In The Huddle
The world of US college sport is both expansive and exciting, and international student-athletes are signing up in their droves for their shot at a scholarship opportunity.
In The Huddle is the creation of Study & Play USA, widely regarded as the GO TO experts in facilitating the best possible outcomes for all stakeholders in this industry: US college coaches and recruiters, local high schools, families of student-athletes and most importantly the student-athletes themselves.
So as you jog on the treadmill, drive to work, school or training, tune in to hear from industry leading experts, US college coaches, parents and student-athletes and learn how to best approach this pathway to maximise your opportunity and set yourself up for your most successful life.
In The Huddle
EP#54: Fuelling student-athletes for performance both at home and College with Sports Dietitian Lyss Koenan.
How do you balance athletics and academics while ensuring proper nutrition?
In this episode, Director Alexia Bates sits down with Sports Dietician Lyss Koenan to discuss nutritional choices for high school and college aged athletes. Alexia dives into questions for Lyss including new surroundings at college meaning unfamiliar American food and the new responsibilities college athletes have to make healthy choices. Lyss also touches on the importance of preparing food the night before for busy high school athletes and not overlooking a solid esky to bring to high school each day to set these athletes up for success.
Lyss also details the process of fuelling your body the day before, the day of and recovery after playing sport, as well as the importance of sleep in an athlete's performance. This episode also covers things for parents to consider when helping kids pack lunches. Lyss busts common myths around nutrition and covers topics like sports drinks not necessarily being suitable for young athletes. Wherever you are in the world, this is a great listen for high school/college aged athletes and parents!
In the Huddle was created to give student-athletes, parents and coaches an inside look at the journey through US college sport and all that comes with it the demands, the experiences, the excitement and the opportunities available to our student-athletes from around the world. Study and Play. Usa facilitates a comprehensive, customised approach for student-athletes and families for their whole journey, from their high school preparation years right through to US college graduation.
Speaker 2:Welcome to In the Huddle, pleased to have you all listening, and my name is Alexia Bates, one of the directors at Study and Play USA, and I can honestly say that I'm really excited for today's podcast because I know that I'm going to learn loads too. Podcast because I know that I'm going to learn loads too. Today, I have the privilege to chat and learn from Alyssa Liss-Conan. Liss is a practicing dietitian and sports dietitian who specializes in high performance sports nutrition, whilst consulting as a part of her own practice called Liss-Conan Performance Nutrition. She's also the sports dietitian for the Gold Coast Suns AFLW team as well as for QAS Sports. Having represented Australia many times herself as an elite athlete with Surf Lifesaving, liz is well-versed in the pressures and commitments involved in being a high-performing athlete, which is why she is so incredibly passionate about how athletes fuel their body for optimal performance. Welcome, liz.
Speaker 3:Thanks so much for having me, Alexia. I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 2:Awesome Before we get in. I have so many questions here to ask you and I'll talk to you soon about you know why I also not only just for athletes, but why I personally have such an interest in this space as well. But I wanted to share with our listeners how Lys and I actually met, because it wasn't that long ago where Chris and myself were a part of a part of the school sports Australia games at the Gold Coast and we were part of a panel that was speaking to parents of athletes there. So the athletes were off doing their thing and all the parents were in a room and there was a panel of us talking about different areas. On the panel was Rob Barty, so Ash's dad, talking about how to be the best sporting parent you can be, olympian Natalie Burton talking about athlete mindset, and then Liz talking about you know how to fuel your body as an athlete and as a parent, how we can support that.
Speaker 2:And honestly, liz, I could have listened to you for hours as a parent of an athlete. You know, chris and I came away from your talk armed with strategies to be able to help support our son and I don't think I let you get out of the foyer of that before you know. I cornered you and said would you be in the huddle? On In the Huddle, just because I knew if it resonated so much for Chris and I with a 15-year-old, it's going to absolutely resonate with the parents and the student-athletes who are listening to In the Huddle. So thank you so much for agreeing to be here.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you. It's so nice to actually hear you say that you got a lot from that talk, because the whole time, as you would know, we were struggling with a little bit of mic difficulties, so that was all that was on my mind for pretty much the entire talk. So I'm glad that it didn't come across like that. No, they didn't. I'm glad that it had an impact.
