , that yeah , that gives you a fascinating perspective though , because from most people growing up , it's who'd you surround yourself with , who affected you , who brought you up , and most of the time it's like , hey , dad and mom had to go to work , maybe mom would stay at home , went to school , did our thing . We're talking about outhouses here . We got our own studio , we got our own presentation . It's incredible . Yeah , they were really they were really .

Speaker 2 4:08

They were interesting Like . They were definitely like on the fringe , you know , like they were nice folks but they weren't really a part of your normal kind of life , you know they didn't . They always instilled in me of like , hey , you know , be who you are , you can . They never once ever questioned you know my pursuit in music or arts or anything . They were like if you can't pay your bills , okay , it's not the end of the world , it's okay , you're gonna be , you're gonna be okay , you know .

Speaker 2 4:43

So that like that was that gave me , like you know , the courage and kind of the mindset going into this just to be brave enough , you know , to not have all these kind of pressures and stress , and I really give credit to them for instilling that in me , even though there is some , like you know they were , there is some things that in my life it was pretty .

Speaker 2 5:09

There was some irresponsible kind of things with that too . You know what I mean , where it was like I raised my kids somewhat similar but a little bit different of like the best of the worlds . Like you know , it's great to take care of these relationships and you do want to have a nice place to live and AC and all that stuff . But you know it really gave me the mindset to pursue this , especially in the first like 10 , 15 years of me doing this , because it's brutal , you know . It's the whole world's telling you you can't do it . So I give it to them and forgiven me that spirit of like it's no big deal . What's important is that you're following your dreams and your bliss and that's gonna lead you to you finding yourself .

Speaker 1 5:55

Yeah , that's so important Cause anyone who's listening right now parents , children , anybody cause the important thing is to realize that kids here know so often , to the point where it goes what can I do , what am I allowed to do ? And your parents were the complete opposite . Where it's Cass ?

Speaker 2 6:14

do your thing ? Yeah , and it they were . I always say that they were like the , the kings of natural consequence , where they were like , even in regards to like partying . I mean , like I said , they were from the sixties . They definitely were like weekend warriors , when they would go out and play , you know , they would drink and my dad always smoked marijuana and with me , like , they educated me on all of these substances and behaviors and they said , look , you're gonna get the chance to probably do everything and anything . And they , they gave me two rules . They said , cass , you can try , you can try whatever you want . These are the . These are the things that are super . I know it's crazy , right , they're like you can try whatever you want , but these are the things that are super dangerous .

Speaker 2 7:06

And these are the differences don't get in a car with on anything or with anybody that's been on anything and don't , you know , don't , don't drive , you don't drive , don't get into a car and you're probably gonna be okay and call us at any time .

Speaker 2 7:25

So there was always this open dialogue with them and I had my experiences , definitely , you know , from teenage through my mid twenties , I was pretty much experimenting and trying anything and everything , but I always had that security with them and I tried to abide by their rules of like not getting into vehicles , and so it's like , it's pretty wild man , you know , it's a and that created in me also too , of like , like , a little bit of balance within myself of like , oh , this is screwed up , like this is , I don't need to do this or be around these kinds of people Like . I always had that kind of compass and sense and I think that came from them too of being open with me about all this stuff , versus it being this thing that I had to hide and all that stuff that a lot of kids go through , you know .

Speaker 1 8:17

Well , that's super healthy , Cause it's , instead of it being a taboo activity . It's like , hey , do your thing , but please do not do this , Cause we've seen a lot of bad things happen here . And then you know that's the real rule . You know it's the real rule .

Speaker 2 8:32

Cause . Think about it . I mean it's like , besides , for some kid getting addicted to some drug , the thing that really you know , and that's devastating . But the two things that happens is either getting a car wreck and die or kill somebody or they get arrested . And where do they get arrested ? They get arrested in a car .

Speaker 1 8:51

You know that usually you know what I mean they're mobile . They're mobile , they're moving .

Speaker 2 8:56

Yeah , yeah . So they were , they were wild man , they really . They gave me lots of , lots of freedom to find myself .

Speaker 1 9:05

So when did you realize you were going down this singer songwriter path ? When was that for you ? Obviously , you had experiences younger on , but what was it that allowed you to go ? This is the path for me .

Speaker 2 9:19

You know , man , for me it happened really early . I mean , I fell madly in love with music , probably around the age of 12 or 13 . And I really didn't think about anything else , I really didn't . I mean , it was like all music I started . I started playing music in a way where , you know , I didn't take lessons .

Speaker 2 9:47

My dad taught me a few things , but I started like creating . I started just like making things up , making songs up from the beginning , and I fell in love with that kind of action of not just like imitating somebody , but like my own voice within it and my own emotions , and it became a way for me to understand my own emotions and have that compass of like . Why am I attracted to a certain melody ? What about that melody is making me feel a certain way , where I'm gravitating towards it , and it became , it became me how I you know how I developed emotional intelligence and what was going on inside of me was through this music . And so probably , you know , probably 13 or 14 years old , I was like sold , like I never thought about doing yells .

Speaker 1 10:47

That's incredible

The Power of Music and Authenticity

Speaker 1 10:48

. That music was your , basically your teacher , and how you connected with the different tones and the melodies , and that's really interesting because I honestly , it's a completely different perspective for me , which is what I appreciate , because listening to Cass's music if anyone's here when you listen to Cass's music , it's unique , it is different . Like I was playing it for someone yesterday and they're like is it a girl , is it a boy ? I'm like , well , there's like multiple singers , there's stuff going on , his daughter's singing , stuff's happening , and they're like he's like oh , wow , that's . He's like that's a tune and it's interesting stuff because it is very unique . And then watching you perform live is even more of a treat because it's so different .

Speaker 2 11:35

Right on , man . Well , thank you so much . Yeah , it's a music's amazing man , I think , even though you know , a lot of people don't realize that , maybe not even question some of the things that I'm talking about with like why do you like a song ? What about a song ? What is that ? What do you like ? I mean , you know you like it , but why do you like it ? Well , there's something inside of you , there's an emotion that it's bringing out that you like . You know what I mean . That's why you like a song , because it makes you feel a certain way . You know what I mean . I've always been so amazed and mesmerized and about that aspect of it , about like why do you like this ? What about this ? What about the emotion ? What is that ? What is that bringing up inside of yourself ? You know where that whole kind of thing . It's like the language of the spirit . You know what I mean .

