Your Brain Predicts Reality Before You Notice

We sit down with Carrie Tan and Dr. Andreas Rahorso to unpack how “micro moments” turn split-second thoughts into decisions that shape leadership, relationships, and results. We challenge the idea that we see reality as it is, then share practical ways to spot the mental scripts that quietly hijack our choices. 
• why most of us run on unconscious reaction rather than conscious intention 
• the mind as weather forecasting rather than weather reporting 
• how Carrie and Andreas decided to write a book after two meetings 
• the “politician” example as a fast bias trigger that can make people disengage 
• predictive hallucination and why the brain fills in blanks 
• how silence on text and remote work can create damaging stories 
• a real-world values conflict scenario and how identity scripts escalate risk 
• how AI can reinforce confirmation bias and spark leadership conflict 
• common workplace micro moments around underappreciation, micromanaging, and delegation 
• the OPIJ model: Observation, Perception, Interpretation, Judgment 
They can visit our website. It’s at www.micromomentsimpl.com. 

How to reach out Carrie Tan

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thrivingwithcarriet/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CarrieTanCares/

Linkedin: https://sg.linkedin.com/in/coachcarrie

How to reach out Dr. Andreas Rahorso

Linkedin: https://sg.linkedin.com/in/andreasraharso

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AndreasRaharso/

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Complimentary Edwards Consulting Session: https://calendly.com/jordan-edwardsconsulting/30min 

Transcript

Intention Versus Unconscious Reaction

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey, what's going on, guys? I got a special guest. Two guests here today. We're joined with Carrie Tan and Dr. Andreas Rahorso. He's a they're both co-authors of Micro Moments, How Your Mind Sabotages You Every Day. Carrie is a former member of the Parliament and transformative coach while Andreas is an innovation strategist at NUS Business School. And together, we're going to break down how split-second thoughts shape leadership, performance, culture, and ultimately the direction of our lives. So I want to ask you guys first. I'm super excited to have you guys. Do you believe most people are living from conscious intention or unconscious reaction? Carrie, you can start off. Excited to have you guys.

SPEAKER_04 0:50

That's a no-brainer. Most people are not living with conscious intention. And this is where Andres is coming to ask you like, do you think you're conscious right now?

SPEAKER_02 1:03

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

Guess what? The answer is we think that we are conscious, but we are at the mercy of our minds programming.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Oh wow. Wow. Andres, what do you what do you think about that question as well?

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yes, most of the time we believe that we are conscious, especially when we make important decisions. But sorry, I have to tell you all that you are actually unconscious. Do you want me to explain why this happened, Jordan? Yeah, absolutely. Let's let's dive into it. All right. So actually, this is very important starting point. Our mind is not a camera, like all of you think before. So when it's our mind is like a camera, then basically we have a weather reporting. Weather reporting is real. If it's rain, if it's hail, then it's it. Right? Yeah. Sorry, Jordan, your mind, our mind is weather forecasting. Interesting. So what we see right now, what you see right, me right now and Carrie is based on your mind forecasting. So when it's come to weather forecasting, you know, right, how dangerous it is. It could be say it's a sunny day and suddenly it's rain and you forget to bring your umbrella. That's basically what happened right now. And very few people are aware about this. I can continue later, but let's carry uh continue with this. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:50

What Andreas is basically saying is that what we perceive as reality is not really reality, it is a filtered version of reality that has the micro moments, it goes through many micro moments, and then it forms a certain prediction of what reality is. And that process is what we cover in our book, Micro Moments. It's about dissecting those moments when we perceive something, we see something, and then our mind immediately predicts it into a version of reality that it's often not really the objective reality.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Absolutely. So we had a prep call, and I'm super excited to get started with you guys because what we talked about in the prep call and what we're gonna do today is we're actually gonna talk about how you guys started writing a book because you started so quickly, you met twice and then started writing a book. And then also we're gonna talk about some of the micro moments that come up there so the audience can sit there and listen and start to realize where are micro moments coming up in their lives and where are they overanalyzing this and not really thinking about the exact moment. So, how did you guys come up with writing a book together after two meetings? So, how did you guys even meet? How did this all happen?