Speaker 2:It was fantastic and so practical, I think in your approach of you know how it just didn't seem too difficult, you know, or too complicated. And I think that's where I really resonated is that, particularly for a lot of the families that we're working with, you know both parents are working, you know multiple children, either high-level athletes, high-performing students. You know the juggle is real, you know. So to add another layer or guilt, I suppose sometimes in we should be doing all of this stuff and have you know and to not do it is tough. But I didn't get that from anything that you said. I felt that it was really practical and really doable for parents, so it was great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that that's such a big part of why I do what I do is that there are so many confusing and misleading messages out there in relation to nutrition, and it adds such a layer of complexity for so many people, including parents, especially of young children, who are wanting to optimize their performance in sport. So I think that, yeah, just trying to make it as simple as possible but also realistic is, I guess, one of the biggest pillars that I work from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome. And before we get stuck into, like I said, my list of questions that I have for you here, tell me a little bit of your background as an athlete yourself and what brought you to you. Know, you just touched on what your passion is within you know and why you're a dietitian, but what led you here as an athlete yourself?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I grew up on a small island off of Townsville in North Queensland and I've got three very competitive siblings, and so we grew up in a very yeah, I guess sporting household. I guess I've always been involved in a number of different sports. I was drawn mostly to swimming and surf, lifesaving, and I kind of went down that route in terms of competing for a couple of times on a couple of times. I was fortunate enough to compete for a few Australian teams overseas, so I got to travel a lot with that as well, which was amazing and and I'm so forever grateful for.
Speaker 3:And I think that having, I guess, that experience within elite sport and and knowing, I guess, when you are younger, that you're wanting to optimize I guess, all that experience within elite sport and knowing, I guess, when you are younger, that you're wanting to optimize, I guess, all of the different components that make up performance, and I think for me not necessarily having a big or a large understanding around how to fuel my body effectively when I was growing up and when I was competing, that's really what drove me to want to help other young athletes so that they can better understand how to get the most out of their performance in relation to their nutrition, and also, how can we allow families and parents to be able to help support their kids and help support young athletes in allowing them to achieve that as well? So, yeah, I think for me, my upbringing was very much so centred around sport and I guess that's probably what drove me to want to go down more of that sports nutrition pathway. And, yeah, ever since I have, I haven't looked back.
Speaker 2:Awesome, awesome, and you can. You know I've obviously heard you speak before and that passion just comes through. You can tell. It's natural that you know you've got a real keen interest in this, which is fantastic. The questions that I have today for you, liz, has actually came from the presentation, and when you opened it up to the parents at that presentation, some of the questions that they asked I thought were really good and really practical. So I'm actually starting.
Speaker 2:I want us to start on talking about some advice for parents of athletes out there, and a lot of families tell us that they listen to this podcast whilst they're driving to training, you know, and things like that. So it'll be good for the whole family, for you know, whole families to hear. But and this is something we experience in our household you know, four mornings a week, our son is either at the gym or at training 6am, and even on a weekend he is not a breakfast kid. I really struggle, and neither am I, so I don't blame him. I don't like to eat. It's not the first thing I like to do when my feet hit the floor in the morning, but I'm also not going straight to the gym and doing an hour and a half before I have to go to school and start my day Right. So what sort of fuel do growing athletes need first up in the morning and what are some tips that you have for parents who, like myself, might have a child that's not really interested in food first up?
Speaker 3:Yeah, if I had a dollar for every time I saw an athlete that came to me and they were going to training without anything in their stomach, I'd be a very wealthy dietitian. It's probably one of the most common, I guess, areas that we focus on to begin with, because it is one of those things that we really want to be optimising so that they can actually get the most not only out of their performance in that session, but also to help with their recovery after the session and then also to stabilise their blood sugars throughout the day as they go often straight from training to school, where they're going through six, seven, eight hours of learning so, and then potentially even an afternoon session after that. So what I always try and kind of educate on and start with is that let's start small and let's try and utilize the right macronutrient to have, which, in the case of if we're going into an early morning training session, will be carbohydrates. How can we try and, I guess, start small by including a small portion that's going to allow, I guess, their bodies to be able to better tolerate and better adapt and better perform in that training session. And so, when we're looking at carbohydrates, there's, I guess, different types of carbohydrates that we want to focus on when we're leading into an early morning training session.
Speaker 3:For those that can't tolerate a lot of food before training, we're going to be looking at more of those really simple, I guess more liquid forms of carbohydrates.
Speaker 3:And when we're starting off, instead of choosing more of, like your solid foods, it's often looking at okay, let's start with maybe looking at some liquids. So whether that's juice or if it's up and goes, or if it's a milk-based flavored milk drink, we just want to start with having a small portion, and even if we're starting with, let's say, half a cup, and then the following week we might look at incorporating more of a larger cup, and it's about training that gut so that it can better tolerate nutrition leading into a morning session, and so that's kind of where we would look at starting with. And I guess another way in which we can look at it is, instead of having, let's say, a handful of fresh grapes, we might look at adding in some sultanas, which is just a more concentrated form of carbohydrate. The volume's a lot less, so it's a lot more manageable for someone to be able to tolerate that a lot less.