Speaker 1 12:32

I was actually just thinking about that because I was listening to something and they were talking about how these people were declared fear of the brain dead and like have Alzheimer's and like really are struggling and they would play the music from their childhood and their brainwaves would start activating again and they're like that's impossible . But music is the last thing to go , because you're right , because it is so deep in the connection and the emotions that we create . So once you realize this , what's the path ? Then You're 13 , 14, . What's the path ? You go on to make this happen .

Speaker 2 13:07

You know it was I mean probably from the age of 13 till I was , you know , 16 or 17, . It was just creating and getting bands together and playing with different groups of guys and trying to get a band together . You know what I mean and it's like I remember . You know , another really interesting aspect of it is like for a long time , probably up till I was like probably for a couple of years , I didn't tell anybody , like as far as the kids I was going to school with that I played music . It wasn't something that I showcased or talked about and you know it was funny . I really didn't have I because I had such a different life with my parents . It's like we weren't a part of a church , we weren't really that much of a part of the community , because we live in a really , like you know , kind of we live in the Bible Belt and my parents weren't religious .

Speaker 2 14:12

So a lot of the community in the area that we lived was through church and stuff like that and like your parents' relationships , and since my parents were kind of on the fringe , I didn't have a lot of that , so I didn't have a lot of friends .

Speaker 2 14:26

So after you know , it was like I think it was seventh grade I decided to play in the talent show and what happened then , just like totally you know , kind of blew . It took my love for music and it sort of showed me the power to connect people because , like , yeah , here I was , this kid , I didn't have a lot of friends , I was pretty talkative kid , but still I didn't have that connection . And the minute I played at that talent show was like my whole world of relationships opened up , where people , people were curious about me , people were , you know , wanted to be my friend , girls were interested , you know all of these things and it's just it's like it's so powerful , you know , and you definitely , like you know , I definitely was just refired up that hey , man , oh yeah , this music thing is gonna take me places and connect me with people and it's pretty amazing , you know , it's pretty amazing what music can do .

Speaker 1 15:36

I love how and the coolest part is that you were not the most accepted . You were struggling with friends and you go up on stage and it changes everything . But when I think about it , it probably wasn't your first time on stage . You've been doing the barred thing for years now .

Speaker 2 15:54

Yeah , I'd even performed with my parents at bars , you know what I mean . So , like I was , yeah , I knew how to perform and I wasn't afraid and I was very . I've always been confident and self-directed and I always knew who I was because my parents allowed me to be who I was , you know . So , like that was , it was pretty cool and I think that that very thing more than like the music being any good , I think kids just seeing other kids be confident in who they are and not cocky but confident of just like being true and authentic , is what kind of connects people , you know , versus and that's rare when you're an adult Like it's hard to find authentic people today .

Speaker 1 16:43

It's hard to find authentic people in high school , let alone middle school , because everyone's always trying to fit in . Yeah , and I know it's hard for you to stand out like that , but that's what your specialty and that's what your superpower and that's what allows you to create this incredible unit .

Speaker 2 16:59

Yeah , Just not be afraid and create and just be yourself . And you know I mean it's much less stressful , you know , because I've had moments and I'm still a human being and I'm insecure and all that , and I want to be accepted by everybody and just like , just like all of us . You know what I mean . But , man , that's such a stressful kind of position in life to be and to be , you know , trying to make everybody happy or to make everybody like you , versus just putting yourself out there and the ones that do will and the ones that won't will go a different direction , you know .

Speaker 1 17:40

Yeah , I love that and I think it's so powerful because there's so many of us who are really hiding , we're not being our true , authentic selves , and that's why I really wanted to have you on , because I've seen you , you're you like . You live out in the country , you're still living that same life . So what was it for you ? That ? So you get the motivation in seventh grade and then what allows you to like ? What's the next steps ? Where do we go next ?

Speaker 2 18:04

So , you know , I was in various bands and , up till the age of like I was 18 years old , living , I met my wife . I was 18 . She was 17 years old . So we actually at this point I'd moved out of the house , like I moved out of my my parents house when I was like 17 . They were going to take a job in some other state with construction work .

Speaker 2 18:33

I didn't want to go and so I kind of I moved in with my sister and living on living on my own and I met my wife , my girlfriend Cassie , and we got a place together and I'd already retired from high school early because I knew that I was like dude , like high school for me was like it was like all of these people , these teachers that basically were doing the things that my parents didn't do . They were telling me I had to be a certain way . They were telling me that I couldn't have my hair dyed pink . They were telling me that I couldn't have my nose pierced , my eyebrow pierced , my , you know , a Mohawk , like all of these creative expressive feelings where I was searching for myself . There was so much pressure from society of like no , you can't do that , you've got to fit into this box . So I

Music Career Challenges

Speaker 2 19:26

checked that out .

Speaker 2 19:26

I checked out of high school at the end of my sophomore year , went , went to the local college , got my GED and started taking some classes there . And then I met my wife and you know we lived in Paris . We lived together for about a year and I was trying to pursue it from Paris , texas , and you know it wasn't going anywhere . There's only so many places to play .

Speaker 2 19:50

So I decided to make the move to Dallas , which is about two hours away and it's the biggest city , that's closest to us . And so we made the move and I ended up getting a band together in Dallas and we started grinding in Dallas , playing every place that we could play , and that was like that was kind of how I kind of developed , you know a professional career is . Once I moved to Dallas I was blessed with all these opportunities to start playing with these bigger bands . You know we my band was called Woodbelly and we were a trio and we kind of did like an art rock , reggae mix of all sort of you know what I do now mixing styles .

Speaker 2 20:36

It was definitely like more youthful and energetic and more punk rock influenced and rock and roll mixed with all kinds of different influences . But we got the opportunity to , you know , go on the road and we were . You know , we were playing with bands like Blues Traveler , we were playing with bands like Yellow Card and Something Corporate , and so we started getting these opportunities just from the buzz that was happening in Dallas and then so , and that lasted for about that was about six , six years or so of grinding in Dallas .

Speaker 1 21:19

And what was your ? What was the thought process going on when you were like we got to get to a bigger city , we got to get to bigger markets , like as you were making that jump , and then , obviously , as you started doing well in Dallas , you started spreading out even further , going on tour and all . What was that experience like for you ? Was that just music , music , music ? Or was it you and Kat Like , how was that work ?

Speaker 2 21:39

Yeah , you know , the initial move to Dallas was really hard for my wife because she was raised very differently . You know , like that first , you know six , seven years of our relationship . You know she was 17 , I was 18 , and she came from a world where you , you know , you went to college .