SPEAKER_04 4:14

It sounds pretty crazy, but I met Professor Andreas at a public policy and sustainability workshop in Singapore's premium public policy school, and he was the last lecturer in that course. And he used a very interesting word because I thought it was unusual for the word ritual to come up in such an academic setting. Because in my work as an intuitive and transmittive coach, the word ritual has some connotations of the esoteric. So, right, and I was like, oh, this because the word ritual is familiar to me in a different context, I guess I had a micro moment then and immediately jumped to concluding that Andreas is somebody who has a philosophy or is very much aligned with my understanding of the world and what I am doing in my coaching practice. And so I just went up to him and said, you know, can we talk more? Love to explore what you're doing. And we decided to just catch up when we were happened to both be in New York and we met up in New York, and then we decided we'd write a book together.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Oh my God. So from Singapore to New York, all around the world. I I love that. Andreas, what was your perspective on this on writing the book and kind of getting started and diving deeper and really bringing micro moments to awareness? Because yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

I'm already

Writing A Book After Two Meetings

SPEAKER_01 5:45

in this area perhaps since 2009. Basically working with a consulting firm before I'm going to the with the business and US Business School. And I'm always dealing with the executive. And to my surprise, with the long experience with them, I'm always have a big question. Why, why, why such a competent and full of experienced executives sometimes, not sometimes, actually, most of the times, make a stupid mistake. It's supposed to be it's not happen with all the credentials. And I cannot write this without I meet Carrie. Because number one, when I teach about my subject, most of the time my student will say that I say complete nonsense. Because before I'm going into this area, actually I'm quite familiar. My area of research is always about cognitive science. Basically, I used before into the innovation. So why people not able to create a breakthrough innovation simply because they are not conscious? When they are conscious, it's actually very simple. So I'm using ritual to help them to see the unseen. And when I'm coming into this, all my students start, these guys start to say something completely BS, something like that. And I'm very different with Carrie. Carrie is interesting with this. And then, well, I said, well, this is a rare breed of people, and we continue our discussion in a nice French restaurant in New York. And I am realized that, hey, Carrie, you are a politician. This will be a beautiful combination because in our book, basically, we can combine only two types of leader, right, in this world: business leader or political leader, right? Basically, that's all. Well, in one way or another, we will be in the overlap between these two. So at least we want to create this book to help all the leaders in this world to be able to make much better decisions.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Absolutely. So with with a lot of the executives and like the people that listen to this podcast, we start to realize that a lot of us have to make so many decisions every single day. Decisions that will impact their life in a positive way or a negative way. And it's how do we make those proper decisions? So, how, Carrie, do you think that how how do you think high performers and real executives can start to make better decisions in their life? Or how can they start to become aware of these micro moments? Because when you explained it to me, I didn't fully understand it. And then I started to go through examples and I was like, oh, this makes so much more sense.

SPEAKER_04 8:51

Right. I wanted to riff off. This is uh could be an interesting way to illustrate this. Like that moment when Andreas mentioned that I'm a politician, I would like you and all the your audience listening to this right now to notice what happened in your minds when the word politician comes up. Because it's such a loaded term, and in this day and age where we are living in such turbulent times and the political leaders all over the world are making questionable decisions, did the word politician trigger in you a moment of cynicism? Did it make you doubt that what has this woman got to offer me? She's such a sneaky, lying politician. What have I got to learn from her? Did you feel or did you notice perhaps that hint or shadow of a doubt crossing your mind? Because that's very common. Right? Even when I became a politician, I had to deal with people thinking like politician, equal to can be trusted.

Labels Trigger Bias In Milliseconds

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Now, if you're one of those who have the same micro moment going on in your head, then what is it could result in is that you could be switching off this podcast right now, you could be just dismissing it and then going on to watch something more interesting on Netflix, or you could be listening to what I'm saying and like, okay, she's right, I I actually had a doubt, and to stay on and to listen to what we've got to offer. And this is an example of a micro moment between but in everyone, right? Whether you're an executive leading a company or somebody just assessing, like, what should I do? What should I eat for today, or who should I go out with today? That split-second judgment that you may not even have been aware of determines your choice. Are you gonna go ahead or are you gonna switch your attention? Right. And so many important and strategic decisions are made without people being conscious that their minds have already been led by an unconscious judgment that happened in a millisecond, just in a fraction of a millisecond, even right, and this is something that I thought would be interesting because we are not saints, we are perfectly human and we have many of these micro moments ourselves too. But the difference is that we are trained to be aware of them. So even though Andres and I come from quite different generations, I think it's a boomer. I'm a millennial, right? He's a man, he's senior, I'm female. There are so many complicated dynamics that could come up in us working together or collaborating effectively together. And there were so many micro moments where if we had allowed our preconceived notions and doubts and past programming to come into play, it would have been impossible for us to turn out and give birth to this book in a short span of 15 months.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