Speaker 3:So it's a lot more manageable for someone to be able to tolerate that, let's say at five, five, 36 o'clock in the morning, when they're waking up, and then they're out the door straight away. And an analogy that I always use with my athletes is that when we walk into a gym, we're not always going to be able to squat a hundred kilos straight away. What we're going to do is we're going to progressively load up to that, and so our gut is a muscle, and so we've got to train our gut so that it can actually better tolerate that. So we're not going to start at what's optimal. I think what I always do is I work backwards and we start at step one and then we can build up Awesome.
Speaker 2:I love that and we've been trying this at home, so we've got like a V8 popper, you know, juice with that and we've started with that and it's stuck so far. So that is, it's working, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I guess once we get used to that, then maybe we can progress and try, let's say, some raisin toast or a piece of fruit toast, or we could look at having something like a muesli bar and oat bar, just so that we once again can continue to build that muscle up so that it can better tolerate that. And then once we get to more of an optimal and adequate amount of food to have before training, then that's when we can start to manipulate the types and the quantities.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Do you know, when we were speaking at the Gold Coast, a lot of the parents were swimmers parents of swimmers, I should say. And so that leads into what you just touched on, which was you know what happens if you have training in the morning school or day and then training in the afternoon, which I know you know for swimmers, but multiple sports you know not just swimming, that that's the case that you could be packing for 12 hours of what are some tips you have there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, get a really good esky and also plan out the night before what you're going to have throughout the day. So don't leave it till the morning when you're getting up and trying to get the kids out of the door at five o'clock in the morning, um, because once again it's going to end up being quite stressful for you and for the kids, um, and also you're probably going to forget things and it's going to be potentially a bit of a recipe for disaster when it comes to maybe not meeting their fueling requirements for throughout the day to help with their recovery, post-training and then their performance leading into that afternoon session as well. And I know that I harp on about performance in terms of what that looks like within the sporting arena, but it's also performance at school as well. And so if we're not adequately recovering from those morning sessions, our brain predominantly uses carbohydrates as its main fuel source. So if, when we're then potentially under fueling or, leading into that morning session, not getting an adequate recovery meal in afterwards and then going straight into school, we're not setting ourselves up for the best day that we can to, I guess, achieve not only those performance goals but also, I guess, allowing our brain to function and for us to have, I guess, adequate cognition throughout the day.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I guess, going back to your question, making sure, planning the night before and doing a little bit of meal prep as well so I'm sure we'll probably get into a little bit more around what that might look like from a recovery nutrition perspective. But just having a little bit of forward thought around, what are we actually going to be having for that breakfast meal, post-training? And then how can we kind of, I guess, make sure that we're maximising our fuelling at both morning tea and lunch and then ensuring that we're still allowing ourselves to have a snack in the afternoon before that afternoon session as well? So it's just about making sure that we're still allowing ourselves to have a snack in the afternoon before that afternoon session as well. So it's just about making sure that we're getting both the quantity of food in, but also making sure that we're getting the timing right in and around those sessions too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I keep referencing back to things that we're doing in our household now, because all of these things have actually come from listening to you. So I think it, um, whether it's helpful or not for me to share, I'm going to do it anyway. But what we've started doing is try not to plan anything on a Sunday afternoon for us, um, to be able to whether it's shopping, meal prepping, you know, just those types of things. I know that if we haven't done that on a Sunday, you know the week will be hell on wheels. You know, trying to, yeah, get on top of it again at that stage. So even getting the first couple of days of the week sorted is just, yeah. I think also, everyone's calmer too. Yeah, if you think of it from that point of view. But everyone's organized and calm, um, but yeah, you're not getting up at 5 am and thinking, oh goodness, what am I going to fill this esky with?
Speaker 3:yeah, and I think it can be also a really good education tool, um to incorporate and involve the kids in as well, um, and the athletes in, and so what I often recommend is getting a planner to put on the fridge and using that, like what you said, on a Sunday afternoon, and planning out what you're having for your meals, your snacks, your breakfast, your lunches, and then, as I said, getting the kids involved in that and then putting that on the fridge so that they actually know what's coming up as well, and then they can be involved and start to learn some of the the different things that they're they're needing to around nutrition to best support their performance, because, at the end of the day, they're not going to be living at home forever and you want to be setting up those habits and building those habits early, because it'll make their lives a lot easier when they transition out of the household too yeah, and that's perfect for our student athletes who are going into the college environment is that, yeah, they are going to have to be.