Speaker 1 22:00

Follow the rules , yeah .

Speaker 2 22:01

You follow the rules and you get you a nice brick house and a bunch of debt and you make a good life for yourself . That fits into this box , you know , and that's where she came from . You know what I mean and I understand that . So that initial move , you know , she didn't know if she was going to go and I said , look , I'm going , I'm going to go get a , I'm going to go figure it out , get us an apartment and if you want to come , you can come . So when I left , I didn't know if she was going to actually come to Dallas and in a couple of weeks she got the courage up and said , okay , I'm going . And then she moved and we got an apartment . It was .

Speaker 2 22:42

The funny thing is we really couldn't afford the apartment and so we had to get a bunch of roommates . So we had one , two , three , four , five , six . We had six people in a two bedroom , you know , maybe , maybe 800 square foot apartment . And it was me , the drummer that I was playing with my buddy . That was like acting as our manager , and then this guy who was a comedian and the guy who was managing managing him who also was from Paris .

Speaker 2 23:16

You know everybody that was in the apartment was from Paris and we just kind of got together and got this you know apartment sort of in the the sketchy part of the neighborhood in Arlington , texas and and we did that and we made that work , for you know , that was about five years . We lived in that apartment as we were grinding and playing every bar and every show that we could in Dallas , but it was . It was a big jump , especially for my wife and for me , because I was leaving . I was willing to leave the love of my life behind for this first love , which was music , and me pursuing this career and just praying that my leap of faith and my courage and confidence would inspire her to say , okay , let's do it .

Speaker 1 24:02

That's incredible . I love the trust that she had to come with you and you had the belief of I'm going . It's funny because I had a very similar thing happen to me where it was COVID 2020 , I'm like I'm giving up my lease in Tampa , let me go travel to . I'm going to go to Colorado because I never been . I don't know if I love Tampa . I just like I've known Tampa but I got to try out other places .

Speaker 1 24:28

So I decided I'm going to go and I'm dating this girl for like two months and she's like we should go on a trip and I'm like , well , I'm actually going , like I'm going away and I'm like you should come . And she's like I don't know , I don't know . She's back and forth . Yes , I'm like I'm going to go to the very end of life . I'll get you a flight wherever . If you want to fly home , like , just come with me and if you don't like it , I'll get your flight home . And Shands of coming . We traveled around for like eight months , end up getting a condo in Tampa at the end of the trip and your concert was the first one we went to . But it was this cool experience of like this person trusts me enough to come with me . Like the bond you have there is just , oh , it's out of this world .

Speaker 2 25:13

You know that yeah , no , it's , it's awesome in and it's uh , it's so healthy , you know , to get out , to travel and to get out of your normal , your normal zone , where you know everything and you know it's like you get all those hardwired neural networks of the same old , same old , and it's amazing how many people don't get the opportunity or don't , you know , have the courage to go out and just experience life and try different things and see different cities . And you know it's , I think a good majority of the population of the United States , you know , is kind of walked into that kind of mind frame where you know it's wild people in Paris , never leaving Paris , they're entire , their entire life , you know what's that ?

Speaker 2 26:02

Totally that's . That's sort of what I was like when we first went . You know me , I I had a lot of travel as a child , but Cassie really didn't . She had been to Dallas a few times for whether it was a George Strait concert or something , but yeah , very , very exotic , just two hours down the road , you know .

Speaker 2 26:19

And it is very different . So it's , uh , I , I love it that my kiddos , you know , have pretty much traveled over the world and they're , you know , 13 and 17 years old and they've seen every state and you know Countries and stuff like that .

Speaker 1 26:33

So it's incredible . So you you're in Dallas six years , then what ends up happening ?

Speaker 2 26:42

So okay , so I get , I'm in Dallas pursuing the band thing with Woodbelly and we're getting some opportunities . We had been on some tours and it still was really hard . My wife was working as a nanny for a family that had triplets and she's working , like you know , four days a week , 12 hours a day . There's still a lot of conflict between me and my wife , with me pursuing this music thing , because she's at work all day and I'm at home and then I'm , you know , gigging , maybe Wednesday through Saturday or something like that , but she kind of , and I'm still kind of partying at the same time . So she's seeing that , she's seeing .

Speaker 1 27:17

You're going because you're still youthful , you that's basically your college time and like yeah , yeah , totally and and we're in .

Speaker 2 27:24

We're in deep , ellen , you know , with all the rock clubs and it's like stuck in that kind of mind frame of Rock and roll and party in and stuff , and so she's seeing that which was like a side effect of the pursuit of the music career course and so there was a lot .

Speaker 2 27:40

There was a lot of Conflict in those first few years and Dallas of , like cash , you need to get a real job , still . Still , she's kind of hinting it like maybe you should think about something else . Like this might not work out , and you know my in-laws were of the same mind , like you know this course you know how's it gonna take you crazy .

Speaker 2 28:00

Yeah , yeah , what is he doing ? So and then I got my wife pregnant , so we and she was my girlfriend at the time , we weren't married yet and so we decided to get married and while she was pregnant and I was , you know , I'd never been really into the establishment of like marriage or course .

Speaker 2 28:22

I wouldn't religious . I was like I'm , I'm your soul partner . I feel connected to you . Why do we have to make that like illegal or whatever ? You know what I mean . Anyways , we got married and I was so glad we did it , just seeing the look in people's eyes and how they accepted me and just what that did for her , and there were so many beautiful things that happened after we got married . And then we have my little boy , evan .

Speaker 2 28:46

I'm 27 at the time and the reality of me being responsible for someone else kind of hits me and just like they really like Understanding what like love really is . Like yeah , I'd been in love with , with Cassie , but then when I had my son and just seeing that kind of just like Before I had never really thought too deeply about God or about About any of that kind of stuff and then my , my son's born , I'm like , oh man , there's some really really heavy , important things going on . I feel like this is like I was being introduced to the spirit of like creation by by this little boy being in front of me . Yeah , kind of that kind of changed things . I , I Got , I got completely sober . I like , yeah , it just was , it was an automatic kind of like switch for me of like , oh , I Gotta be on my game , because now I have a kid that depends on me , I've got to be there , I'm gonna be . You know , my wife was working , I was gonna be a stay-at-home dad , except when I was playing gigs , and so I cleaned up my , my life as far as like drugs and partying and stuff like that .