But we did.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

No, I mean you're bringing up very valid points because you sit there and think about how many times, and just for the audience to realize this, how many times have you sat there and had a preconceived notion about someone? And it could be a religious figure, it could be a political figure. I know if you say if you say political in in the US, everyone thinks of the president, the vice president, the other people, the political parties. And yeah, I mean, it goes very, very quickly where it's like, who's this person? How does this work? What are they doing? And how many times do you guys have preconceived notions? Like, I was talking to my wife the other day. We were going on a hike, and she said, She was like, Yeah, those people are living the dream. And I'm like, Is that your dream? Is that the dream that happened? Like, how did that happen? And I just got like triggered by it. Like, I kind of got worked up because I was like, I thought we were living the dream. I thought this was great. And she was like, Why are you acting like this? And I'm like, I don't know. I want to live the dream. So it's just these micro moments where people say things and you start to become aware of like, why did that person freak out? How do we get rid of these preconceived notions, especially across what you guys are doing with generational gaps? Like, a lot of people have issues with their parents, a lot of people have issues with their grandparents because they see the world differently instead of just accepting, hey, like, why do you like the way it is? Why does this actually work? So, what were some of the micro moments that you guys had going through that book writing journey? Because I can imagine anyone who's written a book knows how hard it is, how intense it is. My opinion matters, your opinion matters. How how did you guys think about that? Andreas, how do you guys think about that?

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Well confession time, Andreas. Did you have any micro moments that you had to work through?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Well, I have a little I mean, uh Jordan, I mean we we cannot escape from our my micro moment. Perhaps I'm insist, I want to tell you something, it's very important. So perhaps why micro moment happened is more more more important to for me to to tell the uh your audience, okay. So let me continue about the the weather reporter, right? Yeah, okay, and the weather forecaster, okay. So our mind basically by DNA has to work very efficiently. That's a basic part of our DNA as human beings. Okay, so when it's come to be very efficient when we see something, so it's actually it's not efficient, we see everything. Uh-huh. Be careful, okay. So are you aware that if you throw a ball into the ceiling, actually you will have a trouble to see the ball in the middle. Oh, really? Yes. Why? Because actually, if our brain is the camera, so when you throw when you

Predictive Hallucination And Forecasting

SPEAKER_01 15:04

throw the ball into the ceiling, then it's supposed to be like camera, you can see the ball second by second until it hit the ceiling, right? Yeah. So our brain is so smart, it wastes time. Because when you throw a ball into the ceiling, it will end up in the ceiling. They can calculate that. So basically, they will create the trajectory and just see whatever is important, kind of sampling, and just create whatever in the between. So you let yeah. So you cannot see it slowly, no way. So same thing. If you you keep the ball and you throw uh you you you open your finger, our our brain know the ball, because of the gravitation, will go down, right? Yeah, so what why have to see every split second until the ball hits the floor? No way. So it's just predict. So this is a very important phenomena that we are aware today happen. They call it predictive hallucination. Predictive hallucination. Okay. So we we predict everything, our brain basically has a prediction machine. So at this moment, even you are keep predicting what I will say and keep predicting how you will make this discussion interesting. So you you actually never see me in the reality. You get just keep a sample of what I see and create a prediction. So I think this is very important to everyone to understand why actually we are actually all the time is unconscious. So basically, when your brain creates prediction, it's unconscious, right? It's not real, it's your brain hallucination.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Interesting. Because when most people are going through stuff, we're constantly trying to, you hear people say a lot of the time, I'm trying to think of the question to ask you. I'm trying to come up with questions to guide you on that conversation. And people don't realize that they're not actually in that present moment. They're not actually in that feeling it because they're just waiting for the next person to go and ask the next question or talk about their answer.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yes. So this has become very important for our discussion. So imagine to make this podcast successful, you have to ask interesting questions and lead into interesting discussion, right? So it depends on your micro moment, even though you already prepared before. So it doesn't matter, it happens now. Because Carrie will explain when actually the micro moment sabotage your mind, you are on the mercy of luck.