Speaker 2:You know, the universities obviously play a role in it, but there's an element of they have to take responsibility for that once they become a college athlete. So starting that in high school, I think anything that they can do to make that transition easier is just incredibly valuable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Last question around advice for parents before we move to the athletes themselves. But at the beginning you said I asked you a question. You said if I had a dollar for every time I'd heard that. So tell me what are some of the biggest myths that you bust in your role for parents? That they will come to you and say that they're doing something or say that they've been told something and you've had to set that straight. What are the common ones, the most common ones that you see?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So one of the probably the biggest ones is that avoiding simple carbohydrates or avoiding processed foods. Now, I'm a big believer with my practice and the way in which I kind of educate around nutrition is that there's no good and bad, there's no healthy and unhealthy. I try and look at food as being very neutral. I guess when we're looking and this is another analogy, because there's so many analogies in my practice but I guess if we go into a candy store or a lolly store and we've got, say, our kids in there and we tell them that they're not allowed to have anything, they're going to go crazy, okay, and when we get told that we can't have things, it makes us want them more. So I think if we can try and rather shift that focus to what we need to include, to help with, I guess, fueling our bodies appropriately and in understanding that there's a place for all different types of foods within our diet and that processed foods, or those foods that are potentially more simple or easy to digest, when we're looking at it in form of carbohydrate, they absolutely have their time and place within an athlete's diet, and so, to give you a bit of an example of what some of those foods might be.
Speaker 3:We're looking at things that are often demonized in society, so it might be things like LCM bars or other cereal bars or muesli bars, or it could be things like popcorn or pretzels or things that potentially might be seen as being too high in sugar. But when we're looking at those foods, they play a really important role in the lead up to exercise, when our bodies are actually requiring more carbohydrates, and more simple carbohydrates, because what happens when we exercise is that blood's diverted away from our gastrointestinal tract and it's diverted to our working muscles. And here is where our body is going to better use and better absorb those simple sugars, as opposed to if we were to get them or give them more complex carbohydrates. So things more like starchy vegetables or whole grains, which are great within our main meals, but they just take a little bit longer for our bodies to break down and digest. So incorporating them in the lead up to a training session or in and around exercise, it's not going to be the most beneficial option, because our gut's just going to really struggle to be able to tolerate that and we might find that we run into some gastrointestinal issues, which obviously is going to impact on our performance.
Speaker 3:So that would probably be one of the biggest, I guess, myths that I would probably see within a lot of my athletes and particularly a lot of my parents, um of athletes, and it comes from a place of love and it comes from a place of them wanting to do their best. And it's often because, once again, it goes back to what we're probably shown within the media and what we're um educated around, but once again, it it's about making sure that we're understanding the timing um and the placement of those foods and, yeah, they're probably not going to be the best options to incorporate at breakfast, potentially, or at lunch, a really great source of food that we want to be making sure that we are having, because, once again, they're just going to help with optimising that performance outcome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome, and I think to your point. You just see so much stuff on social media, you see so much stuff in just media in general, and it's just so hard to know what agenda is being pushed, what is marketing, what is real, and so it's just awesome just to be able to cut through that. Yeah, you know, yeah, and it plays into guilt as well. You know, as you were saying about that, coming from a place of care and love, it's that you think that it should only be. Well, you know, as you were saying about that, coming from a, a place of care and love, it's that you, you think that it should only be. You know, brown rice, vegetables, lean protein, you know, and all this other stuff that comes in a packet is just a hard no. So I think that's. That's a great perspective. To look at it from a more realistic one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think it also takes away that guilt from that you're just going almost for the convenience option, when it's not always the case. And by all means, I think that when we are looking at those main meals yes, and we'll probably get into this in a little bit in terms of what we want to include within those meals and snacks at, let's say, first break, when we're not necessarily gearing up to get into a training session, is that we do want to include more of those complex grains and those complex carbohydrates, those lean proteins, lots of fruits and vegetables and things like that. But yeah, in and around those training sessions, that's when we're going to need that energy to be accessed and used throughout the session. So choosing more simple, quick-acting, easy-to to digest carbohydrates is what's going to be the most beneficial yeah, excellent.
Speaker 2:Um, well, I'm going to move now to talking about the athletes themselves. Okay, um, and I think we're with study and play usa. Obviously, our student athletes are shifting away from being at home with mum and dad having everything provided to them, moving into the US college space and as a part of their college experience they're living on campus. Food is provided, particularly in that first year. It's cafeteria type food and then, depending on where they are in the US, also has a big impact on the type of food that's available to them.
Speaker 2:You know, different states in America can just be like different countries. You know it's that diverse and different in what they offer and, particularly in the next month, what we hear a lot of because we have our freshmen all starting, you know, in August, you know early September of every year, and we're regularly checking in with them and the feedback almost in everyone's response back to us at some point in it is oh, the food's so different, you know, and it's a big adjustment. So I'd love you to touch on what our athletes can do. What can they control? How can they make the best choices that they can when there are things so much that is out of their control from a food perspective in college life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think where I want to start with this question because it is such a big question and it's something that I work with a lot of my athletes on, whether it's in college or if they're just moving out of home is that we want to look at the fundamentals and the basics and the knowledge around nutrition for those athletes so that they can best set themselves up for when they're going into those environments and they're having to, I guess, choose the right types of foods that are going to benefit them and their performance.