From TV Show to Record Deal

Speaker 2 30:08

And Then an opportunity presented itself about , you know , maybe like Seven , eight months after my son was born , where I got this opportunity to try out for a TV show . And and the funny thing about that is is I was dead set against any kind of like commercial Opportunity , of like sell it out . You know , it was like that whole likes like punk rock , diy . I don't want to sell out , I want to be in control of my own situation , and but this opportunity sort of came up and you know like I had entertained the idea of doing it and decided I didn't want to do it .

Speaker 2 30:52

And the guy that was managing me at the time , my friend , he really didn't hear that . He didn't hear . He didn't hear Mike , no , he heard , he heard maybe , and so he went ahead and booked it and Literally the day before the audition for the TV show America's Got Talent . This was in 2007 . He calls me . He's like , okay , you got that audition , like , and I was like what are you talking about ? I was like I never agreed to do it . He's like , no , yeah , and he was basically like , look , I put my neck on the line . My brother-in-law got you a backdoor audition , like this is gonna . He was angry and he wanted me to do it and and I get it . And so I decided to go to this audition and I went completely unprepared , not knowing what really , what this was gonna be .

Speaker 2 31:44

And I show up to this audition for America's Got Talent and this is like a backdoor , behind-the-scenes audition . All the producers of the show are there and you're . You're basically there's a line of chairs and you walk into an empty Conference room and you just do something , whether you're , if you know , you know a comedian or some kind of circus act , and man , when I showed up , when I showed up , the thing that I was sort of taken back by is like men , the people that were there for that audition were prepared like these people . You know , there was like Circus acts and dance troops and and singing groups and like professionals , you know , and I , I was just like a gutter-punk kind of kid , coming off of the gig with cut-off bluejean shorts and a dirty shirt from the night before .

Speaker 2 32:31

Yeah and I felt totally out of place and I went in front of those judges and I just played them some , a couple original tunes , and they're like okay , okay , okay , do you know any covers ? And I was like , no , I don't know any covers . They're like are you sure like any any ? Any kind of modern song you could play ? We need to hear that . And I was like , no , they're like well , do you know anything that a British guy would like ? And I was a big police fan and , and so I was like , actually , I do know something that a British guy would like . I know a police song , and so I played the version that I had been playing live for a couple years of walking on the moon . And so I played the police walking on the moon and they really didn't have much of a reaction . They said , okay , thank you very much .

Speaker 2 33:18

And I went about my way and Didn't . I definitely didn't think I did good . I mean , I was like , yeah , and you know I was unprepared . Um , in about two weeks I get a call and they're like look , we want you to come to Hollywood . You made it , you made it on no way you made it onto the TV show .

Speaker 2 33:38

And with that phone call also came this contract . That was , you know , about two inches thick , and I didn't even read it . I was just like there's no point in re , there's no point in reading this . I didn't have the money for a lawyer or anything . It was like either I do it or I don't . And so I just signed it and and I started that journey and I went on the TV show America's Got Talent , and the way that was the first song that I played was walking on the moon and Luckily enough , you know , you two , that just started up . It was just getting going .

Speaker 2 34:11

There wasn't a lot of viral sensations . You know , at that time , if it , man , it was going viral on YouTube , there wasn't a ton of users yet . So I play walking on the moon and I do really good . As far as the judges are concerned , they're like oh , that's great . You know you did great . And Pierce Morgan's like I seen Sting perform that and you performed it better , you know , which to me , was kind of a joke . You know , it's all entertainment , you know what I mean .

Speaker 2 34:44

The thing that they say on those shows . But what happened is that video got posted online and it went viral . And so in 2007 , the summer of 2007 , that went viral . And then the next thing , you know , I'm doing good on the show , I'm making it through each round . I make it through , you know , top 100 , the top 700 , the top 20 . Then I get down to the you know top 10 , make it through that , and then I make it all the way to the top four and there's a chance here I'm going to win this TV show and win a million bucks , you know , and , and so I end up not winning , I end up getting second place , and , but everything had changed . I'd been on national TV for two months , solid . You know my whole my whole world had changed .

Speaker 2 35:37

as far as I was selling merchandise online , I had more money in my bank account than I had in my bank account and I'd ever had , and all my bills were paid and I felt rich . You know what I mean , even though , even though I wasn't , I had maybe , like you know , 20 grand or something like that . And but man coming from where I came from to have 20,000 bucks and your bills paid is rich , you know because , you were poor man , you know , and so I was signed to out of the TV show .

Speaker 2 36:08

I was signed to a deal with Epic Records Sony Epic Records through the TV show , and they were going to make this you know this out major label release album and I ended up deciding not to do it . And you know it was . It was a big deal . It was that you know , as a million dollar record deal and I would have got a lot of money out of it . But when I seen the way that it was going to be managed and that they were in control of the material and my likeness and they pretty much owned me , I decided to get out of the deal . And so I got out of the deal .

Speaker 2 36:50

I'm living in Dallas . At the time we upgraded from the apartment , from the apartment to like a nice house . You know what I mean Me and just my family and I had this vision . I was like what do I do now ? You know , I had . I went through this whole journey with TV show and then I had I ended up producing an album myself and signed with this management company . And then what happens ? This is in the matter of six months . What happens ? Is the album successful . It goes to like you know it's like goes to number one on the main iTunes charts . I'm so like you know a bunch of records for the time . I sold like 70,000 records in the in the first like two months or something like that , and it's might not be exactly that , but anyways it was a big success . But then the guy who's managing me burns me .

Speaker 1 37:43

No way .

Speaker 2 37:44

I end up getting into a conflict with him and I fire him and he had all of . He had convinced me to run the album through his distribution company and so instead of paying me for those 70,000 albums or 60 , whatever it was which I should have been getting wholesale back , I should have been getting five to six dollars a record . So you know , times five , six bucks by 70,000 . This dude owed me a lot of money and he sends me a bill for that exact amount , a bill for the exact amount and steals the money and so , like I'm devastated , I don't have any money . Luckily , in that time frame of Of that whole thing happening , I had made a decision to use the money that I had to buy some property and I started building a home , and so we moved back to Paris , texas . I've got this successful album . This managers all of this stuff's happening . You know where he steals this money , but yet I bought this land and I decided to build a home and for the next year I didn't deal with him stealing that . I didn't deal with any of these legal issues or anything I took , I just totally took the time off . We lived in a camper and we built our house and it was almost , like you know , long meditation for me to kind of contemplate on my career and what I wanted to do .