SPEAKER_04 17:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

So maybe I can give uh like an example of how our brain, our mind loves to fill in the blanks. Right? So for anybody out there who's ever tried to work out a collaboration and work with people from remote teams before and across different kinds of time zones, like how I had to work with Andreas over the he travels a lot. So we are constantly just discussing stuff over WhatsApp or on Zoom, and he's in different time zones. There were so many moments when a communication would go out from me and Andreas wasn't responding. And there were moments when there was to my tolerance level longer than usual stretches of silence. And I would notice my mind going to what's happening on his side, why is he not responding? Is he scriving? Is he procrastinating again? Why am I doing all the work and like blah blah

Silence Creates Stories In Partnerships

SPEAKER_04 18:49

blah blah blah, right? So I'm a bit more type A, and as you can see, Andres is quite chill, kind of gentlemen. We have very different work styles and we operate at very different cadence and intensity, and we would have not known anything like this about each other because remember, we met twice and we decided to work together. But in the absence of communication and in the absence of more data that provide clarity, it's so usual for our minds to imagine. And how do we imagine? We imagine based on references to our past experiences. Right? If we've had experiences before where we felt like we were kind of taking on more load than our team members or our co-workers have ever done, that that emotion of like feeling taken advantage of or feeling exploited could stay with us and cause a certain mental script to run. So I was very aware that in those moments where he was not responding for a tad too long, my mind was going in that direction. Like, is he a good partner? Should I continue? Or I'm so frustrated that maybe you should just call it off. There were so many moments that if I didn't catch myself to bring myself back to the present reality, which is I sent him a text three days ago at this time zone. He hasn't replied. Right? What is the logical thing if I wasn't running a script? The logical thing would be, hey Andreas, haven't heard from you in a while. Are you okay? Right? But no, like the other part of my brain was like, oh no, he's da da da da da making up all sorts of stories and imaginations about what he could be doing that could be that I could be risking, right? And this is what happens with our minds. Our minds are programmed and they function efficiently to try and keep us sick. They're not great if you want to do like a risk-taking thing and you want to, you know, just just have a breakthrough and do something out of the ordinary because your mind will be telling you, no, no, no, don't. Based on past experiences, these are all the things that could go wrong. And then you end up not taking that bold step forward. Like there was so much stacking against me just being chill and just trusting that Andres could be busy, he could be jet-lagged, he could be whatever, and he did not reply. But thankfully, I think because of the training of my practice and what we know from a neuroscientific point of view, the very fact that I'm aware of it means that I have sovereignty, right? I don't allow that to drive my responses, but I just tuck my anxieties aside and I look at what's objective and what is the appropriate response in that manner. So, you know, some people I could imagine, and I've had clients in my office who drive themselves into a frenzy and they could actually start communicating in a way that could sound affronting, that could sound accusatory, and that could then actually really derail people's relationships and an effective partnership going forward, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Yeah, because then it's a it's a lot of associations, and sometimes when Like, even for me at this point now, like if I get a text that's like, hey, Jordan, like we gotta figure this out or we gotta talk. And I don't even do it over text. I'm like, just let's hop on the phone and let's have a conversation because you're absolutely right. Like, there's no way to interpret, there's so much that's out there that you're like, I have my programming, you have your programming, I don't know what this programming is gonna lead to, but if we can get on a call, then we can actually get to the root cause of what is this micro moment that's causing you hesitation or causing you pause. Because you're absolutely right. Like, there's so many times, and especially for the audience, if someone doesn't reach out to you 30 minutes later, it's like, are they dead? Are something going on? Oh my God, I didn't realize they were on a plane, and on the plane, there's no Wi-Fi. And then by the time they landed, they actually didn't get the text. And it this stuff tends to happen all the time. I literally had a client where he talked to them, had a good agreement, had a good next step, and the next step was to send an email. He sends the email. I'm like, How long has it been? And he goes, It's been a week and a half. I go, What was the communication channel that you communicated on? And they were like, Facebook Messenger. I was like, So you communicated on Facebook Messenger and then sent an email for the first time, and they're like, Yes. And I go, Have you reached back out on Facebook Messenger? They're like, no. I'm like, do that because you know they at least look at that. He responds, he writes that the person responds in 30 minutes, I never saw your email. So when we do these things, we try to switch to profession professional or try to switch to like a more engaging way of helping people, but that's not always the best model because this person they don't need time to think about it. They just haven't had, they didn't even hear your first response. And how many times do we tell this story of I'm rushing them or this doesn't work out, or it's a challenge that we're all having? So, how do you guys think micro moments can shape relationships in in the business culture and relationships in general? Because that's kind of what we're talking about here. We're talking about how to think about having strong relationships, having strong business connections. Where do we miss the ball on that sometimes?