Speaker 3:So I guess the biggest thing that I always educate on to begin with and I once again going back to another analogy is a cupcake analogy. So when we're looking at the base mixture or the base of the cupcake, I like to think of that as your energy, your macronutrients and your micronutrients. So that's where we always want to start with. The icing on top is often what we would look at as being like more around the timing and the frequency and the amounts of those foods, and then the sprinkles are what we would call as being like your supplements. So those, I guess, little one percenters that we can do um, which, once again, if we don't have the base mixture right first.
Speaker 3:They're not going to make much of a difference and we're not going to put sprinkles on on a plate so what we start off with when we're looking at that, going back to what that consists of, is that that energy, those macronutrients and, in particular, carbohydrates, protein and fats, and how we need to position them within our meals and within our day-to-day eating. And when we're talking about creating plates within an eating environment such as like a cafeteria, is that we want to go back to what are carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are going to be especially at those main meals. We want to focus on whole grain carbohydrates, so things like your brown rice, quinoa, couscous, starchy vegetables so potato, sweet potato, whole grain breads or cereals, oats, those things that are and even fruits, for example, there are what we want to fill with. Around about a third of our plate is normally what I would recommend for a lot of my athletes. So a third of our plate should be coming from those quality carbohydrates. Give or take some, depending on what the athlete's goals are whether they have low energy requirements or whether we're preparing for something like a competition. We might reduce or increase that, but a good guide I often recommend is about a third of our plate coming from those carbohydrates. Now, those are going to help to fuel our bodies, so our body's preferential source of fuel is carbohydrates, and that's for both muscles and for our brain as well. They're also a really good source of fiber dietary fiber, which is really important for our gut health as well, and making sure that we're keeping regular, too, with our bowel movements.
Speaker 3:Then what we have is we've got protein. So, as a lot of people probably know, protein is important for muscles, but it's also important for repairing and rebuilding tissue too. So when we're talking about those protein sources, as an athlete and as an everyday individual, we want to be choosing lean sources where possible. So we want to try and be using things like your chicken breast or trimmed meat, so we're not trying to choose the ones that have lots of fat on them.
Speaker 3:Lean mince is a really good way in which we can reduce the fat content of mince products, even things like your dairy products so greek yogurt's a really good one. Your milk, your cheese, is a good source of protein. Um, your more vegetarian or vegan based options, so that's going to be things like your soy based products, so tofu or firm tofu, tempeh, edamame beans or soybeans, legumes and lentils, and then you've got eggs and and fish and seafood as well. So they're, I guess, more of our common sources of protein and when we look at that plate we want to be covering. I normally use about a palm size portion when I'm educating athletes around.
Speaker 3:What that would look like or it might look like a third of that plate is what we want to try and incorporate with one of those sources of lean protein, then what we do is we fill the rest of our plate with colorful vegetables and and salads.
Speaker 3:So when we're looking at this, we're looking at things like zucchini, capsicum, broccoli, any other fresh, like garden or Greek salads, and we want to try and include a variety when we're looking at our vegetables and our salads.
Speaker 3:And when I say a variety, it's a variety in terms of the types of vegetables, but also a variety in terms of the colours, because we're going to get different micronutrients, antioxidants, polyphenols in a wide range of different colored fruits and vegetables. And so when we're walking into somewhere like a new environment, whether that's a buffet or a banquet style, or if it's a cafeteria style room, which might not necessarily be familiar if we can come back to the principles of what we want to try and incorporate and the different types of foods that we want to manipulate on our plate, I think that that can really help athletes to be guided as to where they go, as to not becoming super overwhelmed when they walk into an environment where there's lots of new foods for them to try. And I just say, you know, if we are trialing new foods. It might be that we trial something once in one sitting, but we're potentially then maybe trialing something else in the following, so we're not trialing all of the new things at once.
Speaker 3:And we're just and we're sticking to, I guess, the basics, which is those carbs, protein and colour, and then just making sure that we're choosing those forms of foods in more of their simple or whole forms. So try to avoid a lot of like the fried products and try and choose more of like your baked to your grilled steamed. They're all going to be much lower in saturated fat, which is once again just going to help from a performance and recovery point of view.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great advice, and I think everything is so new to our student-athletes everything They've never lived away from home before. Typically, you know everything is new. So to be able to have some really tangible advice on that, I think, is going to help them enormously. Just, it's the overwhelm right, you said that, it's just the overwhelm of what they're used to, then having to make their own judgments on how they can best align that when they arrive. So yeah, that's excellent, I think. Another question I have is we talk a lot about what to do before training and in preparation for training. Is there anything that should be done after training? You know, from a nutrition point of view, because I might sound really naive here, but I don't hear that talked about a lot. I hear about the before training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. What should our athletes know about after they finish competing or finish a training session?