Speaker 2 39:10

Moving forward , I'd been exposed to , you know , the horrible side of the music industry with getting this kind of flash fame and then getting ripped off by a manager , and I built this home and sort of gave me the foundation to start , start back up again and just start pursuing my career the way I wanted to pursue it , with me and the driver's seat doing exactly what I wanted to do . And you know , that's what I've been doing ever since . You know , it's just kind of going with my gut and just me being the boss and me doing things the way I want to do it . And you know , yeah , yeah , so that's , and by the time I got the house finished it was like the end of 2008 , you know where you're removed from when I released the album , when I was on the TV show , and from there .

Navigating Music Career Challenges

Speaker 2 40:06

You know there's a lot to the story , so I can keep on , Cass this is incredible .

Speaker 1 40:11

No , but this is what I wanted to hear , because when people look at you , like they look at your Instagram , or they look at you performing , or they look at your family , they look at everything and they're like , oh must be nice for Cass , but it's nice . He must have rich parents .

Speaker 1 40:30

I'm just being honest with you , because everyone , a majority of people , come on the podcast . We look at it and we're like , oh must be nice . And I'm like you guys have no idea . That is why I love these podcasts , because it shares the stories of you know , I was all the way up , I got yanked back down and now I'm now doing it my way .

Speaker 1 40:48

And I'm doing it how I want to do it because the thing is and it's like very similar to like these guys who , like you know , Dave Ramsey is yeah , of course , Like where he does the whole like he did .

Speaker 1 41:03

The real estate got demolished , bankrupt and now he's building , but like you , build it on your own , in control , it takes longer time and it's like it takes time . But the compounding effect of looking up is like wow , that's , it's crazy , when you're in control of everything takes a little bit longer . Yeah , you know , and that's just the way that I am .

Speaker 2 41:25

I have to . I have to do that . I realized that after having those experiences is that , you know , nobody knows what I want except me . Nobody's going to be able to . And it's not just yeah , there's going to be guys out there that know how to make more money , pursuing this in a quicker amount of time , but are the sacrifices that have to be made ? Are the sacrifices that have to be made for that to exist ? Am I willing to make those ? Am I willing to leave my family ? Am I willing to play , you know , songs that I don't like ? Am I willing to do all this stuff , just all in the name of making more money ?

Speaker 2 42:00

And I knew it was really a complex thing where it's like I needed to be in control of the direction that I did this and be able to do anything I wanted at any time . And it's been a constant up and down man . I mean I've had so many experiences that I've had . I mean I've had so many different , you know , great opportunities that were amazing , that you know the ambitious part of yourself says this is it , it's all up and here , you know it's from here we're going , we're going to the stars , you know , and then it's just like okay , and then back down .

Speaker 2 42:35

And you know what I've been . What I've tried to do is I've tried to take on , like , if I'm inspired by a creative idea or a way to pursue my career , to try that out and , as I'm doing it , check in with myself and refine my approach . And that's what I've done for the last , you know , 10 , 15 years of like . You know , try something , do it , check in whether it's even like . Here's an example venues that I want to play . Go out there , I'm trying playing new venues . I make a list of the venues that I like and if I experienced things that I didn't like about the venue or about the promoter , you know , I'll just check it off my list and I won't go back there .

Speaker 2 43:20

I want to have experiences that I enjoyed and that were good for the whole thing , instead of just doing the same old thing . Because that's a venue everybody plays , you got to do it . No , you don't . It doesn't matter , you don't have to do it . You don't have to do anything like that you don't want to do and you don't have to like . There's all of these kind of systems set up in every business that people expect you to do things like this or like this or like that . You don't have to do any of that . You can do things your own way and , yeah , it's going to do . In that , you're right , it does take longer , but at least the experience of it you're getting rid of all of those kind of negative , dysfunctional things that you experienced of like I don't want to deal with people like that . You know what I mean .

Speaker 2 44:10

I want to deal with people like this , and that's what's being self-directed is , and that's what like , I think people that are really happy and are people that can really make things happen , that's what they do . They make those hard decisions . They're like nah , we ain't doing that .

Speaker 1 44:31

Absolutely , because it's taking control and it's making your decisions and it's kind of removing liabilities and people who are negative space , who won't allow you to create as well as you want to create . Now I know you mentioned this when I was doing my research what happened with your music , music , music career . And then , because you were saying that you would go and just play music and you weren't really dealing with your family , and then you said how , you had your family and you would really deal with music , and then you found a combination of the two . Can you dive into that a little bit ?

Speaker 2 45:05

Sure , yeah . So , like you know , coming out of the TV show , coming out of being ripped off , building the home and then start my career back , I did exactly what you do . I sort of tapped into those systems that already existed . I got a band together and we went on the road with a bunch of guys and just playing , like sort of pursuing the career , the way that the world says that you pursue a career . You know what I mean Of like grinding out . You know , three , four weeks at a time , playing every venue that you can possibly play , even though a lot of them were shitty . You know , with all kinds of you know excuse my language , but , like you know , pornographic images with drawn on the walls , with sharpies in the green rooms , just like shitty spots and a rock and roll kind of bullshit . And so I did that from 2008, . 2009 is really probably when I started back up again , up till , you know , probably a good five years of me like grinding out with the band and then a lot of stuff . After I'd grind out with the band for a long time , I realized that was just so expensive that I started doing a lot of acoustic stuff to be able to provide more money for the family . Not that I enjoyed it more , but I was , like had the pressures of having kiddos . I'd had another child in 2009, . So now I had two kids , and so having two kids really made me make the decision to play acoustic without the band more often because I could make more money , but I was spending a lot of time by myself , sacrificing all the time with my family because just to grind out and make money .

Speaker 2 46:44

And so in 2014 , me and my son went to a music festival it was like it was called Snowball . It was up on the Canadian Minnesota border which was combined with like skiing and snowboarding with a little music festival , and during that trip , I had a couple of pretty bad wrecks . You know , I had no experience snowboarding or skiing and it was super cold . I was super overweight , I was like 330 pounds and I was on a snowboard and the temperature was like negative 15 . It was like ice , you know , super fast it was . So I ended up injuring myself on that trip and I thought I'd just pulled some muscles , like I was like I wasn't . Like . You know , it was a weird injury . It was like I just didn't feel right .