SPEAKER_04 24:17

Hmm. Actually, I have a very fresh case study to share, which is that without naming names or organizations, particular individual has decided that they would not like to stay in the company because they have a they they see they have a different view and a pretty strong view to which they perceive the CEO's way of running the company. And in this individual's mind, he feels that there is a value conflict. And you know, the the discussion that happened after that has prompted his resignation, and then a potentially contentious and hostile moment of agreeing on what the external communications would look like if they were to announce his departure, and he went into self-protection defensive mode and say, you know, I don't want to say anything other than we have a value conflict because otherwise people

Values Conflict And Reputation Spirals

SPEAKER_04 25:16

are gonna think that I couldn't do the job and then I was asked to go, right? But that was his own internal script and internal micro moments, thinking that you know, and and aversion or a polite and maybe rather vague account of why this person is no longer choosing to be part of the company uh is dishonest. Right? He's his his reading public relations speech as dishonesty, and they're like, hey, hey, hold on, dude, you are you seem to have a pretty strong trigger around truth and around honesty. But honestly speaking, such a pun pun not intended. If you were to go out and tell the world that you have a value conflict with the CEO, there's 50% chance that people are gonna think that the CEO is the one with the bad values, and there's 50% chance people are gonna think that you're the one with the mistaken values. Like so going with the moral high ground of like this values thing is not gonna be helping you or anyone, right? Why go there? Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

So he was just on that verge of potentially sabotaging his own, his own his own future, his own reputation, because he had this pretty emotional attachment to having to present the truth when it was a subjective truth, yes, right, and it was only from his perspective, not from the world, like you're looking at it from hey, when you present this, how is the world gonna see this and how are they gonna interpret it and what is their programming gonna say about you? And yeah, I mean you could say it's not a fit, but yeah, no, that's a very interesting point that you bring up there. Because we do that all the time, because we think our version is the best version and the only version that can work when there's many different ways to make things work. Andreas, what what do you think about this? What do you think about yeah?

SPEAKER_01 27:14

I will give you another example that just happened recently. So imagine right now all people thinking, not all, majority is thinking about AI. Yes, especially you are in the business. Sometimes you even made a weird decision that whether you need to go with AI or not. I just I just realized I'm in New York City right now that the producer of my favorite shoes, which is Alberts, yes, whether right?

SPEAKER_00 27:49

I saw that all birds, yeah, they switched to the AI and the country went to the correct, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:54

It's uh for me like what? A shoe company suddenly become an AI company. So right now it's a lot similar discussion. So I want to show you how micro moment happened because of the AI. Okay, yeah. So the most important question for you

AI Decisions And Curated Delusions

SPEAKER_01 28:13

to answer if you want to go to AI business or not, whether AI booming, right now we are in the AI booming, will continue or bust. That's a billion-dollar question, right? Correct? Yes. So again, back to our brain, it's actually not weather reporting, it's weather forecaster. It depends on how you engage with AI. And to your surprise, AI is actually depends on how you trigger the question, will end up with the story of AI booming will over soon. Yeah. Or the completely opposite, the AI booming will continue for quite some time. Imagine you're asking a question about business relationship, right? You and me, we are in the company, and suddenly we think, hmm, how about we go to AI business? So imagine just three hours, even though you already prepare everything for this discussion. Three hours you do your asking. Why I'm not asking AI? Some people have a tendency to ask AI always, some people just why not try? Okay, yeah. And suddenly you are end up with AI boom will over. On the other side, your partner AI boom will continue. You have a conflict already. Yeah. On the moment you make discussion, and it's not happened because you are not pre not have preparation, Jordan. It's because suddenly I'm assuming, just for the sake of discussion, you don't like AI so much, make us dumb. And you at the just three hours before the meeting, why I'm not giving a try. Yeah. And because of that, three hours before the meeting, what's supposed to be as a nice discussion that you will go into AI business and suddenly you disagree because AI is able to sabotage your mind and create a new hallucination that AI boom will over. I hope I make it clear.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah, because it gets us thinking about like what's actually happening, and because a lot of the software, social media, AI, all of it is catering to our internal thoughts and our internal stories of that fear that we have and that safety, then it just keeps showing up. And it's like, hey, I think AI is bad. If you keep telling ChatGBT or Claude or any of them that, hey, you're bad, you're not gonna use them, and they're also gonna cater to your response. So it starts to curate this for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