Speaker 3:Yeah, great question and I think it's also important. I probably didn't touch on this very well before, but in the lead up to a training session, and especially if it's in the afternoon, I always say try and position that pre-training meal around three to four hours before a session. So let's say, for example, we're training at four o'clock, we're probably going to look at having that lunch meal around one. Then what we're looking at is probably having another pre-training snack, which is what we touched on when we're talking about something like the rice cakes, for example, or pretzels or something like a banana or some sultanas or something that's more of a quick acting carb 30 to 60 minutes out for some high energy athletes. We might incorporate even another afternoon snack in there if needed. So it just depends on the athlete and what their energy requirements and needs are. And then what we're looking at post-training. So a large focus obviously in the lead up to training is on carbohydrate, but post-training, a lot of the time I hear is that it's just protein, protein, protein, and you see, the first thing that people do when they walk out of the gym is have a protein shake. Now, don't get me wrong, protein is important post training, but what we're looking at and I often use a bit of a ratio when we're talking about this is that we want to look at incorporating a source of carbohydrates, too, to help with refueling and replenishing our liver and muscle glycogen stores, which are often depleted during a training session. Going back to another analogy is that when we're in the car and we've got our petrol tank, often what happens if we go for a long drive, that petrol tank is going to deplete, and I often refer to carbohydrates as being like the unleaded or diesel petrol that you put in your car. So what we need to do in order to function or fuel that car efficiently and to make sure that it's running efficiently for our next trip, is that we have to refuel that tank. So, yes, we do need protein to help with repairing and resynthesising our muscles and our broken down muscle fibres, but we also need carbohydrates to help with fuelling that process and we need carbohydrates to help with refing that process and we need carbohydrates to help with refueling our stores that we've just depleted during a session.
Speaker 3:Now I like to refer to an analogy called the five r's to recovery nutrition. So the five r's to recovery nutrition are refuel with carbohydrates, repair with protein rehydrate, with nourishing fluids to replace any of those electrolytes and, I guess, fluid losses that we've lost during the session. We also want to look at reducing inflammation with healthy fats, and so that's going to be things like your avocado, feta, nuts and seeds, extra virgin olive oil, oily fish so salmon, tuna, mackerel, trout, oily fish so salmon, tuna, mackerel, trout, pesto, hummus, things like that. And then the last R is replenish micronutrients, so that's going to be through your fruits and vegetables predominantly. So that's what I would like to classify as being our five R's to our recovery nutrition.
Speaker 3:And when we're talking about recovery nutrition, if we are neglecting or if we're not potentially putting a focus on that, we know that it can potentially increase our risk for injury or illness. It can dampen our response and adaptations to training. It also just increases our risk for injury in general and it doesn't allow us to optimize recovery and it might increase our soreness or our DOMS, which is delayed onset, muscle soreness post-session, if we're not refueling properly. And in terms of whether we want to include a, this is a common question that I often get asked is should we include a recovery snack or should we just go straight to our meal and, like a lot of things in nutrition, it depends.
Speaker 3:And so when we're talking about when we would include a recovery snack for athletes that have another training session within eight hours. So let's say, for example, we've got a swimmer and they're swimming in the morning and then they've got another training session that afternoon, then our recovery window becomes a little bit more important and we want to try and incorporate a recovery meal or snack within 30 to 45 minutes of finishing that session. And that's coming mostly from a refueling perspective and the shortened window that we have to refuel. So if that's the case, if we can't get our recovery meal within that 30 to 45 minutes, then we want to incorporate a recovery snack that has a little bit of carbs and a little bit of protein. Then when we follow up with that recovery meal, that's where we can add the healthy fat and the fruit and veg as well.
Speaker 2:Awesome. I honestly had no idea. I knew that there would be something. Of course there's something you know post-training that you have to do, but it just never seems to be the focus in anything. You know, and you're right.
Speaker 3:You see people walking around with protein shakes after a gym session or after whatever it is, and, yeah, you don't see much else, and I think that goes back to as well with the supplement side of things is that, as a dietician, I'm always advocating for food first as well, so we don't need to go straight to a protein shake like what's wrong with a good old, I guess like fruit smoothie, or if we would look at having something like a chocolate milk okay, that's got carbs, protein and fluids um, in australia we've got really good options where you've got things like your rokeby farm smoothies or your up and go energizers or good sport drinks, which are really good recovery drink options to have as snacks if you're trying to buy a little bit of time before your main meal.