Speaker 2 47:43

I performed after I had injured myself and then I went home and in the following like two or three weeks I started noticing that I was having a hard time performing . I was having a hard time , I was having a hard time singing and that kind of progressed . You know the anxiety and the stress hit of , like man , what's going on ? I can't sing like I normally can . I could talk , but the minute I would try to like really project my voice I would have this like clamping muscle kind of feeling , clenching tension kind of thing going on and I couldn't perform and I didn't know why . And so , like I had six months worth of gigs booked out .

Speaker 2 48:30

I was doing a bunch of university tours and a bunch of different stuff and I was forced I actually tried to do the university stuff about three or four weeks after that happened and in the middle of it you know a few gigs into it I was just like I can't do this , like I can't perform these songs . I tried everything like detuning my guitar to a lower , lower key and stuff and moving songs to where I wouldn't have to sing as hard just because I needed the money . I was just going to get through this stuff and I had this kind of breakdown where I realized that something's going on . I can't perform something , I'm injured , something's happening , and so I ended up canceling the rest of that tour and I went to UT Southwestern Medical Center to get my voice checked out and just basically do some investigating of what's going on , and I ended up having some nerve damage in my neck , in the top of my back .

Speaker 2 49:31

And I canceled pretty much the rest of the year and I started taking physical therapy and voice therapy and doing everything that I possibly could . I was doing acupuncture sessions and everything to try to get back to it . But in that moment of me not being able to sing and kind of losing you know , losing that ability to perform music , I kind of lost my mind because I was so wrapped up in that and the idea of that being who I was and being my value as a human that there was like a death that was happening and I was fighting it . At first I was cursing the world about it and after I got through you know , a couple of weeks of that kind of , you know , losing my mind , I sort of took a look around me and I had this moment of clarity where I realized everything that I'd been sacrificing and how I had over identified with music and singing . I had over identified with that and I like made made that who I was , or at least I had convinced myself that that's who I was . These things that I was doing is who I was .

Speaker 2 50:50

And I started looking for a way to be able to fix that and I had all kinds of therapy and all all kinds , you know , psychological , emotional , and everything I was searching . I mean , I was , you know , trying to figure out what was happening in my mind , because I felt totally unstable and I didn't know how I was going to provide for my family and I had lost my passion , what I was into and how I had over identified with that , and I just , I ended up , you know , starting to write songs , not really even being able to sing . I started writing these songs and I came up with this concept and I sort of built back , you know , a new foundation of me pursuing this , of , like you know what , I'm not going to do this anymore the way that I was doing it . I couldn't sing the way I used to sing either , so I had to learn how to relearn , how to sing in a different way .

Speaker 1 51:47

Oh , wow .

Speaker 2 51:48

And with that , you know , came all kinds of like , ideas of , and sort of clarity of like even being able to see that I had separated my family and my music and that I had pursued music in an unhealthy way , where I was sacrificing my health , sacrificing my relationships all for this , like gotta go get it all for this hustle , for this passion for music . And I realized that the value that I really have when everything's gone , when everything's gone , is my relationships . It's not me playing music you know I love playing music but it's not who I am . Who I am is Does my son like me ? Does my son know me ? Does my wife like me ? Do we have good relationships ? That's where your value is . Do you have friends ? Do they like you ? Do you bring value to them other than just money ?

Speaker 2 52:54

I had those realizations and I started pursuing my career in a different manner and from a different place , where I wanted to not sacrifice my time with my family . I wanted to pursue my music career with them involved , and in order to do that , I had to perform less , because the family wasn't going to want to be on the road , you know , half of the year , or more than half of the year . So it created a lot more balance with how I was pursuing it and it gave us a lot more time together , where you know that's all we got is our time . I mean , before we know it , we're not going to be here , bro . You know what ?

Speaker 1 53:37

I mean , it's like that's started .

Speaker 2 53:38

That's sort of , you know , has been my foundation of like what I want to do is just placing the most importance on us being together and also enjoying what we're pursuing . So and those have been kind of things that I've used to decide what I want to do .

Speaker 1 53:57

Yeah , I mean , it's amazing when you share something like that . I appreciate the vulnerability , I appreciate you sharing that because when we really think about it , you're probably sitting there going yeah , I'm a singer because I want to be with my family and you're like , because of my voice hurting and like these nerve damage and this stuff , I actually am forced to be with my family and it's this ironic thing of like I was doing this to hang out with you and now I'm hanging out with you more and it's like is this what ? What it's really all about

Fluid Identity and Musical Evolution

Speaker 1 54:25

. And then , once you come to that realization and I feel like a lot of people identify have identity issues because they're so aligned with their work , and especially someone who's a musician , who's like this , selling yourself like you're selling a product .

Speaker 2 54:39

That's your identity . It's a dangerous . It's a dangerous mind game that artists play when you're selling your likeness . You know , another really unhealthy thing that happens is you start to have a fixed identity . So imagine you create , you're going to sell yourself and it's the year 2008 and you're selling this image of who you are and what you are and you start to over identify with the very things that you're starting to sell and you start to believe that that's who you are . That's what happens .

Speaker 2 55:11

That's what happened to me . You know , as a musician and as a songwriter , I was selling myself as something . I was consuming all of that content and all of that branding and all of that identity and I convinced myself that that's what I was and so many artists . That's why so many artists have so many psychological issues and drug abuse issues . Because you lose yourself , you lose the natural ability to grow and to change , which is what we're all doing . You know it's like that fixed identity thing is kind of really really dangerous . You know it's really hard and it's hard not to get caught up in that web .

Speaker 1 55:50

It's very unhealthy and there's many of us who are like you could have you probably have a friend who's a teacher and they think they're going to be a teacher their entire life and it's like there's these issues left and right with everybody and it's really the identity as , as Cass is saying here , it's got to be fluid , it's got to be changing , it's got to be operational , because we're not always the same person and we're always changing . So , Cass , that kind of leads me into what's coming out for you , what's in the future . I know you have a new album coming and like what's that ? What's the reason behind that ? What's that all about ?

Speaker 2 56:24

Yeah , you know okay . So , like this , this is kind of a project the project's called Boots Rock Reggae and it's something that's sort of a long time coming that I didn't do for a lot of time because I was afraid of the idea . I didn't want to ever be labeled as someone that was a cover artist , because I was a songwriter , you know . But yet I had that experience at the beginning of my career where I was exposed to millions of people on America's Got Talent , doing covers in my own way , and I was really successful and it kind of like . I was like but I'm a songwriter , I have words and I have songs that I want to tell about my story and so , for you know , a good from 2007 , all the way up till this last year . How long is that ? What is that ? It's like 15 or how long 15 years .