So what it actually happens is is that technology has enabled the perpetuation of our delusions at scale.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 31:09

So back to your question about business and leadership and organizations and cultures. I think one was one of the reasons that made me want to write this book is really the just simply the number of times I've had great, capable, really smart competent people come into my coaching studio and they weren't seeing the outcomes in their lives or their businesses matching their intentions. Like everybody's smart, right? And they have like, I want to build an empowering company culture where everybody feels like they have autonomy and they're creative and they're problem solvers, but they're like, but I'm I'm not seeing that, and I'm the CEO and I'm like just burnt out because like everything is bottlenecked, and me, I I want to go sit by the beach and have a tequila and have my company run, but it's not happening, right? So, why is there a departure between what we intend and what is actually manifested? Right? The difference that the thing that accounts for this difference is really the unconscious sabotages that's going on accumulated by so many micromoments and misdecisions that we weren't even aware of the stuff that goes on in the subconscious and in the invisible that we're just powerless to fight against. So the power of our intention is not good enough. Like you've got to know whether your mental programming is aligned with the direction of your intention.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Yeah. Absolutely. So so what are some of these micro moments, just to bring it to awareness for everyone, that almost everyone experiences on a very daily basis, but they probably never notice. They rarely notice them. What are some of the micro moments that come up for individuals, whether business or just a regular individual, and they just don't even realize that it's occurring?

SPEAKER_04 33:01

Right. So at least in the Asia context, we have a lot of people who work really, really hard. Right. And then they feel somewhat, maybe if you're not given that promotion, they feel somewhat underappreciated. Yes. Right. And then and then they're like, I'm working so hard, and then the year-end performance appraisal comes, and then people are telling me I'm not a great team player. They'll be like, What? Like, I'm busting my ass and I'm not being a great team player. And so this is very common because the dissatisfaction and just horrible feeling of feeling like nobody appreciates your value, nobody appreciates your effort, can really cripple a lot of people and it makes them feel awful about themselves, right? Um what's actually unconsciously happening is our work ethic or maybe our belief in hard work that drives us, that we believe is the formula to success, could be causing us to do so much

Hard Work Scripts And Delegation Traps

SPEAKER_04 33:59

and to micromanage so much that we're not giving space and allowing other people to lean in and to show their strengths.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

I I completely agree. The reason I'm smiling is because I literally was speaking with a client yesterday and he was telling me how he was like, I need to get good at sales, and I'm like, maybe, maybe, but like let's go out a decimal or two. Like let's go out a year, two years, like say you're running a huge business, see what happens, and like, are you gonna have salespeople? And they're like, Yeah. And I'm like, Are you gonna be doing the fulfillment? And they're like, I'm like, let's say it's a big business. Are you gonna be doing the fulfillment as well? And they're like, maybe, probably not. Like, it's gonna be more of the bigger picture stuff. So I'm like, theoretically, you don't have to do the sales, and theoretically, you don't have to do the fulfillment. It might be a good idea to maybe get some help on the sales if you're not that into sales. Like, but you're absolutely right, because we do have this preconceived notion that if I do it, I'm gonna do it the best, and the more I do, the better I'm gonna be. And it's like if you if you're giving your level of effort and it's a three, and someone comes in there and gives the level 10 effort, they're gonna start doing it so much better than you. Like, so, so much better than you. And yeah, you're absolutely right. Like that that preconceived notion of I have to do everything, I'm the best, I'm gonna make it happen, can be a real downfall for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 35:24