Speaker 3:Another really common one that I often have athletes have, if they do need a snack before they go into their meal, if they say, for example, can't get that main meal within the 30 to 45 minutes is having something like a little yogurt pouch and a piece of fruit, um, or even something like a carmen's protein bar, um, and we might incorporate that with, let's say, like a once again a piece of fruit, or we could look at having that with something like a small banana muffin. So we're just getting a little bit of protein and a little bit of carbohydrate just to help with tying them over until they next have that main meal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome One thing that you, in the session that you did at the Gold Coast, you mentioned like was it roasted edamame?
Speaker 3:Yeah, roasted edamame beans are a really good source of protein too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so we've got them. So that's one thing that we've added in and it's actually been approved in our household, which I did not expect. So that's one thing that we've added in and it's actually been approved in our household which I did not expect.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's been good, that's been a really good addition. Um, this is just something that I thought of listen when you were talking about the, the five r's to recovery, and one of them was about, you know, fluid. And what I would like to know and I'm interested in is if you know you've got a big day of sport on a Saturday, okay, so again, that's normal in our household, okay, there's tennis and cricket on a Saturday, and so it's hours and hours. So if I look at tomorrow, we're in Brisbane, they're saying it's going to be 34 degrees and we haven't, you know, even hit summer yet. What should an athlete be doing the day before? Because my understanding is it's not just what you do on the day about hydration, it's the day before, because my understanding is it's not just what you do on the day about hydration, it's the day before, in particular. Um, and then also talk me through your thoughts on sports drinks on the day, you know. So your gatorades parades, um, hydrolytes, you know, all of those things. I'd love to hear your thoughts, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and once again, within the field of sports nutrition, unfortunately it depends, and it depends on the athlete, their age, the performance and, I guess, the level of performance that they are competing at. But I'll go to start off with that question is that what to do the day before? So, when we are looking at the day before, like what you, you said, I always say, preparation for anything, especially for sports, school sports in particular starts at least 24 hours before the actual event starts. And so often what we have when we do, um, lead into an event, is that we often are feeling a little bit stressed and anxious, which can impact on our body's ability to be able to tolerate foods in and around exercise or, I guess, events in which we might feel a little bit nervous for. So that also then increases, I guess, the benefits of making sure that we are adding in that preparation well and truly, hours, hours out from when we're actually needing to race, compete, play whatever it is, hours out from when we're actually needing to race, compete, play whatever it is. And so, the day before, what I always like to incorporate is making sure that you are fueling and carrying a drink bottle with you wherever you go. Sipping over sculling is going to help with the absorption of those fluids, and whenever you're having a meal, incorporating a glass of fluid in with that, whether that's water, milk or any kind of other fluid because when we eat, we consume electrolytes through the foods that we eat and we also consume, obviously, carbohydrates. Now, if we have one gram of carbohydrate, that's going to hold on to around three grams of water, so the absorption is is, I guess, amplified and increased when we consume food alongside fluids, and so that's something that I often encourage athletes to do in the lead up is that making sure that we're sipping across the day and that we are getting in those, I guess, drinks when we are eating.
Speaker 3:The other thing from a food perspective that I often say is that you've probably heard of things like carb loading, which you don't necessarily need to do unless you're engaging exercises that's continuous for over 75, over 90 minutes. So often you hear that in things like half marathons and marathons for general sport, you don't necessarily need to do a carb load as such, but I think it is a good idea to make sure that you are including a source of carbohydrates in those three main meals. So when we're going back to that plate model, making sure that we're probably getting at least a third of a plate coming from those carbohydrates at three main meals across the day before. And then I always say add in a bit of a bakery, stop. The day before you have a big day the following, whether that's cricket, tennis, swimming, carnival, surf, life saving, you know, basketball, footy, whatever it is. Um, and when I say a bakery stop, often kids like eyes, light up. Yeah, and it doesn't necessarily mean things like a croissant or a meat pie or a sausage roll, because they're often high in more fat. We want to choose ones that are going to be higher in carbohydrate. So often what I would go for is something like banana bread or a blueberry muffin, or or we might have something like a Vegemite scroll, so something that's going to be more carbohydrate based, that's lower in fat, but it's just going to give you that little bit of extra carbohydrates that you probably don't get on a normal day to day, which will just help to once again top up those liver and muscle glycogen stores leading into the following day and muscle glycogen stores leading into the following day. Once again, in the following day we might not be able to eat as much, just because we do have those nerves and we might not be feeling as well in our gut to be able to tolerate a higher amount of carbohydrates. So I guess that's what we're looking at the day before, and I think it's also important to mention that sleep is really important the day before as well, and I think not only the night before but but in the nights leading up to it, because once again that night before we might be a little bit anxious or nervous going to bed. So just making sure that in the nights leading into it that we're just getting into a really good bedtime routine and making sure that we're giving ourselves enough time to wind down too.