Speaker 1 57:21

15 years .

Speaker 2 57:22

So for 15 years I was almost dead set against doing covers . I put a few out here and there , but I was , like , always wanted to keep it original . And you know I finally got to this place , you know , in this last couple of years , where it's like I no longer really worry or care about how like other people see me versus my experience with this music , and I also what I wanted to do with this . It's basically an album where I'm taking all of my favorite country and older rock tunes and I'm doing these reggae cast daily versions of these tunes .

Speaker 2 58:07

And another motivation for doing this is me being in Paris , texas , being raised in the South , being you know country as a part of my culture and my parents always loved country and blue grass and blues music . And that's when I was raised on and I've been doing , you know , reggae and influenced music and was sort of known for doing reggae and I always felt misunderstood wherever I went because here I was , this country boy in all reality , doing right , doing reggae , and for a lot of people it just didn't fit , you know , for them to like realize they were like , oh , this sounds nice , but what is this Like ? I don't , I don't know Like they . You know everybody would like you know for a reggae artist just to be someone that's from Jamaica with dreadlocks or whatever . You know what I mean and I get that . So for a long time I've always felt a little misunderstood and because people's minds are so closed , you know music and that that's a lot . That's the truth . It's like you know , a lot of people want this in a particular box .

Speaker 1 59:12

Well , it's because , sorry to cut you off there , but , like you're saying , it's hard for someone to comprehend someone like Shaquille O'Neal how they're like he's a basketball player and he's a business guy and he's a TV host , and I think that's cool to have those multiple identities of like yo , we're not just one person . Yeah , we could play all the different stuff . Yeah .

Speaker 2 59:33

And for me , like for me it was , it was like I've always loved all different styles of music and I never looked at it . I never looked at it from a perspective of like only people from South Africa can play these rhythms . You know , I never understood that music was this thing that was always influencing other areas and whether it was , you know , 500 years ago , travelers coming through and picking up a new riff , and then it was like all of the styles of music that we have today have been influenced by different regions and the mixtures of cultures , and it's like it's this growing kind of thing . It's never this fixed thing . You know , even in the industry we have these genres and categories and every now and then you'll see a new genre and a new genre Now you're starting to see it progress even more , whether there's Hiccop , which is rap , rap country or , like you know , even Reggae as a genre is so heavily influenced by so many different worlds .

Speaker 2 1:00:38

1950s R&B influenced Reggae a lot , a lot of African music influenced Reggae , cuban music there's , so it was such a hodgepodge and all of music styles really are that . Yeah , you know , whether it's Western swing or whether it's rock and roll that came from blues . There's just so many examples of all of these . Everything that we think of as a style is really just a mixture and inspired by other things , so that's the way I'd always thought about music . So it wasn't hard for me to just mix it all up and do whatever I wanted to , but it was hard for people . So . So what I decided to do ? I wanted to build a bridge between where I'm from and my roots and a lot of the people that I'm surrounded by , and inspire them to listen to songs that they love and know where those neural networks are developed , and to introduce them to what I would do with those very beautiful songs and record them and produce them my way , and to show that I'm like , oh , a good song is a good song , and you know what I ?

Speaker 1 1:01:44

mean .

Speaker 2 1:01:45

So that's where the idea of Boots Rock Ray Gay came , and so , about six , seven months ago , I had decided that the way that I was gonna pursue this was , instead of doing your typical kind of album promotion thing of hiring a publicist and trying to get radio or trying to do this and that and spending a bunch of money , I was like I'm gonna put all my time into doing reels and being creative every day and showing people these creations Every day , coming in here taking a song that maybe I'd just listened to , had never played , and just producing a little demo version of it on Instagram and TikTok .

Speaker 2 1:02:22

And so , in the matter of like eight , 10 weeks of me doing that started popping off . I started getting a viral video and a second viral video and the next thing , you know , I go from like 17,000 Instagram followers to 124,000 Instagram followers and it took on and people identified with it because they love these songs and it was a doorway to introduce these people to my sound and what I do with music and my love for mixing styles . And so that's this new album man Boots Rock Reggae . Instead of Roots Rock , reggae Boots Rock , reggae .

Speaker 1 1:03:01

So I love that . I'm so excited . I love this . This sounds absolutely incredible , and where can people ? When's this releasing ? When can people find it ?

Speaker 2 1:03:12

So the album's coming out on July 28th and it's gonna be released digital so Spotify , apple Music , all of your digital distribution channels and stuff like that .

Speaker 2 1:03:23

And the idea too is like this is volume one , so I'm gonna be making multiple volumes of this and then , like , volume one and volume two will be released together as a double vinyl , and I'm not sure if we're gonna do CDs or not , because I don't know , a lot of people don't have CD players anymore . But yeah , man , it's been fun and it's , you know , the greatest thing about this . Also , it's been a really great experience removing myself from some of the emotional aspects of my own songs and how vulnerable and over identified I was with this being my song and my story , and then just like taking these great songs and creating with them on a daily basis and just producing versions of it has been really , really fun for me . And it's been liberating of just learning to follow my gut because , like , literally , when I would make it out like a lot of people were like this , you would make an album , you would work on it way too long , you would like you would not really you know , it's the perfectionism .

Speaker 2 1:04:30

Yeah , yeah , well , and it's like what idea are you going for ? Like , the first idea could have been as good as the next , but this has just been really cool with me being able to like , accept my best in every moment instead of thinking I can always do better . No , no , like . And it's really been healthy for me as a creator and an artist to have this kind of receptive kind of thing of like . I'm creating every day and I'm just putting it out there for people to see and to judge whether they like it or not . It's been really healthy for me , versus withholding all of this and thinking I have this masterpiece . You know it's not about a masterpiece . It's about presence and creating and it being a receptive thing where you're creating value for people . People love seeing people create . They , even if the value they get out of it is like a negative one . That's still the kind of thing where they're like oh , who the fuck is this dude ? You know what I mean . This dude's ruining country music . You know that's entertaining too . You know what I mean .

Speaker 1 1:05:30

It's like the best part , I think , about it is that I could imagine that your lifestyle changed a little bit . You know what I mean . So you're going from this point of I have to put all my eggs in one basket in hoping , when I drop the album , that it's amazing . You are getting instant feedback over the past two months , like that is incredible to see , because people don't realize that whenever , like even when I do this podcast , I know sometimes I'm bad , sometimes I'm good , I don't know , but I know I need more reps . So , as we get more reps and you're getting reps every single day , instead of doing them in private , you're just sharing with people .