Yeah, and I've seen that happen across like small businesses, but it's like a sole proprietor, as well as leaders who are running departments, and you know, they've they've grown to their career, they've grown and advanced in their career because they've been reliable and they've created their jobs. But when they arrive at a position of leadership and they need to start delegating and start trusting others with autonomy so that you can get that magnitude instead of having just a scale of one, they're often not able to make that transition because of the unconscious programming that, you know, if I don't do it myself, it's not going to be great, or if I don't do it myself, something bad is gonna happen. And that's just driving them on a daily basis, compromising their performance, compromising their potential, and compromising the business results.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely a skill gap because and it's how they look at themselves and see themselves as well. So, Andreas, what do you think about this? What micro moments do you see everyone experiencing daily, but they rarely notice it themselves?

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Okay, allow me to recall our discussion before. You interview a lot of successful people, right? And I believe all your audience also want to be successful. Yes. So I actually, if I may say that if you want to be successful, it's quite simple, actually. You have to make the right decision all the time. Correct, right? If you follow all successful people, all of them at critical juncture always make the right decision. Yes. So this is my point. In our life, we make a million of decisions. Start off from very simple things where we want to eat today, if you go going lunch or dinner, right? Okay. What you we will take is very simple one. So this type of decision, you don't worry about micro moment. Just make a mistake to make this life colorful and fun. Okay. But imagine back to our decision. You you are the owner of the company and you will make a very important decision whether you will go to AI or not. Then you have to be aware, actually, all your preparation before all your experience will be useless. Because what happened to you is at the moment you make a decision, the micro moment can sabotage you simply with something happened just three hours before you make that decision. So back to my explanation example before, if you are keeping yourself like uh when it comes to important decision, I'm always using myself. I don't rely on AI. So if that three hours before that meeting, you are not touching AI, you are successful. And because you touch AI, you pick micro moment with your engagement with AI, and that's actually sealed your business to be failure. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

It's powerful.

SPEAKER_04 38:48

So in that in that example, what I would encourage everyone to think about is a business leader has always been trusting himself, right? And he's like, I've I've got all these considerations, I've done all the research. But somehow three hours ago, I just decided to go consult AI. What is the micro moment behind that decision to consult AI? Was it a moment of self-doubt? Like, was it a moment of doubting that hey, if I'm gonna consider adopting AI, then I should be also at least trying out AI. So he does something that is out of character, right? Because of a moment of doubt or of a moment of expectation, and that has the power to shift the entire trajectory of his decision.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

That's why, Jordan, we I told you before, all successful person, basically a lucky person. You know why? So back to that story again. So you you actually never consult AI, and for the sake of curiosity, you consult AI three hours before very important decision-making session with your partner. And actually, AI give you the right conclusion that AI booming will continue. Same thing with your partner, which has already done all the their homework in this area. So the meeting will be a successful meeting, and you create a new AI company and will be very successful. You see? Yeah. So that's why my point is because you don't know whether the micro moment that capture you actually a good one or a bad one, you always need to be aware when you make important decision making, that you start to realize, hmm, I'm not conscious at this moment. Okay, that's fine. I cannot change that. I need to deal with this weather reporter, okay. But you start to think whether my micro moment is correct one or not. That's a very important thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

So when there's a big decision coming up, it forces us to, and and this is why I I liked I like Doc how you explain the different levels of decisions. Like, there's what are we gonna wear today? What are we gonna do today? Who are we gonna eat today? Like, these are different levels of decisions versus should we adjust our business? Or even a normal one would be like, should I buy that car? Should I buy that real? Like, those are bigger decisions. And in those cases, you have to start asking yourself the better, like asking your questions of like, what mental story am I holding right now, or what what moment is holding me back, or what's limiting me, or what am I not seeing? Because you start to ask yourself these questions, you're gonna start to see the world completely different. And it might open up to we should do this or we shouldn't do this, Carrie?

SPEAKER_04 41:48

Yeah, actually, having this awareness that you're hallucinating is just the beginning, right? And what we actually offer in our book is really the technique for you to develop metacognition so you don't just catch yourself, but you have the power and you actually train to map out and be very clear how your mind tends to run the script and what exactly the script looks like when you're triggered by anxiety or when you're triggered by doubt, or when you're triggered by this is a high-risk decision. So I gotta be careful. When those signals come into your brain, do you know how your mind processes that and what is the usual script that it runs? Because if you don't know what is the script that it runs, then we don't know that it's actually holding power over us. But if we know the exact mechanics of what our script is made up of, then we can see that when we are performing the script, we can say, oops, this is my default pattern.