Speaker 3:And then going on to your second question. So around electrolytes, hydration, et cetera. And then going on to your second question, so around electrolytes, hydration, et cetera and sports drinks. So mostly for adolescent athletes I wouldn't recommend sports drinks as such. So things like Gatorade and Powerade often throughout training and things like that there's the exception of if athletes are performing at a higher level and really struggle to get food based options down, then we might look at incorporating some of those. The reason being is that for developing children and adolescents that the enamel on your teeth is quite sensitive and so with sports drinks and the high sugar drinks, is that it can actually damage that enamel on your teeth.
Speaker 3:So when we're looking at things like your sports drinks, ideally they're not necessarily the first line choice that we would look for and rather we would try and refuel and top up those carbohydrate stores through carbohydrate foods, whether that's fruit straps, dried fruit fresh fruit is another really good one and even fruit juice, I guess to a degree.
Speaker 3:Obviously it's still going to have that sugar component, but if we are incorporating those sports drinks or that fruit juice, we're always making sure that we're having some water to wash it down and just rinse our mouth out so that we're not leaving any of that um sugar which can cause dental decay, um.
Speaker 3:So I guess as we progress, as we get older um, and as we get to those higher levels of sport, then absolutely we're looking at incorporating or possibly incorporating some of more of those sports based drinks for those athletes. And that's just because, once again, it's a really easy way in which we can manage to get some extra carbohydrates in at a low gastrointestinal risk or cost to our gastrointestinal tract, so it's not going to cause a lot of upset cost to our gastrointestinal tract. So it's not going to cause a lot of upset, um, but once again, I think we can still achieve that within those younger levels of sport, um, through things like and another good one is things like your apricot bites or your smooshed balls are really good options, oh yeah which are all dried fruit products, um which, once again, you can get your carbohydrates in without necessarily damaging your teeth yeah, so I.
Speaker 2:So I smirked before when you were saying about you know, having mixing, having lots of water when you have, you know, a Gatorade or a Powerade. And I love that we've got that recorded and it's really just for proof for our son, to be honest, where Chris has always said to him mix your Gatorade with water. If you're going to have one, mix it with water. It's too much and I want you to sip on it. It doesn't get listened to because, hello, parents. But yeah, it's actually nice to have that recorded. So I look forward to sharing that in our household that we actually might know something about something. And the other thing that I smirked at is about the carb loading. So I do park run 5K every Saturday morning so I now can't have my mountain of pasta the night before because in my mind, oh well, I'm doing park run. I don't think 30 minutes really cuts it for the required carb loading that I do.
Speaker 3:So you know there's pros and cons to this. I mean, you can still have your pasta I don't want to rock any boats but just from an energy perspective and a carbohydrate perspective, I think that sometimes that I think it can become a little bit misleading, and we think that you know we need to have this massive amount of food the night before, and it's just about rearranging the portions on that plate and you might still choose to incorporate a slightly larger portion than what you would on a normal day, because you are going to be expending that energy to a degree and it's going to benefit your performance, performance. So I think that positioning that on a night that's before a run can be really beneficial too, um, because not only will it give you energy but, placebo effect, it might just allow you to get into that routine where you know that you've got a park run the next day, um, and and it's nice something to look forward to at the end of the week yeah, true, true, um, I can't thank you enough, Liss.
Speaker 2:I've really, you know, selfishly, personally, I've really really enjoyed this podcast and speaking with you. I think it is incredibly valuable the advice that you've given, practical, real, you know, not out of reach for most to be able to incorporate some or all of that into their family life, but also perfect timing for our student athletes to hear who have just embarked on their college career. So this will be timed very well, I think, which is fantastic Now. Very well, I think, which is fantastic Now for this podcast, we'll have your details to your practice, you know. If any of our families or student athletes would like to reach out to you, they're okay to do that.
Speaker 3:Absolutely yes, and thank you so much for having me, alexia. I love coming on and sharing some insight into this topic, but I offer private consults on my online platform, so, wherever you are in the world, I can organize a time and, yeah, I will send you through my details. But I've got a website and more than happy for people to reach out and get in contact and we can go from there.
Speaker 2:Awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, thank you, liz, really appreciate great to see you again and, and hopefully you know, we'll be able to get you on the podcast again in a little. You know a little while you know to talk about maybe some different topics to be able to help our student athletes. So, yeah, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 3:Thanks so much, Alexia.