Speaker 2 1:06:09

Not a big deal .

Speaker 1 1:06:10

It's cool . It's like yo . I'm on the journey . Check me out .

Speaker 2 1:06:14

Totally man and it's so healthy man . It's like a lot of creators get so caught up when they're withholding this and it's because they have so much creative energy and they're just expelling all of this and they're not getting fed anything back . And it's really . It's really been a good experience for me of just exposing , of just letting the stuff go , and of course , I'm trying to do my best every day . I mean , I'm not , I'm not , I'm not phoning it in at all . I'm enjoying , but I'm also . I set it up where I'm accepting what my best is , even if there's insecurities about it , like that was my best , that was my best and I'm putting it out there .

Speaker 1 1:06:56

But the other good thing and people talk about this a lot is if you only showed up on days when you were your best , then maybe you're only showing up twice a week . You're getting the reps of going every single day and then it's like hey , public , this is what I got . If you're interested , cool , if you're not , all good . I just want to share this journey because the other really cool part about this and I found this from podcasting is , as you're recording these , you can see yourself on your own journey and then you have random people from I don't know Egypt or Ireland watching you go in , like like somewhere where you might never play , and they're like yo , cass Haley , like that's what's up .

Speaker 2 1:07:35

Dude , we live in an amazing time . I mean it's like I love playing live but I love creating content . I mean I absolutely love it and , honestly , the bang for my buck as far as me getting to be here at the house and getting to be with my family in a comfortable environment and creating and being , you know , and it being received . It's so powerful and there's so much that you know . Creators , I think , can benefit from just creating more content and also creating like a system in which you have a positive relationship with that you know what I mean .

Speaker 2 1:08:15

That's a really difficult thing , where people get wore out , you know .

Speaker 1 1:08:20

So I completely agree . So , like , the way I do it is , I'll take our podcast and then I can clip it up . So I'll clip it up and we'll have 10 clips from that . So it's not like I'm sitting here exhausting and I say this not from me being like , hey , this is how I make a podcast . It's for the audience to sit there and go oh , you don't have to sit there and screen videos every single day . No , no , you can chop this up and you can post it over the two weeks or whatever it is , and people can share it and it's fine . It's just as it becomes more part of your journey . You're just like , okay , I'm gonna film myself when I sing this one song . Fine , next move on . Yeah , it's cool .

Speaker 2 1:08:59

It's very powerful man , I mean for years

The Power of Creating Content

Speaker 2 1:09:02

. I , you know , I've been a big fan of Gary Vee for a long time , like everybody you know , because he also resonated with that kind of spirit of like fuck everything else and do whatever . The fuck you wanna do and do it your best . I love that .

Speaker 2 1:09:17

But I kind of like watched him talk about creating content for a long time and was like kind of resistant about it and felt like I wasn't , like I was afraid to just put myself out there more often because I was wanting to be seen a certain way versus just be seen . Even though I'm you know people say I'm an authentic guy I was still afraid to be seen the way that I am . You know what I mean . Like that much of just like , do you ? I'm convinced , man , for all of you people watching this , listen to this , whatever I'm convinced that if you're creative and when I say creative I mean if you're a gardener , if you're a construction , if you're what I think we're all kind of creators and I believe that there's millions of people that are going to resonate with pretty much every one of us .

Speaker 2 1:10:09

As I'm scrolling through TikTok , I'm so amazed by the different little multiverses that exist of people that identify with certain things , whether it's the guy there's a guy in Alaska that sits by this river and plays this little pandron and he's got this massive following . It doesn't matter if you play spoons , if you do drywall , if you are somebody that's a master at you know painting like construction , or building this or that . There is a world out there that wants to see you do that . It's , it's incredible .

Speaker 1 1:10:46

And it's because , like , 99% of people are consuming when they should be producing . So sit there , figure out a way to produce your content , share it . And the best part is , if nothing happens , you at least documented part of your journey so you can always look back on that . And also , once someone finds you and there's like a hundred other pieces , that's like okay , now I'm in the Cass Haley spiral . Like I said , cass Haley , five times I've looked you up on Instagram . Now it's just I'm gonna see you for the next week and a half and then when I start posting and you're there , I'm gonna start seeing you even more . So it's just the spiral . But the thing is that you have to produce the content for it at least to occur for someone to find you . Because , like Cass was saying , america's got talent . He had to put himself out there . That was a big put out . This is I'm sitting at home .

Speaker 2 1:11:39

It's not that hard , you're saying something to the camera and say at a tree and it says powerful as America's got talent . That's what you don't realize . It's like the potential brand dude . It's like I had so many great opportunities . I was , you know another thing that came up I won this songwriting competition and got this job with Lincoln , the car company to film multiple commercials , and had this massive campaign . You know , I was in this commercial and they used my song . They made this documentary and it was a big job . This happened right before 2020 hit .

Speaker 2 1:12:14

But it's like you know , people look at that and it's like , oh man , that's big time . You , like you know , got this Lincoln kind of sponsorship . They gave you a car and gave you a job for these commercials Use your song . But it's like even something that big pales into comparison as creating content for eight weeks and it being visible in people's comfort . You know what I mean . Like this is the most powerful thing beyond a record deal , beyond anything that could happen for your career . If you're already pursuing a career , the most like creating content is not an option . It's the most powerful thing you can do . Just put yourself out there . Do you show yourself doing whatever you do and you'll get better at producing it in a way where people find more value in it . It's so powerful .

Speaker 1 1:13:01

Absolutely , and it's the more and more reps you get . You learn from it and it's just , you're getting real time feedback and nothing can beat that .

Finding Dukas and His Upcoming Tour

Speaker 1 1:13:10

Dukas , where can people find you ? Where could you have been amazing ? Thank you so much for all your time , by the way . All right , man , thank you .

Speaker 2 1:13:17

Yeah , man , so you can find me . You can check out my website , casthaleycom . Casthalymusic on Instagram . I'm pretty much on all the stuff YouTube , tiktok , all of the platforms you can also see me live . We're gonna start back up on the road in September . We're gonna be touring with the original Wailers , which is members of Bob Marley's band , and we'll be touring throughout the Midwest , northeast and Florida . We're coming back . You should come hang out when we're there .

Speaker 1 1:13:49

Absolutely . Let's do it . Amazing .