OPIJ And Learning To Observe

SPEAKER_04 42:46

It is, I'm not responding to the present reality and the present moment and the present opportunity based on the present data. Then that's when you could pause yourself and say, I'm not gonna run that old habit. I'm gonna do something different. I'm gonna do something different that is appropriate for this particular moment. And that's when we take our power back, and that's when we become conscious and intentional.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

I love it. And and the method is we we have abbreviation for that, O P I J. And this is very interesting thing that I want to tell you, Jordan. Oh, starting with observe, carry the master on this area, she will be able to prove just as simple to observe reality, we are not capable. She tried many times. If we if she throws you some question at this moment, perhaps you're also not able to observe the reality we face at this moment. So, how can you make a good decision at a critical juncture if you are not able to observe reality? It's the basic stuff, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:00

It's very challenging. It's very challenging when you really put it into thinking about it because we're trying to manage so many things and none of us want to believe because even to believe this, you have to go into the idea of like a lot of people in society are very much control, like they need all the control. So even to give up, hey, I don't make my own decisions, is like I don't know what you're talking about. I've been making them my whole life.

SPEAKER_04 44:24

It can be very confronting and it can be very scary. But for people who stay long enough to discover and they're curious enough to discover and they want to like not live life by fluke anymore, but to actually have mastery over their choices and their outcomes, then this is really, I think, the tool and what motivates me to share it with people via a book because it's it's actually so beautifully simple, but you just really need to practice. So if I were to ask you, Jordan, like make an observation right now about anything that you're seeing, like anything in your life right now.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

So what's an observation I see in my life?

SPEAKER_04 45:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

The first thing I thought when you said observation, I was just looking at the map behind you.

SPEAKER_04 45:06

At the what? At the map behind me? Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

The map behind you. I mean, an observation, I think. I mean, I was just when we met originally, I was actually in Colorado. So an observation for me is that I think when you travel, it it expands your mind to possibilities. There would be an observation.

SPEAKER_04 45:23

Okay, I'm gonna ask you, is that a fact or an opinion?

SPEAKER_00 45:29

That would be an opinion based on my experience, I think.

SPEAKER_04 45:33

Uh-huh. Okay, so what you've just said is you said a statement that you thought was an observation, but it was actually an opinion that's informed by your experience, which means it's subjective.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 45:46

But if you had said that I was in Colorado and I saw this mountain range and it was gray, and the clouds was over it, that would be an observation. But if you had said I was in Colorado and I saw this beautiful mountain range, that was so inspiring. That's not an observation, that's a perception.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

I think the reason I did that is because we've been having this high-level conversation is sort of zoom in on the exact wording. It's challenging. It's challenging, but it's it's you're absolutely right. You're bringing up a very real point that the more we focus on this and the more we think about this, we're gonna start to make different decisions. And that's why I think everyone should go check out this book. Andreas, before we end, I want you got you did part of the formula. It was observe. What was the four pieces or carry? It was observe.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

Observation, a perception, interpretation, I for interpretation, and J for judgment. So basically, this is this four-step process that every single human mind goes through in a split micro moment every day, millions of times a day. Observation, perception, interpretation, judgment. But what you don't see is that this is a process. What you get is you have a data point, and boom, straight away you form a judgment, and then you're acting on that judgment.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

I love that. I mean, it's so true. It's how many times have we done this where we just don't allow this to happen? So I I know our time's running out. We could probably go another two hours. Where can people learn more about you guys and really this micromoments book? And I'm gonna put it all in the show notes, but where can people learn more about it all?

SPEAKER_04 47:38

They can visit our website. It's at www.micromoments impl.com.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Amazing. Amazing. And I'll put that in the show notes. And yeah, guys, I would highly recommend going and checking this out. Because I mean, this is stuff that you're doing every single day. So why would you not want to take a step forward and analyze how you're making decisions? Because if you can make one decision slightly better, that can completely change the perspective and the direction of your life. So thank you guys. I appreciate you guys coming on. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Thank you, Jordan. Thank you, Jordan.